I wanna see mayweather fight donaire. But he won't! Donaire is a combo of pacquiao and mayweather. Basically pacquiao with mayweather's slickness. Hey Vic! Even that left hurt me watching! You got knocked out!
HAHAHAH.. bring that armenian power shit some where else.. you fuckers aint shit IN LOS ANGELES EITHER>. LMFAO.. you weren't hurt VIC? you fucking dumb fuck!
I don't think he knew what being hurt felt like til then lol. Vic has some balls though. How often do you see a guy get KOed and then square up and challenge his opponent after lol
yap floyd could be a legend....if he did not fear pacquiao..demanding random drugtest and $100m dollars says that he feared pacquaio....60/40 means he feared pacquaio...
Vic... you should learn to loose... mostly now that you're gettin pretty good at loosin dude.
You were not hurt??? Shit... then why did we all see you drop to the canvas like a thurd on the toilet and stumbling towards the ropes at the end of the count?? Where you chicken-dancing mothafucka or what???
Vic Darchinyan was not hurt! He only felt like doing the "Stuff me like a Thanksgiving Turkey Dance combo with the Ostrich Face Plant"! Vic Darchinyan could be the next MTV sensation replacing the "Teach me how to dougie" with his patented move "Stuff me like a Turkey"! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I don't mean to be bogus, winning a world title is an amazing accomplishment. It think Holyfield should have won the fight with Valuev though. And Wladimir beat Chagaev, who should have been WBA champion all along. Not to mention Valuev had been running from the Klitsckho's longer than Haye.
Not to be a dick, but Haye was diffenitly a paper champion.
Vic: "I was not hurt with the punch"...."I made a magnificent combination move of a turkey waiting to be stuffed combined with an ostrich planting its head underground!"
Vic: "Do you think you respect me after you knock the hell out of me?! huh?! It's ok im fine I dun feel hurt..." Bwahahah!! what a trash talkin Armenian Aussy! After punched n knocked out by a left hook?! duhh..?! LOL
@rollopoloboy Yes, but he had stopped promoting Donaire. If Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, who do you think Arum will be rooting for? (He promoted both)
HAHAHAA..., WHY DID YOU ASK HIM SOME QUESTIONS LIKE THAT ABSOLUTELY HE IS A BIT DIZZY STILL HE DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING YET. JUST LIKE WAKING UP A SLEEPLESS MAN. HAHAHAHH
No way Floyd will lose to Pacman. Too slick, too much ring savvy, too defensively sound, too accurate with his punches and the best fighter Pacman will ever face. Pacman looks a million dollars facing washed up fighters like Hatton, slow mo predictable fighters like Margarito or past their sell by date fighters like Mosley and weight drained like Oscar but Marquez has shown again that a fighter with ring intelligence and movement causes him problems. What would Floyd do to Pacman and he is fresh
@Adjuah38 Don't be so sure. Marquez is able to read Pacman like a book. His anticipation, not just his ability, are what give Pacquio so much trouble. It really comes down to two things - is Floyd's defense tight enough that he isn't going to get hit cleanly by a guy who's hit everyone he's tried to hit? And is Floyd's jab good enough to control the tempo of the fight? Floyd likes to fight at his pace, and Pacquio will force the tempo unless Floyd can prevent that with his jab. We'll know soon
Vic didn't want to do this fight and Nonito was hungry for a major title. Now Vic is hungry for Donaire and Nonito is to busy taking pictures. Vic could possibly win a rematch.
Nonito's "respect" is just bullshit for the camera. After the fight, he was calling Vic his bitch and a sour old man. At least Vic can say it like it is. Stupid monkey asian wannabe fillipoono faggots.
look how such an asshole Vic Darchinyan is. Donaire expressed respect to him but he answers back by questioning Donaire's sense of respect to him instead of saying thank you and congratulating him as an act of sportsmanship.
I was not hurt... I don't know what hurt means?(someone whispers to him) Ahh. Is that it? coming out of the ring on a stretcher? that's hurt? Ah yah.. I was hurt..-VIC
jajaja, i was not hurt? pendejo, si cayo como un costal de papas el imbecil Vic, que acepte su derrota, Nonito, master en el contraataque le dio una leccion a este pendejo, excelente pelea de Nonito
@acousticLU No need to trash talk. A true fighter is humble, & let's his fist do the talking. But also respects, & honors his opponent. Action speaks louder than words. :)
@RobertLei NoNoito was just smiling for the camera. Donaire was calling Vic his bitch and saying he's a sour old man after the fight. Donaire's all talk and photo shoots.
@acousticLU NoNoito was just smiling for the camera. Donaire was calling Vic his bitch and saying he's a sour old man after the fight. Donaire's a pussy.
@MADMAC572 Yeah, and UNDER cause he's fighting all these smaller guys. Narvaes wasn't even a bantamweight. I'd like to see Nonito fight someone serious like Gamboa or an improved Darchinyan.
@crowley0312 Donaire is young and growing. He started at 112 pounds as a pro. He's been fighting guys in his own weight class. If you rag on Donaire then you have to rag on guys like Rios, who is hUGE at lightweight. Darchinyan is already fighting at a weight where he has real tough competetion at 118. He was great at 112. But at 118 he doesn't hit that hard anymore. Still very competetive, but not good enough to compete with Donaire.
@MADMAC572 Did you see Vic fight Perez? Or what about Mares? 1st round beating. 2nd round knockdown. 3rd round Abner's face looked like it was on it's period. Course, Mares won because he never missed an opportunity to give a low blow or punch during a hug, but the point is Vic can still hit hard. I'm still waiting for Nonito to fight Gamboa and rematch Vic. If he wins both, I'll admit he's the best Bantamweight.
@crowley0312 Vic is a credible fighter at 118 and still a good puncher. He's just not the davastating freight train that he was at 112. The Mares fight was close, but I thought Vic actually won it. Donaire is leaving 118 - he can't make the weight anymore. So Vic will have to meet him at 122. Gamboa can't get down to 122, let alone 118. Once Donaire goes to 125, that will be it, he won't come back. So I don't see them fighting again. Vic needs to fight Agbeko (who I think will beat Mares).
@MADMAC572 Mares is just lucky he's Golden Boy's new boy. It's debatable he and Vic had a draw, but Mares didn't win. I bet Promotions handpicked judges and hired a ref to ignore his low-blows. I'd rather see Vic KO Mares than Agbeko, but either one is fine. Mares would be bigger though. As for Donaire, Vic is also moving up to Super Bantamweight next year (and 125 later). A rematch is still possible.
@crowley0312 Mares has had his share of luck, but he's a sound fighter and can match Vic on pretty equal terms. Frankly, with Donaire leaving, I think Agbeko is the best fighter in the division and I think he'd beat Vic. But between Vic, Mares and Agbeko, there isn't much separating them. All three are roughly on equal terms. As for Vic moving to 122, he can certainly compete there, but he's not particularly heavy handed at 118, he's likely to be less so at 122. In any case, Donaire is better.
@MADMAC572 If Mares didn't throw 7-10 punches during a hug and three low blows every round, he wouldn't be on top. Anyways, I heard Abner say he's moving up to 122 after the Agbeko fight. Sucks how Agbeko gets a rematch at 118 and Vic doesn't, Mares did the same thing to him. Still hope Vic fights the winner, he's realized his mistakes in the first fights. As for Donaire, I want to see him fight Nishioka at 122. Nonitos had some easy fights lately, this will decide if he deserves to be #4 p4p.
@crowley0312 You can "what if" all day long, but the fact is that was a close fight and Vic certainly wasn't (and isn't going to) dominating that fight. Mares is a guy who's going to give Vic trouble. The Agbeko fight was MUCH more eggregious with many more low blows than the Darchinyan fight. Agbeko deserves a rematch. And I also think Agbeko is a better fighter than Vic. But I'd like to know for sure, rather than suspect. And the only way to know is if they fight.
@crowley0312 And I agree - Nishioka is a logical opponent for Donaire. But Donaire dominated all five rounds of their fight until Vic was knocked out. So I have no doubt that would happen again. Donaire is faster, he's a better defensive fighter, and he hits harder than Vic. He also has superior foot speed. And he's bigger to boot. He can't make 118 anymore, a weight Vic makes comfortably.
@MADMAC572 Vic has improve a lot more since their first fight. If Vic and Nonito fight again, I predict it will be like Pacquiao v. Marquez lll. An offensive fighting, photo shoot star outclassed by the aging and hungry defensive genius. And Donaire already moved up to 122. I can't believe Boxrec already has him #1 there. He should at least fight someone on 122 first. As for Vic, I hope he beats Yamanaka or Agbeko after the Mares fight and moves up to 122 asap. Then rematch Mares and/or Donaire.
@crowley0312 Vic has improved, but Donaire is improving too. The bottom line is he's bigger, he's faster, his defense is tighter, his footwork is better. If they fight ten times, I think Donaire knocks him out ten times. If Vic can stay at 118, he should. There's good money fights to be had there. A rematch with Mares, Agbeko, Montiel...
@MADMAC572 So they both improved. I don't think Vic took Nonito seriously the first time; he was a nobody who already lost and his brother Glenn was terrible. Nonito's also had some pretty easy fights against smaller people lately (Narvaez wasn't even 118). Tommy Morrison looked good fighting averages, but got KO against top fighters. You can look good beating a punching bag, but a prize fighter can make you look like a bum. I want to see how Nonito does against Nishioka.
@crowley0312 Vic can't beat him man. I don't care what he does, Donaire is better in every phase of the game. Donaire dominated every round of their last fight. And look at what he did to the very good Montiel. Yes, I agree Nishioka is a new challenge. He's a good fighter. My money is on Donaire, since I think Nishioka's best days are already behind him. The guy is 35 years old and while he's been pretty sharp, his level of opposition has only been decent.
@MADMAC572 Again, Vic probably didn't take Nonito seriously last time. Donaire was also hungry at the time. He hasn't been hungry since. But now Vic is. That will affect the fight. Nonito was much more serious than anyone Montiel ever faced. Although this is probably Nonito's biggest win. Do you agree he's overrated? He's good, but 4th in the world? I promise you, he's wouldn't be this popular if he wasn't following up on Manny. But I do think Donaire probably will likely beat Nishioka.
Respond to this video... First of all, he wasn't in the division that long. The ONLY weak fighter he fought at 118 was Narvaez. Secondly, he's only 29, and only in the last couple of years has he become a big name. Talk to me when he's 35 about his quality of opposition. So sure, Vic has done as much, but he's had a lot more time to do it. And when they met head to head, Nonito dominated him. And he will again if they fight again.
@MADMAC572 Montiel and Vic are his two big fights. After a big win, he takes easy matches to look good. Look at Vargas; he just stood there. Vic hasn't had much longer, he debuted at 24. Vics had 11 years and Nonito 10. Like Froch and Martinez, a late starter. I don't know why he waited so long though, those guys just started and Vic had been boxing since he was 8. Anyways, look at both Jones and Hopkins fights. Time is (usually) nicer for the defensive fighter.
@MADMAC572 Vic won't stay at 118. His goal is to become a 5 or 6-division champion. He's more interested in a legacy than money. And like I said, Mares is also moving up. Everyone is. 118 will be mostly Agbeko and Arce now. Vic knows he needs to fight Donaire again. Whenever someone brings up Darchinyan, someone else brings up how he lost to Donaire. Vic needs to settle this if he wants the respect he deserves (He's done as much as Donaire, who's major claim to fame is "The Next Pacquiao").
@crowley0312 If Vic fights Donaire again, he'll lose again. Donaire is a naturally bigger, stronger, faster boxer and his defensive skills are superior as well. I like Vic, because he's fun to watch. He comes right at guys and he can punch. But Vic, like Nishioka, is 35. For the small guys that's really getting up there, because by the time you hit mid 30s your reflex speed is declining and at the lighter weights that's even more significant than the heavier weight classes.
@MADMAC572 They said Holyfield couldn't beat Tyson, Marquez couldn't beat Pacquiao, Ali couldn't beat Foreman, Vic couldn't beat Mijares, etc. Don't always go with the popular choice. You heard of Elie Seckback? He just posted an interview of Vic saying he wants to beat Donaire. And look at the comments; Vic won't get the respect he deserves until he wins. I like Vic for his unique style and desire to fight the best and fight often each year. Maybe he'll lose, but he's got to try.
@crowley0312 I like Vic too. Don't get me wrong. He's entertaining to watch. And he's still a real force at 118. But the comparison of Vic-Donaire isn't Holyfield - Tyson or Marquez - Pacquio. It's Foreman - Frazier. Donaire owned Vic every minute of every round in their first fight. The KO wasn't some lucky punch. Donaire just has too much of everything for Vic. That's the bottom line.
@MADMAC572 I saw the whole fight. Nonito wasn't winning as badley as everyone says. Two of the cards were tied. The hit percents weren't far off (28% and 33%) and Vic was landing a lot of good blows too. Still could have gone either way. I don't think the KO was lucky, I think the problem was Vic walked right into it. Vic's improved with defeat, I don't think he'd make that mistake again. Yes, Nonito's improved too; he will have the advantage. But he's not invincible, he can be beaten too.
@crowley0312 I saw the whole fight too. Donaire controlled the fight from beginning to end. I didn't gived Vic a single round on my card. He landed a few straight lefts, but basically Donaire was blocking almost everything and hitting Vic pretty much at will. The Vic was lunging is because he couldn't work his way in. Nonito's jab was preventing that. But when he lunged, he ate that short right hook every time. Short of a lucky punch, I don't think Vic can beat him.
@MADMAC572 I gave Donaire 1 and 3 and Vic 2 and 4. Again, Vic's underestimation of Nonito is obvious. He taunted him a lot in the first two rounds and didn't bother preparing defense. I think a lot of people need to watch the fight again and see how close it was. Vic knocked Nonito down at the first round's end. If they had the same length arms, Nonito would've lost more. This fight had little to give Vic and a lot to give Nonito. Vic didn't worry about his defense. Next time would be different.
@MADMAC572 In the first Darchinyan Mares fight, Vic said he'd go easy on the first couple rounds, then come all out. But he couldn't, he'd been hit in the balls a dozen times by that point. Vic said he realizes now he needs to go 100% from the start. And how does weighing 4 more pounds make a heavy-hitter worse? Vic accomplished more at 115, but showed he still had it at 118. Just had a lot of bad luck. Vic's proved a lot of people wrong so far, I believe he can do good at 122.
@crowley0312 It doesn't make the heavy hitter worse, but as most guys add weight, they don't tend to add power. So it's usually the same power hitting bigger guys with less effect. It's pretty normal for most (there are exceptions) guys as they move up in weight, they see a corresponding decrease in their ability to hurt opponents. Vic can compete at 122, but when you realize he's coming from 112... at some point he's going to hit the wall. My bet is 118 is where that point is for him.
@MADMAC572 I agree it doesn't add power, because it won't make a big difference. Nonito isn't the only one who can't make 118 anymore, Vic weighed the limit at the Moreno weigh-in. So, Vic will gain 4 pounds at the MOST. Not everyone hits the wall, Pacquiao debuted at 98 (7 pounds under smallest division) and now look at him. Mares hit Vic in the groin as much as Agbeko, Vic just didn't show pain. The fight was close and you can say Agbeko is better than Vic. But I say Vic is better than Abner.
@crowley0312 I don't think there's a lot seperating Vic and Mares. But vic is a lot more fun to watch as a fighter. I really like Agbeko, and at this point he's my favorite fighter in the division. As for hitting the wall, even Pacman has hit it. Is he going to fight Sergio Martinez? Hell no. Unless you make it to heavyweight, you always hit the wall weight wise. It's just a matter of where. I think with Vic it's about 118 and with Donaire about 130. Donaire is a naturally bigger guy.
@MADMAC572 Mares is good, but I still think his contract with Golden Boy is behind his luck. I agree with you on Manny. I figured out why Floyd's delaying their fight; Defensive fighters have longer careers than Offensive fighters. Pacquiao needs to fight Mayweather and maybe Khan and Bradley before it's to late. And of course he won't fight Martinez, he'd have to gain at least 10 pounds. Now, given Vic is a defensive fighter and hasen't shown serious decline, I'd give him 126, maybe 130.
@crowley0312 Ahhh Vic is definitely NOT a defensive fighter. He doesn't even have a very good defense. Vic is offensive all the way. Look at the position of his hands when he fights. It is true he hasn't been beat up a lot, because guys are too busy trying not to get hit to hit him much. But he's not a great defensive fighter and he's 35! 122 Maybe. Maybe. I don't think there's any way he can be expected to compete against guys lioke Gamboa and Russell at 126.
@MADMAC572 Hmm... He reminds me of a defensive fighter though, since he's a counter puncher and because he tricks people into making mistakes with his unusual style, then attacks. We can agree he's a slow-pace fighter, right? Speed is the first thing to go. Vic doesn't rely on it, Nonito does. And you're only as young as you feel. Look at Archie Moore. And there's Hopkins proving age can be overcome in modern boxing. Vitali is 40 and still unbreakable. Lewis and Wladimir got better with age.
@crowley0312 By the time Nonitos speed goes, Vic will have long since been retired. There are very, very few guys who remain at the top of their game past 35, and fewer still below 147. Vic's game is a touch more speed dependent than you think, since he's very open and relies on slipping and countering (and countering with heavy hands). He's face is wide open. When he can't slip anymore... When Nonito's speed declines, he will become a good fighter, but he won't be great anymore.
@MADMAC572 I'm kind of glad Vic lost because it allowed him to grow as a boxer. Let's look at what Vic has over Nonito: Power. Vic mostly held his ground from Nonito's punches until the end, but Vic's punches could send Nonito back a couple feet. Since styles make fights, I'm sure Vic would go into a rematch 110% more prepared for someone with longer reach. Would Nonito be as hungry as he was before? Hell no. Btw, Holyfield-Tyson was 1-25 for Holyfield. Anything can happen.
@crowley0312 In my view Vic has NOTHING over Nonito. Ninito hits harder, is faster, has superior footwark, better defense. He's better in everyt aspect of the sport. They fight again, Vic gets knocked out again. He can't beat Nonito.
@MADMAC572 I figured out a way Vic could beat Nonito. He needs to be like Calzaghe was against Hopkins: get inside him and don't give him a chance to think, keep up a fast pace. If Vic takes the fight inside, his smaller reach will work to his advantage. He should also put Nonito against a corner and land combos. He can beat Nonito.
@crowley0312 He can't get inside for two reasons. One, Nonito has better footwork and will change up the angles so Vic's attempts to get inside will be frustrated. Two, Nonito's jab will stop his forward movement every time. Nonito's jab is hard, it's not a range finder like some guys. I don't think Vic has even a small chance against Nonito, and that chance is getting less all the time as Nonito grows into a bigger weight class and Vic leaves a weight he can make comfortably.
@crowley0312 Moreno is a good fighter, and counter-punchers with quick hands are difficult for aggressive guys like Vic. Vic is highly competetive at 118, but he's just not dominant at that weight. He might still beat Mares if they have a rematch.
@MADMAC572 I am very sad about that fight. Moreno may have had the style advantage, but 4 of his title defenses were SD... against second rate fighters! If Vic did one last thing in his career, I wanted that to be being a 3 division major champion (he's only won 2 minor and 1 regional as a bantamweight). Now they're talking about a Mares Moreno fight.. If Mares wins, I hope he will not vacate his belts but defend them against Vic instead. He wanted to prove he could beat Agbeko fair and square,
@MADMAC572 (continued) now lets see if he can beat Vic fair and square. Sadly, months ago his team wasn't interested in rematching Vic. Still, Vic was calling Mares out at the last press conference. He even said he'd give Mares his purse (money won) if he can beat him again. I think if Vic keeps insulting him, Mares would look pretty bad if he didn't give Vic a shot.
@MADMAC572 And if Vic's still going to 122, I think he should fight Nishioka (he's also aging) or Ramos (only champion shorter than Vic). And for 126, Salido is the best choice.
@MADMAC572 Well, guess what? I just saw on The Ring website that Nonito might be fighting Wilfredo Vazquez Jr. for the vacant WBO 122 title in February. Varquez is coming off a loss to Jorge Arce. Now, is this really the fight the #4 fighter in the world should be picking? He should be fighting the 122 #1 fighter (Nishioka), not the #9. Nonito is good, but I hate how The Ring uses their rankings to help rising fighters (like Bradley and Khan). Do you agree Nonito shouldn't be the #4 p4p?
@crowley0312 I don't place much stock in P4P ratings. They are fairly subjective ratings. As for who he is fighting - fights are made based on a lot of factors, but it comes down to this: Risk vs gain. Everytime. And it should. A fighters manager / promoter should not be putting his man in a high risk fight without commensurate reward. Nishioka is probably a tough fight to make and to make money probably has to be done in Japan...
@MADMAC572 It's perfectly fine if Nonito wants to take the easy title fight. But if he wants to take easy fights, he shouldn't be #4. Do you honestly want to see Nonito fight Varquez? Easy win. Arum was talking about Nishioka for awhile. There is no more risk in that fight more than their was in the Montiel fight. Nishioka has also defended his title outside Japan before. But whatever. This way, Vic can challenge a 122 champion his age. Still disappointed in Nonito for going for the vacant belt.
@crowley0312 He's being evaluated on what he's done, not on what he's going to do. That's how fighters are rated. And he's coming off a succession of wins, including a huge win against the dangerous Montiel. He deserves to be rated high in the P4P rankings. To maintain that rating, he'll have to fight more quality opposition. Sadly, Gamboa is moving to 130, and I am not sure Donaire can compete at that weight. VERY few fighters go from 112 to 130 and retain their effectiveness.
@MADMAC572 No, I think Nonito is being evaluated a lot by what people think he'll do. "The Next Pacquiao" says as much. Montiel was clearly scared. You will never beat someone you're scared of. Again, look at Tommy Morrison. Looked good climbing the ranks, but got destroyed by prize fighters. Nonito is good, but maybe not as good as everyone thinks. I was hoping Gamboa would expose him. I will be convinced Donaire deserves #4 if he beats John or Lopez at 126.
@crowley0312 No fighter is rated in P4P ratings on potential. Ever. By anyone who actually does ratings. It doesn't work that way. Maybe "some people" do that, but not ring magazine sportswriters. Bottom line, Nonito has earned a high rating by beating good fighters in a convincing and winning titles in three weight classes. He deserves a high rating. Who would you rate ahead of him right now?
@MADMAC572 Perhaps not on unbiased ratings, but the Ring magazine has been known to use their ratings to overhype young fighters. It's mostly accurate though. Nonito's not the only one to win three different division titles and beat good fighters (So has Vic). People that should be above him: Pacquiao, Mayweather, Both Klitsckho's, Marquez, Bute, Martinez, Cotto, Ward, Froch, Dawson, Wonjongkam and Hopkins.
@crowley0312 As for Donaire's rating, he is a three division champion and most of his recent fights have been spectacular. He blew two highly respected fighters (Darchinyan and Montiel) right out of the ring. Darchinyan went from never having been down before to being destroyed with one punch. So yeah, Donaire is clearly a rising star with incredible speed, power and agility.
@MADMAC572 Montiel's face in the stare down reminded me of Patterson's when he fought Liston. No chance he was going to win. And I just realized I talked to you about Marciano and Liston and Vitali before, heh. I still don't think Marciano ducked Liston. Thanks to losing to a bum and his crime past, Liston didn't have a title shot considered until the second or third Patterson and Johansson fight. I think Vitali could beat him though. I wasn't one of those people who puts down the Klitschkos.
@MADMAC572 Vitali is a very underrated champion. The more I think about it, I'm not sure how any of the past greats could beat him. He's a great technician with brutal power. His brother and Lewis fought similar, but to beat them, you just need to fight inside and make use of their glass jaws. But Vitali has an iron jaw. Both his losses are bad luck. His style is boring, yet completly impenetrable. Unless they got a lucky injury, I can't see anyway anyone could KO Vitali.
@crowley0312 Yeah, Vitali is tough. Lennox beat him, and Lennox was a more complete fighter and just as big. But they fight ten times, I bet Vitali wins five. A big part of Vitalis success is his size and his ability to use it. He has, I think, the best jab ever. Very long, very fast, very hard. And as you said, he's got a good chin. I think Mike Tyson in his prime might have been a problem for Vitali IF he could slip past the jab. No way to know one way or the other.
@MADMAC572 I feel bad for Vitali, he was robbed in that fight. Vitali seems more complete to me and out of 10 fights, I think he'd average 7 wins. It was pretty cool how he won over the crowd. Lennox had no answers as soon as round 2 and only gave Vitali 8 days to train. He was going to lose. I just can't see how anyone can convincingly beat Vitali. Ali would be close because they both have the same reach, yet Vitali's taller. Sad he'll retire soon, but he's definitly left his mark.
@crowley0312 He wasn't robbed. He lost the fight on a terrible cut. It happens. Robbed means he should have won and the victory was somehow taken away. That's not what happened. And no, I don't think he beats Lennox 7 out of ten. Lennox was a more complete fighter and a better athlete.
@MADMAC572 Winning by a cut is a weak way to win. If Vitali continued, he'd be blind. Both of Vitali's losses could be argued as No decisions. ND's are usually avoided in title bouts. Also, Lennox used his age as an excuse. Well, Vitali's 2 years older than Lewis was than and still the same; he's clearly the better athlete. I'd have to rate Vitali higher on a p4p list. And yes, I think Vitali wins 6 or 7; more than Lewis. Vitali seems more complete a fighter to me. Why do you think Lennox is?
@crowley0312 Look, they fought, Vitali lost - that's the bottom line. No, I don't think Vitali is better than Lennox and no I don't think he wins more if they meet more often. But it's all speculation. And that counts for nothing. All that counts is what guys do. Why did Lennox retire? Because he had already been in a lot of tough fights and was ready to hang em up. He definitely was not "afraid" of Vitali. Only guys who don't fight think that boxers fear other boxers.
@MADMAC572 No issues with my Nonito rank? Anyway, Vitali LOST, but Lennox was LOSING. I have already given a good reason why Vitali is the better athlete, why do you think Lennox was more complete than Vitali? Also, did you hear Hopkins-Dawson was declared No Decision? Vitali-Byrd should be too. Lewis didn't fear the Klitsckho's, it was more that he feared losing. Make no mistake, Lennox was good. I just think Vitali's better. So far, he's the only HW Champion to never get knocked down, right?
@crowley0312 I don't know why you have a hard on for Nonito. He is definitely a top P4P fighter, he's active and he's beat named opponents in multiple weight classes. He's highly skilled and entertaining to watch. The P4P ratings obviously tend toward the subjective, but Nonito has had a very good last couple of years. The biggest problem for him is he's got nobody to fight that will make him real money now. Gamboa was the guy, and he left featherweight.
@MADMAC572 I told you, he has fights against punching bags much smaller than him. It's not entirely his fault, but he shouldn't be #4 in the world. That's insulting to the Klitschko's, Marquez, Cotto, Hopkins, Froch and Ward. The most over the top thing I've heard about him is that he should be #2 p4p and that he's like Pacquiao and Mayweather combined. Let's see him be like those two combined and exciting when he fights a prize fighter who doesn't fear him or underestimate him.
@crowley0312 Why would you think that Vitali - Byrd should be a no-decision? Klitschko retired on his stool because he was hurt during the fight. Do you know the rules of boxing? That's a loss. Hopkins was declared a no-decision because the cause of the injury was something illegal done by his opponent. That is not the case with Klitschko. The declaration of a no contest isn't something arbitray. There are rules governing the sport.
@crowley0312 And yes I agree Vitali has a better chin, but Lennox had better footspeed, a better right cross, a better uppercut and a better left hook. He's basically a better puncher than Vitali. Maybe "you just think" he's better, but again, you rate guys based on performance, not because "you just think" someone should be rated high.
@MADMAC572 When did I say "Just because I think"? I think Vitali's better because he has a stronger jaw, better defense and is a more skilled technician. Vitali moves around the ring better, like a machine. Lewis was all over the place.
@crowley0312 Also, don't look now but two up and coming guys are likely to give the Klitschkos are hard time... Mitchell and Helenius. Both of these guys are very big, very strong, very heavy hands. Helenius had a bad fight his last outing, but he remains a definite threat. Mitchell is very short on experience, but very long on athleticism, strength and toughness. I would not be surprised to see either of these two guys beat Vitali if he hangs around long enough to fight them.
@MADMAC572 That, along with the highest KO%, will get him a high place in history. Now, Mitchell seems a little hyped, right? I think he gets to much credit for being The Great American Hope and this is coming from an American. He's strong, but the Klitsckho's can dominate him with experience alone. So far he's KO'd a few tomato cans... What happens when he goes in the ring with a battle-worn veteran? I would love to see Vitali fight either one and/or Povetkin before he retires though.
@crowley0312 Mitchell looked really good blowing out a tough and experienced Ibragimov. He's a very gifted athlete - perhaps the best athlete in the heavyweight division. He's learning fast, and his reflexes are good. But Vitali is already talking retirement. Understandably, as he's getting old and tired. So he might retire before said fight could take place. But I agree Vitali is still a bridge too far for him today.
@MADMAC572 Ibragimov's best days are behind him. He was never that good anyway. Don't get the wrong idea on Vitali. He's not retiring because of age. According to his coach, "his political activity in Ukraine requires a lot of time and energy." He also says, "[Vitali has] never been so fit" and "[Vitali is still] getting better." Understandable, clearling out the top 10 contenders must get boring after awhile. Point is, he's not slowing down. And I still want to know how Lewis' more 'complete.'
@crowley0312 Vitali is 40. You ever box? That's old. He's had plenty of fights against hard hitting guys. His reflexes are slower now. He's smarter of course, which helps compensate. But 40 is old for ANY fighter (including Benard Hopkins). It all gets harder. Anyone who has done it knows this. So yes, I am sure that Vitali is not tired of making the money, but his body isn't going to allow him to do it forever. Nobodies does.
@MADMAC572 Yes, Vitali is old. What I meant was, the MAIN reason Vitali is retiring soon is because of his political career. Of course age plays a factor, but if that was the only reason Vitali had to retire, he could probably fight a couple more years. It all gets harder, but how hard is different for everyone. Vitali has proved, however, that he stands alongside Moore, Hopkins, Greb, Robinson and Langford in the Ageless group.
@MADMAC572 Mitchell's good, but he's got a long way to go and in a little time. I predict Helenius to succeed the Klitschko's. But not beat them, win the belts after they retire. Maybe he'll beat Wladimir a couple years from now. Like you said, look at the trouble Chisora gave him. Chisora will be Vitali's next opponent and I predict Vitali to dominate him.
@crowley0312 Chisora won't get past Vitalis jab. At this point in his career, I believe Vitali has the best jab of any heavyweight in history. He really knows how to use it. His other punches are good, but not great. But that jab, that's a great punch. That combined with his chin and dominant size make him a tough fight for any heavyweight out there. Chisora has a quirky style, but he's an absoutely pedestrian fighter. No way he beats Vitali.
@MADMAC572 I'd rather watch Vitali fight David "The Toebreaker" Haye than Chisora. Haye is a good example on what I think will trouble Mitchell. Stepping in the ring with an elite for the first time is just a whole new level. Odds are they've already fought and beat someone like you. Vitali's good; I still think him vs. Ali would be 50-50. Ali would likely have problems fighting someone with the same reach and taller than him. Hopefully beating Mitchell will get rid of the 'boring' critisism.
@crowley0312 Ali would have no chance against Vitali. None at all. He'd seldom get past that jab, and when he did, he wouldn't be able to hurt Vitali. He was not a big puncher. It would take a guy who was not only fast, but could hit. MAYBE a prime time Tyson would have been a problem, because Tyson slipped punches really well AND had heavy hands. But he'd have to get past the jab.
@crowley0312 Unless Mitchell is chinny, he'll walk right through Haye. Too big, too strong, and Haye has one weapon - that overhand right. Neutralize that and you'll beat him.
@MADMAC572 Mitchell? I meant I'd rather watch Vitali vs Haye than Vitali vs Chisora. Haye is quite possibly the worst Heavyweight champion of all time. I'd love to watch Vitali KO him and shut him up. After the fight, he might even say something like, "Yeah, um, the reason I couldn't fight my best out there was because I broke my jaw in training and had to get it replaced with break-away glass." Mitchell would probably beat Haye too. They might fight to decide who challenges Vitali.
@crowley0312 Haye won't do that. He'll want the payday that his name establishes. Vitali too. It's not about merit, it's about money. Haye is a much bigger payday than Mitchell for Vitali and Vitali is a much bigger payday for Haye than Mitchell. So none of those guys are fighting Mitchell soon.
@MADMAC572 Well, he'll probably have to fight someone before he gets a shot at Vitali. And I disagree on payday. Haye let a lot of people down in the Wladimir fight. He might even get the upset of the year award (Although I'm betting on that going to Khan). Haye talked all this thrash that he's going to rule Heavyweight, then lost nearly every round. Does anyone really want to see him fight again? There's a lot of demand for one of the brothers to fight Mitchell. That's the bigger pay-day.
@crowley0312 British fight fans will buy into the "broken toe" excuse one time. So yes, he can use that excuse and get British fight fans to watch him. German and Ukrainian fans will tune in to watch Vitali fight almost anyone. So yes, the Haye fight is worth more at this point. Down the road, as Mitchell continues to make a name for himself, that fight will be worth more. But I'm not sure Vitali will still be active then.
@MADMAC572 Britian lost their last champion last night. There's more money to be made in America now. Like you said, German and Ukrainian fans will always tune in to watch Vitali fight, so that works both ways. No one takes the Heavyweight division seriously because the Klitsckho's dominate everyone. Lots of Americans will tune in to see if they can get a Heavyweight title back. Diffenitly a lot of money to make off Mitchell. Haye will might need a return win, so Haye-Mitchell is also possible.
@crowley0312 Crowley, exactly because Froch lost last night, Haye's value goes up. The Brits will tune in. Secondly, negotiations for that fight are taking place now. Thirdly, if Vitali fought Mitchell, it would have to be in Germany. Vitali is never going to fight in the US again. His market is there, not here. Germany does not have pay per view. He does large stadiums and gate sales are where he's getting his money... So it definitely looks like Haye vs Klitschko.
@MADMAC572 I was thinking Ward (who by the way, I think is the next face of American boxing) winning made boxing more popular in America, whereas Froch losing took away some of UK's boxing popularity. Also, I've heard lots of people from the UK say they don't like Haye. Everybody hate's someone who thinks their cool because they talk thrash and can't back it up. Negotiations were being made, but Vitali's fighting Chisora now. Seeing as how Haye is supposed to be retired, I wonder how long he is
@crowley0312 As for Haye Mitchell. Haye doesn't take that fight. Not a big money fight. Americans don't know who Haye is. Mitchell eats him alive, and that's the end of his big pay day with the Klitschkos. That fight won't happen either. IF, and it's a big if, Helenius and Mitchell both get really established, then they could face each other prior to a title fight. But if I were managing either, I wouldn't do that. I would move them to the title first.
@MADMAC572 going to wait. Maybe Haye-Mitchell is too big, but Haye will likely have to beat someone before he gets another title shot. I think Mitchell is more borderline the top 10 contenders. Haye wouldn't take the fight, but Mitchell seems willing to fight anyone put in front of him. I think he should fight Povetkin; that would get him a belt and make him the #1 contender.
@crowley0312 Haye won't "likely" have to beat someone before he gets another title shot. He will likely fight Vitali next and then retire after he gets beaten. Povetkin is certainly an intersting, but also dangerous, choice. I would put him next in with some good guys who have seen better days (someone like Rahman). Let him get in a few fights against that level of opposition as he just did in his last fight. Then move on to someone like Povetkin. And fight often!
@MADMAC572 Yeah, your right. I was thinking about Abraham having to fight a few contenders before he can challenge Sturm. Am I the only one who thinks Haye is only using boxing to start an acting career?
Povetkin is the #1 contender in every organization. The only reason he hasn't fought a Klitsckho yet is because his trainer says he has more to learn. Vitali should fight him eventually. There can be two WBA Super champions, so it wouldn't be a bad idea.
@crowley0312 Povetkin is a good, rugged guy who does everything well. But he doesn't do anything extraordinary, and that's what it will take to beat Vitali right now. Vitali is looking for money fights, so whoever brings him the best payday is the guy he's going to fight. It's not about legacy for him anymore.
@MADMAC572 I don't think anyone can give Vitali a bigger payday than Povetkin. Maybe he's saving him for his last fight so he can make the most money out of it.
Anyway, your right about Haye. Haye used to talk about how he's going to be an all-time great.
Right now, there's no money to be made from him fighting Vitali. No one wants to watch that. If Haye cared about his reputation, he'd beat some contenders, show he's a worthy opponent, make people start to believe the toe excuse, etc.
@crowley0312 No you are mistaken about that. Vitali is viewed by the Germans as one of their own. They all watch him. Haye will be supported by British fight fans. On top of that, The Brits really do not like the Germans and the Germans really do not like the Brits. It's viseral. I lived in Germany for 18 years and you got to experience it to believe it. So this fight will get that nation on nation overtone thing, the "Vitali hates Haye" thing... it will be a very profitable fight.
@MADMAC572 Hmm.. I'm not sure. If Germans and Ukrainians work both ways because they'll watch him fight anyone, right? What about other countries that have to pay pay-per-view? Haye can only bring views from the UK, they'll want someone who's more popular globally. I don't think Germans and Russians like eachother, so theres Povetkin again. Fury is also from the UK and undefeated. Helenius would be a "win-win" for Germans.
There's better deals. Haye will need to wait his turn or earn it.
@crowley0312 England and Germany don't have pay per view. Unforunately for Vitali, he doesn't have cross over appeal in the US, which is why the brothers don't fight here anymore. That can't sell a ticket on their own. When / if Mitchell is able to carry a card, then it will make a ton of sense for one of the brothers to fight him here. WHEN. Right now, that's not the case. For Russians, Vitali is Ukrainian. No love loss either, but not the British / German angle. Hence Haye/Chisora
@MADMAC572 I said countries that have pay per view. America pays pay per view and the Klitsckhos aren't popular here, so a fight with Mitchell is one of the top buys. He's not that well known or experienced yet though. There's a huge hate cycle for Germans and Ukranians and Russians. There won't be one TV in Ukraine not tuned in for a Povetkin fight. For the UK, there's also Tyson Fury, but Steward trains him to so that's not likely. Than there's Germans Helenius and Huck. Overall, I think a
@MADMAC572 Haye-Vitali fight is unlikely, or at least not the first choice. There are much bigger purses. Outside of UK, Germany and Ukraine, people will want to pay for a fight that will be good. Haye was supposed to be good, but he turned out to be overhyped from sucess in the worst division and looked like an idiot inside and outside of the ring. Who's paying to watch him fight another Klitsckho after he got beaten one-sidedly by one? No one, unless he builds up support by beating contenders.
@crowley0312 I lived in Germany for 18 years. As a result I speak and read German. I read German newspapers often. Vitali has already said he intends to fight Haye after he fights Chisora. So I don't know why you keep saying it's unlikely. It's very likely. Maybe you think he shouldn't fight Haye, but don't confuse whether you think a fight should happen with whether or not it will happen.
@MADMAC572 Just saw that Vitali intends to fight Haye. I thought he wouldn't because he's fighting Chisora on the month Haye wanted to fight him. Not really sure why he's even fighting Chisora. I didn't see the fight, but is it because the robbery against Helenius was that obvious? Vitali said after Adamek that he's taking two or three more fights. So this is either it or he's got one more. I really hope it's Povetkin. That would be the icing on Vitali's career.
@crowley0312 I didn't think it was a robbery at all. People are too quick to use that term. The Helenius fight was close. I thought Chisora did enough to win, but not by a wide margin. RJJ at the Olympics was a robbery. Holyfield at the Olympics was a robbery. Chisora at some big shots in that fight. It was closer than some pundits pretend. Povetkin is, in my opinion, a more difficult fight than Haye and the money wouldn't be as good. Haye makes more sense.
@MADMAC572 Looking at it from Vitali's direct perspective, I think he wants to put some UK flags on his resume. He also might want to leave no doubt in people's minds that Haye is a joke. Any way, looking back at the Vitali-Lennox fight, I noticed there were two possible punches that could have given Vitali his injury: An overhand right or a smack in the face when they were hugging. It would be a huge shame if Lennox won by an illegal punch.
@crowley0312 Don't take this the wrong way, but I question how well you understand that sport. There is NOTHING illegal about punching out of a clinch. If your hands are free, and the ref has not said "stop" or "break", then you are free to punch. A punch out of a clinch is not an "illegal" punch. Vitali has never claimed the loss was in any way illegetimate. He was angry is was stopped at all, because while the cut was dangerous, he wasn't hurt. But it was a legal punch.
@MADMAC572 Lennox scored about 80% of his punches DURING a clinch. Remember that one part what Lennox punched Vitali about 10 times during a clinch and the ref didn''t do anything? Vitali has also never tried to get his loss to Byrd changed to ND even though he could do that fairly easily. Point is, Lennox was fighting super dirty in this fight.
@crowley0312 And I think describing Haye as a "joke" is hyperbole. Haye is not a great heavyweight. He won the title, and he was a solid heavyweight, but Evander Holyfield he isn't. He was a very good cruiserweight and had he stayed at that weight, he could have been a force. But Haye did not fight a lot, so he has not built a meaningful legacy as a championship boxer. I would like to see him fight Adamek, but that's not going to happen. Haye should just retire.
@MADMAC572 I meant Vitali wants Haye to look like a joke. He did good at crusierweight, although we all know the serious lack of talent in that division. I don't really see winning the WBA title as that big a deal. Impressive for anyone, yes, but he beat someone who has been ducking the Klitsckho's for forever and the lineal belt was unvacant. So yes, impressive, but not legendary.
@crowley0312 Haye isn't even close to a legendary fighter. Those kind of fighters are rare. The kind that take on all comers, who fight and win rematches against opponents who beat them, who fight trilogies, who fight often. Jake LaMotta was a legend (and an asshole), Mohammed Ali was a legend, Joe Louis was a legend, and Vitali Klitschko will have such a legacy (ever watch his barn burner with Sanders?). Haye, was a good fighter. Big difference.
@MADMAC572 But that won't happen. He won't change people's opinion on him. I'm not sure if he even has a single fan outside of the UK.
So, Haye SHOULD fight Povetkin, Boystov, Helenius or Chagaev. But he won't because his legacy is dead and the most he could do now is make a few million by getting his ass kicked by Vitali.
But is there really anything to make right now? He's going to need to do something to make people pay to see him fight. At the moment, no one's betting on Haye.
I wanna see mayweather fight donaire. But he won't! Donaire is a combo of pacquiao and mayweather. Basically pacquiao with mayweather's slickness. Hey Vic! Even that left hurt me watching! You got knocked out!
k20dc2r 6 days ago
HAHAHAH.. bring that armenian power shit some where else.. you fuckers aint shit IN LOS ANGELES EITHER>. LMFAO.. you weren't hurt VIC? you fucking dumb fuck!
JezZiKaALbiNokuuNt 2 weeks ago
british shit.. .
TheBlacklistTv 3 weeks ago
"i don't think i was knocked down" how stupid are you vic?
iLove2JacketXD 3 weeks ago
Of course he didn't feel he got hurt. He got knocked the fuck out. LOL.
GoldenShellback1 3 weeks ago
whats this got to do with pac mayweather when the video is about darchinyan saying hes not hurt when he was koed by donaire?? stupid pactards.
serannd 1 month ago
I don't think he knew what being hurt felt like til then lol. Vic has some balls though. How often do you see a guy get KOed and then square up and challenge his opponent after lol
NearHypnos 1 month ago
That's not hurt?? I bet he get hit around 2000 pound of force from Donaire's glove (sport science) lol
kambodiaboz 1 month ago
floyd only chance to fight pac is to kill the time and make the fight if pac not anymore on his prime...
shantalminiloveyou 1 month ago
@shantalminiloveyou you also got to know that mayweather is not in his prime as well...his clock is a ticking too
RayMysteryo 1 week ago
yap floyd could be a legend....if he did not fear pacquiao..demanding random drugtest and $100m dollars says that he feared pacquaio....60/40 means he feared pacquaio...
shantalminiloveyou 1 month ago
@shantalminiloveyou yeah. that stupid bitch ass faggot is scared.
JezZiKaALbiNokuuNt 2 weeks ago
fuck vick.. oh cmmon
meecatz 1 month ago
Vic... you should learn to loose... mostly now that you're gettin pretty good at loosin dude.
You were not hurt??? Shit... then why did we all see you drop to the canvas like a thurd on the toilet and stumbling towards the ropes at the end of the count?? Where you chicken-dancing mothafucka or what???
jcgax70 2 months ago
When I saw "all over the place" I don't mean that as a good thing. I mean he looked sloppy and unorganized compared to Vitali.
crowley0312 2 months ago
Vic Darchinyan was not hurt! He only felt like doing the "Stuff me like a Thanksgiving Turkey Dance combo with the Ostrich Face Plant"! Vic Darchinyan could be the next MTV sensation replacing the "Teach me how to dougie" with his patented move "Stuff me like a Turkey"! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
ratbukemala 2 months ago
I don't mean to be bogus, winning a world title is an amazing accomplishment. It think Holyfield should have won the fight with Valuev though. And Wladimir beat Chagaev, who should have been WBA champion all along. Not to mention Valuev had been running from the Klitsckho's longer than Haye.
Not to be a dick, but Haye was diffenitly a paper champion.
crowley0312 2 months ago
Vic: "I was not hurt with the punch"...."I made a magnificent combination move of a turkey waiting to be stuffed combined with an ostrich planting its head underground!"
ratbukemala 2 months ago
Bisdak representing.
RalfyBebe 2 months ago
Vic: "Do you think you respect me after you knock the hell out of me?! huh?! It's ok im fine I dun feel hurt..." Bwahahah!! what a trash talkin Armenian Aussy! After punched n knocked out by a left hook?! duhh..?! LOL
26southpaw 2 months ago
iv'e never seen so much denial
azpilipino123 2 months ago
LOL! Gary Shaw looks hella pissed! We all know he favored Darchinyan over Donaire.
rollopoloboy 2 months ago
@rollopoloboy No DUH he favored Vic, he's his promoter.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 he promoted both
rollopoloboy 2 months ago
@rollopoloboy Yes, but he had stopped promoting Donaire. If Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, who do you think Arum will be rooting for? (He promoted both)
crowley0312 2 months ago
idiot , he said he did not hurt by donaire.... he can't get up to his feet, ha ha ha, he's crawling like a baby..,
rigss88 3 months ago
VIC IS ALWAYS VICS VAPORUB. NO MORE THAN THAT = NOTHING GOOD AT MOUTHING
lynnebelle7 3 months ago
just admits it VIC !
The03021956 3 months ago
HAHAHAA..., WHY DID YOU ASK HIM SOME QUESTIONS LIKE THAT ABSOLUTELY HE IS A BIT DIZZY STILL HE DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING YET. JUST LIKE WAKING UP A SLEEPLESS MAN. HAHAHAHH
lynnebelle7 3 months ago
No way Floyd will lose to Pacman. Too slick, too much ring savvy, too defensively sound, too accurate with his punches and the best fighter Pacman will ever face. Pacman looks a million dollars facing washed up fighters like Hatton, slow mo predictable fighters like Margarito or past their sell by date fighters like Mosley and weight drained like Oscar but Marquez has shown again that a fighter with ring intelligence and movement causes him problems. What would Floyd do to Pacman and he is fresh
Adjuah38 3 months ago
@Adjuah38 Don't be so sure. Marquez is able to read Pacman like a book. His anticipation, not just his ability, are what give Pacquio so much trouble. It really comes down to two things - is Floyd's defense tight enough that he isn't going to get hit cleanly by a guy who's hit everyone he's tried to hit? And is Floyd's jab good enough to control the tempo of the fight? Floyd likes to fight at his pace, and Pacquio will force the tempo unless Floyd can prevent that with his jab. We'll know soon
MADMAC572 3 months ago
0:55 what's with the cheek pinch? eww.
shawoody 3 months ago
Actually he is not HURT...he just KNOCK OUT...! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
hanz1258 4 months ago
Vic didn't want to do this fight and Nonito was hungry for a major title. Now Vic is hungry for Donaire and Nonito is to busy taking pictures. Vic could possibly win a rematch.
crowley0312 4 months ago
Nonito's "respect" is just bullshit for the camera. After the fight, he was calling Vic his bitch and a sour old man. At least Vic can say it like it is. Stupid monkey asian wannabe fillipoono faggots.
crowley0312 4 months ago
bwahaha,he's not hurt?this man is very funny..
juvensharon 4 months ago
he must be still dreaming..hahaha
kixx027 4 months ago
look how such an asshole Vic Darchinyan is. Donaire expressed respect to him but he answers back by questioning Donaire's sense of respect to him instead of saying thank you and congratulating him as an act of sportsmanship.
jrsanti 4 months ago
@jrsanti agree. he's so idiot.
jugersreyes 4 months ago
armenian fuck..hehe
jhellie08 4 months ago in playlist Nonito Donaire Vs Darchinyan
I was not hurt... I don't know what hurt means?(someone whispers to him) Ahh. Is that it? coming out of the ring on a stretcher? that's hurt? Ah yah.. I was hurt..-VIC
jhellie08 4 months ago in playlist Nonito Donaire Vs Darchinyan
jajaja, i was not hurt? pendejo, si cayo como un costal de papas el imbecil Vic, que acepte su derrota, Nonito, master en el contraataque le dio una leccion a este pendejo, excelente pelea de Nonito
taoart71 4 months ago
ha ha,,what a stupid armenian to tell that he is not hurt,,..give him a rematch and he will sleep forever,... he he he
khamsaable 4 months ago
this how will gayfeather react if he will taste the first defeat on his career. hey floyd fight pacman if your really the best ..LOL
bluebirdnash1984 4 months ago
ur not hurt but ur knees says YES YOU ARE
upperheaven12 4 months ago
Por fín despertó Vic Darchinyan. He don´t know lost. He fight with the FLASH, tha´t s it!!!
MrDefleppard777 5 months ago
Vic is the greatest asshole ive seen... He's corner is fuckin embarrassed already.
batoymazing 5 months ago
Vic does not know what to say...because by time he is being interviewed, he is still dizzy with that perfect counter left by Donaire.
Accept that you have lost. You are so arrogant and disrespectful.
mzc079 5 months ago
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this guy is crazy dog the way he talks,,,,,Dobaire is giving him respect but crazy dog is till barking...
MrBuipali 5 months ago
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MrBuipali 5 months ago
armenians are stupid people ...this guy vic is an idiot
itsmyturn 5 months ago
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@itsmyturn Fuck you bitch, go suck your mommy's dick.
crowley0312 4 months ago
if theres one thing filipino boxers suck at, .. its trash talkin.. them mothafuckas too nice!!! haha
acousticLU 5 months ago
@acousticLU No need to trash talk. A true fighter is humble, & let's his fist do the talking. But also respects, & honors his opponent. Action speaks louder than words. :)
RobertLei 4 months ago
@RobertLei true. their fists are "loud" as fuck lol
acousticLU 4 months ago
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@acousticLU Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
RobertLei 4 months ago
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@RobertLei NoNoito was just smiling for the camera. Donaire was calling Vic his bitch and saying he's a sour old man after the fight. Donaire's all talk and photo shoots.
crowley0312 4 months ago
@acousticLU NoNoito was just smiling for the camera. Donaire was calling Vic his bitch and saying he's a sour old man after the fight. Donaire's a pussy.
crowley0312 4 months ago
@crowley0312 Well he can fight. Donaire is easily the best boxer 122 or under. He's a major challenge for Gamboa when that day comes.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Yeah, and UNDER cause he's fighting all these smaller guys. Narvaes wasn't even a bantamweight. I'd like to see Nonito fight someone serious like Gamboa or an improved Darchinyan.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Donaire is young and growing. He started at 112 pounds as a pro. He's been fighting guys in his own weight class. If you rag on Donaire then you have to rag on guys like Rios, who is hUGE at lightweight. Darchinyan is already fighting at a weight where he has real tough competetion at 118. He was great at 112. But at 118 he doesn't hit that hard anymore. Still very competetive, but not good enough to compete with Donaire.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Did you see Vic fight Perez? Or what about Mares? 1st round beating. 2nd round knockdown. 3rd round Abner's face looked like it was on it's period. Course, Mares won because he never missed an opportunity to give a low blow or punch during a hug, but the point is Vic can still hit hard. I'm still waiting for Nonito to fight Gamboa and rematch Vic. If he wins both, I'll admit he's the best Bantamweight.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Vic is a credible fighter at 118 and still a good puncher. He's just not the davastating freight train that he was at 112. The Mares fight was close, but I thought Vic actually won it. Donaire is leaving 118 - he can't make the weight anymore. So Vic will have to meet him at 122. Gamboa can't get down to 122, let alone 118. Once Donaire goes to 125, that will be it, he won't come back. So I don't see them fighting again. Vic needs to fight Agbeko (who I think will beat Mares).
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Mares is just lucky he's Golden Boy's new boy. It's debatable he and Vic had a draw, but Mares didn't win. I bet Promotions handpicked judges and hired a ref to ignore his low-blows. I'd rather see Vic KO Mares than Agbeko, but either one is fine. Mares would be bigger though. As for Donaire, Vic is also moving up to Super Bantamweight next year (and 125 later). A rematch is still possible.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Mares has had his share of luck, but he's a sound fighter and can match Vic on pretty equal terms. Frankly, with Donaire leaving, I think Agbeko is the best fighter in the division and I think he'd beat Vic. But between Vic, Mares and Agbeko, there isn't much separating them. All three are roughly on equal terms. As for Vic moving to 122, he can certainly compete there, but he's not particularly heavy handed at 118, he's likely to be less so at 122. In any case, Donaire is better.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 If Mares didn't throw 7-10 punches during a hug and three low blows every round, he wouldn't be on top. Anyways, I heard Abner say he's moving up to 122 after the Agbeko fight. Sucks how Agbeko gets a rematch at 118 and Vic doesn't, Mares did the same thing to him. Still hope Vic fights the winner, he's realized his mistakes in the first fights. As for Donaire, I want to see him fight Nishioka at 122. Nonitos had some easy fights lately, this will decide if he deserves to be #4 p4p.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 You can "what if" all day long, but the fact is that was a close fight and Vic certainly wasn't (and isn't going to) dominating that fight. Mares is a guy who's going to give Vic trouble. The Agbeko fight was MUCH more eggregious with many more low blows than the Darchinyan fight. Agbeko deserves a rematch. And I also think Agbeko is a better fighter than Vic. But I'd like to know for sure, rather than suspect. And the only way to know is if they fight.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@crowley0312 And I agree - Nishioka is a logical opponent for Donaire. But Donaire dominated all five rounds of their fight until Vic was knocked out. So I have no doubt that would happen again. Donaire is faster, he's a better defensive fighter, and he hits harder than Vic. He also has superior foot speed. And he's bigger to boot. He can't make 118 anymore, a weight Vic makes comfortably.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Vic has improve a lot more since their first fight. If Vic and Nonito fight again, I predict it will be like Pacquiao v. Marquez lll. An offensive fighting, photo shoot star outclassed by the aging and hungry defensive genius. And Donaire already moved up to 122. I can't believe Boxrec already has him #1 there. He should at least fight someone on 122 first. As for Vic, I hope he beats Yamanaka or Agbeko after the Mares fight and moves up to 122 asap. Then rematch Mares and/or Donaire.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Vic has improved, but Donaire is improving too. The bottom line is he's bigger, he's faster, his defense is tighter, his footwork is better. If they fight ten times, I think Donaire knocks him out ten times. If Vic can stay at 118, he should. There's good money fights to be had there. A rematch with Mares, Agbeko, Montiel...
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 So they both improved. I don't think Vic took Nonito seriously the first time; he was a nobody who already lost and his brother Glenn was terrible. Nonito's also had some pretty easy fights against smaller people lately (Narvaez wasn't even 118). Tommy Morrison looked good fighting averages, but got KO against top fighters. You can look good beating a punching bag, but a prize fighter can make you look like a bum. I want to see how Nonito does against Nishioka.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Vic can't beat him man. I don't care what he does, Donaire is better in every phase of the game. Donaire dominated every round of their last fight. And look at what he did to the very good Montiel. Yes, I agree Nishioka is a new challenge. He's a good fighter. My money is on Donaire, since I think Nishioka's best days are already behind him. The guy is 35 years old and while he's been pretty sharp, his level of opposition has only been decent.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Again, Vic probably didn't take Nonito seriously last time. Donaire was also hungry at the time. He hasn't been hungry since. But now Vic is. That will affect the fight. Nonito was much more serious than anyone Montiel ever faced. Although this is probably Nonito's biggest win. Do you agree he's overrated? He's good, but 4th in the world? I promise you, he's wouldn't be this popular if he wasn't following up on Manny. But I do think Donaire probably will likely beat Nishioka.
crowley0312 3 months ago
Respond to this video... First of all, he wasn't in the division that long. The ONLY weak fighter he fought at 118 was Narvaez. Secondly, he's only 29, and only in the last couple of years has he become a big name. Talk to me when he's 35 about his quality of opposition. So sure, Vic has done as much, but he's had a lot more time to do it. And when they met head to head, Nonito dominated him. And he will again if they fight again.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Montiel and Vic are his two big fights. After a big win, he takes easy matches to look good. Look at Vargas; he just stood there. Vic hasn't had much longer, he debuted at 24. Vics had 11 years and Nonito 10. Like Froch and Martinez, a late starter. I don't know why he waited so long though, those guys just started and Vic had been boxing since he was 8. Anyways, look at both Jones and Hopkins fights. Time is (usually) nicer for the defensive fighter.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Vic won't stay at 118. His goal is to become a 5 or 6-division champion. He's more interested in a legacy than money. And like I said, Mares is also moving up. Everyone is. 118 will be mostly Agbeko and Arce now. Vic knows he needs to fight Donaire again. Whenever someone brings up Darchinyan, someone else brings up how he lost to Donaire. Vic needs to settle this if he wants the respect he deserves (He's done as much as Donaire, who's major claim to fame is "The Next Pacquiao").
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 If Vic fights Donaire again, he'll lose again. Donaire is a naturally bigger, stronger, faster boxer and his defensive skills are superior as well. I like Vic, because he's fun to watch. He comes right at guys and he can punch. But Vic, like Nishioka, is 35. For the small guys that's really getting up there, because by the time you hit mid 30s your reflex speed is declining and at the lighter weights that's even more significant than the heavier weight classes.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 They said Holyfield couldn't beat Tyson, Marquez couldn't beat Pacquiao, Ali couldn't beat Foreman, Vic couldn't beat Mijares, etc. Don't always go with the popular choice. You heard of Elie Seckback? He just posted an interview of Vic saying he wants to beat Donaire. And look at the comments; Vic won't get the respect he deserves until he wins. I like Vic for his unique style and desire to fight the best and fight often each year. Maybe he'll lose, but he's got to try.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 I like Vic too. Don't get me wrong. He's entertaining to watch. And he's still a real force at 118. But the comparison of Vic-Donaire isn't Holyfield - Tyson or Marquez - Pacquio. It's Foreman - Frazier. Donaire owned Vic every minute of every round in their first fight. The KO wasn't some lucky punch. Donaire just has too much of everything for Vic. That's the bottom line.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I saw the whole fight. Nonito wasn't winning as badley as everyone says. Two of the cards were tied. The hit percents weren't far off (28% and 33%) and Vic was landing a lot of good blows too. Still could have gone either way. I don't think the KO was lucky, I think the problem was Vic walked right into it. Vic's improved with defeat, I don't think he'd make that mistake again. Yes, Nonito's improved too; he will have the advantage. But he's not invincible, he can be beaten too.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 I saw the whole fight too. Donaire controlled the fight from beginning to end. I didn't gived Vic a single round on my card. He landed a few straight lefts, but basically Donaire was blocking almost everything and hitting Vic pretty much at will. The Vic was lunging is because he couldn't work his way in. Nonito's jab was preventing that. But when he lunged, he ate that short right hook every time. Short of a lucky punch, I don't think Vic can beat him.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I gave Donaire 1 and 3 and Vic 2 and 4. Again, Vic's underestimation of Nonito is obvious. He taunted him a lot in the first two rounds and didn't bother preparing defense. I think a lot of people need to watch the fight again and see how close it was. Vic knocked Nonito down at the first round's end. If they had the same length arms, Nonito would've lost more. This fight had little to give Vic and a lot to give Nonito. Vic didn't worry about his defense. Next time would be different.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 In the first Darchinyan Mares fight, Vic said he'd go easy on the first couple rounds, then come all out. But he couldn't, he'd been hit in the balls a dozen times by that point. Vic said he realizes now he needs to go 100% from the start. And how does weighing 4 more pounds make a heavy-hitter worse? Vic accomplished more at 115, but showed he still had it at 118. Just had a lot of bad luck. Vic's proved a lot of people wrong so far, I believe he can do good at 122.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 It doesn't make the heavy hitter worse, but as most guys add weight, they don't tend to add power. So it's usually the same power hitting bigger guys with less effect. It's pretty normal for most (there are exceptions) guys as they move up in weight, they see a corresponding decrease in their ability to hurt opponents. Vic can compete at 122, but when you realize he's coming from 112... at some point he's going to hit the wall. My bet is 118 is where that point is for him.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I agree it doesn't add power, because it won't make a big difference. Nonito isn't the only one who can't make 118 anymore, Vic weighed the limit at the Moreno weigh-in. So, Vic will gain 4 pounds at the MOST. Not everyone hits the wall, Pacquiao debuted at 98 (7 pounds under smallest division) and now look at him. Mares hit Vic in the groin as much as Agbeko, Vic just didn't show pain. The fight was close and you can say Agbeko is better than Vic. But I say Vic is better than Abner.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 I don't think there's a lot seperating Vic and Mares. But vic is a lot more fun to watch as a fighter. I really like Agbeko, and at this point he's my favorite fighter in the division. As for hitting the wall, even Pacman has hit it. Is he going to fight Sergio Martinez? Hell no. Unless you make it to heavyweight, you always hit the wall weight wise. It's just a matter of where. I think with Vic it's about 118 and with Donaire about 130. Donaire is a naturally bigger guy.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Mares is good, but I still think his contract with Golden Boy is behind his luck. I agree with you on Manny. I figured out why Floyd's delaying their fight; Defensive fighters have longer careers than Offensive fighters. Pacquiao needs to fight Mayweather and maybe Khan and Bradley before it's to late. And of course he won't fight Martinez, he'd have to gain at least 10 pounds. Now, given Vic is a defensive fighter and hasen't shown serious decline, I'd give him 126, maybe 130.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Ahhh Vic is definitely NOT a defensive fighter. He doesn't even have a very good defense. Vic is offensive all the way. Look at the position of his hands when he fights. It is true he hasn't been beat up a lot, because guys are too busy trying not to get hit to hit him much. But he's not a great defensive fighter and he's 35! 122 Maybe. Maybe. I don't think there's any way he can be expected to compete against guys lioke Gamboa and Russell at 126.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Hmm... He reminds me of a defensive fighter though, since he's a counter puncher and because he tricks people into making mistakes with his unusual style, then attacks. We can agree he's a slow-pace fighter, right? Speed is the first thing to go. Vic doesn't rely on it, Nonito does. And you're only as young as you feel. Look at Archie Moore. And there's Hopkins proving age can be overcome in modern boxing. Vitali is 40 and still unbreakable. Lewis and Wladimir got better with age.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 By the time Nonitos speed goes, Vic will have long since been retired. There are very, very few guys who remain at the top of their game past 35, and fewer still below 147. Vic's game is a touch more speed dependent than you think, since he's very open and relies on slipping and countering (and countering with heavy hands). He's face is wide open. When he can't slip anymore... When Nonito's speed declines, he will become a good fighter, but he won't be great anymore.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I'm kind of glad Vic lost because it allowed him to grow as a boxer. Let's look at what Vic has over Nonito: Power. Vic mostly held his ground from Nonito's punches until the end, but Vic's punches could send Nonito back a couple feet. Since styles make fights, I'm sure Vic would go into a rematch 110% more prepared for someone with longer reach. Would Nonito be as hungry as he was before? Hell no. Btw, Holyfield-Tyson was 1-25 for Holyfield. Anything can happen.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 In my view Vic has NOTHING over Nonito. Ninito hits harder, is faster, has superior footwark, better defense. He's better in everyt aspect of the sport. They fight again, Vic gets knocked out again. He can't beat Nonito.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I figured out a way Vic could beat Nonito. He needs to be like Calzaghe was against Hopkins: get inside him and don't give him a chance to think, keep up a fast pace. If Vic takes the fight inside, his smaller reach will work to his advantage. He should also put Nonito against a corner and land combos. He can beat Nonito.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 He can't get inside for two reasons. One, Nonito has better footwork and will change up the angles so Vic's attempts to get inside will be frustrated. Two, Nonito's jab will stop his forward movement every time. Nonito's jab is hard, it's not a range finder like some guys. I don't think Vic has even a small chance against Nonito, and that chance is getting less all the time as Nonito grows into a bigger weight class and Vic leaves a weight he can make comfortably.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 After last night, I've lost all hope that Vic can succed at 122 or even boxing anymore.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Moreno is a good fighter, and counter-punchers with quick hands are difficult for aggressive guys like Vic. Vic is highly competetive at 118, but he's just not dominant at that weight. He might still beat Mares if they have a rematch.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I am very sad about that fight. Moreno may have had the style advantage, but 4 of his title defenses were SD... against second rate fighters! If Vic did one last thing in his career, I wanted that to be being a 3 division major champion (he's only won 2 minor and 1 regional as a bantamweight). Now they're talking about a Mares Moreno fight.. If Mares wins, I hope he will not vacate his belts but defend them against Vic instead. He wanted to prove he could beat Agbeko fair and square,
crowley0312 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 (continued) now lets see if he can beat Vic fair and square. Sadly, months ago his team wasn't interested in rematching Vic. Still, Vic was calling Mares out at the last press conference. He even said he'd give Mares his purse (money won) if he can beat him again. I think if Vic keeps insulting him, Mares would look pretty bad if he didn't give Vic a shot.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 And if Vic's still going to 122, I think he should fight Nishioka (he's also aging) or Ramos (only champion shorter than Vic). And for 126, Salido is the best choice.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Well, guess what? I just saw on The Ring website that Nonito might be fighting Wilfredo Vazquez Jr. for the vacant WBO 122 title in February. Varquez is coming off a loss to Jorge Arce. Now, is this really the fight the #4 fighter in the world should be picking? He should be fighting the 122 #1 fighter (Nishioka), not the #9. Nonito is good, but I hate how The Ring uses their rankings to help rising fighters (like Bradley and Khan). Do you agree Nonito shouldn't be the #4 p4p?
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 I don't place much stock in P4P ratings. They are fairly subjective ratings. As for who he is fighting - fights are made based on a lot of factors, but it comes down to this: Risk vs gain. Everytime. And it should. A fighters manager / promoter should not be putting his man in a high risk fight without commensurate reward. Nishioka is probably a tough fight to make and to make money probably has to be done in Japan...
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 It's perfectly fine if Nonito wants to take the easy title fight. But if he wants to take easy fights, he shouldn't be #4. Do you honestly want to see Nonito fight Varquez? Easy win. Arum was talking about Nishioka for awhile. There is no more risk in that fight more than their was in the Montiel fight. Nishioka has also defended his title outside Japan before. But whatever. This way, Vic can challenge a 122 champion his age. Still disappointed in Nonito for going for the vacant belt.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 He's being evaluated on what he's done, not on what he's going to do. That's how fighters are rated. And he's coming off a succession of wins, including a huge win against the dangerous Montiel. He deserves to be rated high in the P4P rankings. To maintain that rating, he'll have to fight more quality opposition. Sadly, Gamboa is moving to 130, and I am not sure Donaire can compete at that weight. VERY few fighters go from 112 to 130 and retain their effectiveness.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 No, I think Nonito is being evaluated a lot by what people think he'll do. "The Next Pacquiao" says as much. Montiel was clearly scared. You will never beat someone you're scared of. Again, look at Tommy Morrison. Looked good climbing the ranks, but got destroyed by prize fighters. Nonito is good, but maybe not as good as everyone thinks. I was hoping Gamboa would expose him. I will be convinced Donaire deserves #4 if he beats John or Lopez at 126.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 No fighter is rated in P4P ratings on potential. Ever. By anyone who actually does ratings. It doesn't work that way. Maybe "some people" do that, but not ring magazine sportswriters. Bottom line, Nonito has earned a high rating by beating good fighters in a convincing and winning titles in three weight classes. He deserves a high rating. Who would you rate ahead of him right now?
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Perhaps not on unbiased ratings, but the Ring magazine has been known to use their ratings to overhype young fighters. It's mostly accurate though. Nonito's not the only one to win three different division titles and beat good fighters (So has Vic). People that should be above him: Pacquiao, Mayweather, Both Klitsckho's, Marquez, Bute, Martinez, Cotto, Ward, Froch, Dawson, Wonjongkam and Hopkins.
I have Donaire tied with Bradley in #15.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 As for Donaire's rating, he is a three division champion and most of his recent fights have been spectacular. He blew two highly respected fighters (Darchinyan and Montiel) right out of the ring. Darchinyan went from never having been down before to being destroyed with one punch. So yeah, Donaire is clearly a rising star with incredible speed, power and agility.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Montiel's face in the stare down reminded me of Patterson's when he fought Liston. No chance he was going to win. And I just realized I talked to you about Marciano and Liston and Vitali before, heh. I still don't think Marciano ducked Liston. Thanks to losing to a bum and his crime past, Liston didn't have a title shot considered until the second or third Patterson and Johansson fight. I think Vitali could beat him though. I wasn't one of those people who puts down the Klitschkos.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Vitali is a very underrated champion. The more I think about it, I'm not sure how any of the past greats could beat him. He's a great technician with brutal power. His brother and Lewis fought similar, but to beat them, you just need to fight inside and make use of their glass jaws. But Vitali has an iron jaw. Both his losses are bad luck. His style is boring, yet completly impenetrable. Unless they got a lucky injury, I can't see anyway anyone could KO Vitali.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Yeah, Vitali is tough. Lennox beat him, and Lennox was a more complete fighter and just as big. But they fight ten times, I bet Vitali wins five. A big part of Vitalis success is his size and his ability to use it. He has, I think, the best jab ever. Very long, very fast, very hard. And as you said, he's got a good chin. I think Mike Tyson in his prime might have been a problem for Vitali IF he could slip past the jab. No way to know one way or the other.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I feel bad for Vitali, he was robbed in that fight. Vitali seems more complete to me and out of 10 fights, I think he'd average 7 wins. It was pretty cool how he won over the crowd. Lennox had no answers as soon as round 2 and only gave Vitali 8 days to train. He was going to lose. I just can't see how anyone can convincingly beat Vitali. Ali would be close because they both have the same reach, yet Vitali's taller. Sad he'll retire soon, but he's definitly left his mark.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 He wasn't robbed. He lost the fight on a terrible cut. It happens. Robbed means he should have won and the victory was somehow taken away. That's not what happened. And no, I don't think he beats Lennox 7 out of ten. Lennox was a more complete fighter and a better athlete.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Winning by a cut is a weak way to win. If Vitali continued, he'd be blind. Both of Vitali's losses could be argued as No decisions. ND's are usually avoided in title bouts. Also, Lennox used his age as an excuse. Well, Vitali's 2 years older than Lewis was than and still the same; he's clearly the better athlete. I'd have to rate Vitali higher on a p4p list. And yes, I think Vitali wins 6 or 7; more than Lewis. Vitali seems more complete a fighter to me. Why do you think Lennox is?
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Look, they fought, Vitali lost - that's the bottom line. No, I don't think Vitali is better than Lennox and no I don't think he wins more if they meet more often. But it's all speculation. And that counts for nothing. All that counts is what guys do. Why did Lennox retire? Because he had already been in a lot of tough fights and was ready to hang em up. He definitely was not "afraid" of Vitali. Only guys who don't fight think that boxers fear other boxers.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 No issues with my Nonito rank? Anyway, Vitali LOST, but Lennox was LOSING. I have already given a good reason why Vitali is the better athlete, why do you think Lennox was more complete than Vitali? Also, did you hear Hopkins-Dawson was declared No Decision? Vitali-Byrd should be too. Lewis didn't fear the Klitsckho's, it was more that he feared losing. Make no mistake, Lennox was good. I just think Vitali's better. So far, he's the only HW Champion to never get knocked down, right?
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 I don't know why you have a hard on for Nonito. He is definitely a top P4P fighter, he's active and he's beat named opponents in multiple weight classes. He's highly skilled and entertaining to watch. The P4P ratings obviously tend toward the subjective, but Nonito has had a very good last couple of years. The biggest problem for him is he's got nobody to fight that will make him real money now. Gamboa was the guy, and he left featherweight.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I told you, he has fights against punching bags much smaller than him. It's not entirely his fault, but he shouldn't be #4 in the world. That's insulting to the Klitschko's, Marquez, Cotto, Hopkins, Froch and Ward. The most over the top thing I've heard about him is that he should be #2 p4p and that he's like Pacquiao and Mayweather combined. Let's see him be like those two combined and exciting when he fights a prize fighter who doesn't fear him or underestimate him.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Why would you think that Vitali - Byrd should be a no-decision? Klitschko retired on his stool because he was hurt during the fight. Do you know the rules of boxing? That's a loss. Hopkins was declared a no-decision because the cause of the injury was something illegal done by his opponent. That is not the case with Klitschko. The declaration of a no contest isn't something arbitray. There are rules governing the sport.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@crowley0312 And yes I agree Vitali has a better chin, but Lennox had better footspeed, a better right cross, a better uppercut and a better left hook. He's basically a better puncher than Vitali. Maybe "you just think" he's better, but again, you rate guys based on performance, not because "you just think" someone should be rated high.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 When did I say "Just because I think"? I think Vitali's better because he has a stronger jaw, better defense and is a more skilled technician. Vitali moves around the ring better, like a machine. Lewis was all over the place.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Also, don't look now but two up and coming guys are likely to give the Klitschkos are hard time... Mitchell and Helenius. Both of these guys are very big, very strong, very heavy hands. Helenius had a bad fight his last outing, but he remains a definite threat. Mitchell is very short on experience, but very long on athleticism, strength and toughness. I would not be surprised to see either of these two guys beat Vitali if he hangs around long enough to fight them.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 That, along with the highest KO%, will get him a high place in history. Now, Mitchell seems a little hyped, right? I think he gets to much credit for being The Great American Hope and this is coming from an American. He's strong, but the Klitsckho's can dominate him with experience alone. So far he's KO'd a few tomato cans... What happens when he goes in the ring with a battle-worn veteran? I would love to see Vitali fight either one and/or Povetkin before he retires though.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Mitchell looked really good blowing out a tough and experienced Ibragimov. He's a very gifted athlete - perhaps the best athlete in the heavyweight division. He's learning fast, and his reflexes are good. But Vitali is already talking retirement. Understandably, as he's getting old and tired. So he might retire before said fight could take place. But I agree Vitali is still a bridge too far for him today.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 Ibragimov's best days are behind him. He was never that good anyway. Don't get the wrong idea on Vitali. He's not retiring because of age. According to his coach, "his political activity in Ukraine requires a lot of time and energy." He also says, "[Vitali has] never been so fit" and "[Vitali is still] getting better." Understandable, clearling out the top 10 contenders must get boring after awhile. Point is, he's not slowing down. And I still want to know how Lewis' more 'complete.'
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Vitali is 40. You ever box? That's old. He's had plenty of fights against hard hitting guys. His reflexes are slower now. He's smarter of course, which helps compensate. But 40 is old for ANY fighter (including Benard Hopkins). It all gets harder. Anyone who has done it knows this. So yes, I am sure that Vitali is not tired of making the money, but his body isn't going to allow him to do it forever. Nobodies does.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Yes, Vitali is old. What I meant was, the MAIN reason Vitali is retiring soon is because of his political career. Of course age plays a factor, but if that was the only reason Vitali had to retire, he could probably fight a couple more years. It all gets harder, but how hard is different for everyone. Vitali has proved, however, that he stands alongside Moore, Hopkins, Greb, Robinson and Langford in the Ageless group.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Mitchell's good, but he's got a long way to go and in a little time. I predict Helenius to succeed the Klitschko's. But not beat them, win the belts after they retire. Maybe he'll beat Wladimir a couple years from now. Like you said, look at the trouble Chisora gave him. Chisora will be Vitali's next opponent and I predict Vitali to dominate him.
crowley0312 3 months ago
@crowley0312 Chisora won't get past Vitalis jab. At this point in his career, I believe Vitali has the best jab of any heavyweight in history. He really knows how to use it. His other punches are good, but not great. But that jab, that's a great punch. That combined with his chin and dominant size make him a tough fight for any heavyweight out there. Chisora has a quirky style, but he's an absoutely pedestrian fighter. No way he beats Vitali.
MADMAC572 3 months ago
@MADMAC572 I'd rather watch Vitali fight David "The Toebreaker" Haye than Chisora. Haye is a good example on what I think will trouble Mitchell. Stepping in the ring with an elite for the first time is just a whole new level. Odds are they've already fought and beat someone like you. Vitali's good; I still think him vs. Ali would be 50-50. Ali would likely have problems fighting someone with the same reach and taller than him. Hopefully beating Mitchell will get rid of the 'boring' critisism.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Ali would have no chance against Vitali. None at all. He'd seldom get past that jab, and when he did, he wouldn't be able to hurt Vitali. He was not a big puncher. It would take a guy who was not only fast, but could hit. MAYBE a prime time Tyson would have been a problem, because Tyson slipped punches really well AND had heavy hands. But he'd have to get past the jab.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Unless Mitchell is chinny, he'll walk right through Haye. Too big, too strong, and Haye has one weapon - that overhand right. Neutralize that and you'll beat him.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Mitchell? I meant I'd rather watch Vitali vs Haye than Vitali vs Chisora. Haye is quite possibly the worst Heavyweight champion of all time. I'd love to watch Vitali KO him and shut him up. After the fight, he might even say something like, "Yeah, um, the reason I couldn't fight my best out there was because I broke my jaw in training and had to get it replaced with break-away glass." Mitchell would probably beat Haye too. They might fight to decide who challenges Vitali.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Haye won't do that. He'll want the payday that his name establishes. Vitali too. It's not about merit, it's about money. Haye is a much bigger payday than Mitchell for Vitali and Vitali is a much bigger payday for Haye than Mitchell. So none of those guys are fighting Mitchell soon.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Well, he'll probably have to fight someone before he gets a shot at Vitali. And I disagree on payday. Haye let a lot of people down in the Wladimir fight. He might even get the upset of the year award (Although I'm betting on that going to Khan). Haye talked all this thrash that he's going to rule Heavyweight, then lost nearly every round. Does anyone really want to see him fight again? There's a lot of demand for one of the brothers to fight Mitchell. That's the bigger pay-day.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 British fight fans will buy into the "broken toe" excuse one time. So yes, he can use that excuse and get British fight fans to watch him. German and Ukrainian fans will tune in to watch Vitali fight almost anyone. So yes, the Haye fight is worth more at this point. Down the road, as Mitchell continues to make a name for himself, that fight will be worth more. But I'm not sure Vitali will still be active then.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Britian lost their last champion last night. There's more money to be made in America now. Like you said, German and Ukrainian fans will always tune in to watch Vitali fight, so that works both ways. No one takes the Heavyweight division seriously because the Klitsckho's dominate everyone. Lots of Americans will tune in to see if they can get a Heavyweight title back. Diffenitly a lot of money to make off Mitchell. Haye will might need a return win, so Haye-Mitchell is also possible.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Crowley, exactly because Froch lost last night, Haye's value goes up. The Brits will tune in. Secondly, negotiations for that fight are taking place now. Thirdly, if Vitali fought Mitchell, it would have to be in Germany. Vitali is never going to fight in the US again. His market is there, not here. Germany does not have pay per view. He does large stadiums and gate sales are where he's getting his money... So it definitely looks like Haye vs Klitschko.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 I was thinking Ward (who by the way, I think is the next face of American boxing) winning made boxing more popular in America, whereas Froch losing took away some of UK's boxing popularity. Also, I've heard lots of people from the UK say they don't like Haye. Everybody hate's someone who thinks their cool because they talk thrash and can't back it up. Negotiations were being made, but Vitali's fighting Chisora now. Seeing as how Haye is supposed to be retired, I wonder how long he is
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 As for Haye Mitchell. Haye doesn't take that fight. Not a big money fight. Americans don't know who Haye is. Mitchell eats him alive, and that's the end of his big pay day with the Klitschkos. That fight won't happen either. IF, and it's a big if, Helenius and Mitchell both get really established, then they could face each other prior to a title fight. But if I were managing either, I wouldn't do that. I would move them to the title first.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 going to wait. Maybe Haye-Mitchell is too big, but Haye will likely have to beat someone before he gets another title shot. I think Mitchell is more borderline the top 10 contenders. Haye wouldn't take the fight, but Mitchell seems willing to fight anyone put in front of him. I think he should fight Povetkin; that would get him a belt and make him the #1 contender.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Haye won't "likely" have to beat someone before he gets another title shot. He will likely fight Vitali next and then retire after he gets beaten. Povetkin is certainly an intersting, but also dangerous, choice. I would put him next in with some good guys who have seen better days (someone like Rahman). Let him get in a few fights against that level of opposition as he just did in his last fight. Then move on to someone like Povetkin. And fight often!
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Yeah, your right. I was thinking about Abraham having to fight a few contenders before he can challenge Sturm. Am I the only one who thinks Haye is only using boxing to start an acting career?
Povetkin is the #1 contender in every organization. The only reason he hasn't fought a Klitsckho yet is because his trainer says he has more to learn. Vitali should fight him eventually. There can be two WBA Super champions, so it wouldn't be a bad idea.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Povetkin is a good, rugged guy who does everything well. But he doesn't do anything extraordinary, and that's what it will take to beat Vitali right now. Vitali is looking for money fights, so whoever brings him the best payday is the guy he's going to fight. It's not about legacy for him anymore.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 I don't think anyone can give Vitali a bigger payday than Povetkin. Maybe he's saving him for his last fight so he can make the most money out of it.
Anyway, your right about Haye. Haye used to talk about how he's going to be an all-time great.
Right now, there's no money to be made from him fighting Vitali. No one wants to watch that. If Haye cared about his reputation, he'd beat some contenders, show he's a worthy opponent, make people start to believe the toe excuse, etc.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 No you are mistaken about that. Vitali is viewed by the Germans as one of their own. They all watch him. Haye will be supported by British fight fans. On top of that, The Brits really do not like the Germans and the Germans really do not like the Brits. It's viseral. I lived in Germany for 18 years and you got to experience it to believe it. So this fight will get that nation on nation overtone thing, the "Vitali hates Haye" thing... it will be a very profitable fight.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Hmm.. I'm not sure. If Germans and Ukrainians work both ways because they'll watch him fight anyone, right? What about other countries that have to pay pay-per-view? Haye can only bring views from the UK, they'll want someone who's more popular globally. I don't think Germans and Russians like eachother, so theres Povetkin again. Fury is also from the UK and undefeated. Helenius would be a "win-win" for Germans.
There's better deals. Haye will need to wait his turn or earn it.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 England and Germany don't have pay per view. Unforunately for Vitali, he doesn't have cross over appeal in the US, which is why the brothers don't fight here anymore. That can't sell a ticket on their own. When / if Mitchell is able to carry a card, then it will make a ton of sense for one of the brothers to fight him here. WHEN. Right now, that's not the case. For Russians, Vitali is Ukrainian. No love loss either, but not the British / German angle. Hence Haye/Chisora
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 I said countries that have pay per view. America pays pay per view and the Klitsckhos aren't popular here, so a fight with Mitchell is one of the top buys. He's not that well known or experienced yet though. There's a huge hate cycle for Germans and Ukranians and Russians. There won't be one TV in Ukraine not tuned in for a Povetkin fight. For the UK, there's also Tyson Fury, but Steward trains him to so that's not likely. Than there's Germans Helenius and Huck. Overall, I think a
crowley0312 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Haye-Vitali fight is unlikely, or at least not the first choice. There are much bigger purses. Outside of UK, Germany and Ukraine, people will want to pay for a fight that will be good. Haye was supposed to be good, but he turned out to be overhyped from sucess in the worst division and looked like an idiot inside and outside of the ring. Who's paying to watch him fight another Klitsckho after he got beaten one-sidedly by one? No one, unless he builds up support by beating contenders.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 I lived in Germany for 18 years. As a result I speak and read German. I read German newspapers often. Vitali has already said he intends to fight Haye after he fights Chisora. So I don't know why you keep saying it's unlikely. It's very likely. Maybe you think he shouldn't fight Haye, but don't confuse whether you think a fight should happen with whether or not it will happen.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Just saw that Vitali intends to fight Haye. I thought he wouldn't because he's fighting Chisora on the month Haye wanted to fight him. Not really sure why he's even fighting Chisora. I didn't see the fight, but is it because the robbery against Helenius was that obvious? Vitali said after Adamek that he's taking two or three more fights. So this is either it or he's got one more. I really hope it's Povetkin. That would be the icing on Vitali's career.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 I didn't think it was a robbery at all. People are too quick to use that term. The Helenius fight was close. I thought Chisora did enough to win, but not by a wide margin. RJJ at the Olympics was a robbery. Holyfield at the Olympics was a robbery. Chisora at some big shots in that fight. It was closer than some pundits pretend. Povetkin is, in my opinion, a more difficult fight than Haye and the money wouldn't be as good. Haye makes more sense.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Looking at it from Vitali's direct perspective, I think he wants to put some UK flags on his resume. He also might want to leave no doubt in people's minds that Haye is a joke. Any way, looking back at the Vitali-Lennox fight, I noticed there were two possible punches that could have given Vitali his injury: An overhand right or a smack in the face when they were hugging. It would be a huge shame if Lennox won by an illegal punch.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Don't take this the wrong way, but I question how well you understand that sport. There is NOTHING illegal about punching out of a clinch. If your hands are free, and the ref has not said "stop" or "break", then you are free to punch. A punch out of a clinch is not an "illegal" punch. Vitali has never claimed the loss was in any way illegetimate. He was angry is was stopped at all, because while the cut was dangerous, he wasn't hurt. But it was a legal punch.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 Lennox scored about 80% of his punches DURING a clinch. Remember that one part what Lennox punched Vitali about 10 times during a clinch and the ref didn''t do anything? Vitali has also never tried to get his loss to Byrd changed to ND even though he could do that fairly easily. Point is, Lennox was fighting super dirty in this fight.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 And I think describing Haye as a "joke" is hyperbole. Haye is not a great heavyweight. He won the title, and he was a solid heavyweight, but Evander Holyfield he isn't. He was a very good cruiserweight and had he stayed at that weight, he could have been a force. But Haye did not fight a lot, so he has not built a meaningful legacy as a championship boxer. I would like to see him fight Adamek, but that's not going to happen. Haye should just retire.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 I meant Vitali wants Haye to look like a joke. He did good at crusierweight, although we all know the serious lack of talent in that division. I don't really see winning the WBA title as that big a deal. Impressive for anyone, yes, but he beat someone who has been ducking the Klitsckho's for forever and the lineal belt was unvacant. So yes, impressive, but not legendary.
crowley0312 2 months ago
@crowley0312 Haye isn't even close to a legendary fighter. Those kind of fighters are rare. The kind that take on all comers, who fight and win rematches against opponents who beat them, who fight trilogies, who fight often. Jake LaMotta was a legend (and an asshole), Mohammed Ali was a legend, Joe Louis was a legend, and Vitali Klitschko will have such a legacy (ever watch his barn burner with Sanders?). Haye, was a good fighter. Big difference.
MADMAC572 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 By any chance do you think Floyd Mayweather Jr. isn't a legend?
(Yes, I saw the fight with Sanders. I think this is Vitali's biggest win out of all his fights.)
crowley0312 2 months ago
@MADMAC572 But that won't happen. He won't change people's opinion on him. I'm not sure if he even has a single fan outside of the UK.
So, Haye SHOULD fight Povetkin, Boystov, Helenius or Chagaev. But he won't because his legacy is dead and the most he could do now is make a few million by getting his ass kicked by Vitali.
But is there really anything to make right now? He's going to need to do something to make people pay to see him fight. At the moment, no one's betting on Haye.
crowley0312 2 months ago