I had anxiety attacks because I saw no reason to live if Hell was true. If an eternal hell was so real then it would mean most of my family and good chunk of my friends was on their way there, and it was my job to preach and pray for them to save them 24/7. The responsibility was overwhelming and the thought of this being true was terrifying. I was in a deep depression, and went through literal hell, inside of my mind.
One could always reject anything at anytime due to free will. The purpose of destiny is not to control anyone, but to give people the ability to do something that is out of their ability, but that God knows they would like to do, based upon His knowledge of that person. If someone truly loves God and wishes to serve, it is likely that they will obey God's plan, and they will know about it because God will guide them. Men will follow their passions.
Omniscience is like omnipotence, both are abilities of His, but the way in which those abilities are exercised may differ. Omnipotence means God can do anything, but He will use that quality in a limited sense, He won't do anything evil for example. Similarly, when it comes to omniscience, He can know whatever He wishes, but He can also not know if He wishes, for example, God tested Abraham to see if his faith was strong, and there is no need for a test if you already know.
Im not sure I understand your position here, but it seems youre saying the born again can never be lost. Im not sure what my own position is on this, which is why I have some questions. First, where do apostates fit into this? Second, the entire nation of Israel was chosen by God, but then later rejected based on its behavior. Certainly not everyone was rejected, as you point out, but this doesnt speak to the nation. Israel was rejected. How could this be if the chosen are never lost?
Shouldn't you first set out to prove that it DOES mean that? After all, you're the one that assumes it from the beginning. Have you even ever honestly considered that it DOESN'T mean what you say it means?
I have answered that very question somewhere under this video. If you like you can weed through the 1200 comments to find it. Otherwise I sent you a link to my forum and posted a reply there. The link is also on my channel. Look forward to your response.
There's nothing in either verse (rom 8:29 or the 1 Peter verse) that says anything about God foreseeing faith. It says "whom he foreknew", not "what he foresaw"
What God "knew" was people. "Whom He foreknew". Faith isn't even mentioned.
For God to know someone is the same as saying that God loves someone. Thus, we are predestined according to God's fore-knowledge.
I actually explained each passage and Romans 11 in the forum. You are welcome to respond there. I have already discussed that point on this thread. If you dont want to respond in the forum please find my comment concerning that very point in the comments under this video.
Jeremiah 1:5 `Before I form you in the belly, I have known you; and before you come forth from the womb I have separated you, a prophet to nations I have made you.'"
Moderate Cal: The Word ForKnowledge means to "Put In Order Before Time".. Besides, In John Chaper 6 Jesus Doesnt Say The One The Father ForKnows (as in only "predicted:.) Jesus Said THOSE THAT THE FATHER GIVE ME WILL COME .. Also NO ONE CAN COME IF THE FATHER DOESNT DRAW HIM".. How do you comprehend this with the forknowledge you describe???
I feel really sorry for SolaFideinChrist and all the Calvinists here who malign God's character just to fit Him into their evil doctrine. He will have to answer to God for falsely accusing Him of causing sin. So he best laugh as much as he wants to now because he won't be later on.
And Calvinists seem to love their doctrine more than God since they choose to malign His character and not care to truly know Him. They will have to answer to Him for that too.
Melodyofvision, I wonder, by your comment here, do you even know the God of scripture. The calvinistic teaching, of Gods absolute sovereignty in all things, is not something man made up. As a matter of fact, your theology, that man can, on his own freewill, "decide" to follow Christ, is a man made doctrine. You do not find that in scripture. So before you come at me, with the typical proof texts(2Peter 3:9, John 3:16, 1John 2:2), please look at them in their proper context . God Bless.
Apparently you dont. For the natural man does not accept the things of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 1Cor. 2:14.
the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so. -Romans 8:7.
But I will not press you on this any longer. You "know" what it says. Good luck to ya, and God bless.
Blair, without going through all the comments for the last week between you two, I would have to say with almost complete certainty, that I agree. Unless there is that one comment I overlooked, that doesnt sit right with me. But in all my conversations with Dwayne, I think I agree with him on just about everything, except his endtimes theology. But I am no expert on that as well so....what are you asking?
The only way in which any object can by any possibility have passed from God's vision of the possible into His foreknowledge of the actual, is by His purposing to effectuate it Himself, orintentionally and purposely to permit its effectuation by some other agent whom He expresly purposed to bring into existence. This is clear from this fact. An effect conceived in poss only rises into actuality by virtue of an effecient cause of causese.
When God was looking forward from the point of view of His original infinite prescience, there was but one cause, Himself. If any other cause or agent is to ever arise, it must be by god's agency. If effects are embraced in god's infinite prescience, which these other agents are to produce, still, in willing these other agents into existence, with infinite prescience, God did virtually will into existence or purose, all the effects of which they are to be efficients.
God is still responsible, b/c he orchestrated it, with his expected ends. Nothing is independent of him. He had put satan where he was and decreed him to only do what he did. Sorry. (Job 1:8-12)
Also, the bible does not teach Adam was free to sin or not, it teaches Adam was free to sin.
He was permited to sin, he was not permited NOT to sin.
How does a command imply that God desires them to do so.
When you read the scripture, The Law (ANY COMMAND) works wrath, brings concupiscience, gives sin its power, and leads the elect towards Christ.
Therefore you still fail, can you please demonstrate how it is illogical to command what you do not desire, yet the reason you gave the command produces what you desire? LOL
It is self evident. If a command is made by a person, that means that person wants you to do what is commanded. If not then why would the person command it ? Why would God command that which he does not want ? Is it because he is not rational, and not sovereign, not being able to command that which he desires ?
When dealing with an omniscient God, a command is given with an expected end, not a WISH. He commands in order to WORK what he has desired. You cannot disprove this. You are irrational.
Still not addressing the issue. I am not attempting an adhominem, but I will make the observation you have no clue what the discussion is about. You keep going off in left field as though you have a.d.d or something
Logical fallacy number 4 - You deny that God has any logical reasoning (e.g. EVERY human is a 'practacal predestinarian", we determine what we want the End to be, then work at doing so. YET, you say that God wants his end to be difffernt than the way it will turn out (many going to distruction) and thus he will be eternally undesirious of the end of his creation).
Logical fallacy number 5 - That God is not soverign for useing commands for what he designed(Working wrath).
If God would not have given the Law no one would have been damned.
Therefor In God's determinate council he decided to reprobate some and elect others. NOT BASED on their decision of him, but soley on the redeming work of the Triune God.
The father elects, the son Redeems, the Spirit brings the elect to Christ.
Yet you present him as wanting everyone to be saved, yet he cannot not do so even after satisfying his wrath upon his son, then remains wrathful at them for not making good choices, so his wrath wasn't really satisfied, then spends all eternity making them suffer although he truely loves them.
LOL. Hope YOUR not teaching the nature of God anytime soon. LOLOLOL.
I guess in eternity, you think God is going to being making people whom he truely loves, pay the penalty of their sins, for whom he crushed his son on behalf of, so he tells his son, I know I punished you for them, but They wouldnt listen enough so Im gonna punish them also!
You see, if God knows what people will or will not do in accordance with his decree, yet he commands them to do things anyways(Only working desire, wrath, and damnation) yet decides to command them anyway(so instead of preventing their damnation, he secures them in eternal reprobation.) there HAS to be a reason for him commanding them. It cannot be b/c he is willing that they do so, HE decreed that they will not!
Are you kidding me ? Dwayne just stop... That has got to be the worst rebuttal I have heard from you. It is almost blasphemous, you believe God is irrational.
Seeing as God is omniscient, and in your view of freewill knows who will resond and who will not, how can him commanding them to repent do anything for them except store up wrath for the day of Judgement.
If I know someone will not do something, and command them to do so, with judgment the result of not listening, the more I ask, the more I worsten the penalty.
We see that the law does one thing, it makes men guilty, the object of the law does two things, either makes the elect seek Christ, or stores up wrath for the reprobate.
God knew this is what It would do, and he created it for that purpose, because without the law, sin was dead.
2 Kings 22:23- Therefore the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of the profits.
Does God command men not to lie? DId he decree disaster against them? Of course he is not irrational, he designed the law to either lead the elect to Christ, or store up wrath for the reprobate.
God wants all men to repent because he commands all men to repent. He is not irrational commanding people to do things that he does not want them to do.
If that is the case why doesnt he command people to murder ? If he does not want people to do what he commands then he should tell all people to murder each other.
Not all men are elect, therefore all men CANNOT be saved.
BOTTOM LINE.
Secondly, There would be no sin without the Law, God knew men would sin, yet he created the Law anyways, therefore God created the means by which Sin recieved its power, therefore by the determinite council of God,, most people will be eternally damned.
And that cannot Change, becasue God has decided it thus.
God in your view is a contradictory figure. Commanding that which he does not want. You would think if the god you believe is really God he would have the ability to command what he desires.
Sorry the God I follow does not have a contradictory nature and he does what he desires.
The god you have made up in your mind commands that which he does not desire. He is eternally frustrated.
From my perspective all men cannot be saved, b/c God has not elected all men.
Not all mens names were wrote in the lambs book of Life.
The word of God is living, no questions asked,
By the statment "all men can be saved" proves that you do not thing that salvation rests upon the Grace of God, or the death of his son, but is ultimately completed by the working of mans will.
Please Learn Eph 2:8-10. We are HIS WORKMANSHIP. How could God even have good works prepared for us? LOL.
Oh so now you know who the elect are.. You should become a mormon, they believe they are gods also .
Since God wants all to repent, atonement follow. God is not wishing that any perish but all would repent. Thus Christ died for all men especially those who believe
For me it is an open door also, because we do not know who the elect are! LOL.
But im not going to say rhetorical statments like "There is a possibility that all be saved." Because that is NOT a possiblility. Many will walk the road to distruction.
Now if you want to say, "There is a possibility that everyone I talk to may be saved because I dont know who the elect are".
"Are you saying Jesus is not God because you just got done telling me God is a failure because he cannot command what he desires."
You fail.
God knew what the Law was for, working wrath, making sin known, giving sin its power. So God is not a failure, in what he designed the Law to do. LOL.
Of coruse your just presenting stawmen. Now a true failure would be, a God who really wants people to be saved, appeases his wrath upon his son, then still cannot bring them to Glory, b/c their will.
lol, I am done for the moment. You have provided enough contradictory statement about God for a lifetime,
You believe God commands all men to repent, yet that is not what he desires. You believe God does not have the ability to do so, and therefore he is not all powerful. So basically he is not sovereign. Thanks for this view of calvinism at its finest
I acknowlege what SCRIPTURE ALONE teaches us. And the Law does what it was designed to do, WORK WRATH. So they WONT DO WHAT THE LAW SAYS, it brings all manner of concupisince. LOL, It gives sin its power. LOL. IT MAKES A REASON FOR THEIR TO BE A SAVIOR.
There had to be SIN and DEATH, for God to love the elect this way.
The point is, God's commandments work what he desires. Sorry.
You have a logical fallacy.
And you cannot prove that a command implies that the commander wants the individual to do it, rather than producing an outcome due to the command given.
You told me that God does not want everyone to repent, even though he commands everyone to repent. So according to you God cannot command what he desires, therefore he is not sovereign.
Bad theology you have my friend. All in the name of Calvinism, you deny the clarity of scripture
"It must be tough to be God, not being able to command what he desires."
Let me show you the logical fallacy of your rediculous view of an omnipotent creator in this rhetorical statment...
"It must be hard to be God, from all eternity you truely desire everybody to be saved, then you send your son to apease the wrath that was brought about because you gave a Law, then your son's sacrifice was not enough, so your in eternity with the majority of your creation not where you desire."
Hmm seems as though you confuse the word cause. You are understanding the word unequivocally. However there are different types of cause. God is the primary cause not the instrumental cause of all things. Therefore men are truly free
"It proves you belvieve cannot command what he desires. therefore he is not sovereign according to your theology"
Inserts another foot in mouth.
So you say God would be soverign if he commanded people to do things, yet if they did not obey he really wanted them to do so, and he loves them so much, he is going to make them God to hell for disobedience.
Good job!
If God decreed a law in order to make sin know(without illogically infering sometihng from a command), we have a Soverign.
Where does Jesus say he does not want all to repent. Oh wait you believe he doesnt want all men to repent that is why he commands all people to repent
Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.
If there is one unlimited atonement scripture that makes atonement unlimited. Since you said there is unlimited scriptures you affirm there is an unlimited atonement .
We are in Bondage to sin. Which means we dont have the free will to come to God until God draws us. All Christians even Arminians believe that. Free will is our ability to respond to God after he draws. As I have said many many times.
Can you profide a context, where God is foreknowing the actions of a person, or their free choices?
Nope, But I can find you a context where God PREDESTINES those whome he foreknew. Not passivly "predestines" the free actions of men he knows they will do.
So it logically follows that what you are saying then Dwayne is that in Adams sin, God did not foreknow it and synergistically allow it but it necessarily follows that God authored evil, as He according to your own words is not foreknowing the actions of their free choices.
If God in causal determinism authors salvation without free will using the same rules for foreknowledge that you have laid out here on this thread, He also must have authored evil without free will.
Are you saying God is absent of knowledge because He wrote an illogical Bible? God is knowledge. There is a logical precondition in epistemology and systematic theology.
Why do you look at soveriegnty and freewill as polar opposites?
Adam wanted to do what he did, and God decreed that to take place.
You cann have it both ways, God is immutable, and he is not limited to what you think. Sin and Evil is synergistic, and regeneration is not.
Thats what I see in the bible, those that do not come to Jesus are condemned b/c they will not come, and those that do come are because God chose them.
Adam wanted to do what he did, and God decreed that to take place.
I agree. But this is not the truth of Calvinism. God caused Adam to do what he did. You defined foreknolwedge as the Bible NEVER gives an example of God permitting anything to happen passively. You are now saying God did. The only way Adam could have sinned synergistically was it was allowed.
"You defined foreknolwedge as the Bible NEVER gives an example of God permitting anything to happen passively"
Norwalk, have you EVER listened to anything I have said, I have continuously stated that God did not directly place the desire inside of Adam. But God ordained Adam to be in thus circumstances so that Adam would fall, and he would not have fallen if there were not material in the fall for him to derive Glory out of.
There had to be sin and death for God to show his Love(JESUS).
Grace is given to everyman. Is it not Gods grace that enlightens everyman ? Is it not Gods grace that draws everyman ? Is it not Gods grace that convicts everyman of sin ? Is it not Gods grace to die for everyman especially those who believe ? Is it not Gods grace that died for the apostate ?
I had anxiety attacks because I saw no reason to live if Hell was true. If an eternal hell was so real then it would mean most of my family and good chunk of my friends was on their way there, and it was my job to preach and pray for them to save them 24/7. The responsibility was overwhelming and the thought of this being true was terrifying. I was in a deep depression, and went through literal hell, inside of my mind.
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
Excellent Channel!! Nice Videos!!!
Please View and Subscribe our videos.
BoardingSchools 1 year ago
One could always reject anything at anytime due to free will. The purpose of destiny is not to control anyone, but to give people the ability to do something that is out of their ability, but that God knows they would like to do, based upon His knowledge of that person. If someone truly loves God and wishes to serve, it is likely that they will obey God's plan, and they will know about it because God will guide them. Men will follow their passions.
danmeast 1 year ago
Omniscience is like omnipotence, both are abilities of His, but the way in which those abilities are exercised may differ. Omnipotence means God can do anything, but He will use that quality in a limited sense, He won't do anything evil for example. Similarly, when it comes to omniscience, He can know whatever He wishes, but He can also not know if He wishes, for example, God tested Abraham to see if his faith was strong, and there is no need for a test if you already know.
danmeast 1 year ago
moderate Calvinism what your saying is unclear,
what you mean by foreknowledge?,
Do you mean if any body has true faith in Jesus that itself is a proof of his election/predestination.
your messeage is like hitting the air i mean it not clear what you want to say?
bjcharlesspurgeon 1 year ago
God bless you brother for this message, may your ministry flourish.
In the name of the Son Jesus Christ.
veeunbound 1 year ago
Im not sure I understand your position here, but it seems youre saying the born again can never be lost. Im not sure what my own position is on this, which is why I have some questions. First, where do apostates fit into this? Second, the entire nation of Israel was chosen by God, but then later rejected based on its behavior. Certainly not everyone was rejected, as you point out, but this doesnt speak to the nation. Israel was rejected. How could this be if the chosen are never lost?
rofyle 2 years ago
Foreknowledge, or God's knowledge, is not the same as God's prescience.
skalapunk 2 years ago
@skalapunk
looking for proof
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Shouldn't you first set out to prove that it DOES mean that? After all, you're the one that assumes it from the beginning. Have you even ever honestly considered that it DOESN'T mean what you say it means?
skalapunk 2 years ago
@skalapunk
I have answered that very question somewhere under this video. If you like you can weed through the 1200 comments to find it. Otherwise I sent you a link to my forum and posted a reply there. The link is also on my channel. Look forward to your response.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
You may have set out to offer an answer, but it is unsatisfactory :)
skalapunk 2 years ago
You say it is unsatisfactory, yet you have no response to it.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
There's nothing in either verse (rom 8:29 or the 1 Peter verse) that says anything about God foreseeing faith. It says "whom he foreknew", not "what he foresaw"
What God "knew" was people. "Whom He foreknew". Faith isn't even mentioned.
For God to know someone is the same as saying that God loves someone. Thus, we are predestined according to God's fore-knowledge.
skalapunk 2 years ago
I actually explained each passage and Romans 11 in the forum. You are welcome to respond there. I have already discussed that point on this thread. If you dont want to respond in the forum please find my comment concerning that very point in the comments under this video.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the most interesting is the way Calvinists and Witches embrace the same Darkness..and call it truth!
KarensFaith and Her Daughter and Acircleoflight and Saunders,, its witchcraft and professing Christianity emerging into on religion of darkness...
From;
The Exposing Dangers of Utube Witchcraft
openairpreacher 2 years ago
Jeremiah 1:5 `Before I form you in the belly, I have known you; and before you come forth from the womb I have separated you, a prophet to nations I have made you.'"
PrinceWalter 2 years ago
Moderate Cal: The Word ForKnowledge means to "Put In Order Before Time".. Besides, In John Chaper 6 Jesus Doesnt Say The One The Father ForKnows (as in only "predicted:.) Jesus Said THOSE THAT THE FATHER GIVE ME WILL COME .. Also NO ONE CAN COME IF THE FATHER DOESNT DRAW HIM".. How do you comprehend this with the forknowledge you describe???
Love, John
johnpolanco18 2 years ago
The Five Points of Calvinism
1)Total Depravity
2)Unconditional Election
3)Limited Atonement
4)Irresistible Grace
5)Perseverance of the Saints
Amen
TheCrimsonSkull 2 years ago
ModerateCalvinist - Good video!
I feel really sorry for SolaFideinChrist and all the Calvinists here who malign God's character just to fit Him into their evil doctrine. He will have to answer to God for falsely accusing Him of causing sin. So he best laugh as much as he wants to now because he won't be later on.
And Calvinists seem to love their doctrine more than God since they choose to malign His character and not care to truly know Him. They will have to answer to Him for that too.
MelodyOfVision 2 years ago
Melodyofvision, I wonder, by your comment here, do you even know the God of scripture. The calvinistic teaching, of Gods absolute sovereignty in all things, is not something man made up. As a matter of fact, your theology, that man can, on his own freewill, "decide" to follow Christ, is a man made doctrine. You do not find that in scripture. So before you come at me, with the typical proof texts(2Peter 3:9, John 3:16, 1John 2:2), please look at them in their proper context . God Bless.
Haukman66 2 years ago
I already know what the Bible says. You don't need to twist for me.
MelodyOfVision 2 years ago
Apparently you dont. For the natural man does not accept the things of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 1Cor. 2:14.
the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so. -Romans 8:7.
But I will not press you on this any longer. You "know" what it says. Good luck to ya, and God bless.
Haukman66 2 years ago
Thank you and God bless you too! :o)
MelodyOfVision 2 years ago
Hauck, are you saying you agree with Dwaynes assertions ?
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Blair, without going through all the comments for the last week between you two, I would have to say with almost complete certainty, that I agree. Unless there is that one comment I overlooked, that doesnt sit right with me. But in all my conversations with Dwayne, I think I agree with him on just about everything, except his endtimes theology. But I am no expert on that as well so....what are you asking?
Haukman66 2 years ago
Happy new year.
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
Happy New Year Steve. :)
Haukman66 2 years ago
Happy new year Norwalk
TULIPGospel 2 years ago
Happy New Year Jeff! ; )
Haukman66 2 years ago
@Haukman66 Yes happy new year I dont think I have told you ,sorry.
TULIPGospel 2 years ago
Happy New Year to you also TULIP.
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
The only way in which any object can by any possibility have passed from God's vision of the possible into His foreknowledge of the actual, is by His purposing to effectuate it Himself, orintentionally and purposely to permit its effectuation by some other agent whom He expresly purposed to bring into existence. This is clear from this fact. An effect conceived in poss only rises into actuality by virtue of an effecient cause of causese.
CONT>
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
When God was looking forward from the point of view of His original infinite prescience, there was but one cause, Himself. If any other cause or agent is to ever arise, it must be by god's agency. If effects are embraced in god's infinite prescience, which these other agents are to produce, still, in willing these other agents into existence, with infinite prescience, God did virtually will into existence or purose, all the effects of which they are to be efficients.
R.L. Dabney
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Still waiting for a verse that teaches that God decreed freewill.
LOL.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
It is self evident, unless you want to say Adam did not sin of his own volition.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"you unfortunately denying free will must deny that God is sovereign"
FAIL.
Do you have any scripture that teach God decreed a free will?
SO your God is going to be willing that the reprobate not perish and drawing them and eternally dissappointed?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Anytime you see punishment and reward for ones action, that is a scripture on freewill.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Fail.
You still provide no text that teaches God decreed free will.
I can provide you scriptures that teach that God predestined events and peoples salvation.
Yet you have no scripture saying God did this in accordance with their "freewill".
God Bless
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Do I need to repeat myself ?
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
You still fail, nothing is free from God's determinism.
If I were to watch a baby being raped in the same room as the rapist and allowed him to do it, would I be in any way responsible?
Of course, but God does what he pleases b/c he has an expected end.
Also, Seeing as God is immutable, do you beleive God is going to be loving, drawing, and eternally willing that people be rescued from hell?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
So God is a rapist.... You better watch out you are treading on dangerous ground saying God is responsible for rape.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
So are you saying God could not prevent rape?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
This conversation is over I will not give you more ground to call God a sinner and a rapist
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Notice,
You fail, so you deny fact.
ARE YOU SAYING,
God could not prevent rape?
Actually his bible says in Amos 3:6 "Shall evil befall a city and Jehovah hath not done it?"
How many times with you logically fail?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Moderate calvinist, one day you will see that you are a humanist.
You believe God's desire was that Adam did not sin.
We believe that God's desire from all creation is that his Son would come and DIE for the SINS of HIS people.
Sorry, thats what the bible teaches.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Conversations are always over, when Blair fails.
Logically, YES.
Scripturally, YES.
Statistically, YES.
I pray that you will see that God determined whatsoever comes to pass, and the only reason any will be saved is BY GRACE.
GBU.
Oh and P.S!
God could prevent rape, and he does not, b/c it is the purpose of his will, and you cannot deny it.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
God cannot be accountable for what He decrees.
1689Baptist 2 years ago
Who can he be accountable to? LOL
Oh wait I know, hes accountable to the natural reason of Blair and GBFNorwalk!
LOLOLOL.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
"it is self evident,"
Are you saying that Adam's sin was not aaccording to the council of God's will?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Adam was free to sin or not. It was his choice. God knew what he would do, but that is neither here nor there...
Thus Satan was the instrumental cause of his sin, also Adam. Thus they were free since their actions were self caused
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Fail,
God is still responsible, b/c he orchestrated it, with his expected ends. Nothing is independent of him. He had put satan where he was and decreed him to only do what he did. Sorry. (Job 1:8-12)
Also, the bible does not teach Adam was free to sin or not, it teaches Adam was free to sin.
He was permited to sin, he was not permited NOT to sin.
And that is plain.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Oh so God is not perfect, he is a sinner. Guess what, you are still in your sin because according to you Jesus was not a perfect sacrifice
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Can you please tell me, How God had a law governing him where he fell into sin?
FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN IS DEAD, and the LAW GIVES SIN ITS POWER.
Seeing as God is the soveriegn it is impossible for him to sin.
LOGICAL FALLACY NUMBER 239239487324 from Blair.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
"God is responsible"
Well since Adam was not responsible we did not inherit the sin nature. None of us are going to hell because we are not responsible for sin...
You are the heritic of the year... Century
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
No one said that Adam was not responsible.
This is where you deny compatabilism.
SORRY.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
LOL compatibolism is not determinism
You said God was responsible.. Thereby calling God a sinner.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
No compatibolism would teach that Mans will is compatible with God's soverign plain, NOT that God does the best he can with free creatures.
Sorry.
So are you saying God could not prevent rape?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
LOL
God would be the cause,
The human would be the intrument by which this instance occured.
Seeing as God is not in time, he cannot be a "rapist" by the definition.
YOU fail again, sorry.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
IF I COMMAND YOU TO DO SOMETHING, I KNOW YOU WILL NOT DO, THERE HAS TO BE A REASON FOR ME TO COMMAND YOU TO DO SOMETHING.
God IS NOT irrational. YOU ARE irrational, b/c you make God into a cosmic beggar.
WE ACKNOWLEGE what the bible alone teaches.
YOU on the other hand make a command infer that God wants everyone to do what it says...IRRATIONALLY.
THANKFULLY the Law does what the Bible says its supposed to.
"Of him, through him, and by him are all things."
LOL STRAWMENNNNN
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
It is not a matter of knowing they will not do it. The argument is based on him wanting them to do it. Him knowing is different then him wanting.
Thus your argument is void, you believe God is irrational
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
How does a command imply that God desires them to do so.
When you read the scripture, The Law (ANY COMMAND) works wrath, brings concupiscience, gives sin its power, and leads the elect towards Christ.
Therefore you still fail, can you please demonstrate how it is illogical to command what you do not desire, yet the reason you gave the command produces what you desire? LOL
FAILLLLL and Strawmen are blazing.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
It is self evident. If a command is made by a person, that means that person wants you to do what is commanded. If not then why would the person command it ? Why would God command that which he does not want ? Is it because he is not rational, and not sovereign, not being able to command that which he desires ?
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
When dealing with an omniscient God, a command is given with an expected end, not a WISH. He commands in order to WORK what he has desired. You cannot disprove this. You are irrational.
1) The Law gives sin its power (1 Cor 15:57)
2) God gave the Law
3) Therefore God decreed the means by which sin recieved its power.
We are dealing with an omniscient God, he commands in order to work wrath. The law does NOT imply that he desires men do so.
Sorry thats just a fail.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Still not addressing the issue. I am not attempting an adhominem, but I will make the observation you have no clue what the discussion is about. You keep going off in left field as though you have a.d.d or something
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Just keep ignoring fact Blair.
Please.
Your full of illogical conclusions.
Logical fallacy number 1 - That a command implies that God desires everyone to do so.
Logical fallacy number 2 - That you believe that God does not desire the end and eternal state of his creation (Multitudes of unrepentant individuals)
Logical fallacy number 3 - That you say the Law(Commands) imply what God desires every man to do, not what he recieves from the expected End.
CONT>
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
<CONT
Logical fallacy number 4 - You deny that God has any logical reasoning (e.g. EVERY human is a 'practacal predestinarian", we determine what we want the End to be, then work at doing so. YET, you say that God wants his end to be difffernt than the way it will turn out (many going to distruction) and thus he will be eternally undesirious of the end of his creation).
Logical fallacy number 5 - That God is not soverign for useing commands for what he designed(Working wrath).
God bless!
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Show me where a command does not imply the desire for a person to follow the command.
Why command ?
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
To do what his desired ends are.
Bottom line.
"It must be tough to be God, not being able to command what he desires."
Blair,
That has to be the most illogical rhetorical statment I have ever heard. It shows that you do not understand the omnisience of God.
NOW, if God commands in order to fulfil his desired ends(working wrath for judgement day) then he is soverign.
"Why command?"
To make sin know, to give sin its power, to work wrath, so their is a reason to save your elect.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
To make sin known all's one has to do is say murder is sin.
To command one not to sin is completely different then making it known
So again why did God command us to do something he does not want us to do?
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"It is self evident. If a command is made by a person, that means a person wants you to do what is commanded."
FAIL. Are you an evidentialist or a studier of the scriptures? You do not use Logic, you use your own fallible reasoning.
Sorry.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Non Sequitur.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Can you show me scripture where God decreed free will? LOL.
B/c I got plenty of scripture where God predestinates people, BEFORE they are born.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
If God would not have given the Law no one would have been damned.
Therefor In God's determinate council he decided to reprobate some and elect others. NOT BASED on their decision of him, but soley on the redeming work of the Triune God.
The father elects, the son Redeems, the Spirit brings the elect to Christ.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
So you believe God is a frustrated failure. I hope you are not planning to teach the nature of God anytime soon
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
LOL,
Yet you present him as wanting everyone to be saved, yet he cannot not do so even after satisfying his wrath upon his son, then remains wrathful at them for not making good choices, so his wrath wasn't really satisfied, then spends all eternity making them suffer although he truely loves them.
LOL. Hope YOUR not teaching the nature of God anytime soon. LOLOLOL.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Sure, because I believe in free will. That is where your argument fails. I believe God decreed free will.
But you believe God is a failure not being able to command what he desires.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
No,
I believe God decreed the law to do what it does, not to make men every man do what it says.
STAWMANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
I guess in eternity, you think God is going to being making people whom he truely loves, pay the penalty of their sins, for whom he crushed his son on behalf of, so he tells his son, I know I punished you for them, but They wouldnt listen enough so Im gonna punish them also!
Talk about illogical.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Sorry, you believe God cannot command what he desires. No matter how you look at it, it is still illogical
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
God is omniscient, you are not.
You see, if God knows what people will or will not do in accordance with his decree, yet he commands them to do things anyways(Only working desire, wrath, and damnation) yet decides to command them anyway(so instead of preventing their damnation, he secures them in eternal reprobation.) there HAS to be a reason for him commanding them. It cannot be b/c he is willing that they do so, HE decreed that they will not!
FAILLLLLL
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Please dont put up 2 peter 3:9.
Just follow the pronouns. There is 2 groups of people.
You will see the all he wills to come to repentance, is the "usward", and that is the Beloved(v.8).
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
2 Peter 3:9 this is why the scripture says he commands all to repent.
If he commands all to repent, that means he wants all to repent Acts 17:30
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
If he commands all to repent that means he wills all to repent.
Can you please tell me how a command implies that?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Are you kidding me ? Dwayne just stop... That has got to be the worst rebuttal I have heard from you. It is almost blasphemous, you believe God is irrational.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
There is nothing irrational about it.
Seeing as God is omniscient, and in your view of freewill knows who will resond and who will not, how can him commanding them to repent do anything for them except store up wrath for the day of Judgement.
If I know someone will not do something, and command them to do so, with judgment the result of not listening, the more I ask, the more I worsten the penalty.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
God does not command them to do something he does not want them to do.
It's like saying God tells people not to murder because he really wants them to murder.
Irrational. It is one thing to know they wont repent. It is another thing to want them to repent. You are confusing the two.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Blair,
The Law (Do not murder), works wrath.
Romans 4:15.
Therefore any command does one thing, it works wrath.
The law also gives sin it's power
1 Corinthians 15:57.
We see that the law does one thing, it makes men guilty, the object of the law does two things, either makes the elect seek Christ, or stores up wrath for the reprobate.
God knew this is what It would do, and he created it for that purpose, because without the law, sin was dead.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Are you not getting the point or try throw the conversation ? Who cares about the law ?
The point is God wants you to do what he commands. He does not command you to do something he does not want you to do. He is not irrational
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
2 Kings 22:23- Therefore the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouths of the profits.
Does God command men not to lie? DId he decree disaster against them? Of course he is not irrational, he designed the law to either lead the elect to Christ, or store up wrath for the reprobate.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
So you are trying to throw the argument .
Well I guess I made my point. God wants all men to repent plain and simple. Therefore your argument on atonement is refuted
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
So God really didnt want Jesus to be slain....
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
God wants all men to repent because he commands all men to repent. He is not irrational commanding people to do things that he does not want them to do.
If that is the case why doesnt he command people to murder ? If he does not want people to do what he commands then he should tell all people to murder each other.
Stop embarrassing yourself
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
How can you say God is irrational for commanding men to do things that he has not willed them to do?
Who are you to reply against the Potter?
Problem number one with arminians, they thing God is subject to their Laws. What a shame.
God is rational in all he does, not because you think so, but because he is God.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
LOL Potter ?
Sorry God created the 3 natural laws of logic. God is not contradictory in fact he tells us to avoid contradictions.
You claim God contradictory, commanding that which he does not want.
Sounds like you believe God is all mixed up. He cannot command what he wants, he commands what he does not want. Wow some God you follow
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.
Talk about illgical.
Not all men are elect, therefore all men CANNOT be saved.
BOTTOM LINE.
Secondly, There would be no sin without the Law, God knew men would sin, yet he created the Law anyways, therefore God created the means by which Sin recieved its power, therefore by the determinite council of God,, most people will be eternally damned.
And that cannot Change, becasue God has decided it thus.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
God in your view is a contradictory figure. Commanding that which he does not want. You would think if the god you believe is really God he would have the ability to command what he desires.
Sorry the God I follow does not have a contradictory nature and he does what he desires.
The god you have made up in your mind commands that which he does not desire. He is eternally frustrated.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
He commands to cast Judgment, which is what the reprobate will suffer because of.
Of course, you talk logic, instead of scripture, b/c you dummy God down to a man.
The Law works wrath, therefore God uses the Law to work wrath. Sorry, scripturally you fail.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Lol, I presented the scripture but you claim it is a contradiction.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Comment removed
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
God command all to repent. Are you forgetting the acts passage already.
I guess God cant command what he really desire. Must be frustrating
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Will you please answer,
If all are not elect, how is their a possibility that all be saved?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Who's perspective are you talking about ? From my perspective all men can be saved. The word of God is living.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
From my perspective all men cannot be saved, b/c God has not elected all men.
Not all mens names were wrote in the lambs book of Life.
The word of God is living, no questions asked,
By the statment "all men can be saved" proves that you do not thing that salvation rests upon the Grace of God, or the death of his son, but is ultimately completed by the working of mans will.
Please Learn Eph 2:8-10. We are HIS WORKMANSHIP. How could God even have good works prepared for us? LOL.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Oh so now you know who the elect are.. You should become a mormon, they believe they are gods also .
Since God wants all to repent, atonement follow. God is not wishing that any perish but all would repent. Thus Christ died for all men especially those who believe
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"Oh so now you know who the elect are."
As I stated, WE DO NOT KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE, therefore we evangelize.
What are you smoking blair?
But I KNOW that all cannot be saved, b/c all are not elect.
Man, "God is not wishing that any perish but all would repent".
ANY OF WHOM, it muts be nice to ignore context.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
According to God he knows who will be saved. For me it is an open door ( whosoever)
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
For me it is an open door also, because we do not know who the elect are! LOL.
But im not going to say rhetorical statments like "There is a possibility that all be saved." Because that is NOT a possiblility. Many will walk the road to distruction.
Now if you want to say, "There is a possibility that everyone I talk to may be saved because I dont know who the elect are".
That is a logical statment.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
With man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
That scripture is irrelevant, with God, all could have been restricted from suffering damnation.
He could have decided not to give a law.
Thanks for that scripture though, with man, salvation is impossible, but the only way it is possible is with God.
That scripture nicely refutes free will. Kind of like "the flesh profits NOTHING, the spirit GIVES lift." Not tries to give and fails.
Once again, Jesus is a savior, not a failure.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
"Jesus is a savior, not a failure"
Are you saying Jesus is not God because you just got done telling me God is a failure because he cannot command what he desires
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"Are you saying Jesus is not God because you just got done telling me God is a failure because he cannot command what he desires."
You fail.
God knew what the Law was for, working wrath, making sin known, giving sin its power. So God is not a failure, in what he designed the Law to do. LOL.
Of coruse your just presenting stawmen. Now a true failure would be, a God who really wants people to be saved, appeases his wrath upon his son, then still cannot bring them to Glory, b/c their will.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
lol, I am done for the moment. You have provided enough contradictory statement about God for a lifetime,
You believe God commands all men to repent, yet that is not what he desires. You believe God does not have the ability to do so, and therefore he is not all powerful. So basically he is not sovereign. Thanks for this view of calvinism at its finest
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Lol,
STRAWMANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
"You believe God does not have the ability to do so."
STAWMANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I acknowlege what SCRIPTURE ALONE teaches us. And the Law does what it was designed to do, WORK WRATH. So they WONT DO WHAT THE LAW SAYS, it brings all manner of concupisince. LOL, It gives sin its power. LOL. IT MAKES A REASON FOR THEIR TO BE A SAVIOR.
There had to be SIN and DEATH, for God to love the elect this way.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Again, please stop trying to throw off your error. The point is, you believe that God cannot command what he desires.
What the law does is not even an issue. It is just a smoke screen from you.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
The point is, God's commandments work what he desires. Sorry.
You have a logical fallacy.
And you cannot prove that a command implies that the commander wants the individual to do it, rather than producing an outcome due to the command given.
Sorry, you fail.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
It proves you believe cannot command what he desires. Therefore he is not sovereign according to your theology
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"Therefore he is not sovereign according to your theology".
Blair now inserts foot into mouth.
Hello, Please demonstrate how God is not soveriegn in giving laws that make sin known.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
You told me that God does not want everyone to repent, even though he commands everyone to repent. So according to you God cannot command what he desires, therefore he is not sovereign.
Bad theology you have my friend. All in the name of Calvinism, you deny the clarity of scripture
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"He cannot command what he desires, therefore he is not soverign."
Lamentations 3:37-38
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
It must be tough to be God, not being able to command what he desires.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"It must be tough to be God, not being able to command what he desires."
Let me show you the logical fallacy of your rediculous view of an omnipotent creator in this rhetorical statment...
"It must be hard to be God, from all eternity you truely desire everybody to be saved, then you send your son to apease the wrath that was brought about because you gave a Law, then your son's sacrifice was not enough, so your in eternity with the majority of your creation not where you desire."
GBU!
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Again I hold to free will, you unfortunately denying free will must deny that God is sovereign
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
In order for their to be true freedom their must be an independent force.
Seeing as nothing is independent of God, mans freedom is not free from God's determinism.
You fail. :(
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Hmm seems as though you confuse the word cause. You are understanding the word unequivocally. However there are different types of cause. God is the primary cause not the instrumental cause of all things. Therefore men are truly free
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"It proves you belvieve cannot command what he desires. therefore he is not sovereign according to your theology"
Inserts another foot in mouth.
So you say God would be soverign if he commanded people to do things, yet if they did not obey he really wanted them to do so, and he loves them so much, he is going to make them God to hell for disobedience.
Good job!
If God decreed a law in order to make sin know(without illogically infering sometihng from a command), we have a Soverign.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Stop acting like you dont understand the argument.. If you are going to waste my time stop posting.
You believe God did not command what he desired, therefore according to you God is not sovereign
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
"Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come."
"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
"11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. "
Jesus refutes you, sorry, call him irrational.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Hmmm
Where does Jesus say he does not want all to repent. Oh wait you believe he doesnt want all men to repent that is why he commands all people to repent
Dont see your point
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.
Thats what Calvinism teaches.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
If there is one unlimited atonement scripture that makes atonement unlimited. Since you said there is unlimited scriptures you affirm there is an unlimited atonement .
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
I put unlimited in parentheses. That was because I was being sarcastic.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
So there is not more scriptures on limited atonement
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
There is no potential for all to be saved because God did not elect all.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
So what is the potential for this apostate seeing as Christ bought him
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
There is no potential for him, b/c Peter was talking sarcastically.
He is not elect.
Once again Blair, is their potential for the nonelect to be saved?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
? What... Prove it. ! I will be waiting for exegesis to prove your misunderstanding
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Still waiting for proof
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
I dont understand the point of "hypotheticals".
Hypothetically God could cause everyone to walk with their ears, profess Jesus as Lord, and Be saved, but thats not what the bible reveals
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
This is a historical doctrine.. You should study it before further embarassing your understanding
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
Notice you once again mention my understanding.
But you fail.
All men do not have the potential to be saved because all are not elect.
BOTTOM LINE.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
So you deny what Calvin said, yet you say you believe as he did. Hmmm
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
I disagree with calvin on things....I suggest you study the institutes and commentary. He taught a limited atonement.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
He believes in limited atonement the way I do ....
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
No, all men do not have potential to be saved. All are not elect.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
"Hence Christ can die for sinners and all sinners not be saved. "
I agree with that, b/c he died for the elect sinners, not all sinners.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
So are you saying the apostate from 2 peter 2 is an elect sinner ? Whom the Soveign Lord bought
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
SO explain to me what you mean by "free will" if you do not believe in libertarian free will.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
We are in Bondage to sin. Which means we dont have the free will to come to God until God draws us. All Christians even Arminians believe that. Free will is our ability to respond to God after he draws. As I have said many many times.
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago
So Grace tries to save?
Is that in the scriptures?
Also, what about the fact that all the father Gave Jesus will come to him? And the fact that all the father draws are raised up?
Are you saying God draws everyone but it is not salvific, only your freewill secures your salvation?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
SolaFideinChrist You said:
Can you profide a context, where God is foreknowing the actions of a person, or their free choices?
Nope, But I can find you a context where God PREDESTINES those whome he foreknew. Not passivly "predestines" the free actions of men he knows they will do.
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
So it logically follows that what you are saying then Dwayne is that in Adams sin, God did not foreknow it and synergistically allow it but it necessarily follows that God authored evil, as He according to your own words is not foreknowing the actions of their free choices.
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
Will you please enlighten me on how a free act, is free from God's determinism?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
So God did author evil in Calvinism?
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
No.
God is the cause.
Adam is the author.
Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting their is something in God's creation that he could not have prevented?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Norwalk.
Will you ever read...
Lamentations 3:37-38...
37Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? 38Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Notice you say "So it logically follows"
But you do not resond to the fact that your condemned by sola scriptura.
You cannot find at text where God is "foreknowing" someones actions.
LOL the word used for "Foreordain" in 1 Peter 1:20, is the same greek word as foreknow in Romans 8:28.
Of course you know the bible teaches it, and you hate it, so you appeal to your own logic instead of submitting to God's word.
Until you can provide scriptral proof you fail.
God Bless!
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
So in salvation God is the cause and man is the author? You cannot have it both ways. God is immutible.
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
I am comdemned? There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Are you asserting something here?
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
If God in causal determinism authors salvation without free will using the same rules for foreknowledge that you have laid out here on this thread, He also must have authored evil without free will.
Quit contradictiong yourself.
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
Are you saying God is absent of knowledge because He wrote an illogical Bible? God is knowledge. There is a logical precondition in epistemology and systematic theology.
Love Steve
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
Norwalk,
Why do you look at soveriegnty and freewill as polar opposites?
Adam wanted to do what he did, and God decreed that to take place.
You cann have it both ways, God is immutable, and he is not limited to what you think. Sin and Evil is synergistic, and regeneration is not.
Thats what I see in the bible, those that do not come to Jesus are condemned b/c they will not come, and those that do come are because God chose them.
Just keep ignoring scripture.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
Adam wanted to do what he did, and God decreed that to take place.
I agree. But this is not the truth of Calvinism. God caused Adam to do what he did. You defined foreknolwedge as the Bible NEVER gives an example of God permitting anything to happen passively. You are now saying God did. The only way Adam could have sinned synergistically was it was allowed.
Genesis 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
GBFNorwalk 2 years ago
"You defined foreknolwedge as the Bible NEVER gives an example of God permitting anything to happen passively"
Norwalk, have you EVER listened to anything I have said, I have continuously stated that God did not directly place the desire inside of Adam. But God ordained Adam to be in thus circumstances so that Adam would fall, and he would not have fallen if there were not material in the fall for him to derive Glory out of.
There had to be sin and death for God to show his Love(JESUS).
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
He would have to pay to eat the fruit of the knowlege of Good and Evil.
That has nothing to do with some kind of will that is free from God's determinism.
LOL, the term free is the Hebrew word "chinnam" which has to do with the cost of something, NOT free will.
Nice try though.
Eph. 1:11
God Bless.
SolaFideinChrist 2 years ago
@SolaFideinChrist
Grace is given to everyman. Is it not Gods grace that enlightens everyman ? Is it not Gods grace that draws everyman ? Is it not Gods grace that convicts everyman of sin ? Is it not Gods grace to die for everyman especially those who believe ? Is it not Gods grace that died for the apostate ?
cont>
MODERATECALVINISM 2 years ago