Only Faith can make up for our pitiful attempts to follow God. If you live a "respectable life" or if you are greedy doing nothing for others and Dont believe in Christ most would agree that its impossible to get to Heaven. Is it better to live your entire life in the belief that [ love for others and the work that is a result of that love ] is not necessary ? cause of one single misconception; Faith by Grace alone, Heaven is not just impossible to reach for man alone.. its really hard too.
@darkestyousibug Jesus assured that the thief will be goin to the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus said the thief would be with him in paradise.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.The bible clearly shows us this when we read it with an open mind and a sincere desire to know the truth.Read with the Spirit and understand by the spirit.
The Bible, along with the Book of Mormon, teaches that faith, grace, & conduct (works) are inseparably connected & that during the judgment all men will receive their eternal reward according to their works. Christ teaches us to be the best that we can be. But, we are also taught that because we have all sinned & come short of the glory of God, that we MUST have & believe in Him & His grace in order to enter into a Heavenly reward. We rely on Him & do our best; He does the rest. Praise Jesus.
@batterdown Conducts? Good Works? Are you saying you played a good part in your salvation? And you will earn your reward according to your good works?
@darkestyousibug forgets that the Bible clearly states that conduct (works) is important. LDS simply believe that grace (faith) & conduct (works) are inseparably connected, NOT mutually exclusive. Faith alone cannot save any more that conduct alone can save. We Must have Jesus. Work, grace, conduct, or faith, cannot save without Jesus. As a Christian, my conduct reflects my faith, trust & love of Christ. To be told I can't work for Jesus; you might as well chop off my hands.
@batterdown Conducts/works is important? Yes it is! But it is not the essence of the salvation. The CONDUCT MUST NOT REFLECT YOUR FAITH BRETHREN. The conduct is simply a small piece of shadow of your faith. There are many things that glorifies God. And back to your church, you got false doctrines and practices that does not glorify God but blaphemes instead. God bless you brother :)
@darkestyousibug has twisted my words. I never said -& the LDS church does not believe- works/conduct is the "essence of salvation". He just keeps ringing the same bell expecting it to sound different. THEN, he uses a worn out method of opposition to LDS beliefs by making a blanket statement against the beliefs, with no references. In a court of law, his testimony would be stricken. You would be wise to strike it also, or ask for specifics. That is my request: Need more input, & I'll respond.
@batterdown Hello. Good to talk to you after 6 days brother. The thing is you are equally weighting this good works to your faith brother saying that they are not equally exclusive, inseparably connected, blah blah blah. But my point brethren that will ring this bell in a different manner is, the good work is a tiny crumb in your salvation and not a thing to be focused into. And you play dumb on the sound of the bell that says your church BLASPHEMES, IDOLS, and DOES NOT GLORIFY GOD. God Bless:)
@darkestyousibug And this will ring the bell most. If you compare this in a court of law. The judge(God) will strike my Attorney's(Jesus Christ) testimony (God's Word) with my strong evidences (Holy Bible)? And will listen to you(accused) and your attorney (Joseph Smith) showing your awful evidences(book of mormon, pearl of great price, doctrine and covenants)? Think about it good sir ^_^
Brother, may the Holy spirit work with you. If you are one of the chosen elects, God will work in you.GB:)
@darkestyousibug - I say unto you with every fiber of my being, DEPART...YOU BEAST FROM HELL! In the Holy Righteous name of my Savior and My Redeemer, Jesus the Christ. You have no opinion of any worth to the souls of those who read this message. You are but dross. You Do NOT KNOW of the True & Living Christ. He IS my redeemer and HE is the True redeemer. I cast your name to him to be dealt with & to be judged by YOUR works, as I will, & I SHALL be judged BY him of mine. Depart fiend! Now!
@batterdown Brother. I know the truth about the living Christ. Are you mad because I speak the truth about your religion? If Jesus is your savior and redeemer the write His name on capital letters(at least). Speaking about your judgement. We will not be judged according to our works and you dont even know my "works" but I know some of your works brethren. Speaking evil of 17 yr old boy. Calling him fiend, even he helps you understand the truth? That does not gorify God. Just like your Church. GB
@darkestyousibug lies, deceives, twists & manipulates. Beware of this cunning cur in sheep's clothing. He criticizes the smallest thing, & ignores truth in his face. YES, we "will be judge according to our works". It states this clearly, several times in the new Testament, yet He deceitfully gloats of his "strong evidences (...Bible)" He is a fiend & a hound from the "Darkest" depths of the infernal pit with one unholy, impure purpose...LIE. People are chosen because they choose to be chosen.
@batterdown Your poetic words brother does not make you smart but simply proves that I am talking to an old man. You will be judged according to your works? then poor you coz you'll be going to hell. No man is righteous, especially you who speaks evil of others brethren. We are exempted from God's wrath and God's judgement, you aren't. You say Mormons are obedient for they obey the long list of Bible's to do? never:P. It's more than that that your shallow mind can't understand-_-
Shawn reading James 2 in context there is no denying what this caller said. Revelations also teaches that we R judged by works. What Shawn alluded to is also true that w/o relying on Christ we can't do the works and we certainly can't be saved because no matter how good we try to be we will always fall short. When the rich man asked Christ what he lacked to enter heaven Christ reply was sell all U have and give it to the poor. He did not say just believe in me he told him something to do.
Lets not confuse Grace & Works because they are one so to speak.In other words, when become saved by grace, works will just be conceived in you.. Its like buy one take one in a sales store promo.
@rickpila Christ lists several MUST-DOs in order to "get to heaven"/"be saved" -- "be born again (spirit/water); be baptized; do will of the Father; keep law/commandments; repent; eat flesh/blood; be converted as little children". HE NEVER said "Believe ONLY". Those are words we should not forget & always remember. I think His words & His requirements are important, too. If we don't believe HIM, then we can't say we are Christian & are doomed to miss the mark that He has set for us.
@lilbeaveymac 's statement may involve semantics. Christ said, when he got baptized,"...for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." If Christ, being perfect found it necessary, how much more necessary is it for us, being sinful? Also, in the great commission at the end of Matthew Christ said: "Go ye & teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, & of the Son, & of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things..I have commanded.." He expects obedience from us.
@lilbeaveymac This video accuses the LDS church for putting too much emphasis on works. I disagree with it and @lilbeave. "All us mormons" do not think we are the only ones doing good. Any true Christian will do all they can to follow Christ. Yes, the thief on the cross wasn't baptized. He went to paradise...Not heaven. LDS believe as Jesus clearly taught that it is necessary; that is why we baptize for the dead.
"Christ said, when he got baptized,"...for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." If Christ, being perfect found it necessary, how much more necessary is it for us, being sinful?"
You mean Christ fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law, therefore as you say it is "necessary" for us to as well? Does the Bible teach that? No.
@batterdown Peter a.k.a. Simon denied Christ three times. Is that a good work? Peter doubt Jesus while he walks in the water. But still, Jesus gave the keys of heaven to Peter! It is not because he do good things. It is because of he still believes that Jesus is the son of God! Scribes and Pharisees do good all the time."For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20
@lilbeaveymac baptism isnt a requirement to be saved..
Christ said No man can enter His kingdom unless he is baptised.If we arent baptised then we cant Enter His kingdom.Surely if we are saved it will mean to be in His Kingdom
@batterdown Faith alone in Jesus can save. Our good works follow because when we received Christ. We are new creations. You faith is in your good works. And to tell you. "Good work is a very very easy thing to do" unlike faith. Faith in Christ is not just like "I believe in Christ my savior" and I'll do His teachings so I can get to heaven. Faith is more than that. Imagine missionaries dying and being persecuted around the world for Christ's sake? That is what God wanted.
@darkestyousibug would have you believe that faith in Christ automatically makes your conduct change. That is true only so far. We still have an obligation to Christ to allow the change(s) to occur. He doesn't compel or force; he invites. Yes, each of us are all equally dammed without the mercy & grace of the Lord Jesus. But he also says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." He judges, (or quantifies our Love toward him) & rewards us according to the way that we show that love (works/conduct).
@batterdown Sir, you don't even know what is this "faith in Jesus Christ" is. This is the hardest thing to do as Christians. This is not simply believing Jesus Christ, it is believing in something we don't see but we feel. Faith is living in his gospel. Faith is fighting for the right gospel. Imagine thousands of Christians persecuted because of simply saying their Christ is alive? Thats the essence of it. Faith. Our hearts are changed by the Holy Ghost. In the first place. Men are created cont.
@darkestyousibug cont. Men are created without any love for Christ. We turned away from Christ because we chose darkness rather than the light. It was also Jesus Christ that transformed our heart to get back to Him. I say this to you, WE PLAYED NO PART IN OUR SALVATION. And true Christians don't do good works for rewards. If that so, you are like Pharisees worshipping God in vain. Jesus said to them , "leave for I do no know you."
No... the only way to salvation is through christ and forgiveness and by grace... works have nothing to do wtih getting saved... Just a note but Christianity is not a religion... its a relationship with christ
I take the second to be Biblical.Our work without love (Jesus) is nothing.So if we don't have Jesus and we do good work we still go to hell.Because who can do GOOD works if he is not saved/if he did not have Jesus in him?
Good works means nothing without Jesus,without being saved.
@ThomasWinkworth for the existence of my good work id to please God, so save me from hell.and not from the fear of hell, because you can still hate Jesus but do some kind of good work.
If LDS work to get the reward it wud make more sense.With yur "WAY" you are telling god that unless one is saved first(Gets ther reward first)then yull do the good works.Save me first god then youll be a good boy.Seems backwards to me.So many more scriptures sayn that we Must do more than just believe to return to His Kingdom
@jferristube John 3:16....believe and you will be saved.So easy, why searching difficult?the scripture is simple.Philippians 2:12 says to work out your salvation, it means you have your salvation already...so work it out.It doesn't say:work FOR your salvation,NO!! i says work your salvation.
If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you have already done the work to enter Heaven.Thanks for the comment
@jferristube it is like your marriage.Work out for your marriage, to make it better and better, not to earn marriage.Work out your salvation, in my opinion is to know more and more Jesus who is God.Thank you for the comment
@teriiura Work out for your marriage, to make it better and better, not to earn marriage.Work out your salvation, in my opinion is to know more and more Jesus who is God
Cool answer.I like it.
Is that how we get to know him better?Come closer to Him?Learn more of him and how he can work in our lives?
And how do we work out our Salvation?I know how one can work on a marriage to improve it but how do we work out our Salvation?Is it the same as workin on a Marriage?Interesting.
@jferristube i would say the same way for a marriage...learn more and more about your spouse, how to make her/him happier and happier with your actions.To really know the heart of God, it is written in the Bible
"Wow! Christ died to save me! I'M SAVED!!!! YAY! I love him for that! Since I love him and believe all that he said, I want to obey him- He's God, after all!"
This obedience leads to a life of assurance and sanctification by the Holy Spirit.
NOT:
" Now that Jesus got my foot in the door, I hope my work is good enough to save me from my sin, here on out." This leads to a life of self-reliance, serious finger-crossing and hoping you're good enough.
@brizbot Now that Jesus got my foot in the door, I hope my work is good enough to save me from my sin, here on out." This leads to a life of self-reliance, serious finger-crossing and hoping you're good enough
Betta than thinkn Im saved and all other christians who dont believe as U do will go strait to hell.
What of the millions who die without ever hearn the Gospel or hav a chance to accept Him?Yur god sends them to Hell?Infants who die Also go to hell?
"Wow! Christ died to save me! I'M SAVED!!!! YAY! I love him for that! Since I love him and believe all that he said, I want to obey him- He's God, after all!"
This obedience leads to a life of assurance and sanctification by the Holy Spirit.
NOT:
" Now that Jesus got my foot in the door, I hope my work is good enough to save me from my sin, here on out." This leads to a life of self-reliance, serious finger-crossing and hoping you're good enough.
Kind of sounds like mormons today.... the laws and ordinances of the Gospel are intended to stir us up to a rememberance of the Lord. But for some reason it seams to have turned into a checklist of "if I do these things I am saved." NOOOO!!! Couldn't be more wrong! It is really all about intent. If your heart is not in it, it doesn't matter. And your heart can only be "in it", once you have been born again, and forsaken the things of the world and committed yourself to the Lord.
Shawn you are exactly right that works come as a result of being saved by Grace. That we should be doing the will of the Father because of the price that His son paid for us. However, to obtain grace requires works. Christ only saves those that accept Him as who He says He is. You only come to know God by humble prayer, and constant studying of the Word which leads to repentance. The Holy Spirit will testify of the divinity of Christ's story and His atonement.
Also, I feel you are taking the scripture, grace is no more grace out of context. I am not a bible scholar, but I think he is talking about the law of Moses and the Jews in chapter 10 and 11 of Romans. Saying that they are now saved by Grace and not the law, otherwise grace would not be grace if you will. But what was the purpose of the law? The intent was to stir them up to rememberance of God at all times, but for some reason, the Jews thought they just had to live it and would be saved...
In other words, this guy thinks you can do anything you want, even murder, & still get into Heaven. I mean if works doesn't matter then you shouldn't have to repent right? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the atonement?
@maj-In other words, this guy thinks you can do anything you want, even murder, & still get into Heaven. I mean if works doesn't matter then you shouldn't have to repent right? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the atonement?
Good points. I mean the Bible says the that true religion is.... and mentions works. Not just belief and then all is done.. roll eyes. they have it so backwards.
They say "works automatically follow" Baloney, I know many Christians that are theives.
hey maj, let me try to explain it differently, because it seems like you could have misunderstood. You mention doing "anything you want, even murder, & still getting into Heaven". This is not what salvation is about. Christians understand that Christ has given his life to save ours. As such, we give our life back. Not to save ourselves, but as a response to the fact that we HAVE BEEN saved! A believer does works out of loving obedience, not hope for salvation. We are sure of our salvation.
@brizbot =Christians understand that Christ has given his life to save ours. As such, we give our life back
I'm sure you've know a Christian or two who have "backslidden" or even left Christanity all together, I know a few, many in fact. So your point is moot really, as our works is obviously a part of the equation other than just a belief. "Faith without works is dead being alone"
We all can fall from salvation just as Judas did.
@wellsjdan Then they are not Christian after all. Do you think a life surrendered to Christ can even think of stealing? A true Christian always prays for Christ for a heart that hates sinning but men always fall short. Even Christians. The difference is, Christians repent their sins, and they struggle from their sins. IF we are judged according to our works. We will all go to hell.
@darkestyousibug-Are you saying once saved you become perfect? Not subject to human frailties and emotions? Can never sin? roll eyes. Come on.... roll eyes
There are many examples of Christians in the Bible sinning, Prophets sinned in the OT, New Testement we have an apostle of Christ sinning.
God is not has hateful as mainstream Christianity makes him out to be.
@wellsjdan Once received Christ, we are new creations. We received a new heart that like God's, a heart that hates sin, a heart that is holy. But since we are humans, we always fall short and tempted. That is why even Christians sin. But the difference is we struggle from our sin. And yes we are perfect. When we received Christ in our hearts, we are perfect. For our sins were cleansed at the cross. Can you site prophets from the bible thats sinned but does not turned back to God and still saved?
@darkestyousibug - You contradict yourself, first you said if Christians sin they were never Christians after all, and that they become new creatures, now admit all Christians still sin. Which is it? roll eyes.
The apostle Judas, whom was chosen by Christ as one of his 12 apostles, was a believer, then Christ says he became a devil thru sin, and fell, this can happen to all of us if not careful, that's why there is so many scriptures that warn to not fall from grace (Gal 5:4)
@wellsjdan Judas is prophesized to betray God, we can do nothing bout it. Brethren, i did not say Christians don't sin. You said that a man save can murder and kill and sin anyway he/she like, of course that is not a Christian. Christian will not do that, not only mormons lol. All I can say is that. Christians hate sins just like God. And if we do sin, we hate it and fell sorry for it and struggle from it. How hard is it to absorb brother? I said it like three times already -_-. But still, GB:)
@darkestyousibug- You did say Christians do not sin, you said they become a new creature, and said that if they do sin they weren't saved. So you contradict yourself. Of course Christians can sin, and of course they can fall if they are not careful, that's why Christ warns over and over to not fall from grace (Gal 5:4) David the Prophet in the OT also fell from Sin. So your beliefs are not biblical, and they are your own, other Christians agree.
@wellsjdan- Darkest (appropriate name for a Son of Satan) uses the typical, incomprehensible technique of circular reasoning. "Once you are saved, you are always saved." Then, what about the Christian that goes out and decides to murder. "Well, then they really weren't saved in the first place." Leave him alone. Dust your feet of him. He is in league with the Father of all lies. ("Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God." Once more, and you will feel the scourge of Zecharias.)
@batterdown -True, the logic of mainstream Christians on being saved is circular and illogical, not to mention not biblical. Gal 5:4 says one can fall from Grace, and there is many other warnings of being fallen, The most funny is they say Judas, an apostle of Christ, choosen by Christ as a believer, was not really saved. roll eyes. LOL
only grace saves us. the works are a natural RESULT of the genuines of the conversion. looking at it from another side you get to realize that there is possible to see righteous people at the first look ( that try to win their way to heaven by WORKS) that are not truly saved but it is ~I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E~ to see a saved Christian living in a continues state of unrighteousness, that doesn't mean that the Christian is basing on works, only that his conversion was genuine.
@fakirJ -only grace saves us. the works are a natural RESULT
This is a contradiction, if only Grace saves us, but what if we DON"T do good works or fall from doing good works? Or leave Christ all together, then those are our bad works, and we are no more saved than a Muslim, or Buddist who doens't beleive in Christ.
@fakirJ only grace saves us. the works are a natural RESULT of the genuines of the conversion
God will not recognise the good His children of other beliefs.Theygo strait to hell?Hmm Interesting.Seems yur god is very Unfair Unjust and Unloving.
The God I know loved the whole world so Much that He gave His only Begotten.But Hes gonna send most to hell.Evn those who die without Ever hearing His name Let alone havn a chance to accept him.Now tell me thats a Loving Kind Just Merciful God.
@seechig- We will all be judged by our works, and if we don't do works, Christ will say he never knew us. So they are an important aspect of being Christian. They may not save us, but they certainly can cause us to lose our salvation if we break the commandments continually.
@wellsjdan You miss the point: you CAN NOT break the laws continually if you have been saved. If what you see a saved Christian breaking the laws continually, that's the evidence there was no true conversion in his life, he wasn't born again, he isn't truly saved. Works can't gain us salvation, salvation and the change of heart results in a natural will to "work for Christ".
@fakirJ-You miss the point: you CAN NOT break the laws continually if you have been saved.
You cannot break laws when your saved? What God won't allow it? roll eyes, I know many Christians who I see daily sinning. For you to niavly say they "cannot" break laws, It happens DAILY.
You are not perfect sir, far from it, so YOU DO break laws.
@seechig ephesians 2:8-9 and titus 3:5... after reading these few verses, why is there even a question about works?
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
As the scripture clearly states.We are Saved by Grace thru Faith.
Faith without works IS dead?Tts 3:7...made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life.Salvation is a "Hope" Not a sure thing.We must show faith thru worksTts 3:8...good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
@seechig ephesians 2:8-9 and titus 3:5... after reading these few verses, why is there even a question about works?
These verses and the ones I quote in Titus clearly state that we do indeed need works.Believing and accepting is Not enuff
Titus 3:8
This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
@jferristube...you missed the contex and previous verses completely. those who are saved are heirs with an inheritance. Dont think that only your past and present sins are forgiven but not your future sins.. that is a false idea. If that is true, you will never get to Heaven. All your sins were future when the saviour died on the cross and thus paid in full. (john 3:36 and my favorite john 10:28.) Now when a believer sins God has another way of dealing with that person, its a family matter.
i think that it's grace that saves us and not works. i think works are good because we show our love for one another when we do them but that shouldn't be what saves us. if we do works expecting to get a reward in heaven for doing them then that's as good as not doing them because there's no charity there because charity (pure love) is doing something without expecting anything in return. plus you're not humble if you think you deserve salvation through grace because no human deserves it.
@lizardhayes- i think that it's grace that saves us and not works
Not according to the Bible, it speaks of both being important, Of course in the end Grace will have to save us as we are all human, but our works is what we will be judged by, and our works can cause us to lose our salvation if we don't endure to the end.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven" (Matt. 7:21, 22).
He had to let the caller go since he would have beat him in the debate. Robert Sungenis in his book 'Not By Faith Alone" destroys this guys argument here. It's not either /or. And Paul was referring to works under the law of obligation not the law of grace.
Robert Sungenis in his book 'Not By Faith Alone" destroys this guys argument here. It's not either /or.
It's both is right, otherwise Christ would not have reinforced, commanded, and repeated over and over to keep the commands and ENDURE TOT HE END. I love how guys like Mccrany like to say once saved the works follow, not always, and not a given, we all have free agency, we can choose to not help the needy, not help the widows, not be Christlike, thus we are as James said, dead.
@wellsjdan You Mormons are all the same. Parroting robots. You say that about everyone who tries to show you that Mormon doctrine is not in agreement with God's Holy Word. But then Mormons say, "Oh but the Bible is not translated correctly." Okay, show me where and we will skip over those verses but the rest of it still proves Mormonism is false.
Looks like Satan? So you know Satan personally do you? If your a Mormon, you might, since you believe he's your brother.
Mormon doctrine is not in agreement with God's Holy Word
It's just the opposite, Mainstream Christians are not following much of the Bible, including Baptism as a necessity, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, the whole concept of the trinity is false, as Acts 7:56 shows two personages. The concept of one can't fall after being "saved" is false, as Heb 6:4-6 shows clearly one can fall, Apostles and Prophets being part of Christs orginal church, you don't even have them. I could go on, but you get it.
You should go ahead and watch all of Shawn's shows from his web site or here on YouTube. He answers all these topics quite clearly. And yes I agree, one can lose salvation, but not because they don't follow a religion.
You should go ahead and watch all of Shawn's shows from his web site or here on YouTube.
His answers are his interpretation of scripture, unfortunatly, he has no qualifications nor education to be answering questions about the Bible, He's basically doing what many bible thumpers do, interpret the bible, with no education or proohecy, the later being the most important.
wow, they didn't say that about him for the forty years he was a Mormon. But now that he isn't, he is suddenly dumb?
Maybe they did, how do you know? LOL He certainly is not qualified to be preaching and interpreting scripture. He's an arrogant prideful guy, laughing and joking with his fake audience (family members) about the Mormons who call in, His screeners don't let scholars on that would own and school him, he's a phoney.
@wellsjdan 1 Cor 12:27: Together you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of that body.28 In the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to govern, and those who can speak in different languages. We do have these offices in Christ. But God uses many and not just one who rules like a monarchy.
@manderbos - The word was made flesh, the word is Christ, Christ lived as a spirit child of God before he came her, as did we, Christ is part of the Godhead, but make no mistake, he is NOT the same personage as the father, the trinity is false, Stephen in Acts 7:56 sees both of them, nuff said about the false doctrine of the trinity.
Some Book of Mormon verses supports One God and not just one in purpose. Oop's or is that an error? In Alma 11, ..Is the Son of God the" very" Eternal Father?....Yea, he is the "very" Eternal Father of heaven and of earth...
2 Nephi 31; this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God.. / Mormon 7:7 & 2 Nephi 31:21
God is Spirit; Alma 18 ... this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things..
One God and not just one in purpose. Oop's or is that an error
No error, it's a analogy, giving the symbolic nature of God and his literal son being one in purpose, unity, and power, not one in body. Stephen sees two people, end of story.
Christians mix up that "one" is not in body, but one in purpose.
some Book of Mormon verses supports One God and not just one in purpose. Oop's or is that an error?
No error, it's just as the bible teaches, the "onenes" of God and the son is an analogy, not literal. They are "one" in unity, doctrine, and power, not one person. roll eyes. This is lost in Christianity with the confusing doctrine of the trinity. God said he is not the auther of confusion, well hello, the trinity is confusing, not of God. Try again.
Is the Son of God the" very" Eternal Father?....Yea, he is the "very" Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
He is our father in the sense that he is the father of our salvation. And the Godhead is interchangable, as they are "one" in power, unity, and callings.
It's only confusing when you try to compare it to the interpretation of men (preachers) who are not qualified to be interpreting Gods words to begin with.
Unless you can explain all the contradictions and errors, for example explain the two differernt and contradictory scriptures about Pauls story onf the road to demascus, or how one are of the bible it says man can't see God, but many people have seen God, including Stephen (acts 7:56) Moses and 74 elders of isreal saw god. Ex 24, There are literally thousands, I will give more after you explain these.
@wellsjdan Acts 7:55; But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
9And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Notice it say's Stephen saw the glory(light) of God and said," Jesus." Calling upon "GOD" and saying "JESUS". No distinction of being 2 different gods.
By Mormon teaching he should have saw God and said, Father.
@wellsjdan Question. When you die and your body is in earth and your spirit is elsewhere, are you two yous or are you still wellsjdan. Why is it so hard to accept God can do anything. He is everywhere at once, knows everything, knows your thoughts, created the universe with His spoken word. And you try to put Him in a box and say He cannot have threes personages and be one God. Yet you were create in his image; Body, mind, and spirit. You blaspheme God by saying there are others
Never said God couldn't do anything, but Gods word says he is not the author of confusion, and the trinity is confusion personified. Do you know the history of the trinity doctrine? Catholic Priests voted on what they would believe about God at Nicene in AD 400 or so. Before that, the trinity was not doctrine. It' is man made, it is false, God does not pray to himself, Christ says the father is greater than he for a reason.
@wellsjdan The trinity is not confusing unless you think you "have" to wrap you sinful "mind" around the holiness of God. The Nicene is not why I believe in the trinity. It is in the Bible, but you refuse to see. Since you watched this video, watch one more. Watch Shawn explain the trinity with scripture, by the way, the Catholics got it from scripture too.
@wellsjdan Your so condescending, I do not have a preacher to ask. The Holy Spirit is all I need. Jesus is my High Priest. If you are rolling your eyes, is that not complete arrogance and pride, the very thing you accused Shawn of being?
One Godhead, as the bible speaks of a Godhead. Three Gods, one Godhead, there really is no definition that defines this. They try to call us Polytheisic, we believe for us their is one Godhead. As I said, Acts 7:56 is clear, he sees two people, God, and Jesus standing on his right hand, can't get any clearer than that, unless you want to call the bible a liar? roll eyes.
Why? The bible says there are Gods many, but to us one God, so why is it blashempy to repeat what the bible teaches? God said he would give his saints mysteries of the kingdom, we have some of those, like the vastness of time, there being other worlds, other Gods, other people.
@manderbos and say He cannot have threes personages and be one God. Yet you were create in his image; Body, mind, and spirit. You blaspheme God by saying there are others
You say that god the father nd Christ cud Not possibly have appeared to Joseph as 2 seperate individuals each with ther own seperate Glorified Perfected Seperate bodies thus denying Their power.
Body mind spirit?The mind IS the spirit.Our living soul is the physical body with the Spirit so only 2 entities Not 3
@manderbos He is everywhere at once, knows everything, knows your thoughts, created the universe with His spoken word. And you try to put Him in a box and say He cannot have threes personages and be one God
He is everywhere at once?He personally is not but his influence power n glory Is.They are 3 seperate individs and want us all to be One as they are.One in belief purpose etc.Not One in Body.
@manderbos -No response to my contradictions? You asked, I have more when you answer those. Funny thing is, most christians are taught by their preachers the Bible is perfect, they think it has no errors, it does. Nothing to lose your faith in God about, but it's just reality. Thus the need for Prophets, Apostles to clear up doctrine.
@wellsjdan Honestly I don't know about that contradiction. I could look it up but I'm pretty sure the fact remains that he was stopped in his tracks and converted, in other words it happened. I'll check it out later.
Joseph translated nothing. Your church history says he used his seer stones in his hat to supposedly translate the supposed golden tablets. He read what he saw in the hat and some else wrote it. How is that to be trusted.
Well that doesn't surprise me, most Christians parrot their preachers words that the bible is "perfect" roll eyes, they haven't researched it accept for certain books in the new testement their preachers tell them are important, mostly those in Romans that talk about grace, they cherry pick this, leave out the rest.
Joseph was well versed in the occult, hence the seer stone and Jupiter talisman he carried at all times. He was raised with witchcraft and occult practices by his parents. It is documented by your own church. You need to stop bashing the Bible and start digging a little deeper into you own church history and documentation. Better yet, read the Bible and spend time seeking God, alone.
. He was raised with witchcraft and occult practices by his parents.
He did practices that were normal in his era, you are comparing it to our era, when those things are now considered withcraft, then it was not. He was a spiritual man, trying to use his "spiritual" side to do certain things, God told him to stop, he did. He wasn't perfect, but he was a Prophet.
He's an evil guy, creating a show to mock, deride and put down Mormons is evil, no matter the religion your doing it to. It's bigoted, and disrespectful, He's just another obssessed exmo that can leave the church, but can't leave it alone, because he's under Satans influence.
He's an evil guy, creating a show to mock, deride and put down Mormons is evil, no matter the religion your doing it to. It's bigoted, and disrespectful, He's just another obssessed exmo that can leave the church, but can't leave it alone, because he's under Satans influence. I disagree with mainstream Christianity, and Muslim, and Buddism, but I don't see him doing it to them. He's just a douche bag really. I mean look at him.
This clip is comical in that this fabio wanna be says "God hates pride, and takes it away" Well, he sure hasn't taken it from this clown, he's the most prideful, arrogant, and condescending person I've seen trying to "preach" the gospel. I mean he's smirking and his audience is yelling and laughing at the caller, that's pride man, that's pure pride thinking you are more intelligent and more knowlegeable than others. Douche bag.
I'm not running around trying to be cool like a teenager with a different hairstyle in every video, girly hair and fabio wanna be. LOL , He your dad or something? LOL
We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message
I'm sure we'd agree that one needs to live a Christ like life no? Difference between you and me is I understand those who don't can lose their salvation, whereas you think that that can't happen once saved. I know too many "Christians" that have turned from Christianity to know that it is possible to fall.
@wellsjdan He is trying to show Mormons the truth of the gospel over the Mormon religion. He cares, because he was Mormon and still has family member involve in it. He has often said that if the Mormon church would quite calling themselves Christian, the would leave them alone.
He has often said that if the Mormon church would quite calling themselves Christian, the would leave them alone.
We believe in the same Christ you do, we have differing beliefs about his origins than you do, but it's the same Christ, that you arrogant idiots think you are the judges of others saying they are not "Christian" shows you yourselves are not really Christians. If Shawn the fabio is Christian, I'd rather be an atheist.
@We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message.
I'm sure we have some common ground, but you all throw out too much of the bible to take seriously, Baptism for example, most Chrisians I talk to say it's not necessary, well the bible says differently. (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) just one example, of many.
We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message
I'm sure we could find many things we agree on, but you all throw out too much of the bible to be taken seriously, for example Baptism being a necessity for salvfation (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) Most Christians I speak to say not true, which is clearly not biblical, so a "work" is necessary, just one of many things you throw out, being able to fall another example
The Bible says are works are but filfthy rags. Salvation is through christ alone. There is no salvation by works. Adding works makes salvation by works. If salvation required any works then Jesus dying on the cross is not good enough, but what Jesus did on the Cross is good enough so salvation is through Christ alone. You must simply ask Christ to save you.
@TheConservativesrock "Must simply ask Christ to save you."~ Then He said "Depart from me, those who do iniquity, for I haven't known you." It's not good enough just to ask for salvation. You have to strive for it, always trying, never giving up. You don't get anything in life just sitting on you're behind, do you? Whether it's materialistic things or righteousness, you must give some to get some.
@Cllooude Lets go by what the bibl says. "its not by works of righteousness lest any man should boast." "There is none righteous not one." "for all have sinned and come short of he glory of God." "For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved." "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou SHALT be saved." It says nothing of works saving you. Jesus paid t all. Not some.
James 2: 14, 17-18 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
It warns of "Christian" friends I have that get saved, then have the attitude many of you do about works, they are flilthy, blah blah blah, and do not much Christilike, their faith is dead, as is their salvation. We will ALL be judged by our works Rev 20:12 and our lives
@wellsjdan No faith does not save. Christ saves. Now, here is where you misunderstand this verse. It is is telling those that are saved not to just sit on their butts their whole life. If you want heavy on earth before you die. If you want God's blessing while you are here you'll do His will. If you don't you'll go to Heaven if you accepted him as Savior but you will not be blessed on earth or rewarded in Heaven.
@jferristube Works are not necessary to go to heaven. They are desired by God though and necessary if you wish to please God, be blessed, and rewarded. Blessings could be a lot of things. Answered prayers. Avoided car crashes. Monetary.
@jferristube Works are not necessary to go to heaven. They are desired by God though and necessary if you wish to please God, be blessed, and rewarded. Blessings could be a lot of things. Answered prayers. Avoided car crashes. Monetary.
You also misunderstand it is also talking about if you are saved then you'll have a desire to serve God. If you don't you better do a deep heart check and see if you really meant that prayer.
@wellsjdan Um, no,. But one can say they got saved when they really didn't. You can say a prayer without meaning it. If you think you meant the prayer then you obviously meant it.
So one can be touched by the spiriti of Christ in church, say a prayer, but not really mean it? Huh? roll eyes. Come on dude, ur making no sense. One can be saved, and fall away, it's a biblical concept. Judas was an apostle Chosen by Christ, went on missions, etc, he fell, if he can, anybody can. Unless your saying Christ got fooled? roll eyes.
@wellsjdan The Bible never said whether Judas Iscariot went to Heaven or hell. And yes people can say a prayer without meaning it as in saying one so you'll leave them alone and quit harping on them about it.
@TheConservativesrock - Of course Judas didn't go to heaven. he denied Christ, I know Christians who were once saved who have done the same, or in one case, converted to islam, they saved? The concept of once your saved you can't fall is just a false notion. Christ warns over and over to "not fall" and that we can fall if we are not careful, so again, you have no evidence that your doctrine is biblical.
@wellsjdan Where in the Bible does it say Judas went to hell? Again you are preaching works. You slap God in the face and say he needs your help to save you. God clearly said It's not by works of Righteousness. He said For Whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL saved. He didn't say if. He didn't say as long as. He said SHALL.. If thou shalt confess with the mouth Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou SHALT be saved.
Your the first bible thumper Christian I've seen say Judas is still going to heaven, LOL Even Christ called him a devil, and the Bible says he "fell through sin" Acts 1:25 He fell from his salvation.
The bible preaches works, it says without works we are dead, James 2:26
It also says we will be judged by our works. Rev 20:12 All of us.
Let me let you read it slower, maybe slower for you...
James 2:24, explicitly teaches that faith alone is NOT sufficient for salvation: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (the greek.. "not by faith alone")
Pretty clear it's both.
Revelations says we will be judged by our works. All of us.
You are cherry picking one or two scriptures, foretting the rest of the Bible.
@TheConservativesrock -First you say all one needs to do his confess Jesus, then you say some who do confess Jesus really aren't saved. So which is it? The Bible teaches that some will fall away, it says some will fall through sin, it says some will become sons of perdition, John 17,,, they do this by denying the Holy Ghost, only believers can deny something, so your whole premise is way off. But that's typical, talk to 10 bible thumpers, get 10 differing answers. roll eyes.
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Only Faith can make up for our pitiful attempts to follow God. If you live a "respectable life" or if you are greedy doing nothing for others and Dont believe in Christ most would agree that its impossible to get to Heaven. Is it better to live your entire life in the belief that [ love for others and the work that is a result of that love ] is not necessary ? cause of one single misconception; Faith by Grace alone, Heaven is not just impossible to reach for man alone.. its really hard too.
MrThundermouth 3 days ago
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MrThundermouth 3 days ago
Jesus + Nothing = EVERYTHING ... Jesus + Something = Nothing
WilteredFire 2 months ago
Lets put it like this. what works did the thief on the cross do?
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
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@TheConservativesrock Lets put it like this. what works did the thief on the cross do?
Great point.
Who knows?Do you?And what is your point?Are you saying he went straight to Heaven?
jferristube 5 months ago
@jferristube Jesus assured that the thief will be goin to the kingdom of heaven.
darkestyousibug 5 months ago
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@darkestyousibug Jesus assured that the thief will be goin to the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus said the thief would be with him in paradise.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.The bible clearly shows us this when we read it with an open mind and a sincere desire to know the truth.Read with the Spirit and understand by the spirit.
jferristube 4 months ago
If our faith alone, was even if possibly as equivialent as christs.
MrMeanpeace 5 months ago
The Bible, along with the Book of Mormon, teaches that faith, grace, & conduct (works) are inseparably connected & that during the judgment all men will receive their eternal reward according to their works. Christ teaches us to be the best that we can be. But, we are also taught that because we have all sinned & come short of the glory of God, that we MUST have & believe in Him & His grace in order to enter into a Heavenly reward. We rely on Him & do our best; He does the rest. Praise Jesus.
batterdown 6 months ago 7
@batterdown Conducts? Good Works? Are you saying you played a good part in your salvation? And you will earn your reward according to your good works?
darkestyousibug 5 months ago
@darkestyousibug forgets that the Bible clearly states that conduct (works) is important. LDS simply believe that grace (faith) & conduct (works) are inseparably connected, NOT mutually exclusive. Faith alone cannot save any more that conduct alone can save. We Must have Jesus. Work, grace, conduct, or faith, cannot save without Jesus. As a Christian, my conduct reflects my faith, trust & love of Christ. To be told I can't work for Jesus; you might as well chop off my hands.
batterdown 4 months ago 7
@batterdown Conducts/works is important? Yes it is! But it is not the essence of the salvation. The CONDUCT MUST NOT REFLECT YOUR FAITH BRETHREN. The conduct is simply a small piece of shadow of your faith. There are many things that glorifies God. And back to your church, you got false doctrines and practices that does not glorify God but blaphemes instead. God bless you brother :)
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug has twisted my words. I never said -& the LDS church does not believe- works/conduct is the "essence of salvation". He just keeps ringing the same bell expecting it to sound different. THEN, he uses a worn out method of opposition to LDS beliefs by making a blanket statement against the beliefs, with no references. In a court of law, his testimony would be stricken. You would be wise to strike it also, or ask for specifics. That is my request: Need more input, & I'll respond.
batterdown 4 months ago 5
@batterdown Hello. Good to talk to you after 6 days brother. The thing is you are equally weighting this good works to your faith brother saying that they are not equally exclusive, inseparably connected, blah blah blah. But my point brethren that will ring this bell in a different manner is, the good work is a tiny crumb in your salvation and not a thing to be focused into. And you play dumb on the sound of the bell that says your church BLASPHEMES, IDOLS, and DOES NOT GLORIFY GOD. God Bless:)
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug And this will ring the bell most. If you compare this in a court of law. The judge(God) will strike my Attorney's(Jesus Christ) testimony (God's Word) with my strong evidences (Holy Bible)? And will listen to you(accused) and your attorney (Joseph Smith) showing your awful evidences(book of mormon, pearl of great price, doctrine and covenants)? Think about it good sir ^_^
Brother, may the Holy spirit work with you. If you are one of the chosen elects, God will work in you.GB:)
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug - I say unto you with every fiber of my being, DEPART...YOU BEAST FROM HELL! In the Holy Righteous name of my Savior and My Redeemer, Jesus the Christ. You have no opinion of any worth to the souls of those who read this message. You are but dross. You Do NOT KNOW of the True & Living Christ. He IS my redeemer and HE is the True redeemer. I cast your name to him to be dealt with & to be judged by YOUR works, as I will, & I SHALL be judged BY him of mine. Depart fiend! Now!
batterdown 4 months ago 4
@batterdown Brother. I know the truth about the living Christ. Are you mad because I speak the truth about your religion? If Jesus is your savior and redeemer the write His name on capital letters(at least). Speaking about your judgement. We will not be judged according to our works and you dont even know my "works" but I know some of your works brethren. Speaking evil of 17 yr old boy. Calling him fiend, even he helps you understand the truth? That does not gorify God. Just like your Church. GB
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug lies, deceives, twists & manipulates. Beware of this cunning cur in sheep's clothing. He criticizes the smallest thing, & ignores truth in his face. YES, we "will be judge according to our works". It states this clearly, several times in the new Testament, yet He deceitfully gloats of his "strong evidences (...Bible)" He is a fiend & a hound from the "Darkest" depths of the infernal pit with one unholy, impure purpose...LIE. People are chosen because they choose to be chosen.
batterdown 4 months ago 4
@batterdown Your poetic words brother does not make you smart but simply proves that I am talking to an old man. You will be judged according to your works? then poor you coz you'll be going to hell. No man is righteous, especially you who speaks evil of others brethren. We are exempted from God's wrath and God's judgement, you aren't. You say Mormons are obedient for they obey the long list of Bible's to do? never:P. It's more than that that your shallow mind can't understand-_-
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@batterdown Our rewards depend on our work. But our judgement depends what's inside our heart.:P God bless you so much ^_^
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
Shawn reading James 2 in context there is no denying what this caller said. Revelations also teaches that we R judged by works. What Shawn alluded to is also true that w/o relying on Christ we can't do the works and we certainly can't be saved because no matter how good we try to be we will always fall short. When the rich man asked Christ what he lacked to enter heaven Christ reply was sell all U have and give it to the poor. He did not say just believe in me he told him something to do.
peaceliberty4all 7 months ago
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
carolm62 10 months ago
But if you have to "do all you can to receive his grace" it's not "grace"
YamiKazeSora 11 months ago
Lets not confuse Grace & Works because they are one so to speak.In other words, when become saved by grace, works will just be conceived in you.. Its like buy one take one in a sales store promo.
rickpila 1 year ago
@rickpila Christ lists several MUST-DOs in order to "get to heaven"/"be saved" -- "be born again (spirit/water); be baptized; do will of the Father; keep law/commandments; repent; eat flesh/blood; be converted as little children". HE NEVER said "Believe ONLY". Those are words we should not forget & always remember. I think His words & His requirements are important, too. If we don't believe HIM, then we can't say we are Christian & are doomed to miss the mark that He has set for us.
batterdown 11 months ago 14
@batterdown baptism isnt a requirement to be saved.......
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac 's statement may involve semantics. Christ said, when he got baptized,"...for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." If Christ, being perfect found it necessary, how much more necessary is it for us, being sinful? Also, in the great commission at the end of Matthew Christ said: "Go ye & teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, & of the Son, & of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things..I have commanded.." He expects obedience from us.
batterdown 7 months ago 14
@batterdown yes he expects us to keep his commandments,why do all you mormons think you are the only ones doing works???
stop listening to holland,monson and all those other that just claim christians are lazy,doing lip service ect.
the thief on the cross wasnt baptized!!!
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac This video accuses the LDS church for putting too much emphasis on works. I disagree with it and @lilbeave. "All us mormons" do not think we are the only ones doing good. Any true Christian will do all they can to follow Christ. Yes, the thief on the cross wasn't baptized. He went to paradise...Not heaven. LDS believe as Jesus clearly taught that it is necessary; that is why we baptize for the dead.
batterdown 7 months ago 7
@lilbeaveymac why do all you mormons think you are the only ones doing works???stop listening to
holland,monson and all those other that just claim christians are lazy,doing lip service ect.the thief on the cross wasnt baptized!
LDS dont say were the only ones doing good work.
The theif wasnt baptised?Does that mean he was allowed into gods kingdom without baptism?
jferristube 5 months ago
@lilbeaveymac the thief on the cross wasnt baptized!!!
How do you know the thief wasnt baptised?
jferristube 5 months ago
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@batterdown
"Christ said, when he got baptized,"...for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." If Christ, being perfect found it necessary, how much more necessary is it for us, being sinful?"
You mean Christ fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law, therefore as you say it is "necessary" for us to as well? Does the Bible teach that? No.
Continued...
Keruaran 5 months ago
@batterdown Peter a.k.a. Simon denied Christ three times. Is that a good work? Peter doubt Jesus while he walks in the water. But still, Jesus gave the keys of heaven to Peter! It is not because he do good things. It is because of he still believes that Jesus is the son of God! Scribes and Pharisees do good all the time."For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20
darkestyousibug 5 months ago
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@lilbeaveymac baptism isnt a requirement to be saved..
Christ said No man can enter His kingdom unless he is baptised.If we arent baptised then we cant Enter His kingdom.Surely if we are saved it will mean to be in His Kingdom
jferristube 5 months ago
@batterdown Faith alone in Jesus can save. Our good works follow because when we received Christ. We are new creations. You faith is in your good works. And to tell you. "Good work is a very very easy thing to do" unlike faith. Faith in Christ is not just like "I believe in Christ my savior" and I'll do His teachings so I can get to heaven. Faith is more than that. Imagine missionaries dying and being persecuted around the world for Christ's sake? That is what God wanted.
darkestyousibug 5 months ago
@darkestyousibug would have you believe that faith in Christ automatically makes your conduct change. That is true only so far. We still have an obligation to Christ to allow the change(s) to occur. He doesn't compel or force; he invites. Yes, each of us are all equally dammed without the mercy & grace of the Lord Jesus. But he also says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." He judges, (or quantifies our Love toward him) & rewards us according to the way that we show that love (works/conduct).
batterdown 5 months ago 4
@batterdown Sir, you don't even know what is this "faith in Jesus Christ" is. This is the hardest thing to do as Christians. This is not simply believing Jesus Christ, it is believing in something we don't see but we feel. Faith is living in his gospel. Faith is fighting for the right gospel. Imagine thousands of Christians persecuted because of simply saying their Christ is alive? Thats the essence of it. Faith. Our hearts are changed by the Holy Ghost. In the first place. Men are created cont.
darkestyousibug 5 months ago
@darkestyousibug cont. Men are created without any love for Christ. We turned away from Christ because we chose darkness rather than the light. It was also Jesus Christ that transformed our heart to get back to Him. I say this to you, WE PLAYED NO PART IN OUR SALVATION. And true Christians don't do good works for rewards. If that so, you are like Pharisees worshipping God in vain. Jesus said to them , "leave for I do no know you."
God Bless brethren
from a 17 yr old boy with love :)
darkestyousibug 5 months ago
No... the only way to salvation is through christ and forgiveness and by grace... works have nothing to do wtih getting saved... Just a note but Christianity is not a religion... its a relationship with christ
killer40dude 1 year ago 2
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@killer40dude works have nothing to do wtih getting saved... Just a note but Christianity is not a religion... its a relationship with christ
Great point.And how do we get that relationship?By doing what he expects of us.
jferristube 5 months ago
1-mormons=I work so i can get saved
2-Christians=I am saved so i work.
I take the second to be Biblical.Our work without love (Jesus) is nothing.So if we don't have Jesus and we do good work we still go to hell.Because who can do GOOD works if he is not saved/if he did not have Jesus in him?
Good works means nothing without Jesus,without being saved.
Thanks Shawn
teriiura 1 year ago
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ThomasWinkworth 8 months ago
@ThomasWinkworth for the existence of my good work id to please God, so save me from hell.and not from the fear of hell, because you can still hate Jesus but do some kind of good work.
teriiura 7 months ago
@teriiura 1-mormons=I work so i can get saved
2-Christians=I am saved so i work.
So you get you reward and then you work.
If LDS work to get the reward it wud make more sense.With yur "WAY" you are telling god that unless one is saved first(Gets ther reward first)then yull do the good works.Save me first god then youll be a good boy.Seems backwards to me.So many more scriptures sayn that we Must do more than just believe to return to His Kingdom
jferristube 5 months ago
@jferristube John 3:16....believe and you will be saved.So easy, why searching difficult?the scripture is simple.Philippians 2:12 says to work out your salvation, it means you have your salvation already...so work it out.It doesn't say:work FOR your salvation,NO!! i says work your salvation.
If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you have already done the work to enter Heaven.Thanks for the comment
teriiura 5 months ago
@teriiura says to work out your salvation, it means you have your salvation already...so work it out
So what does it mean to "Work it out"?
jferristube 5 months ago
@jferristube it is like your marriage.Work out for your marriage, to make it better and better, not to earn marriage.Work out your salvation, in my opinion is to know more and more Jesus who is God.Thank you for the comment
teriiura 5 months ago
@teriiura Work out for your marriage, to make it better and better, not to earn marriage.Work out your salvation, in my opinion is to know more and more Jesus who is God
Cool answer.I like it.
Is that how we get to know him better?Come closer to Him?Learn more of him and how he can work in our lives?
And how do we work out our Salvation?I know how one can work on a marriage to improve it but how do we work out our Salvation?Is it the same as workin on a Marriage?Interesting.
jferristube 5 months ago
@jferristube i would say the same way for a marriage...learn more and more about your spouse, how to make her/him happier and happier with your actions.To really know the heart of God, it is written in the Bible
teriiura 5 months ago
@teriiura you "work out" simply means glorifying God. :) Mormons know nothing about that.
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
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darkestyousibug 4 months ago
Our response to free grace should be:
"Wow! Christ died to save me! I'M SAVED!!!! YAY! I love him for that! Since I love him and believe all that he said, I want to obey him- He's God, after all!"
This obedience leads to a life of assurance and sanctification by the Holy Spirit.
NOT:
" Now that Jesus got my foot in the door, I hope my work is good enough to save me from my sin, here on out." This leads to a life of self-reliance, serious finger-crossing and hoping you're good enough.
brizbot 1 year ago
@brizbot Now that Jesus got my foot in the door, I hope my work is good enough to save me from my sin, here on out." This leads to a life of self-reliance, serious finger-crossing and hoping you're good enough
Betta than thinkn Im saved and all other christians who dont believe as U do will go strait to hell.
What of the millions who die without ever hearn the Gospel or hav a chance to accept Him?Yur god sends them to Hell?Infants who die Also go to hell?
And Yes my own self reliance on Christ.
jferristube 5 months ago
Our response to free grace should be:
"Wow! Christ died to save me! I'M SAVED!!!! YAY! I love him for that! Since I love him and believe all that he said, I want to obey him- He's God, after all!"
This obedience leads to a life of assurance and sanctification by the Holy Spirit.
NOT:
" Now that Jesus got my foot in the door, I hope my work is good enough to save me from my sin, here on out." This leads to a life of self-reliance, serious finger-crossing and hoping you're good enough.
brizbot 1 year ago
Kind of sounds like mormons today.... the laws and ordinances of the Gospel are intended to stir us up to a rememberance of the Lord. But for some reason it seams to have turned into a checklist of "if I do these things I am saved." NOOOO!!! Couldn't be more wrong! It is really all about intent. If your heart is not in it, it doesn't matter. And your heart can only be "in it", once you have been born again, and forsaken the things of the world and committed yourself to the Lord.
paulbunyan2435 1 year ago
Shawn you are exactly right that works come as a result of being saved by Grace. That we should be doing the will of the Father because of the price that His son paid for us. However, to obtain grace requires works. Christ only saves those that accept Him as who He says He is. You only come to know God by humble prayer, and constant studying of the Word which leads to repentance. The Holy Spirit will testify of the divinity of Christ's story and His atonement.
paulbunyan2435 1 year ago
Also, I feel you are taking the scripture, grace is no more grace out of context. I am not a bible scholar, but I think he is talking about the law of Moses and the Jews in chapter 10 and 11 of Romans. Saying that they are now saved by Grace and not the law, otherwise grace would not be grace if you will. But what was the purpose of the law? The intent was to stir them up to rememberance of God at all times, but for some reason, the Jews thought they just had to live it and would be saved...
paulbunyan2435 1 year ago
In other words, this guy thinks you can do anything you want, even murder, & still get into Heaven. I mean if works doesn't matter then you shouldn't have to repent right? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the atonement?
majinish 1 year ago
@maj-In other words, this guy thinks you can do anything you want, even murder, & still get into Heaven. I mean if works doesn't matter then you shouldn't have to repent right? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the atonement?
Good points. I mean the Bible says the that true religion is.... and mentions works. Not just belief and then all is done.. roll eyes. they have it so backwards.
They say "works automatically follow" Baloney, I know many Christians that are theives.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan Yea, what about the FLDS? They believe in Christ and I'm pretty sure Mr. Warren isn't on good terms with God.
majinish 1 year ago
@maj-
hey maj, let me try to explain it differently, because it seems like you could have misunderstood. You mention doing "anything you want, even murder, & still getting into Heaven". This is not what salvation is about. Christians understand that Christ has given his life to save ours. As such, we give our life back. Not to save ourselves, but as a response to the fact that we HAVE BEEN saved! A believer does works out of loving obedience, not hope for salvation. We are sure of our salvation.
brizbot 1 year ago
@brizbot =Christians understand that Christ has given his life to save ours. As such, we give our life back
I'm sure you've know a Christian or two who have "backslidden" or even left Christanity all together, I know a few, many in fact. So your point is moot really, as our works is obviously a part of the equation other than just a belief. "Faith without works is dead being alone"
We all can fall from salvation just as Judas did.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan Then they are not Christian after all. Do you think a life surrendered to Christ can even think of stealing? A true Christian always prays for Christ for a heart that hates sinning but men always fall short. Even Christians. The difference is, Christians repent their sins, and they struggle from their sins. IF we are judged according to our works. We will all go to hell.
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug-Are you saying once saved you become perfect? Not subject to human frailties and emotions? Can never sin? roll eyes. Come on.... roll eyes
There are many examples of Christians in the Bible sinning, Prophets sinned in the OT, New Testement we have an apostle of Christ sinning.
God is not has hateful as mainstream Christianity makes him out to be.
wellsjdan 4 months ago
@wellsjdan Once received Christ, we are new creations. We received a new heart that like God's, a heart that hates sin, a heart that is holy. But since we are humans, we always fall short and tempted. That is why even Christians sin. But the difference is we struggle from our sin. And yes we are perfect. When we received Christ in our hearts, we are perfect. For our sins were cleansed at the cross. Can you site prophets from the bible thats sinned but does not turned back to God and still saved?
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug - You contradict yourself, first you said if Christians sin they were never Christians after all, and that they become new creatures, now admit all Christians still sin. Which is it? roll eyes.
The apostle Judas, whom was chosen by Christ as one of his 12 apostles, was a believer, then Christ says he became a devil thru sin, and fell, this can happen to all of us if not careful, that's why there is so many scriptures that warn to not fall from grace (Gal 5:4)
wellsjdan 4 months ago
@wellsjdan Judas is prophesized to betray God, we can do nothing bout it. Brethren, i did not say Christians don't sin. You said that a man save can murder and kill and sin anyway he/she like, of course that is not a Christian. Christian will not do that, not only mormons lol. All I can say is that. Christians hate sins just like God. And if we do sin, we hate it and fell sorry for it and struggle from it. How hard is it to absorb brother? I said it like three times already -_-. But still, GB:)
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
@darkestyousibug- You did say Christians do not sin, you said they become a new creature, and said that if they do sin they weren't saved. So you contradict yourself. Of course Christians can sin, and of course they can fall if they are not careful, that's why Christ warns over and over to not fall from grace (Gal 5:4) David the Prophet in the OT also fell from Sin. So your beliefs are not biblical, and they are your own, other Christians agree.
wellsjdan 4 months ago 2
@wellsjdan- Darkest (appropriate name for a Son of Satan) uses the typical, incomprehensible technique of circular reasoning. "Once you are saved, you are always saved." Then, what about the Christian that goes out and decides to murder. "Well, then they really weren't saved in the first place." Leave him alone. Dust your feet of him. He is in league with the Father of all lies. ("Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God." Once more, and you will feel the scourge of Zecharias.)
batterdown 4 months ago 4
@batterdown -True, the logic of mainstream Christians on being saved is circular and illogical, not to mention not biblical. Gal 5:4 says one can fall from Grace, and there is many other warnings of being fallen, The most funny is they say Judas, an apostle of Christ, choosen by Christ as a believer, was not really saved. roll eyes. LOL
wellsjdan 4 months ago 2
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wellsjdan 4 months ago
@majinish Wow. So you think a heart with Christ in it can murder? Speaking of murder, we all murdered our Saviour. We killed Him.
darkestyousibug 4 months ago
only grace saves us. the works are a natural RESULT of the genuines of the conversion. looking at it from another side you get to realize that there is possible to see righteous people at the first look ( that try to win their way to heaven by WORKS) that are not truly saved but it is ~I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E~ to see a saved Christian living in a continues state of unrighteousness, that doesn't mean that the Christian is basing on works, only that his conversion was genuine.
fakirJ 1 year ago
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@fakirJ -only grace saves us. the works are a natural RESULT
This is a contradiction, if only Grace saves us, but what if we DON"T do good works or fall from doing good works? Or leave Christ all together, then those are our bad works, and we are no more saved than a Muslim, or Buddist who doens't beleive in Christ.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@fakirJ only grace saves us. the works are a natural RESULT of the genuines of the conversion
God will not recognise the good His children of other beliefs.Theygo strait to hell?Hmm Interesting.Seems yur god is very Unfair Unjust and Unloving.
The God I know loved the whole world so Much that He gave His only Begotten.But Hes gonna send most to hell.Evn those who die without Ever hearing His name Let alone havn a chance to accept him.Now tell me thats a Loving Kind Just Merciful God.
jferristube 5 months ago
ephesians 2:8-9 and titus 3:5... after reading these few verses, why is there even a question about works???????
seechig 1 year ago
@seechig- We will all be judged by our works, and if we don't do works, Christ will say he never knew us. So they are an important aspect of being Christian. They may not save us, but they certainly can cause us to lose our salvation if we break the commandments continually.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan You miss the point: you CAN NOT break the laws continually if you have been saved. If what you see a saved Christian breaking the laws continually, that's the evidence there was no true conversion in his life, he wasn't born again, he isn't truly saved. Works can't gain us salvation, salvation and the change of heart results in a natural will to "work for Christ".
fakirJ 1 year ago
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@fakirJ-You miss the point: you CAN NOT break the laws continually if you have been saved.
You cannot break laws when your saved? What God won't allow it? roll eyes, I know many Christians who I see daily sinning. For you to niavly say they "cannot" break laws, It happens DAILY.
You are not perfect sir, far from it, so YOU DO break laws.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan well put. if works doesn't matter then there's no need for repentance which defeats the purpose of the atonement.
majinish 1 year ago
@seechig ephesians 2:8-9 and titus 3:5... after reading these few verses, why is there even a question about works?
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
As the scripture clearly states.We are Saved by Grace thru Faith.
Faith without works IS dead?Tts 3:7...made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life.Salvation is a "Hope" Not a sure thing.We must show faith thru worksTts 3:8...good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
jferristube 5 months ago
@seechig ephesians 2:8-9 and titus 3:5... after reading these few verses, why is there even a question about works?
These verses and the ones I quote in Titus clearly state that we do indeed need works.Believing and accepting is Not enuff
Titus 3:8
This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
jferristube 5 months ago
@jferristube...you missed the contex and previous verses completely. those who are saved are heirs with an inheritance. Dont think that only your past and present sins are forgiven but not your future sins.. that is a false idea. If that is true, you will never get to Heaven. All your sins were future when the saviour died on the cross and thus paid in full. (john 3:36 and my favorite john 10:28.) Now when a believer sins God has another way of dealing with that person, its a family matter.
seechig 4 months ago
i think that it's grace that saves us and not works. i think works are good because we show our love for one another when we do them but that shouldn't be what saves us. if we do works expecting to get a reward in heaven for doing them then that's as good as not doing them because there's no charity there because charity (pure love) is doing something without expecting anything in return. plus you're not humble if you think you deserve salvation through grace because no human deserves it.
lizardhayes 1 year ago
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@lizardhayes- i think that it's grace that saves us and not works
Not according to the Bible, it speaks of both being important, Of course in the end Grace will have to save us as we are all human, but our works is what we will be judged by, and our works can cause us to lose our salvation if we don't endure to the end.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
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"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven" (Matt. 7:21, 22).
EscapeNewJersey 1 year ago
He had to let the caller go since he would have beat him in the debate. Robert Sungenis in his book 'Not By Faith Alone" destroys this guys argument here. It's not either /or. And Paul was referring to works under the law of obligation not the law of grace.
trencher7 1 year ago
Robert Sungenis in his book 'Not By Faith Alone" destroys this guys argument here. It's not either /or.
It's both is right, otherwise Christ would not have reinforced, commanded, and repeated over and over to keep the commands and ENDURE TOT HE END. I love how guys like Mccrany like to say once saved the works follow, not always, and not a given, we all have free agency, we can choose to not help the needy, not help the widows, not be Christlike, thus we are as James said, dead.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
This dude looks like a drunk Fabio, or stoned, or both, my gosh, he looks satanic.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan You Mormons are all the same. Parroting robots. You say that about everyone who tries to show you that Mormon doctrine is not in agreement with God's Holy Word. But then Mormons say, "Oh but the Bible is not translated correctly." Okay, show me where and we will skip over those verses but the rest of it still proves Mormonism is false.
Looks like Satan? So you know Satan personally do you? If your a Mormon, you might, since you believe he's your brother.
manderbos 1 year ago
Mormon doctrine is not in agreement with God's Holy Word
It's just the opposite, Mainstream Christians are not following much of the Bible, including Baptism as a necessity, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, the whole concept of the trinity is false, as Acts 7:56 shows two personages. The concept of one can't fall after being "saved" is false, as Heb 6:4-6 shows clearly one can fall, Apostles and Prophets being part of Christs orginal church, you don't even have them. I could go on, but you get it.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan
You should go ahead and watch all of Shawn's shows from his web site or here on YouTube. He answers all these topics quite clearly. And yes I agree, one can lose salvation, but not because they don't follow a religion.
manderbos 1 year ago
You should go ahead and watch all of Shawn's shows from his web site or here on YouTube.
His answers are his interpretation of scripture, unfortunatly, he has no qualifications nor education to be answering questions about the Bible, He's basically doing what many bible thumpers do, interpret the bible, with no education or proohecy, the later being the most important.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan wow, they didn't say that about him for the forty years he was a Mormon. But now that he isn't, he is suddenly dumb?
manderbos 1 year ago
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wow, they didn't say that about him for the forty years he was a Mormon. But now that he isn't, he is suddenly dumb?
Maybe they did, how do you know? LOL He certainly is not qualified to be preaching and interpreting scripture. He's an arrogant prideful guy, laughing and joking with his fake audience (family members) about the Mormons who call in, His screeners don't let scholars on that would own and school him, he's a phoney.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@manderbos wow, they didn't say that about him for the forty years he was a Mormon. But now that he isn't, he is suddenly dumb?
Bcos he accepted taught believed and preached the Gospel as LDS know it.
jferristube 5 months ago
@wellsjdan 1 Cor 12:27: Together you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of that body.28 In the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to govern, and those who can speak in different languages. We do have these offices in Christ. But God uses many and not just one who rules like a monarchy.
manderbos 1 year ago
But God uses many and not just one who rules like a monarchy.
Your faith have 12 apostles as Christ said his church would? Yea, didn't think so.
How about Prophets? Name one, what has he prophesied? Anything? Yea, didn't think so.
Your church is NOT biblical.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan
Is 43:10; .. I am the true God. There was no God before me, and there will be no God after me.
Is 44: 6; ...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Is 44: 8;....Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Is 45: 22; Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
John 1:1; 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh
manderbos 1 year ago
@manderbos - The word was made flesh, the word is Christ, Christ lived as a spirit child of God before he came her, as did we, Christ is part of the Godhead, but make no mistake, he is NOT the same personage as the father, the trinity is false, Stephen in Acts 7:56 sees both of them, nuff said about the false doctrine of the trinity.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan
Some Book of Mormon verses supports One God and not just one in purpose. Oop's or is that an error? In Alma 11, ..Is the Son of God the" very" Eternal Father?....Yea, he is the "very" Eternal Father of heaven and of earth...
2 Nephi 31; this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God.. / Mormon 7:7 & 2 Nephi 31:21
God is Spirit; Alma 18 ... this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things..
manderbos 1 year ago
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One God and not just one in purpose. Oop's or is that an error
No error, it's a analogy, giving the symbolic nature of God and his literal son being one in purpose, unity, and power, not one in body. Stephen sees two people, end of story.
Christians mix up that "one" is not in body, but one in purpose.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
some Book of Mormon verses supports One God and not just one in purpose. Oop's or is that an error?
No error, it's just as the bible teaches, the "onenes" of God and the son is an analogy, not literal. They are "one" in unity, doctrine, and power, not one person. roll eyes. This is lost in Christianity with the confusing doctrine of the trinity. God said he is not the auther of confusion, well hello, the trinity is confusing, not of God. Try again.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
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manderbos 1 year ago
@wellsjdan I knew you were going to respond with that answer. That is what they say to cover for those versus.
Is the Son of God the" very" Eternal Father?....Yea, he is the "very" Eternal Father of heaven and of earth...
You would have to twist it really hard to mean the other.
manderbos 1 year ago
Is the Son of God the" very" Eternal Father?....Yea, he is the "very" Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
He is our father in the sense that he is the father of our salvation. And the Godhead is interchangable, as they are "one" in power, unity, and callings.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
I know Mormonism, talk about confusion.
Well if you think the Christians got it wrong, then so did Abraham and all the Jews who believe what God said about himself.
manderbos 1 year ago
I know Mormonism, talk about confusion
It's only confusing when you try to compare it to the interpretation of men (preachers) who are not qualified to be interpreting Gods words to begin with.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
Oh but the Bible is not translated correctly
Unless you can explain all the contradictions and errors, for example explain the two differernt and contradictory scriptures about Pauls story onf the road to demascus, or how one are of the bible it says man can't see God, but many people have seen God, including Stephen (acts 7:56) Moses and 74 elders of isreal saw god. Ex 24, There are literally thousands, I will give more after you explain these.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan Acts 7:55; But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
9And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Notice it say's Stephen saw the glory(light) of God and said," Jesus." Calling upon "GOD" and saying "JESUS". No distinction of being 2 different gods.
By Mormon teaching he should have saw God and said, Father.
manderbos 1 year ago
and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
Two people. Period, end of the trinity bogus doctrine.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan Question. When you die and your body is in earth and your spirit is elsewhere, are you two yous or are you still wellsjdan. Why is it so hard to accept God can do anything. He is everywhere at once, knows everything, knows your thoughts, created the universe with His spoken word. And you try to put Him in a box and say He cannot have threes personages and be one God. Yet you were create in his image; Body, mind, and spirit. You blaspheme God by saying there are others
manderbos 1 year ago
Why is it so hard to accept God can do anything.
Never said God couldn't do anything, but Gods word says he is not the author of confusion, and the trinity is confusion personified. Do you know the history of the trinity doctrine? Catholic Priests voted on what they would believe about God at Nicene in AD 400 or so. Before that, the trinity was not doctrine. It' is man made, it is false, God does not pray to himself, Christ says the father is greater than he for a reason.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan The trinity is not confusing unless you think you "have" to wrap you sinful "mind" around the holiness of God. The Nicene is not why I believe in the trinity. It is in the Bible, but you refuse to see. Since you watched this video, watch one more. Watch Shawn explain the trinity with scripture, by the way, the Catholics got it from scripture too.
manderbos 1 year ago
@manderbos -- You going to skip my contradictions? Or do you need time to go ask your preacher so you can parrot him? LOL roll eyes
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan Your so condescending, I do not have a preacher to ask. The Holy Spirit is all I need. Jesus is my High Priest. If you are rolling your eyes, is that not complete arrogance and pride, the very thing you accused Shawn of being?
manderbos 1 year ago
He cannot have threes personages and be one God.
One Godhead, as the bible speaks of a Godhead. Three Gods, one Godhead, there really is no definition that defines this. They try to call us Polytheisic, we believe for us their is one Godhead. As I said, Acts 7:56 is clear, he sees two people, God, and Jesus standing on his right hand, can't get any clearer than that, unless you want to call the bible a liar? roll eyes.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
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You blaspheme God by saying there are others
Why? The bible says there are Gods many, but to us one God, so why is it blashempy to repeat what the bible teaches? God said he would give his saints mysteries of the kingdom, we have some of those, like the vastness of time, there being other worlds, other Gods, other people.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@manderbos and say He cannot have threes personages and be one God. Yet you were create in his image; Body, mind, and spirit. You blaspheme God by saying there are others
You say that god the father nd Christ cud Not possibly have appeared to Joseph as 2 seperate individuals each with ther own seperate Glorified Perfected Seperate bodies thus denying Their power.
Body mind spirit?The mind IS the spirit.Our living soul is the physical body with the Spirit so only 2 entities Not 3
jferristube 5 months ago
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@manderbos He is everywhere at once, knows everything, knows your thoughts, created the universe with His spoken word. And you try to put Him in a box and say He cannot have threes personages and be one God
He is everywhere at once?He personally is not but his influence power n glory Is.They are 3 seperate individs and want us all to be One as they are.One in belief purpose etc.Not One in Body.
jferristube 5 months ago
@manderbos -No response to my contradictions? You asked, I have more when you answer those. Funny thing is, most christians are taught by their preachers the Bible is perfect, they think it has no errors, it does. Nothing to lose your faith in God about, but it's just reality. Thus the need for Prophets, Apostles to clear up doctrine.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
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manderbos 1 year ago
@wellsjdan Honestly I don't know about that contradiction. I could look it up but I'm pretty sure the fact remains that he was stopped in his tracks and converted, in other words it happened. I'll check it out later.
Joseph translated nothing. Your church history says he used his seer stones in his hat to supposedly translate the supposed golden tablets. He read what he saw in the hat and some else wrote it. How is that to be trusted.
manderbos 1 year ago
Honestly I don't know about that contradiction
Well that doesn't surprise me, most Christians parrot their preachers words that the bible is "perfect" roll eyes, they haven't researched it accept for certain books in the new testement their preachers tell them are important, mostly those in Romans that talk about grace, they cherry pick this, leave out the rest.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan
Joseph was well versed in the occult, hence the seer stone and Jupiter talisman he carried at all times. He was raised with witchcraft and occult practices by his parents. It is documented by your own church. You need to stop bashing the Bible and start digging a little deeper into you own church history and documentation. Better yet, read the Bible and spend time seeking God, alone.
manderbos 1 year ago
. He was raised with witchcraft and occult practices by his parents.
He did practices that were normal in his era, you are comparing it to our era, when those things are now considered withcraft, then it was not. He was a spiritual man, trying to use his "spiritual" side to do certain things, God told him to stop, he did. He wasn't perfect, but he was a Prophet.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
Looks like Satan?
He's an evil guy, creating a show to mock, deride and put down Mormons is evil, no matter the religion your doing it to. It's bigoted, and disrespectful, He's just another obssessed exmo that can leave the church, but can't leave it alone, because he's under Satans influence.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
Looks like Satan?
He's an evil guy, creating a show to mock, deride and put down Mormons is evil, no matter the religion your doing it to. It's bigoted, and disrespectful, He's just another obssessed exmo that can leave the church, but can't leave it alone, because he's under Satans influence. I disagree with mainstream Christianity, and Muslim, and Buddism, but I don't see him doing it to them. He's just a douche bag really. I mean look at him.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
This clip is comical in that this fabio wanna be says "God hates pride, and takes it away" Well, he sure hasn't taken it from this clown, he's the most prideful, arrogant, and condescending person I've seen trying to "preach" the gospel. I mean he's smirking and his audience is yelling and laughing at the caller, that's pride man, that's pure pride thinking you are more intelligent and more knowlegeable than others. Douche bag.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan You need a mirror.
manderbos 1 year ago
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You need a mirror.
You won't see me with girly hair and trying to act like I'm a teenager with my teenage like hairstyles. LOL Fabio wanna be. LOL You him?
wellsjdan 1 year ago
You need a mirror.
I'm not running around trying to be cool like a teenager with a different hairstyle in every video, girly hair and fabio wanna be. LOL , He your dad or something? LOL
wellsjdan 1 year ago
We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message
I'm sure we'd agree that one needs to live a Christ like life no? Difference between you and me is I understand those who don't can lose their salvation, whereas you think that that can't happen once saved. I know too many "Christians" that have turned from Christianity to know that it is possible to fall.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan He is trying to show Mormons the truth of the gospel over the Mormon religion. He cares, because he was Mormon and still has family member involve in it. He has often said that if the Mormon church would quite calling themselves Christian, the would leave them alone.
manderbos 1 year ago
He has often said that if the Mormon church would quite calling themselves Christian, the would leave them alone.
We believe in the same Christ you do, we have differing beliefs about his origins than you do, but it's the same Christ, that you arrogant idiots think you are the judges of others saying they are not "Christian" shows you yourselves are not really Christians. If Shawn the fabio is Christian, I'd rather be an atheist.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message.
manderbos 1 year ago
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@We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message.
I'm sure we have some common ground, but you all throw out too much of the bible to take seriously, Baptism for example, most Chrisians I talk to say it's not necessary, well the bible says differently. (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) just one example, of many.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
We do not believe the same on any doctrine. You have a different God completely and a different gospel message
I'm sure we could find many things we agree on, but you all throw out too much of the bible to be taken seriously, for example Baptism being a necessity for salvfation (John 3:5, Mark 16:16) Most Christians I speak to say not true, which is clearly not biblical, so a "work" is necessary, just one of many things you throw out, being able to fall another example
wellsjdan 1 year ago
The Bible says are works are but filfthy rags. Salvation is through christ alone. There is no salvation by works. Adding works makes salvation by works. If salvation required any works then Jesus dying on the cross is not good enough, but what Jesus did on the Cross is good enough so salvation is through Christ alone. You must simply ask Christ to save you.
TheConservativesrock 1 year ago
@TheConservativesrock "Must simply ask Christ to save you."~ Then He said "Depart from me, those who do iniquity, for I haven't known you." It's not good enough just to ask for salvation. You have to strive for it, always trying, never giving up. You don't get anything in life just sitting on you're behind, do you? Whether it's materialistic things or righteousness, you must give some to get some.
Cllooude 1 year ago
@Cllooude Lets go by what the bibl says. "its not by works of righteousness lest any man should boast." "There is none righteous not one." "for all have sinned and come short of he glory of God." "For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved." "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou SHALT be saved." It says nothing of works saving you. Jesus paid t all. Not some.
TheConservativesrock 1 year ago
It says nothing of works saving you.
Actually you are skipping other scripture, such as Mark 16:16 that gives us the way to salvation, it says...
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
So the way to salvation is through a work, baptism, plus belief. If your going to read and claim a belief in the bible, read it all, not just parts.
wellsjdan 1 year ago
Also, more you skip...
James 2: 14, 17-18 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
It warns of "Christian" friends I have that get saved, then have the attitude many of you do about works, they are flilthy, blah blah blah, and do not much Christilike, their faith is dead, as is their salvation. We will ALL be judged by our works Rev 20:12 and our lives
wellsjdan 1 year ago
@wellsjdan No faith does not save. Christ saves. Now, here is where you misunderstand this verse. It is is telling those that are saved not to just sit on their butts their whole life. If you want heavy on earth before you die. If you want God's blessing while you are here you'll do His will. If you don't you'll go to Heaven if you accepted him as Savior but you will not be blessed on earth or rewarded in Heaven.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock If you don't you'll go to Heaven if you accepted him as Savior but you will not be blessed on earth or rewarded in Heaven.
So work Is necessary.What kind of blessings do you speak of?
jferristube 5 months ago
@jferristube Works are not necessary to go to heaven. They are desired by God though and necessary if you wish to please God, be blessed, and rewarded. Blessings could be a lot of things. Answered prayers. Avoided car crashes. Monetary.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@jferristube Works are not necessary to go to heaven. They are desired by God though and necessary if you wish to please God, be blessed, and rewarded. Blessings could be a lot of things. Answered prayers. Avoided car crashes. Monetary.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
You also misunderstand it is also talking about if you are saved then you'll have a desire to serve God. If you don't you better do a deep heart check and see if you really meant that prayer.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock- So one can fall if there prayer wasn't good enough? LOL
wellsjdan 5 months ago
@wellsjdan Um, no,. But one can say they got saved when they really didn't. You can say a prayer without meaning it. If you think you meant the prayer then you obviously meant it.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock= But one can say they got saved when they really didn't.
So one can be touched by the spiriti of Christ in church, say a prayer, but not really mean it? Huh? roll eyes. Come on dude, ur making no sense. One can be saved, and fall away, it's a biblical concept. Judas was an apostle Chosen by Christ, went on missions, etc, he fell, if he can, anybody can. Unless your saying Christ got fooled? roll eyes.
wellsjdan 5 months ago
@wellsjdan The Bible never said whether Judas Iscariot went to Heaven or hell. And yes people can say a prayer without meaning it as in saying one so you'll leave them alone and quit harping on them about it.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock - Of course Judas didn't go to heaven. he denied Christ, I know Christians who were once saved who have done the same, or in one case, converted to islam, they saved? The concept of once your saved you can't fall is just a false notion. Christ warns over and over to "not fall" and that we can fall if we are not careful, so again, you have no evidence that your doctrine is biblical.
wellsjdan 5 months ago
@wellsjdan Where in the Bible does it say Judas went to hell? Again you are preaching works. You slap God in the face and say he needs your help to save you. God clearly said It's not by works of Righteousness. He said For Whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL saved. He didn't say if. He didn't say as long as. He said SHALL.. If thou shalt confess with the mouth Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou SHALT be saved.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock -Where in the Bible does it say Judas went to hell?
Your the first bible thumper Christian I've seen say Judas is still going to heaven, LOL Even Christ called him a devil, and the Bible says he "fell through sin" Acts 1:25 He fell from his salvation.
The bible preaches works, it says without works we are dead, James 2:26
It also says we will be judged by our works. Rev 20:12 All of us.
You contradict yourself (cont)
wellsjdan 5 months ago
@wellsjdan It does not say you are saved by your works.
TheConservativesrock 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock -It does not say you are saved by your works
Let me let you read it slower, maybe slower for you...
James 2:24, explicitly teaches that faith alone is NOT sufficient for salvation: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (the greek.. "not by faith alone")
Pretty clear it's both.
Revelations says we will be judged by our works. All of us.
You are cherry picking one or two scriptures, foretting the rest of the Bible.
wellsjdan 5 months ago
@TheConservativesrock -First you say all one needs to do his confess Jesus, then you say some who do confess Jesus really aren't saved. So which is it? The Bible teaches that some will fall away, it says some will fall through sin, it says some will become sons of perdition, John 17,,, they do this by denying the Holy Ghost, only believers can deny something, so your whole premise is way off. But that's typical, talk to 10 bible thumpers, get 10 differing answers. roll eyes.
wellsjdan 5 months ago