Dr. I just listen to your lecture on Subox. and you are totally right. Thank you for taking your time out of your busy schedule to talk to all of us. I think the people that are angry at Suboxone is because they are using something else and that is getting them high, whereas Suboxone will not get you high. Well...it's never given me a "high" felling, never. Again I thank you for all your hard & long work educating all of us. Your are right on. I bet your a wonderful Dr. too ; )
i've been watching these videos all morning and they are very intresting. I am a vicodin and soma abuser trying to become free of these drugs for good but without the painful withdraws. I do have a couple of suboxones to help assist me in quitting. Do you request anything or can you say anything just to assist or encourage me to stay opiate free, Thank you in advance to this matter.
I am usually accused here of being 'discouraging', so I may not be the right person. Opiate withdrawal stinks; I wish every doc who prescribes opiates was forced to go through it! The problem is that while every addict thinks that he'll be fine once he gets through withdrawal, in reality the addiction tends to return over and over for years. In my OPINION, a person needs meetings forever, or a maintenance treatment forever. The withdrawal is miserable with or without bupe unfortunately.
I know it's a relatively small price compared with the alternative, but without Insurance this gets quite expensive. I'm going to reduce myself down to 4 mgs. a day from 12 mgs. every 24 hrs.
It must be physiological, the need for more than 4 mgs. It would cut the costs down considerably .
Ok, im on suboxone an it is the reason i am alive today. I just dont understand why it has to cost so much?? My opinion about the price is that, the people that need it most are probably the people who cant afford it, otherwise they wouldnt have a problem paying for there opiate habit. I know many people that would kill for the opportunity to take suboxone,but they cant afford it. The goal is not to use drugs/opiates, why make it nearly impossible for some people to pay for it?Thank God i can!
After being on suboxone for almost 3 years the difference I see in the milligrams is when your on 16mg or whatever you can go longer without dosing, and when your down to like 4mg or 2mg you feel the withdrawal quicker and need to dose sooner.
this stuff seemed to have an anti-jones effect. cravings for EVERYTHING stopped. i thought it was me.. unfortunately, when i stopped, the cravings came back. but this stuff is so cool. i don't know why it has to cost as much as it does.
Opiate blockers do block alcohol cravings-- naltrexone is sold as a tablet and as a long-term injection to treat alcoholism. A generic is now on the market so hopefully the price will come down. Hopefully.
how long can someone be on suboxone? or how long should they be on suoxone iv been taking it for almost a year i only take half of a 8mg pill a day and i have to say it has helpd me become normal again i found a intrest in photography had a kid got married but i do fear having to take this forever is coming off the drug as bad as heroin or opiets??? how long could someone take this drug and be safe healt wise does it have long term effects
The active ingredient, buprenorphine, has been around for 30 years. There are no long-term side effects that we know of at this point. In my opinion over 'whether to stay on it' is a moot point for many addicts, as there is no other option for them. Many, perhaps most, current opiate addicts cannot stay clean if they are not on Suboxone... and we KNOW the long-term harm of active using- if the person lives 'long-term'!
the location of the ceiling depends on the efficiency of dosing. I rarely see withdrawal in people tapering from 24 down to 4 mg-- where the w/d really starts. Good luck at staying clean-- no sarcasm intended.
So doctor, what is the point of even taking a dose higher than 4mg? My doctor started me at 16 and 2 1/2 years later I'm still on the same amount, and now it seems like it isn't "holding" me anymore.
Some programs, including one in the city where I live, never give more than 4 mg for that exact reason. I think that some docs give in the the sensation all of us addicts have-- that we 'need more'. Higher doses might reduce cravings a bit more effectively- the jury is still out on that. They also provide a stronger block of agonists, so the addict can think 'what's the point of using-- it won't work anyway' (you CAN overcome lower doses with high doses of agonists).
There is no success rate here.I moved back a couple of years ago(I had cancer cells in my urine) I won that battle thank God, I was gone for 16 yrs when i left there was no narcotic problem, now that is thee biggest problem heremany of my friends are on pills alot of them want to get off of them your videos are the best i will spread the word on subox and your blog site and youtube i am going on subox next month...thankyou for taking your personnal time to help people you are a true healer.
thankyou for this educational info. I live on a reservation in montana, there is an enormous problem here with pills along with alcohol and street drugs ...we have IHS as the health provider or i should say pill provider and no education on how to deal with getting off narcotics ihs tries to deal with it the same way they deal with an alcoholic if you go to the treatment facility they give you valium to detox you for three days in the hospitol side then off to the treatment side for 28 days...
what made you decide to go into suboxone and your a psych dr.? Do you have any experience with opioids yourself besides just book and patient relationships? I ask because someone who has been through what us "opiate dependant ppl" have been though will do just about anything to get help and it seems dr's out here in the world know this and take advantage of this and my clinic I go to there is about 3000 patients so I know he is cleaning up swell!!
I'm really sorry you've been so misled I would really suggest you look into how much Docs make that work in addictionology compared to other much, much more profitable fields like dermatology. The majority of docs who work in addiction medicine really pretty much have to do it because they care, I mean seriously who would volunteer to put up with addicts behavior all day and make the least amount of money compared to other fields in medicine.
Thanks Pompeii-- I wonder about chrissy's comments myself, since a doc is limited to 30 patients his first year of prescribing Suboxone, and 100 patients after that. No matter the size of the clinic, it is 100 patients per doc-- at ALL of his practice areas. So maybe she sees 3000 patients at her clinic, but only 100 of them are treated with Suboxone. That's one more reason that so few docs get certified-- if you don't have some special feeling about treating addiction, it isn't worth it.
Think about how horribly in debt most docs are when getting out of med school, I mean we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone was only concerned about making money addiction medicine wouldn't even be an option.
The video is more explanatory than most Drs. are even when you are paying them. But I must agree with the peoples below the cost even with insurance is still pretty steep. Even if the cost per month is lower the immediate cost is higher than a single dose which is how addicts live...dose by dose.
I really don't think money should be an issue. we get what we want one way or anouther. Look at what we have spent on our drugs every month. I myself hate to think about it, and the people I had to hurt to get it.
we arn't spending 200 bucks on oxys, plus a bag-o-weed, and alcohol everyday, so financially we are getting back on track. and our bodies and minds have gone thu hell and back. thos damn pills kicked my ass, and so many others the more i look into it. thank you 4 your dedication to helping broken men and woman. because these pills are so brutal.
yes, you are right. i guess i didn't know all the facts. Someone told me that it costs that much, i have no insurance or doc. so my access to it is imposable without breaking the law.(because im a broke addict) one more question; is it true in some states you can buy them one at a time in a pharmacy?legally?
how the hell is the REAL addict going to get this drug? it costs 700-800 bucks a month! u doctors and pharmacists dont understand the bottom line...MONEY! go pick a addict off the street and tell him to pay u 800 bucks a month and u can get this one! u know what he'll tell u?
I have plenty of 'addicts off the street' in my practice. Treatment in my office costs less than $100 per month for my fees; the med is expensive, but almost everybody can do find with 8 mg per day, which costs less than $200 per month in most areas. That comes to $300-- before any discounting or insurance (in Wisconsin, the med is covered by Medicaid and almost all private insurers). $300 for a month-- that's cheaper than 2 days of OC for most addicts! But even your '$800' is a bargain.
what if u don't have insurance? is there any way 4 a addict to get the drug if he/she is broke? because lets all admit that if a person has come this far in addiction,they r prob struggling financially.(to say the least) with it causting so much, most cases result in the addict buying it off the street. (given it is available) and most times it is not. resulting in just another stumbling block for the poor soul. is there anything that can be done?
have you tried to apply for medicaid insurance? I know in my state mi there in a agency you go to for a referral and with no insurance like for methadone and this they have something called a block grant that covers it , so maybe you can check into what your state has to offer if you havent already. Every state is diff. but make sure you checked all your resources and google things too. There is always hope somewhere good luck.
Thanks for the very informative breakdown. I am actually going to see a Dr next week to get on the drug. I have taken suboxone before (illicitly) when in WD's and it does indeed help and you do not get high like other opiates.
While there might be some individual variation, the ceiling effects of buprenorphine are well established by a number of studies. If you are not getting good absorption, however, the effect would seem to increase with increased dosing... there are also huge 'placebo' effects with pain and addiction, and so it would take a double blind study to really prove that the effect was not active in your case. Maybe you can try that sometime-- it would be interesting to try.
very informative...but I wonder why it is that doctors will prescribe up to 32mg max if the effect is the same as 4 mg...the pharmecutical companies trying to get more of thier product sold, possibly? Or to appease the addict that thinks 4 mg isnt enough...thanks alot for your videos...they are very much appreciated...
I don't know why the high doses-- the manufacturer actually has a program going to try to stop diversion of the drug, and they send out flyers to docs and pharmacies saying that the max dose should be 16 mg per day. I tend to blame the doctors, for not understanding the properties of the drug or for not being able to say 'no' to the addict demands for 'more'... Although the manufacturer could certainly make it cheaper!
i do have theories as to why they are doing it (i've been in touch with manufacturers in this part of the world)....but I'm very averse toward using high-dose bup...addicts here demand for more because everyone here is under the assumption it is a full agonist, and so dose-response will be linear....as for making it cheaper...thebaine is the quickest route although i'm sure there could be cheaper alternatives...
i should clarify though, i think high-dose bup in the initial stages of treatment (1-2 weeks) would be excellent. i find too many negative effects beyond 4mg. To each his own :)
I for one feel very informed. thanks for the information . I'll take 2 copies of that book. let us know when it's done THANKS AGAIN . a lot of people out here need to know more about the weaning process.
Hey, thank you very much for your nice comments! I hate to make this into a plug-- but I am working on a book about Suboxone-- 'an addict's guide' or something like that. I will put out a video about it if I ever get it together!
This information is consice and more valuable to me than the thousands of pages I have read on Suboxone so far. Thank you for taking the time out of what I'm sure is a very busy schedule.
Dr. I just listen to your lecture on Subox. and you are totally right. Thank you for taking your time out of your busy schedule to talk to all of us. I think the people that are angry at Suboxone is because they are using something else and that is getting them high, whereas Suboxone will not get you high. Well...it's never given me a "high" felling, never. Again I thank you for all your hard & long work educating all of us. Your are right on. I bet your a wonderful Dr. too ; )
ohpineapples 2 years ago
It's all a bit like tetris.
lobsterlab 2 years ago
thanx doc !
madmanltd 2 years ago
:-)
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
i've been watching these videos all morning and they are very intresting. I am a vicodin and soma abuser trying to become free of these drugs for good but without the painful withdraws. I do have a couple of suboxones to help assist me in quitting. Do you request anything or can you say anything just to assist or encourage me to stay opiate free, Thank you in advance to this matter.
MultiChocolatediva 2 years ago
I am usually accused here of being 'discouraging', so I may not be the right person. Opiate withdrawal stinks; I wish every doc who prescribes opiates was forced to go through it! The problem is that while every addict thinks that he'll be fine once he gets through withdrawal, in reality the addiction tends to return over and over for years. In my OPINION, a person needs meetings forever, or a maintenance treatment forever. The withdrawal is miserable with or without bupe unfortunately.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
What is the best way to ge on soboxone without insurance ?
moneyman1892 2 years ago
If you cannot stop using oxycodone or heroin, pay cash for Suboxone-- the right way, from a doc. It is a lot cheaper than using-- and safer!
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
I felt like SHIT coming off subutex.
I tapered down SLOW, and jumped off at 0.2mg/day.
The withdrawal was no different than heroin - a 2 week death trip.
Panik303 2 years ago
When is the price of Suboxone going to drop?
I know it's a relatively small price compared with the alternative, but without Insurance this gets quite expensive. I'm going to reduce myself down to 4 mgs. a day from 12 mgs. every 24 hrs.
It must be physiological, the need for more than 4 mgs. It would cut the costs down considerably .
willyD200 2 years ago
Good news-- I'm just about to post to Suboxone talk zone on some news you won't want to miss!
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
Ok, im on suboxone an it is the reason i am alive today. I just dont understand why it has to cost so much?? My opinion about the price is that, the people that need it most are probably the people who cant afford it, otherwise they wouldnt have a problem paying for there opiate habit. I know many people that would kill for the opportunity to take suboxone,but they cant afford it. The goal is not to use drugs/opiates, why make it nearly impossible for some people to pay for it?Thank God i can!
rta417 2 years ago 2
See my post on Suboxone Talk Zone in a few minutes...
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
After being on suboxone for almost 3 years the difference I see in the milligrams is when your on 16mg or whatever you can go longer without dosing, and when your down to like 4mg or 2mg you feel the withdrawal quicker and need to dose sooner.
downfan1 2 years ago
i just had my one year free from opiates and I know suboxone saved my life.
cliffyknight 2 years ago
Ive been on soboxone for almost a year and honestly believe it saved my life!
cenabite 2 years ago
this stuff seemed to have an anti-jones effect. cravings for EVERYTHING stopped. i thought it was me.. unfortunately, when i stopped, the cravings came back. but this stuff is so cool. i don't know why it has to cost as much as it does.
yippittydoda 2 years ago
Opiate blockers do block alcohol cravings-- naltrexone is sold as a tablet and as a long-term injection to treat alcoholism. A generic is now on the market so hopefully the price will come down. Hopefully.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
how long can someone be on suboxone? or how long should they be on suoxone iv been taking it for almost a year i only take half of a 8mg pill a day and i have to say it has helpd me become normal again i found a intrest in photography had a kid got married but i do fear having to take this forever is coming off the drug as bad as heroin or opiets??? how long could someone take this drug and be safe healt wise does it have long term effects
testdummy22 2 years ago
The active ingredient, buprenorphine, has been around for 30 years. There are no long-term side effects that we know of at this point. In my opinion over 'whether to stay on it' is a moot point for many addicts, as there is no other option for them. Many, perhaps most, current opiate addicts cannot stay clean if they are not on Suboxone... and we KNOW the long-term harm of active using- if the person lives 'long-term'!
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
the location of the ceiling depends on the efficiency of dosing. I rarely see withdrawal in people tapering from 24 down to 4 mg-- where the w/d really starts. Good luck at staying clean-- no sarcasm intended.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
i used to use it for oxy dependence after intense surgery, but now use it as maintenence for arthritis pain. works like majic.
c3contact123 2 years ago
So doctor, what is the point of even taking a dose higher than 4mg? My doctor started me at 16 and 2 1/2 years later I'm still on the same amount, and now it seems like it isn't "holding" me anymore.
downfan1 2 years ago
Some programs, including one in the city where I live, never give more than 4 mg for that exact reason. I think that some docs give in the the sensation all of us addicts have-- that we 'need more'. Higher doses might reduce cravings a bit more effectively- the jury is still out on that. They also provide a stronger block of agonists, so the addict can think 'what's the point of using-- it won't work anyway' (you CAN overcome lower doses with high doses of agonists).
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
There is no success rate here.I moved back a couple of years ago(I had cancer cells in my urine) I won that battle thank God, I was gone for 16 yrs when i left there was no narcotic problem, now that is thee biggest problem heremany of my friends are on pills alot of them want to get off of them your videos are the best i will spread the word on subox and your blog site and youtube i am going on subox next month...thankyou for taking your personnal time to help people you are a true healer.
ron196 2 years ago
Wow-- thanks man-
JJ
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
thankyou for this educational info. I live on a reservation in montana, there is an enormous problem here with pills along with alcohol and street drugs ...we have IHS as the health provider or i should say pill provider and no education on how to deal with getting off narcotics ihs tries to deal with it the same way they deal with an alcoholic if you go to the treatment facility they give you valium to detox you for three days in the hospitol side then off to the treatment side for 28 days...
ron196 2 years ago
what made you decide to go into suboxone and your a psych dr.? Do you have any experience with opioids yourself besides just book and patient relationships? I ask because someone who has been through what us "opiate dependant ppl" have been though will do just about anything to get help and it seems dr's out here in the world know this and take advantage of this and my clinic I go to there is about 3000 patients so I know he is cleaning up swell!!
chrissys31 2 years ago
I'm really sorry you've been so misled I would really suggest you look into how much Docs make that work in addictionology compared to other much, much more profitable fields like dermatology. The majority of docs who work in addiction medicine really pretty much have to do it because they care, I mean seriously who would volunteer to put up with addicts behavior all day and make the least amount of money compared to other fields in medicine.
Pompeii222 2 years ago
Thanks Pompeii-- I wonder about chrissy's comments myself, since a doc is limited to 30 patients his first year of prescribing Suboxone, and 100 patients after that. No matter the size of the clinic, it is 100 patients per doc-- at ALL of his practice areas. So maybe she sees 3000 patients at her clinic, but only 100 of them are treated with Suboxone. That's one more reason that so few docs get certified-- if you don't have some special feeling about treating addiction, it isn't worth it.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
my pain doctor wants me on two mg day. if 4mg is optimum, why do doctors prescribe more than that up to 16mg?
c3contact123 2 years ago
see my comments below.
SuboxDoc 2 years ago
Think about how horribly in debt most docs are when getting out of med school, I mean we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone was only concerned about making money addiction medicine wouldn't even be an option.
Pompeii222 2 years ago
The video is more explanatory than most Drs. are even when you are paying them. But I must agree with the peoples below the cost even with insurance is still pretty steep. Even if the cost per month is lower the immediate cost is higher than a single dose which is how addicts live...dose by dose.
nocmonkey 2 years ago
I really don't think money should be an issue. we get what we want one way or anouther. Look at what we have spent on our drugs every month. I myself hate to think about it, and the people I had to hurt to get it.
lilgrl40 3 years ago
we arn't spending 200 bucks on oxys, plus a bag-o-weed, and alcohol everyday, so financially we are getting back on track. and our bodies and minds have gone thu hell and back. thos damn pills kicked my ass, and so many others the more i look into it. thank you 4 your dedication to helping broken men and woman. because these pills are so brutal.
jataylor7 3 years ago 2
yes, you are right. i guess i didn't know all the facts. Someone told me that it costs that much, i have no insurance or doc. so my access to it is imposable without breaking the law.(because im a broke addict) one more question; is it true in some states you can buy them one at a time in a pharmacy?legally?
jataylor7 3 years ago
how the hell is the REAL addict going to get this drug? it costs 700-800 bucks a month! u doctors and pharmacists dont understand the bottom line...MONEY! go pick a addict off the street and tell him to pay u 800 bucks a month and u can get this one! u know what he'll tell u?
jataylor7 3 years ago
I have plenty of 'addicts off the street' in my practice. Treatment in my office costs less than $100 per month for my fees; the med is expensive, but almost everybody can do find with 8 mg per day, which costs less than $200 per month in most areas. That comes to $300-- before any discounting or insurance (in Wisconsin, the med is covered by Medicaid and almost all private insurers). $300 for a month-- that's cheaper than 2 days of OC for most addicts! But even your '$800' is a bargain.
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
what if u don't have insurance? is there any way 4 a addict to get the drug if he/she is broke? because lets all admit that if a person has come this far in addiction,they r prob struggling financially.(to say the least) with it causting so much, most cases result in the addict buying it off the street. (given it is available) and most times it is not. resulting in just another stumbling block for the poor soul. is there anything that can be done?
jataylor7 3 years ago
have you tried to apply for medicaid insurance? I know in my state mi there in a agency you go to for a referral and with no insurance like for methadone and this they have something called a block grant that covers it , so maybe you can check into what your state has to offer if you havent already. Every state is diff. but make sure you checked all your resources and google things too. There is always hope somewhere good luck.
chrissys31 2 years ago
Thanks for the very informative breakdown. I am actually going to see a Dr next week to get on the drug. I have taken suboxone before (illicitly) when in WD's and it does indeed help and you do not get high like other opiates.
spgaspar 3 years ago
While there might be some individual variation, the ceiling effects of buprenorphine are well established by a number of studies. If you are not getting good absorption, however, the effect would seem to increase with increased dosing... there are also huge 'placebo' effects with pain and addiction, and so it would take a double blind study to really prove that the effect was not active in your case. Maybe you can try that sometime-- it would be interesting to try.
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
Thanks!
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
very informative...but I wonder why it is that doctors will prescribe up to 32mg max if the effect is the same as 4 mg...the pharmecutical companies trying to get more of thier product sold, possibly? Or to appease the addict that thinks 4 mg isnt enough...thanks alot for your videos...they are very much appreciated...
salamagogo 3 years ago
I don't know why the high doses-- the manufacturer actually has a program going to try to stop diversion of the drug, and they send out flyers to docs and pharmacies saying that the max dose should be 16 mg per day. I tend to blame the doctors, for not understanding the properties of the drug or for not being able to say 'no' to the addict demands for 'more'... Although the manufacturer could certainly make it cheaper!
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
i do have theories as to why they are doing it (i've been in touch with manufacturers in this part of the world)....but I'm very averse toward using high-dose bup...addicts here demand for more because everyone here is under the assumption it is a full agonist, and so dose-response will be linear....as for making it cheaper...thebaine is the quickest route although i'm sure there could be cheaper alternatives...
methoxymetopon 3 years ago
i should clarify though, i think high-dose bup in the initial stages of treatment (1-2 weeks) would be excellent. i find too many negative effects beyond 4mg. To each his own :)
methoxymetopon 3 years ago
thank you very much for making this
theorangeoranges 3 years ago
I for one feel very informed. thanks for the information . I'll take 2 copies of that book. let us know when it's done THANKS AGAIN . a lot of people out here need to know more about the weaning process.
lilgrl40 3 years ago
thank you ,im wanting to get off oxy but cant miss work and maybe suboxone is my answer to that ,again thank you for the free advice
zzmannnn 3 years ago
Hey, thank you very much for your nice comments! I hate to make this into a plug-- but I am working on a book about Suboxone-- 'an addict's guide' or something like that. I will put out a video about it if I ever get it together!
SuboxDoc 3 years ago
This information is consice and more valuable to me than the thousands of pages I have read on Suboxone so far. Thank you for taking the time out of what I'm sure is a very busy schedule.
zbyszek654 3 years ago
Wow... Most of my questions have been answered. Thank you so much for uploading!
JTurbinator 3 years ago