Dr Jason Lisle with Answers in Genesis - Creation Evolution Debate

[artison28]

Dr. Jason Lisle, I'm sure you get this Question a lot: If the Hubble Telescope can see distant stars and vast amounts of space, why can't the Hubble Telescope be viewed to see landings on the moon?

[rsmi5480]

@artison28 what the fuck are you talking about?

[jerico641]

"We're supposed to think RATIONALLY"?? Oh, the irony, the painful irony.

[private3737]

@ScholarlyGentleman

Just to let you know, you committed the strawman fallacy several times, and your premises are false, which makes your conclusions unreliable.

[kaywest207]

Dude sounds just like George Lucas... weird.

[csxcsxable]

If god is real then show him. all these guys do is say"what are you afraid of?" and "if it were true then you would not be so mad". Well i say if god is so real then show some EVIDENCE you know what it is don't you. stack the evidence up and there is no real proof of god or jesus. You Tube has Bill Mahar saying that he believes in god and not the bible. How do you do that. as soon as we see that there is no god, I don't know how anyone thinks there is, then the world will be a better place

[ScholarlyGentleman81]

I think we do things JUST like God does.. We burn down cities.. we KILL people.. we make people suffer.. so yeah... we meet that criteria. Also, I find it oddly appealing when people claim to KNOW what God does and/or why. How does this guy know? Because he's a "Doctor"... LOL! I think not.

[Creationcreed]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 A Common mistake athiest and non-christians make is that believing the Bible is true is the same as saying EVERY single command in the Bible applies to all people, for of all times, or ALL of the OTestament applies to all people today. This is not scholarly...if u r lumping commands altogether like that, ur demonstrating that you never investigated this further.

[ScholarlyGentleman81]

@Creationcreed I never said that it applied to all people for all times. Please realize what you are saying here. What about Hitler? If he were alive today would he be "bad"? I mean, he was only killing Jews back then right? So, I would be a fool to say that this thinking about him applies to all of time... right?

Trust me Cc, I am VERY schooled in this topic. I would tell you who you're talking to, but I can't. Please, trust that I am right in the middle of this fake battle...

[Creationcreed]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 The bible would be totally against Hitler, even if he claimed to be a Christian or whatever... Why did you mention the OT events? I disagree with war as well btw.

[Creationcreed]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 - "Also, I find it oddly appealing when people claim to KNOW what God does and/or why. How does this guy know? Because he's a "Doctor"... LOL! I think not." How do you know if anyone is right in their view of God and why he does certain thing?...I guess you wouldn't be able to step into a conversation about what God is like niether right, according to your logic you can't tell anything as well even about what God did in the Bible?

[ScholarlyGentleman81]

Wow.. what nonsense. I would LOVE to debate either one of these guys. Also, I can assure you that "DR." Jason is NOTa formal Doctor.. at all. He received a degree from a house... somewhere.. because he "hung around" long enough.

He said that "Christians have a moral obligation to be logical"... WOW!  Then Christians should accept what has been proven, tested, and APPLIED! to help others.

There is absolutely no "real" debate as to whether evolution is true... NONE.

[hefty798]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 Dr. Lisle graduated at the top of his class in Astro Physics at Colorado University.

[ScholarlyGentleman81]

@hefty798 I stand corrected on where he graduated from. Oh, and by the way, PHYSICS?! What?? Huh? Again, he has ABSOLUTELY no validity in discussing BIOLOGY! He sounds similar to Kent Hovind.. so birds of a feather usually flock together. Regardless, his views are simply WRONG. Denying Evolutionary Theory is similar to denying GRAVITY! Honestly, it is. There is just as much evidence for both. To deny evolution, when we USE what we have learned from studying it, is beyond ridiculous...

[hefty798]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 Gravity is a law which is much different than a theory such as evolution. Implicit in the scientific method is the belief that nothing is absolutely proven for all time. Scientists hold that all truly scientific theories are capable of being falsified. Sometimes, scientists are reluctant to accept that a theory has been falsified. Too often, they hold tenaciously to older ideas. Einstein's theories were hotly debated until overwhelming proof was obtained through

[hefty798]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 astronomical and other observations. You see this is a debate about origins that scientists can only guess at which then they are forced to theorize and guess from their presuppositions (world view). I agree that man has used science to learn much about how God did and is doing things but it is limited by us finite humans using the method. Further I would add that if man was omniscient then we could put all of our trust in our understanding. Since we are not we are

[hefty798]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 forced to look outside of ourselves. Our Creator has a method to know Him spelled out in His Word. But if anyone insists on leaning totally on their finite understanding to understand our origin then they will get the results of that limited perspective. Your faith may be in science which would be unbiased if presuppositional man wasn't interpreting the results. I'm only referring to the areas that can't be emperical such as the origin of man.

[gammafreak]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 It takes more faith to be an evolutionist.Understand the Bible is our foundation, since it's God's word we trust the perfect will of God rather than the Men in this world.The Bible describes the subtleties and nuances of the nature of the world we live in,what has happened in the past and what is going to happen in the future.Rather than a blind faith it is merely a solid worldview billions try to base their entire life on.In my life,the bible has all the answers.men don't.

[ScholarlyGentleman81]

@gammafreak It takes ABSOLUTELY NO FAITH to accept something that is true... Evolution. You can deny it all you want while scientists and many others USE THIS KNOWLEDGE TO HELP YOU! How can you deny something that is USED to help you!? Let me ask you this, "Do you "believe" that the sun exists"? No. You accept it, because it does. Same with Evolution. It IS NOT a "guess"... or "opinion". I assure you that this isn't about "men having the answers" AT ALL! It's about discovering what is.

[gammafreak]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 True to whom? It is merely another world view to take. You believe you came from primordial soup, mono cells to multi cells . . . the science of origins is hardly in the realm of absolute fact. "Proven" maybe, but that is still pushing it, you still can't account for the very first cell in that kettle. That to me is just another faith based worldview, under the guise of fact. The sun is observable and testable. that first cell that got everything "jump started" is not.

[gammafreak]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 Really, all I need to know is in the Bible. When Jesus first came to earth, he fulfilled a crapload of prophecy in the OT. There is still a lot more to be filled, the bible teaches once Israel is born as a nation in one day, redemption is near. It describes the hate the Middle East has for israel! the recent developments make the war of ezekiel 38-39 a matter of time. The Lord's word and promises are all i need, not a text book written by Man.

[ScholarlyGentleman81]

@gammafreak The Bible IS a text book written by "MAN". This "MAN VS GOD" argument is OLD and dead.. and makes no sense. Evolution isn't against God... at all! If The Bible is the only thing you need then why are you on the internet? I hope you don't go to any DOCTORS... because that's what they do! Read "MAN'S" word... OMG it isn't God's word.. so it must be wrong... right? LOL! So.. don't go to a doctor.. or a mechanic.. or well... ANYONE who is educated.. about ANYTHING! LOL!

[all4jesus86]

@ScholarlyGentleman81 evolution was written by man. your arguement that the bible was written by man but yet the same evolution was written by man. So i can either trust the word of God or what evolution says. i will stick to the word of God and his name is Jesus Christ. Believe and repent to the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

[SirChimpsalot]

@gammafreak Of course Man evolved from Ape! Not only do you find dead fossils of these transitory apemen, you can actually make coontact with living apemen! Go check out places like Apelanta, Detroit, Compton, Chimpcago, Nigwaulkee, or any coontry in Subhuman Apefrica. Make sure you're wearing body armor, these chimping niggers are dangerous after all. If that's too far, go check out your local niggerhood that straddles your local Marchin' Looter Koon Boulevard.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Pardon me, but how do you know that the bible is the "perfect word of god"?

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 1 Archeological evidence, 2 Manuscript evidence 3 Prophetic evidence 4 Promises fulfilled 5. Human Nature 6. The fact there are even Christians are a fulfillment of passages in Ezekiel Isaiah, Genesis the whole Bible basically. And by perfect, I mean transmittance of the Ideas originally penned down by the various authors, obviously copyist errors are unavoidable, but the Bible is a one of a kind ancient writing.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Wow; such a lot of replies; I don't quite understand how copying down words which were written a long time before makes them "perfect" or the word of some "god". And how does any of the "evidence" you mentioned point to the bible being perfect?

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 And the more I realized the implications of what the most circulated Book in Human history brings about, the more I saw I would have to turn a blind eye to the myriad of red flags signaling this is not an ordinary text, in order to stay comfy in my sin. months ago, I never gave two thoughts about the Bible. Then something changed in my soul, and now I cannot get enough of it.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Well, you know, they have pills for that these days...

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Compelling argument sir, keep up the courtesy while we converse, and put forth your reasoning. Not mindless heartless rhetoric. Man's wisdom/will is not sufficient to live in harmony with each other, millennia of technological/psychological advance have not ameliorated the very basic fundamentals of what make us Human. Our soul. It's craving for peace and Happiness, security and love. More often the flip side is manifested . . . No pill or therapist can satisfy the need for Truth.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

No, but there might be one out there that can help you. Do you truly believe we live in "harmony" on this planet? What makes us human is millions of years of evolutionary growth, nothing more or less. And speaking of hramony, with all the violence, sadism, murder and other evils in the world today, not to mention natural disasters, why does it appear that your god just sits up there and does nothing to alleviate all this suffering? Please don't say his ways are higher than ours

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 We agree in the fact Humans are wolves to each other. I never stated we live in harmony, I said the opposite. The depths of Human depravity transcend the natural processes of our earth. People expect a utopia if God exists, and use that as an argument against Him. When in reality, it is Humans at the root of the Evil, by our own free will. Evolution cannot account for language, evil, or righteousness, as they go against laws of nature. And please don't say "it just evolved"

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Oh, okay, so he has the power to save starving children and victims of ethnic cleansing, etc., but just chooses to do nothing. Great god you worship, there. Hope you never get into bad trouble and have to rely on him. And if he sees everything but can't act, then he's not much good, is he? And evolution doesn't have a thing in the world to do with "language, evil, or righteousness", those are social traits. Physical evolution simply acts as our biological change.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 In your worldview, the biological evolution gave way to the social traits. So if evolution were true, the social traits had to have a beginning, just the same as the human eye or the DNA code. A brain had to "evolve" to experience the complex array of emotions and social dynamics. But in reality those traits transcend the biological assertion of evolution. 

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

It isn't a "worldview", it's just common sense. You could probably clear all this up for yourself by watching a documentary on human evolution or maybe visiting a museum of natural history in your area. Behavior evolved in our ancestors into what it is now as our brains changed, that's all. Is that so difficult to understand. Now, would you care to elaborate specifically on how those traits "transcend" the biological assertion of evolution?

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 It's very much a worldview, I have watched plenty of the psycho babble pushed in our society today. I don't believe it. I don't believe our moon bounced off something else and just happened to fall into our orbit and the tides slowly evolving etc etc Reading what the scientific minds call truth is quite disturbing. It isn't even science, it's philosophy with a touch of data, hardly the scientific method. Believing slimy plasmoids or whatever are the origin of life is a worldview.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Once you realize there's more than one way to slice this cake of life and why we are here, There's no "natural selection" or logical reason or beneficial trait or any other theory to explain how Humans get it in their head to commit acts of atrocities. Neither is there room in the natural world for someone selflessly giving their life to save another. Yet examples of these permeate our shared history, as do religious beliefs. What's the biological benefit (or lack thereof)

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 of faith? you think humans sometime between "humanoid" and pyramids just evolved a belief system? Wouldn't it make more sense if we were just like every other animal on the planet since they are our ancestors? or our brains happened to evolve from goo to mozart? It does not add up, far from common sense to come to the conclusion we came about through natural processes, ignoring the spirituality of Man, the Evil of Man, and the thirst for truth in every soul.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Animals just go about their lives, doing what they are supposed to do. Frogs croak, bees pollinate. Humans are wholly different and separate from the natural world because of these inherent qualities, is that so hard to understand? it is fallacious to suggest all the complexity of Man can be reduced to one single primordial "spark" and call it absolute truth, subjecting anyone who questions it to ridicule and contempt, a "simpleton".

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 I digress, you are comfy with your worldview, and I with mine, just realize the house built on the ways of this world will crumble. I say this only from the fact of the deception and arrogant assertions of absolute truth made by secular wisdom. I find it convicting the teachings from a 2000 year old book can give me the insight into this world to point out the fallacies of 21st century propaganda.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Uh-huh, yeah. Evolution doesn't explain every trait of human existence and behavior; that's not what it's about. We developed into what we are because we have large brains capable of abstract thought. Our brains can motivate us to do a lot of things, some good, some bad, it's not hard to discern. And yeah, you hit it right on the head, belief systems in the supernatural were wholly developed by primitive man as a way of dealing with the unknown. I dunno why u believe it..

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Think outside the box here, the implications of evolution are we are just an accident. Our lives are of no value, all the signs pointing to Soul are instantly glossed over when polluted with billions of years and all that philosophy. psycho babble. Ask enough questions and life is just a riddle. And the Judeo-Christian theology was revealed through an eternal deity to a nation of people, far from primitive as the psycho babble will have you believe.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

No, we're not accidents; we're the product of species evolution, which actually makes us pretty special, at least the way I define it. And speaking of thinking outside the box, where are these signs that point to a "soul"?  Life is whatever you make of it, if you see it as a riddle, great. If you see it as a mystery, great. That's the advantages of a big brain. Now, the Bronze Age Palestinians sacrificed animals, lived in mud huts, and owned slaves. Pretty Primitive, I'd say.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 You think we progressed as a race? Those bronze agers were so "primitive" They sacrificed animals, we murder our children in the womb. We cheat and steal and plot and massacre just as they did all those years ago. Pride is one of the great flaws in our nature. And denying a soul is like denying the wind. Can you see the wind? you see the effects of it, (whens the last heartbreak you had? joy? anger? compassion?) yet there is nothing to be seen or pointed to.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Is the brain the source of all our emotions and experiences? Or the means for a consciousness ? Just random sparks in our synapses, or an impossibly complex hunk of matter that is the prism in which we view our world. This evolution idea totally glosses over all these important and unexplainable phenomenon in this world, and marks em off as "oh just a brain" or "just an ear, eye etc etc" We can make observations but cannot conceive how these came about.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 other than "it evolved over millions of years" Natural selection or what have you. That is more of a cop out than saying God did it.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 a point in Human History stretching over millenia, where Jews just happened to write hundreds of prophetic passages about a coming messiah. Then independently corroborated by the 12 Jews that started propagating a simple message derived from the ancient scriptures, claiming to have seen God in the flesh. That is what separates "primitive" religion and Truth. A gospel story. Milions have heard it and have been transformed. Supernaturally. Thats why I believe it.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

The stories of Horus and Dionysus closely paralleled the jesus story a long time before the NT was written; and how do you know that millions of people were "supernaturally" transformed by a story they read? How can you possibly prove that?

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Instead of parroting atheist propoganda, do some research on the actual myth. All the "close parallels" are a total and complete fabrication. The ancient myth is just that, a myth. He wasn't resurrected but pieced back together affter being chopped up and thrown all over the nile. No star or virgin birth or any of that. It's a lie meant to turn people away from the truth of Christ.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Well we need only to look to the first 12 apostles. They were going about their lives as fishermen, tax collectors, doctors. Then Jesus happened, and they were transformed into vehicles in which to spread CHristianity. As a result, countless people were thrown to the lions, burned alive chopped up and other unspeakable acts by Nero, just for denying a mans lordship. For being transformed by the Holy Spirit, knowing they would never deny Christ.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 And how else do people go about their daily lives, hear about CHrist and their own lives begin to change? it happened to me. Not by choice, my dad dragged me to church, against my will. And yet, the Lord sent His Spirit to convict me and ever since then, I have been learning about Jesus. And it has given me peace and Joy. A supernatural peace and joy that drives me to try and bring people out of the world and it's lies into Jesus's open arms.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 I feel the same for you sir, The natural moral law is one of the big signs Humans are separate from the world, not by products. That is the heart of evolution, to disconnect souls from reality.Like I said our wisdom cannot explain the fathoms of our own nature and inner workings. And like I said, flesh and blood cannot come to the conclusion God is real and stretching out His hand toward every soul.Only the Spirit of Truth can convict your soul and be your salvation from a dying world

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

The human brain is capable of coming up with all kinds of fantastical flights of fancy, including the one you're describing. And how can you possibly prove to anyone that something as intangible as a "soul" exists? If it does, can you pinpoint where it's located say, in your body for instance?

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 You are looking at the brain as if you understand it. We don't understand our own brains. So how can we make an unfalsifiable claim there is no soul? We don't see radio waves, yet we know what they are, nor do we see the jet stream or the life giving oxygen and nitrogen, but we see the effects of them being there. "If I dont see it it doesn't exist" is an incredibly fallacious argument and worldview. Your soul is what hurts when you find out your mom died. It's not your brain.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 We can pinpoint the chemicals synapses, and regions, but that does nothing to explain the feeling of it. It transcends those sparks and chemicals. To reduce it to oh the feeling is just my brain" or "his brain is just weird, thats why he microwaved her baby" There is something else at work here, it isnt an opinion, these are things that are in every Human. We can learn and learn and learn and never realize the truth.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 The change in my life is a direct reference to Matt. 16

And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

I know Jesus walked this earth 2000 years ago. Even Richard Dawkins will concede that. I know he will judge the living and the dead one day, that is a supernatural conclusion in the minds of countless believers.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Well, first, it doesn't matter if "countless" believers buy into the bible or not, that still doesn't make it true. Countless people read Harry Potter books, too, you know. Now, how is all this proving that the bible is "perfect"? Try to answer with less than 3 bible verses, if possible...

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 good straw man. Harry potter is not comparable to literature of antiquity. The Smithsonian institution says the Bible is the most accurate book concerning ancient history, every archeological dig has only confirmed everything the Bible talks about. Perfect track record concerning geography, kings, falls and rises of nations. All before GPS, it is the most printed book in Human history for a reason. No other book compares to it

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Also take into account that the Bible deals specifically with one nation, Israel. One only needs to look at the history of the nation of israel, and maybe you can see this book is more than just a book. How many books "Harry Potter" or other, prophesies the nation of israel being destroyed, inhabitants being led captive to all nations, then being brought back into their homeland "out of the nations" (UN) "being born in one day". I referenced only 2 scriptures per your request.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Or that the eventual one world order would be the last kingdom in which Humans try to govern themselves? Look up Council on Foreign Relations and tell me that prophecy written down millenia ago is wrong.

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Aww, dude, that's just too many comments, too much nonsense, to get into on a Friday night. I'm gonna go out now, take in a movie, grab a few beers maybe, and relax a little, and answer all this tomorrow or the next day (I'm free on Sundays). Do me a favor though; between now and then, hold off on the comments and give me a chance to respond to your last, what is it, 8 or so comments, okay? Thanks.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 ok, we can take it to pm if you like, I get on a roll man haha can't stop. Addicted to the shindig. Have a good safe night.

[gammafreak]

@jerico641 Back to the Bible, there are a MILLION reasons to disregard it. That's the kicker! After being born again of the Holy Spirit, there's only ONE reason to regard it as a literal road map on how to know an eternal deity and attain salvation and keep it and fulfill your purpose in life. To attain supernatural wisdom and peace and love and letting it shine and sanctify your depraved mind. I read it every day, God always reveals spiritual truths that apply to my life and make me go "woow!!"

[jerico641]

@gammafreak

Do you go "woow" at certain times of the day, or just randomly? Just curious. You should explore those million reasons a little closer...

PS: None of this proves "perfection"

[razrX]

this guy is not a biologist right?