As I said, El Proximo, I'm done explaining things to you. You keep not understanding 1John and are carnal. God will have to spank you to wake you up. My due diligence disclosure to you is done.
I've heard people like you many many times over the decades, and I know what will happen to you if you don't wake up. But now I leave. Post anything you like, I won't respond anymore. God will.
ElProximo, God will not impose on you. So you must believe to be saved. But your soul is still filled with wrong thinking. It must be replaced with Christ's thinking, & Spirit won't do that apart from your consent. So if you sin, You Refuse Consent.
He will not fill a defiled temple. That's why 1John is about FELLOWSHIP, not salvation. If you won't use 1John1:9, you are in the dark, per 1John1:8, 10.
It's how His payment is USED ON you, after salvation. God will answer you further, I'm done.
Sigh, ElProximo, no one's saying you get paid anything. OF COURSE only Christ paid, OF COURSE God got paid. But how much of that payment APPLIES to you, which Isaiah 53:12 promises, requires your CONSENT. For it is an INHERITANCE aka 'promise' (both are Bible terms), and you have a right to elect against the will.
But you misinterpret the issues, misunderstand that by refusing 1John1:9 you are ONLY electing to be saved but NOT to grow up in Christ's Thinking. So you are saved, but retarded.
ElProximo, I never said ALL our sins are blotted out at the cross. Others say that, but I didn't. Christ PAID FATHER for all sin on the cross. When we believe, the PRE-salvation sins were blotted out, and you need 1John1:9 for the post-salvation sins. God got paid, but salvation is an issue about the payment applying to YOU.
People who don't know Bible shouldn't be 'sharing' it. They mess up the issues. To say 'you can bring them with you' is one such misstatement of the Bible.
YOU don't bring anyone. God does all the work. So the issue is to first GROW UP yourself. God will make use of that, and of you, Eph2:10.
ok now you want to break down my words? ok how about you can be obedient and spread the gospel, plant the seed, allow God to give the increase, instead of debating doctrine with other christians.
Voicing your view is fine, brian9monty, you won't be censored. But when you misuse Bible, I have to call you on that. Other people are watching these comments.
If you didn't have 'potential', I'd just ignore you. But you have an interest in God which is not conventional, and that's a hopeful sign.
brian9monty, you can't be obedient to the gospel if you don't learn the Bible. You believe, get saved, are a spiritual baby until you grow up on Word, Hebrews 5:11-6:12.
It's far better to learn doctrine than to spread a baby's idea of the Gospel. Too many babies in Christianity, and they mess up what the Gospel even IS. I wish they would shut up and learn, first. Then they wouldn't be helping so many to go to hell.
God knows the heart. God looks at the heart. Confession is a part of continued repentance. verse 8 states we have sin. verse 9 states we must be putting to death this sinful flesh.(repentance) This is what john means. It is possible one can confess and not mean it. The next chapter says if we do sin, we have an advocate!...but.. Willful sin has no sacrifice.1 jn 3:9. You see? Its the heart.
All sin is willful, brian9monty. 1John3:9 doesn't say what you claim of it. You need to use 1John1:9 to get God's Brains and read it between sins, k?
No one in a state of sin can read Bible properly. That's why I call myself 'brainout', to remind me to use 1John1:9. It's breathing, so I use it like breathing.
Be respectful! Ask me what I mean. What im saying is some sins are quick without thought, habitual, unknowing until done.They must be confessed and forsaken.
Then there are those with thought, done regardless, on purpose, ignoring the signs.Willful. These prove you are not His.
Okay, brian9monty, have you never willfully sinned since you believed in Christ? Sure you have. Sin is always a willful act, whether quick and below radar, or premeditated. You seem to regard only the latter as a problem. But there are two kinds: those sins so ingrained they are thoughtless habits; and those which are insisted upon. Both types were paid for on cross, as indeed all sin was paid for.
Agreed, brian9monty. But don't confuse the Lord Lord unsaved with the saved who are carnal. Three types: unsaved thinking they are 'Christian', saved who are at the moment carnal, and saved who are using 1John1:9. The latter two will be in heaven post-death. Spiritual growth DEPENDS on regular use of 1John1:9.
Unfortunately, your logic is faulty, and a straw horse....what if you forget to confess any one particular sin? Please study this for your self and let the Holy Spirit teach you, instead of depending on a human. With you line of thinking you are no different than the priest from Hebrews 10 doing that thing that can never make you perfect, while the one sacrifice 10:10 sanctified those that believe, then perfected forever them that are sanctified 10:14 and 10:17 sins I will remember NO more.
BakuganDanKuso, you need to see the first video called "Why We Need 1John1:9" which walks the viewer through the OT verses saying the same thing -- the Levitical sacrifices were NAME SIN SPECIFIC, and you put your hand on the animal, named your sin, and the priest slit its throat.
So I'll ignore your anti-Biblical interpretation, since you clearly are carnal, since you disavow use of 1John1:9. God will answer you further, not me.
UPDATE, 9/28/08: I can't find anything to refute this video's conclusion, and only find verses to support it. We Christians confuse salvation with forgiveness post-salvation. Best to get my pastor's "Law of Double Punishment" series (no money ever requested) from rbthieme(dot)org. I wrote webpages on it, too. But you need authority, to see this.
Basic idea is that your soul's consent is always required. Salvation is a one-shot deal, but post-salvation you must CONSTANTLY choose to live God's Way, or your own. Sin means you choose your own way, so your soul stays trashed up.
So in a state of sin you are basically blaspheming the Work of the Cross if you don't name your sins. That's why 1Jn1:6-10 reads as it does. You find the same idea in Leviticus 28, Deut 28, 2Chron 7:14, the many OT verses where God says you must 'return' to Him. Those are all post-salv. So capital punishment results eventually, if 1Jn1:9 ISN'T used, 1Jn5:16, Hezekiah's and Manessah's repentence versus death, etc.
So when the believer dies, he goes to heaven in any event. But as what? A spiritual retard, if he stopped using 1Jn1:9 while down here. And, while down here, he will experience ever-more-intense Divine Discipline UNTIL he uses 1Jn1:9. If he won't, then finally it's capital punishment, 1Jn5:16, Acts 5, etc.
Yours was a good point too, I think us christians should work together to rule out all falsehood and get out story straight so we can stand united when the eccumenical/interfaith/newage movement attacks us,it's prophecied to happen and is already forming,may God be with us all as we rebuke false doctrines from ALL denominations.....
Well, aesthetictripp, getting the story straight in our own heads so we can learn God would be the goal. Else it's the gaol, being imprisoned in crusades with those who are also trapped by falsehood. :)
beloved devon rose, you don't ASK for forgiveness. Greek verb in 1Jn1:9 is homologew, and it's a courtroom verb means to admit by CITING. Here, the sin done.
So it's sorta mistranslated "confess", but that's essentially what's done. You don't add verbs like beg, promise you'll never do it again, penance. JUST NAME THE SIN. When I'm not sure, I usually think, "I'm arrogant, Dad" -- and then I'm back in fellowship -- the Brain was out but is now back in brainout.
And I was wondering about that... When I can't name sins, I just ask God to "generically" forgive me, because sometimes I sin in ignorance, and I can't remember them all...
Thieme said the holy spirit leaves you when you sin, but are "refilled" when you "admit sinning." But.. wouldn't saying the holy spirit becomes "covered" be better? Because it doesn't leave in whole, otherwise you wouldn't have eternal security (romans 8:9)
Ok, let me clarify, oh beloved devon. When you don't recall what sins (& I almost NEVER do), just think, "I've been arrogant, Dad!" or something like that. I think that thought a bizillion times a day. And "filling" is the Bible term for what the Spirit next does, not "cover" ("cover" references Cross atonement), see Eph5:18.
1Jn1:6-10, explains why. Greek verb "katharizw" (usu. translated "cleanse", but means "purify) is parallelled in both 1:7 and :9 to show you what the Spirit next does.
(Continued) John makes analogy to TEMPLE filled: for at the time he wrote, OT Temple was gone, & we are the Temple now (thus John ties back to Eph 2, also).
I will also need to address this issue as well.But meanwhile answer this.For 1500 years when there was no english bible many have been spiritual babies or retards since they could not know of 1jn?
Third, 1 John is but one verse on the principle. In OT it was forever known. That's why they did the sacrifices. The same idea is stated 100's of times in Bible, OT & NT. RCC taught everyone to name their sins -- but told them to name it to the priest: lol, not the Right Person! So during Dark Ages when the RCC kidnapped Bible so folks couldn't get it (unless rich or monk or 'connected'), still everyone knew. I knew as a child, before I could read Bible. It's instinctive to admit fault to God.
Third, I just did a BibleWorks' search on NASB's "forgiveness of sins" - title for the doctrine in NT - got these verses: Matt9:6; 26:28; Mk1:4; 2:10; Lk1:77; 3:3; 5:24; 7:49; 24:47; Acts5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Rom3:25; Eph1:7; Col1:14; Heb9:22; 1Jn1:9; 2:12.
I now think the interpretation problem revolves around DEFINITION. A two-pronged definition seems to be Bible's own. But in theology's history, seems the debate has been to pick one or the other prong? 'Look forward to your input!
As I said, El Proximo, I'm done explaining things to you. You keep not understanding 1John and are carnal. God will have to spank you to wake you up. My due diligence disclosure to you is done.
I've heard people like you many many times over the decades, and I know what will happen to you if you don't wake up. But now I leave. Post anything you like, I won't respond anymore. God will.
brainouty 2 years ago
ElProximo, God will not impose on you. So you must believe to be saved. But your soul is still filled with wrong thinking. It must be replaced with Christ's thinking, & Spirit won't do that apart from your consent. So if you sin, You Refuse Consent.
He will not fill a defiled temple. That's why 1John is about FELLOWSHIP, not salvation. If you won't use 1John1:9, you are in the dark, per 1John1:8, 10.
It's how His payment is USED ON you, after salvation. God will answer you further, I'm done.
brainouty 2 years ago
Sigh, ElProximo, no one's saying you get paid anything. OF COURSE only Christ paid, OF COURSE God got paid. But how much of that payment APPLIES to you, which Isaiah 53:12 promises, requires your CONSENT. For it is an INHERITANCE aka 'promise' (both are Bible terms), and you have a right to elect against the will.
But you misinterpret the issues, misunderstand that by refusing 1John1:9 you are ONLY electing to be saved but NOT to grow up in Christ's Thinking. So you are saved, but retarded.
brainouty 2 years ago
ElProximo, I never said ALL our sins are blotted out at the cross. Others say that, but I didn't. Christ PAID FATHER for all sin on the cross. When we believe, the PRE-salvation sins were blotted out, and you need 1John1:9 for the post-salvation sins. God got paid, but salvation is an issue about the payment applying to YOU.
See why it's not a contradiction, now?
brainouty 2 years ago
This is elementary guys. Get busy sharing the gospel. 7 people die each second. You can bring them with you into the kingdom.
brian9monty 2 years ago
People who don't know Bible shouldn't be 'sharing' it. They mess up the issues. To say 'you can bring them with you' is one such misstatement of the Bible.
YOU don't bring anyone. God does all the work. So the issue is to first GROW UP yourself. God will make use of that, and of you, Eph2:10.
brainouty 2 years ago
ok now you want to break down my words? ok how about you can be obedient and spread the gospel, plant the seed, allow God to give the increase, instead of debating doctrine with other christians.
brian9monty 2 years ago
In your response, try not to be childishly insulting.
brian9monty 2 years ago
brian9monty, if you stop acting like a legalistic baby, I won't have to reprimand you in return.
brainouty 2 years ago
i voice my view, i get reprimanded. lol
I will just talk without getting personal.
brian9monty 2 years ago
Voicing your view is fine, brian9monty, you won't be censored. But when you misuse Bible, I have to call you on that. Other people are watching these comments.
If you didn't have 'potential', I'd just ignore you. But you have an interest in God which is not conventional, and that's a hopeful sign.
brainouty 2 years ago
brian9monty, you can't be obedient to the gospel if you don't learn the Bible. You believe, get saved, are a spiritual baby until you grow up on Word, Hebrews 5:11-6:12.
It's far better to learn doctrine than to spread a baby's idea of the Gospel. Too many babies in Christianity, and they mess up what the Gospel even IS. I wish they would shut up and learn, first. Then they wouldn't be helping so many to go to hell.
brainouty 2 years ago
God knows the heart. God looks at the heart. Confession is a part of continued repentance. verse 8 states we have sin. verse 9 states we must be putting to death this sinful flesh.(repentance) This is what john means. It is possible one can confess and not mean it. The next chapter says if we do sin, we have an advocate!...but.. Willful sin has no sacrifice.1 jn 3:9. You see? Its the heart.
brian9monty 2 years ago
All sin is willful, brian9monty. 1John3:9 doesn't say what you claim of it. You need to use 1John1:9 to get God's Brains and read it between sins, k?
No one in a state of sin can read Bible properly. That's why I call myself 'brainout', to remind me to use 1John1:9. It's breathing, so I use it like breathing.
brainouty 2 years ago
Be respectful! Ask me what I mean. What im saying is some sins are quick without thought, habitual, unknowing until done.They must be confessed and forsaken.
Then there are those with thought, done regardless, on purpose, ignoring the signs.Willful. These prove you are not His.
brian9monty 2 years ago
Okay, brian9monty, have you never willfully sinned since you believed in Christ? Sure you have. Sin is always a willful act, whether quick and below radar, or premeditated. You seem to regard only the latter as a problem. But there are two kinds: those sins so ingrained they are thoughtless habits; and those which are insisted upon. Both types were paid for on cross, as indeed all sin was paid for.
brainouty 2 years ago
You forgot about heb 10:26. There are not as many true christians as we think!!
brian9monty 2 years ago
Agreed, brian9monty. But don't confuse the Lord Lord unsaved with the saved who are carnal. Three types: unsaved thinking they are 'Christian', saved who are at the moment carnal, and saved who are using 1John1:9. The latter two will be in heaven post-death. Spiritual growth DEPENDS on regular use of 1John1:9.
brainouty 2 years ago
Unfortunately, your logic is faulty, and a straw horse....what if you forget to confess any one particular sin? Please study this for your self and let the Holy Spirit teach you, instead of depending on a human. With you line of thinking you are no different than the priest from Hebrews 10 doing that thing that can never make you perfect, while the one sacrifice 10:10 sanctified those that believe, then perfected forever them that are sanctified 10:14 and 10:17 sins I will remember NO more.
BakuganDanKuso 2 years ago
BakuganDanKuso, you need to see the first video called "Why We Need 1John1:9" which walks the viewer through the OT verses saying the same thing -- the Levitical sacrifices were NAME SIN SPECIFIC, and you put your hand on the animal, named your sin, and the priest slit its throat.
So I'll ignore your anti-Biblical interpretation, since you clearly are carnal, since you disavow use of 1John1:9. God will answer you further, not me.
brainouty 2 years ago
UPDATE, 9/28/08: I can't find anything to refute this video's conclusion, and only find verses to support it. We Christians confuse salvation with forgiveness post-salvation. Best to get my pastor's "Law of Double Punishment" series (no money ever requested) from rbthieme(dot)org. I wrote webpages on it, too. But you need authority, to see this.
brainouty 3 years ago
Basic idea is that your soul's consent is always required. Salvation is a one-shot deal, but post-salvation you must CONSTANTLY choose to live God's Way, or your own. Sin means you choose your own way, so your soul stays trashed up.
brainouty 3 years ago
So in a state of sin you are basically blaspheming the Work of the Cross if you don't name your sins. That's why 1Jn1:6-10 reads as it does. You find the same idea in Leviticus 28, Deut 28, 2Chron 7:14, the many OT verses where God says you must 'return' to Him. Those are all post-salv. So capital punishment results eventually, if 1Jn1:9 ISN'T used, 1Jn5:16, Hezekiah's and Manessah's repentence versus death, etc.
brainouty 3 years ago
So when the believer dies, he goes to heaven in any event. But as what? A spiritual retard, if he stopped using 1Jn1:9 while down here. And, while down here, he will experience ever-more-intense Divine Discipline UNTIL he uses 1Jn1:9. If he won't, then finally it's capital punishment, 1Jn5:16, Acts 5, etc.
brainouty 3 years ago
Yeah,any Christian should know this when Jesus gave us "The Lord's Prayer".....
aesthetictripp 3 years ago
Good point, aesthetictripp. I hadn't thought of that. Glad you brought it up!
brainouty 3 years ago
Yours was a good point too, I think us christians should work together to rule out all falsehood and get out story straight so we can stand united when the eccumenical/interfaith/newage movement attacks us,it's prophecied to happen and is already forming,may God be with us all as we rebuke false doctrines from ALL denominations.....
aesthetictripp 3 years ago
Well, aesthetictripp, getting the story straight in our own heads so we can learn God would be the goal. Else it's the gaol, being imprisoned in crusades with those who are also trapped by falsehood. :)
brainouty 3 years ago
So THAT'S why I was teling people "asking the forgiveness of sins comes AFTER salvation." (I was wondering why I was telling people that).
Now I know! It makes so much sense, the holy spirit connects the pieces together.
devonrose742 3 years ago
beloved devon rose, you don't ASK for forgiveness. Greek verb in 1Jn1:9 is homologew, and it's a courtroom verb means to admit by CITING. Here, the sin done.
So it's sorta mistranslated "confess", but that's essentially what's done. You don't add verbs like beg, promise you'll never do it again, penance. JUST NAME THE SIN. When I'm not sure, I usually think, "I'm arrogant, Dad" -- and then I'm back in fellowship -- the Brain was out but is now back in brainout.
brainouty 3 years ago
Okay so you don't ASK, you ADMIT.
And I was wondering about that... When I can't name sins, I just ask God to "generically" forgive me, because sometimes I sin in ignorance, and I can't remember them all...
Thieme said the holy spirit leaves you when you sin, but are "refilled" when you "admit sinning." But.. wouldn't saying the holy spirit becomes "covered" be better? Because it doesn't leave in whole, otherwise you wouldn't have eternal security (romans 8:9)
devonrose742 3 years ago
Ok, let me clarify, oh beloved devon. When you don't recall what sins (& I almost NEVER do), just think, "I've been arrogant, Dad!" or something like that. I think that thought a bizillion times a day. And "filling" is the Bible term for what the Spirit next does, not "cover" ("cover" references Cross atonement), see Eph5:18.
1Jn1:6-10, explains why. Greek verb "katharizw" (usu. translated "cleanse", but means "purify) is parallelled in both 1:7 and :9 to show you what the Spirit next does.
brainouty 3 years ago
(Continued) John makes analogy to TEMPLE filled: for at the time he wrote, OT Temple was gone, & we are the Temple now (thus John ties back to Eph 2, also).
brainouty 3 years ago
I will also need to address this issue as well.But meanwhile answer this.For 1500 years when there was no english bible many have been spiritual babies or retards since they could not know of 1jn?
ThirdProverb 4 years ago
Third, 1 John is but one verse on the principle. In OT it was forever known. That's why they did the sacrifices. The same idea is stated 100's of times in Bible, OT & NT. RCC taught everyone to name their sins -- but told them to name it to the priest: lol, not the Right Person! So during Dark Ages when the RCC kidnapped Bible so folks couldn't get it (unless rich or monk or 'connected'), still everyone knew. I knew as a child, before I could read Bible. It's instinctive to admit fault to God.
brainouty 4 years ago
Third, I just did a BibleWorks' search on NASB's "forgiveness of sins" - title for the doctrine in NT - got these verses: Matt9:6; 26:28; Mk1:4; 2:10; Lk1:77; 3:3; 5:24; 7:49; 24:47; Acts5:31; 10:43; 13:38; 26:18; Rom3:25; Eph1:7; Col1:14; Heb9:22; 1Jn1:9; 2:12.
I now think the interpretation problem revolves around DEFINITION. A two-pronged definition seems to be Bible's own. But in theology's history, seems the debate has been to pick one or the other prong? 'Look forward to your input!
brainouty 4 years ago