4-14 Salvation Through Water Baptism ? - Church of Christ

[whatthehellbook]

God is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe- Paul in 1 Timothy 4:10... That's like saying track is for everyone, especially for those who like to run. Jesus is the Savior of all, especially for those who trust in Him. God's grace & mercy will win out over everything else in the end, after His judgment. Those who reject God will face Him on judgment day but God will not write them off forever.

whatthehellbook . com

[tgbotg]

Again, so? Mormonism is a perversion of the beliefs of the church of Christ just like Catholicism is a perversion of NT Christianity. Are you going to blame Peter and Paul for the Crusades?

[ydnar0591]

When will man stop trying to add his works to God's Grace ?

IF as the CofC claims, H2o baptism is JUST AS ESSENTIAL as FAITH AND REPENTANCE , then evryone who sins AFTER salvation MUST "REPENT & BE BAPTIZED" AGAIN EACH TIME THEY SIN !

You cannot say "they are "EQUALLY ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION" as Cof C does, if you do not believe they are EQUAL in "EVERY" WAY.

IF I do NOT have to be H2o BAPTIZED for remission of sins after salvation then NOR do I have to CONFESS & REPENT of those sins.

[lllannallll]

@ydnar0591 "then evryone who sins AFTER salvation MUST "REPENT & BE BAPTIZED" AGAIN EACH TIME THEY SIN !" Man, you use this SAME ILLOGICAL STATEMENT frequently, don't you? And the FACT is that there a good, thorough example of a man who SINNED after being saved, and his instruction was not to BELIEVE ALL OVER AGAIN, was it? Yet FAITH is necessary to salvation, isn't it? He was told to REPENT - not BELIEVE. And he was to REPENT of his wickedness.

[ydnar0591]

@lllannallll

You must have Faith to repent.Repentance and faith are inseprable. Believe and repant are 2 sides of the same coin. When you say one, the other has to be assumed.

In John 3:16 Jesus said "whosoever believeth in him" but we KNOW that it is a REPENTING BELIEF ! I cannot "TURN" to Christ without "TURNING" from my sins.That is my belief.

If you TURN to face someone in a room you must TURN your back to something or somone else in the room. Repent means to"TURN".

TURN OR BURN ?

[lllannallll]

@ydnar0591 Acts 8, by the way, shows once again that REPENTANCE follows BELIEF, just as is shown in Acts 2. Simon was a BELIEVER. He needed to REPENT. He didn't REPENT during the process of becoming a believer, evidently. And he had been baptized, so all agree that he was SAVED: #1 He sinned, #2 He was told - NOT to have faith all over again - but to REPENT and PRAY. THAT is the "plan" for erring Christians - not to believer and be baptized all over again.

[ydnar0591]

@lllannallll

Very Convenient again!

Obedience to baptism always FOLLOWS Salvation. Jesus commanded us to be H2o baptized, he made it a LAW. The Ten Commandments were also LAW, ALL commandments of GOD are LAW.

[horseman528]

this man doesn't have a problem with the Church of Christ, hes got a problem with the bible. All one needs to do is read the bible and they will see the steps for salvation. Rom 10:17, John 8:24, Luke 13:3, Rom. 10:10, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Rom 6:3-6, Study the bible for yourself before you trust what someone else tells you. Read all of it, not just little bits and pieces here and there.

[traggicshame]

Love one another.. what does baptism change in you? Do you believe that the Holy Spirit comes into you when your baptized? So when you accept him it happens to your heart. You are not hardened. You do have something in you that makes you want to search for truth. Search the scriptures. Know the characteristics of Jesus. Know what he wants. We know with the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Please stop dampening the Spirit. When we argue we ruin our witness and any chance of reaching the lost. God Bless

[wordprophet]

What has any of this foolishness to do with the word of God, or his church?

[crushsatan]

People are people. Splintering off is a normal thing. People WILL splinter off. The "Church of Christ" is not perfect., neither is this guy. Belief is an individual thing. We chose what we believe. Morey pretends to dispute the church of christ view on baptism, but instead attempts to link the church with other organisations. Focus on the scripture. That is what can unite us.

[gateroadmusic]

@crushsatan The church of Christ denomination will tell you that they " practice what the first New Testament Church practiced" Read Acts chapters 2-7 and you will find that their rhetoric does not match reality. If their " congregation" was "like" the first church all their members would put all their money in the church treasury, their preachers would heal people and instantly smite backslidden believers dead, and their deacons would regularly perform miracles for the congregation to view.

[crushsatan]

@gateroadmusic

there idea is to "model" themselves after the first century church, as all churches should, as closely as possible. Don't you agree? Further, churches of christ generally hold that miracles were for a certain time period, and only under certain circumstances, at that. They generally contend that now that we have the bible, there is no longer a need for miracles, since we have the bible to confirm our words. The scripture used for that is 1 Corinthians 13.

[crushsatan]

Look the word "cult" up in the dictionary. This man's definition of 'cult" is:" an organisation which is based upon central leadership; either individual, or more than one; whose authority is viewed as being equal to scripture, or greater that scripture; and whose theology is in contradiction to that of historical evangelical thinking". Whose definition of "cult" is that?

[crushsatan]

interesting "history lesson". I need the sources. We all have a history. The past is the past. Obviously this guy likes history. Rock n' Roll has a history related to free speech, which is related to the reformation, and the "restoration". People are flawed. chrst is not. What will you spawn?

[dennreed23]

Refer to: Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, I Peter 3:21, Acts 10:47

[gateroadmusic]

None of the above mentioned verses cited include water baptism in the preached Gospel. If it is not part of the Gospel, it does not have the power to bring Salvation. By the way, those who teach that Mark 16:16 is a commandment are not reading the same verse that I am. It is a statement of fact, not a commandment. I can say that one who believes and is baptized and prays and gives shall be saved and it would mean the same.

[dennreed23]

"...he who BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; HE WHO BELIEVE NOT SHALL BE CONDEMNED"

-MARK 16:16-

He who believes and is BAPTIZED. so how can you say that baptism is not essential for salvation. You are now judging the words of Christ. You are now saying that what Christ said is wrong because you disagree with it.

[gateroadmusic]

Are you willing to apply the same logic of reasoning ( Jesus said it, therefore it is a commandment) to all of Jesus' statements?

[dennreed23]

@gateroadmusic Are you also willing to apply "human reasoning"? In fact, Christ said John 8:31 that He who keeps His words is indeed His disciple.

[dungeongrappling]

@dennreed23 Why do you consistently use only portions of the verse. The beginning of the verse says that he says this to those that believed. True believers will keep His word. Those that are not true believers will not.

[dennreed23]

@dungeongrappling True believers will keep His word. Okay, you were saying that I use only portions of the verse. Again, following the what the Lord had said, "He who Believes (note: What do you have to believe? The Gospel, and I suppose with both agree with that) and Is Baptized SHALL BE SAVED; (therefore you must first believe then be baptized to obtain salvation, that's what the Lord said on the other hand) He who believeth not shall be condemned" You cannot be baptized unless you believe

[dennreed23]

@dungeongrappling is it clear that you are not qualified for baptism if you have not believed on the Gospel? I mean, that's what the Lord said and I cannot understand why all of us have different opinions. Isn't that we must do what the Lord says and not our own will?

[dungeongrappling]

@dennreed23 We have different opinions because the it is clear that it is faith that saves you. No where does the Bible mention condemnation for not being Baptized...only for not believing. The scriptures are clear that "By grace are you save through faith not of yourselves not of works lest anyone should boast." John 3:14-18 says multiple times that those that have faith will not be condemned and those that do not will.

[gateroadmusic]

@dungeongrappling The ONLY time you will ever find the Gospel and baptism in the same sentence in the entire Word of God is when the Holy Spirit forever separated them; 1 Cor. 1:17

[schnedtrain]

@gateroadmusic Have you read Mark 16:15-16?

[gateroadmusic]

@schnedtrain Baptismal remission advocates insist that Mark 16:16 is binding on the church on earth today but refuse to admit that if verse 16 is binding, so are verses 17-20. If verse 16 is the requirement to GET INTO the N.T. church TODAY, then verses 17-20 are the evidences of one that has ENTERED INTO the N.T. church TODAY. You can't accept part of this passage of Scripture as binding and reject the other part. To do so is to err contextually. Are you prepared to accept all, schnedtrain?

[schnedtrain]

@gateroadmusic i do accept verses 17-20, but we must see who is doing the talking, and who is the talking directed to, also, who were "they", that left and preached everywhere? looking at vs. 14 it says "Jesus appeared to the eleven apostles when they were sitting at the table." Acts, declares what the Apostles did, "they preached everywhere, and miracles went with them."(mark 16:20) I DO BELIEVE MIRACLES HAPPENED, AND THEY SPOKE INSPIRED LANGUAGES, AND HEALED THE SICK, By the APOSTLES

[schnedtrain]

@gateroadmusic Paul the Apostle was trying to clear everyones confusion about who they pledged their allegiance to, versus 10 - 12, and then he clarifies that Jesus was the one they were baptized for, not him or Apollo or Peter.

[dungeongrappling]

@dennreed23 It is very simple. What does the second part say? He who believes not is condemned. Not he is not baptized. No where in the Bible can you point to one verse that condemns a person for not being baptized. If not being baptized does not condemn a person the how can it save a person? Believers are saved. Believers are baptized.

[dennreed23]

@dungeongrappling it is very simple too. you cannot be baptized unless you believe. There is no reason for you to be baptized if you do not believe.

[dungeongrappling]

@dennreed23 Obviously you believe and are then baptized. No one is debating that point. I find it interesting that you would even bring it up. You believe (and are saved) then you are baptized. He who believes not is condemned. The condemnation is for not believing. It isn't for not being baptized.

[gateroadmusic]

@dungeongrappling Do you mean by " keeping His word " that you are only attempting to keep the New Testament Commandments or do you mean by " keeping His word " that you are literally keeping New Testament commandments? Your answer will determine my next comment / question

[dungeongrappling]

@gateroadmusic I think that the keeping his word question was meant at someone else. If not please clarify.

[gateroadmusic]

@dungeongrappling Yes. It was for denreed23

[gateroadmusic]

@dungeongrappling Baptismal remission advocates read into Scripture words that DO NOT EXIST! They see water baptism in Romans 1:16 and 1 Corinthians 1:17 even though they are not there. I have even heard them quote Acts 2:37 as " what must we do TO BE SAVED", adding these "phantom words" so as to fit their theologically biased mindset. The answer to this direct question ( that does actually TO BE SAVED, Acts 16:31) does not contain the words " and be baptized".

[schnedtrain]

@gateroadmusic what about galatians 3:27 or 1Peter 3:21? the safest thing for us all to do is read the acts of the apostles and examine how other Gentiles were converted, what steps did they follow, how can you be saved until you die to self first, bury that old self in a watery grave, and then rise anew, as a new creation in Christ. (Colossians 2:12-13) is as clear as it gets.

[squirrelmaster4life]

Jesus did not die on the cross so that we would be fighting amongst ourselves. Jn 17:20-21 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 1cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethen, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you

[drjones444]

Dr. Moreys speaks out of two sides of his mouth. His definition of cult fits his own beliefs. Even historic, Justin Martyr believed in baptisms essentiallity.

[bjobe1964]

"Dr" Morey has MORE than two sides of his mouth. He knows good and well that the church of Christ accepts the Bible and the Bible alone, whereas the Mormons have entirely different books and special revelations, but he never says so. He does one good thing: impeaches the Emphatic Diaglott. Great! That was Dr. Ben Bogard's (Baptist) favorite little versions to use in debate because it contains the phrase "believe into Christ". We already impeached it, but good to hear one of his own do so.

[JxT1957]

Alexander Cambell is NOT the founder of the church of Christ. Jesus is the founder.matt.16:18.chuches of Christ have been here since 30a.d. they never left the earth. Jesus said,"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". jesus did not lie. Alexander cambell found out ABOUT the church of Christ.he is NOT the "FOUNDER". Would you believe an encyclopedia or God's word?! the latter day saint church is foreign to scripture. started in 1800's like other denominations. church of Christ a.d.30!

[olh1152]

What if the story of Noah was plaigerised and copied from the Gilgamesh Epic?

[christdiedonthecross]

Prove that the Cof CHrist Started in 33A.D. give a bible reference do give me that Mumbo Jumbo just have faith. The Church of Christ pray on the Week ppl who dont noe the word of God for them selves.

[BigRick777]

Yeah this man is right...a cult is a group who say they are the only ones going to heaven. I guess peter and paul where in Cults...because there was only one Church, one Body. And there is still just that today. This man is factually wrong, and he is also spiritually wrong. To say that another church with false doctrine that is not preaching what the Aposlte preached is in covenant and going to heaven is rediculous. It's an embarrassment to for him to even call himself a Christian.

[SKYSPLASH]

Give it up convert to Mormonism thier Gospel saves just as well as yours. Water Baptism is a Physical act a Work and it is not NECESSARY FOR SALVATION. Matthew 7 22 You will SAY TO JESUS. BUT JESUS I WAS WATER BAPTIZED I SPOKE IN TONGUES.

[BigRick777]

What kind of Act is believing? What kind of Act is repenting? What kind of Act is confessing? ANd what is the different between a mental, emotional, or physical act? Why is a physical Act a work of gaining salvation and not a Mental or emotional act????

You are a Calvansits whether you know it or not... You should change your name to "I am a Calvanists, so I don't have to assume any repsonsibility." Answers these questions... And think about them long and hard.

[SKYSPLASH]

I guess I need to Give you the Definition of a Work Again.

Well Lets Just Go with what Jesus said hopefully you recognize his Definition.

What Work DOES GOD REQUIRE ?

John 6:29

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

JESUS SAID BELIEVING IS A WORK. Got IT THE ONLY WORKED REQUIRED. A TIMELESS STATEMENT THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE.

[BigRick777]

First of all this is the work of GOD, not man. Secondly you have misinterpreted this verse and whole passage. 3. Jesus just got done telling them that they must WORK for the everlasting foor, which is spiritual, and not physical. Here Christ is telling them about the spiritual and they don't understand becaues they want physical.. They want real food, they want to do the works of God, they want to see Miracles. But this is a faith COvenant and not a physical.

[SKYSPLASH]

Let me discombobulate what you Just said.

I made no misinterpretation . Jesus was Going to Bring in a New Covenant and he was speaking to those in the Old. He would consistently create New Laws New Works to make it Plain to the People that No Work they did would be sufficient. Pluck your eye out be perfect as your heavenly Father, Sell all you have. Tell me have you done so.

[SKYSPLASH]

Jesus gave the answer to believe on him who was sent. Surely many did and many of them became Born again Christians when Jesus Sent the Holy Spirit. The only Baptism that saves Fire not Water.

[BigRick777]

There was no knew work... It's always been FAITH... always. The only thing that has changed over time has been the Covenant. It just so happens that you must obey Christ fully to enter into the New Covenant.

When you believe in Someone, you don't just believe that "THat person is that Person" but you believe on what has been said by that peson also. Jesus COmmanded Faith, Repentance, Immersion, Confession = obedience.

By the Way... you better pray your not Baptized in Fire...

[BigRick777]

You defenition came from websters dictionary and not from God. What work does also God require? Accordind to PHilippians 2:12??? What work is that. Once again, you don't answer any of my questions and you ignore the rest of the word of God. After you get done answering my previous questions... Answer - 1 After you stress that Baptism is a work and that any work takes away from the Grace of God why do you think the belief work is any different? Where does it say that Belief is the only work?

[SKYSPLASH]

John 6:29

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

No I guess Websters Dictionary Got it From Jesus.

Ever have your math Teacher tell you to work this Equation out in you Head. And tell me Scripture sais to work out your salvation with fear and trembling but then goes on to say it is not I who WOrks But God works In me.

When Jesus Said Paid in Full at the Cross was His a DEATH A WORK. The Final work.

[BigRick777]

So first Baptism is a work and any work that man can do adds to salvation... then Belief is a work that you must do (Besides all the other commandments) that doesn't add to salvation... and finally CHirst dieing on the Cross is the last and final Work... Do you ever know what you are saying? Do you really believe all of this garbage? We need to start with the fundamentals. We need to get basic... because you are so twisted and messed up, you contradict yourself.

[BigRick777]

What kind of Act is believing? What kind of Act is repenting? What kind of Act is confessing? ANd what is the different between a mental, emotional, or physical act? Why is a physical Act a work of gaining salvation and not a Mental or emotional act????

You are a Calvansits whether you know it or not... You should change your name to "I am a Calvanists, so I don't have to assume any repsonsibility." Answers these questions... And think about them long and hard.

[SKYSPLASH]

Jesus said the Only work of God was to Believe on him as you turn to God and Recieve his Grace and Become Born Again The Spirit of Baptism enters you to believe is to Repent Two sides to the Same Coin. Jesus Said Believing on him was the only Work Required and Scripture is Clear God completes his Salvation in you so Christ is are all in all.

Gods Gifts are irrevocable 11;29 romans, God works in Us . Salvation Belongs to God alone. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

[BigRick777]

Where does it say this? Where does it say that believing is the only required work?  So I guess Peter was a false preacher when he said you must repent... And I guess the gentlemen on here were teaching falsly when they ALL said you must repent.

[SKYSPLASH]

John 6:28-30 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Galatians 3

Galatians 3:5

Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

[SKYSPLASH]

1 Thessalonians 2:13

And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

[SKYSPLASH]

Romans 2:4

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

2 Timothy 2:25

Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

Notice Even Repentance is Granted By God. For the Specific Purpose to lead them To Christ to Be saved. The Father Draws you to the Son.

[BigRick777]

God Draws you to the son through the preaching of his word. Faith in Christ comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17). To be called by God is to have the word preached. That word preached is what penetrates the person to make an intellectual descision whether they believe in Christ or not. This belief then leads to saving faith which is obedience of Christ which he commanded the person to repent, confess, be immersed. If you don't obey CHrist then you don't love him.

[jerson2010]

Skysplash, I cannot find to those verses that ONLY required work is mere faith, tsk, tsk, tsk. Read it again...please.

[SKYSPLASH]

Saved By Grace Alone Through FAITH alone in Christ alone. Got it Grace is FIRST. Romans 3 28 4 5 5 1 9 30 10 4 11 6 Galatians 2 16 2 21 3 5-6 3 24 Ephesians 2 8-9 Phillipians 3 9

[jerson2010]

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Rom 3:28)

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:5)

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Rom 5:1)

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. (Rom 9:30)

[jerson2010]

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Rom 10:4)

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Rom 11:6)

[jerson2010]

Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Gal 2:16)

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Gal 2:21)

[jerson2010]

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith?

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (Gal 3:5-6)

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Gal 3:5)

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (Gal 3:6)

[jerson2010]

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Gal 3:24)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Php 3:9)

[jerson2010]

Where is the word ALONE there? NONE! Besides, the deeds of the law there ws refers to the OLD law. Read the warnings..from God;

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt NOT ADD thereto, nor DIMINISH from it. (Deu 12:32)

Read also Rev 22:18-19...

[jerson2010]

We preach and teach what the aposltes teach in acts 2:38, but baptist/calvinist did not preach the same things. They preach it in reverse....

[BigRick777]

Good point...I bet even tho you have posted the verses... Skysplash will read them and still see ALONE in every one of those verses. He is intoxicated with his doctrine to the point he is controlled by it. His false doctrine has made his vision blurry, it has slurred his speech, to the point he can not see the scritpure.. and when he does he reads words into the verses that are not there. I pitty this person.. I truly do. I am glad you quoted the verses.. at least something he does not do.

[BigRick777]

These faith passages are great... ANd we ALL except them. We use them and preach on them. FOr some reason, you have Baptism in your head as a work that adds to the Grace of God, when that is just false. How is it that Baptism adds to the Grace of God, but not faith, repentance, or confession?

[BigRick777]

Restore the truth?mmm I Wonder who also said this...Could it be John Calvin? The Man who the Calvansits come from and who this Baptist comes from? John Calvin also said the same things. This man is a fraud.