@YouAreIsrael Thank you for the correction. I had made an asumption from when Paul stated that he was trained in the strictest sect (( I have no reference off the top of my head) I'll get that in a bit) in...oh, here we go... Acts 26:5. I had thought that to be a pharisee that Paul would have been a Levite. Was I way off on that? Being Gentile I'm not versed well in the tradition but prefer not to misrepresent anyone if it is avoidable.
...messianic prophecies. At any rate people who where called by God and wrote of Him was the standard in his(Paul"s) time. Paul (being called by Jesus on the road) and the other Apostles (being selected by Jesus by hand) would have their writing recognized as scripture. It's not ESP...it's just reasoning. If we had untainted and complete writings ( or comparable copies ) of Thomas' or Philip's or Andrew's then Paul would have assumed these to be scripture since they were written by Jesus' select
I'm not sure who voted you down. I guess some people aren't fans. Of course I can't speak for Paul but he may have reasoned that anything written by the Apostles would become Scripture. Canonization is what the Church used to identify scripture early in it modern infancy...but the Judists recognized scripture by accurate prophecies (siting it's author as true prophets of God) or other narratives that reflect history that revealed God's will (i.e. Ruth or Job) even these posessed ...
Aaah now I see. You make a good question. It may be that Paul didn't refer to his own writings as Scripture, thinking them only as letters of instruction for believers. But rather the Holy Spirit working through Paul causes the "sacredness" of these writings to transcend the boundries of Saul/Paul's life time...from conception to death.
Paul may have recognized that other records of Jesus' life (i.e. Gospel of Matthew or Mark) may be recognized as scripture or perhaps some of the letters from the original apostles like Peter. Greg kinda points out that Paul may be giving new writings of others as scripture and later in Peters letter Paul gets the same "nod".
I'm a big fan who has gone from disagreeing with you (Oneness Pentecostal), to agreeing with you, to disagreeing in totally different ways (Orthodox).
How do you make sense of the fact that Paul mentions, in a verse prior, that he has known "the sacred writings" from his childhood and then says this line which seems to correlate 'scripture' with the 'sacred writings he knew from childhood'?
gCuezy...I know your question was not directed at me but I was wondering the nature of your quiery.
I would think that 'scripture' is difined as 'sacred writings.' Now the word 'sacred' is not the same as 'holy' which is a word many use to discribe any inspired Word of God. But in this case in 2 Timothy where Paul uses two titles for these writings is (what I believe) similar to someone calling the Bible the Word of God or the Good Book.
Sorry maybe the quotes were misplaced (although I was quoting).
I was actually asking Greg how he deals with the fact that Paul states Timothy has known these writings since "childhood" which would obviously make it impossible that he's referring to the new testament (without some hermeneutical gymnastics).
If I am not mistaken Paul was originally part of the Levitical Priesthood and was known as Saul at that time. Being a Levite means that he was a direct decendent of Levi one of the 12 sons of Jacob. That blood line was identified in the Books of Moses as the people who would not gain land in Canaan but rather The Lord God Jehovah as their inheritance from God. They would serve God as ministers for the people of Israel. Of that lineage, decendents from Aaron would serve as priests and scribes.
Sorry I never saw this response... I'm not asking HOW Paul knew the scriptures from childhood, I'm pointing out that the scriptures in question CANNOT be the new testament books IF he "knew the scriptures from his childhood." Unless you give him some sort of ESP or some Ad Hoc explanation about him knowing the future scriptures (which were canonized by the Church MUCH later).
Almighty God, the Big Bang, Evolution, Reincarnation and Pendulum Dowsing are related subjects.
Listening to my selection of short videos will help you come to terms with the Holy Bible and Holy Quran and encourage atheists to reconsider the existence of Almighty God.
It's amazing to me that Christians generally ignore 2 Timothy 3:16 when it comes to the seventh-day sabbath!
YouAreIsrael 1 year ago
@YouAreIsrael Thank you for the correction. I had made an asumption from when Paul stated that he was trained in the strictest sect (( I have no reference off the top of my head) I'll get that in a bit) in...oh, here we go... Acts 26:5. I had thought that to be a pharisee that Paul would have been a Levite. Was I way off on that? Being Gentile I'm not versed well in the tradition but prefer not to misrepresent anyone if it is avoidable.
cmitchrunner 1 year ago
...messianic prophecies. At any rate people who where called by God and wrote of Him was the standard in his(Paul"s) time. Paul (being called by Jesus on the road) and the other Apostles (being selected by Jesus by hand) would have their writing recognized as scripture. It's not ESP...it's just reasoning. If we had untainted and complete writings ( or comparable copies ) of Thomas' or Philip's or Andrew's then Paul would have assumed these to be scripture since they were written by Jesus' select
cmitchrunner 1 year ago
gCuezy,
I'm not sure who voted you down. I guess some people aren't fans. Of course I can't speak for Paul but he may have reasoned that anything written by the Apostles would become Scripture. Canonization is what the Church used to identify scripture early in it modern infancy...but the Judists recognized scripture by accurate prophecies (siting it's author as true prophets of God) or other narratives that reflect history that revealed God's will (i.e. Ruth or Job) even these posessed ...
cmitchrunner 1 year ago
Can you put up the volume please / the audio is to low.
serrano59 2 years ago
Aaah now I see. You make a good question. It may be that Paul didn't refer to his own writings as Scripture, thinking them only as letters of instruction for believers. But rather the Holy Spirit working through Paul causes the "sacredness" of these writings to transcend the boundries of Saul/Paul's life time...from conception to death.
cmitchrunner 2 years ago
Paul may have recognized that other records of Jesus' life (i.e. Gospel of Matthew or Mark) may be recognized as scripture or perhaps some of the letters from the original apostles like Peter. Greg kinda points out that Paul may be giving new writings of others as scripture and later in Peters letter Paul gets the same "nod".
cmitchrunner 2 years ago
I'm a big fan who has gone from disagreeing with you (Oneness Pentecostal), to agreeing with you, to disagreeing in totally different ways (Orthodox).
How do you make sense of the fact that Paul mentions, in a verse prior, that he has known "the sacred writings" from his childhood and then says this line which seems to correlate 'scripture' with the 'sacred writings he knew from childhood'?
gCuezy 2 years ago
gCuezy...I know your question was not directed at me but I was wondering the nature of your quiery.
I would think that 'scripture' is difined as 'sacred writings.' Now the word 'sacred' is not the same as 'holy' which is a word many use to discribe any inspired Word of God. But in this case in 2 Timothy where Paul uses two titles for these writings is (what I believe) similar to someone calling the Bible the Word of God or the Good Book.
cmitchrunner 2 years ago
Sorry maybe the quotes were misplaced (although I was quoting).
I was actually asking Greg how he deals with the fact that Paul states Timothy has known these writings since "childhood" which would obviously make it impossible that he's referring to the new testament (without some hermeneutical gymnastics).
gCuezy 2 years ago
If I am not mistaken Paul was originally part of the Levitical Priesthood and was known as Saul at that time. Being a Levite means that he was a direct decendent of Levi one of the 12 sons of Jacob. That blood line was identified in the Books of Moses as the people who would not gain land in Canaan but rather The Lord God Jehovah as their inheritance from God. They would serve God as ministers for the people of Israel. Of that lineage, decendents from Aaron would serve as priests and scribes.
cmitchrunner 2 years ago
Sorry I never saw this response... I'm not asking HOW Paul knew the scriptures from childhood, I'm pointing out that the scriptures in question CANNOT be the new testament books IF he "knew the scriptures from his childhood." Unless you give him some sort of ESP or some Ad Hoc explanation about him knowing the future scriptures (which were canonized by the Church MUCH later).
gCuezy 1 year ago
@cmitchrunner - Paul was a Benjamite, not a Levite. See Romans 11:1
YouAreIsrael 1 year ago
And why would I get voted down for asking an honest question? I even said I'm a big fan!! I have pictures to prove it... haha.
gCuezy 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Almighty God, the Big Bang, Evolution, Reincarnation and Pendulum Dowsing are related subjects.
Listening to my selection of short videos will help you come to terms with the Holy Bible and Holy Quran and encourage atheists to reconsider the existence of Almighty God.
jrnjames1 2 years ago