Izzo Vivi PID, a near perfect espresso shot, E61 group head

[joeldamianicigan]

Nice machine! I would opt for the dual boiler, Izzo Alex Duetto ii myself. The PID seems more useful for this application.

[acoffeemaker]

Just curious, why drain so much water before the shot. Just PIDed my Zaffiro, checked with a DIY thermo-portafilter, after about the first 5cc, water from the group head has been stablised and maintained at within 2 degree C above the PID Set temperature. Let in too much cold water will lower the boiler too much and spoil the work done by the PID.

[sversimo]

@acoffeemaker

Good question, most likely i flushed more then necessary in this shot. But the boiler in this machine is more then to times the size of Zaffiro, correct me if I'm wrong, so its more temperature stable when it comes to flushing. The manufacturer recommends flushing about 6 oz when the machine has been inactive for some time.

Did you notice any difference in flavour after installing a PID?

[acoffeemaker]

@sversimo

Zaff's boiler is about 0.8L, not know about VIVO. Espresso from Zaff has always been good, I put the PID in to get rid of temp frustration so that I can be test the difference between shots when I was tweaksing the ground/ time/ temp. in principle PID keeps the temp. water in boiler stable in the stand-by state, once the pump is engaged cold water comes in, only the boiler size and brew group mass play part in temp stability. 6oz seems too massive, may be manufacturer has a reason.

[acoffeemaker]

@sversimo

Got it, VIVI is a Heat exchanger machine. That's why they recommend to flush that much. I don't know the how much PID can bring to a HX machine. So how stable can VIVI maintain? Ever measure it with Thermo PF?

[sversimo]

@acoffeemaker

Ah, I see. Yes, it's a HX-machine. But i thought Zaff also was heat exchanger. I'm actual not sure myself how much a difference it makes. I haven't measured the temperature. I'm thinking of it do.. The boiler is somewhere between 1.5-2 L( some say 3L), and with the PID it can keep the temperature stable plus/minus 1 degree C in the boiler. When flushing its more of a danger to "underflush" then to "overflush" since the boiler temp will keep +- 1C. Do zaff have 2 boilers?

[acoffeemaker]

@sversimo

Zaffiro is single boiler, HX version is Tea. Good thing about single boiler is no need for flushing, and the brew temp is easier to control. Down side being it takes about 2 minutes to get up to steaming temp. Even worst is it take tens of minutes to cool down to brew temp. HX machine can do steaming and brewing any time, if one can master the flushing time. I never steam milk at home, so Zaffiro is my choice.

I think VIVI boiler is 1.5 L, 3L is the tank size.

[sversimo]

@acoffeemaker

How can i measure the temp without a thermo PF, but with a very accurate termostat? (I just purchased one for 90$)

[acoffeemaker]

@sversimo A Thermo PF is the best, I made a DIY myself. It is not difficult if you got the tools. I make 2 holes on a single basket, 2mm hole for the thermocouple and a 12 mm hole for a copper pipe. The copper pipe connected to a gate valve. You need a valve to control to flow to simulate that is the real brewing. The important thing is the construction has to withstand 10bar pressure. This assembly to be used with a open bottom PF and a digital thermometer.

[sversimo]

Hey. I didn't now that, but you are correct. It's 57mm instead. But I still like it, it feels good in your hand and looks great. What do you think about the machine? I love it!

Med vennlig hilsen

Sverre.

[Palshoej]

@sversimo Hey Sverre,

Sorry for the late reply! I am very satisfied, however, I have found that the top line in the second digit on my PID is gone! But I get a new display without charge.

Hilsen Henrik

Ps.: Er du dansker?

[sversimo]

@Palshoej

Electrical components is always the weakest link...

Btw, I'm planing on milling a new tamper with 58 mm.

Nope, jeg er norsk! ;)

[Palshoej]

Hey. I see you use the Izzo Tamper! I think it looks great, but I am told it is 57mm instead of 58 mm is it right?

Best regards

Henrik

Also Izzo Vivi PID ovner!