The Holy Land: To Whom Does It Belong? (Hebrew)

[Liran45]

אני ממש התרשמתי מחוכמתו של ישעיהו ליבוביץ' זצ"ל(ולא, לא התבלבלתי, כי בשבילי הוא צדיק יסוד עולם).

הוא היה אחת מנקודות השפיות האחרונות בציבור הדתי. אני אחזק את דבריו עם פסוק כ"ג בפרק כ"ה בספר ויקרא: "וְהָאָרֶץ, לֹא תִמָּכֵר לִצְמִתֻת--כִּי-לִי, הָאָרֶץ: כִּי-גֵרִים וְתוֹשָׁבִים אַתֶּם, עִמָּדִי.".

ומי שימשיך לקרוא מהפסוק הזה, ואילך, יקרא שאלוהים אומר שהארץ הזו שלנו בערבון מוגבל. אני גם ממליץ לקרוא את פרשת שופטים בספר דברים.

אני לא ימני ולא שמאלני. אני מרכז. איזון זה הדבר הכי טוב!

[HABARBUR]

מדהים לקרוא פה תגובות שטנה ושנאה. השנה היא 1982, לפני 30 (!) שנים ופרופ' לייבוביץ' ז"ל צפה בדיוק את שיהיה. הכיבוש משחית אותנו כחברה ואת סיכויי ההישרדות שלנו. בדיוק מה שקרה ועודנו קורה

בנוגע לטענות המשיחיות ההזויות של אלה המאמינים שזו ארצו של העם היהודי מסביר לייבוביץ' באופן חד משמעי - "לשם הארץ ומלואה". עכשיו אנא מכם, מי שמכם לקבוע מהו רצונו של השם?

[pistolro777]

מעמד לא ראוי לאדם ראוי

האם כשאדון זה מדבר מישהו יכול לדבר לאדם זה יש הכישרון והיכולת כשאדם כמו הפרופסור ליבו מדבר אני היתי מקשיב כי כל הפרעה פוגעת וחותכת בגוף הקשר

ולענינינו לכל הביקורתים על ליבו

רואים אנחנו שהמנגנון הולך בדרכו של ליבו

על ידי מסירת השטחים לפלסתנים ועוד

אבל כיון שכבודו לא עימנו נשארנו עם שאלות שאין להם תשובה כיון שסביבנו טיפשים שלא שאלו וכיון שליבו לא על פני האדמה

המנגנון מנסה וטועה ולא צפויות הצלחות כיון שהראיה היא לא ב360 מעלות

[nomaed]

A lot of respect to Leibowitz to have been able to reconcile the cognitive dissonance he must have had while trying to view the world through rational eyes, but still basing everything of primitive mythology. He was lucky that scripture can be twisted and reinterpreted for pretty much any need. Otherwise, he'd either go insane, or lose his faith.

[MartianSanta]

Leibowitz was so smart, he was a true prophet. the only thing he got wrong is the assumption the world would support the Arabs, and now they support the Jews. now the Palestinians want two states solutions and the Israelis want to annex the entire country.

[boliusb]

Can anybody Israel Eldad's words? and the questioners?

[rafishalom1]

אלדד הבין היטב את מה שליבוביץ לא הבין והמציאות תומכת באלדד.

[matan55m]

זקנים שמאלנים עוכרי ישראל

יאאלה דב חנין לך איתם לגיהנום

[perrik7]

סתם יהודי זקן ומנוון חשיבה

הארץ כבר מחולקת

ירדן שלהם אי שלנו

מי שרוצה, שישאר פה לשרת את היהודים

כפליט פולשתיני לא זכויות אזרח

[totoceio]

דבריו של ליבוביץ  מחכימים ומאירים

[goodheartlove]

Very strange that some SELECTED parts were not translated

[LampPlaceThing]

@goodheartlove I don't think the uploader could place more words on the space given....

ANYWAYS I fear God, what about you? if you are secular, disregard my question.

[brazilian777able]

@farfishe I invite you to know HIM who healed me. HE gave all of us Commands in which all of us broke. I repented and called on HIM who created the heaven and the earth and to my shock HE SHOW UP. try it! what do you have to lose? you've have tried everything else. HE is not a respector of persons.

[moti4love]

לייבוביץ סבור שכיבוש ברוטאלי הוא שווה-ערך אל "נתינה" של הבורא. לכן הוא מדמה כי נתינת הארץ אל עם ישראל זהה אל נתינת הארץ אל הטורקים והרומאים.

אבל, נתינה ביהדות משמעותה צורת קניין אין מתנה ללא קניין. כדי כדי לזכות בבעלות, אף של נתינה, זקוקים לקניין חוקי.

ליהודים ניתן קניין חוקי מאת האלוהים על ארץ ישראל. לא אבל לא לכנענים שהיו לפנינו ולא לרומאים שכבשו אותנו.

לכן, אין זה נכון שהבורא "נתן" את הארץ לגויים מבחינת בעלות, אלא איפשר את כיבושה הלא חוקי..

בעלות ה' על הארץ היא הלגטימציה לנתינה.

[Kurtlane]

The insanity of it all keeps bothering me.

There are birds called swifts. They live almost entirely in the air. They feed in air, they sleep in the air. But even they have to land to make nests and have babies. And the moment they try to do that, they get territorial: they fight each other, cheat on each other, you name it. And some lose and have no progeny.

All animals are like this. People very much included. Plants too are like this.

I learned it in the first grade.

[Kurtlane]

Finally, after hearing the American and Arabic songs about land, how about listening to the Hatiqva:

watch?v=syUSmEbGLs4

[Kurtlane]

Perhaps someone forgot to sing this song to Leibowitz:

watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s

And here are Arabs singing about Bladi (please ignore the Russian subttitles). Bladi is Arabic for "my land", "my country":

watch?v=kGlNbXGG2ZU

I wonder whether Leibowitz would tell them what he told Jews here. Or is it, as always, that only Jews get this bs?

[Kurtlane]

Leibowitz: "what is the right of Swedish people to Sweden? The answer is that they have no right to Sweden."

How can someone with no connection to Sweden, no Swedish ancenstry, no Swedish citizenship, not living in Sweden, say such a thing?

Who the hell is he to make a judgement like this? What mind-boggling arrogance.

[eranlevy1]

@Kurtlane you're joking right? no way you could actually be offended because he used Sweden as an example to illustrate the universal point that no people have a right to any country. you are surely joking. No way you didn't get that. Please tell me you are joking.

[Kurtlane]

@eranlevy1, no, dear, I'm not joking. Since I am not Swedish, I'll leave it to Swedes to be offended. But the "universal point" here is idiotic. Of course people have rights. Beginning with the right to live. And people live on the ground, which means they need ground to stand on. This is where right to country comes from.

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

I wish Leibowitz were joking. I wish I could bring him up over the ocean on a helicopter, shove him into thin air and say, "OK, Leibowitz, live without a country!"

"You have to be an intellectual to believe such nonsense. No ordinary man could be such a fool."

[eranlevy1]

@Kurtlane wow. ok. you seem to have just missed his point entirely. But there's nothing I can do as I can't put it any clearer than he does. 

[Kurtlane]

@eranlevy1, don't worry, I got the point very well. It's just that I don't buy it.

[Kurtlane]

Yeshayahu Leibowitz is the inventor of the phrase "Judeo-Nazi."

Apparently that was too much even for Jew-haters. The prase was modified into "Zio-Nazi."

Here is someone in Ahmadinejad's entourage shouting it at Elie Wiesel:

watch?v=zV3rw_QOD7U

Why would anyone talk to Leibowitz? It's like talking to a toilet.

[dakhat31]

I saw many interviews of Prof Leibowitz..I just love it. but I don't understand Hebrew so.... so frustating...any word of this man is great! Words of wisdom.

[brazilian777able]

I've been heal of glaucoma I was half blind and total blindness was taken place but while I was in praise and worship in a Christian church I saw a hand healing me. I was worshiping the only one I learn from my parents Jesus Christ whom now I understand is Yeshua who is also YHVH. Love is the only dimenssion in which satan can not understand. Fight thru prayer. It is all Spiritual Warfare.

[brazilian777able]

Israel belongs to G-d!!!! and HIS children!!!!

[farfishe]

@brazilian777able the real god doesn't have children he has slaves,

[simonstadin]

Swedes have all right to Sweden, end of discussion!!!

[Hamilton111111]

@simonstadin

yes and palestina to the palestinians!

[osufritz]

@Hamilton111111 - and Israel / Judea for the Jews as it was called long before the terms Palestine was invented.

[osufritz]

@Hamilton111111 - and Israel / Judea for the Jews as it was called long before the terms Palestine was invented.

[daledheyalef]

Leib last words: The difficulties of such a division will be, from all perspectives, tremendous. ( i dont know if Leibowitz means one state or two state solution, although im pretty sure leibowitz is a proponent of the one sate solution).

[marinata01]

daledheyalef , I put your translation in the info data (see right above). Many thanks!!!!

[WeAreAllLost2]

@marinata01 יש לך טעות קריטית בתרגום. אתה כותב This relation is no deeper than any legal right והתרגום הנכון הוא בדיוק להפך: This relation is deeper than any legal right.

[WeAreAllLost2]

@marinata01 יש לך טעות קריטית בתרגום. אתה כותב This relation is no deeper than any legal right והתרגום הנכון הוא בדיוק להפך: This relation is deeper than any legal right.

[nethyc]

@daledheyalef

His perspective is articulated from 3:40 - 4:30

- Two choices, the third is nonexistent!

- Total War. The entire world will back the arab side.

- The alternative is partition to two states. I know, as do everyone else that this is not rational and it is not right/just. The difficulties following from such a partition will be tremendous. But, history cannot be changed.

[daledheyalef]

Leib cont.: should/can be chosen. And there is no third! The majority of the foolish among us are attached to a third option that does not exist. The first option is war until total annihilation. And in regrding this conflict, the entire world is on the side of the arabs. The alternative to this horrifying perspective is division of the land between two nations

[daledheyalef]

Leib cont.: rights, namely judges. On personal knowledge/beliefs you cannot argue. (points to man who asked questions, says stuff i dont understund and then:) This not just between you and the arab, rather it is between the Israeli nation and the Palestinian nation who are both living in a situation where both are living by the personal belief that the land is theirs. Everyone must ask: well what now then? there are two options. That is to say really one option, only one of the two

[daledheyalef]

Leib cont.: people to Sweden? The answer is that they have no right to Sweden. However, eight million swedes live by the personal (lit. in their souls) knowledge that this land is the land of their nation. That is the relation of the Swedish people to Sweden. This relation is no deeper than any legal right. When there are legal rights you can make judgements, you can argue. We all know that there is an established group that make a living from this, arguing and making judgement on

[daledheyalef]

Frist Guy cont: plow land that belongs to me". What do I tell this Arab who I am supposed to be living with in peace? I want there to be a day that he will sit with me as a friend rather than contemplate my destruction.

Leibowitz: (roughly, he uses "big words" sorry if its not completely accurate) no nation has a right to any land. I am not only speaking on the right of jews to israel or the right of palestinians to the land they call palestine. I am asking: what is the right of Swedish

[daledheyalef]

First Guy: It is an issue close to our hearts, related to zionism. I come from a

moshav here, close to Maalot. We have land which 30 years ago were occupied by

the same Ishmaelites that this man (looks back) hates, and I am supposed to

answer this Ishmaelite friend who tells me 'this land which you plow, i occupied

it 30 yrs ago' in a friendly way he says it, "how do you explain the fact that

you are plowing it now, and sometimes by my labor, you pay me or my friends to

[marinata01]

daledheyalef , your translation was cut because youtube dosen't allow more than certain words. could you pm it to me?

[daledheyalef]

done

[daledheyalef]

@marinata01

i sent it did you get it?

[TheIraq4life]

wtf no subtitals?wtf man

[TRUTHTHIRSTY1]

Im a believer in Christ. There is no question that the Holy land belongs to those of the Jewish faith. Cant wait for the new temple to be built.

[kobietheonlyone]

this footage from 1980

[omritheprice]

hebre!!!

where can we see the whole thing????????? this is a great debate!!!!

long live leibowitz!

[michal7h]

The basic statment by Pro Leibowitz is that no nation has any right over a land, but only the preception/consiousness that it does.

[isralien23]

People should translate its one of the best debates I saw.

[C1etus]

subs will be great, because what Leibowitz says regards all man kind.

completely philosophical.

[jugganaut26]

English subs, please.

[shiamuslimforcongres]

These people mock Eldad is so wrong! He knew, he was, and still is the way forward! I understand the why, but at least be graceful about it..

[Elvenheim]

No subtitles... What's the point? who does it serve then...

May be interesting. People need to know.

[CaptainBluebear08]

Subtitle, and I'll subscribe.