I own a 2v, and have a 4v that i'm going to play with later, these engines are heavy duty they don't need alot to make them run look at the ports on a 4v you don't dare port these heads for the street. the connecting rods are a work of art. I'm not sure who makes the best after market intake for the 2v?. My plans for now for the 2v are 4 barrel,aluminum intake, electronic ignition, mabe headers.
well yea im a ford fan, but im not one of those idiots thatcall holdens shit on a regular basis, so yea the holden vs ford thing is bogus. and i agree wtf would you debadge a holden, its almost people want o hide the fact its aussie
@Boots3962 to be honest mate im jack of hearing FORD and HOLDEN supporters crapping on about ALL AUSSIE cars holden is owned by GM they run chev engines and FORD is an american company, ford AUS their parent company is ford CANADA!!! its all offshore!! im a holden man but neither are 100% aussie
@HouseOfHorsePowerInc i totally agree with you. but the vehicles have been created (minus the engine block, not inclusing pistons cams ect,) are created in australia. just cause you have italian background in you, and your born in america, doesnt make you italian. might have small part of america/canada/japan ect, but to me designed tuned and sold only in australia makes it australian.
@Boots3962 yeah i can see what you mean, still dont get why holden gets bagged so much for running chevs motor its a commo sold only here! GM are using AUS's design and turning them into pontiac GTO's. cant stand when ppl put the chev badge on a commo aswell
@boss351dude Clevelands's are a mid block engine which is not a small block or big block, they made the cylinder heads the same as the windsor engines which allowed people to bolt on cleveland heads on to a windsor block hence the boss 302.
@Chevymonster203 Not really - you cannot bolt a cleveland head onto a windsor wiothout modding it. You have to drill out the cleveland head to allow coolant to pass into the windsor. The cleveland heads are canted valve - the windsors are straight. The cleveland is a small block - it uses the small block bell housing. Also, there are 3 types of true cleveland heads - 2v,3v and 4v.The 2v and 4v are vintage pieces and 3v use 2v ports and 4v quench type combustion chambers and are new in the game.
@Brentelec the 351 cleveland is still considered a small block, no its not the same engine family as the windsor but both the 351 windsor and 351 cleveland have the same 4 in. bore and 3.50 in. stroke as im sure you know..eitherway its most definetly not a big block
@vans1107 I know people refer to it as such, but after the bore stroke and bore spacing there are a lot of differences. Lots call M and the 400 big blocks. which is stupid. They (351c,M,400) came to be later than the real "small block" so being that they are different they are not the smallblock. That term was already taken by the windsor engines 255,260,289,302,351w, which came to production some 6 years prior to the cleveland.
Just one question for a timi French ! Mercury Grand marquis's engine : It's a 351W ford engine, isn't it ? It's a good engine ? How many hp have this engine ?
Ford never referred to their engines as small-block or big-block. Those are Chevy terms. At least, Ford didn't in the 60's or 70's. They might have used those terms in the past few years.
The 289, 302, 351W, and 351C were all comparable to a small block Chevy, though. The only difference is the 351C uses heads similar to a BBC.
It is a stretch to call the 351C a BB, especially when it is physically smaller than a SBC. What about a 302 Boss? BB? Of course not.
windsor was made for trucks vans and other not so sporty cars, both windsor and clevland are small bocks. but you would have too spend some money on the windsor to get it to do what a factory clevland would do. the biggest diferrence is the heads. 351m was the biggest of the 3, but still not so much a sports motor. not saying you cant beef up windsor or a moddified but the clevland was the best of the 3.
351 C's used to cost crazy money to build. I had a '71 Mustang that I built up the original engine, Dart Heads w/BBC valves, .695 lift cam, single carb and dyno'd at 647 hp. Never could get enough carb for this engine...finally put a 1050 on it and what a difference that made. Ahh, the good old days...
There are plenty of performance parts for the cleveland. It's not that expensive either. I own a cleveland, and have owned many chev's. and W's. Trust me there is just as much stuff for the cleveland as other engines, you just have to know where to shop.
Depending on what year. The GT version in 70' had it standard, it was a 2 barrell with a 4barrell option. I damn near bought a 71 Torino GT back in 92' with 48,000 miles on it. I kick myself daily for letting it go.
im a beginner to all this but i have a 351c in my Galaxie 500 fastback, sound nothing like this beast but im still proud of it. What headers do you have? (like i said im all new to this) I cant find any headers for my galaxie but i found out i can use headers from a Roush Mustang, unless anyone has any suggestions?
Try headers for a Torino. Or conversion headers for a pre-69 Mustang. They have the smallest compartment that ready made headers are made for. Or get some Sanderson shorty headers.
all ford motor blocks from 390 up are from the same casting and i have no clue what every bodys aruging about but its the same block but differnt everything else
Not really since you can't fit 351C heads to a W or 302 without machining.Bore spacing would be the same since the block is only different in that the C is larger and came with 4 bolt mains, because of it capability to rev higher.Bell housing patterns were the same for many engines since the C6 Could fit anything from a 302 to a 351 to a 390 to a 428/429 and a 460.
what exactly do you have to machine??? youre talking out of your ass. only thing is to put in the frost plugs in the heads. edelbrock even makes an intake for the "clevor" engine. 428/429 are 2 VERY different engines. they should not be slashed as if to say they are the same. 351M,400M,429,460 share the same bellhousing. looks like the smallblock but larger. 390,428 are FE pattern and are WAY different than either of the windsor/cleveland pattern or the M/385 series bellhousing.
Brentelec you do have to do some machining to put the cleveland heads on a 351 windsor. i own a machine shop and just put 351 cleveland heads on a windsor and i used the cleveland pistons. but i had to put the pistons in the lathe and face .014 thousands off the face of the pistons. and works like a dream. jokes on the one that pulls up beside this 351 Windsor!! Hope this info will be useful to you. by doing this it made the windsor have a .ooo deck without cutting the block also!!
exactly so you dont have to machine the block or heads like i said. lathing down the cleveland pistons is just to save money on buying new pistons. i too know what machining is all about my dad owns a machine shop so i've been around it my whole life. also you SHOULD be decking the block so its square side to side and front to back. that stuff is all regular block prep and should be done to every engine during any rebuild.
no not even close. 390's are an FE block. they share nothing in common with any other ford engine family. 332,352,360,361,390,391,406,410,427,428 are FE's 370,429,460 are "385 series engines"
those are the common ones there are also older engines like the 462, 477, 534 which are MEL block and SD blocks.
The 351 is part of the 221, 260, 289 and 302 small-block engine family that debuted in 1962 when the Fairlane was downsized to an intermediate car. The 351 is actually 352 CID but FoMoCo changed the number to 351 to avoid confusion with the original 352 FE big-block. Ford forever! The Blue Oval rules! Screw Chevy and Mopar!
@Brentelec I hate to tell you!!! The 351 Cleveland has a smaller block than the Windsor. 9.2 deck compared to a 9.5 deck. The 335 series are small blocks, but the 351M/400 has the Taller block and the 460 bellhousing. The 351C is by itself in that respect because it has the small block bellhousing! If its a big block why can you take the heads off of it and bolt on a 302?!!
From Wikipedia even, The Ford 335 engine family were a group of small-block V8 engines built by the Ford Motor Company between 1970 and 1982. The significance of the Numerals '335' designated to this series of Small block Ford V8 engines is relatively unknown. Also it's genius[jeen-yuhs]
@1979shovelhead you are quoting from wikipedia? that shows how little you know.
Dont coach me on a typing mistake, as you replied to a comment over a year old. The 335 designation is most certainly relatively known for those who know anything about Ford v8's. It IS as common as the 385 designation for the Lima engines. Maybe learn from a reliable source before spouting your limited knowledge.
@Brentelec, who cares if it is over a year old. That's the internet buddy. As for wikipedia, the only reason your putting down the contents is because it shows your wrong. As to the 335 designation, if you would have read the complete sentence, it doesn't say that the series itself is unknown, but for what the "335" itself stands for. Maybe you need to go back to school? .As for a Reliable source, it clearly isn't you slappy. As for your "typing" mistake, I'll coach you as i damn well see fit
@1979shovelhead So, because you and wikipedia dont know what the 335 stands for, that it could not be possible for the 351C, M and 400 to be called 335? Instead you choose to incorrectly tag it as a "smallblock" in ignorance. Also, if you are one of those guys who think M stands for midland, you are terribly mistaken. They were NEVER casted in Midland, MI
@Brentelec The 351 cleveland is a smallblock,its block height (9.2")is lower then the 351w(9.5")so the block is 3/10th of inch shorter on the the windsor the 351m400 is considered by many to be a big block since it has a 10.2" deck height which is close to the 460 deck height.Cleavland and boss 302 just look big and wide because of the big canted valve heads.
Sounds good. I'm in the process of getting 351M, gunna shod it with Edelbrocks new Aluminum 351C heads(look up part number #61629 on Edelbrocks website). It's also getting a Roller cam conversion.
Oh yeah and the Windsor's run slightly longer rods too I think, so it gives it a better rod stroke ratio than the Cleveland. Theoretically it should be safe to reve higher than the C, and has longer dwell at TDC. The W block has a better oiling system than the C, and better aftermarket parts like cranks, rods, etc. W block C heads all the way. The C is a great engine by itself though, I love it. You practically get racing heads from the factory.
What part am I making up? "Clevor" (windsor bottom+Cleveland heads) engines were a very hot engine, before they made a good selection of aftermarket heads for Windsor blocks. In fact there are heads, based off the C now made to direct bolt onto W. And it's a fact that the mains are bigger, and the rods are longer in the W. And there are not many parts made for the Cleveland, compared to the Windsor... So I really don't see how I made anything up.
That's true to an extent, higher bearing speed is bad... But extra strength is good. There's a reason why some small block race motors use big block main journals. I'm just saying it was a popular thing to do and made good power. Personally, I think I'd take a W over a C for a serious performance engine just because of the fact that there's tons of aftermarket parts for the W and not so much for the C at least by comparison. (Don't believe me? Look in a summit catalog sometime LOL)
Scummit whatever. Look at what Ford used in NASCAR the last 30 years. It was a hybrid of W and C. Bearing sizes until recently where 351C. Now they even run smaller stuff. Also look what engines have won Engine Masters recently. The heads are what make a cleveland really special. Worked 4v 351C iron heads will outperform most aluminum W heads and all the factory stuff. Go aluminum on a C - AFD or CHI and you crush the windsor stuff. Crank diameter only matters with weak Chevy's.
I don't know about nascar but considering they run flat out up to 9000 rpms is it? For hours at a time bearing speed is going to be a big concern. Clearly stock C heads are better than stock W's. I'm just saying real world a W is better because it's tougher, and had tons of parts to build them available at reasonable prices. C's are rare & expensive to build. Worked heads is nice, but you can get W style heads that flow great, or even get C heads for a W block. TrickFlow makes some I think.
Look it up, all three 351's W, C, & M have a 4 inch bore & 3.5 inch stroke. The blocks are a little different. The C had 2.760 mains while the W is 3 inch mains. Best combo is modified 351C Aussie 2V heads on a 90's 351W roller cam block. Get the advantages of a roller cam+more selection because 351w's and 302's use the same cam journals so any 5.0 cam will work. Plus it's a tougher block in general+3in mains stonger crank. Then of course the big ass valves+ports of the Cleveland head.
from what I know of, it isnt the angle of the block. Both windsor and clevelands have 90deg. Its the shape of the heads that make the windsor look smaller.
I tpp thought the windsors had smaller V until I had a closer look.
The Windsor is just a bored out 302. thats why its smaller. :P Cleveland is much larger, way more stable, and produces plenty of hp and torque at high rpm, and handles a supercharger like no other engine. The Windsor is nice and light compared, making it handle better in turns, great for street racing, but other 350+ powered cars take the advantage in drag.
351 windsor has 9.5" deck height, as opposed to 289 & 302 which have (i think) 8.5" deck height. the bores in most small block fords with OHV are 4" stock. so 351 windsor is actually much bigger than 351 Cleveland which has 9.2" deck height. BTW cleveland only produces more HP and torque in high RPM in american 4V head motors. 2V americans have better low end power, and australian 4V heads give the best of both worlds.
Not exactly correct...the 351-w is not a ''bored out 302'' the 289,302,351 all shared 4 inch bores. The 351-w had a 1/2 inch longer stroke (3.50) also the block is not the same as a 289,302 since it had a longer stroke the decks had to be raised up 1/2 inch, thus makeing it taller and wider. only heads,and cam(rewired for 302 firing order) can be swapped..windsor is I think the better motor, cheaper to build and can be bored and stroked up to a 482...
408...wow u will be surprised what u can do with a 351-W...just to name a few..can range from 351,392,408,427,460 or yes a 482..granted the 482 is strictly race and require a Deck plate, and can produce 1400+ Hp all motor
lol alot of the argument here is being caused by misunderstandings. there is no big block/small block with Ford. That's a Chevy term. Ford used more than 2 sizes of blocks. Now I'm pretty sure the Cleveland has a wider intake due to being a 90 degree V as opposed to the Windsor which is less. And the bore/stroke numbers are reversed between the 2. Windsor has a longer stroke and the cleveland a bigger bore. But both equal to 351 CID. I'd prefer a build Windsor for dragracing.
i can refute that. all small block fords (theyve always been called small blocks in australia) have 4" bores. the stroke and bore in windsors and clevelands are the same. most of the difference lies in oiling and cooling, and block shape (cleveland is longer cos it partially covers the timing gears)
the windsor family of engines are all built with a 60degree 'v'between the cylinders, the cleveland family (351,390,429(?), and 460) are wider because they are 90 degree blocks.
with that in mind, imagine the fun I had stuffing a 351c into a 65 mustang, the shock towers were ugly by the time I got done making room for the motor.
I agree. To the Chevy people, do your research or keep your comments about your Chevys. Clevelands had better stock heads back then than the Chevy performance heads have now. I know this because I have a friend that just bought some Chevy heads. No comparison.
wtf, never heard of 390 429 and 460 being in cleveland family. in my mind, engines arent of the same family unless the share similar dimensions or tech or both. and from experience, 460 is not in the same family as 351 c, i know because i tried to put one in an XY falcon, which came with a Cleveland. not alot of fun putting it in but it worked. now it is fun
The 351C is a small bell same as 289/302/351W. Also the 335 series engines were the 351 Cleveland and the 351M/400, which were also cleveland designs.
If you love clevelands, you should visit showoffyourwheels dot com. There is a psycho there who has wedged a 351 into a 60 series land cruiser in their featured vehicles and more cars section. Check it out.
Then maybe he should have chose his words better if that is the case by saying that the cleveland is a BIGGER block & not use the term BIG block when comparing to the windsor.
Is that out of a factory 302 block because I'd be interested to see the combo to get that cui out of the factory block. I know it's been done plenty times before but it's always interesting to see how others have done it.
matbe im pretty sure ull find the clevo is a big block and a windsor is small i own both and thew block size of the two the windsor is consideragly smaller sorry to burst ya bubble dude
Mate I suggest you reread what you just typed and get back in your bubble. The windsor/cleveland are not considered as BIG BLOCKS, So you own both big f***ing deal you're not the only one in this world who has both. If you're so clued up go and get a factory 429/460 block and then tell me if you still want to make half assed comments.
Just to add another bit to this debate, I also have a 400C which is basically a tall deck cleveland. Would you consider this a small block or big block.
Hey, Im in the process of hotting up my 400m and was wondering if u have actually done anything with that or whether it is just the 351c you have altered. k thanks
The Ford 351 Windsor Block was a evolution of the 289/302 Windsor Block Series, the Cleavland was supposed to be the replacement of it, Started as a 335 they bored it out to a 351. Ironically the Windsor outlasted the Cleavland....
The 351c was Fords secret weapon. Myself beat alot of fast cars with a 1970 stang and a 1970 Torino. The intake ports on the 4v motor are so huge, you can fit 4 fingers into them. You are building one scary ride!
you guys are all bitching about not finding parts? thats what makes it rare/ different.....
BowHunt1229 1 month ago
I own a 2v, and have a 4v that i'm going to play with later, these engines are heavy duty they don't need alot to make them run look at the ports on a 4v you don't dare port these heads for the street. the connecting rods are a work of art. I'm not sure who makes the best after market intake for the 2v?. My plans for now for the 2v are 4 barrel,aluminum intake, electronic ignition, mabe headers.
tydodge 3 months ago
well yea im a ford fan, but im not one of those idiots thatcall holdens shit on a regular basis, so yea the holden vs ford thing is bogus. and i agree wtf would you debadge a holden, its almost people want o hide the fact its aussie
Boots3962 5 months ago
@boeing767338 351 is yank.. toploader is yank... 9 inch is yank...!!!! lol and yes it would kill a mustang
HouseOfHorsePowerInc 5 months ago
houseofhorsepower you have trolled almost every ford add ive been in, the only thing you have proven is your an idiot......... so your a yank then?
Boots3962 6 months ago
@Boots3962 to be honest mate im jack of hearing FORD and HOLDEN supporters crapping on about ALL AUSSIE cars holden is owned by GM they run chev engines and FORD is an american company, ford AUS their parent company is ford CANADA!!! its all offshore!! im a holden man but neither are 100% aussie
HouseOfHorsePowerInc 5 months ago
@HouseOfHorsePowerInc i totally agree with you. but the vehicles have been created (minus the engine block, not inclusing pistons cams ect,) are created in australia. just cause you have italian background in you, and your born in america, doesnt make you italian. might have small part of america/canada/japan ect, but to me designed tuned and sold only in australia makes it australian.
Boots3962 5 months ago
@Boots3962 yeah i can see what you mean, still dont get why holden gets bagged so much for running chevs motor its a commo sold only here! GM are using AUS's design and turning them into pontiac GTO's. cant stand when ppl put the chev badge on a commo aswell
HouseOfHorsePowerInc 5 months ago
love how the aussies love the GT falcon thinking its the best AUSSIE car when its running all YANK motor and running gear lol
HouseOfHorsePowerInc 6 months ago
Just bought one for our 71 Mustang Fastback
MustangMedicdotcom 6 months ago
Wish my XG ute had that kinda power...
Johnyevil 8 months ago
jesus fuck thats amazing.
fmx4lif3v2 9 months ago
I have a 351 q in an f150 4x4. Fun.
billcv80 10 months ago
Fuel is yummy... :)
0mnomnomz 10 months ago
AWESOME
spencerszo1 10 months ago
Ford never called any of their engines small or big - that is chevy stuff.
kblackav8or 11 months ago
Small block. That is why they bolt up to a small block bellhousing.
boss351dude 1 year ago
@boss351dude Clevelands's are a mid block engine which is not a small block or big block, they made the cylinder heads the same as the windsor engines which allowed people to bolt on cleveland heads on to a windsor block hence the boss 302.
Chevymonster203 1 year ago
@Chevymonster203 Not really - you cannot bolt a cleveland head onto a windsor wiothout modding it. You have to drill out the cleveland head to allow coolant to pass into the windsor. The cleveland heads are canted valve - the windsors are straight. The cleveland is a small block - it uses the small block bell housing. Also, there are 3 types of true cleveland heads - 2v,3v and 4v.The 2v and 4v are vintage pieces and 3v use 2v ports and 4v quench type combustion chambers and are new in the game.
vipexperformance 10 months ago
DANG! that thing sounded like a beast!
kingkoax 1 year ago
@Brentelec the 351 cleveland is still considered a small block, no its not the same engine family as the windsor but both the 351 windsor and 351 cleveland have the same 4 in. bore and 3.50 in. stroke as im sure you know..eitherway its most definetly not a big block
vans1107 1 year ago
@vans1107 I know people refer to it as such, but after the bore stroke and bore spacing there are a lot of differences. Lots call M and the 400 big blocks. which is stupid. They (351c,M,400) came to be later than the real "small block" so being that they are different they are not the smallblock. That term was already taken by the windsor engines 255,260,289,302,351w, which came to production some 6 years prior to the cleveland.
AND smallblock/bigblock is a chevy term anyways.
Brentelec 1 year ago
Just one question for a timi French ! Mercury Grand marquis's engine : It's a 351W ford engine, isn't it ? It's a good engine ? How many hp have this engine ?
TheAEGUERBER 1 year ago
OK now just put a left a little, and a bit to the right, and just drop it right there in my engine bay : D
Strat0Blues 1 year ago
It has two cannons mounted to it, Cool!
mopardust73 1 year ago
A 351c is neither a small or big block it is a medium block. and the M stands for Midland
trb252003 1 year ago
Ford never referred to their engines as small-block or big-block. Those are Chevy terms. At least, Ford didn't in the 60's or 70's. They might have used those terms in the past few years.
The 289, 302, 351W, and 351C were all comparable to a small block Chevy, though. The only difference is the 351C uses heads similar to a BBC.
It is a stretch to call the 351C a BB, especially when it is physically smaller than a SBC. What about a 302 Boss? BB? Of course not.
72Detomaso 1 year ago
I had a 351 Cleveland on my '70 cougar xr7. It had the 4v heads. Yours sounds very powerful!
JOSEMASTERCRAFTSMAN 1 year ago
wow, awsome
DarksideRacingCrew 1 year ago
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Amigo, tengo para vender las 2 camaras ".4", intake manifold and exaust manifold, ORIGINALES, STANDART, INFORMACION CORPORACION51@GMAIL.COM
corporacion51 1 year ago
windsor was made for trucks vans and other not so sporty cars, both windsor and clevland are small bocks. but you would have too spend some money on the windsor to get it to do what a factory clevland would do. the biggest diferrence is the heads. 351m was the biggest of the 3, but still not so much a sports motor. not saying you cant beef up windsor or a moddified but the clevland was the best of the 3.
northbuds1 1 year ago
361 is a BIG BLOCK!!!!
devenarose1 1 year ago
whats the mpgs on a 351
FoxBodyMike87 1 year ago
Dont Edelbrock do heads for Clevos now?
fordv8man 1 year ago
351 cleveland is a small block
bowtiekiller1000 1 year ago
danrafter; sounds like you have very good engine; just imagine how much more you can make power if you have sheetmetal inlet manifold....
jetxr8 1 year ago
I wish i could get my engine going like that when its out of the car.How do you do that?
nailclippers3 1 year ago
Things gonna break off that stand and drive or should i say rip down the street if you don't watch it
jlpounds2001 1 year ago
351 C's used to cost crazy money to build. I had a '71 Mustang that I built up the original engine, Dart Heads w/BBC valves, .695 lift cam, single carb and dyno'd at 647 hp. Never could get enough carb for this engine...finally put a 1050 on it and what a difference that made. Ahh, the good old days...
danrafter 2 years ago
There are plenty of performance parts for the cleveland. It's not that expensive either. I own a cleveland, and have owned many chev's. and W's. Trust me there is just as much stuff for the cleveland as other engines, you just have to know where to shop.
widowmaker00 2 years ago 4
@widowmaker00 are you nuts? i own a cleveland, know where to shop, and there is only a fraction of cleveland parts compared to chev or windsor!
kylek70 5 months ago
oh HELL yeah!
love the speed boat headers...watch yer head when walking around it tho!
that clevland sounds bitchin!
TheRowdyJ 2 years ago
Wow. The compression ratio just pwned the starter.
You can hear it asking for HELP!! HELP!!
papabugs71 2 years ago 2
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is there anyway i can make my mazda b1800 1980's model sound like this? or even just really loud?
jimjams220 2 years ago
drop a 351 in her u might beable to haha!! if possible probley not
benhanson3 2 years ago
lol is that a serious question. OOOO I want my car to sound loud. lol
MobileDjSC 2 years ago
que año es ese motor
ferni1glass 2 years ago
oh shiiit
piskopath19 2 years ago
i have a cleveland 4v out of a 70 mach 1 mustang will they hold up to a supercharger well? havent seen any on boost would like to do it would be rare
86mustanghatch 2 years ago
I just shat myself...
FelixTheHouseFreak 2 years ago
do gran torino's have this exact engine?
hushbaby12 2 years ago
No, Panteras and Mach 1's have this engine.
Kooly1 2 years ago
Yeah some Gran Torino's actually did have 351C's in them
untoldguitarist 2 years ago 2
i got a 1971 torino 500 with a 351 cleveland in it
suberbinsnipa 2 years ago
Depending on what year. The GT version in 70' had it standard, it was a 2 barrell with a 4barrell option. I damn near bought a 71 Torino GT back in 92' with 48,000 miles on it. I kick myself daily for letting it go.
macksuperliner1982 2 years ago
LOOOLL AMAZINGGG1!!!! 351W RULEZZZ!
aleajactaest11690 2 years ago
It's not a Windsor...it's a Cleveland. 351C. I believe this one to be 4 barrel instead of 2.
FordTorino72 2 years ago
i'll be on in a few, cos i just shitted myself.
kingcr3b 3 years ago 2
im a beginner to all this but i have a 351c in my Galaxie 500 fastback, sound nothing like this beast but im still proud of it. What headers do you have? (like i said im all new to this) I cant find any headers for my galaxie but i found out i can use headers from a Roush Mustang, unless anyone has any suggestions?
Alyndaman2 3 years ago
Try headers for a Torino. Or conversion headers for a pre-69 Mustang. They have the smallest compartment that ready made headers are made for. Or get some Sanderson shorty headers.
kblackav8or 2 years ago
Strong.....stronger.....three-fifty-one-cee ;o)
NorwegsicheWaldkatze 3 years ago
where can i get one
ALSTONPOWERS 3 years ago
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looking for friends
energetic fun smart and loves this video ac
BobbyJ1008 3 years ago
nZA420 YOUR A RETARD, I DO SO HAVE A GRANDPA ACTUAULLY I HAVE 2 SO EAT SHIT!
santa914 3 years ago 2
my grandpas 1977 ford f250 custom has a 351 cleveland and man does it have power in that old truck.
santa914 3 years ago
man, you're lying! you don't have a grandpa!
Nza420 3 years ago
my has a same engin like that a 351 clevland open header in a 1971 mach 1!!
doironguy 3 years ago
Nice boat headers :D
colwag 3 years ago 2
nice Eng-stand to!! :) and headers! you took the words right out of my mouth -colwag- ..lol :)
peejaa 3 years ago
im sure your neighbors love you.
JP14259 3 years ago 26
@JP14259 I would love to be the neighbor...
RatRodScirocco 1 year ago
@JP14259
w9pcp 1 year ago
351c as the same bellhousing as 302-351w
bobbybigrigger 3 years ago
all ford motor blocks from 390 up are from the same casting and i have no clue what every bodys aruging about but its the same block but differnt everything else
antiskinnytruckerman 3 years ago
You think so?
puncht37 3 years ago
Wrong the 351C shares almost nothing in common with the 289,302, or the 351 W.
GaiaOnline777 3 years ago
wrong it has the same bore spacing, bellhousing pattern and head bolt pattern.
Brentelec 3 years ago
Well if you hadn't noticed I wrote "almost nothing".
GaiaOnline777 3 years ago
those are 3 pretty important almost nothings.
Brentelec 3 years ago
Not really since you can't fit 351C heads to a W or 302 without machining.Bore spacing would be the same since the block is only different in that the C is larger and came with 4 bolt mains, because of it capability to rev higher.Bell housing patterns were the same for many engines since the C6 Could fit anything from a 302 to a 351 to a 390 to a 428/429 and a 460.
GaiaOnline777 3 years ago
what exactly do you have to machine??? youre talking out of your ass. only thing is to put in the frost plugs in the heads. edelbrock even makes an intake for the "clevor" engine. 428/429 are 2 VERY different engines. they should not be slashed as if to say they are the same. 351M,400M,429,460 share the same bellhousing. looks like the smallblock but larger. 390,428 are FE pattern and are WAY different than either of the windsor/cleveland pattern or the M/385 series bellhousing.
Brentelec 3 years ago
Brentelec you do have to do some machining to put the cleveland heads on a 351 windsor. i own a machine shop and just put 351 cleveland heads on a windsor and i used the cleveland pistons. but i had to put the pistons in the lathe and face .014 thousands off the face of the pistons. and works like a dream. jokes on the one that pulls up beside this 351 Windsor!! Hope this info will be useful to you. by doing this it made the windsor have a .ooo deck without cutting the block also!!
mcdaniel01 3 years ago
exactly so you dont have to machine the block or heads like i said. lathing down the cleveland pistons is just to save money on buying new pistons. i too know what machining is all about my dad owns a machine shop so i've been around it my whole life. also you SHOULD be decking the block so its square side to side and front to back. that stuff is all regular block prep and should be done to every engine during any rebuild.
Brentelec 3 years ago
not all Clevelands came with 4 bolts.
Buzkill2009 2 years ago
I know that. I was stating the differences between a W and a C.
GaiaOnline777 2 years ago
Comment removed
Buzkill2009 2 years ago
no not even close. 390's are an FE block. they share nothing in common with any other ford engine family. 332,352,360,361,390,391,406,410,427,428 are FE's 370,429,460 are "385 series engines"
those are the common ones there are also older engines like the 462, 477, 534 which are MEL block and SD blocks.
Brentelec 3 years ago
The 351 is part of the 221, 260, 289 and 302 small-block engine family that debuted in 1962 when the Fairlane was downsized to an intermediate car. The 351 is actually 352 CID but FoMoCo changed the number to 351 to avoid confusion with the original 352 FE big-block. Ford forever! The Blue Oval rules! Screw Chevy and Mopar!
bulldogbarks55 3 years ago
351 cleveland is not a small block, its a 335 series, (351C,351M,400)
351 windsor is a "smallblock" like the 221,255,260,289,302, except with a taller deck height.
Brentelec 3 years ago 8
@Brentelec I hate to tell you!!! The 351 Cleveland has a smaller block than the Windsor. 9.2 deck compared to a 9.5 deck. The 335 series are small blocks, but the 351M/400 has the Taller block and the 460 bellhousing. The 351C is by itself in that respect because it has the small block bellhousing! If its a big block why can you take the heads off of it and bolt on a 302?!!
bjhump94 1 year ago
The 335 series are small blocks....you probably think the "M" stands for modified too....
1979shovelhead 1 year ago
@1979shovelhead LOL please enlighten me genious. 335 series are one to their own. a 400 is considered a smallblock by what standards? bore spacing?
what about bellhousing, weight, deck height, etc.....
they are neither a big, nor a small block so get over it.
Brentelec 1 year ago
From Wikipedia even, The Ford 335 engine family were a group of small-block V8 engines built by the Ford Motor Company between 1970 and 1982. The significance of the Numerals '335' designated to this series of Small block Ford V8 engines is relatively unknown. Also it's genius[jeen-yuhs]
1979shovelhead 1 year ago
@1979shovelhead you are quoting from wikipedia? that shows how little you know.
Dont coach me on a typing mistake, as you replied to a comment over a year old. The 335 designation is most certainly relatively known for those who know anything about Ford v8's. It IS as common as the 385 designation for the Lima engines. Maybe learn from a reliable source before spouting your limited knowledge.
Brentelec 1 year ago
@Brentelec, who cares if it is over a year old. That's the internet buddy. As for wikipedia, the only reason your putting down the contents is because it shows your wrong. As to the 335 designation, if you would have read the complete sentence, it doesn't say that the series itself is unknown, but for what the "335" itself stands for. Maybe you need to go back to school? .As for a Reliable source, it clearly isn't you slappy. As for your "typing" mistake, I'll coach you as i damn well see fit
1979shovelhead 1 year ago
@1979shovelhead So, because you and wikipedia dont know what the 335 stands for, that it could not be possible for the 351C, M and 400 to be called 335? Instead you choose to incorrectly tag it as a "smallblock" in ignorance. Also, if you are one of those guys who think M stands for midland, you are terribly mistaken. They were NEVER casted in Midland, MI
Brentelec 1 year ago
@Brentelec its still the same basic block though, it's the heads that make all the difference
vans1107 1 year ago
@vans1107 what is the same basic block?
if you mean 351W and 351C they are not the same at all.
Brentelec 1 year ago
@Brentelec Its the 351 Cleveland, 351M,400 is what they call a mid-block, not really a small block and not really a big block.
tj107us 1 year ago
@Brentelec The 351 cleveland is a smallblock,its block height (9.2")is lower then the 351w(9.5")so the block is 3/10th of inch shorter on the the windsor the 351m400 is considered by many to be a big block since it has a 10.2" deck height which is close to the 460 deck height.Cleavland and boss 302 just look big and wide because of the big canted valve heads.
powerslide000 9 months ago
@Brentelec then whats a Clevor? ;)
jacktheripped 7 months ago
@jacktheripped smallblock. thats just cleveland heads on a WINDSOR BLOCK.
the original concept, including the heads started out on a 302 windsor.
Brentelec 6 months ago
stagered valvues for life!!
2004KB281 4 years ago
Sounds good. I'm in the process of getting 351M, gunna shod it with Edelbrocks new Aluminum 351C heads(look up part number #61629 on Edelbrocks website). It's also getting a Roller cam conversion.
SternLX 4 years ago
i got a clevland in a 1969 boss 302. but putting the 302 back in the 302 boss motor will make more horsepower
crdude94 4 years ago
Holy crap!!! I want 1 now!!!!
korruptusextremis 4 years ago
wow...fantastic...long life muscle cars
gonnordolf 4 years ago
NIce!!! I gotta 4v cleveland in our Mach 1, luv it..
fredfordguy 4 years ago
Oh yeah and the Windsor's run slightly longer rods too I think, so it gives it a better rod stroke ratio than the Cleveland. Theoretically it should be safe to reve higher than the C, and has longer dwell at TDC. The W block has a better oiling system than the C, and better aftermarket parts like cranks, rods, etc. W block C heads all the way. The C is a great engine by itself though, I love it. You practically get racing heads from the factory.
Kornball426 4 years ago
your just making shtuff up now...
Buzkill2009 2 years ago
What part am I making up? "Clevor" (windsor bottom+Cleveland heads) engines were a very hot engine, before they made a good selection of aftermarket heads for Windsor blocks. In fact there are heads, based off the C now made to direct bolt onto W. And it's a fact that the mains are bigger, and the rods are longer in the W. And there are not many parts made for the Cleveland, compared to the Windsor... So I really don't see how I made anything up.
Kornball426 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The mains being bigger is a disadvantage. Higher bearing speed. They are fine for a truck but not for a high performance, high reving engine.
kblackav8or 2 years ago
That's true to an extent, higher bearing speed is bad... But extra strength is good. There's a reason why some small block race motors use big block main journals. I'm just saying it was a popular thing to do and made good power. Personally, I think I'd take a W over a C for a serious performance engine just because of the fact that there's tons of aftermarket parts for the W and not so much for the C at least by comparison. (Don't believe me? Look in a summit catalog sometime LOL)
Kornball426 2 years ago
Scummit whatever. Look at what Ford used in NASCAR the last 30 years. It was a hybrid of W and C. Bearing sizes until recently where 351C. Now they even run smaller stuff. Also look what engines have won Engine Masters recently. The heads are what make a cleveland really special. Worked 4v 351C iron heads will outperform most aluminum W heads and all the factory stuff. Go aluminum on a C - AFD or CHI and you crush the windsor stuff. Crank diameter only matters with weak Chevy's.
kblackav8or 2 years ago 2
I don't know about nascar but considering they run flat out up to 9000 rpms is it? For hours at a time bearing speed is going to be a big concern. Clearly stock C heads are better than stock W's. I'm just saying real world a W is better because it's tougher, and had tons of parts to build them available at reasonable prices. C's are rare & expensive to build. Worked heads is nice, but you can get W style heads that flow great, or even get C heads for a W block. TrickFlow makes some I think.
Kornball426 2 years ago
Look it up, all three 351's W, C, & M have a 4 inch bore & 3.5 inch stroke. The blocks are a little different. The C had 2.760 mains while the W is 3 inch mains. Best combo is modified 351C Aussie 2V heads on a 90's 351W roller cam block. Get the advantages of a roller cam+more selection because 351w's and 302's use the same cam journals so any 5.0 cam will work. Plus it's a tougher block in general+3in mains stonger crank. Then of course the big ass valves+ports of the Cleveland head.
Kornball426 4 years ago
RAWK ON!!!!
bigblockboi 4 years ago
from what I know of, it isnt the angle of the block. Both windsor and clevelands have 90deg. Its the shape of the heads that make the windsor look smaller.
I tpp thought the windsors had smaller V until I had a closer look.
blueoval 4 years ago
The Windsor is just a bored out 302. thats why its smaller. :P Cleveland is much larger, way more stable, and produces plenty of hp and torque at high rpm, and handles a supercharger like no other engine. The Windsor is nice and light compared, making it handle better in turns, great for street racing, but other 350+ powered cars take the advantage in drag.
tpzoso 4 years ago
Shut up tpzoso. Think before you type
kracker0469 4 years ago
351 windsor has 9.5" deck height, as opposed to 289 & 302 which have (i think) 8.5" deck height. the bores in most small block fords with OHV are 4" stock. so 351 windsor is actually much bigger than 351 Cleveland which has 9.2" deck height. BTW cleveland only produces more HP and torque in high RPM in american 4V head motors. 2V americans have better low end power, and australian 4V heads give the best of both worlds.
angelis90 4 years ago
Not exactly correct...the 351-w is not a ''bored out 302'' the 289,302,351 all shared 4 inch bores. The 351-w had a 1/2 inch longer stroke (3.50) also the block is not the same as a 289,302 since it had a longer stroke the decks had to be raised up 1/2 inch, thus makeing it taller and wider. only heads,and cam(rewired for 302 firing order) can be swapped..windsor is I think the better motor, cheaper to build and can be bored and stroked up to a 482...
jon4ford 3 years ago
where did u see that u can stroke it to a 482? i only seen 408 kits
blackmombo0 3 years ago
408...wow u will be surprised what u can do with a 351-W...just to name a few..can range from 351,392,408,427,460 or yes a 482..granted the 482 is strictly race and require a Deck plate, and can produce 1400+ Hp all motor
jon4ford 3 years ago
the rod to stroke ratio would suck balls in a 482
importsstillsuck 3 years ago
lol alot of the argument here is being caused by misunderstandings. there is no big block/small block with Ford. That's a Chevy term. Ford used more than 2 sizes of blocks. Now I'm pretty sure the Cleveland has a wider intake due to being a 90 degree V as opposed to the Windsor which is less. And the bore/stroke numbers are reversed between the 2. Windsor has a longer stroke and the cleveland a bigger bore. But both equal to 351 CID. I'd prefer a build Windsor for dragracing.
ChevyLS1Power 4 years ago
i can refute that. all small block fords (theyve always been called small blocks in australia) have 4" bores. the stroke and bore in windsors and clevelands are the same. most of the difference lies in oiling and cooling, and block shape (cleveland is longer cos it partially covers the timing gears)
angelis90 4 years ago
the windsor family of engines are all built with a 60degree 'v'between the cylinders, the cleveland family (351,390,429(?), and 460) are wider because they are 90 degree blocks.
with that in mind, imagine the fun I had stuffing a 351c into a 65 mustang, the shock towers were ugly by the time I got done making room for the motor.
louswire 4 years ago
Why even post when you don't know what the hell you're talking about?
leftwingnazi 4 years ago
I agree. To the Chevy people, do your research or keep your comments about your Chevys. Clevelands had better stock heads back then than the Chevy performance heads have now. I know this because I have a friend that just bought some Chevy heads. No comparison.
eldridge201 4 years ago
wtf, never heard of 390 429 and 460 being in cleveland family. in my mind, engines arent of the same family unless the share similar dimensions or tech or both. and from experience, 460 is not in the same family as 351 c, i know because i tried to put one in an XY falcon, which came with a Cleveland. not alot of fun putting it in but it worked. now it is fun
angelis90 4 years ago
There are three different bellhousings,
1)the 351W/302 and 300-six
2)351M/400/429/460 (except the 1974 era 400's were in 1)
3)FE series 360 390 410 427 428 etc
don't quite remember where the 351C is. It looks like a 351M but I don't remember if it has the same bellhousing also.
castirondude 4 years ago
The 351C is a small bell same as 289/302/351W. Also the 335 series engines were the 351 Cleveland and the 351M/400, which were also cleveland designs.
72Chero 4 years ago
Ah yes, long live the mighty cleveland!Love those boat headers.
detroitiron302 4 years ago
If you love clevelands, you should visit showoffyourwheels dot com. There is a psycho there who has wedged a 351 into a 60 series land cruiser in their featured vehicles and more cars section. Check it out.
nickypoo31 4 years ago
hes saying the cleavland is bigger than the windsor conan351 just size wise.
Falcman0077 4 years ago
Then maybe he should have chose his words better if that is the case by saying that the cleveland is a BIGGER block & not use the term BIG block when comparing to the windsor.
conan351 4 years ago
Now that sounds demonic.
pedrotski2007 4 years ago
yes ur right thats y i got 409ci outa my 302 theyr great engines thoes
krupt13b 4 years ago
Is that out of a factory 302 block because I'd be interested to see the combo to get that cui out of the factory block. I know it's been done plenty times before but it's always interesting to see how others have done it.
conan351 4 years ago
the main difence between the 289/302 and the 351 is the deck hight!
krupt13b 4 years ago
In a windsor yes, In a cleveland no, That is why the crank and rods from a 302/351C can interchange on the blocks.
conan351 4 years ago
yes was talking about windsor... have a blowin 411c myself
krupt13b 2 years ago
matbe im pretty sure ull find the clevo is a big block and a windsor is small i own both and thew block size of the two the windsor is consideragly smaller sorry to burst ya bubble dude
smtracing 4 years ago
Mate I suggest you reread what you just typed and get back in your bubble. The windsor/cleveland are not considered as BIG BLOCKS, So you own both big f***ing deal you're not the only one in this world who has both. If you're so clued up go and get a factory 429/460 block and then tell me if you still want to make half assed comments.
conan351 4 years ago
Just to add another bit to this debate, I also have a 400C which is basically a tall deck cleveland. Would you consider this a small block or big block.
conan351 4 years ago
Hey, Im in the process of hotting up my 400m and was wondering if u have actually done anything with that or whether it is just the 351c you have altered. k thanks
captianinsano11 3 years ago
I bought the 400 for my F150 to replace the injected 5.0. It will basically be a fresh engine with towing in mind.
conan351 3 years ago
WOOOOO HOOOOO
the almighty v8.
godzilla74114 4 years ago
that is one beutiful sounding 351
GTHOBRO 4 years ago
The Ford 351 Windsor Block was a evolution of the 289/302 Windsor Block Series, the Cleavland was supposed to be the replacement of it, Started as a 335 they bored it out to a 351. Ironically the Windsor outlasted the Cleavland....
lordkatanga 4 years ago
the windsor is a big block the clevland is a small block and they are both awesome
v8seat4bangers 4 years ago
What r u on dude. The windsor & cleveland are both small blocks.
conan351 4 years ago
i know there both small but out of the 2 blocks the clevo is bigger 1 ihave both sitting on blocks in shed the actual block size is bigger
smtracing 4 years ago
damn calm down thats just what I heard
v8seat4bangers 4 years ago
whats the difference between the cleveland and the windsor?
thefetman 4 years ago
For stock engines horse power and gas efficiency
thebluemaggot 4 years ago
OMG! Sounds like an angel from hell!!! I would give my wife away for that! :D
foxfoobar 4 years ago
THERE IS A GOD!
uniden289 4 years ago
Good lord almighty, hail the 351 !
saw426 4 years ago
back that timing up a bit, it would start easier. sounds great anyway!
19LIPPY55 4 years ago
I'd love to have that in my fox lol fuckin hot!
dragster200696 4 years ago
we have a 351 clevo in our jet boat, doesnt sound nearly as sweet as that though. should talk dad into getting some over the transom pipes :)
30494527 4 years ago
WOW! Sounds like a screaming WILDCAT! Great video!!
Mikestochat 4 years ago
Can you say: HIGH COMPRESSION!!!
oklahomaduster 4 years ago
I own one of these. What cars or trucks do these fit? I know it won't fit a '83 F150 2wd.
PackedFunk 4 years ago
You could fit a 460 in a F150 so a 351 will definitely fit.
conan351 4 years ago
351 will fit in any f150, hell iv seen a 460 in a ranger
omenica 4 years ago
We installed a 351c 4v in a 83 f150, took out the out 302 and put the 351c right in with vey minor adjust ment to the exhaust.
tracerstang 2 years ago
Shit.. hehee
Les
bigblockmustang 4 years ago
haha scared ya a bit when it fired eh?
campaug 4 years ago
Bra I don't know what it is you are looking at but I was the one filming and I don't see what you see??
conan351 4 years ago
the old guy jumping back after it finally fired.
campaug 4 years ago
That ought to be a nice car, if your queer
janeandjosh 4 years ago
WTF are you on?
conan351 4 years ago
Well, you should like it then. :)
AspenG 4 years ago
fu-yoh [DiGi PostPaiD Ad]
butuh86 4 years ago
The 351c was Fords secret weapon. Myself beat alot of fast cars with a 1970 stang and a 1970 Torino. The intake ports on the 4v motor are so huge, you can fit 4 fingers into them. You are building one scary ride!
iggyfritz 4 years ago
Cleveland owner myself.that motor sounds great
DW351C 4 years ago