ad hoc explanations predicated upon YOU being enlightened to the "truth" (that alcohol is really totally undesirable) while everyone else is in the dark.
cynic, if I sounded hostile, it's because you didn't look like you had read what I had written or said before, and because you hadn't done your hw. eg. right now you still claim that I'm ignoring the possibility that my tastes are just different, even though I already exhausted that by posing my question to wine connoisseurs and and in the x2blnd studies.
So, it comes down to you telling me to prove the overwhelming scientific consensus. Sorry, but...
not only can't I link from youtube, the opposite view, yours, has become a sad joke at this point. All I can do is tell you to go to google and search for double blind wine research. If you can find data supporting your view *that* would be news.
And please: I know the difference between "is one this way" and "are all this way". I'm not as addicted to my biases as someone else here.
*I* went far out of my way to gain a taste for alcohol and query the experts. The whole time, I deliberately sought to find away to defend the theory that I'm wrong, that I just lack taste that other people have.
OTOH, how much time did you spend looking for disconfirmatory evidence? More or less than you spent posting here?
taste for alcohol and that people's seeming taste for it is just a facade supported by the need to conform socially. A question of existentials vs. universals ...
You have not convincingly proven by any means (except by unconvincing reference to an obscure study that I cannot independently interpret) that people's relationship with alcohol is NOT merely one of acquiring taste -- the burden of proof is on you to exhaust all simpler, more logical theories before we resort to ...
taste for alcohol and that people's seeming taste for it is just a facade supported by the need to conform socially. A question of existentials vs. universals ...
You have not convincingly proven by any means (except by unconvincing reference to an obscure study that I cannot independently interpret) that people's relationship with alcohol is NOT merely one of acquiring taste -- the burden of proof is on you to exhaust all simpler, more logical theories before we resort to ...
an argument than discover any deeper truth upon which we might both agree. You are the very definition of a Sophist (please look it up), if I have ever met one.
Again, my theory is elegant and simple, in that it does not require the world to be crazy nor does it hinge on the subjective personal experiences of the creator of the theory. It is more reasonable that there may exist A PERSON who does not "have a taste" for alcohol and cannot be acclimated, than to assume that NO ONE has a ...
Wow, it sounds like you're getting down-right hostile towards me. It surprises me that you don't even take your own chosen topic seriously enough to engage my points honestly, nor do you try to share with me the primary data (your interpretation of it is insufficient) from this bizarre double-blinded study that I only half-believe can really exist, as described. Instead, you captiously misinterpret my argument, assuming contradictions where none exists, as if you would just rather win ...
gustatory features that are, at the least, interesting. With continued exposure, the drinker grows more accustomed to the inherent bitterness of the substance and more attuned to these other qualities -- which is the essence of a so-called "acquired taste". Surely you can't deny the fact that the objects of acquired taste exist in this domain, as they do in all other domains, including food and television shows and personal acquaintances.
Of course it's possible to "acquire a taste" for something. However, it's possible to acquire a taste for anything. My point here is that
1) alcohol does no better than any randomly-tasting drink in causing acquired taste -- the detection of the subtleties you mentioned doesn't stand up to x2 blind testing
2) the "social proof" (*other* people revealing they like it) is the main source of its popularity, and
3) people are uniquely unable to notice their self-deception in this case
It sounds like you've assigned features (because those are really all just assertions or anecdotal observations, rather than fact) to alcohol that put it in the same class as any trend or object of fashion, in that you claim ppl like qualities about it that they can't detect when blinded to the true identity of the substance (not sure this is true), and that they like it (without knowing it) because other people seem to like it, too. If this were true, just like any fashion --
it would probably eventually go out of style. However, it hasn't. My theory operates at the level of a culture of drinking, mostly sustained by the pleasurable effects, but which gave rise to various different tasting alcohols, amongst which drinkers (having grown accustomed to the taste of EtOH itself) choose favorites, just like in any other domain. If you haven't at least been acclimated to the taste of EtOH, you're not at a point where you can choose a favorite, just like --
if you have fundamental objections to the notion of watching TV (because it requires you to sit in one place for 30-60 minutes and you don't like that), you're not at a point where you can make an informed decision about which programs are good or bad because they're all boring to you.
Let me see if I can summarize your brilliant insights:
1) I'm basing my conclusion solely on anecdote, even though I'm basing it on actual x2 blind tests you haven't followed.
2) Your explanation is that people like the pleasurable mental effects, which is exactly what I argue (and thus your claim that it would go out of fashion is invalid).
3) Despite having been drinking alcohol for 10 years, and having tried 60+ kinds I just haven't been "acclimated" yet.
convincingly disprove that people may have genuine fondness for particular types of alcohol or drinks. Just because I *like* something doesn't mean that I want to experience it constantly nor does it mean that I should prefer it to all other things, especially given the complexities of the substance. In your example, you've chosen something that is wholly sweet, but liquor is usually bitter (naturally unappealing) and must redeem itself (to most people, not you apparently) by having additional..
I think the sociological reasons that account for why people like or seem to like alcohol are complex, but they likely do include a degree of trend-following (in the case of wine's sudden upswing in popularity (cf. wine bars, etc) or beer micro-brewing) amongst some users. As you mentioned, I wouldn't rule out a "conditioned" response to the substance based on previously pleasurable experiences, but IMHO your example of people's preference for milkshakes over any alcoholic beverage does not ...
i dont like alcohol & i'm probably the only one in the world.
hatethtiloveu 8 months ago
Comment removed
hatethtiloveu 8 months ago
ad hoc explanations predicated upon YOU being enlightened to the "truth" (that alcohol is really totally undesirable) while everyone else is in the dark.
cynycMD 3 years ago
cynic, if I sounded hostile, it's because you didn't look like you had read what I had written or said before, and because you hadn't done your hw. eg. right now you still claim that I'm ignoring the possibility that my tastes are just different, even though I already exhausted that by posing my question to wine connoisseurs and and in the x2blnd studies.
So, it comes down to you telling me to prove the overwhelming scientific consensus. Sorry, but...
SilasX 3 years ago
not only can't I link from youtube, the opposite view, yours, has become a sad joke at this point. All I can do is tell you to go to google and search for double blind wine research. If you can find data supporting your view *that* would be news.
And please: I know the difference between "is one this way" and "are all this way". I'm not as addicted to my biases as someone else here.
Remember, ...
SilasX 3 years ago
*I* went far out of my way to gain a taste for alcohol and query the experts. The whole time, I deliberately sought to find away to defend the theory that I'm wrong, that I just lack taste that other people have.
OTOH, how much time did you spend looking for disconfirmatory evidence? More or less than you spent posting here?
SilasX 3 years ago
taste for alcohol and that people's seeming taste for it is just a facade supported by the need to conform socially. A question of existentials vs. universals ...
You have not convincingly proven by any means (except by unconvincing reference to an obscure study that I cannot independently interpret) that people's relationship with alcohol is NOT merely one of acquiring taste -- the burden of proof is on you to exhaust all simpler, more logical theories before we resort to ...
cynycMD 3 years ago
taste for alcohol and that people's seeming taste for it is just a facade supported by the need to conform socially. A question of existentials vs. universals ...
You have not convincingly proven by any means (except by unconvincing reference to an obscure study that I cannot independently interpret) that people's relationship with alcohol is NOT merely one of acquiring taste -- the burden of proof is on you to exhaust all simpler, more logical theories before we resort to ...
cynycMD 3 years ago
an argument than discover any deeper truth upon which we might both agree. You are the very definition of a Sophist (please look it up), if I have ever met one.
Again, my theory is elegant and simple, in that it does not require the world to be crazy nor does it hinge on the subjective personal experiences of the creator of the theory. It is more reasonable that there may exist A PERSON who does not "have a taste" for alcohol and cannot be acclimated, than to assume that NO ONE has a ...
cynycMD 3 years ago
Wow, it sounds like you're getting down-right hostile towards me. It surprises me that you don't even take your own chosen topic seriously enough to engage my points honestly, nor do you try to share with me the primary data (your interpretation of it is insufficient) from this bizarre double-blinded study that I only half-believe can really exist, as described. Instead, you captiously misinterpret my argument, assuming contradictions where none exists, as if you would just rather win ...
cynycMD 3 years ago
gustatory features that are, at the least, interesting. With continued exposure, the drinker grows more accustomed to the inherent bitterness of the substance and more attuned to these other qualities -- which is the essence of a so-called "acquired taste". Surely you can't deny the fact that the objects of acquired taste exist in this domain, as they do in all other domains, including food and television shows and personal acquaintances.
cynycMD 3 years ago
Of course it's possible to "acquire a taste" for something. However, it's possible to acquire a taste for anything. My point here is that
1) alcohol does no better than any randomly-tasting drink in causing acquired taste -- the detection of the subtleties you mentioned doesn't stand up to x2 blind testing
2) the "social proof" (*other* people revealing they like it) is the main source of its popularity, and
3) people are uniquely unable to notice their self-deception in this case
SilasX 3 years ago
It sounds like you've assigned features (because those are really all just assertions or anecdotal observations, rather than fact) to alcohol that put it in the same class as any trend or object of fashion, in that you claim ppl like qualities about it that they can't detect when blinded to the true identity of the substance (not sure this is true), and that they like it (without knowing it) because other people seem to like it, too. If this were true, just like any fashion --
cynycMD 3 years ago
it would probably eventually go out of style. However, it hasn't. My theory operates at the level of a culture of drinking, mostly sustained by the pleasurable effects, but which gave rise to various different tasting alcohols, amongst which drinkers (having grown accustomed to the taste of EtOH itself) choose favorites, just like in any other domain. If you haven't at least been acclimated to the taste of EtOH, you're not at a point where you can choose a favorite, just like --
cynycMD 3 years ago
if you have fundamental objections to the notion of watching TV (because it requires you to sit in one place for 30-60 minutes and you don't like that), you're not at a point where you can make an informed decision about which programs are good or bad because they're all boring to you.
cynycMD 3 years ago
Let me see if I can summarize your brilliant insights:
1) I'm basing my conclusion solely on anecdote, even though I'm basing it on actual x2 blind tests you haven't followed.
2) Your explanation is that people like the pleasurable mental effects, which is exactly what I argue (and thus your claim that it would go out of fashion is invalid).
3) Despite having been drinking alcohol for 10 years, and having tried 60+ kinds I just haven't been "acclimated" yet.
Sorry, no dice.
SilasX 3 years ago
convincingly disprove that people may have genuine fondness for particular types of alcohol or drinks. Just because I *like* something doesn't mean that I want to experience it constantly nor does it mean that I should prefer it to all other things, especially given the complexities of the substance. In your example, you've chosen something that is wholly sweet, but liquor is usually bitter (naturally unappealing) and must redeem itself (to most people, not you apparently) by having additional..
cynycMD 3 years ago
I think the sociological reasons that account for why people like or seem to like alcohol are complex, but they likely do include a degree of trend-following (in the case of wine's sudden upswing in popularity (cf. wine bars, etc) or beer micro-brewing) amongst some users. As you mentioned, I wouldn't rule out a "conditioned" response to the substance based on previously pleasurable experiences, but IMHO your example of people's preference for milkshakes over any alcoholic beverage does not ...
cynycMD 3 years ago