Voddie Baucham on the Shack

[janagyjr1978]

audio is bad.

[theocratickingdom30]

You are missing the point. God is holy, otherly. We are not to make any graven images of Him because there is nothing like him. That is bringing the holy God down to the level of a creature. The 2nd person of the Trinity became a middle eastern man. That is all we know. Painting Him as white probably is idolatry. I don't make it a big issue. I just point out scripture never says and His skin color isn't important. It is inherent in man to make an idol out of everything. That's what we do.

[87elway]

the shack was not meant to be theologically sound. It was created as fiction, written as fiction and IF read...read as fiction. But I thought it was worth the read.

[ultrapilot12]

@87elway So if I write a fictional account with you as the main character, only you're a pedophile in my book, is that okay? It's only fiction? No it's not okay, it would be a distortion of your character, just as this book distorts the character of God. It is heresy.

[87elway]

@ultrapilot12 Good point, I can see it from your point of view as well. What I received from this book, was to evaluate what my thoughts of God were, not to make God into the characters in this book. I am more worried about what many evangelical churches turn God into. I worry more about preachers turning Jesus, or the Spirit into somebody dfferent from the Father. They are one and nothing exists in them that is not in each other. Heretical preachers concern me, not a fictional book.

[ultrapilot12]

@87elway All heresy concerns me. What do you mean, "turning Jesus or the Spirit into somebody different from the Father? They are three in one. They are different persons in one essence.

[87elway]

@ultrapilot12 What I mean is acting as if there are traits that are separate from each other. Christ is as holy, righteous, just, and vengeful as the Father, the Father is as loving, kind and merciful as Christ. I understand they are three persons, but there is nothing in one that does not exist in each other. They are one.

[1outofone]

does voddie also get upset when watching pro wrestling also?

[snoochies3]

I guess my problem with the Body focusing on this book is this. I read it. took in the lessons on love, judging, grace. I take in what is real, and haven't even thought much about the rest. in fact, i can't say i've really thought much about the book since i read it other than reminding myself to love and not judge. i never thought once that it could actually explain to me exactly who God is. but i believe the Body is making the mistake, whether they agree or not, on focusing way too much on it.

[snoochies3]

He's not an old white guy with a big white beard either. but nobody would have a problem with Him being depicted as such. That's all i'm saying. He is much higher and we do not know Him as much as we like to think. I thank you for teaching me though. May God have all praise.

[snoochies3]

walksbyf8h please excuse me, but i believe you're being judgmental by saying someone asking an honest question desiring to know God on deeper levels is having a low view of God. please learn to be gracious with the Body of Christ. I had no idea about Sarayu. that is a very valid point. I still don't get the part about God being a black woman bothering people though. God spoke through a donkey, so why not a black woman? The lesson in that as well was that God is much higher than our ideas as well

[theocratickingdom30]

@snoochies3: The first commandment ought to answer you question. God speaking through a donkey is different from God being portrayed as a black woman. It is blasphemy and breaking the first 2 commandments.

[87elway]

@theocratickingdom30 What about Jesus being portrayed as a well groomed white man with blue eyes?

[theocratickingdom30]

@87elway: He wasn't white. We don't know what He looked like. Holy Writ has never told us what He looked like. All we know is He was middle eastern and probably dark skin due to being in the sun much of the day every day. What God decides to appear as is His business. You, as a creature, have no business questioning it.

[87elway]

@theocratickingdom30 I need to first set the tone. I am in not being sarcastic or mean, simply trying to ask questions. Now, I wasn't questioning what he looked like, it was a question to you: I was merely asking if you would you call a picture of him on a cross as a white man blasphemy as well. And do you attack those who put that picture in that house as strong as you do here?

[theocratickingdom30]

@87elway: Sorry, if I came across as rude. Not my intention. I don't think we have any right to draw Jesus when Holy Writ never tells us what He looked like. I'm not sure I'd call it blasphemy, but when one draws Christ as a white man with blues eyes understand that is THEIR (emphasis) view of Christ. It isn't the truth. They are going beyond what has been revealed. We know Scripture says in Isaiah 53 he was an average looking guy. Nothing special. Was born in a town of about 50 people.

[87elway]

@theocratickingdom30 So then why is God in a fictional book as a black woman blasphemy, and God as a white man not? Isaiah 53 I believe paints a better picture as him being at least not-handsome, probably less than average looking or even ugly by our standards. And still churches insist on putting up "Sexy Jesus" lol. Anyhow good discussion, have a nice week, God Bless!

[ultrapilot12]

@87elway I agee about what you said about Isaiah. The problem with portraying Him as any woman is the Scripture uses masculine terms to describe Him. That's not the big problem with the book. The universalism in the book is a huge problem. All roads so not lead to Him. Also, the idea that there is no heirarchy in the Trinity ,and the Father also displaying the wounds of the cross are big problems. It doesn't matter that it is fiction.

[CrystalRiverofLife]

@snoochies3 God never spoke through a donkey, that is poor reading of the scriptures.

Nu 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

There was no thus saith the Lord from the ass . . . God enabled an ass to speak its own mind.

[snoochies3]

@CrystalRiverofLife i will agree with you on the one about the donkey. thank you for having me look at that more correctly. but i still don't believe this makes the shack wrong in that it is a dream where God showed up as a person. And Abraham had a dream where He showed up as a furnace.

[snoochies3]

I still don't see why people wanna throw the baby out with the bath water.

[snoochies3]

I love most of Voddie's messages & I'm all about brokenness & searching Scriptures. I've a sincere heart asking this. I've yet to find anyone who's bashed the shack be able to bring up why Biblically it's off. most people i hear saying it's wrong have very mocking tones. just cuz someone's off theologically doesn't mean they don't have good & sincere hearts. why're we so quick to mock other parts of the body? true brokeness would have real love & hit their knees instead of mocking. love you all.

[walksbyf8h]

@snoochies3 1) “Sarayu” is from the Hindu scriptures and represents a mythical river in India on the shores of which the Hindu god Rama was born. 2) A god that is not specifically described in the Bible is ANOTHER god - period. 3) G-d is Spirit, not a black woman. G-d the Father & H.S. are MALE. BTW, the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob is NOT Allah. You have a low view of His Holiness, Sanctity, & Word. G-D is jealous of His Name & attributes - He's not to be molded into another image - EVER.

[rollingthunder2007]

This is the audience recording of a message which is -in full quality- on youtube under the title "brokenness". This section here is in segment "1 of 6" at around minute 8:00.

One of Voddie's best and most convicting messages I've ever heard.

[SeekJesus2009]

"The Shack" is written by William P. Young. The story is heretical and blasphemous of our Lord God, i.e. the Trinity!

By the way, watch the video "Brokenness" by Voddie Baucham, the message is excellent!

[ErikkFriberg]

What is "The Shack"? I think I have heard of it but I don't remember much about it.

[jmdenali]

It is the Grace of God that you are unfamiliar with it...!