تهجير اليهود من العراق جريمة كبرى ولا احد يدري لمصلحة من كل هذ? فهولاء عاشوا في العراق لاكثر من 2000 عام ومن الاقوام العراقية الاصيلة ولهم تاريخ طويل في المنطقة . فما علاقة اليهود العراقيين بانشاء دولة اسرائيل؟ من قبل الصهيونية العالمية وبريطانيا؟ ان معاملة المواطنين على اساس الدين والقومية لجريمة كبرى. وان مثل هذه الكليبات (افلام) يثير شجوني واتاسف على عقلية حكام العراق الخونة
its funny. anything broadcasted by the british seems to inevitably hold an anti-israel stance, its pathetic. its as if the 1 and only, small jewish state in the world is to be attacked subtly & directly in no relation to its character or acts.
Il faut comme même l'avouer; les sionistes ont réussi leur projet. Ils ont réussi à séculariser et à nationaliser le Judaisme. Le coeur de sionisme étant le nationalisme laïque et agressive est une importation directe de la tradition puritaine chrétiènne. Ils ont tout simplement suivi l'exemple des jeunes Turcs : Homogénéisation de l'identité, identités fabriquées et guerres archéologiques de l'identité.
@ShmorgelBorgel Je ne pense pas que t'es confortable avec le Francais, alors je retourne a l'Anglais. First of all, you didn't understand me and I can't explain myself if you don't know History.I told you we have abused History. Anyway that comment wasn't addressed to you.You called me among other things a bigot. You want to know the truth, it is not up to me to decide if the jews have the right to have a state on Palestine, it is not me who could give Israel legitimacy. It is not up to me.
I read French, but I don't write or speak it well. I am also well-versed in history. (In English, btw, one need not capitalize proper nouns, unlike German. It's pretentious to do so.) Whether the comment was addressed to me or not, I have the same right to publicly respond to comments made on public fora as anybody else. You are right, it is not up to you to decide if the Jews have a right to a sovereign state of their own, it is up to us as a national collective, and we have so decided.
I do understand your comment, and I disagree with it. I contend that Jews have had a collective understanding of themselves as a nation, and not merely members of a religious confession who are nationals of the states in which they reside, since before the emergence of modern political Zionism, and preceding the phenomenon that we call "modern nationalism." Political Zionism is a programmatic expression of the always-latent national sentiment inherent in Judaism.
The only way an extreme anti-Zionist such as yourself can be redeemed from the label of bigotry against Jews is if you can prove that you believe that absolutely no nation should exist. If such is your belief, then you can be consistent and say that you believe the Jews, just like every other nation, must not have the right to national self-determination without being a bigot. However, you clearly seem to uphold the right of other national groups to retain their national identity.
@ShmorgelBorgel However are you aware of what you are doing? You are responding to every comment present on this page that do not hold to your views on Zionism . You defend, preach zionism, you insult the last jew of Babylon. I wonder when were you elected to be the guardian of this page, I surely didn't vote.
I have as much right to comment on an open, unmoderated forum and respond to or debate assertions that I disagree with as much as anybody else here. Why do you think *YOU* are the guardian of the page? I have also answered in a civil way racist provocations from the likes of the person who refers to himself as "nejiboud" and babbles about "gene purity" and challenged people like xgotfiveonitx's false statement that Yitzhak Rabin condemned Zionism; with no answer.
@ShmorgelBorgel Haha you have all the rights, thats not the point. You are behaving like you own this page. You own the part2 too, btw. And no I am not a guardian of any page, i'll be wasting my time.
If you have read what I wrote on part 2, I was last there two years ago, until yesterday. I am the first to admit that I lack the talent to respond in succinct Twitter-type posts and I don't have the ability to convey what I wish to convey in that format. Unless there are rules about how many comments one may make and the length of such comments, I've done nothing wrong. I have also engaged with and responded in a civil manner, even when provoked with deprecatory language.
Well, unless there are clearly set-out rules about the amount of posts and the lengths of same, and moderation to enforce those rules, I have done nothing wrong. If someone else wants to exceed my posts, I think there is nothing stopping them. You will see that almost all of my posts have initially been in response to what someone else said.
@ShmorgelBorgel I am not speaking of any rules. I am not even telling you what to do. I am only observing. However I must say that even if I don't agree with what you are writing you respond in a civil matter which is very rare on Internet.
My intent is not to dominate or control the page. If there were rules limiting the amount or length of posts, I would obey them. (They might not be a bad idea.) As I said, I lack the talent to answer in short "Twitter"-type bursts and convey what I wish to convey and respond to things people write. (Some people have that talent, I do not.) Therefore, when something agitates me, I write at length. Believe it or not, I am forced to edit my posts for brevity when I come up the limit.
I can definitely understand anti-Zionism as being not being bigoted against Jews when an anti-Zionist belief is an anarchist who consistently condemns *all* forms of nationalism. I, for one, celebrate the existence of diverse cultures with their own unique forms of collective national expression--personally, I would not like to live in a homogeneous world--but I'm sympathetic to the vision of no borders or passports at all. If such a world existed, there would be no need for Israel.
"I can definitely understand anti-Zionism as being not being bigoted against Jews *when one with such* anti-Zionist belief is an anarchist who consistently condemns *all* forms of nationalism"
@ShmorgelBorgel You don't even know my views about Politics and you conclude that I am an anarchist, how do you that? I didn't even mentionned Politic and its role. I believe in good governance, in accountability,in transparency, in rights,in Wealth and Power Sharing, does that me an anarchist? Is it because of my username? I have no reason to be a Zionist and let me be clear when I say Zionists I do not mean Jews.
"You don't even know my views about Politics and you conclude that I am an anarchist, how do you that?"
I never said you were an anarchist. I made a statement that the only way that *anybody* can take a principled stand against Zionism (aka Jewish nationalism) without being an anti-Jewish bigot is if they are against *ALL* nationalisms. You yourself said you are not against all nationalisms. To me, that means you are singling out Jewish nationalism for special reproach.
@ShmorgelBorgel I am anti-zionist. I am not an anarchist. For you, these two statements mean that I am against Jews. Let me tell you my approach. I am anti-zioinist and am not an anarchist. I have no problem with nationalism although I never understood that sentiment. I believe in a state that represent its citizens and zionism can not give that. The idea of zionism is fundamentally a conceptualisation of differential rights for Jew and non-Jew.
"I believe in a state that represent its citizens and zionism can not give that. "
Israel as a Jewish state can represent its non-Jewish citizens, just as Greece can represent its non-ethnic Greek citizens (Greece has large Roma, Turkish, Albanian, Jewish and Macedonian minorities) and can still be "the Hellenic Republic." How can Finland represent its ethnic Swedish citizens? How does Japan represent its ethnic Korean citizens?
@ShmorgelBorgel Because Finland or Japan are not zionist states. The objective of Israeli government is not a jewish state but a zionist one. It seems that it explains why the Palestinian and western understanding of Israeli thinking is wrong. It is believed that Israel wanted to maintain a Jewish ‘majority’ and that would inevitably bring a palestinian state. However a zionist state is open to any jew around the globe therefore it must conserve land and potential water resources.
"The idea of zionism is fundamentally a conceptualisation of differential rights for Jew and non-Jew. "
And that one differential right is that as a Jewish state, only Jewish immigrants are entitled to automatic citizenship (although many non-Jewish immigrants often qualify for naturalization as Israeli citizens), just as Greece extends automatic citizenship to people of Greek ancestry, and Ireland to people of Irish ancestry, etc. Otherwise, there are no laws differentiating between citizens.
@ShmorgelBorgel Plus Israel’s settlements in the West Bank were about land, and control over water resources. Israel has been able to maintain differential rights for Jews and non-Jews because Israel’s borders are not fixed. When israel is to be formalized as a state, the minority within would agitate for equal rights. The present ambiguous situation permet for Israel to maintain the Status quo.
Well, first of all, pretty much all Jews are descended from origins in the Middle East-- if you go back far enough, but in addition, you can find many Jews in the United States whose families immigrated to the USA directly from the Middle East. Brooklyn, NY, for instance, has a very large Syrian-Jewish community (I am partially descended from it), as well as many Yemenite Jews, Egyptians, Moroccans and Lebanese . If you go to Queens, you find many Iraqi Jews.
@ShmorgelBorgel yes those are arab jews, of which you are one. but going on your argument, its like saying if you go back far enough you can find the brown skin indian who descended of white european aryans. that doesnt make indians europeans does it? middle eastern jews are racially, culturally, ethnically, food, music, even language are arab and something american jews have nothing in common with. arab jews dont eat bagels and dont speak yiddish and have more in common with palestinians.
"yes those are arab jews, of which you are one. "
Nope. You have no right to call me an "Arab" Jew. Jews were never accepted into the pan-Arabic national movement and the Jews of Arab countries in their masses typically identified with Zionism and not Arab nationalism. Although I am proud of my partial Syrian Jewish heritage and interested in learning Arabic, I will never be an Arab, and neither were the half of my father's Syrian jewish relatievs who spoke Arabic fluently.
"ts like saying if you go back far enough you can find the brown skin indian who descend"
Actually, anthropologically speaking, I believe you have it backwards. Most Europeans' ancestors originally were dark-skinned, even the lightest Swededs(we all come from Africa if you go back far enough).
"that doesnt make indians europeans does it? "
Ashkenazi Jews of Europe were traditionally rejected by the Christian Europeans as alien Middle Easterners, because that is the origin of Ashkenazim
"even language are arab and something american jews have nothing in common with. arab jews dont eat bagels and dont speak yiddish"
You weren't paying attention. Many American Jews are Mizrahim. I was raised in NY, and Sephardi/Mizrahi Jews are about 15-20% of the population in NY. Go to certain neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and Jews of Syrian heritage dominate. These people are AMERICAN Jews. And guess what? They eat bagels. Everybody in NY eats bagels. Chinese and Arabs eat bagels in NY too.
When you write "racially" you are straying into dangerous area. There's no such thing really as an Arab "race". Arabs can be different races, because Arab culture and language spread amongst different ethnic groups and races throughout the Middle East and North Africa. That said, if you are going to talk about ancestry, Ashkenazim have a large degree of Middle Eastern ancestry and share much common descent with fellow Jews from Iraq, Syria, Yemen, etc.
@ShmorgelBorgel arabs can be muslim, christian and guess what else? jewish too. and arab jews pre-date islam. as for the european jews, they are descendants of converts in an ancient jewish kingdom, whose king converted. nyt themselves report that they hold no middle eastern dna in them. jews are not a race, but a religion and nothing more. these middle eastern jews are arabs, just like middle eastern christians, aside from assyrian christians.
"arabs can be muslim, christian and guess what else? jewish too. and arab jews pre-date islam. "
Jews of the Middle East certainly were present in the region predating Islam. However, the vast majority of Jews from Arab countries don't identify with Arab peoples or nations, which is what it means to be Arab. Moreover, the pan-Arab national movements such as the Ba'ath party excluded Jews from participation or leadership. The Jewish masses in Arab lands were, however, drawn to Zionism.
"as for the european jews, they are descendants of converts in an ancient jewish kingdom, whose king converted"
You are referring to the Khazars, a medieval (not ancient) Central Asian kingdom whose king (and some of the nobility) converted to Judaism. While it is likely that *some* European Jews (and Middle Eastern Jews as well) have *some* Khazar descent, the fact is that they contributed only a limited way to the European Jewish gene pool.
"nyt themselves report that they hold no middle eastern dna in them."
Wow, the New York Times itself? Here is an article excerpted from the NYT summarizing recent findings:
"Studies Show Jews’ Genetic Similarity - By NICHOLAS WADE
Published: June 9, 2010-Jewish communities in Europe and the Middle East share many genes inherited from the ancestral Jewish population that lived in the Middle East some 3,000 years ago, even though each community also carries genes from other sources"
" jews are not a race, but a religion and nothing more. "
The Jews are a people and a nation (and no, they are not a "race", nobody intelligent thinks in terms of "race" ). Judaism, however, is a religion. (It is the historic national religion of the Jewish people, though sometimes people with no Jewish ancestry convert to it and thereby join the Jewish people, usually such people or their descendants marry with people who are of Jewish ancestry and descent.)
"jews are not a race, but a religion and nothing more."
Nevertheless, although people who convert to and accept the Jewish religion, aka "Judaism" join the Jewish nation by doing so, one can be Jewish solely by ancestry without believing in or observing Jewish religion. I am a Jew by nationality. As an agnostic leaning towards atheism, I don't accept much Jewish religious dogma, yet I am a Jew. One can be an agnostic Jew, but there is no such thing as an agnostic
As I said, Jews are a people and a national unit, not a race, just as Arabs are not a "race". In a limited sense, Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula, but over the centuries many other different ethnic and racial groupings have become Arabized. A Khaleeji or Hejazi Arab looks quite different than a fair Syrian or Lebanese Arab, or from a Sudani Arab, or from a descendant of Arabized Berbers from Morocco, yet they all call themselves "Arabs" today.
Although most of the descendants of the Amazegh, the Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians have all had Arabic language and culture imposed on them and today regard themselves as Arabs, for the most part, the one group that has lived in the Middle East for generations without giving up its unique national identity have been the Jews. Jews in Iraq, Syria and Morocco feel closer to their fellow Jews from Poland, Germany, and Hungary than they do with Muslim Arabs. It's a fact.
these jewish people did not want at all at first to goto isreal but had to flee to stay alive. Otherwise they risk death as evidence from this video. You can kill someone with a bullet or simply neglect them. A very powerful video. Save our brothers and sisters from certain death.
As Israel I have not only to pay a lot of taxes in order to pay the needs of this new comer old Jew to Israel ( who has never contributed anything to this state) but also to hear how he serves the agenda of the enemies of mycountry.
Everybody in Israel is free to leave this country.I am not sure where he could find a better shelter.
@elyubl You fail to see the tragedy of the story. It's not about a man's dream or "agenda". It is about how could many jews reject their heritages, their origins to the point to break all ties with their arabs brothers whom they have centuries of history with? It's realising that what zionism succeeded in doing is to separate even more the people. Anyting or anyone who separate people no matter who they are is dangerous for everybody. But you only seem to worry about your taxes.
"It is about how could many jews reject their heritages, their origins to the point to break all ties with their arabs brothers whom they have centuries of history with? "
You mean centuries of history of being a discriminated second-class ethnic and religious minority? Centuries of history of sporadic riots ,massacres and rapes in the Harat al Yahud?
"It's realising that what zionism succeeded in doing is to separate even more the people. " Zionism unites people, Jews descended from the Middle Eastern diaspora now are united with Jews descended from the European diaspora and living in the common ancestral homeland, Israel. My own flesh and blood is alive because of Zionism. My sister is descended from Syrian/Russian/Hungarian Jews, she has children with her Yemenite Jewish husband. My fiancee is 1/2 Tunisian,1/2 Yemenite Jewish.
@ShmorgelBorgel I find it beatifull all the heritage that are part of your identity.But I stand by my point that Zionism is destructive,exclusive and tribally oriented.I know the history of Zionism and there is nothing united about it.I know how can Israelis say that Zionism saved them and is the only ideology than can protect them but it is an ideology that deprive one's from his humanity. I believe when we harm people we end up hurting ourselves even more.The past always come back to hunt us.
@TheRivoluzione well said. its outdated and focuses too much on 19th century european jewry. even yitzak rabin himself said 'its time to accept a post-zionist era'. that means a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious country, not one that belongs to only one group alone.
"its outdated and focuses too much on 19th century european jewry."
Modern political Zionism as a movement was started by Jews in Europe in the 19th century in reaction to European anti-Semitism and inspired by 19th century nationalist movements,but the Zionist impulse is part and parcel of Judaism going back to the very beginning. Moreover, the Zionist message of Jewish renewal and return homeland resonated stongly with Mizrahi/Sephardic Jews of the Middle East/North Africa in the 20th century.
"even yitzak rabin himself said 'its time to accept a post-zionist era'."
Rabin never said any such thing. I challenge you to show me a reliable source to that alleged quote. Rabin was a strong Zionist who realized the necessity of creating a Palestinian Arab state to ensure the survival of Israel as a Jewish state.
"that means a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious country, not one that belongs to only one group alone."
Israel is already all those things, and it is also a Jewish state. There is no contradiction in it being a Jewish state that offers equal civic and democratic rights to the non-Jewish minority, which is about 20% of the population. Israeli Muslims, Christians and Druze have served as cabinet ministers, Supreme Court justices, army generals, and ambassadors.
"But I stand by my point that Zionism is destructive,exclusive and tribally oriented."
Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people and Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people. When every other nation-state existing today gives up its unique national identity, when states like Japan, Finland, Albania, Korea, say they don't represent their respective nationalities (this goes for ALL the Arab states as well), then Israel should too. But we won't be the first!
"I know the history of Zionism and there is nothing united about it.I"
Well, Jews have always had diversities of opinion (we always say 2 Jews = 3 opinions, but some people argue that it's 3 Jews, 4 opinions!)-- and Zionism is a very Jewish movement, nourished primarily from Judaism. There have always been different ideological currents and approaches within Zionism, because it's not a totalitarian movement. There's no Zionist equivalent of Qaddafi's "Green Book".
@ShmorgelBorgel I can always write down what the founders of Zionism said about Jews and how everthing they did followed the famous aphorism :the end justify the means, but I believe I will bore you. I think you already know. Let me just say that there is nothing more anti-Semitic than Zionism.
"I can always write down what the founders of Zionism said about Jews and how everything they did followed the famous aphorism :the end justify the means, "
First of all, you are talking about modern political Zionism, i.e., the programmatic movement to reestablish Jewish sovereignty in their own nation-state, because the Zionist ideas that Jews collectively constitute a nation and are deserving of sovereignty in their own land goes to the very roots of Jewishness. (CT'D)
@ShmorgelBorgel You don't see the devastating consequences of that aphorism. Many of us still don't know and none of us know what will be the ultimate price for it.
"You don't see the devastating consequences of that aphorism. "
The worst thing that can be said of Zionism is it is responsible for creating Palestinian Arab nationalism. "Palestinians" as a nation had no collective national identity until the confrontation with Jewish nationalism, i.e., Zionism.
Regardless, the "founders" of Zionism were a diverse ideological bunch, whose approaches to what Zionism's goals should be varied widely. Certainly, they did not begin and end with Herzxl or Max Nordau, but they included Ahad Ha'am (who only wanted the Jews to have a "spiritual center") and Zionist supporters of binationalism such as Judah Magnes or Arthur Ruppin who wanted Israel to be a Jewish/Arab state. The latter may have been delusional, but they were certainly Zionist.
"it is an ideology that deprive one's from his humanity."
It is an ideology that says Jews, just like every other people in the world, have a right to political self-determination. Shockingly inhumane, no?
If you are saying that Jews should be denied this right, then either (A) you are an anarchist who believes that no such thing as a nation-state should exist and that countries like Japan, Finland ,Thailand, Greece or a Palestinian Arab state should not exist or (B), a bigot.
@ShmorgelBorgel I'm neither but you can always try. Zionism is a secular mouvement but funny enough it transforms the Bible from a religious text into a land registry. It is a colonial racist philosophy that believes that Jews are entitled to a national home in Zion (Palestine) at the expense of the Palestinian people. Judaism is a religion practiced by the Jewish people which in contrary to Zionism has at its core a set of moral values and ethical principles. Zionism makes a mockery of it.
Well, apparently you do then support the national aspirations of the Palestinian Arab people to have a state while denying that the Jews have that same right. That would, in fact, make you a bigot. Since I am not a hypocrite I recognize that the Palestinian Arabs do have a legitimate right to national self-determination (even though historically speaking, the concept of a "Palestinian" nation is a very recent phenomenon, but they do not have the right to have a state at my expense.
@ShmorgelBorgel You just used my words but turn the argument on your side.Zionists have clearly a political agenda and the past is an important instrument in this game. By controling the past, you can control the futur. I understood that History is too a concept that has been abused by man. I don't merely mean telling lies or the art of propaganda but about History being removed from its position. History is supposed to be a dynamic concept and is a reminder of who we really are, not a fantasy.
Is this how you justify the creation of a history of a people that was never heard of 5 decades ago, the "Palestinians"? Again, I happen to support their right to national self-determination on a territory of their own, but the existence of a culturally distinct national unit that is "Palestinian" is a recent phenomenon and simply doesn't exist in history, unless you believe that the past is dynamic and fluid.
"Zionism is a secular movement but funny enough it transforms the Bible from a religious text into a land registry...Judaism is ...contrary to Zionism "
For secular Jews, Zionism can be secular, for religious Jews it is a religious movement. Modern political Zionism is secular in the sense that it set out to achieve its goals through secular means, and non-reliance on miraculous divine intervention. Nevertheless, Zionism inheres in Judaism, which is a national religion.
@ShmorgelBorgel I have a two sided jacket. One side for very rainy days, you know and the other side for nice and shiny days....I see you see Zionism as a flexible philosophy if such concept exist, as a wide ideology that include me and someone that would disagree with my definition of the essence of man. This is called Doublethink. To believe in two contradictory beliefs at the same time and accept both of them. I don't know how you succeed in doing if it is not by lying to yourself.
"I see you see Zionism as a flexible philosophy if such concept exist, as a wide ideology"
I don't see Zionism as a "philosophy" at all, but a practical movement to achieve an absolute good, the reestablishment of sovereignty for the Jews in their homeland. There have been many ideological approaches within Zionism, and one thing in common to all is that Jews constitute a nation, something that is self-evident to me.
"Judaism is a religion practiced by the Jewish people which in contrary to Zionism has at its core a set of moral values and ethical principles."
If you knew anything about the Jewish religion, you would know that the thrice-daily prayers of that religion constantly plea for the ingathering and return of the Jewish People to its ancestral home in Zion and the reestablishment of Israel. These same prayers were fervently said by religious Jews in Baghdad and Warsaw alike for centuries.
@ShmorgelBorgel Yes and the true Torah Jews completely disagree with the existence of the state of Israel. The state comes with a condition and you know it. You are speaking of an interpretation of the religion such as Zionism is doing with its biblically orientated precept.
"Yes and the true Torah Jews completely disagree with the existence of the state of Israel." Tell me, what gives you the right as as a non-Jew to decide what a "true Torah Jew" is? One minority vehemently anti-Zionist fringe group, Neturei Karta, arrogantly states they are the only so-called "True Torah Judaism". Meanwhile, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews today are Zionist or sympathetic to it, and also call themselves Torah Jews. Why do you think you know who the "real" Torah Jews are?
"You are speaking of an interpretation of the religion such as Zionism is doing with its biblically orientated precept." First of all, I am a secular agnostic person, and I dislike those religious Zionists who insist that Israel must retain all of the disputed post-1967 territories and think they are hastening the Messiah and ushering in a Jewish kingdom by doing so as dangerous fanatics. I disagree with their vision of what a Jewish state means, but I won't deny they are Zionists.
"true Torah Jews completely disagree with the existence of the state of Israel. "
It astounds me that you know what "True Torah Jews" are. Orthodox religious Zionists in Gush Emunim, also think of themselves as "True Torah Jews" and are as scrupulous in their observance of the commandments as the Neturei Karta are. What makes you, a non-Jew, pick Neturei Karta as more authentic?
It's as arrogant as me declaring which is "true Islam", bin Laden's ultra Salafism or a mystic peaceful Sufi sect.
"You fail to see the tragedy of the story...It is about how could many jews reject their heritages,"
The tragedy of the story is that Mr Levy is an old fool who decades ago could've accompanied his family to Israel and contribute to Israeli society, but chose to remain behind in an Arab dictatorship largely because of a family feud and a spurned love. As an old man, he was spirited out of a chaotic, post-Saddam Iraq, and he is supported by my and elyubi's taxes, but prefers to shit all over us.
Before the influx of Jews from Europe and the US, locals of the Middle East were living in harmony. Rabbinical Judaism and Zionism are anti-Gentile.
This Jew embraced all religions like Khalil Gibran who wrote: I love you at prayer in your mosque, at your worship in your synagogue, at your devotions in your church; for you and I are the sons of one religion -- the spirit. ```
"Before the influx of Jews from Europe and the US, locals of the Middle East were living in harmony."
That's like saying that before the Civil Rights Movement, the blacks in the South lived in harmony with the whites, as long as they didn't get any "uppity" ideas in their heads.
"Rabbinical Judaism and Zionism are anti-Gentile." Jews of the Middle East, save for the tiny Karaite community, have practiced Rabbinical Judaism for the past 2,000 years. Middle eastern Jews are also proud Zionists
@ShmorgelBorgel blacks never demanded a seperate state. if anything its isreali zionism which denies civil rights to non-jews. you as an american should not have a right to isreali citizenship simply based on your religion, the people who live there do.
Actually, some have. Nevertheless, American nationalism is based on shared civic ideal, not nationality. That's all well and good, but most other states are nationality-based. Blacks in the US deserved equal protection based in the US Constitution, not a separate black state. Jews in the Middle East, like their fellow Jews in Europe, were marginalized and discriminated against in those societies and have a right to self-determination in their homeland.
"you as an american should not have a right to isreali citizenship simply based on your religion, the people who live there do. "
I, as a Jew (not "as an American"), have a right to Israeli citizenship like any other Jew. That's a matter between me, a Jew, and my government, that of the State of Israel, and no concern of yours, really. Likewise, Ireland extends citizenship to people of Irish descent even if they're born in the USA, Australia or Argentina; that's no concern of mine.
@ShmorgelBorgel you live in america, not isreal. america is your govt. not isreals. irish are an ethnicity, jews are not. just a religion and nothing more. like i said the people who live there have right to citizenship, not foreigners who have never even set foot on its soil. the brits should quit northern ireland for the same reason, there is nothing secular about isreal or n.ireland. if you support secularism you wouldnt support a state solely based on religion. obviously you are a fanatic.
Actually, I live in Israel, what makes you think I live in the US?
"america is your govt. not isreals. "
I am an Israeli citizen, I hold an Israeli ID and passport, I pay Israeli taxes, I serve in the Israeli Army reserves and I vote in Israeli elections. Ergo, Israel is my government. I also hold US citizenship because I happened to have been born in that country, but I regard myself as an Israeli first.
"like i said the people who live there have right to citizenship, not foreigners who have never even set foot on its soil."
You are confused. Jews living abroad cannot gain Israeli citizenship without moving to Israel first, although children of Israeli citizens (of whatever religion) are Israeli citizens at birth even when born abroad. I actually fall into the second category, my father had Israeli citizenship before I was born, therefore I and my siblings were Israeli citizens at birth.
"the brits should quit northern ireland for the same reason, there is nothing secular about isreal or n.ireland. "
A majority of the population of Northern Ireland wish to remain British citizens, I think that's good enough reason for the British to hold on to Northern Ireland, although it's of no relevance to me as an Israeli Jew living in Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, nor to to you as a Muslim American in Chicago .
Unlike you, I don't presume to dictate foreign policy to other countries.
It's really not for you to say that Jews are "just" a religion. The fact is that although there is such a thing as converting to Judaism (the religion), most Jews share common descent to the same piece of territory, and we have historical, linguistic, and cultural characteristics in common besides religion, the attributes that define nationality. Not only do Jews view themselves as members of the same nation, they have been so viewed by others.
"if you support secularism you wouldnt support a state solely based on religion. obviously you are a fanatic."
Obviously, I am secular. I was typing away at my computer on the Jewish Sabbath, and it is forbidden for religious Jews to use electricity on Shabbat. Israel has never been a "state solely based on religion", its founding generation of politicians were largely secular people. One can be a Jew whether or not one follows Judaism, and Israel is a country for all Jews.
It's sad but it seems that we are determined to make life difficult for others whatever the price. Why can't we see what is in front of us instead of living in a World of illusions?
It's sad but it seems that we are determined to make life difficult for others whatever the price. Why can't we see what is in front of us instead of living in a World of illusions?
The Arab and Jews lived once as brothers, many of Arab risk and hide Jews from prescution of NS. This man could save his live, but who care about fomillions dead Iraqies, maybe just Wolfowitz and Perl and so on.
Thanks for sharing this Clip very well done coverage.. Walla i am muslim and I feel depely sorry to what has happened to this country and the jews. Walla these pple were one of the most loyal people to Iraq.. Until this day this community in Israel still remember Iraq.. How unfortunt iraq is by losing these people that have such a deap history in Iraq.. Very sad
Watching this at 4 in the morning, and I can't stop crying, what a tragedy! Mizrahim/Arab Jews had to discard their traditions and authentic Middle Eastern Jewishness and were forced to accept the white European Ashkenazi ways in Israel. They faced so much discrimination in Israel to this day.
"Mizrahim/Arab Jews had to discard their traditions and authentic Middle Eastern Jewishnes"
Absolutely false.Mizrahi Jewish culture flourish es in Israel like nowhere else. The places where Mizrahi Jewish culture is dead are in the Arab countries.
"and were forced to accept the white European Ashkenazi ways"
It would come as a surprise to my Syrian-Jewish relations in Brooklyn and Israel, that they are not white! LOL
Sure they are white, no wonder there was so much racism from white European Jews against Arab Jews/Mizrahim that they had to form their own Black Panther Movement for protection. Keep the myths alive, but I know the truth.
"Sure they are white, no wonder there was so much racism from white European Jews" Keep the myths alive, but I know the truth."
You know nothing. FYI, Arabs can be black, brown and WHITE; likewise Jews from Arab lands. Half of my father's family are Syrian Jews, many of them are red-haired, blue eyed and light-skinned, but I have
DARK-skinned ASHKENAZIi relatives too. Sure there was discrimination against Mizrahi immigrants in the early years of Israel. But it's nothing to do with color.
But meanwhile, here in Israel Mizrahi Jewish culture thrives and flourishes., in music, food, language, religion. I am myself part-Mizrahi.
But the places where Mizrahi Jewish culture is basically completely extinct are the Arab lands--with just a few shrinking remnants in Tunis, Morocco and Iran.
"Arab Jews/Mizrahim that they had to form their own Black Panther Movement for protection"
The Israeli Black Panther movement was a movement on the fringe of the fringe, it was just copying ideas from the American Black Panther movement and radical left styles and lingo. That is not to say that there were serious issues that negatively affected people of Mizrahi background in the 1960s/1970s, but the truth is the "Panterim Sheorim" were a bunch of misfits.
No, the racist AshkeNazis were and are the misfits. If they hate the Middle East and Middle Eastern culture and people so much, they can go right back to Poland and Russia and Germany where they belong with their bagels.
"the racist AshkeNazis were and are the misfits" You're another ignoramus misfit spewing racial hatred. The Panterim SheHorim were indeed a fringe group who only had miniscule support amongst Mizrahi/Sefaradee Jews in Israel. In reality, they had more support from left-wing university-educated Ashkenazim who thought they were supporting a "radical" cause (similar to the way some extreme-left whites and some cultural elites Jews backed the American Black Panthers in the 1960s-70s) . (CT'D.)
The truth is, though that Mizrahi/Sefaradi Jews in Israel overall tend to vote for and support right-wing Zionist political parties and causes. Charlie Bitton's so-called "Black Panther" party in Israel was an abberation, as a left-wing group claiming a Mizrahi constituency. Far more Mizrahi Jews voted for Meir Kahane's anti-Arab Kach party in the 1980s than they did for the "Panthers". And today, go to any Mizrahi-dominated neighborhood in Israel and you see that they are Likud strongholds.
"If they hate the Middle East and Middle Eastern culture and people so much,"
Ashkenazi Jews are literally of the Middle East, most of their ancestry stems from Middle Eastern origins (confirmed by DNA testing), Ashkenazi Jews, like all Jews, share in the Hebraic cultural linguistic heritage (FYI Hebrew, the language of all Jews, belongs to Ashkenazim, Mizrahim, Sefaradeem, and is a Middle Eastern language) and Ashkenazi Jews have led the linguistic revival of that language.
"they can go right back to Poland and Russia and Germany where they belong with their bagels."
No, Jews of all backgrounds will stay in an Israeli Jewish state, where Ashkenazi Jews mix, mingle and marry with their brothers and sisters, the Mizrahi and Sefaradi Jews in a common Jewish Hebrew-speaking homeland, where Israelis of all backgrounds enjoy bagels, pita, hummous, jachnoun, gefilte fish, malawech, sabiH, tzimmes, and rugelach alike. All Israelis of all backgrounds eat all kinds of food.
"Yeah, I'm sure the ugly Russki "Jews" were sitting around in Siberia with Putin eating Hummus and Falafel all these hundreds of years lol"
Mr Racist Ignoramus, the Jews of Russia don't originate from Siberia, and Jews from Russia are ethnically distinct from Russians. Few Jews lived under Russian rule until Poland was annexed by Russia, and the ancestors of most Jews in Poland arrived there from German-speaking lands in the Middle Ages; they migrated to those areas from the Middle East.
Regardless, all kinds of Jews live in Israel. Half of the Israeli Jewish population is of Mizrahi/Sephardic origin; and Mizrahi people in Israel enjoy food of the Ashkenazi diaspora like bagels (even though you could barely get a decent bagel in Israel as recently as the 1990s), rogelach, gefilte fish, cholent and tzimmes; likewise, Ashkenazi Jews eat falafel, humus, jachnun and shakshuka. Also Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Israelis all marry each other.
All Jews are of the same nation, whether Ashkenazi, Sephardi or Mizrahi. We share a common descent and it is normal that we all marry and mix with each other in Israel, where we speak the Hebrew language that is our common heritage and live on our ancestral soul.
Common descent...sure! No wonder white Jews were so delighted to meet Middle Eastern Jews that they sprayed them with DDT and decades of Nazi style racist policies towards the Mizrahim. Israeli Hebrew is not even close to Biblical Hebrew, it is a hybrid language, where the grammar is not even fully Semitic and heavily influenced by Yiddish. And the pronunciation is just horrible. That is not how Semitic languages sound, why don't you guys learn pronunciation from Yemeni Jews
You're an idiot if you think that Ashkenazi means "white" and MIzrahi means "non-white." Most Mizrahi Jews look white. Often one cannot tell who is a Mizrahi Jew and who is an Ashkenazi Jew by looking at them. There are many olive-toned Ashkenazim and many light-skinned Mizrahim. Some of my father's Syrian-Jewish cousins are fair-skinned, some of my mother's Hungarian Jewish cousins are olive-skinned.My fiancee's Tunisian-born mother has fair skin and blue eyes. Ignoramus.
Yeah, they used DDT because there was a lot of vermin on the immigrant ships bringing Moroccans, Tunisians, etc. from Marseilles. Ashkenazi immigrants had the same experience. In the 1950s, Israel was a poor country and all immigrants, including Ashkenazim were thrown into squalid camps, and a lot were sprayed with DDT. It was a common pesticide in use throughout the world at that time and people were ignorant of the dangers then.
"Israeli Hebrew is not even close to Biblical Hebrew, "
Hmm, and modern Greek isn't close to the Greek of Homer, and modern English is very distant from the English of Chaucer--your point being? In any case, a modern Israeli reading the Hebrew Scriptures can actually understand it much better than an Englishman today can understand "The Canterbury Tales." There's no such thing as a language that doesn't change over centuries.
"it is a hybrid language, where the grammar is not even fully Semitic and heavily influenced by Yiddish. "
Yiddish itself is a hybrid language, heavily influenced by Hebrew and Aramaic, two Semitic languages which contributed much to Yiddish vocabulary. In addition to the Yiddish influence on my beautiful modern Hebrew, there is also heavy Arabic influence due to the many Jews from Arab lands, as well as the proximity of our Arab "cousins". Of course there are many English words, too.
"And the pronunciation is just horrible. That is not how Semitic languages sound, why don't you guys learn pronunciation from Yemeni Jews"
If you go to a Yemenite synagogue they still use that accent there, and many Israelis (including Ashkenazim) can still make the distinction between 'alef/ayin, kaf/quf, khaf/Het, Tet/taf/thav. Naturally, while living in Europe, Askenazic pronunciations of Hebrew lost some ancient Hebrew phonemes after generations living there. Accents always change.
I can tell that you're not a linguist and don't really know what you're talking about but you're just regurgitating some hastily read Paul Wexler and Gilad Zhukermann you've read on the 'net.
(Zhukerman, although his theories are mostly wrong, is actually a lovely and charming fellow with a true live of the Hebrew language. Wexler is something you'd scrape off the sole of your shoe.)
"why don't you guys learn pronunciation from Yemeni Jews"
Btw, when speaking English, Jews whose families once lived in Yemen almost never refer to themselves as "Yemeni" , but "Yemenite". Don't ask me why, but that is the convention. "Yemeni" seems to be an English adjective reserved for the Arabs of that unfortunate land. Fortunately for the Yemenite Jews, nearly all of that wonderful community have immigrated successfully to Israel.
Yemeni and Yemenite mean exactly the same thing in English, FYI, absolutely no difference whatsoever. And it is not a good thing that Yemeni Jews moved to Israel, because now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry. Ashkenaz are white washed transplants who do not belong in the Middle East. They need to go back to Poland and Russia and eat their bagels there.
"Yemeni and Yemenite mean exactly the same thing in English, FYI, absolutely no difference whatsoever"
In 2011, "Yemenite" is less commonly used, except by and about the Yemenite Jewish community, who rarely use the word "Yemeni" to describe themselves. I can understand them doing so, because it might lead to people confusing them with Yemeni Arabs. who they have nothing to do with, and wishing to stress their connection to their fellow Jews. Of course, in Hebrew, the word is "Teimoni."
Google the word "Yemenite" by itself and you see the results that pop up almost exclusively deal with the Jewish community that has mostly been fortunate to leave that land (save for less than 200). The word "Yemenite" by itself brings you 617,000 results almost all dealing with Jews, the words "Yemeni Jews" brings a mere 16,3000 results...and the lead articles describing them as "Yemeni Jews" tend to come from Arab sources. When using English, it's proper to call them "Yemenite, not "Yemeni."
"it is not a good thing that Yemeni Jews moved to Israel, because now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry."
Yemenite Jews have been united with all Jews in Israel for many years now and have been at the forefront of modern Zionism since the 1880s, when they heard of the Jewish revival taking place in the common homeland of all Jews and migrated on foot to take part in building up the country.
"And it is not a good thing that Yemeni Jews moved to Israel, because now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry"
Oddly enough, much of the tiny remnant of Yemenite Jews who have stayed in Yemen (less than 200) has adopted Ashkenazi customs taught them by Satmar, a Hasidic sect with origins in Hungary.
Due to Satmar's strictly anti-Zionist ideology, they were permitted to teach Judaism in Yemen by the anti-Israel government there, which didn't permit other groups because they were afraid that the remaining Yemenite Jews might get "infected" by Zionism. So, contrary to what you say, Yemenite Jews in Yemen have adopted many Hungarian-Ashkenazic minhagim (customs) because of Satmar's influence. They can't bring in learned Yemenite hakhamim from Israel, where their customs are preserved
"Now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry."
In Israel, Yemenite Jews keep all the important things in their culture like their distinctive Torah-chanting melodies, their food, their music, and yes, in Israel they can enjoy a Western mode of life which includes rule of law, a free press, democracy. Also, there is no legal polygamy in Israel either. Yemenite Jews gave it up over here.
"They need to go back to Poland and Russia and eat their bagels there."
Keep on dreaming.
All Jews of whatever background are staying here in our own country.
We are all one nation.
In a few generations, there won't be much of an Ashkenazi/MizrahHi/Sephardi difference anyway, because we will all be mixed. Some of the distinct communal customs will be preserved in various synagogues, but aside from that, mostly every Israeli will be a blend of all the different Exile communities.
That will be a huge mistake, because it'll dilute the Semitic genes of the Mizrahim, they should not mix with Russians, over half of the Russian immigrants to Israel have nothing to do with Judaism, they make up documents about having one grandparent who was "Jewish", just so they can immigrate to the heavily subsidised state of Israel. Russian women look ugly and like prostitutes, Mizrahim should not mix with these goyim beggars.
"That will be a huge mistake, because it'll dilute the Semitic genes of the Mizrahim, "
Mizrahi Jews don't care about dilution of so-called "Semitic genes". You would know that if you were a Jew. Hitler was worried about the Jews of Germany and Poland contaminating the "pure" so-called "German Aryan" race, with their "Semitic genes," freakish specimens like you are just inverting that.
"they should not mix with Russians, over half of the Russian immigrants to Israel have nothing to do with Judaism, "
If you are talking about aliya since the 1990s, it's partially true that about 1/4 of the immigrants from the former USSR were not halakhically Jewish. However, most of these people still have partial Jewish descent, such as one Jewish grandparent. Very few have no Jewish descent, and those in that category are usually the spouses of Jewish (or partially Jewish) relatives.
"over half of the Russian immigrants to Israel have nothing to do with Judaism, they make up documents about having one grandparent who was "Jewish""
I's extremely isolated cases of people who forge documents, most of who have since left Israel. The complete non-Jews are usually married to people of Jewish descent. Regardless, most Mizrahim are religiously traditional and won't marry someone who is not halakhically Jewish, however, they don't care about "genes". Unlike you, they are not racist.
And how do you know I'm not a Mizrahi? And if you cared about Mizrahim, you wouldn't want them to mix with white Europeans to dilute Semitic genes. The Russian prostitutes of Tel Aviv need to go back to Russia.
No, the racist Ashkenazi Israelis have much more in common with Hitler and Nazis than us. How come there is so much disparity in education and prison population between the Mizrahim and white European Jews in Israel?
There is no "than us", because you are are not of "us." Israelis of all backgrounds constitute one nation, and we have no space for little racist punks of the likes of you.
There is no such thing in any of the grand traditions of the Mizrahi or Sephardic Jews where they teach stuff about "pure Semitic genes". That is the racist pseudoscience of Hitler. Now go play somewhere else.
lama ata lo mesugal laanot oti b'ivrit, afilu be otiyot latiniyyot, im ata yehudi mizrahi ba'al "genim shemiyyim" tehorim? ma kara, google translate adayin lo poel be taatiq ivri be otiyot latiniyyot?
Lekh te'nase le'hishtamesh be google translate im ha tattiq ha zeh! zeh lo ya'avod.
אתה בכלל לא יהודי, ואין לך שום יחוס יהודי. אתה לא ממוצא אשכנזי, ספרדי, מזרחי, תימני,עיראקי, או מורקאי או אתיופי--אתה לא ממוצא יהודי כלשהוא, אלא סתם שונא ישראל. לא נהוג ללמד בקרב בני עדות המזרח לשנוא יהודים אחרים בשל
מוצאם אלא מחנכים את בני הנוער לפי תורת אהבת ישראל וכבוד לזולת
I'm not preaching hate, but I also don't want Jews to pretend and create this false facade of Jewish solidarity, when no such thing exists. Israel is not a Jewish state, because not all Jews in Israel get treated equally. From DAY 1, white European Ashkenazim always got first class treatment, and the Mizrahim and Ethiopian Jews always suffered discrimination, to this day. So don't try to deny it. My family did aliyah in 1969 and lived in Israel for 7 years before leaving.
You're full of it. Your family didn't make aliyah, because you're not a Jew, not Mizrahi, not Sefaradi, not Ashkenazi. You can't even understand what I wrote in Hebrew except by using Google Translate. You are unable to respond to me in Hebrew, and you know if I you used Google Translate to do so it would be obviously revealed. You were unable to read my transliterated Hebrew in Latin characters, as that doesn't yet work with your machine translator. You're an obvious fraud.
And if you really were from a Mizrahi community and voiced the type of anti-Jewish opinions you express here-- full of racist nonsense like "true Semitic genes" and preaching hate for your fellow Ashkenazi Jews and declaring loyalty to so-called "fellow Arabs", they would kick your ass out of such community. There is no Mizrahi community, synagogue or school that preaches your sick, racist ideology. I will not wish you a Happy and Kasher Pesah because you are not a Jew.
"You are the one insulting Jews by assuming that all Jews think the same and have the same ideologies." There is nothing to indicate I assume anything of the sort. In fact, I explicitly said otherwise when I cited the well-known maxim "2 Jews, 3 opinions" regarding the diversity of Zionist opinion right here on this forum. Nevertheless, I stand by my assertion that you are lying when you claim to be a Mizrahi Jew whose family made aliyah. No Mizrahi Jews spew your racist "gene purity" garbage.
By the way, I'm not a "Russkie," but an American-born Israeli Jew whose ancestors hail from Hungary, Litrhuania, Poland and Syria. Like many Israelis, I am a mix of Ashkenazi, Sefaradi and Mizrahi. You would know that so many Israelis are of mixed background if you or anybody in your family ever lived in Israel, and that the inter-communal divides (such as they were) here are mostly a thing of the past.
Oh, I'm very aware of the intermarriages, and I am against it. As you may know since you are Israeli, the Interior Ministry itself says that there are about a million Russians in Israel who have nothing to do with Judaism or Jews, but just did Aliyah because of just one grandparent being Jewish and some of them on fake papers, because life is miserable in Russia. The Mizrahim DO NOT need to marry them to dilute our Semitic genes.
Oh, I'm very aware of the intermarriages, and I am against it. "
Since you are not a Mizrahi Jew (or any sort of Jew) it is really none of your business when Jews marry with each other, which is to be expected, seeing as all Jews are of one nation. Neither Jewish religion nor culture has anything to say about "Semitic genes" (which don't actually exist). You are confused. Go back to your Aryan Nations meetings if you wish to be preoccupied with pseudoscientific notions like "gene dilution".
"there are about a million Russians in Israel... but just did Aliyah because of just one grandparent being Jewish"
Nazis shoved people into ovens because they had only one Jewish grandparent, therefore such people should be entitled to obtain Israeli nationality even if they are not Jewish under religious law (halakha). Likewise, in the ex-USSR, people with Jewish-sounding surnames from of a father or grandfather suffered discrimination as Jews and were classified as such by the Soviets.
Nope. Not even one provable "Nazi Jewish" soldier, just a few confirmed cases of some German soldiers with partial Jewish ancestry serving in the Nazi military .This is not surprising, as Jews had resided in Germany nearly 1,000 years and many started to intermarry with Germans (mostly by converting to Christianity) in the century prior to Hitler. In most cases, they were unaware of the fact that they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent, and if they knew, they hid it.
Well, our country is called Eretz Yisrael, not "Palestine". That's the name the British imposed on our country from 1917-1948. When my provable Jewish grandmother was born in Jerusalem in 1907 whilst it still was under Ottoman Turkish control, the country was not called "Palestine" at that time
It has been called Palestine far longer than it's been called Israel - Israel was always IMPOSED on the region. Palestine is a neutral name - Israel is a tribe. Neutrality is peace - tribe is war. The Ottomans brought people in - they didn't make refugee camps like Zionists did.
Palestine existed as a nation in 1919 - when Zionists drew their map, and the majorty of population ON THIS MAP - was not Jewish. This would be treated the same everywhere - as an act of war.
"The Ottomans brought people in - they didn't make refugee camps like Zionists did."
Actually, during WW1, the Ottomans expelled all the population from Tel Aviv and Jaffa (Muslims, Christians and Jews)--supposedly to defend the city. However, they let the Muslims and Christians return after mere weeks, but didn't permit Jews to return--Jews only came back after the British conquest. (Don't forget how nasty the Ottomans were to Armenians.)
@superhamzah85 re:"they didn't make refugee camps like Zionists did"
Also, don't forget all the Jews expelled from the ancient Jewish Quarter of East Jerusalem by Jordan and from Jewish villages in what became the Jordanian-occupied West Bank. Between 1948-1967--ZERO Jews were permitted to live in the Jordanian-occupied areas of former British "Palestine"...but hundreds of thousands of Arabs stayed in what became Israel. And nearly a million Jews were expelled and made refugees by Arab states.
Ask yourself - why would Arabs purposefully, massively increase the Jewish presence in Palestine, a Jewish majority is what they were preventing, and something Zionists wanted the most.
@superhamzah85 re:"Ask yourself - why would Arabs purposefully, massively increase the Jewish presence in Palestine, a Jewish majority is what they were preventing"
Nevertheless, Jews were expelled en masse from most Arab states between 1948-1969. One reason that Arab states did so was to confiscate Jewish-owned personal and communal property--assets exceeding $300 billion dollars . And yes, all Jews were expelled from the part of the former Palestine Mandate that fell to Jordan in 1948-49.
If your grandmother was born in Palestine - then you are a Palestinian Jew. - there are Palestinian Christians, and Muslims, and others. The PLO already recognizes your rights as a Palestinian Jew, they do not recognize the rights of someone in NEW YORK or Poland, or Russia - coming over to sleep in the bedrooms of Palestinian refugees who are banned from going home.
Sorry, the only people in my family who were born in Palestine were the people who were born in this country between 1917-1948, because "Palestine" was the British-imposed name on our country during that extremely brief mandate period when it was a colony of the UK. What the PLO recognizes or does not recognize is not relevant--my citizenship is Israeli and no sane Jew will ever accept being called "Palestinian".
Only Al-Jazeera could turn a positive story into an, inevitably, anti-Jewish one
Musicofthissphere 5 months ago
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تهجير اليهود من العراق جريمة كبرى ولا احد يدري لمصلحة من كل هذ? فهولاء عاشوا في العراق لاكثر من 2000 عام ومن الاقوام العراقية الاصيلة ولهم تاريخ طويل في المنطقة . فما علاقة اليهود العراقيين بانشاء دولة اسرائيل؟ من قبل الصهيونية العالمية وبريطانيا؟ ان معاملة المواطنين على اساس الدين والقومية لجريمة كبرى. وان مثل هذه الكليبات (افلام) يثير شجوني واتاسف على عقلية حكام العراق الخونة
huseinkerkuk 6 months ago
jewsh , Christian ..or muslim Iraqies only know the real love .meet.and Sincerity
only Iraqies people know why mr: Ezra Levy is looking for his lost love Daisy
Alhurra2010 6 months ago
its funny. anything broadcasted by the british seems to inevitably hold an anti-israel stance, its pathetic. its as if the 1 and only, small jewish state in the world is to be attacked subtly & directly in no relation to its character or acts.
oc00011 9 months ago
@oc00011 This is Al jazeera ?
Rafdaganga 8 months ago
patience patience, you will know very soon
mmmshebli 9 months ago
Il faut comme même l'avouer; les sionistes ont réussi leur projet. Ils ont réussi à séculariser et à nationaliser le Judaisme. Le coeur de sionisme étant le nationalisme laïque et agressive est une importation directe de la tradition puritaine chrétiènne. Ils ont tout simplement suivi l'exemple des jeunes Turcs : Homogénéisation de l'identité, identités fabriquées et guerres archéologiques de l'identité.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
La nation juive toujours existé avant l'avent de la mouvement sioniste moderne.
"Le coeur de sionisme étant le nationalisme laïque et agressive est une importation directe de la tradition puritaine chrétiènne."
La nationalisme judaique existe avant la creation de la christianisme.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel Je ne pense pas que t'es confortable avec le Francais, alors je retourne a l'Anglais. First of all, you didn't understand me and I can't explain myself if you don't know History.I told you we have abused History. Anyway that comment wasn't addressed to you.You called me among other things a bigot. You want to know the truth, it is not up to me to decide if the jews have the right to have a state on Palestine, it is not me who could give Israel legitimacy. It is not up to me.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
I read French, but I don't write or speak it well. I am also well-versed in history. (In English, btw, one need not capitalize proper nouns, unlike German. It's pretentious to do so.) Whether the comment was addressed to me or not, I have the same right to publicly respond to comments made on public fora as anybody else. You are right, it is not up to you to decide if the Jews have a right to a sovereign state of their own, it is up to us as a national collective, and we have so decided.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel Thanks for the correction.
Again you didn't understand my comment. It's funny how people see what they want to see, don't you think?
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
I do understand your comment, and I disagree with it. I contend that Jews have had a collective understanding of themselves as a nation, and not merely members of a religious confession who are nationals of the states in which they reside, since before the emergence of modern political Zionism, and preceding the phenomenon that we call "modern nationalism." Political Zionism is a programmatic expression of the always-latent national sentiment inherent in Judaism.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
The only way an extreme anti-Zionist such as yourself can be redeemed from the label of bigotry against Jews is if you can prove that you believe that absolutely no nation should exist. If such is your belief, then you can be consistent and say that you believe the Jews, just like every other nation, must not have the right to national self-determination without being a bigot. However, you clearly seem to uphold the right of other national groups to retain their national identity.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel However are you aware of what you are doing? You are responding to every comment present on this page that do not hold to your views on Zionism . You defend, preach zionism, you insult the last jew of Babylon. I wonder when were you elected to be the guardian of this page, I surely didn't vote.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
I have as much right to comment on an open, unmoderated forum and respond to or debate assertions that I disagree with as much as anybody else here. Why do you think *YOU* are the guardian of the page? I have also answered in a civil way racist provocations from the likes of the person who refers to himself as "nejiboud" and babbles about "gene purity" and challenged people like xgotfiveonitx's false statement that Yitzhak Rabin condemned Zionism; with no answer.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel Haha you have all the rights, thats not the point. You are behaving like you own this page. You own the part2 too, btw. And no I am not a guardian of any page, i'll be wasting my time.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
If you have read what I wrote on part 2, I was last there two years ago, until yesterday. I am the first to admit that I lack the talent to respond in succinct Twitter-type posts and I don't have the ability to convey what I wish to convey in that format. Unless there are rules about how many comments one may make and the length of such comments, I've done nothing wrong. I have also engaged with and responded in a civil manner, even when provoked with deprecatory language.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"You are behaving like you own this page.V"
Well, unless there are clearly set-out rules about the amount of posts and the lengths of same, and moderation to enforce those rules, I have done nothing wrong. If someone else wants to exceed my posts, I think there is nothing stopping them. You will see that almost all of my posts have initially been in response to what someone else said.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel I am not speaking of any rules. I am not even telling you what to do. I am only observing. However I must say that even if I don't agree with what you are writing you respond in a civil matter which is very rare on Internet.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
I appreciate your saying I am civil and I will go so far as to say that you are too.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel No problem, and merci.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
My intent is not to dominate or control the page. If there were rules limiting the amount or length of posts, I would obey them. (They might not be a bad idea.) As I said, I lack the talent to answer in short "Twitter"-type bursts and convey what I wish to convey and respond to things people write. (Some people have that talent, I do not.) Therefore, when something agitates me, I write at length. Believe it or not, I am forced to edit my posts for brevity when I come up the limit.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
I can definitely understand anti-Zionism as being not being bigoted against Jews when an anti-Zionist belief is an anarchist who consistently condemns *all* forms of nationalism. I, for one, celebrate the existence of diverse cultures with their own unique forms of collective national expression--personally, I would not like to live in a homogeneous world--but I'm sympathetic to the vision of no borders or passports at all. If such a world existed, there would be no need for Israel.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
The first sentence above should read:
"I can definitely understand anti-Zionism as being not being bigoted against Jews *when one with such* anti-Zionist belief is an anarchist who consistently condemns *all* forms of nationalism"
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel You don't even know my views about Politics and you conclude that I am an anarchist, how do you that? I didn't even mentionned Politic and its role. I believe in good governance, in accountability,in transparency, in rights,in Wealth and Power Sharing, does that me an anarchist? Is it because of my username? I have no reason to be a Zionist and let me be clear when I say Zionists I do not mean Jews.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
"You don't even know my views about Politics and you conclude that I am an anarchist, how do you that?"
I never said you were an anarchist. I made a statement that the only way that *anybody* can take a principled stand against Zionism (aka Jewish nationalism) without being an anti-Jewish bigot is if they are against *ALL* nationalisms. You yourself said you are not against all nationalisms. To me, that means you are singling out Jewish nationalism for special reproach.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel I am anti-zionist. I am not an anarchist. For you, these two statements mean that I am against Jews. Let me tell you my approach. I am anti-zioinist and am not an anarchist. I have no problem with nationalism although I never understood that sentiment. I believe in a state that represent its citizens and zionism can not give that. The idea of zionism is fundamentally a conceptualisation of differential rights for Jew and non-Jew.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione
"I believe in a state that represent its citizens and zionism can not give that. "
Israel as a Jewish state can represent its non-Jewish citizens, just as Greece can represent its non-ethnic Greek citizens (Greece has large Roma, Turkish, Albanian, Jewish and Macedonian minorities) and can still be "the Hellenic Republic." How can Finland represent its ethnic Swedish citizens? How does Japan represent its ethnic Korean citizens?
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel Because Finland or Japan are not zionist states. The objective of Israeli government is not a jewish state but a zionist one. It seems that it explains why the Palestinian and western understanding of Israeli thinking is wrong. It is believed that Israel wanted to maintain a Jewish ‘majority’ and that would inevitably bring a palestinian state. However a zionist state is open to any jew around the globe therefore it must conserve land and potential water resources.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
"The idea of zionism is fundamentally a conceptualisation of differential rights for Jew and non-Jew. "
And that one differential right is that as a Jewish state, only Jewish immigrants are entitled to automatic citizenship (although many non-Jewish immigrants often qualify for naturalization as Israeli citizens), just as Greece extends automatic citizenship to people of Greek ancestry, and Ireland to people of Irish ancestry, etc. Otherwise, there are no laws differentiating between citizens.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel Plus Israel’s settlements in the West Bank were about land, and control over water resources. Israel has been able to maintain differential rights for Jews and non-Jews because Israel’s borders are not fixed. When israel is to be formalized as a state, the minority within would agitate for equal rights. The present ambiguous situation permet for Israel to maintain the Status quo.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione I mean *allows* not permet.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
what do american jews have in common with these middle eastern jews? nothing.
xgotfiveonitx 10 months ago
@xgotfiveonitx
Well, first of all, pretty much all Jews are descended from origins in the Middle East-- if you go back far enough, but in addition, you can find many Jews in the United States whose families immigrated to the USA directly from the Middle East. Brooklyn, NY, for instance, has a very large Syrian-Jewish community (I am partially descended from it), as well as many Yemenite Jews, Egyptians, Moroccans and Lebanese . If you go to Queens, you find many Iraqi Jews.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel yes those are arab jews, of which you are one. but going on your argument, its like saying if you go back far enough you can find the brown skin indian who descended of white european aryans. that doesnt make indians europeans does it? middle eastern jews are racially, culturally, ethnically, food, music, even language are arab and something american jews have nothing in common with. arab jews dont eat bagels and dont speak yiddish and have more in common with palestinians.
xgotfiveonitx 10 months ago
"yes those are arab jews, of which you are one. "
Nope. You have no right to call me an "Arab" Jew. Jews were never accepted into the pan-Arabic national movement and the Jews of Arab countries in their masses typically identified with Zionism and not Arab nationalism. Although I am proud of my partial Syrian Jewish heritage and interested in learning Arabic, I will never be an Arab, and neither were the half of my father's Syrian jewish relatievs who spoke Arabic fluently.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"ts like saying if you go back far enough you can find the brown skin indian who descend"
Actually, anthropologically speaking, I believe you have it backwards. Most Europeans' ancestors originally were dark-skinned, even the lightest Swededs(we all come from Africa if you go back far enough).
"that doesnt make indians europeans does it? "
Ashkenazi Jews of Europe were traditionally rejected by the Christian Europeans as alien Middle Easterners, because that is the origin of Ashkenazim
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"even language are arab and something american jews have nothing in common with. arab jews dont eat bagels and dont speak yiddish"
You weren't paying attention. Many American Jews are Mizrahim. I was raised in NY, and Sephardi/Mizrahi Jews are about 15-20% of the population in NY. Go to certain neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and Jews of Syrian heritage dominate. These people are AMERICAN Jews. And guess what? They eat bagels. Everybody in NY eats bagels. Chinese and Arabs eat bagels in NY too.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"middle eastern jews are racially..arab"
When you write "racially" you are straying into dangerous area. There's no such thing really as an Arab "race". Arabs can be different races, because Arab culture and language spread amongst different ethnic groups and races throughout the Middle East and North Africa. That said, if you are going to talk about ancestry, Ashkenazim have a large degree of Middle Eastern ancestry and share much common descent with fellow Jews from Iraq, Syria, Yemen, etc.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel arabs can be muslim, christian and guess what else? jewish too. and arab jews pre-date islam. as for the european jews, they are descendants of converts in an ancient jewish kingdom, whose king converted. nyt themselves report that they hold no middle eastern dna in them. jews are not a race, but a religion and nothing more. these middle eastern jews are arabs, just like middle eastern christians, aside from assyrian christians.
xgotfiveonitx 10 months ago
"arabs can be muslim, christian and guess what else? jewish too. and arab jews pre-date islam. "
Jews of the Middle East certainly were present in the region predating Islam. However, the vast majority of Jews from Arab countries don't identify with Arab peoples or nations, which is what it means to be Arab. Moreover, the pan-Arab national movements such as the Ba'ath party excluded Jews from participation or leadership. The Jewish masses in Arab lands were, however, drawn to Zionism.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"as for the european jews, they are descendants of converts in an ancient jewish kingdom, whose king converted"
You are referring to the Khazars, a medieval (not ancient) Central Asian kingdom whose king (and some of the nobility) converted to Judaism. While it is likely that *some* European Jews (and Middle Eastern Jews as well) have *some* Khazar descent, the fact is that they contributed only a limited way to the European Jewish gene pool.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"nyt themselves report that they hold no middle eastern dna in them."
Wow, the New York Times itself? Here is an article excerpted from the NYT summarizing recent findings:
"Studies Show Jews’ Genetic Similarity - By NICHOLAS WADE
Published: June 9, 2010-Jewish communities in Europe and the Middle East share many genes inherited from the ancestral Jewish population that lived in the Middle East some 3,000 years ago, even though each community also carries genes from other sources"
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
" jews are not a race, but a religion and nothing more. "
The Jews are a people and a nation (and no, they are not a "race", nobody intelligent thinks in terms of "race" ). Judaism, however, is a religion. (It is the historic national religion of the Jewish people, though sometimes people with no Jewish ancestry convert to it and thereby join the Jewish people, usually such people or their descendants marry with people who are of Jewish ancestry and descent.)
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"jews are not a race, but a religion and nothing more."
Nevertheless, although people who convert to and accept the Jewish religion, aka "Judaism" join the Jewish nation by doing so, one can be Jewish solely by ancestry without believing in or observing Jewish religion. I am a Jew by nationality. As an agnostic leaning towards atheism, I don't accept much Jewish religious dogma, yet I am a Jew. One can be an agnostic Jew, but there is no such thing as an agnostic
Muslim or Christian.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"jews are not a race,"
As I said, Jews are a people and a national unit, not a race, just as Arabs are not a "race". In a limited sense, Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula, but over the centuries many other different ethnic and racial groupings have become Arabized. A Khaleeji or Hejazi Arab looks quite different than a fair Syrian or Lebanese Arab, or from a Sudani Arab, or from a descendant of Arabized Berbers from Morocco, yet they all call themselves "Arabs" today.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Although most of the descendants of the Amazegh, the Assyrians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians have all had Arabic language and culture imposed on them and today regard themselves as Arabs, for the most part, the one group that has lived in the Middle East for generations without giving up its unique national identity have been the Jews. Jews in Iraq, Syria and Morocco feel closer to their fellow Jews from Poland, Germany, and Hungary than they do with Muslim Arabs. It's a fact.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Just proofreading what I posted above--I should have put the word "feel" in past tense, so it should read
"Jews in Iraq, Syria and Morocco FELT closer to their fellow Jews from Poland, Germany, and Hungary than they do with Muslim Arabs."
It needs to be in the past tense, because those communities have largely disappeared, their members were mostly expelled and dispersed.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
these jewish people did not want at all at first to goto isreal but had to flee to stay alive. Otherwise they risk death as evidence from this video. You can kill someone with a bullet or simply neglect them. A very powerful video. Save our brothers and sisters from certain death.
strokex1 1 year ago
As Israel I have not only to pay a lot of taxes in order to pay the needs of this new comer old Jew to Israel ( who has never contributed anything to this state) but also to hear how he serves the agenda of the enemies of mycountry.
Everybody in Israel is free to leave this country.I am not sure where he could find a better shelter.
elyubl 1 year ago
@elyubl You fail to see the tragedy of the story. It's not about a man's dream or "agenda". It is about how could many jews reject their heritages, their origins to the point to break all ties with their arabs brothers whom they have centuries of history with? It's realising that what zionism succeeded in doing is to separate even more the people. Anyting or anyone who separate people no matter who they are is dangerous for everybody. But you only seem to worry about your taxes.
TheRivoluzione 1 year ago
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"It is about how could many jews reject their heritages, their origins to the point to break all ties with their arabs brothers whom they have centuries of history with? "
You mean centuries of history of being a discriminated second-class ethnic and religious minority? Centuries of history of sporadic riots ,massacres and rapes in the Harat al Yahud?
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"It's realising that what zionism succeeded in doing is to separate even more the people. " Zionism unites people, Jews descended from the Middle Eastern diaspora now are united with Jews descended from the European diaspora and living in the common ancestral homeland, Israel. My own flesh and blood is alive because of Zionism. My sister is descended from Syrian/Russian/Hungarian Jews, she has children with her Yemenite Jewish husband. My fiancee is 1/2 Tunisian,1/2 Yemenite Jewish.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel I find it beatifull all the heritage that are part of your identity.But I stand by my point that Zionism is destructive,exclusive and tribally oriented.I know the history of Zionism and there is nothing united about it.I know how can Israelis say that Zionism saved them and is the only ideology than can protect them but it is an ideology that deprive one's from his humanity. I believe when we harm people we end up hurting ourselves even more.The past always come back to hunt us.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
@TheRivoluzione well said. its outdated and focuses too much on 19th century european jewry. even yitzak rabin himself said 'its time to accept a post-zionist era'. that means a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious country, not one that belongs to only one group alone.
xgotfiveonitx 10 months ago
"its outdated and focuses too much on 19th century european jewry."
Modern political Zionism as a movement was started by Jews in Europe in the 19th century in reaction to European anti-Semitism and inspired by 19th century nationalist movements,but the Zionist impulse is part and parcel of Judaism going back to the very beginning. Moreover, the Zionist message of Jewish renewal and return homeland resonated stongly with Mizrahi/Sephardic Jews of the Middle East/North Africa in the 20th century.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
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"even yitzak rabin himself said 'its time to accept a post-zionist era'."
Rabin never said any such thing. I challenge you to show me a reliable source to that alleged quote. Rabin was a strong Zionist who realized the necessity of creating a Palestinian Arab state to ensure the survival of Israel as a Jewish state.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"that means a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious country, not one that belongs to only one group alone."
Israel is already all those things, and it is also a Jewish state. There is no contradiction in it being a Jewish state that offers equal civic and democratic rights to the non-Jewish minority, which is about 20% of the population. Israeli Muslims, Christians and Druze have served as cabinet ministers, Supreme Court justices, army generals, and ambassadors.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"But I stand by my point that Zionism is destructive,exclusive and tribally oriented."
Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people and Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people. When every other nation-state existing today gives up its unique national identity, when states like Japan, Finland, Albania, Korea, say they don't represent their respective nationalities (this goes for ALL the Arab states as well), then Israel should too. But we won't be the first!
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"I know the history of Zionism and there is nothing united about it.I"
Well, Jews have always had diversities of opinion (we always say 2 Jews = 3 opinions, but some people argue that it's 3 Jews, 4 opinions!)-- and Zionism is a very Jewish movement, nourished primarily from Judaism. There have always been different ideological currents and approaches within Zionism, because it's not a totalitarian movement. There's no Zionist equivalent of Qaddafi's "Green Book".
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel I can always write down what the founders of Zionism said about Jews and how everthing they did followed the famous aphorism :the end justify the means, but I believe I will bore you. I think you already know. Let me just say that there is nothing more anti-Semitic than Zionism.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
"I can always write down what the founders of Zionism said about Jews and how everything they did followed the famous aphorism :the end justify the means, "
First of all, you are talking about modern political Zionism, i.e., the programmatic movement to reestablish Jewish sovereignty in their own nation-state, because the Zionist ideas that Jews collectively constitute a nation and are deserving of sovereignty in their own land goes to the very roots of Jewishness. (CT'D)
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel You don't see the devastating consequences of that aphorism. Many of us still don't know and none of us know what will be the ultimate price for it.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
"You don't see the devastating consequences of that aphorism. "
The worst thing that can be said of Zionism is it is responsible for creating Palestinian Arab nationalism. "Palestinians" as a nation had no collective national identity until the confrontation with Jewish nationalism, i.e., Zionism.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Regardless, the "founders" of Zionism were a diverse ideological bunch, whose approaches to what Zionism's goals should be varied widely. Certainly, they did not begin and end with Herzxl or Max Nordau, but they included Ahad Ha'am (who only wanted the Jews to have a "spiritual center") and Zionist supporters of binationalism such as Judah Magnes or Arthur Ruppin who wanted Israel to be a Jewish/Arab state. The latter may have been delusional, but they were certainly Zionist.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
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"Let me just say that there is nothing more anti-Semitic than Zionism."
I can't prevent you from saying anything silly.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"it is an ideology that deprive one's from his humanity."
It is an ideology that says Jews, just like every other people in the world, have a right to political self-determination. Shockingly inhumane, no?
If you are saying that Jews should be denied this right, then either (A) you are an anarchist who believes that no such thing as a nation-state should exist and that countries like Japan, Finland ,Thailand, Greece or a Palestinian Arab state should not exist or (B), a bigot.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel I'm neither but you can always try. Zionism is a secular mouvement but funny enough it transforms the Bible from a religious text into a land registry. It is a colonial racist philosophy that believes that Jews are entitled to a national home in Zion (Palestine) at the expense of the Palestinian people. Judaism is a religion practiced by the Jewish people which in contrary to Zionism has at its core a set of moral values and ethical principles. Zionism makes a mockery of it.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
Well, apparently you do then support the national aspirations of the Palestinian Arab people to have a state while denying that the Jews have that same right. That would, in fact, make you a bigot. Since I am not a hypocrite I recognize that the Palestinian Arabs do have a legitimate right to national self-determination (even though historically speaking, the concept of a "Palestinian" nation is a very recent phenomenon, but they do not have the right to have a state at my expense.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel You just used my words but turn the argument on your side.Zionists have clearly a political agenda and the past is an important instrument in this game. By controling the past, you can control the futur. I understood that History is too a concept that has been abused by man. I don't merely mean telling lies or the art of propaganda but about History being removed from its position. History is supposed to be a dynamic concept and is a reminder of who we really are, not a fantasy.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
"History is supposed to be a dynamic concept"
Is this how you justify the creation of a history of a people that was never heard of 5 decades ago, the "Palestinians"? Again, I happen to support their right to national self-determination on a territory of their own, but the existence of a culturally distinct national unit that is "Palestinian" is a recent phenomenon and simply doesn't exist in history, unless you believe that the past is dynamic and fluid.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"Zionism is a secular movement but funny enough it transforms the Bible from a religious text into a land registry...Judaism is ...contrary to Zionism "
For secular Jews, Zionism can be secular, for religious Jews it is a religious movement. Modern political Zionism is secular in the sense that it set out to achieve its goals through secular means, and non-reliance on miraculous divine intervention. Nevertheless, Zionism inheres in Judaism, which is a national religion.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel I have a two sided jacket. One side for very rainy days, you know and the other side for nice and shiny days....I see you see Zionism as a flexible philosophy if such concept exist, as a wide ideology that include me and someone that would disagree with my definition of the essence of man. This is called Doublethink. To believe in two contradictory beliefs at the same time and accept both of them. I don't know how you succeed in doing if it is not by lying to yourself.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
"I see you see Zionism as a flexible philosophy if such concept exist, as a wide ideology"
I don't see Zionism as a "philosophy" at all, but a practical movement to achieve an absolute good, the reestablishment of sovereignty for the Jews in their homeland. There have been many ideological approaches within Zionism, and one thing in common to all is that Jews constitute a nation, something that is self-evident to me.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"Judaism is a religion practiced by the Jewish people which in contrary to Zionism has at its core a set of moral values and ethical principles."
If you knew anything about the Jewish religion, you would know that the thrice-daily prayers of that religion constantly plea for the ingathering and return of the Jewish People to its ancestral home in Zion and the reestablishment of Israel. These same prayers were fervently said by religious Jews in Baghdad and Warsaw alike for centuries.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel Yes and the true Torah Jews completely disagree with the existence of the state of Israel. The state comes with a condition and you know it. You are speaking of an interpretation of the religion such as Zionism is doing with its biblically orientated precept.
TheRivoluzione 10 months ago
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"Yes and the true Torah Jews completely disagree with the existence of the state of Israel." Tell me, what gives you the right as as a non-Jew to decide what a "true Torah Jew" is? One minority vehemently anti-Zionist fringe group, Neturei Karta, arrogantly states they are the only so-called "True Torah Judaism". Meanwhile, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews today are Zionist or sympathetic to it, and also call themselves Torah Jews. Why do you think you know who the "real" Torah Jews are?
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"You are speaking of an interpretation of the religion such as Zionism is doing with its biblically orientated precept." First of all, I am a secular agnostic person, and I dislike those religious Zionists who insist that Israel must retain all of the disputed post-1967 territories and think they are hastening the Messiah and ushering in a Jewish kingdom by doing so as dangerous fanatics. I disagree with their vision of what a Jewish state means, but I won't deny they are Zionists.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"true Torah Jews completely disagree with the existence of the state of Israel. "
It astounds me that you know what "True Torah Jews" are. Orthodox religious Zionists in Gush Emunim, also think of themselves as "True Torah Jews" and are as scrupulous in their observance of the commandments as the Neturei Karta are. What makes you, a non-Jew, pick Neturei Karta as more authentic?
It's as arrogant as me declaring which is "true Islam", bin Laden's ultra Salafism or a mystic peaceful Sufi sect.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"You fail to see the tragedy of the story...It is about how could many jews reject their heritages,"
The tragedy of the story is that Mr Levy is an old fool who decades ago could've accompanied his family to Israel and contribute to Israeli society, but chose to remain behind in an Arab dictatorship largely because of a family feud and a spurned love. As an old man, he was spirited out of a chaotic, post-Saddam Iraq, and he is supported by my and elyubi's taxes, but prefers to shit all over us.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Before the influx of Jews from Europe and the US, locals of the Middle East were living in harmony. Rabbinical Judaism and Zionism are anti-Gentile.
This Jew embraced all religions like Khalil Gibran who wrote: I love you at prayer in your mosque, at your worship in your synagogue, at your devotions in your church; for you and I are the sons of one religion -- the spirit. ```
lughcious 1 year ago
"Before the influx of Jews from Europe and the US, locals of the Middle East were living in harmony."
That's like saying that before the Civil Rights Movement, the blacks in the South lived in harmony with the whites, as long as they didn't get any "uppity" ideas in their heads.
"Rabbinical Judaism and Zionism are anti-Gentile." Jews of the Middle East, save for the tiny Karaite community, have practiced Rabbinical Judaism for the past 2,000 years. Middle eastern Jews are also proud Zionists
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel blacks never demanded a seperate state. if anything its isreali zionism which denies civil rights to non-jews. you as an american should not have a right to isreali citizenship simply based on your religion, the people who live there do.
xgotfiveonitx 10 months ago
"blacks never demanded a seperate state."
Actually, some have. Nevertheless, American nationalism is based on shared civic ideal, not nationality. That's all well and good, but most other states are nationality-based. Blacks in the US deserved equal protection based in the US Constitution, not a separate black state. Jews in the Middle East, like their fellow Jews in Europe, were marginalized and discriminated against in those societies and have a right to self-determination in their homeland.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"you as an american should not have a right to isreali citizenship simply based on your religion, the people who live there do. "
I, as a Jew (not "as an American"), have a right to Israeli citizenship like any other Jew. That's a matter between me, a Jew, and my government, that of the State of Israel, and no concern of yours, really. Likewise, Ireland extends citizenship to people of Irish descent even if they're born in the USA, Australia or Argentina; that's no concern of mine.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel you live in america, not isreal. america is your govt. not isreals. irish are an ethnicity, jews are not. just a religion and nothing more. like i said the people who live there have right to citizenship, not foreigners who have never even set foot on its soil. the brits should quit northern ireland for the same reason, there is nothing secular about isreal or n.ireland. if you support secularism you wouldnt support a state solely based on religion. obviously you are a fanatic.
xgotfiveonitx 10 months ago
"you live in america, not isreal. "
Actually, I live in Israel, what makes you think I live in the US?
"america is your govt. not isreals. "
I am an Israeli citizen, I hold an Israeli ID and passport, I pay Israeli taxes, I serve in the Israeli Army reserves and I vote in Israeli elections. Ergo, Israel is my government. I also hold US citizenship because I happened to have been born in that country, but I regard myself as an Israeli first.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"like i said the people who live there have right to citizenship, not foreigners who have never even set foot on its soil."
You are confused. Jews living abroad cannot gain Israeli citizenship without moving to Israel first, although children of Israeli citizens (of whatever religion) are Israeli citizens at birth even when born abroad. I actually fall into the second category, my father had Israeli citizenship before I was born, therefore I and my siblings were Israeli citizens at birth.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"the brits should quit northern ireland for the same reason, there is nothing secular about isreal or n.ireland. "
A majority of the population of Northern Ireland wish to remain British citizens, I think that's good enough reason for the British to hold on to Northern Ireland, although it's of no relevance to me as an Israeli Jew living in Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, nor to to you as a Muslim American in Chicago .
Unlike you, I don't presume to dictate foreign policy to other countries.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"jews are not. just a religion and nothing more"
It's really not for you to say that Jews are "just" a religion. The fact is that although there is such a thing as converting to Judaism (the religion), most Jews share common descent to the same piece of territory, and we have historical, linguistic, and cultural characteristics in common besides religion, the attributes that define nationality. Not only do Jews view themselves as members of the same nation, they have been so viewed by others.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"if you support secularism you wouldnt support a state solely based on religion. obviously you are a fanatic."
Obviously, I am secular. I was typing away at my computer on the Jewish Sabbath, and it is forbidden for religious Jews to use electricity on Shabbat. Israel has never been a "state solely based on religion", its founding generation of politicians were largely secular people. One can be a Jew whether or not one follows Judaism, and Israel is a country for all Jews.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Love <3
UsweetLeilani 1 year ago
It's sad but it seems that we are determined to make life difficult for others whatever the price. Why can't we see what is in front of us instead of living in a World of illusions?
TheRivoluzione 1 year ago
It's sad but it seems that we are determined to make life difficult for others whatever the price. Why can't we see what is in front of us instead of living in a World of illusions?
TheRivoluzione 1 year ago
The Arab and Jews lived once as brothers, many of Arab risk and hide Jews from prescution of NS. This man could save his live, but who care about fomillions dead Iraqies, maybe just Wolfowitz and Perl and so on.
nuxable 1 year ago
i hope ur happy isra...where ever u r..
TheQ8FlowerQ8 1 year ago
Thanks for sharing this Clip very well done coverage.. Walla i am muslim and I feel depely sorry to what has happened to this country and the jews. Walla these pple were one of the most loyal people to Iraq.. Until this day this community in Israel still remember Iraq.. How unfortunt iraq is by losing these people that have such a deap history in Iraq.. Very sad
Iraqishereef 1 year ago
Watching this at 4 in the morning, and I can't stop crying, what a tragedy! Mizrahim/Arab Jews had to discard their traditions and authentic Middle Eastern Jewishness and were forced to accept the white European Ashkenazi ways in Israel. They faced so much discrimination in Israel to this day.
Nejiboud 1 year ago 6
"Mizrahim/Arab Jews had to discard their traditions and authentic Middle Eastern Jewishnes"
Absolutely false.Mizrahi Jewish culture flourish es in Israel like nowhere else. The places where Mizrahi Jewish culture is dead are in the Arab countries.
"and were forced to accept the white European Ashkenazi ways"
It would come as a surprise to my Syrian-Jewish relations in Brooklyn and Israel, that they are not white! LOL
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Sure they are white, no wonder there was so much racism from white European Jews against Arab Jews/Mizrahim that they had to form their own Black Panther Movement for protection. Keep the myths alive, but I know the truth.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
"Sure they are white, no wonder there was so much racism from white European Jews" Keep the myths alive, but I know the truth."
You know nothing. FYI, Arabs can be black, brown and WHITE; likewise Jews from Arab lands. Half of my father's family are Syrian Jews, many of them are red-haired, blue eyed and light-skinned, but I have
DARK-skinned ASHKENAZIi relatives too. Sure there was discrimination against Mizrahi immigrants in the early years of Israel. But it's nothing to do with color.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
But meanwhile, here in Israel Mizrahi Jewish culture thrives and flourishes., in music, food, language, religion. I am myself part-Mizrahi.
But the places where Mizrahi Jewish culture is basically completely extinct are the Arab lands--with just a few shrinking remnants in Tunis, Morocco and Iran.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"Arab Jews/Mizrahim that they had to form their own Black Panther Movement for protection"
The Israeli Black Panther movement was a movement on the fringe of the fringe, it was just copying ideas from the American Black Panther movement and radical left styles and lingo. That is not to say that there were serious issues that negatively affected people of Mizrahi background in the 1960s/1970s, but the truth is the "Panterim Sheorim" were a bunch of misfits.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
No, the racist AshkeNazis were and are the misfits. If they hate the Middle East and Middle Eastern culture and people so much, they can go right back to Poland and Russia and Germany where they belong with their bagels.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
"the racist AshkeNazis were and are the misfits" You're another ignoramus misfit spewing racial hatred. The Panterim SheHorim were indeed a fringe group who only had miniscule support amongst Mizrahi/Sefaradee Jews in Israel. In reality, they had more support from left-wing university-educated Ashkenazim who thought they were supporting a "radical" cause (similar to the way some extreme-left whites and some cultural elites Jews backed the American Black Panthers in the 1960s-70s) . (CT'D.)
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
The truth is, though that Mizrahi/Sefaradi Jews in Israel overall tend to vote for and support right-wing Zionist political parties and causes. Charlie Bitton's so-called "Black Panther" party in Israel was an abberation, as a left-wing group claiming a Mizrahi constituency. Far more Mizrahi Jews voted for Meir Kahane's anti-Arab Kach party in the 1980s than they did for the "Panthers". And today, go to any Mizrahi-dominated neighborhood in Israel and you see that they are Likud strongholds.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"If they hate the Middle East and Middle Eastern culture and people so much,"
Ashkenazi Jews are literally of the Middle East, most of their ancestry stems from Middle Eastern origins (confirmed by DNA testing), Ashkenazi Jews, like all Jews, share in the Hebraic cultural linguistic heritage (FYI Hebrew, the language of all Jews, belongs to Ashkenazim, Mizrahim, Sefaradeem, and is a Middle Eastern language) and Ashkenazi Jews have led the linguistic revival of that language.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"they can go right back to Poland and Russia and Germany where they belong with their bagels."
No, Jews of all backgrounds will stay in an Israeli Jewish state, where Ashkenazi Jews mix, mingle and marry with their brothers and sisters, the Mizrahi and Sefaradi Jews in a common Jewish Hebrew-speaking homeland, where Israelis of all backgrounds enjoy bagels, pita, hummous, jachnoun, gefilte fish, malawech, sabiH, tzimmes, and rugelach alike. All Israelis of all backgrounds eat all kinds of food.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Yeah, I'm sure the ugly Russki "Jews" were sitting around in Siberia with Putin eating Hummus and Falafel all these hundreds of years lol
Nejiboud 10 months ago
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"Yeah, I'm sure the ugly Russki "Jews" were sitting around in Siberia with Putin eating Hummus and Falafel all these hundreds of years lol"
Mr Racist Ignoramus, the Jews of Russia don't originate from Siberia, and Jews from Russia are ethnically distinct from Russians. Few Jews lived under Russian rule until Poland was annexed by Russia, and the ancestors of most Jews in Poland arrived there from German-speaking lands in the Middle Ages; they migrated to those areas from the Middle East.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Regardless, all kinds of Jews live in Israel. Half of the Israeli Jewish population is of Mizrahi/Sephardic origin; and Mizrahi people in Israel enjoy food of the Ashkenazi diaspora like bagels (even though you could barely get a decent bagel in Israel as recently as the 1990s), rogelach, gefilte fish, cholent and tzimmes; likewise, Ashkenazi Jews eat falafel, humus, jachnun and shakshuka. Also Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Israelis all marry each other.
Oh, we like to eat sushi too!
:-)
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Why would real Semitic Middle Eastern Jews want to marry Ashkenazi Jews, half of the Ashkenazi women look like prostitutes.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
All Jews are of the same nation, whether Ashkenazi, Sephardi or Mizrahi. We share a common descent and it is normal that we all marry and mix with each other in Israel, where we speak the Hebrew language that is our common heritage and live on our ancestral soul.
Deal with it.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Common descent...sure! No wonder white Jews were so delighted to meet Middle Eastern Jews that they sprayed them with DDT and decades of Nazi style racist policies towards the Mizrahim. Israeli Hebrew is not even close to Biblical Hebrew, it is a hybrid language, where the grammar is not even fully Semitic and heavily influenced by Yiddish. And the pronunciation is just horrible. That is not how Semitic languages sound, why don't you guys learn pronunciation from Yemeni Jews
Nejiboud 10 months ago
"No wonder white Jews"
You're an idiot if you think that Ashkenazi means "white" and MIzrahi means "non-white." Most Mizrahi Jews look white. Often one cannot tell who is a Mizrahi Jew and who is an Ashkenazi Jew by looking at them. There are many olive-toned Ashkenazim and many light-skinned Mizrahim. Some of my father's Syrian-Jewish cousins are fair-skinned, some of my mother's Hungarian Jewish cousins are olive-skinned.My fiancee's Tunisian-born mother has fair skin and blue eyes. Ignoramus.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"they sprayed them with DDT "
Yeah, they used DDT because there was a lot of vermin on the immigrant ships bringing Moroccans, Tunisians, etc. from Marseilles. Ashkenazi immigrants had the same experience. In the 1950s, Israel was a poor country and all immigrants, including Ashkenazim were thrown into squalid camps, and a lot were sprayed with DDT. It was a common pesticide in use throughout the world at that time and people were ignorant of the dangers then.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"Israeli Hebrew is not even close to Biblical Hebrew, "
Hmm, and modern Greek isn't close to the Greek of Homer, and modern English is very distant from the English of Chaucer--your point being? In any case, a modern Israeli reading the Hebrew Scriptures can actually understand it much better than an Englishman today can understand "The Canterbury Tales." There's no such thing as a language that doesn't change over centuries.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"it is a hybrid language, where the grammar is not even fully Semitic and heavily influenced by Yiddish. "
Yiddish itself is a hybrid language, heavily influenced by Hebrew and Aramaic, two Semitic languages which contributed much to Yiddish vocabulary. In addition to the Yiddish influence on my beautiful modern Hebrew, there is also heavy Arabic influence due to the many Jews from Arab lands, as well as the proximity of our Arab "cousins". Of course there are many English words, too.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"And the pronunciation is just horrible. That is not how Semitic languages sound, why don't you guys learn pronunciation from Yemeni Jews"
If you go to a Yemenite synagogue they still use that accent there, and many Israelis (including Ashkenazim) can still make the distinction between 'alef/ayin, kaf/quf, khaf/Het, Tet/taf/thav. Naturally, while living in Europe, Askenazic pronunciations of Hebrew lost some ancient Hebrew phonemes after generations living there. Accents always change.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
I can tell that you're not a linguist and don't really know what you're talking about but you're just regurgitating some hastily read Paul Wexler and Gilad Zhukermann you've read on the 'net.
(Zhukerman, although his theories are mostly wrong, is actually a lovely and charming fellow with a true live of the Hebrew language. Wexler is something you'd scrape off the sole of your shoe.)
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"why don't you guys learn pronunciation from Yemeni Jews"
Btw, when speaking English, Jews whose families once lived in Yemen almost never refer to themselves as "Yemeni" , but "Yemenite". Don't ask me why, but that is the convention. "Yemeni" seems to be an English adjective reserved for the Arabs of that unfortunate land. Fortunately for the Yemenite Jews, nearly all of that wonderful community have immigrated successfully to Israel.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Yemeni and Yemenite mean exactly the same thing in English, FYI, absolutely no difference whatsoever. And it is not a good thing that Yemeni Jews moved to Israel, because now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry. Ashkenaz are white washed transplants who do not belong in the Middle East. They need to go back to Poland and Russia and eat their bagels there.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
"Yemeni and Yemenite mean exactly the same thing in English, FYI, absolutely no difference whatsoever"
In 2011, "Yemenite" is less commonly used, except by and about the Yemenite Jewish community, who rarely use the word "Yemeni" to describe themselves. I can understand them doing so, because it might lead to people confusing them with Yemeni Arabs. who they have nothing to do with, and wishing to stress their connection to their fellow Jews. Of course, in Hebrew, the word is "Teimoni."
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Google the word "Yemenite" by itself and you see the results that pop up almost exclusively deal with the Jewish community that has mostly been fortunate to leave that land (save for less than 200). The word "Yemenite" by itself brings you 617,000 results almost all dealing with Jews, the words "Yemeni Jews" brings a mere 16,3000 results...and the lead articles describing them as "Yemeni Jews" tend to come from Arab sources. When using English, it's proper to call them "Yemenite, not "Yemeni."
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"it is not a good thing that Yemeni Jews moved to Israel, because now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry."
Yemenite Jews have been united with all Jews in Israel for many years now and have been at the forefront of modern Zionism since the 1880s, when they heard of the Jewish revival taking place in the common homeland of all Jews and migrated on foot to take part in building up the country.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"And it is not a good thing that Yemeni Jews moved to Israel, because now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry"
Oddly enough, much of the tiny remnant of Yemenite Jews who have stayed in Yemen (less than 200) has adopted Ashkenazi customs taught them by Satmar, a Hasidic sect with origins in Hungary.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Due to Satmar's strictly anti-Zionist ideology, they were permitted to teach Judaism in Yemen by the anti-Israel government there, which didn't permit other groups because they were afraid that the remaining Yemenite Jews might get "infected" by Zionism. So, contrary to what you say, Yemenite Jews in Yemen have adopted many Hungarian-Ashkenazic minhagim (customs) because of Satmar's influence. They can't bring in learned Yemenite hakhamim from Israel, where their customs are preserved
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"Now they'll have to adopt to strange foreign European mode of Israeli life, which will take them away from the authentic Middle Eastern Jewry."
In Israel, Yemenite Jews keep all the important things in their culture like their distinctive Torah-chanting melodies, their food, their music, and yes, in Israel they can enjoy a Western mode of life which includes rule of law, a free press, democracy. Also, there is no legal polygamy in Israel either. Yemenite Jews gave it up over here.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"They need to go back to Poland and Russia and eat their bagels there."
Keep on dreaming.
All Jews of whatever background are staying here in our own country.
We are all one nation.
In a few generations, there won't be much of an Ashkenazi/MizrahHi/Sephardi difference anyway, because we will all be mixed. Some of the distinct communal customs will be preserved in various synagogues, but aside from that, mostly every Israeli will be a blend of all the different Exile communities.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
That will be a huge mistake, because it'll dilute the Semitic genes of the Mizrahim, they should not mix with Russians, over half of the Russian immigrants to Israel have nothing to do with Judaism, they make up documents about having one grandparent who was "Jewish", just so they can immigrate to the heavily subsidised state of Israel. Russian women look ugly and like prostitutes, Mizrahim should not mix with these goyim beggars.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
"That will be a huge mistake, because it'll dilute the Semitic genes of the Mizrahim, "
Mizrahi Jews don't care about dilution of so-called "Semitic genes". You would know that if you were a Jew. Hitler was worried about the Jews of Germany and Poland contaminating the "pure" so-called "German Aryan" race, with their "Semitic genes," freakish specimens like you are just inverting that.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"they should not mix with Russians, over half of the Russian immigrants to Israel have nothing to do with Judaism, "
If you are talking about aliya since the 1990s, it's partially true that about 1/4 of the immigrants from the former USSR were not halakhically Jewish. However, most of these people still have partial Jewish descent, such as one Jewish grandparent. Very few have no Jewish descent, and those in that category are usually the spouses of Jewish (or partially Jewish) relatives.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"over half of the Russian immigrants to Israel have nothing to do with Judaism, they make up documents about having one grandparent who was "Jewish""
I's extremely isolated cases of people who forge documents, most of who have since left Israel. The complete non-Jews are usually married to people of Jewish descent. Regardless, most Mizrahim are religiously traditional and won't marry someone who is not halakhically Jewish, however, they don't care about "genes". Unlike you, they are not racist.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
"Mizrahim should not mix"
Since you are not a Jew, Mizrahi or otherwise, it's really not your place to tell us Jews who we should mix with.
Worry about your own people and stop pretending that you are concerned with the fate of my people.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
And how do you know I'm not a Mizrahi? And if you cared about Mizrahim, you wouldn't want them to mix with white Europeans to dilute Semitic genes. The Russian prostitutes of Tel Aviv need to go back to Russia.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
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ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@Nejiboud
לא קיים מושג ש "דילול גנים" ביהדות, ובוודאי שלא בקרב בני עדות המזרח. אנחנו לא היטלרים קטנים כמוך
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
No, the racist Ashkenazi Israelis have much more in common with Hitler and Nazis than us. How come there is so much disparity in education and prison population between the Mizrahim and white European Jews in Israel?
Nejiboud 10 months ago
There is no "than us", because you are are not of "us." Israelis of all backgrounds constitute one nation, and we have no space for little racist punks of the likes of you.
There is no such thing in any of the grand traditions of the Mizrahi or Sephardic Jews where they teach stuff about "pure Semitic genes". That is the racist pseudoscience of Hitler. Now go play somewhere else.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
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@Nejiboud
lama ata lo mesugal laanot oti b'ivrit, afilu be otiyot latiniyyot, im ata yehudi mizrahi ba'al "genim shemiyyim" tehorim? ma kara, google translate adayin lo poel be taatiq ivri be otiyot latiniyyot?
Lekh te'nase le'hishtamesh be google translate im ha tattiq ha zeh! zeh lo ya'avod.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
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@Nejiboud
אתה בכלל לא יהודי, ואין לך שום יחוס יהודי. אתה לא ממוצא אשכנזי, ספרדי, מזרחי, תימני,עיראקי, או מורקאי או אתיופי--אתה לא ממוצא יהודי כלשהוא, אלא סתם שונא ישראל. לא נהוג ללמד בקרב בני עדות המזרח לשנוא יהודים אחרים בשל
מוצאם אלא מחנכים את בני הנוער לפי תורת אהבת ישראל וכבוד לזולת
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
Comment removed
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@Nejiboud
זה ברור לכל אחד ואחד שקורא את הקשקושים שלך שאין לך שום זיקה
למורשת הנאורה של היהדות של עדות המזרח. פשוט לא מטיפים לשנוא יהודים אחרים בקרבנו.
ShmorgelBorgel 10 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
I'm not preaching hate, but I also don't want Jews to pretend and create this false facade of Jewish solidarity, when no such thing exists. Israel is not a Jewish state, because not all Jews in Israel get treated equally. From DAY 1, white European Ashkenazim always got first class treatment, and the Mizrahim and Ethiopian Jews always suffered discrimination, to this day. So don't try to deny it. My family did aliyah in 1969 and lived in Israel for 7 years before leaving.
Nejiboud 10 months ago
@Nejiboud
You're full of it. Your family didn't make aliyah, because you're not a Jew, not Mizrahi, not Sefaradi, not Ashkenazi. You can't even understand what I wrote in Hebrew except by using Google Translate. You are unable to respond to me in Hebrew, and you know if I you used Google Translate to do so it would be obviously revealed. You were unable to read my transliterated Hebrew in Latin characters, as that doesn't yet work with your machine translator. You're an obvious fraud.
ShmorgelBorgel 9 months ago
@Nejiboud
And if you really were from a Mizrahi community and voiced the type of anti-Jewish opinions you express here-- full of racist nonsense like "true Semitic genes" and preaching hate for your fellow Ashkenazi Jews and declaring loyalty to so-called "fellow Arabs", they would kick your ass out of such community. There is no Mizrahi community, synagogue or school that preaches your sick, racist ideology. I will not wish you a Happy and Kasher Pesah because you are not a Jew.
ShmorgelBorgel 9 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
You are the one insulting Jews by assuming that all Jews think the same and have the same ideologies. Go back to Putin you silly Russkie~!
Nejiboud 9 months ago
"You are the one insulting Jews by assuming that all Jews think the same and have the same ideologies." There is nothing to indicate I assume anything of the sort. In fact, I explicitly said otherwise when I cited the well-known maxim "2 Jews, 3 opinions" regarding the diversity of Zionist opinion right here on this forum. Nevertheless, I stand by my assertion that you are lying when you claim to be a Mizrahi Jew whose family made aliyah. No Mizrahi Jews spew your racist "gene purity" garbage.
ShmorgelBorgel 9 months ago
By the way, I'm not a "Russkie," but an American-born Israeli Jew whose ancestors hail from Hungary, Litrhuania, Poland and Syria. Like many Israelis, I am a mix of Ashkenazi, Sefaradi and Mizrahi. You would know that so many Israelis are of mixed background if you or anybody in your family ever lived in Israel, and that the inter-communal divides (such as they were) here are mostly a thing of the past.
ShmorgelBorgel 9 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Oh, I'm very aware of the intermarriages, and I am against it. As you may know since you are Israeli, the Interior Ministry itself says that there are about a million Russians in Israel who have nothing to do with Judaism or Jews, but just did Aliyah because of just one grandparent being Jewish and some of them on fake papers, because life is miserable in Russia. The Mizrahim DO NOT need to marry them to dilute our Semitic genes.
Nejiboud 9 months ago
Oh, I'm very aware of the intermarriages, and I am against it. "
Since you are not a Mizrahi Jew (or any sort of Jew) it is really none of your business when Jews marry with each other, which is to be expected, seeing as all Jews are of one nation. Neither Jewish religion nor culture has anything to say about "Semitic genes" (which don't actually exist). You are confused. Go back to your Aryan Nations meetings if you wish to be preoccupied with pseudoscientific notions like "gene dilution".
ShmorgelBorgel 9 months ago
"there are about a million Russians in Israel... but just did Aliyah because of just one grandparent being Jewish"
Nazis shoved people into ovens because they had only one Jewish grandparent, therefore such people should be entitled to obtain Israeli nationality even if they are not Jewish under religious law (halakha). Likewise, in the ex-USSR, people with Jewish-sounding surnames from of a father or grandfather suffered discrimination as Jews and were classified as such by the Soviets.
ShmorgelBorgel 9 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
150,000 Jewish Nazi soldiers
superhamzah85 7 months ago
@superhamzah85
Nope. Not even one provable "Nazi Jewish" soldier, just a few confirmed cases of some German soldiers with partial Jewish ancestry serving in the Nazi military .This is not surprising, as Jews had resided in Germany nearly 1,000 years and many started to intermarry with Germans (mostly by converting to Christianity) in the century prior to Hitler. In most cases, they were unaware of the fact that they had a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent, and if they knew, they hid it.
ShmorgelBorgel 7 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Not even one provable Jew today can show his ancestors lived in Palestine.
Not one.
Zero.
superhamzah85 7 months ago
@superhamzah85
Well, our country is called Eretz Yisrael, not "Palestine". That's the name the British imposed on our country from 1917-1948. When my provable Jewish grandmother was born in Jerusalem in 1907 whilst it still was under Ottoman Turkish control, the country was not called "Palestine" at that time
ShmorgelBorgel 7 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
It has been called Palestine far longer than it's been called Israel - Israel was always IMPOSED on the region. Palestine is a neutral name - Israel is a tribe. Neutrality is peace - tribe is war. The Ottomans brought people in - they didn't make refugee camps like Zionists did.
Palestine existed as a nation in 1919 - when Zionists drew their map, and the majorty of population ON THIS MAP - was not Jewish. This would be treated the same everywhere - as an act of war.
superhamzah85 7 months ago
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"The Ottomans brought people in - they didn't make refugee camps like Zionists did."
Actually, during WW1, the Ottomans expelled all the population from Tel Aviv and Jaffa (Muslims, Christians and Jews)--supposedly to defend the city. However, they let the Muslims and Christians return after mere weeks, but didn't permit Jews to return--Jews only came back after the British conquest. (Don't forget how nasty the Ottomans were to Armenians.)
ShmorgelBorgel 7 months ago
@superhamzah85 re:"they didn't make refugee camps like Zionists did"
Also, don't forget all the Jews expelled from the ancient Jewish Quarter of East Jerusalem by Jordan and from Jewish villages in what became the Jordanian-occupied West Bank. Between 1948-1967--ZERO Jews were permitted to live in the Jordanian-occupied areas of former British "Palestine"...but hundreds of thousands of Arabs stayed in what became Israel. And nearly a million Jews were expelled and made refugees by Arab states.
ShmorgelBorgel 7 months ago
@ShmorgelBorgel
Ask yourself - why would Arabs purposefully, massively increase the Jewish presence in Palestine, a Jewish majority is what they were preventing, and something Zionists wanted the most.
Look past the propaganda.
superhamzah85 7 months ago
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@superhamzah85 re:"Ask yourself - why would Arabs purposefully, massively increase the Jewish presence in Palestine, a Jewish majority is what they were preventing"
Nevertheless, Jews were expelled en masse from most Arab states between 1948-1969. One reason that Arab states did so was to confiscate Jewish-owned personal and communal property--assets exceeding $300 billion dollars . And yes, all Jews were expelled from the part of the former Palestine Mandate that fell to Jordan in 1948-49.
ShmorgelBorgel 7 months ago
If your grandmother was born in Palestine - then you are a Palestinian Jew. - there are Palestinian Christians, and Muslims, and others. The PLO already recognizes your rights as a Palestinian Jew, they do not recognize the rights of someone in NEW YORK or Poland, or Russia - coming over to sleep in the bedrooms of Palestinian refugees who are banned from going home.
superhamzah85 7 months ago
"If your grandmother was born in Palestine - "
Sorry, the only people in my family who were born in Palestine were the people who were born in this country between 1917-1948, because "Palestine" was the British-imposed name on our country during that extremely brief mandate period when it was a colony of the UK. What the PLO recognizes or does not recognize is not relevant--my citizenship is Israeli and no sane Jew will ever accept being called "Palestinian".
ShmorgelBorgel 7 months ago