Freedom, Capitalism and Morality - Eric Foner

[visvaldisX]

Freedom, capitalism, and morality in one sentence is suspect.

For religion and capitalism to flourish civil liberties are not necessary. America proves that.

[MultiSmartass1]

The problem with the Republican Party is that-as Foner says here-it is a contrdictory party.

However the Republican Party reflects the essential contradiction of American life-Freedom vs Control.

Christians and religious people believe in control because The Bible is a book that compels a narrow range of choice-obey or burn.

The secular concept of freedom means the inherent ability to live as one sees fit without the imposition of onerous authority.

[MultiSmartass1]

The problem with the Republican Party is that-as Foner says here-it is a contrdictory party.

However the Republican Party reflects the essential contradiction of American life-Freedom vs Control.

Christians and religious people believe in control because The Bible is a book that compels a narrow range of choice-obey or burn.

The secular concept of freedom means the inherent ability to live as one sees fit without the imposition of onerous authority.

[Aryaba]

It is telling that the majority of comments on the videos discussing freedom are from libertarians. Do the rest not like freedom?

[snopro54]

What would Ayn Rand do?

[Dumpster510]

@snopro54 she would DESTROY the empty suits and idiot politicians so swiftly and decisively (with WORDS) that I would pay to see it. can you imagine a debate between rand and obama? bush? bernanke? paulson? geithner? any of these statists? what a spectable that would be.

[Dumpster510]

@snopro54 she would DESTROY the empty suits and idiot politicians so swiftly and decisively (with WORDS) that I would pay to see it. can you imagine a debate between rand and obama? bush? bernanke? paulson? geithner? any of these statists? what a spectable that would be.

as for his statement about capitalism and morality....what a complete ignoramus. to people like him, it's either government imposition of morality or none at all....idiot, each persons morality is determined by each individual.

[qwertypoiu4321]

@variablast

A true voluntarist Libertarian should oppose voting period. It is a coercive act.

[greenghost2008]

that is the reason why atheistic egoism is the anwser to protecting capitalism.

[kulan2]

According to this guy everyone should become a christian. Too bad if your a Muslim athiest or animalists.

[Pennoid]

A professional historian is a lazy philosopher? That's like calling a

Nurse a lazy biologist. And because Ayn Rand says self-interest is a virtue this makes it so? I'm confuzzled....

[TheLegalImmigrant05]

He postulates a false choice between "right to choose" and "choosing the right". External restraint in the name of morality ("true freedom" as he calls it) is a contradiction in terms. Morality does not exist unless choice exists.

Self interest and morality are not contradictory. No wonder he does not to defend his statement that the market and morality are in contradiction.

Dangerous nonsense.

[randyguitarman13]

Liberty=Without coercion.

Foner is trying to argue that up is down, so he can justify State coercion.

This is the same person that said the Soviet Union dissolving was the worst event that ever happened in his life.

Reject his doublespeak.

[Bellantoni]

@randyguitarman13 No that was George Galloway who said that

[qwertypoiu4321]

@Bellantoni

Foner wrote in 1991--in 'The Nation' magazine--that the separate States of the Workers(soviet) Union of Russia should not be allowed to secede, citing Lincoln's mass invasion and massacre as an example.

[hannabanana11345]

foner is the best historian ever born, please stop criticzing him because you cannot do any better

peace love FONER

[Ajatashatru]

This guy is a lazy philosopher.

[coolrayfruge]

Violance and money has always been used to rob others of freedom.

Money has always been a form of control used by the upper class to make servants of the rest of the people.

To get them to pay for their rights to live on this planet.

There is nothing moral about it.

Its robbery!

[HeadTater]

That is true... to a point.

The rich do control us. However, more often than not, the rich either are given the guvmint'ss blessing or are controlling the government themselves. Take the Battle of Blair Mt. in 1921. Miners were being controlled through economic and violent means by the mine companies. However, the mine owners were able to act with impunity because they had the local government on their side. The upper class uses the gov't as their tool. We need to take that toll from them.

[coolrayfruge]

Freedom is being Free from restraint of others.

To protect those Freedoms from being controled by others.

It means practicing your own restraint.

By showing respect to your fellow man.

To his freedom to live freely on this earth.

Reckless abandonment and kaos is a threat to everyones Freedom.

If a person can't show restraint on his own.

And is a threat to the safty of others.

Is a threat to Freedom.

[blahblahblah8183]

Foner's right. Capitalism narrows choice. Our consumer culture allows for companies 2 advertise things ppl don't need; they create demand, consumers don't choose. A company creates a multimillion dollar ad compaign and mass advertises a product, a demand is artificially created and ppl buy into it, literally. Our immoral culture places more value on $200 shoes than on books, food and medicine. U have advertisers 2 thank for that, not "consumer demand". Freedom's for the advertiser, not consumer.

[pr0gm3r]

Each man has different interpretation on the meaning of Freedom and Liberty. Throughout their experience man develop their perceptions and interpretation of the world; especially the meaning of Freedom and Liberty.

[FUZZYisBIG]

This man is disgusting.

[MadSmokerBBQ]

his ideas are evil

[johnmcork]

this man is entirely correct and this is the view of people outside america about america. bush had 'compassionate conservatism'. look where that went. American neo-cons criticise europe and its empty cathedrals and yet europe is the home of social equity and public morality despite the fact it is overwhelmingly secular. you cannot ignore these contradictions.

[acidtrashy]

BULLSHIT!!! Self interest allows me to accumulate wealth to the best of my ability so I am in a better position to help others less capable than me. And I am better able to choose who needs and is deserving of that help than any government. This guy is a totalitarian.

[Bellantoni]

@acidtrashy Why do you need to help others in the first place? Did you ever think of that? Where does their plight come from?

[acidtrashy]

@Bellantoni

The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

[UndertakerALF]

I don't agree with him. Morality isn't what he calls christian freedom. Morality is what libertarians say, that every man has the right to choose. If you think about it God created our world in that way, where we always have the freedom of choice. It's up to the individual to make the right decisions

[CosmicFork]

Eric Foner says, "You cannot believe in Capitalism and Morality at the same time. That's an extreme statement and I don't want to defend it." He doesn't want to defend it? Then I will! It is ALWAYS wrong to treat any human being as ONLY a means to an economic end. Yet, that is precisely what unrestrained Capitalism does, and continues to do. Then we wonder why America can't create a just, equitable, and sustainable society for everyone?... Duh.

[johndoe43210]

Somebody forget to tell him that humans ARE animals (Homo Sapiens).

[kenlangston]

The "customer" imposes moral restraint by cutting off trade with the immoral seller. A grown man should know that.

[JTsmiley14]

I wish that actually happened. But I think the American economy as we know it would fall apart if people didn't buy things that were associated with slavery, human rights violations, and other oppression. :(

[DawsonLodge]

Who is this guy? Either a fool or a liar. First he misrepresents the philosopy of libertarianism. Libertarian doesn't mean "you do whatever you want to do". That is anarchy. Get a dictionary!

Libertarianism is the philosopy of rejecting

external control, but respecting the property rights of others. Freedom dictates responsibility over obedience.

Also saying capitalism is in conflict with

morality is Bolshevik rubbish. The monopolist system we endure now is not capitalism.

[JTsmiley14]

Based on what you've written, anarchism is no different than libertarianism. Anarchists also propose a sense of freedom that is "my freedom ends where yours begins." Also, even if our capitalist system now were a free market, it's still based around self-interest and hence subject to the problem of moral restraint originally discussed, though I admit that position needs to be explained further to be sound.

[8data]

good author bad topic

[Keylimedelight]

This is a good discription of the dicotamy in the republican party.

[jeremmorrow]

"Christian self-restraint"!?

He's right about a free market not being morally sound, but throwing in his own superstitious bullshit ruins his argument.

[korona3103]

The argument isn't horrible it is just very brief. He is saying that our natural instincts constrain us because they compel us to do things that we regret (e.g. overeating). Real freedom is predicated on suppressing natural instincts and doing what we know to be right morally.

The equation of religion and morality was a given in the 17thC so that is why he says it could also be called "moral freedom", this is just semantics, it is wrong to take it as the core of the argument.

[damM3]

i don't need religion for self control...

[kmardes]

very bad speaker, and horrible argument

[MassZombicide]

How so?

[kmardes]

way too many religious overtones. what a terrible explanation of freedom. 'christian freedom'?? he's obviously pushing his own personal agenda. and this was one of the 'greatest' speeches in amer history?

that's quite a role model you have there. wonder if you'd still admire him if some of your friends/family were among the innocent victims.

[MassZombicide]

I do envy his ignorance but I don't quite admire him, I just noticed that he's a sufficient speaker and that his speech was insightful in as to the theistic thought process, particularly that of a Christian. Plus, I liked the contradiction that he took recognition of. I don't care anymore for friends and family than I do other potential innocent victims. I was just wondering what it was that you thought was so wrong with his statements and now I suppose I know. Thanks

[ernestangley]

You don't understand the argument, he's discussing the views of John Winthrop and their relation to ideologies of freedom through US history at the beginning.

[mln9898]

I'm really seriously annoyed by this guy lol he's supposed to be a professor. It's pretty obvious by the words he chooses and way he presents everything which side of that argument he's on. You would never make that analysis of human nature if you weren't in tune with the ideas of the religious right. Capitalism isn't the only thing that contradicts Christianity; anything that isn't Christianity contradicts Christianity

[mln9898]

That guy is so ignorant. Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on morality or right and wrong. Sometimes you wonder if any of these people have actually read the bible, lol. It is very undeniably a dangerous thing for a large group of devoted people believing that their way is absolute. Also, if he didn't believe in God he'd be running around like an animal? I think we moved on from the Freudian view of concepts like 'instinct' and 'desire' powerfully influencing human behavior/nature.

[CRAPCANNONS]

You cannot teach people morals, much less impose them on others. Every political or economic system, from pure anarchy to theocracy to totalitarianism allows sociopaths to filter to the top and harm others below them, either in the name of individual freedom, or 'for the greater social good'.

[scpotts101]

This guy real gets to the heart of my issues with the republican party, and more broadly, conservativism and right wing politics. There is an inherent contradiction between social and economic conservatives. I guess you can't lump libertarians in with republicans, but I would say a huge percentage of libertarian-minded folks always vote republican.

[ianhoppe]

Never lump republicans in with libertarians.

[tommyk77]

Christians are so dumb if they think the Bible has a good moral code. They pick and chose from it to suit what they want. So is it really choosing to abide by a rule? Not at all. It's just animal freedom in a new guise

[LibertyPen]

Liberty is about making choices. It is about self interest. Restraint is not about liberty, it is about morality and self-discipline. Restraint is good, but let's not confuse the concepts. Morality is an individual matter.  Liberty--the ability to live one's life in accord with one's own vision of their life should be--is about society. As long as one does not violate the personal, property or civil rights of others, America should be about liberty.

[brownsheep83]

Couldn't agree with you more, for some reason the majority of the people don't realize this, however it is up to the people who are AWARE (people like you and I), to bring the people who aren't to the light. Believe me it's gonna be a struggle, and hopefully these people start to follow their own minds/hearts, and not their authority figures.

[neotoy]

brilliant analysis.