Obama is selling us out to the Chinese...capitulating our greatness in an effort to earn that Nobel prize for not being Bush. Sadly, the 8 Presidents before him who dealt with China were of a much higher moral fiber and character. He has less foreign policy experience than I do. That he is so willing to sell his country down the river is unprecidented...not even Carter was this openly hostile to his own countrymen. Shame on Obama, and Shame on us for electing him.
Capitulating your greatness? What, because he didn't adopt the typical petty, obnoxious, uneducated American village attitude of, in Mark Twain's style,
"ah am a goddamn white American, don't got much education but I know ma rights and so ah can go on cussin', hatin', and disrespectin' other peoples and cultures."
Because he actually talked sensibly and not like a small village idiot you think he is capitulating?
You're useless. "Petty/obnoxious/uneducated"? Did Nixon abdicate our moral authority or world standing when he traveled to China? Did Regan at Rejavik, or Berlin? As a veritable neophyte compared to the vast majority of men who served as POTUS, he's showing his ineptitude. Also, Obama's contempt for US foreign policy protocols exacerbates his lack of foreign policy saavy. The new question isnt WWJD, or Who would Reagan bomb...it's Who would Obama bow to? Our POTUS is laughable, not me.
If you think you can blame Obama's incompetence on debt, then it's You who's out of touch w/reality. What's got the Chinese upset is that Obama is flooding world markets w/worthless paper money, and refuses to stop Gietner and Bernanke from printing more and more, which is why they're selling off their position(slowly) and buying Gold(w/our $s). I used to think this was part of his plan to destroy our civil society, now I understand that he's merely the most incompetent man ever elected POTUS.
I'm sorry...did the person who started out his argument with ad hominem: "Ah'm a stupid fuckin' redneck, he-haw..." (or whatever) just accuse me of logical fallacy? That I have drawn comparisons between statesmanship and trans-global cock-sucking...is that what upsets you so?
China is merely going to wait Obama out. In 4 years Hu will still be there, but Obama will be a memory. You want non-sequitors? Katy Couric has even turned on your petite engenue...NOBODY thinks this Asia trip went well.
2. I claimed that Bush is conservative, the reason being his staunchest support comes from conservatives in this country. They agreed with his plans and policies. You may disagree, but that would put you outside mainstream conservative views in this country.
3. The world is tired of "American style conservatism", as characterized by the leader of this movement (bush) in recent years. That is why so many former allies are abandoning America's international cause.
Bush wasn't a fiscal conservative by any means. Every time he tried to reign in spending, Democrats on the Hill had kittens, and He cave in to them. I never saw a man try so hard to be liked by his enemies than GW...what a fool. Where his support came from is irrelevent, he was a fiscal liberal. His only saving grace was that he made hard choices on foreign policy. BTW whose cock would Obama have sucked if he were POTUS on 9/11? "'Cuz he sur wudna gon to war over a buncha dead white people"
I have stated 1, 2, 3. If you want to disagree, show A,B,C which directly contradicts the statements as worded in 1,2,3. Don't give me 4,5,6 which has no bearing on 1,2,3 and use it as a contradiction.
By the way, I am a economics PhD student in one of America's best universities. I am not trying to say this to oppress you in the dialogue, but I want to let you know that, as a layman, you don't know enough about what you are saying.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I made the opening statement...to which you replied "Ah am a God Damned White American, cussin' and a feudin' and a fuckin' ma sister..." remember? Any courtesy shown subsquent to that has been more than you deserved(since Im certain no apology is coming). The fact remains his shortcomings are as glaring as his unworthiness as a Nobel Laureate. Mohandis Ghandi didnt measure up but Obama does? He should chain himself to his desk and try to do some actual work.
haha...look man, I never called or intentionally called YOU a redneck. You are reading between the lines. I have nothing against southerners. I was just "caricaturizing" a general cultural phenomenon, one that was embodied in Dubya, who was the leader of America.
But with that said, please understand THAT is how most of the world perceived America, especially during King Dubya's reign.
If you somehow took my comments personally I do apologize.
1. I read between the lines: "typical, petty, obnoxious uneducated America..." and ".. small village idiot".
2. I'm from NJ.
3. Bush was a Yale man he wasnt stupid.
4. You recite the Liberal/Islamist narrative like a pro, our true allies(without agendas or BIG skeletons) trusted him. Toppling 2 regimes he freed more Muslims from tryranny than any man in history. You may deny that, but history wont. Weve spent decades Saving Muslims.
5. I didnt take it personally, but I do judge you by that.
1. Why, do you think this description actually fits you? I never said that or suggested it, but if you agree, then perhaps you should change?
2. And I am from CT.
3. Bush was a Yale man through "Old boy" connections, and he was a straight C student there. At Yale, nearly all classes are curved to a B+, nobody gets Cs. Unless you don't do anything, or curse at your professor to his face, there is no way you can get a C. A "C" at Yale is a F- at any other university.
As I said, I dont think it fits me, I dont take it personally, and I judge you a lying elitist twit for what you said, Mr. YouTube PHD. A million brave American Soldiers died so ytou could be free to cast aspersions on American culture. Fell free to denigrate yourself all you want. We dont know what grades you Messi-uh got because every record from his past is sealed...every one. Judging by his books, he was also a C student(at best) Judging his foreign policy he flunked out of Madrassa.
Every record from his Birth Certificate(All records regarding him were sealed by the Gov. of Hawaii), to his Immigration Records, to his Entire Record from High School to Columbia to Harvard are sealed. All we know is that Khalid Mansour and Price Al Walid bin Saud helped with tuition. (Walid is best rembered for having a check thrown back in his face by then-mayor Rudy Giulianni after saying in effect 9/11 was America's fault) Seems like everyone we Do know Obama hung out with is a Creep.
Fra. Ger. and Rus. were against invading Iraq we found because they were deep in business w/Saddam, and the invasion exposed the biggest swindle in world history(oil for food) which they were a part of. Everyone from GB, to China either liked, respected, or feared Bush. He commanded respect because he was willing and able to make decisions. Obama simply decides not to decide. As a YouTube PHD, you should know your place and dont argue foreign policy with your betters. Im just getting started.
Dubious? Is that how you refer to the vast amount of knowlegde you Don't have? If it isnt in your tiny little coy-pond of experience, it must be dubious anecdotes from the vast unknown ocean. There's You... and then there's the rest of the world. Obama lies...and YT PHDs like you swear to it. Well...Obama shames us while attempt to glorify himself. That makes him a creep in my eyes. Unworthy of the votes he received, unworthy of the laurels, unworthy of our respect. 2012 cant come soon enough.
YouBoob PHD, halfwits like you follow the narrative that the world would be a better place had Geo. Bush died, well let's see: Would Talibanistan be a better place? Would Iraqis be better off? Saddam killed an average 42,000 anually in Abu Ghraib prison. He was committing genocide on his own people, as were the Taliban. Now is it that you Like Mass Graves, Stonings, and dissidents fed alive into industrial shredders? Do you enjoy watch handcuffed men thrown off of 4 story buildings? Is That it?
Is it your preference like most bleeding heart liberal to point at the suffering, blame corporate America for letting it happen, and launch a few cruise missiles to make it look like youre trying to help. In Iraq Obama stepped into a situation where the war was won already. Let's see how long it takes him to mess That up. Remember his campaign slogan "I have a plan for Afghanistan"? Turns out he was lying. History will remember Obama as a weaker, more incompetent version of Jimmy Carter.
Finally, I definitely don't believe Dubya was a good president, nor the idea that America could ever go back to the good ol' 50s or 80s conservatism (a la Reagan). America was strong during those days not because of better policies but because of the international community's weakness in general.
With that said, I don't think Obama is a great president either. He is a charismatic speaker, but too unrealistic. The U.S. can not accomplish everything he proposed in his 4 year presidency.
Their is only one Superpower in the world and that's us. The perception of our demise is a construct of the Liberal media. There is the Bear, The Dragon, and The Eagle...all the rest pretend they are equals. I cant wait to hear you equivocate about cultures...That will be the comedy portion of this discussion. Do you think Obama will bow to the King of Norway or Sweden next trip? At least Bush didnt grovel. And dont you fucking dare try to equivocate Obama's foreign policy with Reagan's!
Now this comment is just humorous. Personally I can't predict whether Obama will bow down to the King of Norway or Sweden, I hope he doesn't. But given America's current international image, perhaps such acts are necessary.
Tell you what, instead of trying to take on international politics and economics, why don't you try to improve the economics and politics within your own town? Start there. Organize something, if you see unemployed people there, try to figure out a way to get them working.
Our image with whom? Uncivilized brutes and elitist Socialist prigs? Jealous despots? I guess our post-Indonesia Tsunami and post-Pakistani earthquake responses along with the largest amount ever sent to Africa for AIDS really left a bad impression on the rest though. I'm sending you a link to a NY TIMES Op Ed: "America vs The Narrative"...Read it because it decribes your rhetoric and where it came from. It's time for You to grow up. America Is better than the rest of the world...to you chagrin.
"Our image with whom? Uncivilized brutes and elitist Socialist prigs? Jealous despots? I guess our post-Indonesia Tsunami and post-Pakistani earthquake responses along with the largest amount ever sent to Africa for AIDS really left a bad impression on the rest though. "
Don't generalize about things you don't know. Uncivilized brutes?
Now that's showing balls, I must say. Shall we discuss these issues in depth? Let's start with this question: What POTUS has given the most money to Africa to fight AIDs?
Then let's try this: What country gave the most money and comfort, who was basically the backbone of the Indonesian Tsunami rescue? Hedre's a hint:Anchors Aweigh My Frind. Dont you fucking dare try to belittle the thing America is most known for. It is our CHARITY that makes U.S. the "Good Neighbor" to the world.
I think you bought the Liberal/Islamist Narrative Hook, Line, and Sinker. Next you'll want to expound on how if we didnt support Israel all our troubles with the Muslim world would dissappear. Would any of the countries we liberated in WWII disagree? would you like to search out the dollar amounts the US Govt. gives in Charitable Aid(not military) compared to the rest of the world? Then do private charity per capita. That's American Wheat and Rice They are eating in Gaza. We feed the Arab World.
For a "PHD"(I'm pretty sure everyone on YT is), you really dont know much. Also, you have a much higher opinion of yourself, than you do your countrymen. The only "redneck" in this conversation has been you, apparently. You didn't follow the link I sent you either. Oh well, I'll just go back to my bible and guns and cling to them, like the POTUS said us "Igniant wite folks do..." Think about that you unworthy snob, while my nephews fight in distant lands. Bless them...Damn your ignorance.
1. I don't have a PhD yet, but I am close in finishing my thesis. I don't know everything, but I know more than you...about things in my field.
In fact, I have been trying to teach u.
2. There are many village idiots in our country who, perhaps due to excessive encouragements in their lower level educational experience, fail to realize that their opinions are wholly unqualified. I discriminate against these people not all of my "countrymen".
Im calling Bullshit right here. Youre an elitist snob who knows exactly Nothing about foreign policy, you voted for Obama because you thought it would be "cool" and he gave good speech you tool. You know as much about FP as Obama does, and thats gotten him ridiculed by every world leader there is(including himself) I daRE you to ask me for specifics...I Dare you. If you're a Doctoral student, I'm James Madison. Those bumpkins you "discriminate" against become Soldiers. On their behalf: Fuck You.
That's me: "ahm a stupid fuckin redneck American...just cussin' an a feudin'" Somewhere in there I found the time to help liberate Kuwait..."Then ah went and fucked ma sister"...You little fuckwit, you dont know the first thing about the world-ecept that Americans are uncultured morons compared to You. Come on fuck-stick...let's go episode by episode since Jan. 21st and I'll show you what he did, how it was perceived, and how each case progressed. What situation HASNT Obama made worse?
3. Am I a "redneck"? Well the definition of a redneck is a "working class white person, esp. a politically reactionary one from a rural area." I am neither, so no.
4. I did look at that article. Here is my question for you. * Again, why do you think the arabs think or have the same opinion of things as conservatives like you? * Why should they hold the same opinions? And if they don't, why won't YOU allow them to have their own culturally derived opinions?
I only need to answer point #4, because with that question, you illustrate your complete naive ignorance. "What's wrong with a little Muslim culture?" you whine...Well, it's their culturally held believe that they should fight us until we either convert, become their slaves in an Islamic society(dhimmis), or die. I fucking beg you to differ with me. What you have here is a man who spent 9/11 decontaminating evacuees from lower Manhattan, and every day since studying Islam, and World History.
Your counterpart in Iraq did the same thing on date XXX cleaning the dead bodies of children killed from in-discriminant U.S./Israeli bombing. They also studied U.S. History and have now become terrorists. Holding similar irrational, passionate views as you. They would prob. say "on behalf of all muslim bumpkins who became terrorists/suicide bombers: fuck YOU."
I want to thank you for your help at 9/11. My father worked in the World Trade Center.
You want to equivocate Iraq with 9/11? BTW, I see you Did manage to add Israel to your rendition of the Narrative...With "Israelis bombing Iraqi children." Meanwhile par for the apolgist course, you completely ignor the fact that for each "Iraqi Civilian" we indiscriminately bombed...The "Fedayeen" killed over 100. Just last week in Pakistan 40 or so were killed in 1 attack, 17 of them kids. Hundreds of Muslims are dying every week at the hands of your Muslim heros...Fuck them, And you.
Why do you think they should hold the same definition of "modernism" as you? Is that democratic? Isn't that an attack on Islamic culture and way of life? Suppose the Taliban came to your town in NJ and demanded all men to wear beards and women to cover themselves and to abide by Islamic law, calling it "modernism", would you agree?
The Baathists, despite their sins, kept the peace between the Shiites and Sunnis. During Saddam's reign there were no sectarian strife. Now there is.
So then the Muslim may(does) indeed define Islamic modernity as;better suicide vests-better explosives and detonators-instantly transmitted kill orders worldwide-and as we saw in the case of last year's Thankgiving Slaughter in Mumbai-constant connectivity and cellular coordination...something like that? Now riots can be coordinated worldwide within hours(which they are) and press coverage is immediate-You didnt think illiterate Paks. and Indonesians Miracled those signs into Enlish...did you?
"So then the Muslim may(does) indeed define Islamic modernity as;better suicide vests-better explosives and detonators-instantly transmitted kill orders..."
I own 3 transliterations and have probably read them through 4 or 5 times. I've read the Quran chronologically holding It in one hand, and Sirat Rasul Allah(the Sira) in the other. The entire Sahih Bukhari/Muslim(surfname) Hadith collection are available online at USC MSA Compendium online-I've read Them + The Hadith Qudsu(considered 2d only to Quran in divinity), and have a better understanding of Islam than most Muslims-I can quote chapter and verse extemporaniously IN CONTEXT. Ask a question.
members of a radical muslim minority bombed America partly because of people like you forcing them to change their preferred way of life.
I think if the Taliban tried to force the KKK to adopt muslim ways...through harsh methods, the KKK would bomb some large mosque in the Middle East too. In fact, that is exactly what King Dubya did.
The 9/11 "Brigades" as they like to refer to them were middle and upper middle class Arabs who never wanted for a thing in their lives. OBL was the son of a multi-billionaire who CHOSE the life he leads. They All chose to go to war. They did so for ideological reasons, not economic. OBL declared war on Saudi Arabia for allowing a foreign army(US) on it's soil. He declared war on US in 1997 quoting Surah At Tawba verse 5 in his declaration. An Islamist's "preferred way of life" is Jihad...cont
So according to your twisted morals, the 9/11 Attacks came as a result of "King Dubya" bombing some "large mosque in the MiddleEast"-Which mosque would that have been Mr YouTube PHD, The Golden Mosque in Samarra possibly? Shall I tell you what my nephew Jim related to me about his months on patrol in that very city? What you are doing is spewing forth the Arab-Muslim Narrative, nothing more-You are uniformed, and indoctrinated. Your similes lack substance and show you to be what I said you were.
You first...I asked you: According top you 9/11 was a retaiation for Bush bombing a large mosques in the M-E...Which mosque, The Golden Mosque in Samarra? We'll get to rest after you answer. Read your comment above where you equivocated KKK/Taliban, and answer my direct question, then I'll discuss whichever nephew you wish.
If you can think of a way to mobilize all the laid off, unemployed people in your neighborhood into doing something economically productive, and if every town in America could do the same thing, America would be out of the recession and Obama wouldn't have to bow down to other worldly leaders.
Think about things that way. Don't spend so much time analyzing issues which you can't directly influence.
.I'll just take my share of the $Trillion economic "stimulus" package that was sold as as a bill of goods and protector of jobs...and build a factory for them to work in producing "Green" energy...maybe solar panels... just like the rest of the people and institutions who received billions. Or maybe I could put them to work "sexing lobsters"($7+million). maybe you saw 1 too many stupid Levis commercials("oh young people...do you have your guns?)? My "direct influence" is will be felt Nov 3rd.
".I'll just take my share of the $Trillion economic "stimulus" package that was sold as as a bill of goods and protector of jobs...and build a factory for them to work in producing "Green" energy...maybe solar panels... just like the rest of the people and institutions who received billions. "
I am sorry, but you are AGAINST this idea? You are AGAINST green energy? Why?
The arrogant stupidity of pretentious people never ceases to bring on a dull headache for me... I said no such thing, did I. While you concoct your briliant comments, it might help you to read the ones you are replying to, that way you dont look stupid. I guess you didnt learn that when you were getting your "PHD" from "a major US college". I'm against borrowing from my grandchildren for no reason but centralization of power in the Fed...or didnt you hear; That's All it accomplished... No JOBS!!
5. "The arrogant stupidity of pretentious people never ceases to bring on a dull headache for me..." Have you ever considered evaluating the logic and sense behind this "arrogant stupidity"? It will solve your headache,as well as many others in life.
"While you concoct your briliant comments, it might help you to read the ones you are replying to, that way you dont look stupid."
6. "I'm against borrowing from my grandchildren for no reason but centralization of power in the Fed...or didnt you hear; That's All it accomplished..." Short answer: Don't trust this news. They don't know what they are talking about. I suggest you to read "Macroeconomics" by Robert Barro or Mankiw or Romer. Think for yourself.
And you couldnt have said it better: "other worldy leaders." My whole point is that Obama is a dilettante who borrowed world view from Cindy Sheehan. His election is a black stain on the American Electorate. He was barely qualified to lead a mob, which is What He Did before entering politics at the behest of terrorists, and Islamist supremists(Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dorn, Rashida Khalida, Khalid Mansour)...He lurches blindly round the world gazing at his navel, or the tops of monarch's shoes.
I'm sure the point is obvious. Obama has been "punk'd" by every foreign leader he has had contact with, without exception, right down to the Taliban, who in response to his "...talks with moderate elements of the Taliban." issued a statement saying that there was no such thing, that the Taliban was "of one mind" regarding this fight. Somali Pirates, Kim Jong Ill, Iran, Daniel Ortega, Castro, Chavez, Putin...the list goes on. Challenge me to give details on each account if you dare, Mr. "PHD"...
You saw the result, but have failed to see the cause and have failed to rationally evaluate my explanation for the cause. Re-read my comments if you want an answer.
Well, your point was that it's Americas fault that Obama has to bow down to more worldly leaders. That He must apologize to them and genuflect saying I, Me, My...honoring Himself while directly and indirectly blaming every POTUS back to Roosevelt with lines like "America's made mistakes in the past..." 2 beats behind the music, but it's OUR fault...Thak God(Obama on High) for Obama...our Savior. yOU'RE RIGHT 011223344...iT is our fault he has to bow.
I liked that place. I remembered it having really good chocolate mousse when I visited the cafeteria on the first floor as a kid.
"Well, your point was that it's Americas fault that Obama has to bow down to more worldly leaders. "
No, my point is that it was Bush's failed policies that caused America to be in the state it's in right now. If anyone should bow, it's him. Obama is doing clean-up work.
On the other hand, I think America should revamp its education standard, it can be better.
A talkingpoints soundbyte straight from the Liberal Apologist Narrative.
"the failed Bush policies"(FBP) liberated 2 countries from tyrannical regimes, at the same time liberating over 50 million Muslims from their oppressors-unprecedented in human history-As a result of FBP no major terror attacks after 9/11 on US soil/since Obama came to power...at least 1, not to mention Iran problems, Israel problems, Taliban, Pakistan, we're about to get a lesson in Failure.
@wideawake123 Dude, you can't seriously think Bush's forigen policy is good. I mean he might meant well, but so did the white men when they went to aferica. The thing is, US think they are better. their way is better for everyone, while not respecthing the fact that what works for US might not work for other nations. I say, stop helping us. Get us to help ourselves, but don't try to impose on what you think is right on people who don't need it.
@Guanchen This is an 8 month old thread. I stand by every comment I made. You just tried to link Pres. Bush's foreign policy with European colonialism in Africa, which to me, is morally reprehensible. Bush/America liberated Iraq, now Iraq sells their oil to China, so that whole "No more blood for oil" lie that you told for 6 years doesn't play here. We don't colonize, and we Are better. China is the #1 Human Rights violator in the world. We Are better. This conversation is over.
@wideawake123 That's exactly it. What is human right? A hundred years ago, we have the right to duel. Which is now illegal. Can you call that lose of freedom? Sure you can call it murder, but it is concented by both parties. My point is the standard of what is right is constantly changing, and it is not for america nor china nor any other country other than Iraq to say what is right for Iraq. President Bush Ignored the lessons taught to European Colonialism and went on trying to change Iraq.
@Guanchen So then it's a reading comprehension thing with you? What part of 'This conversation is over.' didn't register with you? Since you insisted on continuing with your foray into world politics, I thought you might do better next time out(with someone else) if you used proper grammer and spelling:
@wideawake123 It's done when one of us can agree with the other. It's not for you to say if it is. Besides why are you checking my spelling? English isn't my first language. It's not strange I can't spell as well as people who was born in the stats. But it is by no mean a reason to look down on me.
On a side note, you haven't really respond to my point. Running out of points haven't we? :)
@Guanchen Listen, you equivocate about "what's a human right" as if there really is no difference between the USA and China, or North Korea. Your "All cultures are equal" idea smashesd against the bloody rocks of Islam. They Stone women for being rape victims. They chop off heads. America Is better...more moral than China, which has executed over 50 million of it's own citizens since Mao. "The white man in Africa" refers to Europe, not America. We don't colonize anyone.
@wideawake123 The excution is the past as much as the colonization of North America. You can't pick one history and ignore the other. And those are besides the point. Like I said, I think President Bush was trying to help but the effect can not be denied: They did not fix the problem in middle east. We still have suicide bombers every other week. It is a fact what US trying to do is not working. Hence you cannot argue President Bush's foreign policy is right.
You're trying to have 3 or 4 different arguments with me at the same time, and losing all of them.
1. Africa's colonization is a European thing. America and in particular Pres. Bush gave more health/economic aid to Africa than ANY nation. We owe them Nothing.
2. Iraq has been liberated from a tyrant and now votes in their government officials and BTW, sells their oil to China. 30 million Muslims freed from tyranny by Bush.
3. The Suicide Bombers are Islam, it's not nationalism...it's ISLAM
As for what America has accomplished in the ME: Nearly 60 million Arab and Afgan Muslims have been liberated from despotic tyrannies, Iraqis and Afghan vote in national and local elections. That Islamists still fight for a world Islamic califate and are willing to slaughter billions to achieve that end reflects on Islam, Not America. That you believe these ghouls chop off heads and stone women to death becuase of what Amenrica does is naieve...They do it because that's what Mohammad did. Period!
1.I didn't present European colonization as a case against US. I present it as an example how good intention can have bad result. Which render your statement null.
2.If Iraq has been liberated, why are US solders still there? Election and liberation still did not fix the problem is Iraq. Even if you argue now the battlefield is Afghanistan, that is still not part of Bush's plan. It was Obama's
3. Aren't Islamic problem part of the Middle East Problems?
American soldier remain in Iraq soley in a support/training role as a courtesy and at the behest of the Iraqi government. American troops dont engage in combat operations unless engaged. They don't go out on patrol unless the Iraqi troops specfically ask them to and Then, only in a support role. Islam is the World's problem, not just the ME. "Islamic problems" are murdering people on 6 continents. Until we stop treating Islam like a religion and outlaw it, the bloodshed will continue.
@wideawake123 That makes no sense at all. US has no business maintain a military present in a country with no problem. In fact US has no business maintain a military present in a country WITH problem. It's a foreign problem. The fact that they are there means only one thing. The war was not over. IF they leave then US lose.
Suicide Bomber is a world problem. however I am saying Bush's policy hasn't stop Suicide bombers in middle east. It's not a debat on the nature of Islam.
Didn't you just say that Iraq Was a mess...and Bush made it that way? We've been drawing down troops in Iraq for over a year. As I said, we are there at the behest of the Iraqi Gov..That means they still want us there to train their troops and build their infrastructure. As for Islamic death-mongers, There is no stopping them, there is only containing Islam and denying them Mosques from which to launch strikes at us. Obama's policies have caused a marked rise in Islamic holy Murders in USA.
@wideawake123 I never said Bush made the Iraq mess. I said Iraq is a mess, and Bush's foreign policy isn't making it better. But come to think of it, Iraq was more stable before US occupation. They never found weapon of mass destruction, and they made the country a lot worse. Now they have to stay. You say US troops are wanted there... perhaphs, but that's because the alternative will result in US came to Iraq, make a mess, then wipe their butt and left when things got worse.
1st. George W. Bush is no longer POTUS, and hasn't been for almost 2 years, so if you have objections to US foreign policy in Iraq, take it up with the America-hating Muslim in the Whitehouse and his America-hating Bitch of a wife.
2nd. I wonder if the people Saddam fed into industrial paper-shedders alive, or those he had bound and thrown off of buildings would agree about Iraq's sability. What do you think the 42,000 Iraqis he murdered every year would say about that? Oh yeah...they're dead.
1. I know he is no longer POTUS, this discussion isn't about the current state of US Foreign, it's about you thinking Bush's foreign policy is good, which is not. And I have proven from time to time again, it has not improve middle east and in fact it caused more trouble.
2. Yes Saddam killed many people, yes he is a bad man. But is it for US to say whether he gets to live or die? It's Iraq matter, maybe world concern, but it certainly is not US concern. Two word, European colony
@wideawake123 Where did you get such information? About rise in holy murders during Obama's term? Even if you are right, we still come back to my original point: So what? Just because Obama suffer worse suicide bomber doesn't justify Bush's foreign policy. It is a mess, now it's a bigger mess. It's like you done something bad then point to the kid who done something worse. Wrong is wrong, showing a woese example doesn't make the wrong doing go away.
Just pick up a newspaper. The incidence of Islamic holy attacks and foiled attempts has risen dramatically since Obama's apology tour, and Cairo speech. He capitulated American exceptionalism to Islam and bowed to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, he unleashed a shit-storm. Bush kept the homeland safe for 8 years after 9/11 and all Obama can do is blame Bush for his own failed presidency. 19 months and he's already the worst thing that ever happened on US soil. Bush was a giant compared to Obama.
@wideawake123 Are you seriously going to argue Bush and 9/11? It was Bush's fault 9/11 happened in the first place. (Sure he didn't crash the plane, but in his presidency he failed to protect US from this attack, that is a mistake, not an achievement), Like you said he kept the states safe for 8 years after that. But in doing so he made US foreign policy aggressive, and reduce US's creditability in an international level. That is also a mistake, not to be praised.
@Guanchen You need a serious reeducation in the Facts pal. The 9/11 attacks were planned, funded, and the terrorist were trained all under the Clinton administration. Bush hadnt even been POTUS 8 months when 9/11 happened. The U.S.S Cole, Khobar Towers, The US Embassy Bombings in Kenya and Tanzania and the 1st WTC Attack all came under Clinton. As for foreign policy, Obama makes Bush look like Reagan or Roosevelt. Under Bush, our allies knew we had their backs and our enemies feared us. No More.
@wideawake123 what you said doesn't contradict what I said. so why are you bringing it up? The planning is before his term, fine. Does that mean it's not his business when planets hit the buildings?
I feel we have reached a point in our discussion where you are done, you are just hoping for me to say something wrong and counter my point. Which means I am right and you see that. What's stoping you from saying that is your pride. I am not going to take that from you. So this is my last reply.
@Guanchen Yeah it does. You just blamed Pres. Bush for 9/11. So I Am contradicting you. Just as Clinton empowered and emboldened Osama bin Laden, Osama Obama is doing the same with Islamic "moderates"(which means The Muslim Brotherhood, parent organization for every Sunni Terror group from al Qaeda to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and all it front groups like ISNA, MSA and CAIR) You sir are Wrong and you have been since your 1st comment. Obama has made America miss Bush he's so bad.
as for agreeing with one another its very rare that polar opposites agree on any but the most basic principles. As for me "Running out of points", look at my 1st response to you. I said "This is an 8 month old thread. I stand by every comment I made", meaning I made my case, to which you responded with 'Bush in Africa'(???) To which I responded I found your equivocations about Pres. Bush reprehensible in their innaccuracy. Bush sent more aid to Africa than any other world leader before or since.
"Sadly, the 8 Presidents before him who dealt with China were of a much higher moral fiber and character. He has less foreign policy experience than I do."
YEAH! That's because America had a net surplus until mighty GOP village idiot Dubya rode into the white house. Do you know how much Dubya destroyed America? Before him America COULD still uphold its world standing. Now it's all about clean up.
Thank the conservative, republican, "old boy" connections culture for that.
To Liberals maybe. Your comment mirrors MSNBC talking points. We havent had a + foreign trade balance in decades. You talk of "world standing", thats why Americans are so enraged by Obama! In his rhetoric, he implicitly discredits every president in the modern age (Republican And Democrat), by suggesting American overreaching in our world endeavors. Are we then shocked that he nearly ignored the 20th anniversary of fall of the Berlin Wall nor made mention of its architect Ronald Reagan?
And yes, why don't you run for the presidency. Then you can get a true idea of the mess America is in.
The bottom line is the world just doesn't want to buy into the "American" conservative mindset anymore. After 8 years of Dubya, the world is ready to move on.
A laughable statement considering Great Britain, France, Italy, Israel, Poland...All elected Conservative Pres.' and PMs in their last elections. The West, in an attempt to stave off the effects of decades of post-war Liberal-P/C decay after the fall of Hitler (thank the USA for that) has been becoming more conservative out of necessity. Sarcozy, Berloscony, Gordon, Netanyahu...The pendulum is swinging right after 60 years. Neither Bush embodied "true" American Conservative values, Reagan did.
You know what's interest about Communist/Capitalist China?
They don't believe in WARS. Mao-Tze Tung say "War isa poison, brainwashing theory, and waste of money.". This is why they kick out millions of evil japanese during world war 2. What do you guys think?
illuminati = reptilian kin aka demons, jinn, naga, bluebloods, rothschilds, rockefellers, windsors, Al gore, etc who rule secret societies including freemasonry. their agenda:force toxic swine flu vaccines on many, get copenhagen treaty ratified, implement codex alimentaries dec 2009, ww3, stage alien invasion 2010, control weather and mind with HAARP and NASA scalar weapons and microchipped in globalist government. support free energy technology and gardeners!
illuminati = reptilian kin aka demons, jinn, naga, bluebloods, rothschilds, rockefellers, windsors, Al gore, etc who rule secret societies including freemasonry. their agenda:force toxic swine flu vaccines on many, get copenhagen treaty ratified, implement codex alimentaries dec 2009, ww3, stage alien invasion 2010, control weather and mind with HAARP and NASA scalar weapons and microchipped in globalist government. support free energy technology and gardeners!
Obama offerd China Yao Ming But China said no he is worthless.
bonespeanut 2 years ago
Nixon first went to China in Feburary 1972.
2009 - 1972 = 37 years. Almost 38 years, not 30.
The6000Sabre 2 years ago
Chinese people REALLY hate niggers!
The6000Sabre 2 years ago
Obama is selling us out to the Chinese...capitulating our greatness in an effort to earn that Nobel prize for not being Bush. Sadly, the 8 Presidents before him who dealt with China were of a much higher moral fiber and character. He has less foreign policy experience than I do. That he is so willing to sell his country down the river is unprecidented...not even Carter was this openly hostile to his own countrymen. Shame on Obama, and Shame on us for electing him.
wideawake123 2 years ago
Capitulating your greatness? What, because he didn't adopt the typical petty, obnoxious, uneducated American village attitude of, in Mark Twain's style,
"ah am a goddamn white American, don't got much education but I know ma rights and so ah can go on cussin', hatin', and disrespectin' other peoples and cultures."
Because he actually talked sensibly and not like a small village idiot you think he is capitulating?
How laughable.
0112337 2 years ago
You're useless. "Petty/obnoxious/uneducated"? Did Nixon abdicate our moral authority or world standing when he traveled to China? Did Regan at Rejavik, or Berlin? As a veritable neophyte compared to the vast majority of men who served as POTUS, he's showing his ineptitude. Also, Obama's contempt for US foreign policy protocols exacerbates his lack of foreign policy saavy. The new question isnt WWJD, or Who would Reagan bomb...it's Who would Obama bow to? Our POTUS is laughable, not me.
wideawake123 2 years ago
You're out of touch with reality. Did Nixon inherit 800 billion debt with China? China's got America's pocketbook.
Obama went to China to beg for money. What do you want him to be? The "dignified" beggar? Come on...haha
0112337 2 years ago
If you think you can blame Obama's incompetence on debt, then it's You who's out of touch w/reality. What's got the Chinese upset is that Obama is flooding world markets w/worthless paper money, and refuses to stop Gietner and Bernanke from printing more and more, which is why they're selling off their position(slowly) and buying Gold(w/our $s). I used to think this was part of his plan to destroy our civil society, now I understand that he's merely the most incompetent man ever elected POTUS.
wideawake123 2 years ago
No, your statements are "non-sequiturs". Let me clarify my points for you.
Your claim: Obama is incompetent and he capitulated in Beijing, lowering America's national prestige.
My claim: Obama acted sensibly in Beijing given the current situation, this does not equate to capitulating.
My arguments:
1. America is heavily in debt, China is the largest holder of U.S. debt, thus Obama couldn't act boldly in Beijing...without looking ridiculous.
0112337 2 years ago
I'm sorry...did the person who started out his argument with ad hominem: "Ah'm a stupid fuckin' redneck, he-haw..." (or whatever) just accuse me of logical fallacy? That I have drawn comparisons between statesmanship and trans-global cock-sucking...is that what upsets you so?
China is merely going to wait Obama out. In 4 years Hu will still be there, but Obama will be a memory. You want non-sequitors? Katy Couric has even turned on your petite engenue...NOBODY thinks this Asia trip went well.
wideawake123 2 years ago
2. I claimed that Bush is conservative, the reason being his staunchest support comes from conservatives in this country. They agreed with his plans and policies. You may disagree, but that would put you outside mainstream conservative views in this country.
3. The world is tired of "American style conservatism", as characterized by the leader of this movement (bush) in recent years. That is why so many former allies are abandoning America's international cause.
0112337 2 years ago
Bush wasn't a fiscal conservative by any means. Every time he tried to reign in spending, Democrats on the Hill had kittens, and He cave in to them. I never saw a man try so hard to be liked by his enemies than GW...what a fool. Where his support came from is irrelevent, he was a fiscal liberal. His only saving grace was that he made hard choices on foreign policy. BTW whose cock would Obama have sucked if he were POTUS on 9/11? "'Cuz he sur wudna gon to war over a buncha dead white people"
wideawake123 2 years ago
I have stated 1, 2, 3. If you want to disagree, show A,B,C which directly contradicts the statements as worded in 1,2,3. Don't give me 4,5,6 which has no bearing on 1,2,3 and use it as a contradiction.
By the way, I am a economics PhD student in one of America's best universities. I am not trying to say this to oppress you in the dialogue, but I want to let you know that, as a layman, you don't know enough about what you are saying.
0112337 2 years ago
I hate to burst your bubble, but I made the opening statement...to which you replied "Ah am a God Damned White American, cussin' and a feudin' and a fuckin' ma sister..." remember? Any courtesy shown subsquent to that has been more than you deserved(since Im certain no apology is coming). The fact remains his shortcomings are as glaring as his unworthiness as a Nobel Laureate. Mohandis Ghandi didnt measure up but Obama does? He should chain himself to his desk and try to do some actual work.
wideawake123 2 years ago
haha...look man, I never called or intentionally called YOU a redneck. You are reading between the lines. I have nothing against southerners. I was just "caricaturizing" a general cultural phenomenon, one that was embodied in Dubya, who was the leader of America.
But with that said, please understand THAT is how most of the world perceived America, especially during King Dubya's reign.
If you somehow took my comments personally I do apologize.
0112337 2 years ago
1. I read between the lines: "typical, petty, obnoxious uneducated America..." and ".. small village idiot".
2. I'm from NJ.
3. Bush was a Yale man he wasnt stupid.
4. You recite the Liberal/Islamist narrative like a pro, our true allies(without agendas or BIG skeletons) trusted him. Toppling 2 regimes he freed more Muslims from tryranny than any man in history. You may deny that, but history wont. Weve spent decades Saving Muslims.
5. I didnt take it personally, but I do judge you by that.
wideawake123 2 years ago
1. Why, do you think this description actually fits you? I never said that or suggested it, but if you agree, then perhaps you should change?
2. And I am from CT.
3. Bush was a Yale man through "Old boy" connections, and he was a straight C student there. At Yale, nearly all classes are curved to a B+, nobody gets Cs. Unless you don't do anything, or curse at your professor to his face, there is no way you can get a C. A "C" at Yale is a F- at any other university.
0112337 2 years ago
As I said, I dont think it fits me, I dont take it personally, and I judge you a lying elitist twit for what you said, Mr. YouTube PHD. A million brave American Soldiers died so ytou could be free to cast aspersions on American culture. Fell free to denigrate yourself all you want. We dont know what grades you Messi-uh got because every record from his past is sealed...every one. Judging by his books, he was also a C student(at best) Judging his foreign policy he flunked out of Madrassa.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"We dont know what grades you Messi-uh got because every record from his past is sealed...every one."
?
0112337 2 years ago
Every record from his Birth Certificate(All records regarding him were sealed by the Gov. of Hawaii), to his Immigration Records, to his Entire Record from High School to Columbia to Harvard are sealed. All we know is that Khalid Mansour and Price Al Walid bin Saud helped with tuition. (Walid is best rembered for having a check thrown back in his face by then-mayor Rudy Giulianni after saying in effect 9/11 was America's fault) Seems like everyone we Do know Obama hung out with is a Creep.
wideawake123 2 years ago
4. Your "true allies" along this reasoning is probably the former National Socialist Party of Germany or the National Fascist Party of Italy.
"Toppling 2 regimes he freed...."
Is that what you, average Joe Schmuck from NJ think, or what the arabs in the "liberated territories" think? Why?
History, thank "God", is not, and will not be written by people like you. Your views and King Dubya ARE part of History.
5. Good, but don't judge me, because you are not qualified.
0112337 2 years ago
Fra. Ger. and Rus. were against invading Iraq we found because they were deep in business w/Saddam, and the invasion exposed the biggest swindle in world history(oil for food) which they were a part of. Everyone from GB, to China either liked, respected, or feared Bush. He commanded respect because he was willing and able to make decisions. Obama simply decides not to decide. As a YouTube PHD, you should know your place and dont argue foreign policy with your betters. Im just getting started.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"Im just getting started."
Please Don't. I would rather not hear you irrationally string together unrelated pieces of dubious information.
0112337 2 years ago
Dubious? Is that how you refer to the vast amount of knowlegde you Don't have? If it isnt in your tiny little coy-pond of experience, it must be dubious anecdotes from the vast unknown ocean. There's You... and then there's the rest of the world. Obama lies...and YT PHDs like you swear to it. Well...Obama shames us while attempt to glorify himself. That makes him a creep in my eyes. Unworthy of the votes he received, unworthy of the laurels, unworthy of our respect. 2012 cant come soon enough.
wideawake123 2 years ago
YouBoob PHD, halfwits like you follow the narrative that the world would be a better place had Geo. Bush died, well let's see: Would Talibanistan be a better place? Would Iraqis be better off? Saddam killed an average 42,000 anually in Abu Ghraib prison. He was committing genocide on his own people, as were the Taliban. Now is it that you Like Mass Graves, Stonings, and dissidents fed alive into industrial shredders? Do you enjoy watch handcuffed men thrown off of 4 story buildings? Is That it?
wideawake123 2 years ago
Is it your preference like most bleeding heart liberal to point at the suffering, blame corporate America for letting it happen, and launch a few cruise missiles to make it look like youre trying to help. In Iraq Obama stepped into a situation where the war was won already. Let's see how long it takes him to mess That up. Remember his campaign slogan "I have a plan for Afghanistan"? Turns out he was lying. History will remember Obama as a weaker, more incompetent version of Jimmy Carter.
wideawake123 2 years ago
You have some good thoughts, but read more and then you might see other dimensions that might alter your current perspective.
0112337 2 years ago
Finally, I definitely don't believe Dubya was a good president, nor the idea that America could ever go back to the good ol' 50s or 80s conservatism (a la Reagan). America was strong during those days not because of better policies but because of the international community's weakness in general.
With that said, I don't think Obama is a great president either. He is a charismatic speaker, but too unrealistic. The U.S. can not accomplish everything he proposed in his 4 year presidency.
0112337 2 years ago
Their is only one Superpower in the world and that's us. The perception of our demise is a construct of the Liberal media. There is the Bear, The Dragon, and The Eagle...all the rest pretend they are equals. I cant wait to hear you equivocate about cultures...That will be the comedy portion of this discussion. Do you think Obama will bow to the King of Norway or Sweden next trip? At least Bush didnt grovel. And dont you fucking dare try to equivocate Obama's foreign policy with Reagan's!
wideawake123 2 years ago
Now this comment is just humorous. Personally I can't predict whether Obama will bow down to the King of Norway or Sweden, I hope he doesn't. But given America's current international image, perhaps such acts are necessary.
Tell you what, instead of trying to take on international politics and economics, why don't you try to improve the economics and politics within your own town? Start there. Organize something, if you see unemployed people there, try to figure out a way to get them working.
0112337 2 years ago
Our image with whom? Uncivilized brutes and elitist Socialist prigs? Jealous despots? I guess our post-Indonesia Tsunami and post-Pakistani earthquake responses along with the largest amount ever sent to Africa for AIDS really left a bad impression on the rest though. I'm sending you a link to a NY TIMES Op Ed: "America vs The Narrative"...Read it because it decribes your rhetoric and where it came from. It's time for You to grow up. America Is better than the rest of the world...to you chagrin.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"Our image with whom? Uncivilized brutes and elitist Socialist prigs? Jealous despots? I guess our post-Indonesia Tsunami and post-Pakistani earthquake responses along with the largest amount ever sent to Africa for AIDS really left a bad impression on the rest though. "
Don't generalize about things you don't know. Uncivilized brutes?
Read more.
0112337 2 years ago
Now that's showing balls, I must say. Shall we discuss these issues in depth? Let's start with this question: What POTUS has given the most money to Africa to fight AIDs?
Then let's try this: What country gave the most money and comfort, who was basically the backbone of the Indonesian Tsunami rescue? Hedre's a hint:Anchors Aweigh My Frind. Dont you fucking dare try to belittle the thing America is most known for. It is our CHARITY that makes U.S. the "Good Neighbor" to the world.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"It is our CHARITY that makes U.S. the "Good Neighbor" to the world."
I think many other countries will disagree with this.
0112337 2 years ago
I think you bought the Liberal/Islamist Narrative Hook, Line, and Sinker. Next you'll want to expound on how if we didnt support Israel all our troubles with the Muslim world would dissappear. Would any of the countries we liberated in WWII disagree? would you like to search out the dollar amounts the US Govt. gives in Charitable Aid(not military) compared to the rest of the world? Then do private charity per capita. That's American Wheat and Rice They are eating in Gaza. We feed the Arab World.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"America Is better than the rest of the world...to you chagrin."
It certainly can be, but it won't if it keeps up its uncultured, brash, arrogant, ignorant, self-centered, and feral, aggressive, village ways.
0112337 2 years ago
For a "PHD"(I'm pretty sure everyone on YT is), you really dont know much. Also, you have a much higher opinion of yourself, than you do your countrymen. The only "redneck" in this conversation has been you, apparently. You didn't follow the link I sent you either. Oh well, I'll just go back to my bible and guns and cling to them, like the POTUS said us "Igniant wite folks do..." Think about that you unworthy snob, while my nephews fight in distant lands. Bless them...Damn your ignorance.
wideawake123 2 years ago
Again, let me put this in point form for you.
1. I don't have a PhD yet, but I am close in finishing my thesis. I don't know everything, but I know more than you...about things in my field.
In fact, I have been trying to teach u.
2. There are many village idiots in our country who, perhaps due to excessive encouragements in their lower level educational experience, fail to realize that their opinions are wholly unqualified. I discriminate against these people not all of my "countrymen".
0112337 2 years ago
Im calling Bullshit right here. Youre an elitist snob who knows exactly Nothing about foreign policy, you voted for Obama because you thought it would be "cool" and he gave good speech you tool. You know as much about FP as Obama does, and thats gotten him ridiculed by every world leader there is(including himself) I daRE you to ask me for specifics...I Dare you. If you're a Doctoral student, I'm James Madison. Those bumpkins you "discriminate" against become Soldiers. On their behalf: Fuck You.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"I daRE you to ask me for specifics...I Dare you. If you're a Doctoral student, I'm James Madison...."
I don't dare, to argue against fools. In fact, I am afraid of you.
0112337 2 years ago
That's me: "ahm a stupid fuckin redneck American...just cussin' an a feudin'" Somewhere in there I found the time to help liberate Kuwait..."Then ah went and fucked ma sister"...You little fuckwit, you dont know the first thing about the world-ecept that Americans are uncultured morons compared to You. Come on fuck-stick...let's go episode by episode since Jan. 21st and I'll show you what he did, how it was perceived, and how each case progressed. What situation HASNT Obama made worse?
wideawake123 2 years ago
3. Am I a "redneck"? Well the definition of a redneck is a "working class white person, esp. a politically reactionary one from a rural area." I am neither, so no.
4. I did look at that article. Here is my question for you. * Again, why do you think the arabs think or have the same opinion of things as conservatives like you? * Why should they hold the same opinions? And if they don't, why won't YOU allow them to have their own culturally derived opinions?
0112337 2 years ago
I only need to answer point #4, because with that question, you illustrate your complete naive ignorance. "What's wrong with a little Muslim culture?" you whine...Well, it's their culturally held believe that they should fight us until we either convert, become their slaves in an Islamic society(dhimmis), or die. I fucking beg you to differ with me. What you have here is a man who spent 9/11 decontaminating evacuees from lower Manhattan, and every day since studying Islam, and World History.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"I fucking beg you to differ with me....."
Your counterpart in Iraq did the same thing on date XXX cleaning the dead bodies of children killed from in-discriminant U.S./Israeli bombing. They also studied U.S. History and have now become terrorists. Holding similar irrational, passionate views as you. They would prob. say "on behalf of all muslim bumpkins who became terrorists/suicide bombers: fuck YOU."
I want to thank you for your help at 9/11. My father worked in the World Trade Center.
0112337 2 years ago
You want to equivocate Iraq with 9/11? BTW, I see you Did manage to add Israel to your rendition of the Narrative...With "Israelis bombing Iraqi children." Meanwhile par for the apolgist course, you completely ignor the fact that for each "Iraqi Civilian" we indiscriminately bombed...The "Fedayeen" killed over 100. Just last week in Pakistan 40 or so were killed in 1 attack, 17 of them kids. Hundreds of Muslims are dying every week at the hands of your Muslim heros...Fuck them, And you.
wideawake123 2 years ago
Why do you think they should hold the same definition of "modernism" as you? Is that democratic? Isn't that an attack on Islamic culture and way of life? Suppose the Taliban came to your town in NJ and demanded all men to wear beards and women to cover themselves and to abide by Islamic law, calling it "modernism", would you agree?
The Baathists, despite their sins, kept the peace between the Shiites and Sunnis. During Saddam's reign there were no sectarian strife. Now there is.
0112337 2 years ago
So then the Muslim may(does) indeed define Islamic modernity as;better suicide vests-better explosives and detonators-instantly transmitted kill orders worldwide-and as we saw in the case of last year's Thankgiving Slaughter in Mumbai-constant connectivity and cellular coordination...something like that? Now riots can be coordinated worldwide within hours(which they are) and press coverage is immediate-You didnt think illiterate Paks. and Indonesians Miracled those signs into Enlish...did you?
wideawake123 2 years ago
"So then the Muslim may(does) indeed define Islamic modernity as;better suicide vests-better explosives and detonators-instantly transmitted kill orders..."
Read the Qu'ran. You might change your opinion.
0112337 2 years ago
I own 3 transliterations and have probably read them through 4 or 5 times. I've read the Quran chronologically holding It in one hand, and Sirat Rasul Allah(the Sira) in the other. The entire Sahih Bukhari/Muslim(surfname) Hadith collection are available online at USC MSA Compendium online-I've read Them + The Hadith Qudsu(considered 2d only to Quran in divinity), and have a better understanding of Islam than most Muslims-I can quote chapter and verse extemporaniously IN CONTEXT. Ask a question.
wideawake123 2 years ago
members of a radical muslim minority bombed America partly because of people like you forcing them to change their preferred way of life.
I think if the Taliban tried to force the KKK to adopt muslim ways...through harsh methods, the KKK would bomb some large mosque in the Middle East too. In fact, that is exactly what King Dubya did.
I hope your nephew returns home safely.
0112337 2 years ago
The 9/11 "Brigades" as they like to refer to them were middle and upper middle class Arabs who never wanted for a thing in their lives. OBL was the son of a multi-billionaire who CHOSE the life he leads. They All chose to go to war. They did so for ideological reasons, not economic. OBL declared war on Saudi Arabia for allowing a foreign army(US) on it's soil. He declared war on US in 1997 quoting Surah At Tawba verse 5 in his declaration. An Islamist's "preferred way of life" is Jihad...cont
wideawake123 2 years ago
So according to your twisted morals, the 9/11 Attacks came as a result of "King Dubya" bombing some "large mosque in the MiddleEast"-Which mosque would that have been Mr YouTube PHD, The Golden Mosque in Samarra possibly? Shall I tell you what my nephew Jim related to me about his months on patrol in that very city? What you are doing is spewing forth the Arab-Muslim Narrative, nothing more-You are uniformed, and indoctrinated. Your similes lack substance and show you to be what I said you were.
wideawake123 2 years ago
What did your nephew Jim relate to you while on patrol?
0112337 2 years ago
You first...I asked you: According top you 9/11 was a retaiation for Bush bombing a large mosques in the M-E...Which mosque, The Golden Mosque in Samarra? We'll get to rest after you answer. Read your comment above where you equivocated KKK/Taliban, and answer my direct question, then I'll discuss whichever nephew you wish.
wideawake123 2 years ago
If you can think of a way to mobilize all the laid off, unemployed people in your neighborhood into doing something economically productive, and if every town in America could do the same thing, America would be out of the recession and Obama wouldn't have to bow down to other worldly leaders.
Think about things that way. Don't spend so much time analyzing issues which you can't directly influence.
0112337 2 years ago
.I'll just take my share of the $Trillion economic "stimulus" package that was sold as as a bill of goods and protector of jobs...and build a factory for them to work in producing "Green" energy...maybe solar panels... just like the rest of the people and institutions who received billions. Or maybe I could put them to work "sexing lobsters"($7+million). maybe you saw 1 too many stupid Levis commercials("oh young people...do you have your guns?)? My "direct influence" is will be felt Nov 3rd.
wideawake123 2 years ago
".I'll just take my share of the $Trillion economic "stimulus" package that was sold as as a bill of goods and protector of jobs...and build a factory for them to work in producing "Green" energy...maybe solar panels... just like the rest of the people and institutions who received billions. "
I am sorry, but you are AGAINST this idea? You are AGAINST green energy? Why?
0112337 2 years ago
The arrogant stupidity of pretentious people never ceases to bring on a dull headache for me... I said no such thing, did I. While you concoct your briliant comments, it might help you to read the ones you are replying to, that way you dont look stupid. I guess you didnt learn that when you were getting your "PHD" from "a major US college". I'm against borrowing from my grandchildren for no reason but centralization of power in the Fed...or didnt you hear; That's All it accomplished... No JOBS!!
wideawake123 2 years ago
5. "The arrogant stupidity of pretentious people never ceases to bring on a dull headache for me..." Have you ever considered evaluating the logic and sense behind this "arrogant stupidity"? It will solve your headache,as well as many others in life.
"While you concoct your briliant comments, it might help you to read the ones you are replying to, that way you dont look stupid."
I did, hence I wrote a "comment".
0112337 2 years ago
6. "I'm against borrowing from my grandchildren for no reason but centralization of power in the Fed...or didnt you hear; That's All it accomplished..." Short answer: Don't trust this news. They don't know what they are talking about. I suggest you to read "Macroeconomics" by Robert Barro or Mankiw or Romer. Think for yourself.
0112337 2 years ago
And you couldnt have said it better: "other worldy leaders." My whole point is that Obama is a dilettante who borrowed world view from Cindy Sheehan. His election is a black stain on the American Electorate. He was barely qualified to lead a mob, which is What He Did before entering politics at the behest of terrorists, and Islamist supremists(Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dorn, Rashida Khalida, Khalid Mansour)...He lurches blindly round the world gazing at his navel, or the tops of monarch's shoes.
wideawake123 2 years ago
"And you couldnt have said it better: "other worldy leaders." " .....
This comment is an irrational outburst, it actually has no point.
I will leave it at that.
0112337 2 years ago
I'm sure the point is obvious. Obama has been "punk'd" by every foreign leader he has had contact with, without exception, right down to the Taliban, who in response to his "...talks with moderate elements of the Taliban." issued a statement saying that there was no such thing, that the Taliban was "of one mind" regarding this fight. Somali Pirates, Kim Jong Ill, Iran, Daniel Ortega, Castro, Chavez, Putin...the list goes on. Challenge me to give details on each account if you dare, Mr. "PHD"...
wideawake123 2 years ago
7. "I'm sure the point is obvious."
You saw the result, but have failed to see the cause and have failed to rationally evaluate my explanation for the cause. Re-read my comments if you want an answer.
0112337 2 years ago
Well, your point was that it's Americas fault that Obama has to bow down to more worldly leaders. That He must apologize to them and genuflect saying I, Me, My...honoring Himself while directly and indirectly blaming every POTUS back to Roosevelt with lines like "America's made mistakes in the past..." 2 beats behind the music, but it's OUR fault...Thak God(Obama on High) for Obama...our Savior. yOU'RE RIGHT 011223344...iT is our fault he has to bow.
wideawake123 2 years ago
I liked that place. I remembered it having really good chocolate mousse when I visited the cafeteria on the first floor as a kid.
"Well, your point was that it's Americas fault that Obama has to bow down to more worldly leaders. "
No, my point is that it was Bush's failed policies that caused America to be in the state it's in right now. If anyone should bow, it's him. Obama is doing clean-up work.
On the other hand, I think America should revamp its education standard, it can be better.
0112337 2 years ago
"the failed Bush policies"...
A talkingpoints soundbyte straight from the Liberal Apologist Narrative.
"the failed Bush policies"(FBP) liberated 2 countries from tyrannical regimes, at the same time liberating over 50 million Muslims from their oppressors-unprecedented in human history-As a result of FBP no major terror attacks after 9/11 on US soil/since Obama came to power...at least 1, not to mention Iran problems, Israel problems, Taliban, Pakistan, we're about to get a lesson in Failure.
wideawake123 2 years ago
@wideawake123 Dude, you can't seriously think Bush's forigen policy is good. I mean he might meant well, but so did the white men when they went to aferica. The thing is, US think they are better. their way is better for everyone, while not respecthing the fact that what works for US might not work for other nations. I say, stop helping us. Get us to help ourselves, but don't try to impose on what you think is right on people who don't need it.
Guanchen 1 year ago
@Guanchen This is an 8 month old thread. I stand by every comment I made. You just tried to link Pres. Bush's foreign policy with European colonialism in Africa, which to me, is morally reprehensible. Bush/America liberated Iraq, now Iraq sells their oil to China, so that whole "No more blood for oil" lie that you told for 6 years doesn't play here. We don't colonize, and we Are better. China is the #1 Human Rights violator in the world. We Are better. This conversation is over.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 That's exactly it. What is human right? A hundred years ago, we have the right to duel. Which is now illegal. Can you call that lose of freedom? Sure you can call it murder, but it is concented by both parties. My point is the standard of what is right is constantly changing, and it is not for america nor china nor any other country other than Iraq to say what is right for Iraq. President Bush Ignored the lessons taught to European Colonialism and went on trying to change Iraq.
Guanchen 1 year ago
@Guanchen So then it's a reading comprehension thing with you? What part of 'This conversation is over.' didn't register with you? Since you insisted on continuing with your foray into world politics, I thought you might do better next time out(with someone else) if you used proper grammer and spelling:
LOSS is spelled loss, not 'LOSE'
The correct word is CONCENTUAL, not 'CONCENTED'
That said, We're done here....ok?
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 It's done when one of us can agree with the other. It's not for you to say if it is. Besides why are you checking my spelling? English isn't my first language. It's not strange I can't spell as well as people who was born in the stats. But it is by no mean a reason to look down on me.
On a side note, you haven't really respond to my point. Running out of points haven't we? :)
Guanchen 1 year ago
@Guanchen Listen, you equivocate about "what's a human right" as if there really is no difference between the USA and China, or North Korea. Your "All cultures are equal" idea smashesd against the bloody rocks of Islam. They Stone women for being rape victims. They chop off heads. America Is better...more moral than China, which has executed over 50 million of it's own citizens since Mao. "The white man in Africa" refers to Europe, not America. We don't colonize anyone.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 The excution is the past as much as the colonization of North America. You can't pick one history and ignore the other. And those are besides the point. Like I said, I think President Bush was trying to help but the effect can not be denied: They did not fix the problem in middle east. We still have suicide bombers every other week. It is a fact what US trying to do is not working. Hence you cannot argue President Bush's foreign policy is right.
Guanchen 1 year ago
You're trying to have 3 or 4 different arguments with me at the same time, and losing all of them.
1. Africa's colonization is a European thing. America and in particular Pres. Bush gave more health/economic aid to Africa than ANY nation. We owe them Nothing.
2. Iraq has been liberated from a tyrant and now votes in their government officials and BTW, sells their oil to China. 30 million Muslims freed from tyranny by Bush.
3. The Suicide Bombers are Islam, it's not nationalism...it's ISLAM
wideawake123 1 year ago
As for what America has accomplished in the ME: Nearly 60 million Arab and Afgan Muslims have been liberated from despotic tyrannies, Iraqis and Afghan vote in national and local elections. That Islamists still fight for a world Islamic califate and are willing to slaughter billions to achieve that end reflects on Islam, Not America. That you believe these ghouls chop off heads and stone women to death becuase of what Amenrica does is naieve...They do it because that's what Mohammad did. Period!
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123
1.I didn't present European colonization as a case against US. I present it as an example how good intention can have bad result. Which render your statement null.
2.If Iraq has been liberated, why are US solders still there? Election and liberation still did not fix the problem is Iraq. Even if you argue now the battlefield is Afghanistan, that is still not part of Bush's plan. It was Obama's
3. Aren't Islamic problem part of the Middle East Problems?
Guanchen 1 year ago
American soldier remain in Iraq soley in a support/training role as a courtesy and at the behest of the Iraqi government. American troops dont engage in combat operations unless engaged. They don't go out on patrol unless the Iraqi troops specfically ask them to and Then, only in a support role. Islam is the World's problem, not just the ME. "Islamic problems" are murdering people on 6 continents. Until we stop treating Islam like a religion and outlaw it, the bloodshed will continue.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 That makes no sense at all. US has no business maintain a military present in a country with no problem. In fact US has no business maintain a military present in a country WITH problem. It's a foreign problem. The fact that they are there means only one thing. The war was not over. IF they leave then US lose.
Suicide Bomber is a world problem. however I am saying Bush's policy hasn't stop Suicide bombers in middle east. It's not a debat on the nature of Islam.
Guanchen 1 year ago
Didn't you just say that Iraq Was a mess...and Bush made it that way? We've been drawing down troops in Iraq for over a year. As I said, we are there at the behest of the Iraqi Gov..That means they still want us there to train their troops and build their infrastructure. As for Islamic death-mongers, There is no stopping them, there is only containing Islam and denying them Mosques from which to launch strikes at us. Obama's policies have caused a marked rise in Islamic holy Murders in USA.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 I never said Bush made the Iraq mess. I said Iraq is a mess, and Bush's foreign policy isn't making it better. But come to think of it, Iraq was more stable before US occupation. They never found weapon of mass destruction, and they made the country a lot worse. Now they have to stay. You say US troops are wanted there... perhaphs, but that's because the alternative will result in US came to Iraq, make a mess, then wipe their butt and left when things got worse.
Guanchen 1 year ago
1st. George W. Bush is no longer POTUS, and hasn't been for almost 2 years, so if you have objections to US foreign policy in Iraq, take it up with the America-hating Muslim in the Whitehouse and his America-hating Bitch of a wife.
2nd. I wonder if the people Saddam fed into industrial paper-shedders alive, or those he had bound and thrown off of buildings would agree about Iraq's sability. What do you think the 42,000 Iraqis he murdered every year would say about that? Oh yeah...they're dead.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123
1. I know he is no longer POTUS, this discussion isn't about the current state of US Foreign, it's about you thinking Bush's foreign policy is good, which is not. And I have proven from time to time again, it has not improve middle east and in fact it caused more trouble.
2. Yes Saddam killed many people, yes he is a bad man. But is it for US to say whether he gets to live or die? It's Iraq matter, maybe world concern, but it certainly is not US concern. Two word, European colony
Guanchen 1 year ago
@wideawake123 Where did you get such information? About rise in holy murders during Obama's term? Even if you are right, we still come back to my original point: So what? Just because Obama suffer worse suicide bomber doesn't justify Bush's foreign policy. It is a mess, now it's a bigger mess. It's like you done something bad then point to the kid who done something worse. Wrong is wrong, showing a woese example doesn't make the wrong doing go away.
Guanchen 1 year ago
Just pick up a newspaper. The incidence of Islamic holy attacks and foiled attempts has risen dramatically since Obama's apology tour, and Cairo speech. He capitulated American exceptionalism to Islam and bowed to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, he unleashed a shit-storm. Bush kept the homeland safe for 8 years after 9/11 and all Obama can do is blame Bush for his own failed presidency. 19 months and he's already the worst thing that ever happened on US soil. Bush was a giant compared to Obama.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 Are you seriously going to argue Bush and 9/11? It was Bush's fault 9/11 happened in the first place. (Sure he didn't crash the plane, but in his presidency he failed to protect US from this attack, that is a mistake, not an achievement), Like you said he kept the states safe for 8 years after that. But in doing so he made US foreign policy aggressive, and reduce US's creditability in an international level. That is also a mistake, not to be praised.
Guanchen 1 year ago
@Guanchen You need a serious reeducation in the Facts pal. The 9/11 attacks were planned, funded, and the terrorist were trained all under the Clinton administration. Bush hadnt even been POTUS 8 months when 9/11 happened. The U.S.S Cole, Khobar Towers, The US Embassy Bombings in Kenya and Tanzania and the 1st WTC Attack all came under Clinton. As for foreign policy, Obama makes Bush look like Reagan or Roosevelt. Under Bush, our allies knew we had their backs and our enemies feared us. No More.
wideawake123 1 year ago
@wideawake123 what you said doesn't contradict what I said. so why are you bringing it up? The planning is before his term, fine. Does that mean it's not his business when planets hit the buildings?
I feel we have reached a point in our discussion where you are done, you are just hoping for me to say something wrong and counter my point. Which means I am right and you see that. What's stoping you from saying that is your pride. I am not going to take that from you. So this is my last reply.
Guanchen 1 year ago
@Guanchen Yeah it does. You just blamed Pres. Bush for 9/11. So I Am contradicting you. Just as Clinton empowered and emboldened Osama bin Laden, Osama Obama is doing the same with Islamic "moderates"(which means The Muslim Brotherhood, parent organization for every Sunni Terror group from al Qaeda to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and all it front groups like ISNA, MSA and CAIR) You sir are Wrong and you have been since your 1st comment. Obama has made America miss Bush he's so bad.
wideawake123 1 year ago
as for agreeing with one another its very rare that polar opposites agree on any but the most basic principles. As for me "Running out of points", look at my 1st response to you. I said "This is an 8 month old thread. I stand by every comment I made", meaning I made my case, to which you responded with 'Bush in Africa'(???) To which I responded I found your equivocations about Pres. Bush reprehensible in their innaccuracy. Bush sent more aid to Africa than any other world leader before or since.
wideawake123 1 year ago
Best wishes to you and your family, especially your nephew. Hope you have a good Christmas and New Years.
-Peter
0112337 2 years ago
"Sadly, the 8 Presidents before him who dealt with China were of a much higher moral fiber and character. He has less foreign policy experience than I do."
YEAH! That's because America had a net surplus until mighty GOP village idiot Dubya rode into the white house. Do you know how much Dubya destroyed America? Before him America COULD still uphold its world standing. Now it's all about clean up.
Thank the conservative, republican, "old boy" connections culture for that.
0112337 2 years ago
To Liberals maybe. Your comment mirrors MSNBC talking points. We havent had a + foreign trade balance in decades. You talk of "world standing", thats why Americans are so enraged by Obama! In his rhetoric, he implicitly discredits every president in the modern age (Republican And Democrat), by suggesting American overreaching in our world endeavors. Are we then shocked that he nearly ignored the 20th anniversary of fall of the Berlin Wall nor made mention of its architect Ronald Reagan?
wideawake123 2 years ago
And yes, why don't you run for the presidency. Then you can get a true idea of the mess America is in.
The bottom line is the world just doesn't want to buy into the "American" conservative mindset anymore. After 8 years of Dubya, the world is ready to move on.
GET OVER IT.
0112337 2 years ago
A laughable statement considering Great Britain, France, Italy, Israel, Poland...All elected Conservative Pres.' and PMs in their last elections. The West, in an attempt to stave off the effects of decades of post-war Liberal-P/C decay after the fall of Hitler (thank the USA for that) has been becoming more conservative out of necessity. Sarcozy, Berloscony, Gordon, Netanyahu...The pendulum is swinging right after 60 years. Neither Bush embodied "true" American Conservative values, Reagan did.
wideawake123 2 years ago
You know what's interest about Communist/Capitalist China?
They don't believe in WARS. Mao-Tze Tung say "War isa poison, brainwashing theory, and waste of money.". This is why they kick out millions of evil japanese during world war 2. What do you guys think?
FilmBorne 2 years ago
I think you should check your logic. Mao Ze Dong is against wars and that is why they kicked out the Japanese in WWII?
Does this train of reasoning make sense to you?
What do YOU think?
0112337 2 years ago
instead killing or dying over 70'000'000 people
does this makes your comment make sense!
Think bit
Ganeschar 2 years ago
I have no idea what you are trying to say, but cool channel design though.
I love Tibet too!
0112337 2 years ago
The chinese currency is Undevalued!!!
What is Barack Obama talking about. They peg their currency to our dolllar. We print money and they buy our currency.
THEY SHOULD STOP AND LET OUR CURRENCY COLLAPSE TO GIVE THE FOOLS ON THE HILL A WAKE UP CALL.
TheLiberalssuckdick 2 years ago
Neither do you apparently. What in the hell are you talking about?!
jefevonQ 2 years ago
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8783674374 2 years ago
The Chinese are not happy about wallstreet, destroying their investments in the U.S.
World War 3 imminent!
BeatsRoyale 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
illuminati = reptilian kin aka demons, jinn, naga, bluebloods, rothschilds, rockefellers, windsors, Al gore, etc who rule secret societies including freemasonry. their agenda:force toxic swine flu vaccines on many, get copenhagen treaty ratified, implement codex alimentaries dec 2009, ww3, stage alien invasion 2010, control weather and mind with HAARP and NASA scalar weapons and microchipped in globalist government. support free energy technology and gardeners!
8783674374 2 years ago
sounds like 2010 will be quite an exciting year.
alien invasion. LMAO!
Ristar85 2 years ago
not a real alien invasion. It will be a fake staged one.
8783674374 2 years ago
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8783674374 2 years ago