John P. Meier: Jesus the Jew - But What Sort of Jew?

[914light]

Jesus was a Palestinian Israelite from Judea ...

something like an Irish Catholic from America : )

that speaker is an odd ball

[strugglinalong]

No, John Meier is a Catholic Priest and professor of theology at Notre Dame.

[devila1980]

O my, you Jews has created universe!! whats wrong with you people for such a long time?? you really like to provoke everyone and then cry how no one loves you? now when you have infiltrated in every main sector on earth, you want to rewrite a history and change religions?? you just stick together, invest in education of your people and put them on main positions as you did by now so you can spread your 'truth' and 'interpretations' until you reveal finally that Jews are creators of the earth ;)

[devila1980]

is this John Meier Jew?? hahahha no doubt!!!

[devila1980]

is this John Meier Jew?? hahahha no doubt!!!

[strugglinalong]

The competing views for what is "Christianity" in the middle and latter part of the 1st century make teh statement, "Paul was the first Christian doctrinaly" completely unworkable. This is why sholars like Ehrman can become so popular so quickly, the continued belief among many that Chirstianity is distinctly Pauline. It just goes to show the influence of Paul among Protestants. As regards Justin, a look at "Matthew" or Ignatius makes that statement dubious as well.

[Franknarfable]

@strugglinalong - What Ehrman fails to understand (bare with me) is that the Pauline Epistles where written after the gospels. They must of been. The books in the New Testament are in the order they where written. I know what you're thinking, scholars think Mark was written before Matthew and Luke. A version of Mark was written first, but the final Mark was written after Matthew (just a theory that makes sense to me).

Matthew was always intended to first as it's a parody of the Torah.

[strugglinalong]

@Franknarfable So far I have no reason to doubt modern scholars. For me, Ehrman’s problem was his fundamentalist background and overall early view of the bible. Fundamentalists have a really hard time with modern scholasticism. Still, I appreciate your views and would still recommend Antioch and Rome by Brown and Meier. You will find it an interesting, good read.

[strugglinalong]

@Franknarfable Well I certainly appreciate your views. However, you must be aware that most scholars would disagree with you sharply in this matter. The common pseudographs of Paul, such as Timothy and Titus would be later "constructs" but Galatians and Romans are accepted as authentic. Dating Mark at 65-75AD is commonly accepted. Galatians could likely have been late 50's.

[Franknarfable]

@strugglinalong - I am totally aware of what is commonly accepted. How about I provide reason to doubt your modern scholars?

1) Titus begins at Galilee, his men fish the enemy from the water

2) Titus goes to Gadara, the enemy described as wild beasts flee into the water

3) In Jerusalem, Mary eats the flesh of her son during passover

4) Three men crucified, One survives

5) Simon is killed in Rome and John is spared

Simon also denies Titus three times.

cont'd

[Franknarfable]

@strugglinalong - cont'd

Jesus predicts that a generation on, the son of man will come and destroy Jerusalem. Titus fulfills this prophecy.

At the end of John, Jesus predicts that Simon will be led to his death and John will be spared. He is because John wrote "this". Titus kills Simon and spares John.

The characters in the NT are lampoons of the Jewish leaders defeated by Vespasian and Titus.

You following this?

[Franknarfable]

@strugglinalong - cont'd

The major stumbling block for scholars is Paul. They've just not figured him out yet. So many different ideas from Ehrman to Eisenman and all wrong. He is a literary construct. It's like looking for a needle that isn't even in the haystack. The character is clearly constructed using the life and works of Josephus.

Christianity is a Flavian religion written under the reigns of Vespasian (the father), Titus (the good son) and Domitian (the holy spirit) - The Trinity.

[TheAmazingamerica]

Maybe but that is why He insisted John baptise Him, so literally I guess He would be the first Christian? He baptised John. Either way, once they became Christian they gave up their Jewish identity. I will have to look up Justin Martyr.

[strugglinalong]

@TheAmazingamerica May I suggest "Antioch and Rome". A closer hearing of this particular video should help dispel the notion that followers of Jesus, "gave up their Jeish identity". As I said in the other post, the competing views for what "Christianity" would become were many and varied. In the 1st century they were decidedly "Jewish" and it was not until after the fall of the temple and the loss of power coming from Jerusalem that the gentile movement becomes prominent.

[xspettacolare]

howard stern was the first jew jesus wasnt a real jew..

[brucefetter]

he reminds me in his lecture style of Jaroslav Pelikan. Two greats.

[TheAmazingamerica]

@TheLifeProLife I agree, pushing historical Jesus is not Christian.

[vecumex9466]

If you don't like what John P Meier has to say about the historical Jesus don't watch it...Some of us will..

[agnostaxian]

thanx for posting this

[ConsecrateRussia]

@TheLifeProLife He’s basically saying that Jesus was a bad Jew and nothing like a faithful Catholic. This man is filled with blasphemy!

[Jugglable]

I don't get it at all. This guy doubts the virgin birth and things like that. I can understand if you doubt that. But then why the heck would you be a PRIEST? Either those things happen, or your faith was founded on lies. If you believe the stories about Jesus are so made up, at least have some consistency and integrity and don't say you're a Christian.

[onceuponapriori]

@Jugglable Good evening. Please realize that belief in Christianity does not require belief in inerrancy (the belief that the Bible is except from error.) For proof of this, consider the fact that the original Christians didn't even have the New Testament; ergo, they certainly could not be inerrantist with respect to "the Bible", which did not yet exist. Certainly, a Christian must believe that certain central parts of the Bible reveal truth, but inerrancy is inessential to Christianity per se.

[Jugglable]

@onceuponapriori If they were willing to write an untrue story about something as huge as the virgin birth, I don't see how you believe the other stuff. Picking and choosing.

[onceuponapriori]

@Jugglable There's an entire library of books written by professional historians and philosophers seeking to establish rational methods of historical analysis. They apply those methods of research to the extant texts. J.P. Meier's multivolume set "A Marginal Jew" does precisely that. All Christians are forced to use a reason to interpret scripture, to decide what's literal, what's metaphor, etc. This does the same with the extant sources. You can disagree with it, but it's not contradictory.

[Jugglable]

@onceuponapriori I am curious about you. Are you a Christian? And do you disbelieve in the virgin birth?

[onceuponapriori]

@Jugglable I am a Christian. I believe in the virgin birth, provisionally. It's among the purported facts about the historical Jesus that I find myself doubting most and most often. I accept it for now because I have found the New Testament to be generally trustworthy. But I wouldn't be terribly surprised, after more study, to find that the evidence for the virgin birth is lacking. I also don't believe that it's a required belief. Some early Christians groups seemed to do well with Mark alone.

[Jugglable]

@onceuponapriori The virgin birth is in every Christian creed, though!

[onceuponapriori]

@Jugglable All of the "standard" creeds, yes. But not the earliest creed: 1 corinthians 15:3-7 :-P

[KapStuf]

@onceuponapriori "I believe in the virgin birth, provisionally."

Surely you know about the Alma/Betulah/Parthenos problem? That the Hebrew word for 'young woman' was mistranslated into the Greek for 'virgin'. It's on every christian theology syllabus worth the name - and it's always instructive to watch students' reactions to it.

[onceuponapriori]

@KapStuf Good point. Yes, I've heard several competing explanations from several of my trusted scholarly sources. If I had to make a judgement based on my own lack of personal knowledge of the languages involved, I'd probably guess that it was indeed the effect of a mistranslation. But, not being an expert, I provisionally suspend judgement... His birth or not from a virgin honestly matters very little to me in my day to day faith. I have more pressing theological issues with which to deal ;-]

[strugglinalong]

@KapStuf The Alma/Betulah/Parthenos "problem" has never been a forefront issue because we have no documents to suggest that Hebrew scribes ever dicredited or debated Parthenos. It is a mountain out of a molehill. The real issue is the inclusion in the lineage of Mark and Luke. This particular "problem" is anything but.

[KapStuf]

@strugglinalong "we have no documents to suggest that Hebrew scribes ever dicredited or debated Parthenos"

You seem to be confusing Hebrew scribes with Greek translators centuries later.

"the lineage of Mark and Luke"

Matthew and Luke, IIRC. And it's two problems - the incompatibility of two lineages, and the questions of why Joesph's lineage should matter at all if he wasn't Jesus's father.

[strugglinalong]

@KapStuf No, the Septuigent was in distribution some 200 years before the birth of Jesus. It's original scribes were Hebrew scribes, not Greek translators. The obvious error I made above was to site Mark in stead of Matthew. No, the contention stands. The Alma/Parthenos "problem" is no real problem at all.

[KapStuf]

@strugglinalong The word 'Septuagint' (note spelling) was a koine Greek translation of what we now call the Old Testament. The translation issues of Mary's virginhood are obviously of the New Testament - whose translations of terms from Hebrew to Greek (eg Meshiah > Christos) may or may not reflect errors fossilised from the Septuagint.

[strugglinalong]

@KapStuf not only does teh Hebrew alma and betulah mean young lady, as in not mariied (virgin) but the Greek Septuigent was clearly in circulation some 200 to 250 years before Christ. It was translated, I believe, for Ptolemy or another occupier by Hebrew scribes into the Greek language. The area of question (not concern) is why Matthew and Luke add the narrative. Your argument needs to be abandoned.

[TheAmazingamerica]

@Jugglable he is a spy.

[onceuponapriori]

@Jugglable "If you believe the stories about Jesus are so made up, at least have some consistency and integrity and don't say you're a Christian.[...] Either those things happen, or your faith was founded on lies." If we drop a Gospel of Mark into North Korea, and someone reads the entire book, and asks Jesus to be their Lord and Savior, are they saved? They would have NO knowledge of the Virgin Birth. So is belief in a Virgin Birth truly absolutely necessary to Christian faith, or not?

[PaulRon2008]

The guy looks gay

[Monies1899]

I find it both amusing and bemusing at the way that so many people give all their opinions and views, many of which are unfounded without showing any original research or even a demonstration that it is scholarly consensus to back them up.

For e.g. Jesus is a definitely historical person who existed in first-century Judah, the Gospels, Josephus and other historians such as Tacitus show this and are very good historical witnesses.

[HiDefJesus]

@Monies1899 In Meier's first book he deals with Josephus. Even after deleting potential Christian interpolations, it can be safely stated that this first-century source, independent of the four Gospels, confirms their basic presentation: that during the rule of Pontius Pilate there appeared on the Palestine religious scene a man named Jesus who had a reputation for wisdom and miracle working, who won a following, was crucified, and his followers not not abandon their devotion after this event.

[wanshei]

Without question John Meier is definitely a highly educated and articulate man but offers no proof of jesus existence and is working entirely from the bible which is a composite of documents. He attempts to be substantive in a particularly verbose and articulate way but again, he is standing and pontificating on pure sand. He even uses Josephus as a reference - sad. They have made an entire industry on a non-historical person invented by the Roman Councils.

[MrJapaneseboy1111]

jesus was a jew from judea !

(palestine is a roman colonial invention the change the name judea to syria-palestina)

all his early followers were JEWS !

christianity as a religion started approx 300 years after he "died"?!

[Monies1899]

@MrJapaneseboy1111 Christianity started with Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. If you read Acts 11 you will see that they are first called Christians in Antioch.

[Clement1964]

Jesus was a Galilean.

[dies1domini]

Why not?

[Clement1964]

JESUS WAS NOT A JEW!!!!

[bighugejake]

yeah, he was

[tazpi]

@Clement1964 Of course he IS a jew. Are you ignorant or a antisemitt or what?

[afrolatino380]

The khazars were non semitic people. They were converts to Judiasm

[MuscleBeatsImport]

True Jews are Christians

[Inupiatun]

Wow, Jews are not Christians.

They are two fundamentally different religions. Thats not to say that they cant get along ;D

[MuscleBeatsImport]

When you prefect Judaism then you get Christianity.

[Inupiatun]

When you perfect Judaism you get perfected Judaism not Christianity.

The jewish concept of the messiah is very different than christianities is. The jews dont believe that Jesus was the messiah. How can you even say that the two are the same?

They are fundamentally different.

[peacelovedog]

@Inupiatun glad to see someone state this so clearly. When a christian says - "why don't you believe that Jesus is the messiah?" they mean why don't you believer that he is "God". But there is NO belief in Judaism that the messiah would be God - this is totally anti Jewish!!!!!!!!!

[GohModley]

@MuscleBeatsImport When you perfect Christianity you get Mormonism.

Get fucked you pussy!

[peacelovedog]

@MuscleBeatsImport So you are saying that God got it wrong? God started Judaism/The Covenant - it amazes me to hear that God got it so wrong by giving all of the Mitzvot/commandments. Why would have God bothered with all of this Jewish thing if it really took the death of his son to create the "right" relationship. God comes off as rather stupid here. Didn't God tell the Jews that their Covenant/brit was everlasting? - doesn't Christianity make God a liar?

[Monies1899]

@Inupiatun They aren't extremely different. Christianity simply completes Judaism by answering prophecies and the expectation of a Messiah. However, Jesus does not fit the Jewish language of' Messiahship' and therefore has been and still is rejected by many Jews.

[Judel100]

@Monies1899 Actually the reason Jesus is rejected by many Jews is that his claim to being the Messiah, the saviour of Israel, was twisted by Paul into a claim to divinity. There is nothing in the Hebrew Bible or in Matthew, Mark and Luke about Jesus being the Son of God. The early Christians shot themselves in the foot by combining the Jewish concept of the Messiah with a downright pagan and idolatrous notion that a man can be God. Oh and on this point Jews and Muslims agree.

[peacelovedog]

@MuscleBeatsImport This is absurd - God gave the Mitzvot/commandments and created the Covenant with Jews. He told them that the Brit was everlasting (read the Torah) Sorry no death of a god/man needed

[LothairOfLorraine]

@peacelovedog Would you comment on Jer 31:31 and Isaiah 9:1-6. Do you see the potential for a new covenant with a divine birth at the center?

[donjaundemichael]

The existence of this Kingdom is not is dispute. The population of Khazar-Jews could be. These factoids mean nothing to your anti-Jewish position.

[donjaundemichael]

MOST CERTAINLY there was a connection between the people of the area and the residents. AT NO TIME in history are the members of the tribe of Judah, amalgamated with the foreign residents of the land of Judah. Freedman is wrong. His conclusions are inaccurate his methodology flawed.

[donjaundemichael]

This is certainly not a response to the genetic similarities that exist in the Cohen Y. The development of the diseases you mention are evidence of inbreeding, not conspiracy.

[donjaundemichael]

Jews lived in Galilee. They made pilgrimage to the Temple. The geneologies in Matthew and Luke trace his family back through Judah, son of Jacob, called Israel.

[wheatandtares]

compare the geneology from Matthew and Luke, it's not the same.

[donjaundemichael]

The point of using both Matt and Luke was that they are both traced through Judah to Issac to Abraham.

[donjaundemichael]

Wow, this is thoroughly inaccurate. Wow. Don't quote this noise. It is inaccurate.

[ygalg]

worship Moloch is not Judaic tenet. from biblical account there were sinners among the jews and we know for 2000 years that passed christians were no saint either. the key word in Jeremiah is "among"

jesus was not Judea resident originally. however to be claim jesus to be the messiah he has to be of Judean tribe thus a jew. otherwise the claim about his be the messiah, has no leg to stand on.

[ygalg]

for historian he is not accurate.

Edomites? lol

[shayshalom]

jesus was a jew from galil/ efers 2 name of the jews in hebrew IN EXODUCE/ israeli is the united name of all jews

[shayshalom]

N ANOTHER THING - WHO WHICH CLAIMED ANY ONE OF THE JEWS PEOPLE SAID FUCKING HITLER was a HOLY JEWISH - LIES N IS ANTISEMETIST. JEWS WERE ALLWAYS PERSECUTED BECAUSE OF JELOUSE - THEY CHANGED THE WORLD - N THE WORLD WANT TO CHANGE THEM - AS IT WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE

[shayshalom]

4 all the ignorends here - jews=hebrews=israelised. hebrew was the name bcause of ABRAHAM cross eber (jordan river in hebrew). Israel beacuse of JACOB named by god. jews = juda = main tribe of Israel which remained till today n terms to DAVID ASSENDENTS.

[DigsDeeper]

Jesus was a "hebrew" but he was not part of that wicked sect of hebrews called "jews" that is hated by God eternally. Jews have an ancient psyche warfare technique where they will falsely claim the greatest leader of their enemy (Jesus, Hitler, etc) was really a jew in order to try to make impotent all of the followers of the great leader if they can be made to believe thru black propaganda that he was really a jew. It takes a brain to see thru all of the jew lies so you are out of luck

[Mirpuri420]

Halaqiq, the Arabic word Halaqa means a circle,  used for focused-studies, or indepth studies ...

[2smarttboiz]

llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll­llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll­llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll­llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll­llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll­lllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[gjylymsere]

if jesus was a jew, whyy did he speak aramaic, and not hewbrew?

[Mirpuri420]

YOu can be Jew and not Speak Hebrew, Jews spoke Arabic living in Arabian peninsula, spoke Aramaic, and Hebrew and even Greek, Latin etc ...

[ygalg]

Aramaic was the franca lingua at that time

hebrew was only used in prayers etc.

[nonoylopez]

don't you think this belief is outdated already? see bart ehrman's misquoting jesus

[Elysiadf]

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Thomas, Sne

[silentlyfrantic]

HEB 8:10

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Please quote scripture accurately. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 for a more complete understanding on your horrible misquote. You border on blasphemy ..............................

[Achilles1389]

The scriptures cannot possibly be any more explicit than in Hebrews 8:10, in which God says:

"The Jews are no longer in the covenant he made in the Old Testament. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day when I took them by the hand out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord."

Is it any wonder that Jews reject the New Testament and that Israel forbids even quoting from it in their schools?

[foggjohn]

Just read the Marginal Jew. The 14th of Nisan was originally the Passover. The 15th of Nisan, however was a day of rest (Sabbath) and marked the First Day of Unleavened Bread'.Jews after the disposia celebrated the Passover on the First Day of Unleavened Bread the 15th. Jesus must have kept both days. The 14th He celebrated with His deciples and the 15th of Nisan as well.

Also, why doesn't anyone ever comment on Matthew 12: 39-41?

[rhighland]

interestingly enough, note the speaker- John Paul Meier, french magnate. Of course, all this nonsensical debate about Jesus' identity has become as mindless as the Gospel of Peter. Was Jesus really a central Jew? Hell no!!!

[artyphax]

Jesus was not a Jew. He was not a Judean, but a Galilean. He was not a a follower of the Pharisees either. The word :"Jew" was not coined until the 18th Century, meant to denote a practitioner of Judaism. It was meant to obscure the non-Semitic nature of the Khazars or European 'Jews.'

[ygalg]

Judeans can be refer to some one who from tribe of Judah or someone who lived in Judah territory. tho they are both connected as Judah tribe lived in that territory therefore it named Judah.

if jesus was not belongs to Judah tribe it means he is not the messiah son of David. and christians rely on that detail that he is of David...paradoxical no?

[donjaundemichael]

Again, inaccurate, the tracing of chromosomes in Cohen (priests) is evidence that this theory that ALL jews are descended of the Khazar jews is inaccurate. We could talk about the existance of the Levite tribe in greater Jewish populations and how all that works. But the evidence suggests the Jews of Khazar descent mixed thoroughly with the Jews of the diaspora, before and after the mongols forced emigration in the 13thC. This is history, what you have wrote, is not.

[KpEMuKoBcu]

Oh please.If you jews loved Jesus so much why did you kill him because he was going to change your precious traditions.You betrayed god,give it a brake....

[ygalg]

did we? is there a historical record that will verify it even occur? according to the christian myth he was crucified by romans. your forefathers. so the question is directed to you. why have you killed him?

[abe2517]

Meier, not a very catholic surname if you catch my drift. Over an hour of already well known Murano Hasbara, ie: crypto-tribe propaganda, been done better elsewhere.

[FrankenBosey]

Thank you for uploading this lecture.  -f

[youknowImsaying]

this guy is going straight to hell!

followers too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!read the Bible!!!!! nothing more

[TheGeneralRule]

Jesus was a hebrew but he was not part of that specific sect called "jews". It's part of the age-old jewish brainwashing program to claim jesus as a jew just like they tried to convince everyone that Hitler was a jew. The intention is to make the enemy of the jews impotent by stealing their greatest leader as one of their own. Only the weak-minded are not able to see thru all the constant lying of the jews.

[StevoDog21]

Uh, wrong there ,General. Jesus (Yeshua Bar-Jusef, to use his real name) most certainly was a Jew. Jew means of the Judaic tradition and religion, the followers of the god Yahweh, who established the nation of Israel and it's offshoot Judea. They were not a "sect". Judaism contains many sects,i.e. Saducees,Pharasees,Samaritans,­Essenes,Ebionites,etc. Hebrew is a language group, a subset of the Semitic language phylum. Not all Semites were Hebrews; not all Hebrews were Jews. ++

[StevoDog21]

++So yes, moron- Jesus was a Jew, so deal with it. (And he spoke Aramaic by the way). But I'm sure this conversation is already way over your head. Only a weak-minded asshole like yourself would not be able to see through the constant lying of the wannabe-Hitler skinheads. And nobody says Hitler was a Jew, dipshit- they say he was an idiot, a total loser, and almost certainly gay. All of which IS true. And also true of the vast majority of his worshipers today.

[robby2k]

This is brilliant, thanks. Fr. Meier is probably the best Historical Jesus scholar alive today (along with N.T.Wright). His Marginal Jew is brilliant, and if you want a good summary, look up his article on Jesus in the New Jerome Biblical Commentary.

[gasmasterX]

jesus the jew?

lol

where's hitler when you need him

[RichHeasley]

your fucked up lol

[paradiddle1]

jack, I would absolutely agree with you. It's quite telling the very few comments about this video...perhaps I'm wrong but it doesn't seem that many folks are interested in hearing a reasoned approach to things Jesus; always ready to chew on the sensationalim of Spong or Funk or the absurdity of Baigent and Brown. Quite sad really!

[Gerry319]

Many are interested only in short controversial sound bites. Listen to a prolonged, challenging lecture? No way.

[paradiddle1]

Meier is in the top 5 must know scholars in Jesus studies...thanks for this post!!

[jackaltwothree]

John Meier is a very careful scholar as you can see in this video. This is definitely a must see video for the critically minded Christian. It is, I dare say, one of the most important videos on Jesus on the Internet--I mean this in all seriousness!

[EtripsIN]

en español por favor!!

[TheyTookMyThumbs]

Christ was not jewish by any means. Jews have many ancient cultural survival mechanisms such as always claiming the greatest leader of their enemy to be a jew in order to leave them confused and impotent. Jews have done this many times such as with the nazarene Jesus and also the bavarian Adolf Hitler. Neither one was jewish but claiming them as jews is a big part of the psychological warfare gameplan of the jews which is always formulated decades in advance by the ingenius rabbis.

[jdeobeso]

Jesus not jewish? Boy, are you ignorant.

[phil8888]

@jdeobeso who are you talking to?

[SuperAntiZionist]

@jdeobeso

Judaism didn't even exist in the time of Jesus! Only the religion of the Israelites did!

Thus Jesus could not possibly have been a Jew.

He followed the religion of the Israelites and fulfilled its prophecy = Christianity.

Judaism didn't come into existence until the Rabbinic councils and the oral law (Talmud, etc) was written down, after Jesus' death. Jesus HATED the oral law (which is the center of Judaism) and rightfully said it was Satanic.

Idiot.

[Judel100]

@SuperAntiZionist Wipe the foam from your anti-Zionist mouth and learn something. The oral law is the MISHNAH, the Talmud being Mishnah plus Rabbinic COMMENTARY (Gemarrah), juxtaposed on each page. Rabbinic Judaism evolved from the Pharisaic strand of ancient Judaism which co-existed and competed with the Sadducee and Essene strands until the fall of the 2nd Temple. The term "Jew" dates from the Babylonian exile and is first used in the book of Esther, which have obviously never read.

[TheAmazingamerica]

@jdeobeso Jesus was the first Christian.

[xspettacolare]

@TheAmazingamerica

lmao jesus was the first christian? silly rabbit..

[TheAmazingamerica]

@xspettacolare Who was the first Christian then? sillier rabbit.

[Judel100]

@TheAmazingamerica Paul was the first Christian doctrinally. Justin Martyr was the first Christian to self-identify as one.

[SgtJimPembry]

Jesus was a "hebrew" but he most certainly was not a "jew". There are many proofs that jesus was not a jew such as the fact that he was unable to read or write so spoke everything. Only the wealthy of that era received schooling but the jewish kids all received schooling as part of their training to become professional criminals like their parents and their parents. Jesus was a poor kid who was neither wealthy nor jewish.

[SBB1066A]

Pembry, wow. Your perception of Jews is ridiculous. If Jesus was listening to you right now He'd be grieved at the hardness of your heart. Your heart is hard, and there's nothing more to say. Jesus was a Jew, is the Messiah who came to redeem both Jews and Gentiles from their sins.

[ppfuchs]

What a brilliant guy. John Meier's class at Catholic University entitled Greco-Roman Background of the New Testament (or something like that) was the best class I took at Catholic University. It has given me a an insight into Albert Pike's great work Morals and Dogma. Would that most Catholic scholars had the style of this man.