If one believes based on Pascal's wager, then one would not only be betting on the existence of the god of the bible, one would also have to make sure they are betting on the right god. There are many horses (gods) in the race, including the gods of the Hindus, Greeks, Mayans, Incas, Aztec, etc. Bets would also have to be placed on each of these gods. Further more, if all the gods existed, one had better be betting on the most powerful to worship. It's better and simply rationalize than gamble.
1. It's a false dichotomy; you'd better hope you have the right god! The Christian one is a jealous one, to say NOTHING of some of the other ones out there...
2. More to the point, if you spend all your life being pious in preparation for eternity and you were wrong, it is NOT the case that you've lost nothing; the idea of squandering this gift of life waiting for the next one is abominable; it is a supreme act of hubris.
I here he'll isn't so bad once you body adjusts to the temp. Exchange much like getting into cold water and after a short time you don't even notice. If hell exists it can have my soul. There is only one condition and that is I get to wear floaties in the lake of fire.
Pascal's wager is a religious cop out, technically it shouldn't get you 'off the hook' if you believe in God because Pascal or anyone else told you so
As an intellectual enemy of Chris HItchens, I can honestly say that this is the first video where I glimpsed some serious honesty and beauty in the soul of Chris Hitchens. There is hope for him ... for me. Thanks for the post. You're dead wrong about God, Chris.
It makes NO practical difference whether or not God exists !!! It does, however, make a practical difference to what degree we have Scientific understanding of nature... It's the ONLY thing that makes our lives BETTER then that of our ancestors.
@Sanquinity "There are thousands of different concepts for god, versus one 'non-belief'. The chance isn't 50/50, but thousands versus one." A brilliant example of faulty logic.
@mandolinic if you think that's the faulty one, you sir are trying to use common sense and not logic. And human common sense is incredibly faulty when trying to apply it logic.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
One point that he didn't really hit on is that Pascal's wager assumes 50:50 odds due to it assuming that there are only 2 variables (Christian God or NO Christian God).
In actual fact the variables would consist of every concept of God(s) ever conceived by any cult/religion, as well as every other conceivable concept of God. So you're probably a lot better off playing the lottery...
I have come onto this site to make one point, and that point is that I have reason to believe that "Pascal's Wager" did not come from Pascal. I say this because he was an expert on the doctrine of grace, and his writings on the subject would tell me that he would never make such a wager. The wager sounds more like it came from Jesuit, who were not Catholic
@anastasia2657 If you're going to come here JUST to make this one point, I see no reason why you can't be challenged to defend it.
What reason do you offer for not believing that Pascal didn't author this wager? By what measure do you consider him an expert on the "doctrine of grace"? I've read his works and found him to be nothing of the sort. Why do you claim Jesuits were not Catholic?
You seem to have a unique view of the topic and I'm curious as to how you came to your conclusions.
Lots of confused, misleading discussion in this rant. Since most of you deny the existence of God anyway, why now attempt to malign Him with unjustly condemning pple. Isn't this exactly what one might expect from intolerance- always omit the salient facts of His justice, mercy and purity. God will certainly judge righteously; faith says pple will get what they deserve.YES, the likes of rapists, murderers,thieves, slave-traders,robbers,greedy hypocrites,etc.. will go to Hell-but pple choose HELL
It is a fact that many philosophers like pascal and newton were extremely religious, its the politics of the age, people shouldn't get offended by it, they should just accept their scientific and mathematical contributions, and ignore the rest if it upsets them so much.
Pascal was an enemy of Probabilism. Sounds like you have studied Christianity from the atheists. The atheists do not believe in God because it cannot be proven in nature. It requires faith, and faith comes with grace, that the atheists do not get. Pascal knew that better than anyone. Frankly, I'm surprised this "wager" was something that Pascal would even bother to present to the unbelievers. It is clever, but he knew that as reasonable as it is, the atheists would never buy it.
@anastasia2657 Pascals wager is a false dichotomy. That right there takes out the idea of it being brilliant or clever. It's also based on the idea that there is no harm in "believing" and that's not true. If this is the only life we get any amount of time spent worshiping something that isn't there and any dime that is spent in deference to a god is wasted. Also, just because you've decided to believe in one particular god doesn't mean you've voided the hell of some other god.
@garrettwarren2 The only thing "harmed" by their belief in God is their overweening pride. But atheists are the first people to "believe" in such things as "dinosaurs." They do not research into the history of the matter. They simply "believe" it. And it is not because God told them to believe it, but because some earthly liars told them to believe it.
And the time wasted praying, the bigoted beliefs against other groups, any money they have given to a church, and the falsehoods they have helped to slow progress.
No, because we have evidence of dinosaurs existence, we have fossils of them that we can date back.
I'm going to accept things by scientists of faith regularly, but the results they produce are undeniable. I can't tell you how a satellite works, but I've seen the results of what it does.
@anastasia2657 What Pascal never mentioned is the fact that other religions and other versions of hells exist. Assuming you're a Christian, you might get sent to the Muslim hell, Hindu hell, etc. if you're wrong about other religions. I'm not sure how Pascal's Wager could be "clever" if it doesn't even take into account of this simple fact. In my opinion, it's a simple tactic to lure non-thinking gullible people into believing what he believed.
@gupsphoo Pascal knew that a person could not believe in God if God did not give them the grace to believe in Him. He also knew that God did not give his grace to all, but only some. In other words, he would have known that this Wager could not be accepted by those not given the needed grace to believe, , and for that reason, I tend not to believe ithat the Wager written about came from Pascal, and if it did come from him, it may have been a half-serious remark.
@anastasia2657 I notice that you did not even address the problem of multiple religions at all. It's pretty obvious that you can't even think outside your box.
@anastasia2657 If your god is as loving as you say it is. Than it would judge eternal bliss or damnation based on the actions made in their life. I would like to think that if you lived a good life and left a positive legacy, than you should go to the heaven you speak of regardless of belief. If you lived a mostly bad life and left a negative legacy, than I would like to think they would go to your proposed hell, regardless of faith. Grace has nothing to do with accepting an unsupported idea.
@anastasia2657 Well that's an interesting take. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't god make us all sinners. So what reason would he not then give all sinners grace? Your position is non-sensical.
@spmcd2011 Look, I am reciting the Church's teachings. Pascal was an expert on the doctrine of grace, no one knew it like him, and that is why I doubt that he made a "Pascal's Wager", as they call it. . It may be that a Jesuit made such a wager, but not Pascal and I have absolutely no desire to engage in a argument with you about religion. It is clear you know nothing about it and I feel confident that you will not be looking into the matter.
@spmcd2011 God made us all sinners" . If you know anything at all about God, or even the most elementary concept of Him, just think about that statement you just made. It is clear you do not know the first thing about God, who He is or anything else, and I feel confident to predict tha tyou will not be looking into the matter. .
@ciaochowbella No, I am not implying it. I am saying it. What you have said already tells me what you have read. I would suggest you talk to Christopher Hitchens about yours and his readings.
@anastasia2657 You have NO IDEA what I've read. However, I notice that you completely ignored the questions I asked in order to be presumptuous and change the subject, so I'll ask again.
How do you know about the nature of god? If so, where did you get this knowledge? As a supposedly infinite, unknowable being beyond human comprehension, I'm curious as to how you would know god. Do you have a hotline to god? How do you know you're worshipping the correct deity? What if you wrong?
@anastasia2657 You have NO IDEA what I've read. However, I notice that you completely ignored the questions I asked in order to be presumptuous and change the subject, so I'll ask again.
How do you know about the nature of god? Where did you get this knowledge? As a supposedly infinite, unknowable being beyond human comprehension, I'm curious as to how you would know god. Do you have a hotline to god? How do you know you're worshipping the correct deity? What if you wrong about your worship?
@ciaochowbella Let me speak more plainly. I do not wish to answer questions about the nature of God with someone who does not even know how to spell His name. As far as Pascal is concerned, start by reading the Provincial Letters, which are renowned. Read Augustine. Read what the Dominicans said about the doctrine before the Jesuits came along. Pascal was in the front line of this battle in Christian Europe, and that is why I suspect he is not the author of "Pascal's Wager." .
@ciaochowbella Let me speak more plainly. I do not wish to answer questions about the nature of God with someone who does not even know how to spell His name. As far as Pascal is concerned, start by reading the Provincial Letters, which are renowned. Read Augustine. Read what the Dominicans said about the doctrine before the Jesuits came along. Pascal was in the front line of this battle in Christian Europe, and that is why I suspect he is not the author of "Pascal's Wager." .
@anastasia2657 "God" is not a name. It's a job description. The name of the Biblical god is YHWH.
You cannot know the nature of god for it is, according to Christianity, UNKNOWABLE. For you to claim you could is a lie. For you to dodge questions is a cop out.
Scholars greater than you agree that Pascal was the author of his notorious wager. Your doubts need more justification.
Again, I reiterate, how do you claim to know the nature of your god? What if you're worshipping the wrong god?
How typically Christian. Run away from the hard questions and the points that make you uncomfortable.
You know, if your religion was truly divine, it would stand up to the most strictest scrutiny. It wouldn't require it's followers to cherry pick, lie and "interpret", or engage in mental gymnastics to explain the atrocities, contradictions and immorality.
I thought your god gave you all you needed. Won't he give you the answers?
@anastasia2657 No. I asked YOU some pointed questions. Attempting to deflect them with some fatuous discussion on whether or not Pascal authored his infamous wager is beside the point.
Once again, I ask YOU, how can you claim to know the nature of your god when it is claimed to be unknowable AND what if YOU are worshipping the wrong god in accordance to Pascal's wager?
Seriously, I'm asking YOU. No one else. If I wanted to know what Lors said, I'd ask him.
He calls Blaise Pascal, an absolute purist, a man of the highest integrity, and one of the most intelligent men of his age, as well as our age, , is called a "huckster" by this creep?
This m an has contempt for not only God, but for everyone of us, as well..
@anastasia2657 Isn't "Pascals Wager" just an alteration of "Probability Theory" which was invented to help rich aristocrats win more money with their gambling? That doesn't really seem "of the highest integrity". He was bright for his time, sure, but his wager is based on Yahweh being real, hell being real, and heaven being real. It totally ignores all other gods, other heavens and hells, and any other possible outcomes. it seems he was bright until his "Spiritual Experience" in the mid 1600's
@lease2coach ""There are thousands of "possibles"; why just choose Yahweh?"" No, there are thousands of descriptions, all man made, but only one God, one divine consciousness. Your problem is with the dogmas, that is all you know, because you don't know God. Dogmas might be wrong but God is real.
A question for atheists. In a world where there's no proof of God's existence or of life after death; how will you explain to your children why you brought them into the world and why they should die?
Pascal Wager is a way to get you interested. What if... Well you will never know if you don't experience it. I was a non-believer but I kept looking and one of the reasons I kept looking was this what if probability. Now believing is one thing, and living in grace is another. When you live in grace, when you are in God's wavelength, your life is transformed. You have to be in communion with God to be saved, believing is not enough. That's why you reject the pascal wager, you don't understand.
@dejesusluisx I'd say Hitchens, much the same as myself, rejects Pascal's Wager because it's baseless. There's no reason to fool yourself into believing in something for which there is no evidence. Would you apply this "logic" to anything else? If not, why not?
@badnewsBH ""because it's baseless"" it's a logical argument to weigh risk to keep you mind open, what base do you expect? The fact that it's logical should be sufficient. ""no reason to fool yourself into believing"" that's exactly what you don't understand, the argument is not for believing, is for you not to close your mind to the possibility. I apply this logic to any risk, that's why I have 401K, savings, bonds and insurance; plus nice lawyer friends. ; )
@dejesusluisx "what base do you expect?" Evidence, personally. If there is no real reason to suspect gods even exist, why defer to them? As I said previously, do you apply that standard to anything else? You buy insurance or savings bonds in response to actual risk, based on observation of people actually needing these things.
@badnewsBH And of course, the other issue with the wager is, which god do you worship? What if you're wrong? It's not simply a matter of the Christian god or no god. What if the Aztecs were the only people to ever worship the correct gods? What if we've *never* gotten our worship right, and the god that does exist has condemned *everyone*? Unfortunately, the Wager doesn't really solve the problem.
@badnewsBH ""What if we've *never* gotten our worship right"" it doesn't matter the name, there's only one God, one divine consciousness you need to be in communion with. People always knew there was a God, people saw the sun and said: God is there, and gave that a name; they saw the thunder and said, aha, God is there, and gave it another name. They couldn't comprehend that one being can be everywhere. The problem isn't God, is the dogmas, some bring you closer others take you away.
@dejesusluisx Even assuming this is true, and that is by no means a given, how can we possibly know which practices and tenets are correct? This is why Pascal's Wager truly fails. It's not enough to believe that some god exists; you have to somehow determine that you're worshiping in the manner of which the actual god approves. If you aren't, then you're failing as completely as though you never believed at all.
@badnewsBH "how can we possibly know which practices" simple: God is energy and to be in tune with an energy source, you need to be in the same wavelength, in the same way the only requirement for salvation is to be in God's wavelength. Buddhists call that be enlightened, Christians call it living in grace, Hindus call it moksha and Muslims call it Taubah. Doesn't matter which religion you choose, the road is marked in each of them. God doesn't need or want worship, the love of God means respect
@badnewsBH ""Evidence, personally"" if the logical argument can be proved with evidence, fine, but if it can't then you need to evaluate the argument on it's merits and in the logic provided. ""why defer to them"" there's only one God, one divine consciousness that people have given different names and attributed dogmas in our desire to understand Him. ""in response to actual risk"" yes, and you use actual money to buy it. Your belief is free and if God is imaginary, it cost you lost nothing.
@dejesusluisx The assertion that there is only one god cannot be supported by evidence at this point, so again, we have no reason to believe it. Since we cannot know if any gods exist, it makes no sense to worship one, as we cannot be sure that we're worshiping the correct one. More importantly, I can't just believe in the existence of a deity without evidence. I don't have the ability to fool myself like that.
@badnewsBH If I don't earnestly believe, doesn't that completely undermine the wager? I can't do it "just in case", because the god will see that I don't really believe. These problems with Pascal's Wager have been outlined and expounded upon far more eloquently than I can accomplish, especially in this limited space. Check out other videos covering this topic for much better explanations.
@badnewsBH ""god will see that I don't really believe"" of course, so don't; but don't close yourself either. You need to keep praying, regardless, that is the only way you will keep the door open. Talk to God, ask for enlightenment and understanding and eventually God will send you a sign that only you will understand. I've seen most videos, and the objections are similar, and the basis for them are the man made dogmas. Dogmas doesn't matter if you live in grace, if you are one with God.
@badnewsBH "cannot be supported by evidence at this point" if I told you the evidence is behind a closed door, wouldn't you be willing to open the door and look? The evidence is available, but you have closed the door of your heart and mind to the possibility. Worship is not important, is being one with God, acting like Christ, what is. No one is asking you to believe hypocritically, you just need to open your mind to the possibility of God existence, despite foolish man made dogmas, God is real
@dejesusluisx Herein lies the rub. I haven't closed my mind to the possibility. All God needs to do is show me evidence that *requires no faith* to accept. What people have called "signs" have, at best, been events that we could interpret as messages from the divine. None of this is independently verifiable as evidence of something beyond the mundane. I can feel lots of things, for lots of reasons, but none of that should be accepted as evidence of a deity on its own.
@dejesusluisx You are so very wrong. The idea of only one began with Abraham, who grew up a polytheistic Babylonian. Nearly all early Hebrews were polythestic and slowly followed Abraham's lead. Took centuries. Christians who believe in a Trinity are doing nothing less either. Even the Torah texts refer to plural gods, as evidenced by the word Elohim, which is mistranslated as "God" in most Christian Bibles.
@gvman3670 The limitation wasn't in God's revelation, God revealed himself the only way an all powerful energy can be revealed, through our consciousness, but the goat herders living 3,000 yrs ago didn't have the same level of knowledge and understanding we have today. How can you explain relativity, quantum physics and cosmology to a 10 yr old? That was the level of knowledge, experience and abilities of the shepherds who received the revelations in the old testament compared to our standards.
@MrArpas123 Well I would hope your "loving" god doesn't judge somebody whether on something as selfish as if you simply believed in him when he gave no evidence but rather on if they lived a good life. If he doesn't, throws a hissy-fit and tells me, "How dare you not believe in ME! Off to Hell with you!" I'll be glad knowing I didn't devote my life worshiping this egocentric, narcissistic deity.
You obviously don't know your bible . He is just telling what the bible says...Sounds to me like your issue is with God.Better think before you speak.Christians are commanded to love but they are also told to stand for that which is right!We are NOT stupid or weak like you would have your followers believe and that makes you nervous.Read the book of Revelations and you will see clearly what is going on in this world and what will happen next.Hint:We win!
@BlankPicketSign i'm sure atheism was always around. even in ancient greek times there are quotes of philosophers stating they don't believe in zeus. it's called common sense working it's way through the bullshit.
Pascal's wager sets up a false dichotomy. One in which the only two possibilities are the Christian god who will torment us for all eternity for not worshiping him, and extinction. But what if Zeus is the true god? Should we sacrifice virgins to him just in case? (Or whatever worship of Zeus involves..) Or what if the gods of the Australian Natives are the true gods? Or a god we don't know about? So, I say go with the evidence. And there is no evidence the Christian god exists.
I still can't believe that any theist, worth his salt, would take Pascal's wager seriously given their model of God. If they did, they do not understand their own god's properties. Surely an omniscient god would see through their little charade.
@darthelghastN7 I'm an ex fundamentalist too... same thing for me... I decide to collect evidence of existence. and found noting but bs... The Egyptian book of the dead and it's stories/myths told thousands of years before the christian myths (same story different names)... pretty much nailed the coffin lid shut :-)
@pooooccurs oh, that is profound!... I was a little kid and the pascals wager is how they scared me into believing... I've since left the compound, called the midwest... and have read histories and everything I can get my hands on... and have come to the same conclusion.
@darthelghastN7 You can't see love with a microscope. It's the wrong tool for the job. There is an evidence that is not empirical. Science tells us that because something is not necessarily seen or known, does not mean that it doesn't exist. We can't see gravity, but we know its effects. You and I are both searching for meaning, otherwise we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Molecules don't search for meaning. We were created with a purpose and it is our lifelong search. Peace.
@FRWHELAN "Science tells us that because something is not necessarily seen or known, does not mean that it doesn't exist."
That's a piss-poor understanding of science. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Stop pretending that science, the greatest human endeavor, succumbs to basic logical fallacies the way you do. You need to read more than one book, and go to facilities with more teachers and less preachers.
@ChaseKittens Science is constantly discovering things we didn't know before. So, the best scientist will always keep an open mind so that his biases don't inhibit his study. AND science does succumb to logical fallacies. Happens all the time. Why? Scientists are human-Humans are susceptible to errors-Therefore, science is susceptible to errors. But if the belief that scientists are infallible is a doctrine of yours, then I will not attack your religious beliefs out of ecumenism. Peace!
My wager: You should spend your life training for marathons because when you die, cerberus will chase you. If i am wrong, then you suffered a small loss. If i am right, you saved your eternal soul. So stop worshipping God and put those running shoes on Mr. Pascal.
@meanlittledog "You should spend your life training for marathons" I like it! plus, think how much weight you'll lose! So, Americans, start running! Besides, Satan ran track in high school
@darthelghastN7 Oh, by the way, my 16 year old son just noticed that you said that the brain "was made for" something. He wants to know: Who made it and why? Don't you mean evolved randomly from chaos and thus it has no purpose other than that which I choose to give it? Sounds like a contradiction. You cant subscribe to relativity and abiogenesis and then start telling people that things are good,bad, vile,contradictory or have specific meaning or functions. Its all chaos....
@darthelghastN7 Delusion is only temporarily comfortable. How about the heart? You can deny that as well. We are more than a brain Mr. Spock. Living by intellect alone makes you more than an animal...but not fully human. Computers don't write poetry, love, become moved at the sight of beauty or dream of a better world. Use your brain, certainly, but allow your heart to play it's role as well. It can be painful, but you might see there's far more to this world than dead molecules. Peace!
The defence of Pascal's Wager is you have nothing to lose, and likely nothing to gain; so, believe in God because there's no hurt in it. Well, that maybe true, except the only thing you can gain is a severe downgrade of your intellectual argument. But who cares about that argument when you're dead?
"A Rational Person and/or Atheist doesn't call what is beyond his Intelligence & Knowledge a "God", he views it as a place to Explore and Learn; NOT Worship or Pray To."
@ivlfounder You say no historian or scientist has ever said they were false, you are completely wrong again. As the telescope and microscope have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they are full of simply myths, superstitions and ancient ignorance. Ancient ignorance that you claim to be correct. More proof you are a delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder You accuse me of ignoring one word? WTF, you ignore massive amounts of reality to chase your illogical delusional moronic beliefs. You are a delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder You ignore intelligence, logic and reason, you do not have a foundation to stand on. You are a delusional fucking moron. Who once again resorts to "attack the messenger" or attack the semantics, and ignore everything else of substance. I did not ignore 'legit" by the way as I know you only accept facts that match your perception and discard facts that do not. So your 'legit' scientists will be only ones from religious colleges (FACT). You are once again a delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder The minute I saw you claiming Jefferson was a christian, I knew for a fact you were a delusional fucking moron. Only a god deluded idiot would have an agenda to do so. I don't need to know why you believe, I know the fact that you do, proves you are a delusional fucking moron. It is that easy. It is that plain and simple. It is why any one equipped with any logic and reason will immediately know you are full of it. You are a delusional fucking moron. It's a fact.
@ivlfounder Religious colleges bad? almost always, when myths and superstitions are more important than fact, logic and reason, they are. When creationism is taught as a science, when it is not, they are bad. When theology trumps intelligence (like you) they are bad. You are a delusional fucking moron. Virtually everything you believe is provably false.
@ivlfounder You would laugh at reality, You delusional fucking moron. You have no counterpoint. Duke university is not a "religious college'. You lose once again.
@ivlfounder Its website states that although it maintains Christian affiliations, it does not expect a totally Christian student body. There is a beautiful church on the campus, but attendance is not compulsory and most students do not attend on any given Sunday. I cannot imagine anyone staying away from Duke because of its religious connection. It certainly has no religious requirements for students or faculty. You delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder It was, but now the divinity school, as Harvard and Yale have done, is totally separate from the real curriculum. You are a delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder Religious college is different then a religiously financed college, so once again your point is moot. . Besides you still miss the point, as usual, they don't teach creationism as a science. Only deluded religious morons think creationism is a science. They don't teach theology over reality, they even separated the two, as they have their Duke Divinity School separate from the main curriculum. What happened to no more posts from you? Are you a liar? You delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder You are arguing over what a religious college is and you don't understand, this has nothing to do with your god is make believe. Your point is moot and does nothing to prove your delusion is true. You once again went way off on some piece of trivia that has nothing at all to do with; your god does not exist. You are a delusional fucking moron.
@ivlfounder Actually it upsets you as it doesn't prove your god exists. You still miss the point, you are living a delusion. You are a delusional fucking moron.
(* = the argument from ignorance doesn't count! i.e. we don't know so god did it. ) agnostics/atheists prefer to say that the variable "X" did/caused it.
Pascals wager exemplifies a lot of what is typical of religion - the fear of the unknown and the calculated cowardly mentality it has towards it. The fact that some theists (or ANY human being who has though about it for more than 2 minutes) would find this a compelling argument is to me nothing less than astonishing - and equal parts appalling. It is either the thinking of a dishonest coward, or of a person who has been mentally conditioned to think like one from a young age.
@TheStigma If you live by Pascal's wager, you don't really have faith now do you? Lke most Christians I know I did not come to faith because of Pascal's wager. I had a real encounter with the living God. And I couldn't help but love Him.
@FRWHELAN You will find no argument from me on that point. Obviously, even if there were such thing as a god, then you could not fake belief in him to gain the rewards - which is basically what Pascals wager entails. It is nice to see that some theists too can see the gaping holes in this logic. If anything I would think it would be most offensive to people who actually believe in god - as you are basically being advised to try to cheat the system.
Hope for sale! It only cost 10% of your annual income. Hurry now before you die! Send you gift of payment now so you can get your ticket to heaven while supplies still last. Plus $19.95 shipping and handling.
Live life as if there is a judgement day and only then will humanity come to one and unite. If I as a believer am right, then you are in big trouble, if you as a atheist is right, then I've got nothing to worry about. At the end of the day I've lived a good humble warm and ethical life, the atheist has lived a life stumbling in the dark in a empty life.
LOL. How about them crusades? Or those two towers and that pentagon? And what about the other 1000 religions that could be correct? Crusades and 9/11 and worshiping a god evil and cruel enough to torture forever is definitely not ethical. If I was god I would reward the atheists for being intelligent and thinking for themselves and not reward theists for being gullible and believing out of fear.
@SexyArcanine666 It is a demonic fallacy that God will torture anyone forever. This was adopted some Christians who were eager to appear smart to the secular world and who gave up Bible truth to follow Greek philosophy. Athenegoras and Tertullian were the leaders in this. Read: helltruthDOTcom
God WILL reward people in all views who sincerely follow truth and use their minds. The big problem though is that most atheists indisputably do NOT do this and they fight and deny vast evidence.
@SexyArcanine666 It is also stupid lunacy that most theists believe out of fear...utterly idiotic foolishness.
However, there is nothing wrong at all with rewarding people for doing what is right and punishing what is wrong. No nation could function without doing that and neither can the universe. God's problem is that if sin abuse, torture, rape, etc. continues forever, that's a hell worse than ANYTHING he desires. God's hell is a short act of justice to end suffering forever.
Atheism isnt a religion? Its just a disbelief in fairy tales and credulity. The only reason Hitchens and Dawkins are ramming home this point is to raise awareness to how much religion is creeping back since the enlightenment. They hate dogma and just want people to be pragmatic and critical of unfounded claims. The most sound advice you could give. I dont want to go back to the dark ages thanks.
@MomOfThreeCats Funny bumper sticker...good for a laugh, but nothing more. Pascal's wager is very powerful and strong logic and conclusively confirmed while Russell's teapot argument is a fallacy that would make many real peole in the history and present that we know do exist, non-existent.
For Pascal's Wager, see this video&esp. the updates in the notes
watch?v=2UmnWQ1c4Pw
It's been confirmed even by sole fact that following the Bible adds 10+ years to life (see my Bible health playlist)
@TruthIsLife7 I don't know where your "fact" comes from, but it's actually quite the opposite. Do you have a reference for your study claiming this fact? And, just fyi, there are correlations abound within countries that have more socialistic governments, higher number of agnostics/atheists and better quality of and longer life, less violence, etcetera. Check out the Netherlands to start with. When you live in fear, life isn't prolonged...and it's certainly not as enjoyable.
@MomOfThreeCats My facts come from primary sources and research across the spectrum. On some topics, I have 1000s of files citing research or data of different kinds. On the Bible health science, there are MANY studies on up to 100,000 people verifying this. National Geographic, Blue Zones, the NIH, NCI and many other secular organizations verify it. See videos #1-3 here for secular confirmation and #4-6 for an overview of the Bible principles.
@TruthIsLife7 "My facts come from primary sources and research across the spectrum. On some topics, I have 1000s of files citing research or data of different kinds."
believing, no matter how hard, does not make it true, and factual.
read the Egyptian book of the dead... and if you can't see same story's different names... just keep drinking the koolaid. there is not hope for ya.
But, note that I'm criticizing a system. There are some admirable individuals in any system who deserve respect. But, esp. since atheism makes no claims, there is no possibility for it to contribute anything of value to human life and progress. Almost by definition it contributes nothing. While the Bible has indisputably contributed enormous amounts to human life. See my Bible health playlist for how the Bible health principles add ~10+ years to life, confirmed by many secular organizations.
@TruthIsLife7 Well you are right in that Atheism itself contributes nothing...but neither does any religion. It is the people of these groups who do the contributing. And any poll will show you that atheists are much more likely to contribute more to society than religious people.
@thegegors It is categorically false that religion contributes nothing. Read the quote on my profile. It is also absolutely false that atheists are more likely to contribute more to society than religious people. There are some that do for sure. But, Christians have built infinitely more hospitals and schools, pioneered far more scientific fields as well as Occam's razor and the modern scientific method itself, campaigned and sacrificed in countless human rights campaigns and so MUCH more.
@TruthIsLife7 If by contributed enormous amounts to human life you mean negative things, then yes, you are correct.The fact that we have to interpret the bible means that the morals are secular and people mistakenly give the credit to the bible.The bible, however, gives people a 'reason' to act immorally. Steven Weinberg sums it up well, "With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
@TruthIsLife7 Also, need I link prison statistics by religion to show the clear correlation between religion and crime? Now, to be clear, there are several mitigating factors but there is no way you can look at the huge proportional lack of atheists in prisons and say, religion is a great moral teacher. At best it doesn't hurt but more than likely the bible is a strong gateway 'drug' to immoral behavior. For, if the bible is accurate, God has been the greatest mass murder of all time.
Do you not realize that a list is NOT any sort of scientific evidence whatsoever? There are lists showing there are more black people in prison than white and you could make all sorts of lists showing that there are more people with bigger hands and longer big toes and whatever. Does black skin and big toes make people commit crimes? It's astounding that so many atheists are duped by this stupidity that has NOTHING to do with any science whatsoever. Do you even know what control groups are??
@TruthIsLife7 Well first off, it is still scientific evidence. What you mean to say, and i agree with, is that it does not prove causality. Second, The proportion of black people vs white people in jail does not even come close to the proportion of religious vs non religious. But still, as i said in my original post, there are mitigating factors, and i wish i could find a study using control groups. I never said Atheism leads to good behavior, just that the bible doesn't either.
@thegegors No, a list is not scientific evidence. To be scientific you have to do some kind of scientific method process or at least do interviews, ask questions, make predictions, look for confirmations, etc. Just making up a list has never been scientific method in any way. You can make percentages in all sorts of ways...for example the percentage of caucasians in prison's is ~25%. So non-caucasians are ~75%..similar to the % of Christians. You could also make a list by weight/bulk, etc.
@thegegors No, the Bible has indisputably contributed far more good to human society than any other worldview. Weinbergs quote is totally ignorant and stupid. You only need to look at all 22 states where atheism was the state religion to see that it's nonsense. Atheists states killed 30 times more people in just 1 century than all religions, even false ones did in ALL history. There are admirable atheist individuals, but atheist states have been the biggest enemies of freedom&life in history.
@TruthIsLife7 Most fascist and extremely communist countries dont claim an official religion but do so to set up their society in a religious sense by making their leader into a godlike figure and claiming their country has some inherent superiority to others. And i can do the same thing you did but turn it around. If you look at current countries, you will notice a strong positive trend in atheism vs standards of living. The U.S. is actually an outlier here.
"Who has the bluest eyes and is the most sexually attractive?"-Hitchens. Love it.
lllv1989 6 hours ago
A: you had the bluest eyes and most sexual charisma - and i'm not just saying that because youre dead chris: )
iBeep2009 1 week ago
If one believes based on Pascal's wager, then one would not only be betting on the existence of the god of the bible, one would also have to make sure they are betting on the right god. There are many horses (gods) in the race, including the gods of the Hindus, Greeks, Mayans, Incas, Aztec, etc. Bets would also have to be placed on each of these gods. Further more, if all the gods existed, one had better be betting on the most powerful to worship. It's better and simply rationalize than gamble.
jayleeds2006 3 weeks ago
He to me already sadly missed.He alone made more sence to me than anyone with the fire to defend his truths in front of anyone.
semiLivedj 1 month ago
RIP great man
fegu 1 month ago
My objection to Pascal's Wager has always been:
1. It's a false dichotomy; you'd better hope you have the right god! The Christian one is a jealous one, to say NOTHING of some of the other ones out there...
2. More to the point, if you spend all your life being pious in preparation for eternity and you were wrong, it is NOT the case that you've lost nothing; the idea of squandering this gift of life waiting for the next one is abominable; it is a supreme act of hubris.
KMallinson 1 month ago 17
@KMallinson nice words!
tristaNINchains 1 month ago
Pascal should be known for his other works, not this crap.
metalliholic 2 months ago
@metalliholic Relax.. He is.
wrjamescom 1 month ago
@wrjamescom stop drinking metal.
dkthg 4 weeks ago
@metalliholic He is known for his other works. Calm down.
AsSomedayItMayHappen 1 month ago
I love Hitchens
TulipLilah 2 months ago
Did you watch the video?
anastasia2657 2 months ago
I here he'll isn't so bad once you body adjusts to the temp. Exchange much like getting into cold water and after a short time you don't even notice. If hell exists it can have my soul. There is only one condition and that is I get to wear floaties in the lake of fire.
Timetowatchbadvideos 3 months ago
@Timetowatchbadvideos If my body, and with it my nerves, are buried in a grave somewhere, then why would I care hot hot hell is? :)
wrjamescom 1 month ago
Pascal's wager is a religious cop out, technically it shouldn't get you 'off the hook' if you believe in God because Pascal or anyone else told you so
MrSmashman1981 3 months ago
As an intellectual enemy of Chris HItchens, I can honestly say that this is the first video where I glimpsed some serious honesty and beauty in the soul of Chris Hitchens. There is hope for him ... for me. Thanks for the post. You're dead wrong about God, Chris.
patientthomist 3 months ago
@patientthomist "Christopher" ...
Cornyabada 3 months ago
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It makes NO practical difference whether or not God exists !!! It does, however, make a practical difference to what degree we have Scientific understanding of nature... It's the ONLY thing that makes our lives BETTER then that of our ancestors.
Redshift313 3 months ago
2 things about pascal's wager:
1: 'believing' in god just for the sake of endurance into heaven is a lie, and an all powerful god would see through it anyway.
2: There are thousands of different concepts for god, versus one 'non-belief'. The chance isn't 50/50, but thousands versus one.
Sanquinity 3 months ago
@Sanquinity "There are thousands of different concepts for god, versus one 'non-belief'. The chance isn't 50/50, but thousands versus one." A brilliant example of faulty logic.
mandolinic 2 months ago
@mandolinic if you think that's the faulty one, you sir are trying to use common sense and not logic. And human common sense is incredibly faulty when trying to apply it logic.
Sanquinity 2 months ago
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Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
"...which one of us has the bluest eyes and is most sexually attractive?" LMFAO
cdog9991 4 months ago
One point that he didn't really hit on is that Pascal's wager assumes 50:50 odds due to it assuming that there are only 2 variables (Christian God or NO Christian God).
In actual fact the variables would consist of every concept of God(s) ever conceived by any cult/religion, as well as every other conceivable concept of God. So you're probably a lot better off playing the lottery...
Jamieishere1 4 months ago
Pascal hedged his bets
TheDano1947 4 months ago
I have come onto this site to make one point, and that point is that I have reason to believe that "Pascal's Wager" did not come from Pascal. I say this because he was an expert on the doctrine of grace, and his writings on the subject would tell me that he would never make such a wager. The wager sounds more like it came from Jesuit, who were not Catholic
anastasia2657 4 months ago
@anastasia2657 If you're going to come here JUST to make this one point, I see no reason why you can't be challenged to defend it.
What reason do you offer for not believing that Pascal didn't author this wager? By what measure do you consider him an expert on the "doctrine of grace"? I've read his works and found him to be nothing of the sort. Why do you claim Jesuits were not Catholic?
You seem to have a unique view of the topic and I'm curious as to how you came to your conclusions.
ciaochowbella 4 months ago
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Lots of confused, misleading discussion in this rant. Since most of you deny the existence of God anyway, why now attempt to malign Him with unjustly condemning pple. Isn't this exactly what one might expect from intolerance- always omit the salient facts of His justice, mercy and purity. God will certainly judge righteously; faith says pple will get what they deserve.YES, the likes of rapists, murderers,thieves, slave-traders,robbers,greedy hypocrites,etc.. will go to Hell-but pple choose HELL
shieldsff 5 months ago
It is a fact that many philosophers like pascal and newton were extremely religious, its the politics of the age, people shouldn't get offended by it, they should just accept their scientific and mathematical contributions, and ignore the rest if it upsets them so much.
TWToxicity 5 months ago
sound fail. 100% volume to even hear this.
worktosser 5 months ago
Pascal was an enemy of Probabilism. Sounds like you have studied Christianity from the atheists. The atheists do not believe in God because it cannot be proven in nature. It requires faith, and faith comes with grace, that the atheists do not get. Pascal knew that better than anyone. Frankly, I'm surprised this "wager" was something that Pascal would even bother to present to the unbelievers. It is clever, but he knew that as reasonable as it is, the atheists would never buy it.
anastasia2657 5 months ago
@anastasia2657 Pascals wager is a false dichotomy. That right there takes out the idea of it being brilliant or clever. It's also based on the idea that there is no harm in "believing" and that's not true. If this is the only life we get any amount of time spent worshiping something that isn't there and any dime that is spent in deference to a god is wasted. Also, just because you've decided to believe in one particular god doesn't mean you've voided the hell of some other god.
garrettwarren2 5 months ago
@garrettwarren2 The only thing "harmed" by their belief in God is their overweening pride. But atheists are the first people to "believe" in such things as "dinosaurs." They do not research into the history of the matter. They simply "believe" it. And it is not because God told them to believe it, but because some earthly liars told them to believe it.
anastasia2657 5 months ago
@anastasia2657
And the time wasted praying, the bigoted beliefs against other groups, any money they have given to a church, and the falsehoods they have helped to slow progress.
No, because we have evidence of dinosaurs existence, we have fossils of them that we can date back.
I'm going to accept things by scientists of faith regularly, but the results they produce are undeniable. I can't tell you how a satellite works, but I've seen the results of what it does.
GarethandSarah 5 months ago
@anastasia2657 What Pascal never mentioned is the fact that other religions and other versions of hells exist. Assuming you're a Christian, you might get sent to the Muslim hell, Hindu hell, etc. if you're wrong about other religions. I'm not sure how Pascal's Wager could be "clever" if it doesn't even take into account of this simple fact. In my opinion, it's a simple tactic to lure non-thinking gullible people into believing what he believed.
gupsphoo 5 months ago
@gupsphoo Pascal knew that a person could not believe in God if God did not give them the grace to believe in Him. He also knew that God did not give his grace to all, but only some. In other words, he would have known that this Wager could not be accepted by those not given the needed grace to believe, , and for that reason, I tend not to believe ithat the Wager written about came from Pascal, and if it did come from him, it may have been a half-serious remark.
anastasia2657 5 months ago
@anastasia2657 I notice that you did not even address the problem of multiple religions at all. It's pretty obvious that you can't even think outside your box.
gupsphoo 5 months ago
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pat5168 5 months ago
@anastasia2657 If your god is as loving as you say it is. Than it would judge eternal bliss or damnation based on the actions made in their life. I would like to think that if you lived a good life and left a positive legacy, than you should go to the heaven you speak of regardless of belief. If you lived a mostly bad life and left a negative legacy, than I would like to think they would go to your proposed hell, regardless of faith. Grace has nothing to do with accepting an unsupported idea.
pat5168 5 months ago
@anastasia2657 Well that's an interesting take. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't god make us all sinners. So what reason would he not then give all sinners grace? Your position is non-sensical.
spmcd2011 4 months ago
@spmcd2011 Look, I am reciting the Church's teachings. Pascal was an expert on the doctrine of grace, no one knew it like him, and that is why I doubt that he made a "Pascal's Wager", as they call it. . It may be that a Jesuit made such a wager, but not Pascal and I have absolutely no desire to engage in a argument with you about religion. It is clear you know nothing about it and I feel confident that you will not be looking into the matter.
anastasia2657 4 months ago
@spmcd2011 God made us all sinners" . If you know anything at all about God, or even the most elementary concept of Him, just think about that statement you just made. It is clear you do not know the first thing about God, who He is or anything else, and I feel confident to predict tha tyou will not be looking into the matter. .
anastasia2657 4 months ago
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ciaochowbella 4 months ago
@ciaochowbella No, I am not implying it. I am saying it. What you have said already tells me what you have read. I would suggest you talk to Christopher Hitchens about yours and his readings.
anastasia2657 4 months ago
@anastasia2657 You have NO IDEA what I've read. However, I notice that you completely ignored the questions I asked in order to be presumptuous and change the subject, so I'll ask again.
How do you know about the nature of god? If so, where did you get this knowledge? As a supposedly infinite, unknowable being beyond human comprehension, I'm curious as to how you would know god. Do you have a hotline to god? How do you know you're worshipping the correct deity? What if you wrong?
ciaochowbella 4 months ago
@anastasia2657 You have NO IDEA what I've read. However, I notice that you completely ignored the questions I asked in order to be presumptuous and change the subject, so I'll ask again.
How do you know about the nature of god? Where did you get this knowledge? As a supposedly infinite, unknowable being beyond human comprehension, I'm curious as to how you would know god. Do you have a hotline to god? How do you know you're worshipping the correct deity? What if you wrong about your worship?
ciaochowbella 4 months ago
@ciaochowbella Let me speak more plainly. I do not wish to answer questions about the nature of God with someone who does not even know how to spell His name. As far as Pascal is concerned, start by reading the Provincial Letters, which are renowned. Read Augustine. Read what the Dominicans said about the doctrine before the Jesuits came along. Pascal was in the front line of this battle in Christian Europe, and that is why I suspect he is not the author of "Pascal's Wager." .
anastasia2657 4 months ago
@ciaochowbella Let me speak more plainly. I do not wish to answer questions about the nature of God with someone who does not even know how to spell His name. As far as Pascal is concerned, start by reading the Provincial Letters, which are renowned. Read Augustine. Read what the Dominicans said about the doctrine before the Jesuits came along. Pascal was in the front line of this battle in Christian Europe, and that is why I suspect he is not the author of "Pascal's Wager." .
anastasia2657 4 months ago
@anastasia2657 "God" is not a name. It's a job description. The name of the Biblical god is YHWH.
You cannot know the nature of god for it is, according to Christianity, UNKNOWABLE. For you to claim you could is a lie. For you to dodge questions is a cop out.
Scholars greater than you agree that Pascal was the author of his notorious wager. Your doubts need more justification.
Again, I reiterate, how do you claim to know the nature of your god? What if you're worshipping the wrong god?
ciaochowbella 4 months ago
@ciaochowbella You again? Good night nurse
anastasia2657 4 months ago
@anastasia2657 Still afraid to answer my questions?
How typically Christian. Run away from the hard questions and the points that make you uncomfortable.
You know, if your religion was truly divine, it would stand up to the most strictest scrutiny. It wouldn't require it's followers to cherry pick, lie and "interpret", or engage in mental gymnastics to explain the atrocities, contradictions and immorality.
I thought your god gave you all you needed. Won't he give you the answers?
ciaochowbella 4 months ago 3
@ciaochowbella Put this in search engine on youtube and listen to it, and you will see there can be no argument or answer for someone like yourself.
Alan C. Kors L07 Skepticism and Jansenism - Blaise Pascal Part 1-3
anastasia2657 2 months ago
@anastasia2657 No. I asked YOU some pointed questions. Attempting to deflect them with some fatuous discussion on whether or not Pascal authored his infamous wager is beside the point.
Once again, I ask YOU, how can you claim to know the nature of your god when it is claimed to be unknowable AND what if YOU are worshipping the wrong god in accordance to Pascal's wager?
Seriously, I'm asking YOU. No one else. If I wanted to know what Lors said, I'd ask him.
ciaochowbella 2 months ago
He calls Blaise Pascal, an absolute purist, a man of the highest integrity, and one of the most intelligent men of his age, as well as our age, , is called a "huckster" by this creep?
This m an has contempt for not only God, but for everyone of us, as well..
anastasia2657 5 months ago
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garrettwarren2 5 months ago
@anastasia2657 Isn't "Pascals Wager" just an alteration of "Probability Theory" which was invented to help rich aristocrats win more money with their gambling? That doesn't really seem "of the highest integrity". He was bright for his time, sure, but his wager is based on Yahweh being real, hell being real, and heaven being real. It totally ignores all other gods, other heavens and hells, and any other possible outcomes. it seems he was bright until his "Spiritual Experience" in the mid 1600's
garrettwarren2 5 months ago
@lease2coach ""There are thousands of "possibles"; why just choose Yahweh?"" No, there are thousands of descriptions, all man made, but only one God, one divine consciousness. Your problem is with the dogmas, that is all you know, because you don't know God. Dogmas might be wrong but God is real.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
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A question for atheists. In a world where there's no proof of God's existence or of life after death; how will you explain to your children why you brought them into the world and why they should die?
QuestionForAtheists 5 months ago
Haha fuck he's a funny cunt
TheDrewpdog 5 months ago
Pascal Wager is a way to get you interested. What if... Well you will never know if you don't experience it. I was a non-believer but I kept looking and one of the reasons I kept looking was this what if probability. Now believing is one thing, and living in grace is another. When you live in grace, when you are in God's wavelength, your life is transformed. You have to be in communion with God to be saved, believing is not enough. That's why you reject the pascal wager, you don't understand.
dejesusluisx 6 months ago
@dejesusluisx I'd say Hitchens, much the same as myself, rejects Pascal's Wager because it's baseless. There's no reason to fool yourself into believing in something for which there is no evidence. Would you apply this "logic" to anything else? If not, why not?
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@badnewsBH ""because it's baseless"" it's a logical argument to weigh risk to keep you mind open, what base do you expect? The fact that it's logical should be sufficient. ""no reason to fool yourself into believing"" that's exactly what you don't understand, the argument is not for believing, is for you not to close your mind to the possibility. I apply this logic to any risk, that's why I have 401K, savings, bonds and insurance; plus nice lawyer friends. ; )
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@dejesusluisx "what base do you expect?" Evidence, personally. If there is no real reason to suspect gods even exist, why defer to them? As I said previously, do you apply that standard to anything else? You buy insurance or savings bonds in response to actual risk, based on observation of people actually needing these things.
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@badnewsBH And of course, the other issue with the wager is, which god do you worship? What if you're wrong? It's not simply a matter of the Christian god or no god. What if the Aztecs were the only people to ever worship the correct gods? What if we've *never* gotten our worship right, and the god that does exist has condemned *everyone*? Unfortunately, the Wager doesn't really solve the problem.
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@badnewsBH ""What if we've *never* gotten our worship right"" it doesn't matter the name, there's only one God, one divine consciousness you need to be in communion with. People always knew there was a God, people saw the sun and said: God is there, and gave that a name; they saw the thunder and said, aha, God is there, and gave it another name. They couldn't comprehend that one being can be everywhere. The problem isn't God, is the dogmas, some bring you closer others take you away.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@dejesusluisx Even assuming this is true, and that is by no means a given, how can we possibly know which practices and tenets are correct? This is why Pascal's Wager truly fails. It's not enough to believe that some god exists; you have to somehow determine that you're worshiping in the manner of which the actual god approves. If you aren't, then you're failing as completely as though you never believed at all.
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@badnewsBH "how can we possibly know which practices" simple: God is energy and to be in tune with an energy source, you need to be in the same wavelength, in the same way the only requirement for salvation is to be in God's wavelength. Buddhists call that be enlightened, Christians call it living in grace, Hindus call it moksha and Muslims call it Taubah. Doesn't matter which religion you choose, the road is marked in each of them. God doesn't need or want worship, the love of God means respect
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@badnewsBH ""Evidence, personally"" if the logical argument can be proved with evidence, fine, but if it can't then you need to evaluate the argument on it's merits and in the logic provided. ""why defer to them"" there's only one God, one divine consciousness that people have given different names and attributed dogmas in our desire to understand Him. ""in response to actual risk"" yes, and you use actual money to buy it. Your belief is free and if God is imaginary, it cost you lost nothing.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
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@dejesusluisx The assertion that there is only one god cannot be supported by evidence at this point, so again, we have no reason to believe it. Since we cannot know if any gods exist, it makes no sense to worship one, as we cannot be sure that we're worshiping the correct one. More importantly, I can't just believe in the existence of a deity without evidence. I don't have the ability to fool myself like that.
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@badnewsBH If I don't earnestly believe, doesn't that completely undermine the wager? I can't do it "just in case", because the god will see that I don't really believe. These problems with Pascal's Wager have been outlined and expounded upon far more eloquently than I can accomplish, especially in this limited space. Check out other videos covering this topic for much better explanations.
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@badnewsBH ""god will see that I don't really believe"" of course, so don't; but don't close yourself either. You need to keep praying, regardless, that is the only way you will keep the door open. Talk to God, ask for enlightenment and understanding and eventually God will send you a sign that only you will understand. I've seen most videos, and the objections are similar, and the basis for them are the man made dogmas. Dogmas doesn't matter if you live in grace, if you are one with God.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@badnewsBH "cannot be supported by evidence at this point" if I told you the evidence is behind a closed door, wouldn't you be willing to open the door and look? The evidence is available, but you have closed the door of your heart and mind to the possibility. Worship is not important, is being one with God, acting like Christ, what is. No one is asking you to believe hypocritically, you just need to open your mind to the possibility of God existence, despite foolish man made dogmas, God is real
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@dejesusluisx Herein lies the rub. I haven't closed my mind to the possibility. All God needs to do is show me evidence that *requires no faith* to accept. What people have called "signs" have, at best, been events that we could interpret as messages from the divine. None of this is independently verifiable as evidence of something beyond the mundane. I can feel lots of things, for lots of reasons, but none of that should be accepted as evidence of a deity on its own.
badnewsBH 5 months ago
@dejesusluisx You are so very wrong. The idea of only one began with Abraham, who grew up a polytheistic Babylonian. Nearly all early Hebrews were polythestic and slowly followed Abraham's lead. Took centuries. Christians who believe in a Trinity are doing nothing less either. Even the Torah texts refer to plural gods, as evidenced by the word Elohim, which is mistranslated as "God" in most Christian Bibles.
gvman3670 5 months ago
@gvman3670 The limitation wasn't in God's revelation, God revealed himself the only way an all powerful energy can be revealed, through our consciousness, but the goat herders living 3,000 yrs ago didn't have the same level of knowledge and understanding we have today. How can you explain relativity, quantum physics and cosmology to a 10 yr old? That was the level of knowledge, experience and abilities of the shepherds who received the revelations in the old testament compared to our standards.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@MrArpas123 Well I would hope your "loving" god doesn't judge somebody whether on something as selfish as if you simply believed in him when he gave no evidence but rather on if they lived a good life. If he doesn't, throws a hissy-fit and tells me, "How dare you not believe in ME! Off to Hell with you!" I'll be glad knowing I didn't devote my life worshiping this egocentric, narcissistic deity.
StrifeBlood 6 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
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You obviously don't know your bible . He is just telling what the bible says...Sounds to me like your issue is with God.Better think before you speak.Christians are commanded to love but they are also told to stand for that which is right!We are NOT stupid or weak like you would have your followers believe and that makes you nervous.Read the book of Revelations and you will see clearly what is going on in this world and what will happen next.Hint:We win!
roddy35wv 6 months ago
Pascal's Wager actually lead me to Atheism =^_^=
I posed myself the same question without ever hearing about Pascal (So I came up with it first damnit!)
I asked myself "What do I have to loose, just fake belief and I'll avoid hell"
My very next thought was "Wait... is the microphone on... SHIT!"
It is a pointless argument that shows us just how much of a Bully religion truly is.
Fuck you Pascal, and the horse you rode in on
BlankPicketSign 6 months ago
@BlankPicketSign lol you crazy
me700gnomes 6 months ago
@me700gnomes
=^_^=
BlankPicketSign 6 months ago
@BlankPicketSign i'm sure atheism was always around. even in ancient greek times there are quotes of philosophers stating they don't believe in zeus. it's called common sense working it's way through the bullshit.
thompson8305 6 months ago
@thompson8305
Non-Believers have existed ever sense the first superstitious belief.
We are as old as Humanity It's Self =^_^=
BlankPicketSign 6 months ago
Pascal's wager sets up a false dichotomy. One in which the only two possibilities are the Christian god who will torment us for all eternity for not worshiping him, and extinction. But what if Zeus is the true god? Should we sacrifice virgins to him just in case? (Or whatever worship of Zeus involves..) Or what if the gods of the Australian Natives are the true gods? Or a god we don't know about? So, I say go with the evidence. And there is no evidence the Christian god exists.
TheJetsilver 6 months ago
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MRafh979 6 months ago
My response has always been "But what if we're both wrong?"
TheCelticNinja 6 months ago
As Bill Hicks suggested in his stand-up, it'd be a cheap and nasty God that plays that dirty trick on us.
EnglishCanary 7 months ago
I still can't believe that any theist, worth his salt, would take Pascal's wager seriously given their model of God. If they did, they do not understand their own god's properties. Surely an omniscient god would see through their little charade.
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Futurecop2012 7 months ago
@darthelghastN7 I'm an ex fundamentalist too... same thing for me... I decide to collect evidence of existence. and found noting but bs... The Egyptian book of the dead and it's stories/myths told thousands of years before the christian myths (same story different names)... pretty much nailed the coffin lid shut :-)
ToothCentral 7 months ago
I'm thinking a truly omniscient god would get he's being worshipped as a hedged bet
pooooccurs 7 months ago 2
@pooooccurs oh, that is profound!... I was a little kid and the pascals wager is how they scared me into believing... I've since left the compound, called the midwest... and have read histories and everything I can get my hands on... and have come to the same conclusion.
ToothCentral 7 months ago
typical answer from Chris, ...
yonster99 7 months ago
@darthelghastN7 You can't see love with a microscope. It's the wrong tool for the job. There is an evidence that is not empirical. Science tells us that because something is not necessarily seen or known, does not mean that it doesn't exist. We can't see gravity, but we know its effects. You and I are both searching for meaning, otherwise we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Molecules don't search for meaning. We were created with a purpose and it is our lifelong search. Peace.
FRWHELAN 7 months ago
@FRWHELAN "Science tells us that because something is not necessarily seen or known, does not mean that it doesn't exist."
That's a piss-poor understanding of science. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Stop pretending that science, the greatest human endeavor, succumbs to basic logical fallacies the way you do. You need to read more than one book, and go to facilities with more teachers and less preachers.
ChaseKittens 7 months ago
@ChaseKittens Science is constantly discovering things we didn't know before. So, the best scientist will always keep an open mind so that his biases don't inhibit his study. AND science does succumb to logical fallacies. Happens all the time. Why? Scientists are human-Humans are susceptible to errors-Therefore, science is susceptible to errors. But if the belief that scientists are infallible is a doctrine of yours, then I will not attack your religious beliefs out of ecumenism. Peace!
FRWHELAN 7 months ago
@FRWHELAN I'm sorry; I completely misunderstood your comment! :)
ChaseKittens 7 months ago
My wager: You should spend your life training for marathons because when you die, cerberus will chase you. If i am wrong, then you suffered a small loss. If i am right, you saved your eternal soul. So stop worshipping God and put those running shoes on Mr. Pascal.
meanlittledog 7 months ago 39
@meanlittledog "You should spend your life training for marathons" I like it! plus, think how much weight you'll lose! So, Americans, start running! Besides, Satan ran track in high school
eastjones 4 months ago
@meanlittledog brilliant, utterly brilliant.
this is one i wont ever forget. i hope you wont mind me plagiarising it every couple of weeks for the rest of my life.
volound 3 months ago 4
@darthelghastN7 Oh, by the way, my 16 year old son just noticed that you said that the brain "was made for" something. He wants to know: Who made it and why? Don't you mean evolved randomly from chaos and thus it has no purpose other than that which I choose to give it? Sounds like a contradiction. You cant subscribe to relativity and abiogenesis and then start telling people that things are good,bad, vile,contradictory or have specific meaning or functions. Its all chaos....
FRWHELAN 7 months ago
@darthelghastN7 Delusion is only temporarily comfortable. How about the heart? You can deny that as well. We are more than a brain Mr. Spock. Living by intellect alone makes you more than an animal...but not fully human. Computers don't write poetry, love, become moved at the sight of beauty or dream of a better world. Use your brain, certainly, but allow your heart to play it's role as well. It can be painful, but you might see there's far more to this world than dead molecules. Peace!
FRWHELAN 7 months ago
@darthelghastN7 Used it to do what?
FRWHELAN 7 months ago
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@darthelghastN7
No atheism is always opposed to true education.
Religion on the other hand has created countless places of learning.
Have you really never heard of Duke?
ivlfounder 7 months ago
The defence of Pascal's Wager is you have nothing to lose, and likely nothing to gain; so, believe in God because there's no hurt in it. Well, that maybe true, except the only thing you can gain is a severe downgrade of your intellectual argument. But who cares about that argument when you're dead?
bearmare 7 months ago 2
"A Rational Person and/or Atheist doesn't call what is beyond his Intelligence & Knowledge a "God", he views it as a place to Explore and Learn; NOT Worship or Pray To."
- Me
mechanicmike69 8 months ago 52
@mechanicmike69
LMAO who the fuck quotes themselves hahahaa
pouyamakki1 7 months ago
@ivlfounder You say no historian or scientist has ever said they were false, you are completely wrong again. As the telescope and microscope have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they are full of simply myths, superstitions and ancient ignorance. Ancient ignorance that you claim to be correct. More proof you are a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
you ignored the word legit. mikey.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder You accuse me of ignoring one word? WTF, you ignore massive amounts of reality to chase your illogical delusional moronic beliefs. You are a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
It's a rather important word give the context.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder You ignore intelligence, logic and reason, you do not have a foundation to stand on. You are a delusional fucking moron. Who once again resorts to "attack the messenger" or attack the semantics, and ignore everything else of substance. I did not ignore 'legit" by the way as I know you only accept facts that match your perception and discard facts that do not. So your 'legit' scientists will be only ones from religious colleges (FACT). You are once again a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Logic and reason have never interested you mike.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder You wish that were true, as it would be your only saving grace, but it's not. So boo hoo to you.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Were you interested in either you would at some point have asked why I believe in God.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder The minute I saw you claiming Jefferson was a christian, I knew for a fact you were a delusional fucking moron. Only a god deluded idiot would have an agenda to do so. I don't need to know why you believe, I know the fact that you do, proves you are a delusional fucking moron. It is that easy. It is that plain and simple. It is why any one equipped with any logic and reason will immediately know you are full of it. You are a delusional fucking moron. It's a fact.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
"religious colleges" are always a bad thing?
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder Religious colleges bad? almost always, when myths and superstitions are more important than fact, logic and reason, they are. When creationism is taught as a science, when it is not, they are bad. When theology trumps intelligence (like you) they are bad. You are a delusional fucking moron. Virtually everything you believe is provably false.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
I guess that horrible Duke University is a bad place.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder is that all you got? pathetic.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
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@mechanicmike69
I guess that horrible Drew University is a bad place.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
lol
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder You would laugh at reality, You delusional fucking moron. You have no counterpoint. Duke university is not a "religious college'. You lose once again.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@ivlfounder Its website states that although it maintains Christian affiliations, it does not expect a totally Christian student body. There is a beautiful church on the campus, but attendance is not compulsory and most students do not attend on any given Sunday. I cannot imagine anyone staying away from Duke because of its religious connection. It certainly has no religious requirements for students or faculty. You delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Oh but it is a religious college lol who's delusional now?
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder It was, but now the divinity school, as Harvard and Yale have done, is totally separate from the real curriculum. You are a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Uhuh and who owns Duke University?
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder Religious college is different then a religiously financed college, so once again your point is moot. . Besides you still miss the point, as usual, they don't teach creationism as a science. Only deluded religious morons think creationism is a science. They don't teach theology over reality, they even separated the two, as they have their Duke Divinity School separate from the main curriculum. What happened to no more posts from you? Are you a liar? You delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
"Religious college is different then a religiously financed college"
According to who? You? ROTFL!
ivlfounder 8 months ago
@ivlfounder You are arguing over what a religious college is and you don't understand, this has nothing to do with your god is make believe. Your point is moot and does nothing to prove your delusion is true. You once again went way off on some piece of trivia that has nothing at all to do with; your god does not exist. You are a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@mechanicmike69
Awwwww does it upset you to know how many great colleges are owned by Churches?
ivlfounder 8 months ago
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@ivlfounder Actually it upsets you as it doesn't prove your god exists. You still miss the point, you are living a delusion. You are a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@ivlfounder You really are a delusional fucking moron.
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
0 proof of theism.
0 proof for deism*
(* = the argument from ignorance doesn't count! i.e. we don't know so god did it. ) agnostics/atheists prefer to say that the variable "X" did/caused it.
nazmibest 8 months ago
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youneekk 8 months ago
Infallible moral rectitude
breaneainn 8 months ago
There is a god, his name is Christopher Hitchens.
blarson12 8 months ago
Pascals wager exemplifies a lot of what is typical of religion - the fear of the unknown and the calculated cowardly mentality it has towards it. The fact that some theists (or ANY human being who has though about it for more than 2 minutes) would find this a compelling argument is to me nothing less than astonishing - and equal parts appalling. It is either the thinking of a dishonest coward, or of a person who has been mentally conditioned to think like one from a young age.
TheStigma 8 months ago 27
@TheStigma Pascal's Wager- the condensed version "Kiss God's ass just in case instead of standing firm in your convictions."
Macrochenia 8 months ago 2
@TheStigma Well said. Kudos to you. :)
mechanicmike69 8 months ago
@TheStigma If you live by Pascal's wager, you don't really have faith now do you? Lke most Christians I know I did not come to faith because of Pascal's wager. I had a real encounter with the living God. And I couldn't help but love Him.
FRWHELAN 8 months ago
@FRWHELAN You will find no argument from me on that point. Obviously, even if there were such thing as a god, then you could not fake belief in him to gain the rewards - which is basically what Pascals wager entails. It is nice to see that some theists too can see the gaping holes in this logic. If anything I would think it would be most offensive to people who actually believe in god - as you are basically being advised to try to cheat the system.
TheStigma 8 months ago
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scotttebben 7 months ago 2
Live life as if there is a judgement day and only then will humanity come to one and unite. If I as a believer am right, then you are in big trouble, if you as a atheist is right, then I've got nothing to worry about. At the end of the day I've lived a good humble warm and ethical life, the atheist has lived a life stumbling in the dark in a empty life.
hudfadz 8 months ago
@hudfadz
LOL. How about them crusades? Or those two towers and that pentagon? And what about the other 1000 religions that could be correct? Crusades and 9/11 and worshiping a god evil and cruel enough to torture forever is definitely not ethical. If I was god I would reward the atheists for being intelligent and thinking for themselves and not reward theists for being gullible and believing out of fear.
SexyArcanine666 8 months ago
@SexyArcanine666 It is a demonic fallacy that God will torture anyone forever. This was adopted some Christians who were eager to appear smart to the secular world and who gave up Bible truth to follow Greek philosophy. Athenegoras and Tertullian were the leaders in this. Read: helltruthDOTcom
God WILL reward people in all views who sincerely follow truth and use their minds. The big problem though is that most atheists indisputably do NOT do this and they fight and deny vast evidence.
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@SexyArcanine666 It is also stupid lunacy that most theists believe out of fear...utterly idiotic foolishness.
However, there is nothing wrong at all with rewarding people for doing what is right and punishing what is wrong. No nation could function without doing that and neither can the universe. God's problem is that if sin abuse, torture, rape, etc. continues forever, that's a hell worse than ANYTHING he desires. God's hell is a short act of justice to end suffering forever.
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
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Atheism is my Shepard I shall not know GOD,He makes me lay down in Godless places,he leads me beside shrill
liars,he destroys my soul,He leads me in the path of wrongness,for his own
sake,yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear
no evil for he is with me , it's all a delusion he prepares a table for me
nothing is on it,he anoints my head with arrogance my cup is full surely
emptiness shall follow me all the days of my life a grave awaits me
majorl311 8 months ago
Atheism isnt a religion? Its just a disbelief in fairy tales and credulity. The only reason Hitchens and Dawkins are ramming home this point is to raise awareness to how much religion is creeping back since the enlightenment. They hate dogma and just want people to be pragmatic and critical of unfounded claims. The most sound advice you could give. I dont want to go back to the dark ages thanks.
charjessiesmith 8 months ago
"I'll take your Pascal's wager and raise you a Russell's Teapot!"...a bumper sticker I saw that had me laughing endlessly.
MomOfThreeCats 8 months ago 2
@MomOfThreeCats Funny bumper sticker...good for a laugh, but nothing more. Pascal's wager is very powerful and strong logic and conclusively confirmed while Russell's teapot argument is a fallacy that would make many real peole in the history and present that we know do exist, non-existent.
For Pascal's Wager, see this video&esp. the updates in the notes
watch?v=2UmnWQ1c4Pw
It's been confirmed even by sole fact that following the Bible adds 10+ years to life (see my Bible health playlist)
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 I don't know where your "fact" comes from, but it's actually quite the opposite. Do you have a reference for your study claiming this fact? And, just fyi, there are correlations abound within countries that have more socialistic governments, higher number of agnostics/atheists and better quality of and longer life, less violence, etcetera. Check out the Netherlands to start with. When you live in fear, life isn't prolonged...and it's certainly not as enjoyable.
MomOfThreeCats 8 months ago
@MomOfThreeCats My facts come from primary sources and research across the spectrum. On some topics, I have 1000s of files citing research or data of different kinds. On the Bible health science, there are MANY studies on up to 100,000 people verifying this. National Geographic, Blue Zones, the NIH, NCI and many other secular organizations verify it. See videos #1-3 here for secular confirmation and #4-6 for an overview of the Bible principles.
view_play_list?p=DF491C31BC08BEE4
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 "My facts come from primary sources and research across the spectrum. On some topics, I have 1000s of files citing research or data of different kinds."
believing, no matter how hard, does not make it true, and factual.
read the Egyptian book of the dead... and if you can't see same story's different names... just keep drinking the koolaid. there is not hope for ya.
ToothCentral 7 months ago
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Partial list of diabolical "missing link" frauds, presented by Satanists posing as scientists:
1913-53 Piltdown Man HOAX, Diabolical Manufactured Planted Evidence
Nebraska Man, Discarded Pigs Tooth
Peking Man, Conglomeration of Co-Mingled Fossils
Lucy, Manipulated Fossil Using Plaster
Orce Man, 4 Month Old Donkey Bone
2009 Ida, Grossly Unsupportable Classification
2010 Sebida, equivelant of a deceased PetsMart Gerbil
*core studies for Evolution, taxidermy, playdough, donkeykong
waketheoblivious 8 months ago
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Emanresu56 8 months ago
But, note that I'm criticizing a system. There are some admirable individuals in any system who deserve respect. But, esp. since atheism makes no claims, there is no possibility for it to contribute anything of value to human life and progress. Almost by definition it contributes nothing. While the Bible has indisputably contributed enormous amounts to human life. See my Bible health playlist for how the Bible health principles add ~10+ years to life, confirmed by many secular organizations.
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 Well you are right in that Atheism itself contributes nothing...but neither does any religion. It is the people of these groups who do the contributing. And any poll will show you that atheists are much more likely to contribute more to society than religious people.
thegegors 8 months ago
@thegegors It is categorically false that religion contributes nothing. Read the quote on my profile. It is also absolutely false that atheists are more likely to contribute more to society than religious people. There are some that do for sure. But, Christians have built infinitely more hospitals and schools, pioneered far more scientific fields as well as Occam's razor and the modern scientific method itself, campaigned and sacrificed in countless human rights campaigns and so MUCH more.
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 If by contributed enormous amounts to human life you mean negative things, then yes, you are correct.The fact that we have to interpret the bible means that the morals are secular and people mistakenly give the credit to the bible.The bible, however, gives people a 'reason' to act immorally. Steven Weinberg sums it up well, "With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
thegegors 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 Also, need I link prison statistics by religion to show the clear correlation between religion and crime? Now, to be clear, there are several mitigating factors but there is no way you can look at the huge proportional lack of atheists in prisons and say, religion is a great moral teacher. At best it doesn't hurt but more than likely the bible is a strong gateway 'drug' to immoral behavior. For, if the bible is accurate, God has been the greatest mass murder of all time.
thegegors 8 months ago
Do you not realize that a list is NOT any sort of scientific evidence whatsoever? There are lists showing there are more black people in prison than white and you could make all sorts of lists showing that there are more people with bigger hands and longer big toes and whatever. Does black skin and big toes make people commit crimes? It's astounding that so many atheists are duped by this stupidity that has NOTHING to do with any science whatsoever. Do you even know what control groups are??
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 Well first off, it is still scientific evidence. What you mean to say, and i agree with, is that it does not prove causality. Second, The proportion of black people vs white people in jail does not even come close to the proportion of religious vs non religious. But still, as i said in my original post, there are mitigating factors, and i wish i could find a study using control groups. I never said Atheism leads to good behavior, just that the bible doesn't either.
thegegors 8 months ago
@thegegors No, a list is not scientific evidence. To be scientific you have to do some kind of scientific method process or at least do interviews, ask questions, make predictions, look for confirmations, etc. Just making up a list has never been scientific method in any way. You can make percentages in all sorts of ways...for example the percentage of caucasians in prison's is ~25%. So non-caucasians are ~75%..similar to the % of Christians. You could also make a list by weight/bulk, etc.
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@thegegors No, the Bible has indisputably contributed far more good to human society than any other worldview. Weinbergs quote is totally ignorant and stupid. You only need to look at all 22 states where atheism was the state religion to see that it's nonsense. Atheists states killed 30 times more people in just 1 century than all religions, even false ones did in ALL history. There are admirable atheist individuals, but atheist states have been the biggest enemies of freedom&life in history.
TruthIsLife7 8 months ago
@TruthIsLife7 Most fascist and extremely communist countries dont claim an official religion but do so to set up their society in a religious sense by making their leader into a godlike figure and claiming their country has some inherent superiority to others. And i can do the same thing you did but turn it around. If you look at current countries, you will notice a strong positive trend in atheism vs standards of living. The U.S. is actually an outlier here.
thegegors 8 months ago