Since we have allowed laws to be made that are based on religious institutions (legal marriage), that give financial incentives to married couples, couples in all minorities must have access to those same incentives. To think otherwise is to support discrimination.
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Marriage is a religious institution.There should NOT be any laws tied to religious institutions. There should be no such thing as "legal marriage". Remove all marriage laws from the books and the gay marriage issue becomes a none issue. Marriage is an agreement between two people. A ceremony. The foundation of lawmaking in this country needs to be the protection of the individual rights of everyone all the way down to the smallest minority.
Really!?! Your freedom is being taken away!?!? YOU are fighting to take away the freedoms of gay Americans!!!! Why do you think you deserve freedom but gays do not?!? We are all Americans and we all deserve the same rights and freedoms!
Strange Oaks would reference the civil rights movement. Mormons were busy discriminating against African Americans during that era. Now, Mormons are the African Americans? No, they're just playing the same role they generally play; they side with the bullies and then say they're being bullied.
It is know wonder that God is so angry with people today. You sinners repent! Learn to Love one another! God created man and woman to be together. God destroyed an entire nation because they were perverted. Jesus loves all people, but hates the sin for it goes against the production of life.
People justifying there deeds does not make it writ. Sin is sin. Please wake up before it is too late. Jesus is very real, but a hater is so blinded that he can not see. Please Learn to love as I love you and pray for you.
This LDS church actively worked to strip a minority of its constitutional rights to equal protection and due process under the law. Furthermore, as evidence proided in the proposition 8 trial has shown, the church tried to do so while hiding their contribution to the passage of proposition 8. Lastly, the church has become a political force while taking government money that is not supposed to go to politically active organizations.
These are the real issues surrounding the LDS church and prop8.
@ma7799 The supreme court has fourteen times ruled that marriage is a fundamental right under the constitution. The idea that a fundamental right should be denied solely because the LDS church holds a religious position that condemns a minority group or that fundamental rights should be put up to a public vote is deplorable.
They can marry if they wish. No one is preventing that. They just cannot marry each other, because that is altering a social dynamic so they can feel better about themselves. It almost seems like they are jealous. Talk about homo fascism.
@ma7799 Whose social dynamic is that altering exactly? Who stands to be negatively impacted if marriage benefits are extended? The benefit to same sex couples is tremendous and I would be more than happy to guide you to the evidence of this. There is a great deal more to this than people wanting to 'feel better'. Do you yourself feel that your marriage would be/is simply to make yourself 'feel better'? Why would this be the case for same sex couples?
It is incredible that so many people let a book of superstitious nonsense like the Bible do their thinking for them. These leaders should know better. And they are in no position to be moral watchdogs for anyone, especially in light of Mormonism's racist, polygamous history.
Please show me how I am taking Paul's admonition of women to be silent in church out of context.
Why don't you just be a man and admit you are using the Bible to justify your bigotry. You're not fooling anyone.
@NavajoJoe66 there are probably millions of people who use the bible as their personal weapon against the things they don't understand and fear. The bible has been used for hundreds of years to justify inhumanity to man and even for genocide. That's the dark and hellish side of religion.
@NavajoJoe66 um you think we're letting books do our thinking for us? our church's beliefs is that we avoid things that destroy our lives - sins. I don't see people who support prop 8 throwing rocks at people's cars with the bumper sticker "no on 8". insulting them in the streets and protesting.
Dallin H. Oaks = full of hot air. As every religious leader is. These guys make a living on fear and hate, and then they have the gall to complain when those of us who think rationally push back. I am happy to see this sort of nonsense erode.
The church may not know it yet, but Prop 8 was a nail in its coffin. No thinking person would want to join an organization that openly promotes intolerance and bigotry.
Who says Jesus doesn't approve of gay marriage? He didn't say anything about gays in the Bible now did he? And even if he did, you do realize that not everyone believes in your nonsensical book of Bronze Age fairy tales, right?
These church leaders are making gay people look like they're some kind of evil enemy to heterosexual marriage, which is just nonsense. There is no excuse for the way these charlatans treat gay people. These religious blowhards should be ashamed of themselves.
Actually, I have read the Bible. Apparently you have not. Show me where Jesus says ANYTHING about gay people.
The problem is that people like you selectively choose what to follow in the Bible. The Bible says that eating shrimp is an abomination. But I'll bet you've eaten shrimp before, haven't you?
You pick and choose which things you want to follow in the Bible, and ignore the things you don't want to follow. You'll gladly eat shrimp, even though it's clearly an abomination. Ridiculous.
1 Cor. 6: 9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Thanks for proving my point -- Jesus doesn't say ANYTHING about gay people. You cited an epistle written by Paul, not Jesus. Learn your Bible.
BTW, Paul also said that women shouldn't speak in church, and that it is better to be single than to marry. Do you follow those? Why not? Paul never even knew Jesus while he was alive, he only claimed to have seen him in a "vision".
In fact, Paul was part of the mob that killed the disciple Stephen. What a guy, huh? This is who you cite? What a joke.
Let's look at the sort of things Paul (who didn't even consider himself part of the mother church) had to say about women:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." [1 Cor. 14:34-35]
Why do you reject that teaching, but accept what he said about gays? You are cherry picking.
Paul was talking about gays, not God. And Jesus never said anything about gays.
And if you accept what Paul says, then you should accept everything he says, like forbidding women to speak in church, or proving your zealousness to God by not marrying. You can't cherry pick Paul's teachings.
You accept anything God says? What about killing witches? God says to kill witches in Exodus 22:18, why aren't you killing witches? Why are you eating shrimp? God says eating shrimp is an "abomination". LOL
In pauls day men "their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another... Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received... penalty for their perversion (see Rom. 1:23-27)." Jesus commission Paul to speak these words. p.s. it never mentions the word shrimp in the bible
So.. gay people existed in Paul's day too..? Well, gee now that's a surprise! Love how he makes it sound like people just, you know, choose to be gay. LOL
So, again, Jesus himself never said anything about gays. All you have is Paul, who never even knew Jesus while he lived. Pretty convincing!
The word shrimp isn't mentioned, but shellfish is -- shrimp, clams, oysters, lobster, etc. Yahweh says eating them is an "abomination". LOL amazing that you actually believe this nonsense.
Poor old churches. Their sphere of influence is steadily shrinking. They're still valiantly holding on to human pair bonding though.
"Falling in love - oh, that was totally our idea so we'll have the final say in what's socially and legally recognised and what isn't thank you very much! It's a shame that we can't execute gays anymore like God wanted back in the good old Levitican days. Nothing used to put a smile on his celestial face quite like a good old fashioned stoning. Sigh."
Well, let me see ..... yeap, it's fairly simple. I open any bible, read Lev 20:13 where God says to execute all gay men. And that's pretty much the end of the process. I know that much about God.
I don't use scriptures to justify anything.
They haven't earned any respect in my eyes at all.
I respect totally the rules a religion sets for its own adherents - but utterly oppose any religious order that deems its rules should be applied beyond its own membership.
It's so unfortunate that the LDS Church has been involved in the prop 8 issue at all. The LDS Proclamation on the Family was a reaction to gay people striving to have CIVIL MARRIAGE equality not religious marriage equality. The perspectives of many LDS leaders on this issue is very dogmatic in the sense that they will not even think that perhaps God has something different to say about this issue than what they had previously imagined.
aw c'mon so old to be such a cry baby!, theese people cannot get with the times and the changing of opinion in the world, a human is a human and deserves respect by that basis, and if this is just because a law that enables a gay couple to marry then they are falling in bigotry and declaring themselves the victims here...caliming ignorance of the persecution of gay people by the church.
Those of you who have done nothing but list profanities and insults have done nothing but prove this man right. Disagreeing with someone is one thing, but what most of you have done is exactly his point, so you have done nothing but prove him right as far as religious freedom goes, the best thing for you people who cant come up with a good argument and have to resort to insulting woud be to just keep you mouths shut, it would keep you from proving your opponent right.
Also, people do consider Mormons Christians, its just that most Christians think that solely their sect is right, so everyone else is not a "true Christian".
I think what the issue he is really talking about, if you actually watch and really listen to him instead of just listing profanties, is the fact that homosexuals want to call it "marriage", he talks of defending "marriage" not anybody's rights to recieve insurance discounts or other marriage discounts.
Calling it "marriage" is his problem, not keeping anybody from recieving benefits, why not call it "union" or something else, the real problem is with the government, they are the ones that dont want to give these financial and legal benefits to homosexual unions.
Complete and utter bullshit, this guy does not get 2 sit there and talk about the intimidation of members of the LDS considering their completely racist views of black people. And just becasue they had some 'revelation' in the 1970's in the face of overwheming civil rights doesnt clean their slate. They should just accept themselves and prop 8 for what they are. Bigots, hypocritical bigots
so the church thinks they can tell people that arnt mormons what they can do? no wonder I left the mormon religion bunch of nuts. Peoples personal lives do not infringe on members of LDS, and btw its morrally wrong to promote religion in the work place, so if people are fired for it then its their own fault. Work is for work, not religion, personal lives are personal and not for LDS to control.
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I can't believe it! i just looked at all the posts made on this and saw only 10 or so that were for him! the other 140 of you guys must have a lot of spare time on your hands if all you do is slander any video that is in any way against what you believe.
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Wow... If you guys who are insulting this really hate religion so much, why do you watch the video? Go and do whatever it is you do and stop insulting a man who is just expressing his views about the world!
who do you think you are, telling other people what to do? if you say something stupid or say lie after lie after lie and then play the victim, we are gonna call you out on it coz this is the Internet you bitch! hope you like it
Dallin Oaks knows what he is talking about. He is not only a religious leader, but was also a State Supreme Court Justice. I can't believe all these comments that use the f word every other sentence and think that religious freedom is not a big deal. That is saying our constitution is not a big deal. Get rid of religious freedom and you toss out the constitution. Get rid of the constitution and where is our government?
jrummy, the issue here has nothing to do with religious freedom! It is the seperation of church and state. He has every constitutional right to free speech and religious freedom, however, it is against the constitution for his church to fund or get involved publically in anything political. PERIOD!
Okay, I will agree that any vandalization of churches is unacceptable, but come on...dude, no one is saying you should have to put up with vandalism and threats. You need to be reporting that stuff to the cops. Even though I could not disagree with this guy MORE on his stance on this issue, I don't endorse vandalism.
Freedom from retaliation? What are you fucking kidding me? Listen, asshole, YOU threw YOUR hat into the ring on this one. YOU got YOUR church involved in a political matter. YOU tried to deny a right to a group of people based on religious grounds and endorsed this proposition, you should have to face the consequences of it. You can't argue you have the right to weigh in on something, but then others don't have the right to tell you what they think of it. You should have your tax exemption gone.
"freedom from retaliation"...let me get this straight, you can prosecute homosexuals on grounds of immorality and suppress their opportunities for equal rights... but after you exercise that action you don't want any feedback. Come on, I think that is actually called Hit and Run or even Drive By Shooting.
Your arrogance is unbelievable in that you think you obtain some moral authority powerful enough to suppress people different than you.
Some epic shark-jumping going on here. Comparing the "struggle" of religious bigots to deny other people their civil rights to the black civil rights movement is so ludicrous it can't be put into words. It gets absolutely Bizzaro-world nutty when you consider that these people's predecessors were probably railing against INTERRACIAL marriage in the bad ol' days.
...we're not even fully over that issue yet either: an interracial marriage license was denied just last week in Louisiana. the judge in question claiming the child would never be accepted by either community (the ACLU are taking it up now). If some states have still to get over racism, don't expect to win the same-sex marriage argument before about 2100.....
He and his psycho bigot hatemongers attack and discriminate against a vast section of the population based on those people's sexual orientation and he thinks they shouldn't have a right to be angry? What a filthy piece of shit.
Proposition 8 is such bullshit. I really hope it gets repealed, it's such a fucking disgrace. The anti-gay marriage argument is purely religious and therefore has no place in a secular government like our own. It's pathetic that those religious nuts have to try to force gays to abide by their standards.
How come this Jagoff can compare the religious problems to the Civil Rights movement but the gays cannot use it for their's, even though the gays are having a similar problem that the blacks were, not as seveare, but still.
I remember when it first popped up at church, some general authority was trying to get us all in England to write angry letters about it, as if we would be forced to let gay people get married in mormon temples. and I thought they just had it in for long haired youths who listen to alternative music. Glad to be out and have my head back.
Religious freedom *IS* under attack - The religious people in this country are waging a war against the non-religious. Passing laws forcing people to recognize your religious views as law is unarguably an assault on religious freedom.
This man is an absolute bigot. How can he claim his rights are being impeeded upon by people protesting a proposition which in itself not only impeeds other's civil rights, but completely blocks them from having civil rights.
This is why we have freedom of religion in the first place, so people like this assinine bigot can't tell me and you what we should be doing with our lives because his imaginary friend told him to.
The irony in his comment about African Americans is also laughable.
That African American made me smile. The looks you get from some of the older ones when you suggest that if Adam was real, he was most likely black. Good times.
Freedom to exercise religious beliefs without fear of coercion or retaliation, which apparently means the freedom to use your religion to pass laws so the government can retaliate or coerce the people you disagree with morally, and do so on your behalf because of legislation you supported based on your "conscience".
Religious people disgust me beyond even my own comprehension.
it's funny how these biggots are claiming rights and compare it to being black just when they pushed for a law that only serves to discriminate against others for no logical reason. hypocites!
The whole same sex marriage debate is stupid as hell. Stupid hicks that think it affects their damn religious BS. Here is a concept:
All "marriages" be called Unions by definition of the government and law. If there is a religious ceremony, then whoever can call it a marriage. That is fully dependent on the churches, not the government. They need to be kept separate. If Catholics don't want to accept same sex marriage, then they don't have to think of them as married.
Apparently that in itself wasn't enough hypocrisy because the good Elder went on to compare this discrimination to that experienced by the African American population during the civil rights movement. This too is a bit rich when you consider that prior to 1978 black people were forbidden from joining the priesthood or entering a temple in the LDS church. At the time of the civil rights movement this was an openly racist organisation!
I wonder if anyone else noticed the complete and utter hypocrisy expressed by the LDS church this week in the United States. Elder Dallin H. Oaks was complaining about being discriminated against by the community in the aftermath of their support for proposition 8 (opposing same sex marriage in the state).
Ultimately, the complaint is that they're being discriminated against for discriminating against others!
This is hilarious. Not only that an organisation that was openly racist until the 1970s would choose that particular analogy, but also the complaint itself... They're being discriminated against for discriminating against others!
Every religion claims they're being discriminated against and their freedoms are being curtailed. Even though they all push anti-choice. This country can only benefit from a reduction in Christian 'values'. Freedom of religion equates to freedom from gun laws. We need Freedom from religion. Religious people need to practice religious tolerance and respect for those who do not follow their religion, as they would expect.
LOL! This is so stupid and ironic that I can't find words for it.
You deserve no respect. But you do have the right to basic civil rights... like everyone else! Even though your are a a person with questionable mental capacity.
Another theist claiming his "rights" are being infringed... in this case, his rights to be a bigot and discriminatory moron against homosexuals. Then they try to compare it to the black civil rights movement.. this, coming from an organized cult that banned black Americans from receiving same levels of status within their church.
I love that... Mormons spend $20 MILLION to support the banning of gay marriage (which btw should have cost them their tax exempt status) and then complain that their own rights are being threatened... LoFuckingL
Poor analogy for a Mormon to use, but I do agree that the Public Square is not a "belief free" zone, either for the Theist or Atheist. The great thing about our country is it is based on the Biblical premise that man has freedom of choice given by God and that is not to be taken away.
Simply google the term "white and delightsome" if you would like to know more about latter day saints and their religion, of which one of the basic tenets is racism.
It's amusing that elder Oaks compares the protest directed at the LDS to the backlash suffered by African Americans when one could draw a sound comparison between the discrimination leveled against A.A.'s and the discrimination currently leveled on homosexuals. The fight for gay rights is very similar to the fight for black rights. Just say no to fake gold plates, magic undies and 14 wives.
So his argument is that LDS has special legal rights to be protected against criticism over its policies that no one else in the nation has. Riiiiight!
"I maintain that this is a POLITICAL FACT, well qualified IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE by RELIGIOUS PEOPLE whose freedom to believe and act must always be protected by what is properly called our first freedom: The free exercise of religion."
He is admitting to his religion being involved in PUBLIC POLITICS. Why aren't these people having their tax-free status revoked on the spot?
No one is even stopping them from their beliefs, simply challenging their POLITICS in the PUBLIC SQUARE!
funny thing is.. prop 8 was in california... not utah.. why protest in salt lake morons, and its NOTHING compared to the problem with african americans voting in the 60's.. common.. stupid mormons.
Yes, they have a right to preach to their members. If they want to bar gay people from joining their church or being married in their church that is their right.
But they cross the line when they start cramming THEIR religion down the throats of people of other faiths or people who choose not to believe in invisible gods or fictitious prophets.
So when they interfered in the California vote they opened themselves up to retaliation.
What a repulsive bigotted hypocrite! He wants respect after actively destroying the rights of others? What's so special about his rights? These "christians" need to face the fact that this country has a secular government, we are NOT a theocrasy.
And by the way, now would be a good time to repeal the tax-free status of the mormon church.
Now would be a good time to do away with EVERY religions tax-free status, ESPECIALLY when they become political entities, lobbying and funding political movments and ideology. It is supposed to be against the tax-free stipulations to do what most churches are doing these days in this country (USA) with regard to politics and telling their followers how to vote and funding political causes.
He wants to inject himself, his beliefs and his church into the political arena, fine. But then don't cry about being opposed by those you are attempting to discriminate against and STILL expect to be considered a tax-free, private religious entity.
These people need to choose: Private (tax-free) religion or Public (tax paying) politics. Besides, isn't paying taxes basically a part of being a true patriot?
I don't agree with pretty much anything he says, but I don't think he's being outrageously out of line or anything. He's calm, respectful, clear, and wrong.
If you have the right to say you want to deny certain people rights because of their sexual preference, then people have the right to call you a jackass. It's not a one way street.
Also, it is wrong to discriminate and fire people because of their religious beliefs. That is unless they are approaching customers and starting theological debates. Managers have the right to fire you over that.
They got what they wanted at the expense of a smaller community, that's NOT change... that's merely repeating history. What's worse is I seem to be the only person I know of who realizes how BADLY the black community lost in juxtoposition to their contributions to both black and American history. And their willing propogation nad support of mental slavery called "religion". When you have a group of people usurping the legal system to enforce religious dogma it's influence SHOULD die.
What? The founding fathers were openly against religion? Are you insane? They were mostly freemasons which it is a requirement to belong to a religion to be a part, more ignorance without research.
His logic is SEVERELY FLAWED. Black people weren't in any position to use the law to oppress another community... unlike Nov 04, 2008. When most (I think approx. 80%) of all black voters voted YES on Prop 8. As a black person...I personally consider all blacks who call themselves civil rights activists and voted YES to be the REAL sellouts. I think about THAT everytime a black person says something to the effect of "act more black".
No one wants to stop anyone from practicing their religion or voting their conscience. We are protecting ourselves from you forcing people who do not believe as these people do by making your mythologies law.
What a joke..! Two thousand years of christian persecution of anything even remotely percieved as heretic and he wonders why some peeps are kinda SORE with hes silly superstitions...!!! I have to admit I'd love to go ROMAN on hes sorry ass and feed him to the fucking lions..!! Thumbs DOWN, u cunt..!!
What a prick who is missing the point, and then to compare himself the plight of blacks and minorities is asinine. Black people are born black, unlike the superstitious asshats who choose to believe in fairy tales spun by the con artist joseph smith. Tell when again the mormons decided that black people could get into heaven? Fuck you elder oaks, right in your bigoted lie spewing ass!
Demonstrating in public is legal. It does not constitute harrassment or intimidation. Were any Mormons lynched? Firing someone from their job because of their political beliefs (e.g. on gay marriage) may or may not be legal, depending on whether the job entails supporting a particular political stance. In any case, this guy's grievances are already address by existing laws. Buddy, if you think a crime has been committed, then report it. If not, quit whining.
now I know where the word MORON comes from! just a misspelling of Mormon!
marcohorowitz8 2 months ago
Since we have allowed laws to be made that are based on religious institutions (legal marriage), that give financial incentives to married couples, couples in all minorities must have access to those same incentives. To think otherwise is to support discrimination.
anprapture 9 months ago
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Marriage is a religious institution.There should NOT be any laws tied to religious institutions. There should be no such thing as "legal marriage". Remove all marriage laws from the books and the gay marriage issue becomes a none issue. Marriage is an agreement between two people. A ceremony. The foundation of lawmaking in this country needs to be the protection of the individual rights of everyone all the way down to the smallest minority.
anprapture 9 months ago
Really!?! Your freedom is being taken away!?!? YOU are fighting to take away the freedoms of gay Americans!!!! Why do you think you deserve freedom but gays do not?!? We are all Americans and we all deserve the same rights and freedoms!
chickenbuttguesswhat 9 months ago
Strange Oaks would reference the civil rights movement. Mormons were busy discriminating against African Americans during that era. Now, Mormons are the African Americans? No, they're just playing the same role they generally play; they side with the bullies and then say they're being bullied.
zubDabber 10 months ago
fuck this old cunt.
jedipimp92 11 months ago
There didnt seem to be any evidence of religious freedom under threat :s.
Jamieishere1 1 year ago
It is know wonder that God is so angry with people today. You sinners repent! Learn to Love one another! God created man and woman to be together. God destroyed an entire nation because they were perverted. Jesus loves all people, but hates the sin for it goes against the production of life.
tim4962 2 years ago
People justifying there deeds does not make it writ. Sin is sin. Please wake up before it is too late. Jesus is very real, but a hater is so blinded that he can not see. Please Learn to love as I love you and pray for you.
tim4962 2 years ago
This LDS church actively worked to strip a minority of its constitutional rights to equal protection and due process under the law. Furthermore, as evidence proided in the proposition 8 trial has shown, the church tried to do so while hiding their contribution to the passage of proposition 8. Lastly, the church has become a political force while taking government money that is not supposed to go to politically active organizations.
These are the real issues surrounding the LDS church and prop8.
SpeedyBruin 2 years ago
@SpeedyBruin
They still have constitutional rights.
ma7799 1 year ago
@ma7799 The supreme court has fourteen times ruled that marriage is a fundamental right under the constitution. The idea that a fundamental right should be denied solely because the LDS church holds a religious position that condemns a minority group or that fundamental rights should be put up to a public vote is deplorable.
SpeedyBruin 1 year ago
@SpeedyBruin
They can marry if they wish. No one is preventing that. They just cannot marry each other, because that is altering a social dynamic so they can feel better about themselves. It almost seems like they are jealous. Talk about homo fascism.
ma7799 1 year ago
@ma7799 Whose social dynamic is that altering exactly? Who stands to be negatively impacted if marriage benefits are extended? The benefit to same sex couples is tremendous and I would be more than happy to guide you to the evidence of this. There is a great deal more to this than people wanting to 'feel better'. Do you yourself feel that your marriage would be/is simply to make yourself 'feel better'? Why would this be the case for same sex couples?
SpeedyBruin 1 year ago
@SpeedyBruin
Anyone with half a brain can see what they are altering. BTW, marriage is the foundation of society.
ma7799 1 year ago
@ma7799 Then an very specific example with some sort of solid evidence for it shouldn't be hard to find.
SpeedyBruin 1 year ago
It is incredible that so many people let a book of superstitious nonsense like the Bible do their thinking for them. These leaders should know better. And they are in no position to be moral watchdogs for anyone, especially in light of Mormonism's racist, polygamous history.
Please show me how I am taking Paul's admonition of women to be silent in church out of context.
Why don't you just be a man and admit you are using the Bible to justify your bigotry. You're not fooling anyone.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
@NavajoJoe66 there are probably millions of people who use the bible as their personal weapon against the things they don't understand and fear. The bible has been used for hundreds of years to justify inhumanity to man and even for genocide. That's the dark and hellish side of religion.
Starvalleybotany 2 years ago
@Starvalleybotany no just bad religions who don't have correct principles or who translate those principles to support their own evil selfish desires
pablamokablamo 1 year ago
@pablamokablamo That's for sure.
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago
@NavajoJoe66 um you think we're letting books do our thinking for us? our church's beliefs is that we avoid things that destroy our lives - sins. I don't see people who support prop 8 throwing rocks at people's cars with the bumper sticker "no on 8". insulting them in the streets and protesting.
pablamokablamo 1 year ago
Dallin H. Oaks = full of hot air. As every religious leader is. These guys make a living on fear and hate, and then they have the gall to complain when those of us who think rationally push back. I am happy to see this sort of nonsense erode.
The church may not know it yet, but Prop 8 was a nail in its coffin. No thinking person would want to join an organization that openly promotes intolerance and bigotry.
LDS church = FAIL.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
Gays have the right to work, freedom to speak, live togheter, etc. I don't see any fear or hate speech from the apostle of the Lord.
The Lord don't like gay marriage. But they are free to live togheter and have the right to inherit if they want.
The LDS church have no hate for gay people. They are sons and daughters of God. Jesus loves them.
Even in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, and Vermont, marriages for same sex couples are legal and currently performed.
Do u understand?
strikerhiryu 2 years ago
Who says Jesus doesn't approve of gay marriage? He didn't say anything about gays in the Bible now did he? And even if he did, you do realize that not everyone believes in your nonsensical book of Bronze Age fairy tales, right?
These church leaders are making gay people look like they're some kind of evil enemy to heterosexual marriage, which is just nonsense. There is no excuse for the way these charlatans treat gay people. These religious blowhards should be ashamed of themselves.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
Ok, now it's clear to me that you don't know the Holy Bible.
I have no intention to fight with you about the Bible.
The problem is not gay people.
The problem is disobedience to God's will.
You sound like a kid asking his father to let him jump a cliff.
strikerhiryu 2 years ago
Actually, I have read the Bible. Apparently you have not. Show me where Jesus says ANYTHING about gay people.
The problem is that people like you selectively choose what to follow in the Bible. The Bible says that eating shrimp is an abomination. But I'll bet you've eaten shrimp before, haven't you?
You pick and choose which things you want to follow in the Bible, and ignore the things you don't want to follow. You'll gladly eat shrimp, even though it's clearly an abomination. Ridiculous.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
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1 Cor. 6: 9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
I don't condemn gays, but does the Bible?
strikerhiryu 2 years ago
Thanks for proving my point -- Jesus doesn't say ANYTHING about gay people. You cited an epistle written by Paul, not Jesus. Learn your Bible.
BTW, Paul also said that women shouldn't speak in church, and that it is better to be single than to marry. Do you follow those? Why not? Paul never even knew Jesus while he was alive, he only claimed to have seen him in a "vision".
In fact, Paul was part of the mob that killed the disciple Stephen. What a guy, huh? This is who you cite? What a joke.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
Let's look at the sort of things Paul (who didn't even consider himself part of the mother church) had to say about women:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." [1 Cor. 14:34-35]
Why do you reject that teaching, but accept what he said about gays? You are cherry picking.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
We're talking about women, not gays.
Second: I accept anything God says.
Third: You're taking it out of context.
strikerhiryu 2 years ago
Paul was talking about gays, not God. And Jesus never said anything about gays.
And if you accept what Paul says, then you should accept everything he says, like forbidding women to speak in church, or proving your zealousness to God by not marrying. You can't cherry pick Paul's teachings.
You accept anything God says? What about killing witches? God says to kill witches in Exodus 22:18, why aren't you killing witches? Why are you eating shrimp? God says eating shrimp is an "abomination". LOL
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
In pauls day men "their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another... Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received... penalty for their perversion (see Rom. 1:23-27)." Jesus commission Paul to speak these words. p.s. it never mentions the word shrimp in the bible
jrummy16 2 years ago
So.. gay people existed in Paul's day too..? Well, gee now that's a surprise! Love how he makes it sound like people just, you know, choose to be gay. LOL
So, again, Jesus himself never said anything about gays. All you have is Paul, who never even knew Jesus while he lived. Pretty convincing!
The word shrimp isn't mentioned, but shellfish is -- shrimp, clams, oysters, lobster, etc. Yahweh says eating them is an "abomination". LOL amazing that you actually believe this nonsense.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
Poor old churches. Their sphere of influence is steadily shrinking. They're still valiantly holding on to human pair bonding though.
"Falling in love - oh, that was totally our idea so we'll have the final say in what's socially and legally recognised and what isn't thank you very much! It's a shame that we can't execute gays anymore like God wanted back in the good old Levitican days. Nothing used to put a smile on his celestial face quite like a good old fashioned stoning. Sigh."
Will57939 2 years ago 3
How you can dare to use scriptures to justify death?
You don't know God.
The levitican Law is over.
Jesus Christ it the Law now.
strikerhiryu 2 years ago
Well, let me see ..... yeap, it's fairly simple. I open any bible, read Lev 20:13 where God says to execute all gay men. And that's pretty much the end of the process. I know that much about God.
I don't use scriptures to justify anything.
They haven't earned any respect in my eyes at all.
I respect totally the rules a religion sets for its own adherents - but utterly oppose any religious order that deems its rules should be applied beyond its own membership.
Will57939 2 years ago
WHAT THE FUCK!?
This guy is either trollin' and making us hatin' or he's lost his mind.
wcl82783 2 years ago
This asshole certainly has quite a pair on him to say he's a victim.
Buzzboy8771 2 years ago 2
It's so unfortunate that the LDS Church has been involved in the prop 8 issue at all. The LDS Proclamation on the Family was a reaction to gay people striving to have CIVIL MARRIAGE equality not religious marriage equality. The perspectives of many LDS leaders on this issue is very dogmatic in the sense that they will not even think that perhaps God has something different to say about this issue than what they had previously imagined.
Rockymtntruth 2 years ago
Comment removed
mrbluesky323 2 years ago
aw c'mon so old to be such a cry baby!, theese people cannot get with the times and the changing of opinion in the world, a human is a human and deserves respect by that basis, and if this is just because a law that enables a gay couple to marry then they are falling in bigotry and declaring themselves the victims here...caliming ignorance of the persecution of gay people by the church.
longstrider9999 2 years ago
Those of you who have done nothing but list profanities and insults have done nothing but prove this man right. Disagreeing with someone is one thing, but what most of you have done is exactly his point, so you have done nothing but prove him right as far as religious freedom goes, the best thing for you people who cant come up with a good argument and have to resort to insulting woud be to just keep you mouths shut, it would keep you from proving your opponent right.
jim1bob12001 2 years ago
Mormons have to be idiots to believe that Joseph Smith was genuine.
phixl 2 years ago 2
and you have to be an idiot to believe the things you take on faith too.
Jacksonholenativ 2 years ago 2
Why?
jim1bob12001 2 years ago
why?
jim1bob12001 2 years ago
Also, people do consider Mormons Christians, its just that most Christians think that solely their sect is right, so everyone else is not a "true Christian".
mikedamat 2 years ago
I think what the issue he is really talking about, if you actually watch and really listen to him instead of just listing profanties, is the fact that homosexuals want to call it "marriage", he talks of defending "marriage" not anybody's rights to recieve insurance discounts or other marriage discounts.
jim1bob12001 2 years ago
Calling it "marriage" is his problem, not keeping anybody from recieving benefits, why not call it "union" or something else, the real problem is with the government, they are the ones that dont want to give these financial and legal benefits to homosexual unions.
jim1bob12001 2 years ago
Complete and utter bullshit, this guy does not get 2 sit there and talk about the intimidation of members of the LDS considering their completely racist views of black people. And just becasue they had some 'revelation' in the 1970's in the face of overwheming civil rights doesnt clean their slate. They should just accept themselves and prop 8 for what they are. Bigots, hypocritical bigots
Matty4eva2000 2 years ago
I reserve the right to laugh out loud at religion every day.
TheGodWhisperer 2 years ago
so the church thinks they can tell people that arnt mormons what they can do? no wonder I left the mormon religion bunch of nuts. Peoples personal lives do not infringe on members of LDS, and btw its morrally wrong to promote religion in the work place, so if people are fired for it then its their own fault. Work is for work, not religion, personal lives are personal and not for LDS to control.
166beads 2 years ago 2
The bully crying victim. Typical fundamentalist tactic.
sammyseattle 2 years ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he speaks the Truth !
mormonensindchristen 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I can't believe it! i just looked at all the posts made on this and saw only 10 or so that were for him! the other 140 of you guys must have a lot of spare time on your hands if all you do is slander any video that is in any way against what you believe.
tigernqr 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Wow... If you guys who are insulting this really hate religion so much, why do you watch the video? Go and do whatever it is you do and stop insulting a man who is just expressing his views about the world!
tigernqr 2 years ago
who do you think you are, telling other people what to do? if you say something stupid or say lie after lie after lie and then play the victim, we are gonna call you out on it coz this is the Internet you bitch! hope you like it
sieg5 2 years ago
It's something like LSD.
sunnyallthetime 2 years ago
people like him is why religion is dangerous
jpc08109 2 years ago 8
Secular government is a human right.
slipcurve 2 years ago 5
Dallin Oaks knows what he is talking about. He is not only a religious leader, but was also a State Supreme Court Justice. I can't believe all these comments that use the f word every other sentence and think that religious freedom is not a big deal. That is saying our constitution is not a big deal. Get rid of religious freedom and you toss out the constitution. Get rid of the constitution and where is our government?
jrummy16 2 years ago
jrummy, the issue here has nothing to do with religious freedom! It is the seperation of church and state. He has every constitutional right to free speech and religious freedom, however, it is against the constitution for his church to fund or get involved publically in anything political. PERIOD!
norse40 2 years ago 3
I think the point of the constitution is not freedom of religion, but freedom FROM religion.
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
So you don't know how to read?
strikerhiryu 2 years ago
I can write, can't I?
In fact I'll wager that I read at least 10 times more than you do, and probably much more. What is your point?
NavajoJoe66 2 years ago
fuck religion... should we respect someone that says he sees unicorns in his closet too?
people make such a big deal out of gay marriage, what the fuck is the big deal anyways you immature retards..
How the fuck is it any of your business what two people agree on and do in the privacy of their own home?
you people are fucking idiots.
ridthedelusional 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
jrummy16 2 years ago
I bounce your religion on my large penis.
TheBeepBeepBeep 2 years ago 5
Fuck respect for religion. Grow up.
FreeInquisition 2 years ago 7
Okay, I will agree that any vandalization of churches is unacceptable, but come on...dude, no one is saying you should have to put up with vandalism and threats. You need to be reporting that stuff to the cops. Even though I could not disagree with this guy MORE on his stance on this issue, I don't endorse vandalism.
ArranoGris 2 years ago
Freedom from retaliation? What are you fucking kidding me? Listen, asshole, YOU threw YOUR hat into the ring on this one. YOU got YOUR church involved in a political matter. YOU tried to deny a right to a group of people based on religious grounds and endorsed this proposition, you should have to face the consequences of it. You can't argue you have the right to weigh in on something, but then others don't have the right to tell you what they think of it. You should have your tax exemption gone.
ArranoGris 2 years ago 4
"freedom from retaliation"...let me get this straight, you can prosecute homosexuals on grounds of immorality and suppress their opportunities for equal rights... but after you exercise that action you don't want any feedback. Come on, I think that is actually called Hit and Run or even Drive By Shooting.
Your arrogance is unbelievable in that you think you obtain some moral authority powerful enough to suppress people different than you.
hwk1969 2 years ago 4
exercise at your home with your magic underwears, jesus freaks
dreamy2 2 years ago 7
Some epic shark-jumping going on here. Comparing the "struggle" of religious bigots to deny other people their civil rights to the black civil rights movement is so ludicrous it can't be put into words. It gets absolutely Bizzaro-world nutty when you consider that these people's predecessors were probably railing against INTERRACIAL marriage in the bad ol' days.
HeinrichJamslather 2 years ago 3
...we're not even fully over that issue yet either: an interracial marriage license was denied just last week in Louisiana. the judge in question claiming the child would never be accepted by either community (the ACLU are taking it up now). If some states have still to get over racism, don't expect to win the same-sex marriage argument before about 2100.....
amsterdammed71 2 years ago
Respect for religion is deteriorating? Oh FUCK YEAH, BITCHES! Music to my ears!
megagrey 2 years ago 5
Black people fought for equality. Mormons fight to end equality.
Fucking biggot
shubidubar 2 years ago 16
@shubidubar
Faggots have equality; but they want different a social dynamic with marriage so they can feel better.
ma7799 1 year ago
He and his psycho bigot hatemongers attack and discriminate against a vast section of the population based on those people's sexual orientation and he thinks they shouldn't have a right to be angry? What a filthy piece of shit.
geffel 2 years ago 7
Fuck this guy.... .just fuck him and prop 8
GibbonStreet 2 years ago 6
Proposition 8 is such bullshit. I really hope it gets repealed, it's such a fucking disgrace. The anti-gay marriage argument is purely religious and therefore has no place in a secular government like our own. It's pathetic that those religious nuts have to try to force gays to abide by their standards.
NukeFishy 2 years ago 7
these the same african americans your religion says should be slaves?
mambuduomally 2 years ago 7
Something only deserves respect if it is worthy of respect. Religion does not deserve respect.
RationalConclusion 2 years ago 18
How come this Jagoff can compare the religious problems to the Civil Rights movement but the gays cannot use it for their's, even though the gays are having a similar problem that the blacks were, not as seveare, but still.
BRV6969 2 years ago 4
I remember when it first popped up at church, some general authority was trying to get us all in England to write angry letters about it, as if we would be forced to let gay people get married in mormon temples. and I thought they just had it in for long haired youths who listen to alternative music. Glad to be out and have my head back.
Kommissar85UK 2 years ago
Umm....how is prop 8 an attack on lds bullshit?
alchron 2 years ago
Fuck prop 8, you homophobic bastards.
caseygtr 2 years ago 8
Calling him a dick would be a major insult to all dicks.
Antibaryon 2 years ago 9
Religious freedom *IS* under attack - The religious people in this country are waging a war against the non-religious. Passing laws forcing people to recognize your religious views as law is unarguably an assault on religious freedom.
intolerantape 2 years ago 5
I wonder if the similarities between LDS and LSD are just a coincidence. hmmm.
verstwo2 2 years ago 4
Religious freedom is being able to tell others to respect them.
myg0tpurepunk 2 years ago
This man is an absolute bigot. How can he claim his rights are being impeeded upon by people protesting a proposition which in itself not only impeeds other's civil rights, but completely blocks them from having civil rights.
This is why we have freedom of religion in the first place, so people like this assinine bigot can't tell me and you what we should be doing with our lives because his imaginary friend told him to.
The irony in his comment about African Americans is also laughable.
IanBillings00 2 years ago 4
That African American made me smile. The looks you get from some of the older ones when you suggest that if Adam was real, he was most likely black. Good times.
Kommissar85UK 2 years ago
Mormons got discriminated against for discriminating against gays. lolz
TooMuchButtHair 2 years ago 2
Freedom to exercise religious beliefs without fear of coercion or retaliation, which apparently means the freedom to use your religion to pass laws so the government can retaliate or coerce the people you disagree with morally, and do so on your behalf because of legislation you supported based on your "conscience".
Religious people disgust me beyond even my own comprehension.
RaminHAL9001 2 years ago 2
Klan members are discriminated against in todays society too. Respect the cross (burning or otherwise)
FarBeyondSYL 2 years ago 2
WHAT? Fundimentalists don't grasp irony? No kidding....
What an overwhelming persicution complex these psychologically projecting dipshits have.
EntinludeX 2 years ago 2
How dare gays desire to get married, that would violate this man's freedom to practice his bigoted religion!
jtbovis 2 years ago 3
You can tell this guy is what he is by just looking at him
cat00012000 2 years ago
lmao!
TheRationalOracle 2 years ago
it's funny how these biggots are claiming rights and compare it to being black just when they pushed for a law that only serves to discriminate against others for no logical reason. hypocites!
gargamel6699 2 years ago 4
The whole same sex marriage debate is stupid as hell. Stupid hicks that think it affects their damn religious BS. Here is a concept:
All "marriages" be called Unions by definition of the government and law. If there is a religious ceremony, then whoever can call it a marriage. That is fully dependent on the churches, not the government. They need to be kept separate. If Catholics don't want to accept same sex marriage, then they don't have to think of them as married.
nidodson 2 years ago 2
Religion is idioticity made into law.
It should be banish from public because it ´s an offence to sane people.
pcuimac 2 years ago
Tax churches and marijuana!!!!!!
dubyadub22 2 years ago 3
ok they want to push political stances in the pulpit, tax these mfers.
freethinker3161 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
What comes around goes around...
SoullessAtheist 2 years ago
fuck the mormons.
fuck jehovas witness while we are it...
HELL, fuck all religions
nestorrfortuna 2 years ago 7
he wants his religious beliefs respected?
his "beliefs" dont deserve respect, they are completely batshit and should be ridiculed at every opportunity
leo297 2 years ago 2
Apparently that in itself wasn't enough hypocrisy because the good Elder went on to compare this discrimination to that experienced by the African American population during the civil rights movement. This too is a bit rich when you consider that prior to 1978 black people were forbidden from joining the priesthood or entering a temple in the LDS church. At the time of the civil rights movement this was an openly racist organisation!
BipedalHumanoid 2 years ago 3
I wonder if anyone else noticed the complete and utter hypocrisy expressed by the LDS church this week in the United States. Elder Dallin H. Oaks was complaining about being discriminated against by the community in the aftermath of their support for proposition 8 (opposing same sex marriage in the state).
Ultimately, the complaint is that they're being discriminated against for discriminating against others!
BipedalHumanoid 2 years ago 2
Perhaps this dipshit missed the fact that a mormon was a serious candidate for the republican nomination.
In Texas you have to swear that you believe in a higher being while being sworn in to office, hows that for descrimination.
osr0 2 years ago 4
the only way to respect all religions equally is to respect none of them at all.
remove tax free status for religions!
tieInterceptor 2 years ago 4
That's faulty logic.
FriarShaun 2 years ago
says who? a theist nut like you? that just adds more weight to my argument.
special pleading is pathetic.
tieInterceptor 2 years ago
This is hilarious. Not only that an organisation that was openly racist until the 1970s would choose that particular analogy, but also the complaint itself... They're being discriminated against for discriminating against others!
Fucking hypocrites!
BipedalHumanoid 2 years ago 8
Every religion claims they're being discriminated against and their freedoms are being curtailed. Even though they all push anti-choice. This country can only benefit from a reduction in Christian 'values'. Freedom of religion equates to freedom from gun laws. We need Freedom from religion. Religious people need to practice religious tolerance and respect for those who do not follow their religion, as they would expect.
OccamsView 2 years ago 4
LOL! This is so stupid and ironic that I can't find words for it.
You deserve no respect. But you do have the right to basic civil rights... like everyone else! Even though your are a a person with questionable mental capacity.
ILYIAB 2 years ago
Another theist claiming his "rights" are being infringed... in this case, his rights to be a bigot and discriminatory moron against homosexuals. Then they try to compare it to the black civil rights movement.. this, coming from an organized cult that banned black Americans from receiving same levels of status within their church.
LDS = hypocrites.
coil311 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
norse40 2 years ago
Freedom from retaliation FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
Retaliation from people is not in the constitution!
You may have the freedom to insult, I have the freedom to get mad and insult back!
Sqirril 2 years ago
nobody has the right to insult, it is low and demeans both sides.
losarman 2 years ago
it doesn't matter how low insults may be, or whether it demeans either side. freedom of speech trumps all
kriztufer2001 2 years ago
The only way freedom of speech can work is if nobody has a right to not be insulted.
BipedalHumanoid 2 years ago
then there is no freedom of speech
nlytend1 2 years ago
Bullshit. there is no law protecting your from offence.
BipedalHumanoid 2 years ago 2
offending and insulting are two different things and just because there is no law against it does not make it right
losarman 2 years ago
What a pathetic attempt at a strawman argument. I didn't at any point make a case towards it being 'right'.
The case I was making is that you can't have a right to free speech and at the same time the right to not be offended.
BipedalHumanoid 2 years ago 3
LOL! Are you kidding? Did your daycare teacher tell you that? Or your mommy? Grow up.
dskrilla1 2 years ago
fuck off idiot.
oddly i dont feel demeaned. how about you?
carnut666 2 years ago
I love that... Mormons spend $20 MILLION to support the banning of gay marriage (which btw should have cost them their tax exempt status) and then complain that their own rights are being threatened... LoFuckingL
CultKiLLa 2 years ago 4
heh yeah
Sqirril 2 years ago
Poor analogy for a Mormon to use, but I do agree that the Public Square is not a "belief free" zone, either for the Theist or Atheist. The great thing about our country is it is based on the Biblical premise that man has freedom of choice given by God and that is not to be taken away.
FriarShaun 2 years ago
Simply google the term "white and delightsome" if you would like to know more about latter day saints and their religion, of which one of the basic tenets is racism.
wavymavy 2 years ago
It's amusing that elder Oaks compares the protest directed at the LDS to the backlash suffered by African Americans when one could draw a sound comparison between the discrimination leveled against A.A.'s and the discrimination currently leveled on homosexuals. The fight for gay rights is very similar to the fight for black rights. Just say no to fake gold plates, magic undies and 14 wives.
Chemicalogic 2 years ago
So his argument is that LDS has special legal rights to be protected against criticism over its policies that no one else in the nation has. Riiiiight!
mjr256 2 years ago
At 2:05:
"I maintain that this is a POLITICAL FACT, well qualified IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE by RELIGIOUS PEOPLE whose freedom to believe and act must always be protected by what is properly called our first freedom: The free exercise of religion."
He is admitting to his religion being involved in PUBLIC POLITICS. Why aren't these people having their tax-free status revoked on the spot?
No one is even stopping them from their beliefs, simply challenging their POLITICS in the PUBLIC SQUARE!
TheHealthySkeptic 2 years ago
its funny how they call themselves christian when they follow a nonbiblical book i.e. the book of mormon.
TheEvolver311 2 years ago
You took away someone else's rights, because your imaginary friend doesn't approve of how they live, and you expect us to respect you for it?
Stupid religious fucks- they always like to play the victim.
Innize 2 years ago
funny thing is.. prop 8 was in california... not utah.. why protest in salt lake morons, and its NOTHING compared to the problem with african americans voting in the 60's.. common.. stupid mormons.
furbydeathdealer 2 years ago
Everyone has the right to believe as they wish.
NO ONE has the right to automatic respect for their beliefs.
If these mormon morons can't earn respect for their beliefs, that's their own damn fault.
If these mormon fucks don't want to deal with being persecuted, then maybe they shouldn't have attempted to pass a law that persecutes others.
Mormon fuck-ups
Xerock 2 years ago 4
This old man is a walking corpse - a dying generation.
xxxFaustusxxx 2 years ago
Yes, they have a right to preach to their members. If they want to bar gay people from joining their church or being married in their church that is their right.
But they cross the line when they start cramming THEIR religion down the throats of people of other faiths or people who choose not to believe in invisible gods or fictitious prophets.
So when they interfered in the California vote they opened themselves up to retaliation.
AJ198540 2 years ago
What a repulsive bigotted hypocrite! He wants respect after actively destroying the rights of others? What's so special about his rights? These "christians" need to face the fact that this country has a secular government, we are NOT a theocrasy.
And by the way, now would be a good time to repeal the tax-free status of the mormon church.
madamezora7 2 years ago 2
Now would be a good time to do away with EVERY religions tax-free status, ESPECIALLY when they become political entities, lobbying and funding political movments and ideology. It is supposed to be against the tax-free stipulations to do what most churches are doing these days in this country (USA) with regard to politics and telling their followers how to vote and funding political causes.
TheHealthySkeptic 2 years ago 2
He wants to inject himself, his beliefs and his church into the political arena, fine. But then don't cry about being opposed by those you are attempting to discriminate against and STILL expect to be considered a tax-free, private religious entity.
These people need to choose: Private (tax-free) religion or Public (tax paying) politics. Besides, isn't paying taxes basically a part of being a true patriot?
TheHealthySkeptic 2 years ago 2
I don't agree with pretty much anything he says, but I don't think he's being outrageously out of line or anything. He's calm, respectful, clear, and wrong.
adamredwine 2 years ago
If you have the right to say you want to deny certain people rights because of their sexual preference, then people have the right to call you a jackass. It's not a one way street.
Also, it is wrong to discriminate and fire people because of their religious beliefs. That is unless they are approaching customers and starting theological debates. Managers have the right to fire you over that.
ashhole820 2 years ago
Most places cover that in the "work at will" contract now.
Xerock 2 years ago
What? Name ONE person who was fired because they voted Yes on Prop 8! Name ONE!!!
grifonecoronato 2 years ago 2
Religious values and beliefs are often intolerant and discriminatory. Therefore we should be intolerant of those beliefs.
In other words, spew your hateful trash, and you should be put out like the trash.
jarjarbinks77 2 years ago 4
he sounds like Adam West
LtotheoganX 2 years ago
Ever so surely the populace is growing weary of the falacy of religion.
JustinBringit 2 years ago 2
but where so close to eliminating religion, just a few more decades
adamvallieres01 2 years ago 2
If the church wants to get political, then they MUST start paying taxes.
My message to them: Pay up, or shut up.
TheOtherSide100 2 years ago 9
Amen to that.
mrbhave 2 years ago
They got what they wanted at the expense of a smaller community, that's NOT change... that's merely repeating history. What's worse is I seem to be the only person I know of who realizes how BADLY the black community lost in juxtoposition to their contributions to both black and American history. And their willing propogation nad support of mental slavery called "religion". When you have a group of people usurping the legal system to enforce religious dogma it's influence SHOULD die.
lowkeysatanist 2 years ago 2
God, this shit is hilarious.
ZamatoElite 2 years ago
i love how they say that the government and religion are interlinked, when the founding fathers where very openly against religion
adamvallieres01 2 years ago 3
A few of them. Thomas Jefferson being most notable.
ZamatoElite 2 years ago
What? The founding fathers were openly against religion? Are you insane? They were mostly freemasons which it is a requirement to belong to a religion to be a part, more ignorance without research.
jim1bob12001 2 years ago
His logic is SEVERELY FLAWED. Black people weren't in any position to use the law to oppress another community... unlike Nov 04, 2008. When most (I think approx. 80%) of all black voters voted YES on Prop 8. As a black person...I personally consider all blacks who call themselves civil rights activists and voted YES to be the REAL sellouts. I think about THAT everytime a black person says something to the effect of "act more black".
lowkeysatanist 2 years ago
YIIIIHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!1111!!!1
HandsupLX 2 years ago
Maybe they should stop trying to tell people how to live their lives before they complain about "Discrimination"
Liam000077 2 years ago 2
No one wants to stop anyone from practicing their religion or voting their conscience. We are protecting ourselves from you forcing people who do not believe as these people do by making your mythologies law.
educatedAtheist 2 years ago 2
Feels like blacks in the 60's? So he feels like he can't have the priesthood in the Mormon church?
AAL 2 years ago
What a joke..! Two thousand years of christian persecution of anything even remotely percieved as heretic and he wonders why some peeps are kinda SORE with hes silly superstitions...!!! I have to admit I'd love to go ROMAN on hes sorry ass and feed him to the fucking lions..!! Thumbs DOWN, u cunt..!!
PistonDriven 2 years ago
Fucktard.
InternetArgument 2 years ago
no one has said that mormons have to accept homosexuality and/or gay marriage!!!
the issue was the rights of others to have the same rights as mormons etc enjoy-----
the mormons are infringing on that right.
gggreggg 2 years ago
What a prick who is missing the point, and then to compare himself the plight of blacks and minorities is asinine. Black people are born black, unlike the superstitious asshats who choose to believe in fairy tales spun by the con artist joseph smith. Tell when again the mormons decided that black people could get into heaven? Fuck you elder oaks, right in your bigoted lie spewing ass!
BallzDeep4Jeebus 2 years ago
Demonstrating in public is legal. It does not constitute harrassment or intimidation. Were any Mormons lynched? Firing someone from their job because of their political beliefs (e.g. on gay marriage) may or may not be legal, depending on whether the job entails supporting a particular political stance. In any case, this guy's grievances are already address by existing laws. Buddy, if you think a crime has been committed, then report it. If not, quit whining.
aquaman10231 2 years ago
People's freedom, dignity, and equality shouldn't be up for a democratic vote.
OnlyIfYouSayPlease 2 years ago
Wow, the hypocrisy! Funny how his god needs human approval...
FallenAngel0fDoom 2 years ago 2