Added: 3 years ago
From: VioleTAK
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  • Are you joking? if zerg goes 12 hatch at exp, I might as well check him with my zealots, nevermind 3 hatch before pool, which is best countered with first few zealots

  • Star craft 2 Serious Shit

  • "How many Zerglings a Zealot can kill"

    If you need to take a class to figure that out then just please stop playing :)

  • @gotriceandshrimp it takes 3 hits (16+16+16) for Zealot to kill zergling (35), o 2 hit when you have +1 attack(18+18). however, if you take probe along with 2 zealots, you can kill lot more lings, as it deals 5 dmg, so you save 33% of zealot hits. So, how many lings 2 zealot can kill? how many lings 2 zealot and a probe can kill?

  • @ashardman Nonsensical. My probes would be mining and my Zealots wouldn't be out on the map going Zergling hunting. If such a scenario would pop up I doubt a Probe would make a difference since more then likely you would of been swarmed instantly by Zerglings. Cost for cost Zerglings beat Zealots in low numbers since proper micro can result on no losses on Zerg side.

  • @gotriceandshrimp Oh, so you are "No fighting until you have 24 carriers" guy...

  • @fight8001 More like no fighting until I can move out without getting swarming by Zerglings. No Protoss in their right minds would move out against Zerg with two Zealots and a Probe 5 minutes into the game.

  • this is all irrelevant. A Korean gamer can input a thousand commands per-second his teaching is invalid. I swear south korea is making super soldier starcraft players

  • The guy asking "why did he have only 1 gateway"

    Clearly a D- player =P

  • after I destroy noobs I send them a link to this page

  • why cant real school be like this?... -_-'

  • Where is lecture 2??????????

    

  • i call these people awesome, rednecks call them nerds...

  • faf

  • looks like the guy is teaching protoss language

  • wow.... that is tight..

  • i suck at math but this makes so much more sense! if only i known about this in highschool i wouldve done so much more better !

  • I don't think I'll be able to get an A in this class... and I'm Korean, shame on me.

  • Have any pro players come out of this program?

  • @Error081688 probably not, this class sounds like a joke, i could laugh whole way through this lecture and not knowing shit. cuz when encountering a progamer especially like those in china and B level korea, you are going to encounter cheese, gonn mash what this professor teaches.

  • Students thought they would get to play a lot of sc, but instead they got math practice.

  • my head hurts

  • So this is why the EECS majors at Berk love Starcraft...

  • Where is lecture 2?

  • @RyanJRA64Abella i asked the same question, lol. I think it's something like take the class? lol.

  • @MrLinder theres math in starcraft. u need 2 know that 50 minerals wont get u a zealot o.O

  • It this a starcraft or math?

  • @MrLinder yes.

  • @MrLinder They should get a life!

  • 15:32 colossy?!?!?!?!

  • lol i would be playing starcraft in that classroom instead of listening xD

  • Such an insidious way of slipping medicine into ice cream, this.

  • seriously? Do pro gamers use these complex mathematical formulas in-game? "Okay, he's got 5 'rines, three' rauders and a tank, so... hold on..... Esub1 times H0A6, ummm.... carry the 3... So i need 8 hydras and 4 lings... Dammit, now he has more units!!! GG."

  • @CueBaudcot I agree that probably not every little detail is important. But the fact is that this stuff was figured out by someone and because of it, the progamers eked out just a tiny bit more of efficiency (and lets face it, at the progaming level, even the smallest iota of improvement means the world of difference, cuz they have shit down to a science :P). So I'd say, this is legit imo lol

  • @CueBaudcot Not exactly but constant practice takes this from purely mathematical terms to become instinctive. It's what most call 'game sense' and is similar to other sports. A professional can through one glance of your base deduce you don't have what you should have at that particular time down to the last mineral, that something is off. Perhaps you went for a proxy, so then they'd scout the most logical position.

  • @CueBaudcot rofl

  • i didnt know starcraft was so technical lol. i wish i was that good

  • zumbaprincessbaby!!! if you see this add me to mzn!! luscious05 at hawtmail dot com!

  • This is hilarious.

  • @PumaM12LRV Well Flash would own him straight away

  • This is impressive, though I don't understand it.

  • that is the gayest shit I have seen

  • @simpackedangelking I understand its a game theory course, but iam just saying, doing mathematics, and coming up with theories, wont win you a game of starcraft. Who gives a flying fuck about how mathematics applies to sc, really. Super gay.

  • @greenjack7922 people who play it for money?

  • You know, instead of going to fucking college for an RTS game, you could just play it, and learn naturally like most people.

  • @greenjack7922 it's a Game Theory course. Game Theory is a branch of applied mathematics, and they're teaching how it applies to StarCraft, not how to play StarCraft.

  • This is a class on GAME THEORY, which is basically the process of figuring out what someone else is thinking based upon what you think, they think, you are thinking, which starcraft makes an excellent example of, and makes for an interesting class rather than just another math class.

  • It's really weird, even as a SC, SC2, WC3 fan, to hear somebody in a suit, a pen in his right hand and a notepad in his left saying "cause 1 zealot can kill 3 zerglings".

  • where are the lectures in the middle?

  • This is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever seen.

  • Interesting subject, but the lecturer sounds like a self-important idiot.

  • are pro korean players really thinking this as they're playing?

  • @misteraznboy Yes, but they don't calculate it like the lecturer does. The pro gamers practices so munch that they learn this stuff through repetition and they operate on instincts. They kind of do these calculations but they are somewhat unaware of it.

  • that looks like the most awesome class ever!

  • Lol. Starcraft is hardly that simple. There are many things such as terrain and micromanagement to consider. For instance, it takes more zerglings to try and push through a zealot probe block that is on a ramp than just zealots and probes in open field. Also, some figures just simply can't be constants, such as psionic storm and neglects the bonuses gifted by abilities such as irradiate, dark swarm, plague, and other abilities. Although the math is interesting, it simply is not realistic.

  • well it IS a college course the guy had to make it somewhat hard for it to be eligible to teach.

  • Yes but he's making it simple first

    It is realistic, just it gets increasingly more complicated, you start at the start.

  • 8:47 LOL

    "cuz we can probably solve it with tensors... but that is beyond the math of the undergraduates"

  • lol is all that math / matrices n vectors necessary?

    y not just say 3 ling=zealot?

  • they have to talk about the math of it or the university would never have agreed to let the class exist. there has to be an educational purpose of some kind

  • btw, that suit is too big for u, get one that is ure size.

  • @penpen0109 its not to teach how to play a game or shit like that it is for more complicated game that takes months to years of practice before you become realy good

  • and also its not like gta were you can hit all of the bottuns on the controller and in 10 seconds know how the game works...i have gta this is how it works you kill people you steal cars in chinatown wars you sell and buy durgs yeah thats really complicated... name one thing about gta that is complicated excepte the phisics of it example if you dont know what i just said... when a motorcycle hits a car and its going 100mph and the guy falls off

  • yea there will be a wow class. for lulz

  • hahahaha

  • Best lecture I've ever had!

  • Watch the first lecture, and you'll hear him talk about how the class isn't about improving your game but understanding the dynamics of the system through mathematical analysis.

  • you know it's funny how ridiculous this seems, but these kids get payed a shit load if they are the best at this game.

  • how to extract linear algebra from video games. compelling stuff.

  • U have to beat the teacher in a game to get good notes ?o.O

  • Is there a Warcraft class too?

  • not saying this is bad; the math is logical... but really i want to know:

    was this really worth my 46 minutes?

    i dont know if icould improve my game based upon these calculations, because:

    1) its doubtful i would carry out such calculations in teh heat of a battle instead of microing

    2) this doesnt take into account any microing done by enemies

    3) this might only influence me to fight a battle which 'should' inflict more damage, but ends up killing me by wasting my units O.o

    comments :S?

  • I agree, this class is a joke. You'd improve your game faster by spending the time playing.

    As far as economizing and resource management, the analysis is good, but it won't take up a whole semester.

  • Comment removed

  • yeah, if not analyzed cleanly, then it's not worth it imo.

  • He stated in the beginning of the class, it is all theory: it is not meant to make you be a better SC player, but to understand the concepts of management, resources, optimization, and economy along with a few other concepts.

    In order to be a class it must be something more than just playing a game, as I hope you would understand.

  • Your grade in this class is your rank on iCCup.

  • Nobody is going to voluntarly use these equations on the go. What he's teaching is the theory behind what the pros are thinking involuntarly while they play to give the students a simplified idea on how to act in a real game. Micro is irrelevant because he's not talking about micro, he's talking about army/economy efficiency. Micro comes into play in later lectures.

  • @DF2K the "PROS" lululululululululul

  • @DF2K You can also use them before a game to formulate a strategy for your game. Also, if you understand the theory, you can adapt your plan based on what you scout and what happens in the game.

  • It is also completely pointless because it doesn't take into account micro or position on the map. if you have two zealots on a ramp blocking the way they can shred zerglings all day. but if the zealots go out and allow themselves to be surrounded 5-6 zerglings would have no problem shreading two zealots baring favorable macro from either side and with them being evenly upgraded. Micro has alot more to do with survivability than this goofballs equations.

  • edot

  • Your post just makes it clear that you haven't got it at all, you clearly haven't studied science at all. Every theory has to have a starting point. He is just showing a good basic concept for comparing units in SC. Read up on Descartes and his theory of how to gain knowlage in a subject. If your going to criticizes this video, criticize his work on efficiency and not something else.

  • who was it that said "no plan survives contact with the enemy"...

  • i guess it was Sun Tzu in his book about war

  • I understand the math but there is no way someone could execute this in the middle of the game.

  • this is way too cool 4 school

  • no its not

  • He's not making it too complicated, he's just putting into equations what many pro players know off by heart. It's a game of putting finite resources against finite resources, and you have to be sure you deplete more of your enemy's at the cost of your own.

    This is fairly basic early college or late high school maths. You can't just go by 'gut feeling' if you want to play competitively.

  • too complicated.

    Its pointless because of that.

  • but isn't the efficiency not exactly set due to micro management? o_o

  • He's a man who understands Starcraft.And a man who understands himself. Nicely done.

  • the math is not complicated, its just when you see a symbol you automaticlly think this is complicated , but what you have to remember is what the symbols mean, like i can make up an equation of words just making up symbols,

    s=symbols = =mean w/e=whatever

    s=w/e lol im speaking nonsense

  • Well the fact that some people will never learn to solve a linear equation or read for that matter, makes this hard for those people. So to say that the math is not complicated only aplies to you really. Remember, NOTHING is hard or complicated, IF you know how to do it.

    For example you might have a hard time understanding the japanese letters, while (idk how many japanese reading people there are) billions of people find it "not complicated".

  • I didnt know starcraft had complicated math involved. i dont know what the hell he was talking about at the beginning. I know the annotations said "formulas" but since my math is so crappy, its the same as not understanding.

  • i had game theory, nothing like this :).

  • I have friends who do math for fun (like this guy). The significance of his work is this: it can be used to improve the artificial intelligence (ai). Maybe you could have a "slider" control in the pre-game setup that lets you dial back the ai.

  • is this guy serious?

  • its a game theory class... its about more than just starcraft... its about using resources effectually to achieve a specific goal.

  • Wow great stuff, too bad the cam's battery ran out.

  • This lecture was by far the most interesting and useful lecture I've seen yet. Those equations were such a beautiful way to model battles in Starcraft. Surely it doesn't take into account micro, but if you can approximate efficiency values using micro during different periods of the game then it can be a very accurate model.

    Thanks for posting the lecture!

  • People are not joking when they say starcraft is a complicated game, why don't they just say "an arcon dies from 3 strikes of a battlecruiser" etc think it gets a little bit easier ^^ but it's just me, I dont like math ^^

  • Because there are more variables than just the archon dies from 3 strikes of a battle cruiser. On top of calculating efficiency, it's also predictions etc.

  • Starcraft is basically Go in real-time

  • Well.... yeah any RTS involves math... however most of the 'calculations' is via repetitive experiences and situations.... but if u really want to take this to like an MIT persepective in "Breaking starcraft" u could time unit deployment, unit movespeed how long to get to B from pt. A, DPS- how many units can attack a target at the same time and ect... However PRO gamers may not even think about any of this b/c they practiced so much its pretty much 3rd nature.

  • You can try to "break starcraft" like this, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to affect your skill much.

  • Just step on the disc.

  • yes i also think so . you could even learn math

    in how to ski-jump or the time/effort calculation for some task. well real life gaming doesnt need such theory (tho its HELPFULL for people to understand IF they dont understand the theory)

  • yuk lecture quality drops wayyy off from the 1st one.... disappointing :(

  • ooohhhh..... hypnotizing...

  • This class explains how game theory operates and functions in a real life example. This does nothing to improve your skill.

  • This lecture doesnt cover how a micro'd 1 vulture can kill 40000000000000000000000 lings

  • Did you post lecture 2?

  • They post only a few so people will sign up for the class next semester

  • This is a univeristy course in game theory, not pro gaming...

    By combining starcraft with math and possibly other subjects you increase your knowledge in a much stronger way.

  • Do you know that in real life, about .5 percent of the entire world population uses calculus? So you're not saying much.

  • i heard moletrap!! woot go moletrap!

  • Watching a youtube video within a youtube video is pretty sweet.

  • i get some of it.

    Basically the math is to help create builds.. But he even said that this math isnt good for on the spot situations. Like if you are fighting someone you can pause and calculate something and unpause. Those calcs are done before hand in a build, with +/- factors to adapt.

    This math is for their build creating component right?

  • How does the micro definition apply to mind control?

  • This is really overe complicates everything.

    Plus the math is pointless cus it assumes equal damage and surrounding vs lings what happens to the math when those archons have zealots covering them?

    Theres a huge aspect to the game the math cant account for, so it makes it all pointless.

  • the game engine is based on math isnt it? (;

  • Computers are based on math, base word of Computer = Compute

    Merriam Websters defines Compute as : to determine especially by mathematical means .

  • thats what i meant :]

    i jsut wantet to say that there is a point in making such a project.

  • Realistically, you CAN do the necessary math on the fly via a very simple greedy algorithm intended to maximize damage dealt and minimize damage received.

    Simply: For each unit on the field-

    1.) If critical health enemy unit in range, strike finishing blow, else

    2.) If this unit is critical health retreat, else

    3.) If any enemy unit in range, strike blow, else... etc.

    In most cases where unit compositions are sufficiently homogeneous, similar greedy algorithms should suffice.

  • i can hear moletrap !!!! :D

  • I understand the math, yet don't understand its purpose. This math can't be done on the fly so it's all estimation anyway.

  • to create builds and timing attacks. but he is even saying its just ... for predicting. u cant take any of this for granted.

    ex:

    1+1 = 2 right?

    well he is saying for sc, 1+1can =2, 3, 4 , -1... wtvr

  • Well I understand WHAT he's saying. 1 units worth compared to anothers may be worth figuring out but doing the math on hypothetical armies is kinda silly in my eyes.

    If you've played starcraft for a while you can kinda figure it out in your head.

  • You honestly think "Go by your gut feeling and your experiences" would pass as a college course? This is just learning (of game theory) made fun.

  • No, but I don't think this portion of the class was relevant.

    The other classes have been good, but this one is just boring/tiresome/and useless.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk, just saying what I feel.

  • honestly i would have rather seen the micro turni at the end instead of the lame math at the beginning

  • Where's lecture 2?

  • woooo go moletrap!!!

  • i wanna see lecture 4

  • and what about lecture2? Will it be uploaded?

  • Holy shit, I wish I understood that math...

  • On the lurker and mutalisk egg, im pretty sure that there are two distinguishable eggs.

    The lurkers have a lurker egg cause its an evolve just like the devours and guards while all the other units just have eggs

  • videos start at 36:40 :)

  • why do we never see moletrap

  • Range of all units plays a huge factor in SC along with micro'ing, there is no way you can calculate how the human mind will react to each encounter and which unit to move at what time. And then we have the "higher ground" AI which is a 33% miss ratio and completly random. Seeing this feels like someone telling me 2 is more than 1, but in a more complex way. Like a car crashes into an other car, but a human mind redirects one car 4m to the left and it wont hit the other car.

  • While I've never studied starcraft theory, as an aerospace engineer, I've seen the development of many complex systems mathematically. The typical progression is to consider the "ideal case" first. ie, What happens if 3 zealots attack 9 zerglings perfectly? Perfectly or ideally being the key word. Once you understand this you can add in inefficiencies based on the players skill as well as high ground or low ground. This is only the beginning of the model, and what a rich one it is. Amazing

  • Best video ever!

  • Include Jacobian transforms, MxN determinants, inversions, and parametrically-defined tensors, and more that I don't know. and I bet this model comes pretty close to how Blizzard would actually "balance" the game. I mean, aren't all RTS games really only series of differential equations (defining rates of change of all game variables exclusively and exhaustively with respect to one another while holding the others constant) being resolved iteratively in time, creating the game's "events"?

  • LIFE is only a relatively small set of differential equations...

  • I think you mean the Laws of Nature, not Life per se, but I get your point.

  • zomg moletrap in real life.

  • Where?

  • I don't think we actually see him, but it is weird to think that he is actually in the room.

  • The analysis of why probes are sent in first is terrible. Probes actually have a very high dps/hp ratio, so theoretically they should be protected at the goons' expense until the goons get to very low hp. Instead, the probes are sent in first because their stacking confuses the dt and zealot collision physics, making them attack less often, and because the probes are melee so they need to rush in, combined with the fact that they are much harder to micro, which makes them expendable early on.

  • That game where only 3 kingdoms dragoons while not having nexus wins the game was awesome !

  • about 29 minutes in we hear that Moletrap's name is "Steven"

  • this is a clasS?

  • Comment removed

  • I'm not really sure. Maybe if you formed a coherent comment with a question mark I could answer your question/statement.

  • I heard someone using Ubuntu!!!!!!! FTW!

  • You know, cuz there are only, say, a few hundred people who play for a living.