Income tax = Government stealing your money. I love this show but TYT is just plain wrong when it comes to taxes. Putting more money into the free market is the best way to create economic growth. Getting rid of the welfare state might be a long and painful process for some, but it will be worth it in the long run. Too bad Milton Friedman is no longer alive :(.
@SeriousPsyche Are you talking about the financial crisis? If you wonder how it occured, read up on how the government sets interest rates artificially low. That's what creates the bubbles (and as a result, the busts), and after that, all that you have is a bunch of debt. You wouldn't need nearly as high taxes as you have if you just didn't spend so much on endless wars and entitlements. Look at calvin coolidge! He lowered taxes, and had a balanced budget. Besides, only people can create jobs
@SeriousPsyche Now, I'm not saying tax cuts will always create jobs, but a fact is that most new products/services, and as a result the majority of the jobs are created by entreprenours in the free market, not by the government. It doesn't automatically mean that jobs will always be created because of tax cuts, but it improves the odds if you leave people with more money
Please read about the FairTax before you talk about it. After we get the FairTax, our standard of living will INCREASE for at least a couple reasons:
1. Current tax payers will pay LESS income tax because the revenue neutral burden will be spread to illegals and criminals as well.
2.Prices will likely drop because companies will no longer embed the expense of the tax consultants into their prices. Economic history shows profit margins remain steady (typically around 5 to 7 percent).
Please read about the FairTax before you talk about it. After we get the FairTax, our standard of living will INCREASE for at least a couple reasons:
1. Current tax payers will pay LESS income tax because the revenue neutral burden will be spread to illegals and criminals as well.
2.Prices will likely drop because companies will no longer embed the expense of the tax consultants into their prices. Economic history shows profit margins remain steady (typically around 5 to 7 percent).
You think the thousands of pages in our current tax code is working? Unemployment leveling at around 10% while we lose all of our manufacturing jobs and run higher trade deficits? TYT is dead wrong on this issue.
OK. THEY are all stupid. Any idea on how to simplify the tax code? Actually, do you have anything to say that adds anything to improving the U S? Yeah, I didn't think so. Loser!
I have yet to see anybody refute that the middle class would spend a larger percentage of their income in taxes this way. You can't make up the money you lose from having a "fair" tax without doing this, and if I'm wrong show me how. If anything we should get rid of the tax brackets and use a true progressive tax that increases by the amount, instead of hurting people in the lower part of a tax bracket. Obviously you'd cap this at a certain percentage, we don't need 90% income tax on the rich.
Wow, this guys understanding of the Fair tax is limited at best. Just adds to the idiots out there. Look guy STOP confusing people, and do the research. The Prebate is handed out based on the federal poverty level. TO EVERYONE. "They rework the money?" Like gaming the tax system we have? There would be no gaming in this manner. The taxes are collected through state sales tax, there are 45 states that currently have state sales tax . Get a clue TYT.
He almost said "Fair Tax" 1:03, but then checked himself.
Huckabee was a bad candidate, but even bad candidates often latch onto good ideas.
The middle class will get a rebate (or prebate) for basic necessities under the fairtax. You didn't address this because you DIDN'T KNOW about it. Please, Cenk, if you are going to argue against something, read up on it and argue the merits. To do otherwise is to do your show a disservice. I like TYT; I hate when they use bad arguments.
@forddyman2005 don't bother arguing with that guy he's the only one who's against the fairtax and has many accounts all using the word "dumb fuck." He's the only dumb fuck I see here.
what if you rent or retired? you'll still be taxed when you buy something. you do know included in the price of every item there are embedded taxes? so you pay for the actual item and the taxes of the companies that made the item. the fairtax would replace those embedded taxes. you'll pay basically the same price.
why are you so angry? have a offended you in some way? i have not personally attacked you and for some reason you are calling me all sorts of stuff. i'm open to a rational debate, but you have to leave the emotion at the door. do you actually think that you'll drive your point even more if you use foul language?
you make 50K a year and are taxed at 25%. you'll pay $12,500 in taxes.
under the fairtax:
you make 50K a year and spend 40K on stuff (bills, goods, services, etc). you would be taxed 25% on your spending (40K). you would pay $10,000 in taxes.
No dumb fuck -- suppose you get cancer. Suppose you rent. Suppose you live in nursing home dumb fuck./
Suppose you are retired dumb fuck - paid taxes all your life -- have little money saved, and get sick - -or have to pay rent, or have to buy expensive shit to help a handicapped person - -or just want to spend your money you saved.
You would be hit with massive taxes
Fairtax leaders know its BS, they are NOT trying to pass it. No hearings under oath in 13 years, its a fucking hoax
but you forget you wouldn't pay any income taxes. your taxes would be determined on what you spend, not on what you earn. if you want to watch your spending you would hardly pay any taxes.
i got to ask, have you actually read the book or the bill?
ford nonsense dumb fuck. Suppose my neighbor gets cancer - 200,000 disease. By Fairtax, dumb fuck, she would have to pay 50,000 dollars in sales tax, just on THAT.
What if she doesnt fucking have 50K to pay as sales tax? You dumb fucks have pretend fucking numbers -- its bullshit and the leaders know it.
Notice dumb fuck how they arent pushing this now?? Notice dumb fuck in 13 years no hearing under oath.
The fair tax is really the best form of tax. One way I've heard it explained is that you only pay the 23% sales tax on non-necessities. So you buy food and drink an stuff to survive and no taxes. But you want a nice car or tv and such and you pay it. Also the IRS being abolished is a good thing, it is the most corupt thing ever and lies. So really the fair tax only effects the people who buy "nice" things. So really it is a tax on the rich, but you still wont pay more in taxes then you do now.
You ignorant fool....the rich buy huge big ticket items that would impose huge tax implications on top of paying the normal everyday items that all us regular folks pay. No one can avoid taxes. No one. Drug dealers, people working under the table, illegals working for cash under the table all pay taxes. This would be a tax boom. You need to stop your horsecrap. This is the best tax sceme ever.
By the way, the FairTax 23%. It is a question of 60,000 pages of tax code vs. 120 pages of tax code. Would you rather pay 23% of everything you spend or 35% of everything you earn?
I read the Fairtax book -- four times. Its a complete farce. Its bogus nonsense. The math is wacko. Its magic beans. Just ONE farce - it pretends to get MOST of the taxes FROM the government. Thats right you idiots, MOST of the tax money, the GOVERNMENT will pay ITSELF. It's dumber than hell.
It fucking wouldnt -- this Fairtax is a hoax, pretend fucking nonsense, abusrd shit.
But Fairtax pretends every city state, county, and even the federal government would pay massive taxes on everything it spends. Read the fucking book a little closer. Its in the fine fucking print.
Like Page 148 FT Book "The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Its pure fucking bullshit -which is why Fairtax hides this shit.
"Real wages are 10.3%, 9.5%, and 9.2% higher in years 1, 10, and 25, respectively than would otherwise be the case. "-fairtaxorg
Ahhh, sounds great, doesn't it? But again, they are averaging all classes together -- let's look at the true picture:
Real wages of those making $10k-$150K up roughly 0.3 - 3.7%, real wages of those making less than $10k up roughly 13%, while the real wages of those making more than $150K is up nearly 50% (BHI, Table 5).
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" would give a huge tax cut to the very wealthy while raising the taxes of the middle classes disastrously (yes, even with the proposed "prebate").
you think the top income earners are paying 26%. they just collect money from their customers to remit to the government. Taxes are just a business cost passed onto consumers.
this guy is all WRONG on everything he said..read the bill that has been proposed and the fair tax book...any high school graduate can understand how and why it is good for everyone, and more important, Great for our country!!!
Amny third-grader can understand why it would screw the midle class (those making from about 25000-250000$ a year... stop falling for the BS soundbites of Boortz and look at the math.
Currently, the highest quintile pay an effective federal tax rate of 26.5%, pay 64% of all federal tax liabilities. If we assume their taxes are 23% under an FT/NST (i.e., they spend essentially 100% of their annual income on taxed items), the amount of taxes they pay in has been reduced by 13%.
This 13% of 64% they pay now is 8.3% of all federal taxes, which has to be made up by the bottom 80% of taxpayers.
They pay 36% of fed taxes, and adding the 8.3% increases their tax rate
For another example of many "Fair Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTI" fans blatant disregard for the truth, look at their claim that it has "non-partisan support."
Their definition of "non-partisan" seems to be that if even 1 Democrat is for it it is 'non-partisan" -- lolFAIL.
Just look at the "Taxation Scorecard" on AFT's own site to see just how extremely partisan the FT/NST support/opposition is.
It lowers taxes for the uber wealthy, so you guess which party suports it.
you want to drive an FT/NST suporter to think, ask how Social Security could be disbursed under an FT/NST.
"Employers will report your income," they will say.
To which I reply:
"Sweeet," all the pimps will say, "now we can report our self-employment 'income', and since there is no way to disprove, make up the amounts, reporting much higher than we make to ensure more SS$ when we retire. Pimp windfall!"
The "Fair" Tax-- every pimps' dream form of taxation.
Yeah raise money by charging the amount necessary. The middle class would stop frivolous spending. Thats what needs to happen anyway. We do not need to keep buying so much crap from China anyway. I don't think the flat tax is perfect, but the IRS does need to go away. And why didn't you do any research before you made this. The IRS, if removed, would save the tax payers $11 billion a year. Now charge more for luxury tax, up the fines for criminals, remove the lazy people from welfare, and money!
Another problem with the FT/NSt (there are soo many, they just keep coming to mind lol):
How will social security amounts be disbursed under ft/NST, since their will be no records of amounts paid in by individuals as sales taxes, and no records of individuals levels of income?
Hey dumbass, we didn't have an income tax for 137 years and we were no where near as far in debt as we are now. Thanks the the "PRIVATE CORPORATION" Federal Reserve which ironically started the same year as the income tax. Think about it dumb ass!!!
i agree sorta, but the federal reserve and income tax are not really related. But the soul reason we have a huge national debt is the federal reserve. It is after all a private bank that we allow to print our money, a right the constition gives to the govt who in turn made the bank they now must borrow money from. Btw the 16 amendment didnt make the income tax legal (according to the supreme court) so really we still have no income tax, the IRS and gov't just lie and say we do.
Not to burst your bubble but you stated [the federal reserve and income tax are not really related. ]
Don't you find it highly coincidental that they both started in 1913? Have you ever heard of or read The creature from Jekyll island? It's all about how the fed and the income tax were definitely a related subject.
Ok, so Huckabee's plan is as terrible as the rest of his campaign BUT what the hell is federal income tax paying for anyway? Roads? - Nope... gas tax. Schools? Nope... local state and property tax? If someone could prove to me that this tax is actually going to good and important things I would be very grateful.
I AM convinced that most of this money goes to the biggest private corporate welfare project ever to exist - the Federal Reserve.
Turk -- they claim the researched this. Got a news flash, they researched ship. Did they study the effects of 23% tax on nursing homes? On cancer surgeries? On rent? (yes, its on rent). On new homes? SHOW me the research they did on the effect of a huge sales tax on new homes. Show me -- show me who did the study, what they studied. Please.
Show me the study. No one studied this nonsense. Its a F- A -R -C -E.
I love this guy -- finally, a guy who has common sense. He is right -- fairtax CAN NOT POSSIBLY raise NEARLY enough to replace income,and social security AND corporation, AND inheritance AND gift tax. DOES NOT COLLECT ENOUGH. And thats just ONE problem, see below.
Any FairTax fan, please answer -- did you call any nursing to ask what they will do when you make them pay 23% sales tax on their patients? Did you call Cancer hospitals, and ask them? Did you call realtors and ask them about the 23% sales tax on new homes? Did you call the Pentagon and ask how they will pay for 23% extra cost on all they buy? No one researched this nonsense, no one called these folks. Call nursing homes, cancer centers, doctors, etc. Really -- calllllll them.
Still not stating what you do for a living or how much you make. Ulterior motives?
My employer pays me a salary, which is a fixed cost. The cost does not change, as he simply withholds a portion of that cost to forward to the government. However, there is additional costs as he has to match my withholdings in certain instances. Under fair tax, those matches go away lowering his costs. However, my fixed cost salary stays the same!
Go to fairtaxdotorg, please, and look at how theya rrive at a 23% inclusive sales tax... you obviously haven't even looked at HOW they arrive at this number.
Clearly nothing ulterior-- I have stated repeteadly I make middle class money and don't want to pay more in taxes while Paris Hilton and Bill Gates pay less.
I am self-employed in retail sales and have been for 18 years, so I know quite a bit about retail cost pricing, since I do it myself --what is your experience in this area? Do you set retail prices for your employer?
Disk -- its YOU! Hey bro -- lets try to get the FT clowns to show us their research. They claim its researched "more than any plan in history". Liars. Show us the research on what the effect of 23% sales tax on new homes. Show us that research. OR on nursing home patients. Or, on military spending. Or, on car sales. Show me the RESEARCH. Who did it - what did they do, who did they talk to?
Disk - Somewhere along the line you think that the Fair Tax is an add-on to our current system. The "fact sites" you have researched have obviously poisoned your mind or your JOB depends on our current system.
You just don't understand how it truly works. Under the fair tax, if we all pay for the same price for milk with pre-tax dollars and we all get a pre-bate, then there is no WINDFALL for anyone.
yes, we all get a prebate, but, if revenue is neutral, in the case of the middle class the prebate doesn't offset the inclusive sales taxes and wage reductions enough, making their effective tax rate more than it is now. THIS IS FROM SUPPORTERS NUMBERS, if you refuse to go look, that is your problem.
And it is a "Pimp Windfall"-- but you refuse to look at the math, so I will wait until you show me what you think is incorrect in the math I have posted before trying to explain it to you again.
Disk - Thanks for stating it exactly as I did and finally admitting that employer costs go down based on my soc. sec. example.
My employer does not save my 6.2%, because it is part of my salary that is withheld. He pays it to me, but it is withheld for the tax. Under Fair Tax, he still pays it to me, but it is not withheld. Hence, I keep it!!!
Supporters OWN NUMBERS assume he DOESN'T give it to you-- that paqrt you want to keep is part of how they REDUCE COSTS OF GOODS 22-23% before adding the 23% inclusive sales tax.
So, if your employer only cuts costs 5-15% but has to add 23% as sales tax, guess what-- prices go up.
By your explanation, pimps get a windfall with the fair tax, right!?
So, what do they get now? People work for a paycheck that has federal, soc. sec. and medicare withholdings while pimps work for CASH. We have pay-roll taxes, they don't. We pay with after-tax dollars, they don't.
We all pay the same prices at the grocery store genius, so tell me what you call our current system?
The point is NOT that it is okay for "pimps" not to pay now, the point is that NOT ONLY do they not pay more under the FT aka NaSTi, they get a prebate also, so they have a windfall.
Not only does the FT NOT solve the problem, it gives "pimps" free money, so they can consume more (your "free money" is assumed to be offset by lower wages--by FTers own numbers).
This video has had 1,821 views. This is not worth my time.
Anyone interested, please read my PARTS 1-9 first, then read Diskatopia's arguments. Then, go to the FAIRTAX website and see who is accurate.
Diskatopia still has not identified what he/she does for a living or how much he/she makes. Personally, I think there are ulterior motives. Either way, he/she is clearly not separating fact from fiction. Look at the arguments, do some homework and make an educated decision.
I told you what my "motive" was-- I don't want to pay more in taxes, and the "Fair aka "NaSTi" tax will hammer the middle class (rough income range 30k-300k)... go back and reread my posts.
You are the one who cites one site as your source, let's see those numbers... and then perhaps YOU shold do the homework by reading the sites that explain why the FT is FAIL.
Please, do go to fairtaxdotorg, and show us the numbers which make you think the middle class wil not pay more.
PS- if you can't admit that the FT would result ina windfall for "Pimps" and "drug dealers" then you obviously aren't even looking at the basic economic math and numbers, and are just stubbornly holding onto a cultish idea.
Wow, I just realized I made a mistake-- EVEN IF PRICES GO UP, the "Fair Tax" (aka National sales tax-inclusive, aka NaSTI) is a "Pimp Windfall" because of the prebate... the math:
Now: Milk $5, pimpproduct $50, pimp can buy 10 milks
Assume prices go up 25% under FT...
Milk $6.25, pimpproduct %62.50... Pimp can buy 10 milks
the pimps' prices are proportional to societal prices!
Then the pimp gets a prebate.. bingo, "Pimp Windfall"....
TheYoungTurnks: This country ran just fine before the world wars without income tax. They didn't teach you that in a Federally funded school I know. So it's not Ridiculus, it's the way it used to and should be. Fair Tax is not logical, it would drive NEW home prices up 23~30% because of the increased tax on materials to build. If people saved with Fair tax, remember the govt prints money out of thin air deflating your savings. time for Ron Paul revolution!
re Part 7) True-- and the "Fair" Tax, aka National Sales Tax aka "NaSTy" does nothing to fix this problem, and in fact shifts the burden more onto the middle class (back to my 30k-300k)... supporters OWN NUMBERS show this... see the BEacon HIll papers pages 36-37.
Do you see the sleight-of-hand they are doing on pg37 to make it seem "Fair"?
re Part 6)That is true-- WE ALL PAY THE SAME PRICES.
But, for prices not to go WAY up, your employer has had to LOWER your wages to keep prices the same (this is from supporters own numbers), so if prices stay the same and your paycheck stays the same and pimps' income stays the same, what has changed?
The answer is: NOTHING.
This is the shell game of the "Fair" Tax... all it generally does is rename "embedded tax costs" as "inclusive sales tax"...
re Part 5) I never said that was fair, I pointed out how the FT aka National Sales Tax does not solve this problem, unless prices rise (penalizing all of us), and in fact the pimps will receive prebate checks, so if prices stay the same or go down-- the FT GIVES PIMPS A WINDFALL: more bling for pimps, courtesy of the FT.
Employers could not withhold a 6.2% soc. sec. tax that would not exist under fair tax. In addition, they certainly wouldn't match the 6.2% soc. sec. tax that would not exist.
Hence, their COSTS would go down and my money would not need to be forwarded to the government, therefore would stay in my paycheck!
FTers numbers (fairtaxdotorg) assume your employer lowers your wages-- MOST (15-20%) of the 23% in COSTS savings come from that assumption to keep prices from rising under the FT.
re Part 3) You are getting close to seeing it-- now, ask yourself, IF those taxes where replaced by the "Fair" Tax, if your employer gives that $11,629.20 to you in your paycheck, is that an expense for your employer?
IF it is an expense, it is a cost of goods/services sold, right?
re part 1) I say 30k-300k because that is the income range that would be hammered by an National Sales Tax. Thus my motive is I dmn well don't want pay a higher effective tax rate while BIll Gates and Paris Hilton pay less.
Sorry twtheisen, but you are still falling for the "keep your whole paycheck" wordplay. Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to you IS the exaple of the self-employed businessperson.
1)Sam owns a business. Let's say he sells widgets he makes for $1.00.
Forget the long explanation, the previous explanations should suffice if you will read them and think them through-- and if you won't, tell me where the 23% that businesses will cut there costs will come from, with supporting numbers (here's a tip-- most of that comes from lowering employees wages to at or near their current takehome).
PART 1 -- First, claiming you make between $30 -- $200 k per year is extremely vague! Second, please do not reply to and separate my comments. Rather, comment in the general forum.
I am an outside sales rep. for a distribution company and have made between $65-75 k per year the last two years. We sell products for manufacturers (Corporations). I am 27 years old. I am married and have a wife and six month old child. Currently, I have established an S-Corp. and am starting my own company.
PART 2 -- Second, the embedded taxes Fair Tax advocates speak about are COSTS that corporations/bus. owners pass along to consumers through their products. Every corp./business has a specific profit platform or margin % that they utilize. Any time their COSTS (taxes, employee costs, raw materials, fuel, etc.) go up, they simply implement a price increase and pass these costs along to consumers and/or layoff employees to help offset these increases in cost that lower profit. Sound familiar?
PART 3 -- That is why the current tax system is constantly ridiculed. The rich stay rich because they pass along the rising costs to consumers! My numbers on 2007 taxes paid:
- Federal Withholding - $7,026.00
- Soc. Sec. Employee - $3,730.70
- Medicare Employee - $872.50
- TOTAL = $11,629.20 dollars
Third, employers pay taxes on behalf of their employees. Example: employees pay 6.2% to social security and their employers match that with 6.2% to equal 12.4% total.
PART 4 -- Under the fair tax, my employer would not have had to pay taxes on my behalf or withhold these taxes. They COULD NOT and WOULD NOT withhold these taxes if they did not exist and would have no way to justify withholding them.
Therefore, employer costs would go down and I would keep this money, which would go towards the 23% national sales tax (Fair Tax) when I decide to consume the specified goods/services which are applicable.
PART 5 -- Current tax system, if a drug dealer, an illegal immigrant and an honest/legal employee walk into a store; they will all pay the same $3.19 price for their fat-free skim milk (same price = same costs/embedded taxes paid by all). The difference is the honest American employee has Federal, Soc. Sec. and Medicare taxes withheld from their paycheck and uses AFTER-TAX dollars while the others DO NOT pay these taxes as they usually work/sell for CASH!
PART 6 -- Fair Tax system, if a drug dealer, an illegal immigrant and an honest/legal employee walk into a store; they will all pay the same $2.80 price for their fat-free skim milk, but would ALL incur a 23% national sales tax at the register. There is no difference as they all would be paying with PRE-TAX dollars. Sound fair?
PART 7 -- Current tax system, lower and middle class citizens who do not own businesses do not have the same tax advantages that corps./business owners have and therefore pay more in taxes.
Warren Buffet admits that he pays very little into the system, because he can utilize the 66,000 pages of current tax code to write off most of his lifestyle.
PART 8 -- Fair tax system, everyone can apply through the Social Security Admin. for their monthly pre-bate to cover necessities of life up to the poverty level (numbers formulated by Dept. of Health/Human Services). My current family status would allow me to get $458.00 dollars every month ($5,496 annually) by check, smart card or electronic funds transfer to offset my basic necessities of life. Sound fair?
PART 9 -- Fair tax system, anyone under the poverty level is un-taxed through the pre-bate! All citizens would get to decide how much they pay in based on their consumption of 23% fair tax applicable goods/services.
Anyone can live abroad or buy used to avoid the fair tax as much as possible, but it is no different than them hiding their money in offshore accounts and writing off foreign homes and travel because they have a "business office" in that home.
PART 10 -- Lastly, our 12 million illegal's currently avoiding PAYROLL TAXES would have to have a valid SSN and be legal in order to be eligible for the monthly pre-bate. In addition, through taxed consumption of applicable goods/services, they would pay for the services that they currently get covered for FREE compliments of the American taxpayer.
There are so many other things (trade, imports/exports, etc.) as well. Please, check out - FAIRTAX dot O R G - for the facts!
No, they wouldn't, not if prices stay the same or go down-- again, that is the wordplay "Fair" tax fans love to play, first claiming we all pay "embedded taxes" and then just renaming those as an "inclusive sales tax"...
Think it through again--
If an illegal pays $5.00 for milk now and $5.00 for milk under an NST-- how much more is he paying?
The answer is $0... all supporter are doing in this scenario (prices stay the same) is renaming the 23%.
Diskatopia, What about Ron Paul's Plan? which is just get rid of the IRS and leave everything else the same...You would still Pay FICA and Social Insecurity...He explains it well and I believe it is plausible--better than the status quo of the gov't collecting some of your pay and give it to Big Business thru Corporate subsidies or spend it in a Foreign Policy disaster like the billions to Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, and most notably Israel...
I make between 30k and 200k a year, and I don't want to pay more in taxes which I and most everyone in those income ranges would under an NST, while Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Paris Hilton would pay less.
But now you are thinking.. legal citizens DO pay taxes plus the same prices... so now that we've shown that if prices stay the same illegals will pay no more, think through the other two possibilities-- prices go down, or prices go up.
Prices go down-- illegals pay less for items, as do we.
Prices go up-- illegals pay more for items, as do we.
Get it now? Under a Sales Tax, you cannot separate out any group, the price changes, nomatter which way, effect EVERYONE.
So the next step is to say "wait a minute, if I don't pay FIT and FICA under an NST, and prices stay the same-- how is the government collecting the same revenue.
Here's the shell game being used by the financiers of the "Fair" Tax-- it is assumed your emplyer lowers your gross pay (basically an average across the board of 22-23%)-- so in effect you are bringing home the same amount or LESS and paying the same prices for goods.
And this is how the middle class gets screwed-- they end up with the same or less paycheck and even with the "prebate" (as compared to current refunds), their effective tax rate is higher than now.
The income tax is unconstitutional. Our constitution had to be amended to enable it and it started out as a one page system. Now, it's 66,000 pages and the IRS employs more people than The FBI and Homeland Security combined.
Diskatopia - You don't understand that illegal/underground people do not get FEDERAL INCOME TAX, SOCIAL SECURITY TAX or MEDICARE TAX deducted from their earnings. They don't get STATE INCOME TAX deducted either.
If spending $1.00 now has 22-23c of embedded tax costs (SUPPORTERS OWN NUMBERS), and spending $1.00 under the NST has 22-23c of "inclusive sales tax"-- what is the difference to the pimp?
How much more is he paying for that $1.00 item? Answer: $0
So he's paying not 1 penny more for the same items, and he's getting a prebate.
If prices stay the same, this is a "Pimp Windfall"-- free money for pimps.
Under the current system, we all pay the same prices for goods, but pimps work for cash and pay with "pre-tax" cash and I work for a paycheck and pay with "post-payroll tax" cash
Now, you tell me how that is fair?
Under the Fair Tax, we all pay the same prices for goods, but we all pay with "pre-tax" cash, which is fair to everyone as it forces everyone to pay in!!!
I never said it was fair... I showed that pimps will in fact not pay more under and NST if prices go down or stay the same, and in fact they will have a windfall of free governement money (prebate).
Under the Fair Tax, I would not have to be without approximately $14,000 dollars of my own money every year and then have to pay someone a fee to help me get some back through wasteless tax returns and the hassles they include.
I don't want to be punished for earning more money, I want to be able to decide for myself how much the government gets based on my consumption. the pre-bate monthly will cover my necessities and everything else is on me.
No under SUPPORTERS OWN NUMBERS you will be out that 14000-- they assume your employer will keep that amount, as IT IS PART OF THE EMBEDDED TAX COSTS. IF employers don'yt keep that amount, prices go up.
That is the confusion many supporters are having-- whether employers pay the FIT FICA amounts to the gov or give it to the employee-- it is still a business cost if they don't keep it.
A "National Sales Tax" would put the burden only on people who like to consume beyond their means.
Rich people would pay more, because they buy more luxurious and expensive things. They couldn't write off as a business expense under the Fair Tax, they would pay tax on it.
Right now, you do not control how much the government takes from you; they do. Under the fair tax, you decide every time you buy something.
Continuing, some of America's richest would bring their money back into the country since they wouldn't need to hide it anymore.
Every single one of the 12 million illegals would have to start paying taxes.
If YOU consume, you pay tax. You can apply for the pre-bate, but that will only cover costs up to poverty level. They aren't going to cross the border to buy their groceries and goods and services!
If you read a little more, you would know that they are offering different options to receive pre-bate monthly. Check, smart card (debit card) and electronic funds transfer. You would not have to send out checks to everyone.
Next, no-one engaging in illegal activity files a tax return. But, they do file for and get various aid. Last time I checked, prostitutes don't have health insurance coverage.
You still don't understand-- it doesn't matter if illegal folks are filing now-- SUPPORTERS of the fair tax claim that there are "embedded tax costs" in everything we buy. "Pimps" aleady pay this. If prices stay the same, all you are doing is renaming the "embedded tax costs" as "inclusive sales tax". Think it through, you will see it.
1)Thee varous card companies charge fees all along the transfer path, so unless the gov pays this, the person paying the prebate wil have to pay it out of the prebate.
2) Even if you don't send checks to everyone, you are sending 100s of millions of checks a year... and doing all the record keeping and electronic number crunching... and you think this can be done for LESS THAN $1 year/citizen (thus less than $4.00 a year per family of 4)...clearly not possible in the real world.
The "Fair" Tax (aka National Sales Tax aka "NaSTy" tax) is a Very Bad Idea that would shift the tax burden onto the middle classes, just as stated in the video.
Read the Fair Tax book to get more information on this topic! Rich people and businesses do not pay their fair share (Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad) I know it seems like paying more when you have a 20% sales Tax but rigt now the sales Tax is about 6-8%. Therefore, you only would pay the difference and have your whole paycheck to buy more...
You didn't read the book carefully-- by "whole paycheck" they mean THE SAME AMOUNT YOU TAKE HOME NOW. They assume that employers will LOWER WAGES by the amounts they currently send to the gov in FIT and FICA-- because THOSE PAYMENTS are a major %age of the "Embedded Tax Costs"....
Obviously you Young Turks don't come from a family with money or you do not understand what it is like having a father who worked his butt off his whole life for his family paid taxes all through his life, then dies, wants to pass his wealth to his children and grandchildren, but instead the government double dips taking a million from his 2 million estate!!!! Hence why people who make money end up opening accounts off shore! Man get educated!
Also... with the FAIR TAX we can get Tax money from the drug dealers, prostitutes, criminals & illegals; this group which end up having tax payers pay for special programs like food stamps, housing and grants for free education. PLEASE!
with the FAIR TAX we can get Tax money from the drug dealers, prostitutes, criminals & illegals"
This is not true... if prices don't go up, pimps and drug dealers don't pay any more (it is just renaming alleged "embedded" tax costs as "inclusive"sales tax)... in FACT they would receive prebates... this is a "Pimp" Windfall Tax.
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you need to get educated before rant on HUCKABEE'S TAX PLAN! You do not even know what it is called. "ummm aaa sales tax" Try FAIR TAX! Obviously you are not like myself a "business owner" & understand that we are OVER TAXED! Dude read the constitution GET YOUR FACTS before you rant TO PEOPLE ON TV. Are you trying to dumb down THE USA! Communist
The National Sales Tax (marketing-ploy name "Fair" Tax) is a Very Bad Idea... and IF you make between about $30k and $300k now, your assertion that you are overtaxed now shows that you haven't looked at the "Fair" supporters' own numbers-- under an NST those making 30-300k will pay MORE to keep it "revenue neutral"....
Oh, I guess Hilary's Ten Planks of Communism is better suited for this country. Or perhaps we should have a Muslim in the White House, yeah? Bet you'd looove that.
how can u call him foolish! if ur american, ud know that the government is ripping off americans even those working outside the country to pay for itself. for a candidate to say that they wanna get rid of tax is not only ridiculous but plain stupid, and to get rid of the irs, common.
dont take it out on a presenter,the guy is tellin u facts
With FAIR TAX we can get Tax money from the rich that shelter their money in off shore accounts, the drug dealers, prostitutes, criminals & illegals; this lower group which end up having tax payers pay for special programs like food stamps, housing and grants for free education. Then PLEASE!
^ And when taxes on those things are raised, and the majority of consumers (the middle class) can't afford them anymore, what do you think happens to the businesses that sell them? Their only markets would be in wealthy neighborhoods. They'd move out, taking those goods and all those jobs with them.
No jobs? Unemployment rises. Crime rises. Poverty rises.
Yeah, this Sales Tax idea sounds like just the thing we need.
So that means you raise the tax on "non-daily" goods, like automobiles, electronics and appliances...things lower-income and middle-income families to depend on to survive?
Yeah, raise the taxes on the refrigerator the poor families need to keep their food fresh and edible. Raise the taxes on the car that family needs to get to work and school. They really have the money to be spending more on those necessities.
He's saying that a sales tax (which hits people equally) compared to a progressive tax, where richer people pay more, is going to favour the rich and disfavour the less affluent, this is not a matter of opinion, it's an obvious fact.
The matter of opinion is whether a progressive tax system is more fair. You can debate that all you want, but the a flat tax favouring the high income bracket is a fact, not an opinion.
What about developed countries that have flat taxes? I am no rich, but I am not poor either. Everyone should pay the same, rich or poor, there's nothing wrong with that! Live on less than what you make...
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What you just said is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. No where in your incoherent rambling did anything make sense or was a rational thought, we are all dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
You've put little thought into your little brain on this matter.
Explain point by point why he's wrong. The money's gotta come from somewhere. If it's not coming from the Rich anymore it has to come from the poor and the middle class. Who don't have much money to begin with.
Well, after years of Bush's overspending, you have to pay that interest somehow. Either way, I don't believe the income tax is earmarked for interest payments.
The social security admin. would issue pre-bates monthly based on poverty level stats from the dept. of health/human services to every family that simply asks to receive them.
The stores where goods were purchased would collect the national sales tax and it would be forwarded just like state taxes are handled.
It will cost us $250 million annually to send out pre-bate checks. It costs us $250 billion annually in tax dollars to run the IRS, just so they can take our money.
How do you propose accurately sending out over 500 million checks a year (and probably well over that, probably over a billion) at a cost of less than 40-50 cents a check?
And according to supporters own numbers, the IRS doesn't cost anywhere near 250billion... that is roughly the TOTAL societal cost of the current tax system, not just the IRS cost.
Seriously, fair tax won't work. Everyone would understate how much they make, there would be a larger black market, and then the government would get revenue shortfalls. Secondly, think about baby boomers and retirees, they'll be paying double taxes, once when they made their money, and now again when they're consuming. How is this "fair"
There's plenty of information about the Fair Tax, you might want to read it. There are books, web sites. It had over 60 co-sponsors in the house last year.
Are you too lazy or is it that you can't read? Either way, you've got big problems with the current tax system because it requires LOTS of work and LOTS of reading. Even the IRS isn't sure what it says because of its complexity.
As a math nerd I feel an urge to argue semantics. It's not regressive, it's flat, whereas the income tax is progressive. However, since propensity to spend lower the richer you are (just like Cenk says), the poorer you are the harder it will hit you.
Yep.. Actually it would still be a progressive system with the rebates and all... That said it's a completely stupid idea and should only be appealing to you if you're in the richest 90 percentile and an utter greedy dipshit :)
It IS regressive in the classic economic sense with respect to taxes -- it is regressive across income, it is only "flat" across expenditures, which is the proponents shifty way of trying to pretend it is "Fair" when in fact is is "NaSTy"(counter marketing name for the National sales tax :) )
Abolishing the IRS is pure populism, hey let's all blame the IRS for our troubles and abolish it!
OK and how can we do anything as a society at that point, including having a military to protect us from criminals, terrorists, and invasion?
TechnoDevotee 6 months ago
Income tax = Government stealing your money. I love this show but TYT is just plain wrong when it comes to taxes. Putting more money into the free market is the best way to create economic growth. Getting rid of the welfare state might be a long and painful process for some, but it will be worth it in the long run. Too bad Milton Friedman is no longer alive :(.
Chaaarge 1 year ago
@Chaaarge Did you not get the message from 10 years of tax cuts? Did that create any jobs or destroy the economy?
SeriousPsyche 5 months ago
@SeriousPsyche Are you talking about the financial crisis? If you wonder how it occured, read up on how the government sets interest rates artificially low. That's what creates the bubbles (and as a result, the busts), and after that, all that you have is a bunch of debt. You wouldn't need nearly as high taxes as you have if you just didn't spend so much on endless wars and entitlements. Look at calvin coolidge! He lowered taxes, and had a balanced budget. Besides, only people can create jobs
Chaaarge 5 months ago
@SeriousPsyche Now, I'm not saying tax cuts will always create jobs, but a fact is that most new products/services, and as a result the majority of the jobs are created by entreprenours in the free market, not by the government. It doesn't automatically mean that jobs will always be created because of tax cuts, but it improves the odds if you leave people with more money
Chaaarge 5 months ago
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Please read about the FairTax before you talk about it. After we get the FairTax, our standard of living will INCREASE for at least a couple reasons:
1. Current tax payers will pay LESS income tax because the revenue neutral burden will be spread to illegals and criminals as well.
2.Prices will likely drop because companies will no longer embed the expense of the tax consultants into their prices. Economic history shows profit margins remain steady (typically around 5 to 7 percent).
urgener 1 year ago
Please read about the FairTax before you talk about it. After we get the FairTax, our standard of living will INCREASE for at least a couple reasons:
1. Current tax payers will pay LESS income tax because the revenue neutral burden will be spread to illegals and criminals as well.
2.Prices will likely drop because companies will no longer embed the expense of the tax consultants into their prices. Economic history shows profit margins remain steady (typically around 5 to 7 percent).
urgener 1 year ago
You think the thousands of pages in our current tax code is working? Unemployment leveling at around 10% while we lose all of our manufacturing jobs and run higher trade deficits? TYT is dead wrong on this issue.
Endafed 1 year ago
This guy is a frigin liberal. And he will do anything to spite republicans
j19527 1 year ago
OK. THEY are all stupid. Any idea on how to simplify the tax code? Actually, do you have anything to say that adds anything to improving the U S? Yeah, I didn't think so. Loser!
WECantThink 1 year ago
I have yet to see anybody refute that the middle class would spend a larger percentage of their income in taxes this way. You can't make up the money you lose from having a "fair" tax without doing this, and if I'm wrong show me how. If anything we should get rid of the tax brackets and use a true progressive tax that increases by the amount, instead of hurting people in the lower part of a tax bracket. Obviously you'd cap this at a certain percentage, we don't need 90% income tax on the rich.
Macabre215 1 year ago
The fair tax is a great idea. Im left of center BTW.
Bendc1970A1 1 year ago
This guy is a fuckiin idiot and obvously hasnt reserched the fair tax.
rightwingrocks 1 year ago
Wow, this guys understanding of the Fair tax is limited at best. Just adds to the idiots out there. Look guy STOP confusing people, and do the research. The Prebate is handed out based on the federal poverty level. TO EVERYONE. "They rework the money?" Like gaming the tax system we have? There would be no gaming in this manner. The taxes are collected through state sales tax, there are 45 states that currently have state sales tax . Get a clue TYT.
asleeperj 1 year ago
He almost said "Fair Tax" 1:03, but then checked himself.
Huckabee was a bad candidate, but even bad candidates often latch onto good ideas.
The middle class will get a rebate (or prebate) for basic necessities under the fairtax. You didn't address this because you DIDN'T KNOW about it. Please, Cenk, if you are going to argue against something, read up on it and argue the merits. To do otherwise is to do your show a disservice. I like TYT; I hate when they use bad arguments.
thebgbb 1 year ago
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rightwingrocks 1 year ago
good debating with you. i'll look forward to your response.
take care.
forddyman2005 2 years ago
@forddyman2005 don't bother arguing with that guy he's the only one who's against the fairtax and has many accounts all using the word "dumb fuck." He's the only dumb fuck I see here.
FamousDave2186 1 year ago
@FamousDave2186 its sad to see how the process of ideas gets mucked up by people who fail to have a good debate.
forddyman2005 1 year ago
navybeer-i'll answer you anyway:
what if you rent or retired? you'll still be taxed when you buy something. you do know included in the price of every item there are embedded taxes? so you pay for the actual item and the taxes of the companies that made the item. the fairtax would replace those embedded taxes. you'll pay basically the same price.
forddyman2005 2 years ago
navybeer-
why are you so angry? have a offended you in some way? i have not personally attacked you and for some reason you are calling me all sorts of stuff. i'm open to a rational debate, but you have to leave the emotion at the door. do you actually think that you'll drive your point even more if you use foul language?
forddyman2005 2 years ago
lets use this example: (rough example)
under the current tax system:
you make 50K a year and are taxed at 25%. you'll pay $12,500 in taxes.
under the fairtax:
you make 50K a year and spend 40K on stuff (bills, goods, services, etc). you would be taxed 25% on your spending (40K). you would pay $10,000 in taxes.
what system would you benefit from?
forddyman2005 2 years ago
No dumb fuck -- suppose you get cancer. Suppose you rent. Suppose you live in nursing home dumb fuck./
Suppose you are retired dumb fuck - paid taxes all your life -- have little money saved, and get sick - -or have to pay rent, or have to buy expensive shit to help a handicapped person - -or just want to spend your money you saved.
You would be hit with massive taxes
Fairtax leaders know its BS, they are NOT trying to pass it. No hearings under oath in 13 years, its a fucking hoax
NavyBeer 2 years ago
Huckabee wants the worlds HIGHEST FUCKING sales tax on cancer care, rent, utitlites, gasoline, ect.
The "Fairtax" is a MASSIVE fucking tax -- and its on everything. On all your RENT, on your car insurance, on your medical bills, EVERY FUCKING THING.
And its a HUGE fucking tax. I hope Huck keeps this tax plan, and doesnt weasel out of it. Its total insanity.
Tie Huckabee to this bullshit before he weasels out. Nail his ass to this tax - he never gets 10% of the vote in any primary
NavyBeer 2 years ago
but you forget you wouldn't pay any income taxes. your taxes would be determined on what you spend, not on what you earn. if you want to watch your spending you would hardly pay any taxes.
i got to ask, have you actually read the book or the bill?
forddyman2005 2 years ago
ford nonsense dumb fuck. Suppose my neighbor gets cancer - 200,000 disease. By Fairtax, dumb fuck, she would have to pay 50,000 dollars in sales tax, just on THAT.
What if she doesnt fucking have 50K to pay as sales tax? You dumb fucks have pretend fucking numbers -- its bullshit and the leaders know it.
Notice dumb fuck how they arent pushing this now?? Notice dumb fuck in 13 years no hearing under oath.
Because THEY know its pure fucking BS./
NavyBeer 2 years ago
The fair tax is really the best form of tax. One way I've heard it explained is that you only pay the 23% sales tax on non-necessities. So you buy food and drink an stuff to survive and no taxes. But you want a nice car or tv and such and you pay it. Also the IRS being abolished is a good thing, it is the most corupt thing ever and lies. So really the fair tax only effects the people who buy "nice" things. So really it is a tax on the rich, but you still wont pay more in taxes then you do now.
MajorGeneralONeill 2 years ago
You ignorant fool....the rich buy huge big ticket items that would impose huge tax implications on top of paying the normal everyday items that all us regular folks pay. No one can avoid taxes. No one. Drug dealers, people working under the table, illegals working for cash under the table all pay taxes. This would be a tax boom. You need to stop your horsecrap. This is the best tax sceme ever.
dwill6413 2 years ago
This guy doesn't understand economics.
By the way, the FairTax 23%. It is a question of 60,000 pages of tax code vs. 120 pages of tax code. Would you rather pay 23% of everything you spend or 35% of everything you earn?
capitalist4life 2 years ago 2
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The key to Fairtax is bullshit. Fairtax is based in fine print on a massive surcharge that cities and states would have to pay.
Why the fuck does Fairtax hide this shit in the fine print? It woudl be a massive fucking surcharge on all city and state spending.
For example, if a state built a highway for 4 billion -- they would have to give federal government 1.5 billion in sales taxes!
Its fucking NUTS. And they hide this shit.
Google Fairtax absurdity -- learn what shit it is.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
I read the Fairtax book -- four times. Its a complete farce. Its bogus nonsense. The math is wacko. Its magic beans. Just ONE farce - it pretends to get MOST of the taxes FROM the government. Thats right you idiots, MOST of the tax money, the GOVERNMENT will pay ITSELF. It's dumber than hell.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
How would the government pay itself in this plan?
capitalist4life 2 years ago
How would the government pay itself?
It fucking wouldnt -- this Fairtax is a hoax, pretend fucking nonsense, abusrd shit.
But Fairtax pretends every city state, county, and even the federal government would pay massive taxes on everything it spends. Read the fucking book a little closer. Its in the fine fucking print.
Like Page 148 FT Book "The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Its pure fucking bullshit -which is why Fairtax hides this shit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
you ever think of....doing more than one take when you stumble over your words?
blindware 2 years ago
"Real wages are 10.3%, 9.5%, and 9.2% higher in years 1, 10, and 25, respectively than would otherwise be the case. "-fairtaxorg
Ahhh, sounds great, doesn't it? But again, they are averaging all classes together -- let's look at the true picture:
Real wages of those making $10k-$150K up roughly 0.3 - 3.7%, real wages of those making less than $10k up roughly 13%, while the real wages of those making more than $150K is up nearly 50% (BHI, Table 5).
"Fair" Tax = FAIL.
Diskwin 3 years ago
Effective Federal Tax Rates 2007(as estimated by the Congressional Udget Office), FICA/FT:
1ST Quintile: 5.7%
2nd: 12.3%
3rd: 15.9%
4th: 20%
Top: 26.5%
Top 1% : 30.9%
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" would give a huge tax cut to the very wealthy while raising the taxes of the middle classes disastrously (yes, even with the proposed "prebate").
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
you think the top income earners are paying 26%. they just collect money from their customers to remit to the government. Taxes are just a business cost passed onto consumers.
dtvgmedia 2 years ago 2
this guy is all WRONG on everything he said..read the bill that has been proposed and the fair tax book...any high school graduate can understand how and why it is good for everyone, and more important, Great for our country!!!
LILGEO3 3 years ago
Amny third-grader can understand why it would screw the midle class (those making from about 25000-250000$ a year... stop falling for the BS soundbites of Boortz and look at the math.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 3 years ago
Currently, the highest quintile pay an effective federal tax rate of 26.5%, pay 64% of all federal tax liabilities. If we assume their taxes are 23% under an FT/NST (i.e., they spend essentially 100% of their annual income on taxed items), the amount of taxes they pay in has been reduced by 13%.
This 13% of 64% they pay now is 8.3% of all federal taxes, which has to be made up by the bottom 80% of taxpayers.
They pay 36% of fed taxes, and adding the 8.3% increases their tax rate
Diskatopia 4 years ago
For another example of many "Fair Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTI" fans blatant disregard for the truth, look at their claim that it has "non-partisan support."
Their definition of "non-partisan" seems to be that if even 1 Democrat is for it it is 'non-partisan" -- lolFAIL.
Just look at the "Taxation Scorecard" on AFT's own site to see just how extremely partisan the FT/NST support/opposition is.
It lowers taxes for the uber wealthy, so you guess which party suports it.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you want to drive an FT/NST suporter to think, ask how Social Security could be disbursed under an FT/NST.
"Employers will report your income," they will say.
To which I reply:
"Sweeet," all the pimps will say, "now we can report our self-employment 'income', and since there is no way to disprove, make up the amounts, reporting much higher than we make to ensure more SS$ when we retire. Pimp windfall!"
The "Fair" Tax-- every pimps' dream form of taxation.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Yeah raise money by charging the amount necessary. The middle class would stop frivolous spending. Thats what needs to happen anyway. We do not need to keep buying so much crap from China anyway. I don't think the flat tax is perfect, but the IRS does need to go away. And why didn't you do any research before you made this. The IRS, if removed, would save the tax payers $11 billion a year. Now charge more for luxury tax, up the fines for criminals, remove the lazy people from welfare, and money!
videoaccess001 4 years ago
Another problem with the FT/NSt (there are soo many, they just keep coming to mind lol):
How will social security amounts be disbursed under ft/NST, since their will be no records of amounts paid in by individuals as sales taxes, and no records of individuals levels of income?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Hey dumbass, we didn't have an income tax for 137 years and we were no where near as far in debt as we are now. Thanks the the "PRIVATE CORPORATION" Federal Reserve which ironically started the same year as the income tax. Think about it dumb ass!!!
jackdforrp 4 years ago
Tax on income started during the Civil War.
Before (and after) that most money was raised by huge tariffs, which do not work well in the modern world competitive economy.
But no matter where one stands regarding an income tax, to replace it with a National Sales Tax would be insane.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NaSTI" is FAIL.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
i agree sorta, but the federal reserve and income tax are not really related. But the soul reason we have a huge national debt is the federal reserve. It is after all a private bank that we allow to print our money, a right the constition gives to the govt who in turn made the bank they now must borrow money from. Btw the 16 amendment didnt make the income tax legal (according to the supreme court) so really we still have no income tax, the IRS and gov't just lie and say we do.
MajorGeneralONeill 2 years ago
Not to burst your bubble but you stated [the federal reserve and income tax are not really related. ]
Don't you find it highly coincidental that they both started in 1913? Have you ever heard of or read The creature from Jekyll island? It's all about how the fed and the income tax were definitely a related subject.
jackdforrp 2 years ago
Ok, so Huckabee's plan is as terrible as the rest of his campaign BUT what the hell is federal income tax paying for anyway? Roads? - Nope... gas tax. Schools? Nope... local state and property tax? If someone could prove to me that this tax is actually going to good and important things I would be very grateful.
I AM convinced that most of this money goes to the biggest private corporate welfare project ever to exist - the Federal Reserve.
kevinbenhagen 4 years ago
Huckabee disengenuousness today, January 13--
Huckabee- (Paraphrasing)"I would lower marginal tax rates"...
Translation: I will give the wealthy another big tax cut.
Very sly wordplay on his part. Just like much of the "research" (lol) at fairtaxdotorg
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Turk -- they claim the researched this. Got a news flash, they researched ship. Did they study the effects of 23% tax on nursing homes? On cancer surgeries? On rent? (yes, its on rent). On new homes? SHOW me the research they did on the effect of a huge sales tax on new homes. Show me -- show me who did the study, what they studied. Please.
Show me the study. No one studied this nonsense. Its a F- A -R -C -E.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
I love this guy -- finally, a guy who has common sense. He is right -- fairtax CAN NOT POSSIBLY raise NEARLY enough to replace income,and social security AND corporation, AND inheritance AND gift tax. DOES NOT COLLECT ENOUGH. And thats just ONE problem, see below.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Any FairTax fan, please answer -- did you call any nursing to ask what they will do when you make them pay 23% sales tax on their patients? Did you call Cancer hospitals, and ask them? Did you call realtors and ask them about the 23% sales tax on new homes? Did you call the Pentagon and ask how they will pay for 23% extra cost on all they buy? No one researched this nonsense, no one called these folks. Call nursing homes, cancer centers, doctors, etc. Really -- calllllll them.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
YET AGAIN, not stating what you do for a living or how much you make.
I would hate to find out you are an accountant and need those 66,000 pages of tax code to justify your job.
twtheisen 4 years ago
Uhuh, yeah..
I'm not an accountant, but even if I were, "attacking the messenger" doesn't disprove the math.
Throw a few "straw men" in for good measure while you're at it, lol.
Diskatopia 4 years ago 2
Sighs, not sigghs.
Still not stating what you do for a living or how much you make. Ulterior motives?
My employer pays me a salary, which is a fixed cost. The cost does not change, as he simply withholds a portion of that cost to forward to the government. However, there is additional costs as he has to match my withholdings in certain instances. Under fair tax, those matches go away lowering his costs. However, my fixed cost salary stays the same!
twtheisen 4 years ago
In that scenario, prices go up-- get it yet?
Go to fairtaxdotorg, please, and look at how theya rrive at a 23% inclusive sales tax... you obviously haven't even looked at HOW they arrive at this number.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Clearly nothing ulterior-- I have stated repeteadly I make middle class money and don't want to pay more in taxes while Paris Hilton and Bill Gates pay less.
I am self-employed in retail sales and have been for 18 years, so I know quite a bit about retail cost pricing, since I do it myself --what is your experience in this area? Do you set retail prices for your employer?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Disk -- its YOU! Hey bro -- lets try to get the FT clowns to show us their research. They claim its researched "more than any plan in history". Liars. Show us the research on what the effect of 23% sales tax on new homes. Show us that research. OR on nursing home patients. Or, on military spending. Or, on car sales. Show me the RESEARCH. Who did it - what did they do, who did they talk to?
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Disk - Somewhere along the line you think that the Fair Tax is an add-on to our current system. The "fact sites" you have researched have obviously poisoned your mind or your JOB depends on our current system.
You just don't understand how it truly works. Under the fair tax, if we all pay for the same price for milk with pre-tax dollars and we all get a pre-bate, then there is no WINDFALL for anyone.
That is the point. The fair tax makes it fair!
twtheisen 4 years ago
Please do the math, you seem to not get it--
yes, we all get a prebate, but, if revenue is neutral, in the case of the middle class the prebate doesn't offset the inclusive sales taxes and wage reductions enough, making their effective tax rate more than it is now. THIS IS FROM SUPPORTERS NUMBERS, if you refuse to go look, that is your problem.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
And it is a "Pimp Windfall"-- but you refuse to look at the math, so I will wait until you show me what you think is incorrect in the math I have posted before trying to explain it to you again.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Disk - Thanks for stating it exactly as I did and finally admitting that employer costs go down based on my soc. sec. example.
My employer does not save my 6.2%, because it is part of my salary that is withheld. He pays it to me, but it is withheld for the tax. Under Fair Tax, he still pays it to me, but it is not withheld. Hence, I keep it!!!
twtheisen 4 years ago
Sigghs again.
IF he gives it to you, it is a cost.
Supporters OWN NUMBERS assume he DOESN'T give it to you-- that paqrt you want to keep is part of how they REDUCE COSTS OF GOODS 22-23% before adding the 23% inclusive sales tax.
So, if your employer only cuts costs 5-15% but has to add 23% as sales tax, guess what-- prices go up.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
By your explanation, pimps get a windfall with the fair tax, right!?
So, what do they get now? People work for a paycheck that has federal, soc. sec. and medicare withholdings while pimps work for CASH. We have pay-roll taxes, they don't. We pay with after-tax dollars, they don't.
We all pay the same prices at the grocery store genius, so tell me what you call our current system?
twtheisen 4 years ago
The point is NOT that it is okay for "pimps" not to pay now, the point is that NOT ONLY do they not pay more under the FT aka NaSTi, they get a prebate also, so they have a windfall.
Not only does the FT NOT solve the problem, it gives "pimps" free money, so they can consume more (your "free money" is assumed to be offset by lower wages--by FTers own numbers).
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Disk - what do you make??? what do you do for a living???
I go to the fair tax site, because they post their arguments as well as counter-arguments of opposers.
I can go read about how our government was behind 9/11 on a lot of sites, but that does not mean its true!!!
twtheisen 4 years ago
This video has had 1,821 views. This is not worth my time.
Anyone interested, please read my PARTS 1-9 first, then read Diskatopia's arguments. Then, go to the FAIRTAX website and see who is accurate.
Diskatopia still has not identified what he/she does for a living or how much he/she makes. Personally, I think there are ulterior motives. Either way, he/she is clearly not separating fact from fiction. Look at the arguments, do some homework and make an educated decision.
twtheisen 4 years ago
Sigghs...
I told you what my "motive" was-- I don't want to pay more in taxes, and the "Fair aka "NaSTi" tax will hammer the middle class (rough income range 30k-300k)... go back and reread my posts.
You are the one who cites one site as your source, let's see those numbers... and then perhaps YOU shold do the homework by reading the sites that explain why the FT is FAIL.
Please, do go to fairtaxdotorg, and show us the numbers which make you think the middle class wil not pay more.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
PS- if you can't admit that the FT would result ina windfall for "Pimps" and "drug dealers" then you obviously aren't even looking at the basic economic math and numbers, and are just stubbornly holding onto a cultish idea.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Wow, I just realized I made a mistake-- EVEN IF PRICES GO UP, the "Fair Tax" (aka National sales tax-inclusive, aka NaSTI) is a "Pimp Windfall" because of the prebate... the math:
Now: Milk $5, pimpproduct $50, pimp can buy 10 milks
Assume prices go up 25% under FT...
Milk $6.25, pimpproduct %62.50... Pimp can buy 10 milks
the pimps' prices are proportional to societal prices!
Then the pimp gets a prebate.. bingo, "Pimp Windfall"....
Diskatopia 4 years ago
TheYoungTurnks: This country ran just fine before the world wars without income tax. They didn't teach you that in a Federally funded school I know. So it's not Ridiculus, it's the way it used to and should be. Fair Tax is not logical, it would drive NEW home prices up 23~30% because of the increased tax on materials to build. If people saved with Fair tax, remember the govt prints money out of thin air deflating your savings. time for Ron Paul revolution!
AtlasEyes73 4 years ago
re Part 7) True-- and the "Fair" Tax, aka National Sales Tax aka "NaSTy" does nothing to fix this problem, and in fact shifts the burden more onto the middle class (back to my 30k-300k)... supporters OWN NUMBERS show this... see the BEacon HIll papers pages 36-37.
Do you see the sleight-of-hand they are doing on pg37 to make it seem "Fair"?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
re Part 6)That is true-- WE ALL PAY THE SAME PRICES.
But, for prices not to go WAY up, your employer has had to LOWER your wages to keep prices the same (this is from supporters own numbers), so if prices stay the same and your paycheck stays the same and pimps' income stays the same, what has changed?
The answer is: NOTHING.
This is the shell game of the "Fair" Tax... all it generally does is rename "embedded tax costs" as "inclusive sales tax"...
6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
re Part 5) I never said that was fair, I pointed out how the FT aka National Sales Tax does not solve this problem, unless prices rise (penalizing all of us), and in fact the pimps will receive prebate checks, so if prices stay the same or go down-- the FT GIVES PIMPS A WINDFALL: more bling for pimps, courtesy of the FT.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
re Part 4) You were so close, then you dropped the ball-- see your mistake in part 4?
You say that since the employer doesn't have to withhold that money and give it to the gov, then it is not an expense...
whether the employer gives it to the gov as withholding from your check or gives it to you under FT as wages, it is an expense.
See now?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
You clearly do not understand business.
Employers could not withhold a 6.2% soc. sec. tax that would not exist under fair tax. In addition, they certainly wouldn't match the 6.2% soc. sec. tax that would not exist.
Hence, their COSTS would go down and my money would not need to be forwarded to the government, therefore would stay in my paycheck!
twtheisen 4 years ago
Stop closing your mind and look at the math, please.
Let's JUST look at FICA--
Now: make $1000, employer removes $76.50, leaving you $923.50. Employer matches that $76.50, so his costs are $1076.50.
Under FT:
If employer gives you current wages, his costs are $1000. So he saves JUST THE MATCHING FICA, NOT the amount you currently pay from your check.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
FTers numbers (fairtaxdotorg) assume your employer lowers your wages-- MOST (15-20%) of the 23% in COSTS savings come from that assumption to keep prices from rising under the FT.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
re Part 3) You are getting close to seeing it-- now, ask yourself, IF those taxes where replaced by the "Fair" Tax, if your employer gives that $11,629.20 to you in your paycheck, is that an expense for your employer?
IF it is an expense, it is a cost of goods/services sold, right?
Get it now?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
re Part 2) you are correct.. now ask yourself-- what constitutes "embedded tax costs"?
Diskatopia 4 years ago
re part 1) I say 30k-300k because that is the income range that would be hammered by an National Sales Tax. Thus my motive is I dmn well don't want pay a higher effective tax rate while BIll Gates and Paris Hilton pay less.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Sorry twtheisen, but you are still falling for the "keep your whole paycheck" wordplay. Perhaps the easiest way to explain it to you IS the exaple of the self-employed businessperson.
1)Sam owns a business. Let's say he sells widgets he makes for $1.00.
2)Same has pre-overhead of
Let'
Diskatopia 4 years ago
(curses enter key)
Forget the long explanation, the previous explanations should suffice if you will read them and think them through-- and if you won't, tell me where the 23% that businesses will cut there costs will come from, with supporting numbers (here's a tip-- most of that comes from lowering employees wages to at or near their current takehome).
Diskatopia 4 years ago
PART 1 -- First, claiming you make between $30 -- $200 k per year is extremely vague! Second, please do not reply to and separate my comments. Rather, comment in the general forum.
I am an outside sales rep. for a distribution company and have made between $65-75 k per year the last two years. We sell products for manufacturers (Corporations). I am 27 years old. I am married and have a wife and six month old child. Currently, I have established an S-Corp. and am starting my own company.
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 2 -- Second, the embedded taxes Fair Tax advocates speak about are COSTS that corporations/bus. owners pass along to consumers through their products. Every corp./business has a specific profit platform or margin % that they utilize. Any time their COSTS (taxes, employee costs, raw materials, fuel, etc.) go up, they simply implement a price increase and pass these costs along to consumers and/or layoff employees to help offset these increases in cost that lower profit. Sound familiar?
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 3 -- That is why the current tax system is constantly ridiculed. The rich stay rich because they pass along the rising costs to consumers! My numbers on 2007 taxes paid:
- Federal Withholding - $7,026.00
- Soc. Sec. Employee - $3,730.70
- Medicare Employee - $872.50
- TOTAL = $11,629.20 dollars
Third, employers pay taxes on behalf of their employees. Example: employees pay 6.2% to social security and their employers match that with 6.2% to equal 12.4% total.
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 4 -- Under the fair tax, my employer would not have had to pay taxes on my behalf or withhold these taxes. They COULD NOT and WOULD NOT withhold these taxes if they did not exist and would have no way to justify withholding them.
Therefore, employer costs would go down and I would keep this money, which would go towards the 23% national sales tax (Fair Tax) when I decide to consume the specified goods/services which are applicable.
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 5 -- Current tax system, if a drug dealer, an illegal immigrant and an honest/legal employee walk into a store; they will all pay the same $3.19 price for their fat-free skim milk (same price = same costs/embedded taxes paid by all). The difference is the honest American employee has Federal, Soc. Sec. and Medicare taxes withheld from their paycheck and uses AFTER-TAX dollars while the others DO NOT pay these taxes as they usually work/sell for CASH!
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 6 -- Fair Tax system, if a drug dealer, an illegal immigrant and an honest/legal employee walk into a store; they will all pay the same $2.80 price for their fat-free skim milk, but would ALL incur a 23% national sales tax at the register. There is no difference as they all would be paying with PRE-TAX dollars. Sound fair?
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 7 -- Current tax system, lower and middle class citizens who do not own businesses do not have the same tax advantages that corps./business owners have and therefore pay more in taxes.
Warren Buffet admits that he pays very little into the system, because he can utilize the 66,000 pages of current tax code to write off most of his lifestyle.
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 8 -- Fair tax system, everyone can apply through the Social Security Admin. for their monthly pre-bate to cover necessities of life up to the poverty level (numbers formulated by Dept. of Health/Human Services). My current family status would allow me to get $458.00 dollars every month ($5,496 annually) by check, smart card or electronic funds transfer to offset my basic necessities of life. Sound fair?
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 9 -- Fair tax system, anyone under the poverty level is un-taxed through the pre-bate! All citizens would get to decide how much they pay in based on their consumption of 23% fair tax applicable goods/services.
Anyone can live abroad or buy used to avoid the fair tax as much as possible, but it is no different than them hiding their money in offshore accounts and writing off foreign homes and travel because they have a "business office" in that home.
twtheisen 4 years ago
PART 10 -- Lastly, our 12 million illegal's currently avoiding PAYROLL TAXES would have to have a valid SSN and be legal in order to be eligible for the monthly pre-bate. In addition, through taxed consumption of applicable goods/services, they would pay for the services that they currently get covered for FREE compliments of the American taxpayer.
There are so many other things (trade, imports/exports, etc.) as well. Please, check out - FAIRTAX dot O R G - for the facts!
twtheisen 4 years ago
No, they wouldn't, not if prices stay the same or go down-- again, that is the wordplay "Fair" tax fans love to play, first claiming we all pay "embedded taxes" and then just renaming those as an "inclusive sales tax"...
Think it through again--
If an illegal pays $5.00 for milk now and $5.00 for milk under an NST-- how much more is he paying?
The answer is $0... all supporter are doing in this scenario (prices stay the same) is renaming the 23%.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Diskatopia, What about Ron Paul's Plan? which is just get rid of the IRS and leave everything else the same...You would still Pay FICA and Social Insecurity...He explains it well and I believe it is plausible--better than the status quo of the gov't collecting some of your pay and give it to Big Business thru Corporate subsidies or spend it in a Foreign Policy disaster like the billions to Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, and most notably Israel...
aldobasset 4 years ago
LEGAL citizens DO, plus they pay the same price for their goods and services as these illegal/underground people do.
We do not have a fair system.
Let me guess, you work for H&R block???
twtheisen 4 years ago
Nope.
I make between 30k and 200k a year, and I don't want to pay more in taxes which I and most everyone in those income ranges would under an NST, while Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Paris Hilton would pay less.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
But now you are thinking.. legal citizens DO pay taxes plus the same prices... so now that we've shown that if prices stay the same illegals will pay no more, think through the other two possibilities-- prices go down, or prices go up.
Prices go down-- illegals pay less for items, as do we.
Prices go up-- illegals pay more for items, as do we.
Get it now? Under a Sales Tax, you cannot separate out any group, the price changes, nomatter which way, effect EVERYONE.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Correction: price changes here they effect everyone equally except those wealthy enough to buy/live overseas, if prices overseas are lower.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
So the next step is to say "wait a minute, if I don't pay FIT and FICA under an NST, and prices stay the same-- how is the government collecting the same revenue.
Here's the shell game being used by the financiers of the "Fair" Tax-- it is assumed your emplyer lowers your gross pay (basically an average across the board of 22-23%)-- so in effect you are bringing home the same amount or LESS and paying the same prices for goods.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
And this is how the middle class gets screwed-- they end up with the same or less paycheck and even with the "prebate" (as compared to current refunds), their effective tax rate is higher than now.
Basic math... from supporters' own numbers.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Sorry, I was incorrect it should read
"across the board 15-20%" because CIT and compliance costs are about 5-6% of the savings for employers and are not part of employees' gross wages.
Mea culpa.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
The income tax is unconstitutional. Our constitution had to be amended to enable it and it started out as a one page system. Now, it's 66,000 pages and the IRS employs more people than The FBI and Homeland Security combined.
Diskatopia - You don't understand that illegal/underground people do not get FEDERAL INCOME TAX, SOCIAL SECURITY TAX or MEDICARE TAX deducted from their earnings. They don't get STATE INCOME TAX deducted either.
twtheisen 4 years ago
Try again...
think it through:
If spending $1.00 now has 22-23c of embedded tax costs (SUPPORTERS OWN NUMBERS), and spending $1.00 under the NST has 22-23c of "inclusive sales tax"-- what is the difference to the pimp?
How much more is he paying for that $1.00 item? Answer: $0
So he's paying not 1 penny more for the same items, and he's getting a prebate.
If prices stay the same, this is a "Pimp Windfall"-- free money for pimps.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Under the current system, we all pay the same prices for goods, but pimps work for cash and pay with "pre-tax" cash and I work for a paycheck and pay with "post-payroll tax" cash
Now, you tell me how that is fair?
Under the Fair Tax, we all pay the same prices for goods, but we all pay with "pre-tax" cash, which is fair to everyone as it forces everyone to pay in!!!
twtheisen 4 years ago
I never said it was fair... I showed that pimps will in fact not pay more under and NST if prices go down or stay the same, and in fact they will have a windfall of free governement money (prebate).
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Under the Fair Tax, I would not have to be without approximately $14,000 dollars of my own money every year and then have to pay someone a fee to help me get some back through wasteless tax returns and the hassles they include.
I don't want to be punished for earning more money, I want to be able to decide for myself how much the government gets based on my consumption. the pre-bate monthly will cover my necessities and everything else is on me.
I think that is FAIR!!!
twtheisen 4 years ago
No under SUPPORTERS OWN NUMBERS you will be out that 14000-- they assume your employer will keep that amount, as IT IS PART OF THE EMBEDDED TAX COSTS. IF employers don'yt keep that amount, prices go up.
That is the confusion many supporters are having-- whether employers pay the FIT FICA amounts to the gov or give it to the employee-- it is still a business cost if they don't keep it.
DO the math.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
A "National Sales Tax" would put the burden only on people who like to consume beyond their means.
Rich people would pay more, because they buy more luxurious and expensive things. They couldn't write off as a business expense under the Fair Tax, they would pay tax on it.
Right now, you do not control how much the government takes from you; they do. Under the fair tax, you decide every time you buy something.
twtheisen 4 years ago
How much national sales tax would Bill Gates pay on the following:
1)New yacht bought overseas and brought to the USA.
2)New yacht bought overseas and not brought to the USA.
3)"Used" yacht bought overseas and brought to the USA.
4)"Used" Yacht bought overseas and not brought to USA.
5)A castle in Germany.
6)A "used" mansion in Beverly Hills.
This brings a whole new batch of loopholes for the wealthy and corporations to not pay taxes on that overseas money.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Continuing, some of America's richest would bring their money back into the country since they wouldn't need to hide it anymore.
Every single one of the 12 million illegals would have to start paying taxes.
If YOU consume, you pay tax. You can apply for the pre-bate, but that will only cover costs up to poverty level. They aren't going to cross the border to buy their groceries and goods and services!
twtheisen 4 years ago
For illegals to pay (more) taxes under a national sales tax, prices would have to go up.
All supporters are doing is renaming "embedded tax costs" as "inclsuive sales tax".
Again-- if illegal pays $5 for something now and $5 under an NST, how is he paying more?
AND, if you assume prices go up-- they go up for all of us, not just the illegals.
The Natonal Sales Tax is a Very Bad Idea.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Diskatopia
If you read a little more, you would know that they are offering different options to receive pre-bate monthly. Check, smart card (debit card) and electronic funds transfer. You would not have to send out checks to everyone.
Next, no-one engaging in illegal activity files a tax return. But, they do file for and get various aid. Last time I checked, prostitutes don't have health insurance coverage.
twtheisen 4 years ago
You still don't understand-- it doesn't matter if illegal folks are filing now-- SUPPORTERS of the fair tax claim that there are "embedded tax costs" in everything we buy. "Pimps" aleady pay this. If prices stay the same, all you are doing is renaming the "embedded tax costs" as "inclusive sales tax". Think it through, you will see it.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
1)Thee varous card companies charge fees all along the transfer path, so unless the gov pays this, the person paying the prebate wil have to pay it out of the prebate.
2) Even if you don't send checks to everyone, you are sending 100s of millions of checks a year... and doing all the record keeping and electronic number crunching... and you think this can be done for LESS THAN $1 year/citizen (thus less than $4.00 a year per family of 4)...clearly not possible in the real world.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Correction should be "the person recieving the prebate will have to pay it out of the prebate"
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Correction:"receiving"
Diskatopia 4 years ago
The "Fair" Tax (aka National Sales Tax aka "NaSTy" tax) is a Very Bad Idea that would shift the tax burden onto the middle classes, just as stated in the video.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
watch?v=UAyY_8hDdfY
fair tax is basically what they have in canada.
oldhacks blogspot com
learn some basic economics cenk
oldhacks 4 years ago
Read the Fair Tax book to get more information on this topic! Rich people and businesses do not pay their fair share (Read Rich Dad, Poor Dad) I know it seems like paying more when you have a 20% sales Tax but rigt now the sales Tax is about 6-8%. Therefore, you only would pay the difference and have your whole paycheck to buy more...
aldobasset 4 years ago
You didn't read the book carefully-- by "whole paycheck" they mean THE SAME AMOUNT YOU TAKE HOME NOW. They assume that employers will LOWER WAGES by the amounts they currently send to the gov in FIT and FICA-- because THOSE PAYMENTS are a major %age of the "Embedded Tax Costs"....
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Obviously you Young Turks don't come from a family with money or you do not understand what it is like having a father who worked his butt off his whole life for his family paid taxes all through his life, then dies, wants to pass his wealth to his children and grandchildren, but instead the government double dips taking a million from his 2 million estate!!!! Hence why people who make money end up opening accounts off shore! Man get educated!
orling1 4 years ago
Also... with the FAIR TAX we can get Tax money from the drug dealers, prostitutes, criminals & illegals; this group which end up having tax payers pay for special programs like food stamps, housing and grants for free education. PLEASE!
orling1 4 years ago
with the FAIR TAX we can get Tax money from the drug dealers, prostitutes, criminals & illegals"
This is not true... if prices don't go up, pimps and drug dealers don't pay any more (it is just renaming alleged "embedded" tax costs as "inclusive"sales tax)... in FACT they would receive prebates... this is a "Pimp" Windfall Tax.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
you need to get educated before rant on HUCKABEE'S TAX PLAN! You do not even know what it is called. "ummm aaa sales tax" Try FAIR TAX! Obviously you are not like myself a "business owner" & understand that we are OVER TAXED! Dude read the constitution GET YOUR FACTS before you rant TO PEOPLE ON TV. Are you trying to dumb down THE USA! Communist
orling1 4 years ago
The National Sales Tax (marketing-ploy name "Fair" Tax) is a Very Bad Idea... and IF you make between about $30k and $300k now, your assertion that you are overtaxed now shows that you haven't looked at the "Fair" supporters' own numbers-- under an NST those making 30-300k will pay MORE to keep it "revenue neutral"....
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Diskatopia, OK I will research this more.. fair enough
orling1 4 years ago
getting rid of the irs, replacing it with nothing and removing a ton of government programs doesnt make sense? go research it you bish
Ithaxa 4 years ago 2
Oh, I guess Hilary's Ten Planks of Communism is better suited for this country. Or perhaps we should have a Muslim in the White House, yeah? Bet you'd looove that.
samyisong 4 years ago
Religion is about taxes?
Jesus, read the Bible, will you? Jesus said "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's."
Wendy62 4 years ago
god all this endless crap-slinging on simple issues, it makes me want to have nothing to do with politics
TheOKAY 4 years ago 3
What a foolish talk this man is doing on TV? Most senseless fellow I have ever seen on TV
tspeaks12 4 years ago
how can u call him foolish! if ur american, ud know that the government is ripping off americans even those working outside the country to pay for itself. for a candidate to say that they wanna get rid of tax is not only ridiculous but plain stupid, and to get rid of the irs, common.
dont take it out on a presenter,the guy is tellin u facts
lixueryo 4 years ago
With FAIR TAX we can get Tax money from the rich that shelter their money in off shore accounts, the drug dealers, prostitutes, criminals & illegals; this lower group which end up having tax payers pay for special programs like food stamps, housing and grants for free education. Then PLEASE!
orling1 4 years ago
^ And when taxes on those things are raised, and the majority of consumers (the middle class) can't afford them anymore, what do you think happens to the businesses that sell them? Their only markets would be in wealthy neighborhoods. They'd move out, taking those goods and all those jobs with them.
No jobs? Unemployment rises. Crime rises. Poverty rises.
Yeah, this Sales Tax idea sounds like just the thing we need.
XantherNight 4 years ago 4
So that means you raise the tax on "non-daily" goods, like automobiles, electronics and appliances...things lower-income and middle-income families to depend on to survive?
Yeah, raise the taxes on the refrigerator the poor families need to keep their food fresh and edible. Raise the taxes on the car that family needs to get to work and school. They really have the money to be spending more on those necessities.
Idiot.
XantherNight 4 years ago
the young turds.
what are you, a liberal? you seem to like taxes.
dumbshit, there is something called a prebate to the fair tax, where daily goods and necessities are not taxed.
buckwilliee 4 years ago
Watch the entire show at theyoungturks(.)com
TheYoungTurks 4 years ago
lol..he guy is funny.
but Ron Paul has got it right..this guy should stick to making fun of the politcians rather than talk economics.
haroon420 4 years ago
He's saying that a sales tax (which hits people equally) compared to a progressive tax, where richer people pay more, is going to favour the rich and disfavour the less affluent, this is not a matter of opinion, it's an obvious fact.
The matter of opinion is whether a progressive tax system is more fair. You can debate that all you want, but the a flat tax favouring the high income bracket is a fact, not an opinion.
ankprat 4 years ago 3
What about developed countries that have flat taxes? I am no rich, but I am not poor either. Everyone should pay the same, rich or poor, there's nothing wrong with that! Live on less than what you make...
aldobasset 4 years ago
"What about developed countries that have flat taxes?"
Such as? I can't think of any apart from maybe Monaco.
themadhair 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What you just said is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. No where in your incoherent rambling did anything make sense or was a rational thought, we are all dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
You've put little thought into your little brain on this matter.
BMCJJ 4 years ago
You're responding to the Huckster I see.. I used that quote not so long ago it's a pretty good one :)
jpbalkenende 4 years ago
This guy knows nothing!!! Please read fairTax plan so you do not look like a big dumbie.
onehawtmama 4 years ago
Explain point by point why he's wrong. The money's gotta come from somewhere. If it's not coming from the Rich anymore it has to come from the poor and the middle class. Who don't have much money to begin with.
jpbalkenende 4 years ago
The income tax goes to pay interest on our debt...
It is not used to "run the country."
UnhealthySalad 4 years ago
Well, after years of Bush's overspending, you have to pay that interest somehow. Either way, I don't believe the income tax is earmarked for interest payments.
ankprat 4 years ago 2
Air America is using temps from Manpower now?
metalpsalm 4 years ago
You got it all wrong Cenk, eliminate the federal reserve, and you save enough money to ablish the income tax..
RON PAUL!
MopacMurtaza 4 years ago
ummm, this guy is full of shit. I only had to watch for 4 seconds to figure that out.
yubsoshort 4 years ago
WOW!!! Who is the reporter...The young turk, AWFUL!!!!!!!
xxbdlxx18 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
By the way...as a scientist...
evolution is pretty absurd.
Although I doubt you ever studied anything?
PoinSpirit 4 years ago
yeah your scientist of bullcrap.
zappydaman 4 years ago 8
Dude, your not a scientist and everyone here knows it. If you where you'd know that there are mountains of evidence to support evolutionary theory.
Matty2Tone 4 years ago 6
Scientist? Science of Bullshit maybe.
Randomambusher 4 years ago 4
I don't expect you to understand Fair tax.
BUt, you may if you study.
barnabaspark 4 years ago
The social security admin. would issue pre-bates monthly based on poverty level stats from the dept. of health/human services to every family that simply asks to receive them.
The stores where goods were purchased would collect the national sales tax and it would be forwarded just like state taxes are handled.
It will cost us $250 million annually to send out pre-bate checks. It costs us $250 billion annually in tax dollars to run the IRS, just so they can take our money.
twtheisen 4 years ago
How do you propose accurately sending out over 500 million checks a year (and probably well over that, probably over a billion) at a cost of less than 40-50 cents a check?
And according to supporters own numbers, the IRS doesn't cost anywhere near 250billion... that is roughly the TOTAL societal cost of the current tax system, not just the IRS cost.
The Nationa Sales Tax is a Very Bad Idea.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
Everybody gets the prebate....
Who the hell are you?
PoinSpirit 4 years ago
Seriously, fair tax won't work. Everyone would understate how much they make, there would be a larger black market, and then the government would get revenue shortfalls. Secondly, think about baby boomers and retirees, they'll be paying double taxes, once when they made their money, and now again when they're consuming. How is this "fair"
willspeagle 4 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
cenk you smelly asshole, study your fuckin economics.
CheeezMaster 4 years ago
There's plenty of information about the Fair Tax, you might want to read it. There are books, web sites. It had over 60 co-sponsors in the house last year.
Are you too lazy or is it that you can't read? Either way, you've got big problems with the current tax system because it requires LOTS of work and LOTS of reading. Even the IRS isn't sure what it says because of its complexity.
decay1861 4 years ago
And the abortion ban had over a hundred fifty co-sponsors. Co-sponsors do not lend sanity to a bill.
Randomambusher 4 years ago 3
Yeah, Sales taxes are completely regressive. Just hitting the middle and poor classes super hard.
DblOSmith 4 years ago 5
As a math nerd I feel an urge to argue semantics. It's not regressive, it's flat, whereas the income tax is progressive. However, since propensity to spend lower the richer you are (just like Cenk says), the poorer you are the harder it will hit you.
ankprat 4 years ago 2
Yep.. Actually it would still be a progressive system with the rebates and all... That said it's a completely stupid idea and should only be appealing to you if you're in the richest 90 percentile and an utter greedy dipshit :)
jpbalkenende 4 years ago 2
It IS regressive in the classic economic sense with respect to taxes -- it is regressive across income, it is only "flat" across expenditures, which is the proponents shifty way of trying to pretend it is "Fair" when in fact is is "NaSTy"(counter marketing name for the National sales tax :) )
A National Sales Tax is a Very Bad Idea.
Diskatopia 4 years ago
tru that, the "Fair" Tax is a horrrrrible idea
elshizzo 4 years a