Why Jehovah Witnesses Do not Celebrate Birthdays

[MrJayguess]

@SciBishop Oh, and incidentally, it wasn't a barrel of water but six stone jars of water used for ritual washing (and not drinking) (John 2:1-12) . Just a small point, but highly significant as John uses this story both literally AND symbolically to illustrate not only Christ's divinity but his power over jewish ritualistic religion as well as a foretaste of 'new wine' in the new covenant of Jesus, sealed with his own blood. But, the bottom line is - your're right - He enjoyed a good 'bash'!

[MrJayguess]

@SciBishop Absolutely. And thanks for your support! BTW, your nickname suggests a scientific background? Now an ordained minister, I was once head of science at a high school for around 15 years before retiring, teaching chemistry, astronomy & cosmology. That opens up a whole new debate! But the JW nonsense on this page forgets that we are to ENJOY the life God has given us, through education, compassion, love, enjoyment,- none of which is in the JW vocab. nor allowed by the cult's leaders !

[jason9528]

JOB'S SON CELEBRATE THERE BIRTHDAY

,AND JESUS AND HIS PARENTS CELEBRATE HIS BIRTHDAY THATS WHY AT EVERY YEAR ON THE DAY OF JESUS BIRTHDAY THEY GO TO THE TEMPLE OF THE LORD AND DO GIVE OFFERING ON THERE.AND WATCH TOWER SOCIETY CLEARLY SHOWS EVIDENCE THAT CHRIST BIRTH ON THIS EARTH ON IN THE MONTH OF OCTOBER. BIBLE SHOW NO EVIDENCE THAT WHEN PHARAOH OR HEROD CELEBRATE THERE BIRTHDAY , THAN GOD JEHOVAH ANGRY ON THEM,IF GOD DON'T COMMAND YOU THAN HOW CAN U SAY THESE IN NAME OF GOD.

[MrEnlightenup]

you are right.jw do not know they are in a cult,i realy pity them..its to bad that they are blind to reason and base everything on blind faith..i know something about this .i was born into christian bondage and can relate to how they think..now im a fan of the world of reality...have a darwin day,and dont forget darwin loves you.

[MrEnlightenup]

most of the christians myths such as the virgin birth,the resurrection,and miracles are very UNORIGINAL.these myths have been recycled and rehashed througout the history of religion and belief...there is a plaque in this land ,and it is called mass delusion..have a darwin day.

[MrJayguess]

@StrongBud1 Whoa!! Don't judge religion by the cult known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm a Christian ordained minister and I follow Christ. Jesus enjoyed a good party. Matt11:19/Lk 7:34-35 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’

Most Christians enjoy a good bash - including plenty of food, drink and dancing! I'm no exception! Just because this cult says so, dont brand all Christians as party-poopers!

[MrJayguess]

Luke 2;19 after the extraordinary events surrounding Jesus' birth: "But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart". So, she cherished the day Jesus was born. Moreover, they also celebrated his 12th birthday by visiting Jerusalem for the Passover (Luke 2:41ff). The JWs have some strange theological beliefs, that change with time and which make absolutely no sense and are typical cultic behavour.

[wizardsmuse]

a birthday celebration couldn't possibly be a celebration of the life God gave them could it?

[MrEnlightenup]

look up jehovah witnesses and their cult customs.they write their own bible and prapaganda..its all about brain washing....have a darwin day

[MrJayguess]

@MrEnlightenup Hi. I couldn't agree more. However, please don't confuse JWs and their illogical, unBiblical, cultic belief with the mainstream Christian Church (and I don't mean Creationists either!) . Christians are as concerned as you about the false and bogus teaching they spread in the name of 'Christianity'. However, we should never judge JWs; they are as much a victim of this cult (if only they could see it) as those gullible, vulnerable victims that are drawn into it by them.

[MrEnlightenup]

pagans are fun people.i like birthdays .its better to have a birthday than to be in a cult that wants you to drop out of school you will always be a fool.its called brain washing,and brain dead..

[trailerfitter2]

I bet God has the hump because no one know when his birthday is!

[eternityandforever]

The bible directly states that God urges people to avoid partying and instead reflecting of life,to use it for good because it can end anytime.Eccleciastes 7:1-4. Birthdays bring honor to the birthday person,and this is like a form of worship. It is important to be kind to people everyday,not just on their b-day.Birthday origins are of pagan beginnings. Research it and you will see :D

[MrJayguess]

@eternityandforever Forgive me but that's asolute rubbish. Jesus enjoyed a good party. Matt11:19, Lk 7:34-35 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ Jesus never denied this.In fact he stated the opposite:" I come to bring you life, and life in all its fullness" John 10:10). We are to ENJOY the life God has given us, through education, compassion, love, enjoyment,- none of which is in the JW vocabulary!

[MrJayguess]

@eternityandforever Can I ask, please, where specifically in the Bible does God urge people to avoid partying??? Especially as Jesus and his disciples were indicted by the Pharisees for being 'gluttons' and 'imbibers' - ie, they enjoyed a party? (Matt 11:19, Luke 7: 34-35. Chapter and verse, please.

Last time we communicated you called me an 'apostate' despite never being a JW, and refused to speak with me (fingers in ears, 'la la la'), so, perhaps publicly you could defend your position?

[brofun]

@MrJayguess No where in the bible is 'partying' condemned..however, drunkenss, gluttony, etc ARE condemned...so, what one views as partying could be considered a sin. This video was about birthdays. There are only two birthday parties mentioned in the bible,..both by pagan rulers and at both, someone was killed...this seems to indicate to us that Jehovah's servants did not view their own birth as something to celebrate..also, the jews did not celebrate birthdays when faithful to God.

[torrents4u2c]

If you don't mind I would like to remember my child on the date he was born. Everyone in ancient Israel knew how old they were so someone kept records and someone told someone what day they were born on. I am certain mothers remember their children on the date they were born and made some kind of comment like I remember the day you were born, how beautiful you were, and I'm glad you here with me today. Witnesses are not allowed to do this. So very sad.

[Fizzypop1211]

@StrongBud1

no, you are cornering the market pretty well by yourself. Don't judge everyone else by your standards. Some people think before they shout. Some people think and don't shout. You just make a noise.

[Fizzypop1211]

@StrongBud1

You make my point so well. Idiot.

[MrJayguess]

@Fizzypop1211 Brother, reading your replies here I have to say, sadly, youre SO wrong. So wrong about birthdays, paganism, the horoscope and a load of other stuff. I know that you regurgitate what your JW elders have told you, but they're SO wrong! Forgive me but youre talking absolute rubbish. There are a myriad reasons why! Send me a message in my inbox and I'll let you know categorically why you are confined in a cult rather than a Christian Church - if your elders allow you to, that is ;-)

[Fizzypop1211]

@StrongBud1

and that is why I am irritated by ignorant people who feel obliged to spout their opinions based on reading nothing, studying nothing but taking as gospel "their drunken work mate in the pub" who under any other curcumstances wouldn't be trusted with a dog.

[tpop142]

@zeldaglobin The way people celebrate birthdays today is the same way pagans used to do worshipping their gods, for instance, in birthday's parties people use to make a wish and blow candles, and this is exactly what the pagans used to, the candles are the representation of the godess Mitra the Godess of the Sun, they believed that she would make their wish come true,and you, unfortunately do the same ritual without knowing it. But that's just 1 example there are a lot of more.

[tpop142]

@zeldaglobin That's true, a lot of pagans used to celebrate their wedding, but under their pagan tradition, you know what teh bible tell us about wedding and why it should be celebrated UNDER Jehovah's laws.

[zeldagoblin]

@tpop142 and yet Jws still wear wedding bands and have bridesmaids, both pagan symbols. Hypocrisy.

[dougconley]

wouldn't "remembrance" of someone include that persons entire life(including their birth if you wish) and not just their death? Just sayin....

[October31st1517]

Wrong. Job Son's celebrated their birthdays. (Job 1) The real reason you do not celebrate birthdays is because the faithful & discreet slave tells you not to celebrate birthdays.

[ThirdNUnion]

@October31st1517 prove it

[ThirdNUnion]

@October31st1517 those were not birthdays jobs son celebrated, Ge 40:20; Mt 14:6; Mr 6:21.

[prettycoh20]

Job 1:4—Did Job’s children observe birthdays? No, they did not. The original-language words for “day” and “birthday” are different, each having its own meaning. (Genesis 40:20) At Job 1:4, the word “day” is used, denoting an interval of time from sunrise to sunset. The seven sons of Job apparently held a seven-day family gathering once a year. As they made the circuit, each son was the host of the banquet held at his house on “his own day.”

[BIGDAVID295]

boring and your wrong

[zeldagoblin]

There have also been many terrible pagans who celebrated their wedding. The same goes for wedding anniversaries. In addition to that, the entire marriage ritual is steeped in paganism, the rings, the bridesmaids, the white bridal gown, and so on. Why, then do JWs find it acceptable to celebrate weddings in the traditional sense? I attended countless JW weddings when I was JW, all containing those pagan elements. Could it be that bdays mean association with *shock* The World???? Cult mentality.

[ah0386]

BINGO!!!!

We have winner!

Great comment...

[Fizzypop1211]

@zeldagoblin

Weddings / marriage instituted by God, re-affirmed by Christ whilst on earth. For sure Birthdays mean association with people - maybe you'd agree many birthdays are excess fests, whilst it is more usual to have more restrained and civilized anniversary celebrations. Not compulsory to celebrate annersaries. Birthdays also are aligned to horoscopes and the "guardian angel" / spirit - demonism. Not always, but this world in darkness and ignorance. Do you know what you are condoning?

[zeldagoblin]

@Fizzypop1211 You fail to explain why JWs still wear the wedding band, a pagan symbol, and adhere to the tradition of bridesmaids, which also has pagan origins. Weddings were around long before the bible was written, many ancient pagan ceremonies joining couples predate the bible by thousands of years. Oh wait, you believe that the union of Adam and Eve was the "first wedding". Try reading something not written by your God, the Watchtower Society. I am condoning truth and freedom.

[MrJayguess]

@zeldagoblin Hi... there is one simple reason why JWs celebate weddings and not birthdays. Their misguided inconsistent theology has never been thought nor prayed through, not just the theology about paganism, but even the most imprtant doctrines of the Cross, the resurrection, salvation and judgement. This is simply because they have no learned leaders, nor accountability, except to the Watchtower. It's a case of the blind leading the blind (and gullible) in an unChristian and dangerous cult.

[brofun]

@MrJayguess Your thought that we don't think thru things is absolutly false. We celebrate weddings because Jehovah instituted marriage and Jesus attended a marriage feast. And there is nothing pagan about marriage. What doctrine of the cross?..you mean the stake? What resurrection and salvation and judgement do you feel we are in error about?

[MrJayguess]

@brofun Please look at your email shortly to see a full response. My only concern here in addressing your points, is, 'where on earth do I start?' But, just for the record, there's nothing wrong with marriage. But Jews never used a wedding band on the third finger. That is of pagan origin from Greece and Rome, yet JWs accept it. And,no, I don't mean a stake. There is no evidence whatsoever of a 'stake' and the suggestion is absurd. (Didnt the WT use a cross as a symbol in the 19th C?)

[ETERNALBLACKPROJECTS]

you though are a vile of wasted waters, and a rusted vessel of once cherished bitter wine. he who misleads the least of these, and causes the hearts of those with spirit to wewigh down, and turn away from zeal for the lord, is guilty of christendoms sins, and the blood of all those from the righteous blood of abel, to the blood of our lord CHRIST!!!

[ETERNALBLACKPROJECTS]

so the book, "Knowledge, or wtf ever it was called would then help the readers to understand from a tried and tested group opf people, who probably have studied the bible verses that contribute understanding to that verse before mentioned, and puts it into proper perspective. He who is not against me, is for me.

[ETERNALBLACKPROJECTS]

A book is to help you understand, if someone sees a verse in the bible, and it says, if three gather in my name, i will be present, SAYS THE LORD! .. the book then does a good thing. if someone says. great we got two people, let us get a third person, so we can see God, i'll bake a cake and we can all study in his physical presence. ! duhh.. WTF the dude did not unbderstand the true meaning of the verse.

[ah0386]

I can go on and on, but I let you comment first...

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 with everything you said you didnt address the FACT early Christians did not celebrate Birthdays. You are using man made reasoning.

[DefendingYHWH]

2 Corinthians 6:14-16 "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does Gods temple have with idols"

[DefendingYHWH]

Anniversaries, Graduations Parties, Promotion or achievement parties, Baby showers, Weddings, Going away parties, new home owner parties, Becoming an Elder or MS party has no pagan back ground to it like Birthdays do. The following that were just mention have neutral ground. But as weve seen through scripture anything that has a pagan back ground should be shun by true worshippers of God.

[DefendingYHWH]

If the bible doesnt reflect any true worshippers celebrated birthdays and history confirms they didnt celebrate what gives YOU authority to make it OK?

[ah0386]

No, not me but the bible. Romans 14:5-6 not to judge any man for his holiday or festival. Pretty clear and simple huh?

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 This is referring to JEWISH holiday or festival not PAGAN celebrations do you understand the difference?

[ah0386]

Absolutely, that's what it says in clear and simple context. Whether it's for a jewish holiday or any holiday, do not judge, which you are doing.

I love to see any bible verse that simply says the birthdays are evil, bad or condemn by god,

not with convoluted theories looked at 8 ways backwards from sunday.

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 NO Bible scholar will agree with you that this is referring to "any holiday" pick up a commentary any commentary and that passage is suggesting Jewish holidays, and Birthdays was far from their mind because it was pagan. And if we were to accept your wrong interpretation that would contradict 2 Corinthians 6:14-16.

[DefendingYHWH]

Again, since history confirms that Birthdays was not celebrated by Christians, and the bible doesnt show anyone else celebrating it, what give YOU authority to celebrate a pagan festival?

[ah0386]

More logical fallacies. I'm simply asking for a bible verse in the OT/NT that states you can not celebrate BD's. Making general statements "No bible scholar will agree with me" is an opinion and not fact.

You're putting guilt by association regarding BD's as reason enough.

[DefendingYHWH]

For example, Bible Knowledge Commentary "the One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike (cf. Col. 2:16). Which position a person held meant nothing to the apostle. His concern was that each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" and the only celebration they reference is Col 2:16 "a feast day,, a new moon, or a sabbath day"

[DefendingYHWH]

ALL related to Jewish festivals NOT pagan festivals. Ask your minister about that passage because you are interpreting it wrong. NO ONE would agree with you.

[ah0386]

NO ONE? Don't care to ask "my minister". LOL.

History confirms what? Opinions with no foundation in bible? Again, it's simple. The official stance on WT is that in 2 BD events that were 1600 years apart, BAD things happened.

[DefendingYHWH]

Name at least ONE bible Scholar that would agree with you that Romans 14:5-6 is also referring to pagan holidays, name one and reference their work. I doubt youll find one. At least one please.

[ah0386]

How did I miss this one?

Simply it was written to both Jewish and Gentile converts at Rome. It advises them to accept those who were weak in the faith (Rom. 14:1), and to not dispute with them over insignificant matters, nor sit in judgment of them.

Again, the bible is clear and simple, nor do I feel the need or care to source a particular bible scholars to prove that point. You're going BEYOND the actual meaning, to support a doctrine that's not in the bible.

[DefendingYHWH]

You asked "How did I miss this one" You missed it because you are interpreting it wrong. These practices was regarding the rules under the Mosaic Law, not under pagan. Why would the Jews who converted to Christianity be concerned about pagan holidays?

[DefendingYHWH]

Jews and Christians used such scriptures to justify their reasoning NOT to Celebrate birthdays. Read the following from the bible.

[DefendingYHWH]

Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. And Job spoke, and said:

"May the day perish on which I was born, And the night in which it was said, 'A male child is conceived.' May that day be darkness; May God above not seek it, Nor the light shine upon it. May darkness and the shadow of death claim it; May a cloud settle on it; May the blackness of the day terrify it (Job 3:1-5).

[DefendingYHWH]

The prophet Jeremiah wrote:

14 Cursed be the day in which I was born!

Let the day not be blessed in which my mother bore me! Let the man be cursed

Who brought news to my father, saying,

"A male child has been born to you!"

Making him very glad. And let that man be like the cities Which the LORD overthrew, and did not relent; Let him hear the cry in the morning And the shouting at noon,

[DefendingYHWH]

Because he did not kill me from the womb, That my mother might have been my grave,And her womb always enlarged with me. Why did I come forth from the womb to see labor and sorrow,

That my days should be consumed with shame? (Jeremiah 20:14-18)

[DefendingYHWH]

it should be noted that there are no positive statements in the Old Testament related to birthdays. But according to you Job and The prophet Jeremiah are extremist right? Your views are NOT biblical and you misinterpret scripture. Again, celebrate pagan festivals if you like but dont try to force it on Christians.

[DefendingYHWH]

Oh yeah one more scripture too Ecclesiastes 7:1 "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth." The bible doesnt endorse the celebration of Birthdays. What is your opinion about these scriptures please?

[MrJayguess]

@DefendingYHWH Actually over 2 billion Christians would totally disagree with you, as almost all celebrate birthdays, and see them as a God-given celebration of life. They would also state that, rather than being a Christian church, the WT is little more than a cult - or at best a heretical sect, as the WT denies the divinity of Christ, His bodily resurrection & with the Father and Holy Spirit, his nature as part of the Godhead. So please don't lend credence to your argument in this devious way.

[ah0386]

?????

I'm interpreting it wrong and so that makes you right? Really?

I seriously doubt a celebration is the focal point of any god on whether or not you gain salvation. Especially if any and all context on the meaning is not even the point of the celebration. Who really thinks, if there's any relation, about the pagan practices during a BD?

And here's my opinion. The subject is petty and holds no merit on whether or not you're saved if you celebrate or not.

[ah0386]

Wait a minute, what reference do you have other than a vague Imperial bible dictionary FROM 1874 stating that there was no celebration?

It's "idolotrous worship" from your context. No difference between a BD and the above mentioned parties/celebrations. Please show some substantial proof other wise.

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 If you no ANYTHING about Church History Birthday celebrations was far from the mind of Christians. They viewed it as pagan its just not 1 resource but practically every historical resource on this subject will confirm it. Pick up a book and research its not that difficult.

[ah0386]

And all based on theories. How can you assume, interpret, or claim divine inspiration that bible is really telling us not to celebrate BD's, when there's is absolutely not (1) verse in the OT or NT condemning it?

Making accusation (me not researching) and you assuming ("It reflects", "Christians viewed it" ect) along with making claims with solid references does not make you right. Period.

[DefendingYHWH]

I would "love to see any bible verse that simply says the birthdays are OK to celebrate , and are not bad or are not condemn by god, not with convoluted theories". History confirms Christians and Biblical Jews had nothing to do with the celebration. So who do I listen to? YOU who doesnt know what you are talking about, or concrete evidence from historians and scholars?

[ah0386]

Again, what concrete evidence are we talking about? Assumptions or facts?

I do know there's nothing in the BIBLE condemning birthdays. Still waiting...

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 There is more FACTUAL supporting evidence showing Christians did not celebrate Birthdays. The bible doesnt have to straight out and say it because it wasnt in their mind to celebrate it just wasnt a Christian practice. And Im still waiting for your concrete supporting evidence that its ok to celebrate birthdays.

[ah0386]

Another blanket statement that will some how carry some sort of merit in your own mind.

You know how silly you sound right now by saying "it wasn't in the minds of Christians" of nearly 2000 years ago and assuming doesn't make you right. That's fallacy 101.

And you said it yourself, the bible doesn't say it, period. That's all the "concrete evidence" I need, the rest is a gross speculation based extremist views of few (governing body)...

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 Im not assuming anything its a FACT Christians didnt celebrate birthdays. So Ill just be quite and let the Historians and Scholars do the talking. READ AND LEARN:

[DefendingYHWH]

When we examine the principles of Gods law closely, as they relate to birthday celebrations, we can understand why NEITHER CHRIST,NOR HIS APOSTLES, NOR THEIR TRUE FOLLOWERS, OBERSERVED THEIR BIRTHDAYS. As noted earlier, the practice has its origin in idolatry and the worship of the sun, moon and stars...Some may view birthday customs as purely secular, lacking any religious significance.

[DefendingYHWH]

Yet we need to be aware of the broader perspective of their origins, and the religious significance they have had—and still have—for vast multitudes of people. (Reynolds, Rod. Should Christians Celebrate Birthdays? Living Church News, May-June 2002. pp.16-18).

[DefendingYHWH]

the book The Lore of Birthdays (New York, 1952) by Ralph and Adelin Linton, on pages 8, 18-20 had this to say: The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. .

[DefendingYHWH]

The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune...

[DefendingYHWH]

The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted that Jewish families DID NOT CELEBRATE BIRTHDAYS:Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632).

[DefendingYHWH]

the writings of the early third century Catholic theologian

Origen of Alexandria show that, even that late, Orthodox Catholics were AGAINST THE CELEBRATION OF BIRTHDAYS. The Catholic Encyclopedia states:Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Hom. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, NOT SAINTS, celebrate their birthday (Martindale C. Christmas, 1908).

[DefendingYHWH]

The writings of the late third century Catholic theologian Arnobius show that, even that late, Catholics objected to the celebration of birthdays as he wrote:

[DefendingYHWH]

...you worship with couches, altars, temples, and other service, and by celebrating their games and birthdays, those whom it was fitting that you should assail with keenest hatred. (Arnobius. Against the Heathen (Book I), Chapter 64. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 6. Edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. American Edition, 1886. Online Edition Copyright © 2005 by K. Knight).

[ah0386]

Wow, sourcing Catholicism. Rich.

I wonder if you're willing to source, hellfire, immortal soul, purgatory, ect? You know, what orthodox Catholics believed in, but picking and choosing certain beliefs is ok, as long it's aligned with your doctrines.

Funny at the same time period The Watchtower believed Caucasians were the superior race and the Negro was wonder worker. LOL!

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 Its amazing to me that you only reference "orthodox Catholics" but what about: Reynolds, Rod. Should Christians Celebrate Birthdays? Living Church News,

the Historian Josephus, and the Church Fathers that acknowledged Birthdays were not celebrated, and the other info I documented? Can you find any historical document to prove Birthdays were celebrated?

[ah0386]

You're deflecting-

No it's amazing how JWs can source from other religions as long it's in alignment with their "current" thinking. Cherry picking certain things doesn't make you right.

Asking me to prove if bds were celebrated is not the point. It's NOT condemn in your or any bible, for that matter and we've clarified that

Anything outside of that is an opinion.

[ah0386]

Again, in context. Romans 14:5-6.

Thereby afford occasion if drinking to excess?

Right. SO all bd celebrations are basically drunken fests? Boy, I could introduce you to a few ELDERS that you would drink under table and doesn't have to be a celebration of any sort.

[DefendingYHWH]

You keep bringing up "occasion if drinking to excess" but thats not the PRIME reason s why we dont celebrate Birthdays, its because its origin is pagan, and we try to imitate early Christians. Like I said and history confirms it "it wasnt celebrated".

[ah0386]

Brought it up once. Hasty generalizations again "how history confirms" does not make you right!

Again, it's plain and simple and you're not getting the point. I don't have to show anything, because there's nothing in the bible against it!

[MrJayguess]

@DefendingYHWH You like to imitate early Christians?? Then WHY do you reject the Trinity? This was a doctrine accepted by the early Church from the apostles onwards. polycarp (a pupil of John) and Ireneaus (a pupil of Polycarp), Clement, Tertullian, Origen and all the Church fathers - except Arius whose Arian heresy is the inspiration of the WT lies, ALL accepted the Trinitarian idea of God, the divinity of Christ, and that he died on a cross, not a stake.

[brofun]

@MrJayguess actually, you are wrong. There is NO evidence of any trinity worship in the first century..and only and evolution fo belief that jesus is God in the second century..it was until the third century that Jesus 'became' God..and it was not until the fourth century that the holy spirit became God...officially by the chruch.

[ah0386]

So I Shouldn't eat any cake that's round? Or have any candles? What if the BD cake is square?

Obviously, BD's should be an honor and wishing "good fortune" to the person! I wish nothing but the best.

[DefendingYHWH]

I have no respond to this comment because I never said such a thing, and now you are just looking silly.

[ah0386]

Why? Does it make you the true christian for not celebrating your BD?

Who in the right mind today, thinks of the origins of BDs? Seriously, even if they're riddled with pagan or greek tradition, how does it have the same meaning?

Again extremist views and that a "few" mandate on millions...

[DefendingYHWH]

You have a right to view it as "extremist views". So you are saying Jesus and the rest of the people in the bible are "extremist" too right? You can celebrate YOUR birthday if you wish, but Christians dont celebrate their birthdays. There is no record of any Jews or Christians celebrating their birthday so dont try to push that pagan practice on us Christians.

[MrJayguess]

@DefendingYHWH CORRECTION. This is nonsense. Over 2 billion Christians worldwide celebrate birthdays and the life which God has given them. the ONLY group which doesnt are the Jehovah's Witnesses who follow a misguided, heretical, bogus, judgemental & theology that has no place in Christianity, as it denies the basic doctrines of faith (Christ is human yet divine, he died on a Cross, was resurrected bodily, ascended and will return again) . Let the readers on this forum realise this.

[DefendingYHWH]

So now considering what Ive been telling you HISTORY CONFIRMS (NONE from governing body)"Birthdays wasn't in the minds of Christians" what gives YOU the AUTHORITY that its OK to celebrate it? Again, the bible doesnt say its wrong to celebrate it because it was just known that it was pagan. So where is your evidence now?

[ah0386]

Again, The orgin of your sources comfirms beliefs and interpretations, spiked with extremist dogma.

Funny, the Catholics also believed in hell, fire, confession, SAINTS.

How is it you can source Catholics on this very subject, but yet condemn them at the same time in your ministry?

I asked you and you failed to provided ANY verse whatsoever in the Bible OT/NT that condemns Birthdays.

[DefendingYHWH]

The problem with your comment again is you didnt mention about "Reynolds, Rod. Should Christians Celebrate Birthdays? Living Church News, the Historian Josephus, and the Church Fathers that acknowledged Birthdays were not celebrated. If we were living in the time of Moses, Jesus, Josephus or the Church Fathers they didnt practice Birthdays. So what gives you the right to push the pagan practice on us Christians?

[ah0386]

Man made reasoning is the foundation of your religion. Russel, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz. Please show subtantial proof other than a source from 1874 stating more of an opinion than fact.

Verify, verify. JUst like I did to uncover the truth about Russell's pryramids, Jehovah on pleiades, how the WT veiwed caucasians as superior to the negros in 1902.

So far, this religion's history shows a pattern of deceit and changing doctrine by force of circumstance.

[ah0386]

But yet, believe it or not, there's other asshole organizations, sects and cults just like the JW's who thrive on this persecution, being different and even more extreme.

You're not defending YAWEH, you're defending man made principals based on pyramidolgy.

You're defending a Organization that believed that GOD lived on Pleiades, an open star cluster in the constellation of Taurus.

(THE WATCHTOWER, 15 JUNE 1915, Page 185 where it refers to Job 38:31, 32. )

But that's "old truth", right?

[mividasecreta]

What? Now, I did not know that one: GOD lived on Pleiades, an open star cluster in the constellation of Taurus.

(THE WATCHTOWER, 15 JUNE 1915, Page 185

Don't mean to get off subject but this is even more complicated to explain that Birthdays.

[ah0386]

My friend-

The truth will set you free. And yes, you don't need apostate literature, ALL you have to do research ALL of the publications to really appreciate the NUTJOBS that was RUSSELL, RUTHERFORD, KNORR and FRANZ.

Witness will say it's lie or it was OLD TRUTH that was replaced with NEW TRUTH, but what's to say about if they're even following the teachings today?

Remember, they abandon the literal generation of 1914 back in 1995, and now follow a now debunked generation of the anointed.

[ah0386]

And doctrine that was completely done away with and haven't been followed since 1927, but nutjob#2 RUTHERFORD.

Witness don't want you to know this and in most cases they don't know themselves...

[ah0386]

But yet, as I said before someone always has to be an asshole, the Glutton of punishment.

It's the Governing Body that reaps the benefits of the Loyal JW's to adhering to the extremist principals not even recorded in the bible, but only a product of their interpretation.

Constantly reminded that their suffering is and alienation from the "WORLD" is the mark of true followers and great tactic for keeping people like DEFENDING YAWEH in line.

[ah0386]

There is nothing unscriptural about celebrating birthdays, and most Witnesses struggle to explain why they can't without some embarrassment at the shallow reasoning used. Romans 14:5-6 advises not to judge others and their celebrations:

[ah0386]

Which these traditions are held by JWs. I should know, I was married as a JW to a JW by a JW ELDER.

Making the reference that one has the pagan origins while other not, is a logical fallacy. Just based on your argument ALONE, that "idolatrous" worship is reason enough, you should not celebrate anything circled around anyone for that matter, no matter what the celebration.

Yes, the bible honors marriage so on so forth, but doesn't say there is no celebration of birthdays.

[ah0386]

F. Going away parties G. new home owner parties H. Becoming an Elder or MS party

As a Jw, these are the few celebrations that came to mind when dealing with an event that circled and focused on individual(s). Basically, there's no difference in the level of "Idolatrous worship" from these celebrations compared to Birthdays.

Most of the secular events and festivals have PAGAN influences, from the wedding band, to the groom and brides maids to confuse evil spirits from wedding couple.

[ah0386]

Well, being a an EX-jw I think I have just as much if not more credibility than you do. You know as well I as I do, that the official WT reasoning behind the ban on celebrating because "BAD" things happened during the BD celebrations.

Guilty by association? Faulty logic. And if you're selling the reasoning as Idolatrous worship, then what's the difference between: A. Anniversaries B. Graduations Parties C. Promotion or achievement parties D. Baby showers E. Weddings

[mividasecreta]

The scripture of Job 1:4-5 obviously don't say "Birthday" specifically, but what is wrong with making your Birthday "Your Own Day" and having a feast?

[DefendingYHWH]

mividasecreta History confirms that Early Jews and Christians had nothing to do with BIRTHDAYS because they viewed it as a pagan practice. 2 Cor. 6:14-18: "What fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´lial? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?"

Why would a Christian follow pagan practices when its condemned in the Bible?

[mividasecreta]

Thanks for your reply - Couldn't the same thing be said of Wedding Rings, Wedding Cakes, Aniversaries, aniversaries are actually the celebration of another year.

[ah0386]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that,

mividasecreta. What you have here a religion that thrives on persecution and being completely different from everybody else, some how signifying that they're true believers. But the problems is, there's always someone who's a bigger asshole the next than next person.

There's sects and cults more extreme than the JW's, but doesn't make them right.

It's not biblical, it's man made principal. I'm willing to die for any man made JW principal.

[mividasecreta]

I agree with having real proof - DefendingYHWH said" "History confirms that Early Jews and Christians had nothing to do with BIRTHDAYS" - I wish I had a couple of sources to go with that statement.

[DefendingYHWH]

mividasecreta I agree my fault my resources: "The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general."—The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander (translated by Henry John Rose), p. 190.

[DefendingYHWH]

"The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with these days."—The Imperial Bible-Dictionary (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p. 225. I hope this helps.

[mividasecreta]

Thanks I appreciate that. It will be interesting to learn if there was a similitud to the birthdays celebrations back then and todays celebrations.

[DefendingYHWH]

ah0386 Your comments just show you are ignorant on this subject. Have you ever just stopped and really questioned why we dont celebrate Birthdays? Its not because its "a religion that thrives on persecution and being completely different from everybody else" its because we are the most authentic Christian group that holds what the first Century Christians believed, practice, and taught. I would like to hear a respond please.

[mividasecreta]

Job 1:4-5

His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and consecrate them, rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, "Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." Thus Job did continually.

[ah0386]

You're assuming Christians didn't celebrate BD's, and that's not based on the scriptures. Yeah, bad things happened during BD's, but as you said PHARAOH celebrated BD's and that makes it bad, cause he's a "sinner", is not reason enough.

All of us, according to the bible, are "sinners", so basically according to your logic, every festival or celebration that we participate in is and sinful to GOD of the bible.

[slippkapone]

"keep doing this in remembrance of me" - From this verse, how do you get that Jesus said celebrate his death and not his birth?

Just because sinners in the bible celebrated birthdays does not make all who celebrate birthdays sinners.

That is guilt by association-a logical fallacy. Jesus died on a Friday, does that mean all Fridays are evil?

[nathanaelstacy1]

"how do you get that Jesus said celebrate his death and not his birth?"... Um... I think that was from the Last Supper, slippkapone. I'm pretty sure that *wasn't* something he said just after birth. So when it says he said "Keep doing this," that word, "this," would probably be referring to what he was doing at the time.

[slippkapone]

Yeah keep doing this, meaning breaking bread and drinking wine in memory of him. You lack reasoning and comprehension skills. So by him saying 'remember me' you equated that to celebrating solely his death? Why didn't he say 'do this to celebrate only my death' or something along those lines?

[nathanaelstacy1]

I don't know. Ask him. Maybe he'll tell you. If he does, make a video of it and put it on Youtube.

[slippkapone]

Maybe its because you misinterpreted what he said. He did not say this, and therefore you cannot reach your conclusion. Your logic is flawed. If you are saying that 'this is what he meant by "do this in memory of me"' ' you are putting words in his mouth. I hope you see the fallacy in your argument.

[nathanaelstacy1]

I don't know about my logic, but your sentence/thought construction is certainly flawed, slipp. That didn't even make sense. I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make... I guess you're trying to make one. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

[slippkapone]

My point is as simple as this: "do this in memory of me" does not equal: "celebrate my death and not my birth". To draw that conclusion from the bible verse would be incorrect because it simply does not say that. You're putting words into Jesus' mouth. God's expectations for Christians are made clear throughout the Bible, and there is no biblical evidence that it is against our Christian freedom to celebrate birthdays. Rom 14: 5-6

[nathanaelstacy1]

Ok, you say: "there is no biblical evidence that it is against our Christian freedom to celebrate birthdays."

I can agree with that. Never said otherwise.

But originally you asked, "how do you get that Jesus said celebrate his death and not his birth?" Assuming the account is accurate, he said it once, during passover, right before crucifixion -- am I mistaken? He clearly would not have been talking about celebrating his BIRTH that day... (cont'd)

[nathanaelstacy1]

You evidently understand that to mean "whenever you eat bread or wine, think of me," and Witnesses understand it to mean "do this ritual once a year, on the Passover." Neither understanding is incompatible with original context. But to conclude that he could possibly have meant by that to celebrate his birth would be "putting words into Jesus' mouth."

And what's more, if Jesus did want you to celebrate his birthday, he failed. You can't do it. You don't know when that was.

[nathanaelstacy1]

I'm not aware of any Israelite or Christian in the Bible celebrating a wedding anniversary, or a graduation from school, yet those are common occurrences among Witnesses. Should they be?

Also, as far as I'm aware, no "good" women of the Bible ever wore makeup. Jezebel did, however, when she was trying to seduce a prophet of YHWH. The wearing of makeup also has origins in non-Hebrew religions, such as that of the Egyptians. So should Witness women wear makeup? Just some thoughts for you.

[nathanaelstacy1]

(Btw, it's "Jehovah's Witnesses" not "Jehovah Witnesses." There should be a possessive "s" in there. [You should know how to spell the name of your own religion!]) :-)

[whoareJehovahwitness]

thanks for informing me I'm a bit dyslexic (<---spell check)

[nathanaelstacy1]

Anytime... But I don't think you gave your thoughts on the questions I asked. Any particular reason why?

[trikker01]

oh people celabrated in the Bible, like Job and his sons - (Job. 1:4)

So I see nothing wrong with celabrating. Job was infact in very good standing with God. Do not think he would have been that if celabrating birthdays and so on was wrong. that's what his family did.

[whoareJehovahwitness]

please check you vocabulary i can make out the first sentence and i have to say that job did not celebrate birthdays. and in job 1:4 it does say he held a banquet but not for his birthday.

[trikker01]

I'm just saying that Job celabrated and that Job himself was a man that God liked very much.

Sorry for your trouble. that some was killed on birthdays in the Bible does not imply that one shouldn't celabrate birthdays.

(When Jesus said; to remember his death and not the birth it is beacuse the fact that he died for our sins is bigger than his birth.)

I hope you understand this comment better.

[BringtheLight1980]

LOL, no holy person in the bible ever posted a YouTube Video. Lots of evil ones do.