There certainly are obstacles (political as well as technological) to interplanetary human space flight, but reinventing cryogenic thermodynamics isn't the only solution. For example, nuclear thermal propulsion might be a better, if more politically-challenged, path. Regardless of what path succeeds, the fact remains a round-trip to Deimos requires less than half the change-in-velocity required to land on Mars and return to Earth. We can start human Mars exploration a lot sooner from Deimos.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree that sending "blood 'n guts" to a moon of Mars is a worthwhile activity other than to keep engineers employed. Until the boil-off from cryogenic propellants can be mitigated, long-duration deep space travel is a fantasy. When these problems are solved, then Mars, not its moons, become the prize for human exploration. Send a robot to the moons if you like.
You're welcome! Virtually nothing is known about the composition of Deimos other than its surface isn't as Mars-like as that of Phobos. In both cases, surface composition likely says little about what resources (like water!) are available at depth. Since the Russians are planning to arrive at Phobos with a robotic sample return probe in 2012, that would leave Deimos as some of the most strategic totally unexplored real estate in the inner solar system.
Thank you for a reasoned look at a feasible toehold exploration option. Forgive my astronomically amateurish approach, but I have some questions: What do we know about the composition of Deimos itself? Extraplanetary construction is one of the greatest challenges we face in outward exploration of the cosmos, and onsite construction would no doubt be preferred. Are there any other Deimos-Mars cosmological interactions or planetoid issues that would need to be considered?
Guys - you really don't say explicitly why Deimos instead of Phobos as the first Mars destination. Is it mainly due to the constant Mars-facing side? Or another reason?
@dphuntsman The Mars-facing side of Deimos is attractive, but Phobos has one too. In our opinion, Deimos is a more compelling human destination than Phobos because more of Mars can be observed for longer uninterrupted periods. Deimos is also easier to access and return from than Phobos because it's not as deep in Mars's gravity well. Finally, near the Mars solstices, terrain near alternating poles of Deimos is in continual view of the Sun (for power) and of the Earth (for communications).
@njirem The Mars approach video is simulated but nevertheless of high fidelity. It results from a precision trajectory departing Earth on 2011 November 30 and arriving at Mars on 2012 July 26. There's no real Mars approach video available because robotic probes don't have their imaging instrumentation active during the hours prior to critical Mars orbit insertion activity. We may well have to wait for a human mission to Mars before we see a time-lapse movie such as in this posting.
@adamodan thanks for explaining! It could not take such a long time anymore, i heard something about Obama aiming for a human-mars expedition in 2023?
@njirem You're welcome! It's not impossible, but I'd be more than pleasantly surprised if humans orbited Mars, let alone landed on it, before year 2024. Humans will indeed be fortunate if routine capability to reach lunar orbit and return safely to Earth exists by that date. We need Zefram Cochrane to invent the warp drive, and soon!
@adamodan Yes it will not be easy. At all. But the fact that our generation could witness a mars landing like my parents did with the moon (i don;t know how old you are ), it so exiting. I would quit my job just to be able to watch it haha. But we are definitely heading towards that. I think you will like the following documentary: youtube.com/watch?v=KIL7vUv18yA&feature=channel_video_title . Its a docu-like movie about a manned mission to venus, mars, pluto etc..looks very cool!
@njirem The BBC video is better than average. They even gave FiDO some dialog. That job disappears starting later this year with the Shuttle's retirement. BTW, communications between Earth and Venus would suffer at least several minutes' worth of latency due to radio's finite speed. I guess the BBC assumed instantaneous sub-space communication had been invented to keep the dialog crisp. That's about as much of a technology leap as warp drive.
Very interesting. I like the idea of standing off Mars and using robotic exploration. Thank you guys for the simulation and thoughts on how we can visit and live on or near Mars.
There certainly are obstacles (political as well as technological) to interplanetary human space flight, but reinventing cryogenic thermodynamics isn't the only solution. For example, nuclear thermal propulsion might be a better, if more politically-challenged, path. Regardless of what path succeeds, the fact remains a round-trip to Deimos requires less than half the change-in-velocity required to land on Mars and return to Earth. We can start human Mars exploration a lot sooner from Deimos.
adamodan 4 months ago
I'm sorry, but I do not agree that sending "blood 'n guts" to a moon of Mars is a worthwhile activity other than to keep engineers employed. Until the boil-off from cryogenic propellants can be mitigated, long-duration deep space travel is a fantasy. When these problems are solved, then Mars, not its moons, become the prize for human exploration. Send a robot to the moons if you like.
mactekos 4 months ago
You're welcome! Virtually nothing is known about the composition of Deimos other than its surface isn't as Mars-like as that of Phobos. In both cases, surface composition likely says little about what resources (like water!) are available at depth. Since the Russians are planning to arrive at Phobos with a robotic sample return probe in 2012, that would leave Deimos as some of the most strategic totally unexplored real estate in the inner solar system.
adamodan 5 months ago
Thank you for a reasoned look at a feasible toehold exploration option. Forgive my astronomically amateurish approach, but I have some questions: What do we know about the composition of Deimos itself? Extraplanetary construction is one of the greatest challenges we face in outward exploration of the cosmos, and onsite construction would no doubt be preferred. Are there any other Deimos-Mars cosmological interactions or planetoid issues that would need to be considered?
Zaximillian 6 months ago
Guys - you really don't say explicitly why Deimos instead of Phobos as the first Mars destination. Is it mainly due to the constant Mars-facing side? Or another reason?
dphuntsman 8 months ago
@dphuntsman The Mars-facing side of Deimos is attractive, but Phobos has one too. In our opinion, Deimos is a more compelling human destination than Phobos because more of Mars can be observed for longer uninterrupted periods. Deimos is also easier to access and return from than Phobos because it's not as deep in Mars's gravity well. Finally, near the Mars solstices, terrain near alternating poles of Deimos is in continual view of the Sun (for power) and of the Earth (for communications).
adamodan 8 months ago
0:14 - 0:28 is that real footage? if not is there real video footage of a mars approach?
njirem 1 year ago
@njirem The Mars approach video is simulated but nevertheless of high fidelity. It results from a precision trajectory departing Earth on 2011 November 30 and arriving at Mars on 2012 July 26. There's no real Mars approach video available because robotic probes don't have their imaging instrumentation active during the hours prior to critical Mars orbit insertion activity. We may well have to wait for a human mission to Mars before we see a time-lapse movie such as in this posting.
adamodan 10 months ago
@adamodan thanks for explaining! It could not take such a long time anymore, i heard something about Obama aiming for a human-mars expedition in 2023?
njirem 10 months ago
@njirem You're welcome! It's not impossible, but I'd be more than pleasantly surprised if humans orbited Mars, let alone landed on it, before year 2024. Humans will indeed be fortunate if routine capability to reach lunar orbit and return safely to Earth exists by that date. We need Zefram Cochrane to invent the warp drive, and soon!
adamodan 10 months ago
@adamodan Yes it will not be easy. At all. But the fact that our generation could witness a mars landing like my parents did with the moon (i don;t know how old you are ), it so exiting. I would quit my job just to be able to watch it haha. But we are definitely heading towards that. I think you will like the following documentary: youtube.com/watch?v=KIL7vUv18yA&feature=channel_video_title . Its a docu-like movie about a manned mission to venus, mars, pluto etc..looks very cool!
njirem 10 months ago
@njirem The BBC video is better than average. They even gave FiDO some dialog. That job disappears starting later this year with the Shuttle's retirement. BTW, communications between Earth and Venus would suffer at least several minutes' worth of latency due to radio's finite speed. I guess the BBC assumed instantaneous sub-space communication had been invented to keep the dialog crisp. That's about as much of a technology leap as warp drive.
adamodan 10 months ago
Very nice. Thanks for putting this together.
quantumG 1 year ago
Very interesting. I like the idea of standing off Mars and using robotic exploration. Thank you guys for the simulation and thoughts on how we can visit and live on or near Mars.
gmcneel 1 year ago