אלי אלי למה עזבתני.. this is an israeli song about the Holocaust. I can't imagine for what reason they thought it would be a good idea to make it a Christian song, this sadness me because the catholic church was supportive of the murdering that occurred between 1941-1945
@BenjaminGolding Stop making stuff up about Catholic church supporting the holocaust. It saddens me that Jews hate Christians... Why is U.S. helping Israel again??? Oh, I know, so in return we can receive hatred from Jews...
@BenjaminGolding ...and you sadden me because my Catholic grandfather was hiding Jews in his home during WWII, risking not only his own life, but his family's as well. How dare you to say that catholic church was supportive of the holocaust. I see that all those efforts my ancestors made saving Jewish lives were in vain. Good to know you think that way about Christians...
@putzgadol ...and it is outrageous of you to say these things. Before opening your mouth, do a research and see how many Christians were hiding Jews during WWII. Unfortunately, Jews hate them for that now. Wow, I'm speechless because of your words.
GOD NEVER ABANDONED HIS CREATURES .HE ALWAYS TAKE CARE OF THEM. HUMAN DO EVIL THINGS LIKE STEAL ING AND OCCUPYING OTHER LAND BY FORCE SUCH AS PALESTINE. GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU IF YOU FREE PALESTINE.
Poštovani kršćani, Isus je bio poslanik od Boga Jedinog, rodila ga je djevica Marija kao čovjeka. Živio je kao čovjek isto kao i svi mi. Uzvišeni Bog ne rađa, nego stvara. Tako je stvorio i Isusa u Mariji. To Bogu Uzvišenom nije teško. Adam i Eva su stvoreni bez oca i majke pa ih niko ne smatra bogovima, a po vašoj logici, trebali bi biti veći bogovi od Isusa i Marije. Razmislite malo o tome. *(-_-)*
at first I was surprised by the quality improvement of Tatiana‘s voice (listening to her for the first time after 20 years), and at 0:56 I was like...oh...yeah, that wasn‘t Tatiana, THERE she goes.
Tajči u <3 :) Neka se ona nama vratila. :) I to što je otišla u Ameriku je njega stvar i njen život. Nije jedina koja je otišla tamo i ima svoje razloge.
I don't know about you, but I don't recognize the word "sabachtani" from any text I've ever read in Hebrew. If anything, it sounds like a bastardation of the Aramaic "shavaktani", which translates as "forsakened me", or "abandoned me" as the 2nd girl sings. Considering that they stand underneath a Christ idol, I doubt they are referring to David's "why have you forsaken me" in Psalms, and are more likely to quote what, according to the Gospel, were Jesus's last words before his death.
@moshehim nice comment sir, you are partially correct on all accounts. The Christian Bible, as far as the oldest original texts found thus far, come to us written in Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and the new testament is written in Greek. The oldest record for the Psalam 22 we have (I believe) that is attributed to David was in Aramaic. As you may or may not know there was a time that Hebrew was not commonly used by the or known by the common Jewish people It was replaced by Aramaic.
@moshehim The Psalm 22 as you may know starts with Eli, Eli Lema Sabachtani (spelling is wrong I know) which was recognized as another sign that Jesus was confirming his claim of being the Messiah by the people gathered there at the day of his crucifixion. The witnesses report the amazement of the people who heard this statement that Jesus would still keep this "act" up in the throws of pain on the cross. His actual last words before the death on the cross were "It is finished!".
@ChefNachOmama Psalms 22 starts not with "lama sabachtani", but rather with "lama azavtani". There was, indeed a time when Hebrew was not commonly used or known by common Jews. Before that there was a time when Hebrew was known only by the common Jews, but not the elite, who spoke Aramaic or Greek, depending on their location. Either way, Psalms 22 predates that time by at least a millennia, so there's no question that Psalms was in Hebrew, not Aramaic, which was virtually unknown at the time.
@ChefNachOmama As for "lama sabachtani", it makes no sense. "lama" is in Hebrew, the Aramaic translation would drop the "l".
The ancient Hebrew "why" is made out of "le" (=for) and "ma" (=what), meaning what for?, contracted into "lama" (=why). In later times it was replaced with "madua", but "lama" was once more adopted in modern times during the revival of the Hebrew language.
@moshehim The Aramaic "why" is "amai" - a contraction of "ah" (=for) and "mai" (=what). Had Jesus spoken Aramaic, he would have used "amai". Had he spoken Hebrew, he would have quoted the correct "azavtani" from Psalms. Since the text does neither, and furthermore, it uses "sabachtani", which isn't even correct Aramaic, it thus fails both grammar, vocabulary and common sense. Therefore, either Jesus was an illiterate fool, or whomever recorded him was one I tend to believe the later.
@moshehim Given that the Gospel was written by Romans and for Romans, at least a century after the fact, based on fourth-hand accounts at best, if at all, it's pretty obvious that the writer didn't know much Hebrew or Aramaic.
@moshehim P.S. While writing about "amai" I was sitting with an Aramaic dictionary. So I checked for "sabachtani" - couldn't find anything like it. The closest is "sebachta", which is a kind of a hair net... Well, actually, it's "sevachta".
Like I said in my original post, the correct root for "forsaka/abandon/leave" is Sh.V.K. ("shevaktani").
@moshehim It is really nice to speak with one as knowledgeable as you. I would like to point out at some things that may have perhaps eluded you. The words sung here are from Matthew 27:45-46. Strong's Concordance says that these Greek words are "transliterations" of Hebrew / Aramaic words. As transliterations into Greek from another language they were twisted enough to be understandable by the Helenized readers. To make things even more confusing they are pronounced by...
@moshehim ...one American and one Croatian native speaker. Secondly you have stated that there is no evidence or correlation between Psalam 22 and the words spoken here due to a problem of time passage and other linguistic issues as well as dating issues of the books in the new testament. These problems are a matter of belief and denominational doctrine...also you have mentioned only one side of the argument (I'm sure you are aware of the claim's that propose different dates).
@ChefNachOmama Never said anything like that. Of course Jesus was quoting Psalms 22. Or perhaps misquoting. (The New Testament is full of both quotes and misquotes from the Old.) What I asked is what of it?
@moshehim I never claimed that the original version of Psalm 22 was not in Hebrew...only that the oldest document we have now was (I believe) in Aramaic. But Back to the main thing. I misunderstood your original post. I assumed you didn't understand what they were speaking of altogether. What you really stated is that they are not making sense linguistically or logically according to your own presuppositions of interpretation.
@moshehim On another note the Rabbinic teaching demands that for instance the text from Isaiah 53 is a description of the "false Messiah"...purposefully because it depicts events that will be coming to fruition in the life of Jesus. Opposed to this Jesus according to the Christian perspective was found in traces and hints even in the various passages of the Torah, Rabbinic law as well as psalms.
@ChefNachOmama I'm not quite sure what you meant to say here. As for Rabbinical teachings of Isaiah 53, the understanding - going back centuries before Jesus was born - went 4 was:
1. Isaiah himself.
2. A specific person in established Jewish history of the day (King Joshiah II, King Jekhezkiah, the prophet Jeremiah, or others.)
3. The future messiah who would bring salvation to Israel - not a false one.
4. Israel itself. As in the people, the nation, as Isaiha often addresses them.
@moshehim Early Christians - themselves still Jews - adopted the explanation about the messiah, and claimed it was about Jesus. For generations Rabbis had to fend against such claims, but modern Christian scholars now openly admit the description in the texts simply doesn't fit with the known history of Jesus, or his New Testament description - as well as that of his character - and so it can't possibly be about him.
But if the prophecy is about the messiah, it's about a true one, not a false.
@moshehim Another thing, one needs to see the entire text of the Psalm 22 to understand why this was reported as another proof of Jesus the Messiah. There are many interpretations of what happened at this point but if one presupposes that Jesus was indeed the Messiah one can also presuppose that God embodied wouldn't have fear of death 3 days before he defeated it.
@ChefNachOmama Okay, I just read Psalm 22. Twice. Nothing at all about the messiah there. I'm sure lots and lots of Jews read it from start to end to express their plight, Just like Jesus, the Jew, on the cross, and no one ever accused them of aspiring to divinity or even to a divinely ordained fate.
Once again, I'm not quite sure how you got from the beginning of your post to its end, or what you actually meant to say. But if I understand your argument, Jesus was indeed afraid, so much so that he called to God in despair. So doesn't it prove he had no expectation to survive the ordeal? I'm sure he saw thousands of other crucified Jews, and had no notion his fate would be any different.
So I don't understand - are you trying to say Jesus was embodying God or that he wasn't?
@moshehim Sorry for being unclear. The truncating of thought was induced by the limitations of the forum. To reiterate: Everything you have claimed is based on your own assumptions, worldview and belief. No matter how you back that up with scholarly information it only expresses one point of view. I was making a case for the opposite point of view that is equally based on scholarly: assumptions, worldview and then belief in the general topic. It was an argumented "agree to dissagree" of sorts.
@ChefNachOmama It really does suck to write this way, does it not?
Anyway, I don't see where there can be two opinions here. The quote, made out of no more than three words, obviously begins in Hebrew and ends in badly mangled Aramaic, so it doesn't really make any sense, no matter how you look at it.
@moshehim This discussion has grown into troll-like proportions as far as volume goes...so I wont reply to this post again. If however you wish to talk more, PM me with your e-mail info and I'll gladly elaborate. In the meantime: May the blessing of the Lord be upon you.
@ChefNachOmama As for the contents of the quote, I can't see how it implies that Jesus was the messiah. "God, why have you forsaken me" is a very primal human reaction, especially with Jews - like Jesus - and especially Pharisees - again, like Jesus - who hold a personal relationship with God and disdained the formal, ritual-based form of worship of the Sadducees who ruled in Jerusalem (kind of like the protestants disdained the Catholic rituals of mass and communion, and preferred...
@ChefNachOmama As for the context of the quote, I can't see how it's any indication that Jesus was - or thought he was - the messiah. "God, why have you forsaken me?" is a very primal human cry. We see it even in pagans (although then it's mostly "Gods, why have you forsaken me"), and doubly so with Jews - like Jesus himself - who hold a personal relationship with God. Even more so with Pharisees - again, like Jesus - who held that personal relationship at the centre of their faith and...
@moshehim opposed and disdained the formal, ritual-centered worship of the Sadducees who ruled Jerusalem. [Kind of like how the early Protestan Christians desdained the Ctholic rites of mass and communion and preffered that the faithfull read the bible for themselves ad insisted they could pray anywhere, not only in a church and through an ordained priest. They faced the church organisation and the monarchy, who were empoweredby Catholic beliefes as god's ordained representative on Earth...
@moshehim on matters spiritual, and his divinely chosen rulers temporal, just as the Jerusalem priesthood and the Jewish nobility were empowerd by the Sadducees' doctrine. The protenstants thus flourished where Monarchy was weak (such as in Scotland and in northern Germany) or non existant (such as in the Neatherlands) or when the Monarchy sought to usurp the power of the church as well (such as in England). In Judea, the Pharisees flourished outside Jerusalem due to their piety, ...
@moshehim their scholarly prowess and because their ranks were open to everyone, and thus enjoyed the wide support base of the commoners. Since the Romans burned Jeruslaem, got rid of most of the nobility, and destroyed the Temple, where the ritual-based worship was centered, the question was soon to be moot, anyway.]
Anyway, like I said, it's a primal call in the soul of the Jew: I'm pious, I'm worshipful, I followed your commandments to the letter, and yet I suffer, while the evil and...
@moshehim sinful prosper. It's a basic human thing, one of the stages of dealing with grief is "why is it happening to me?". Being Jewish and religeousm the question is thus turned to God rather than being channeled internaly.
What is more to the point, however, is that the personal relationship of Jew and their god is so close that often the call of "God, why have you forsaken me" is exchanged with "father! Why have ou forsaken me?" It's common with many Jews through the ages, ...
@moshehim especially those with leanings towards mysticism, less so with those leaning towards rationalism of the beliefe, as mainstream Judaism was for centuries. Jesus reputably was heavy on the mystical side of religeon, so "father" would be in place. Especially if he was actually - or at least believed he was - the son of God, as the Catholics claimed. That he didn't say "father" serves to prove that he wasn't really, or at least didn't see himself as one, [as some early Christian sects...
@moshehim especially those with leanings towards mysticism, less so with those leaning towards rationalism of the beliefe, as mainstream Judaism was for centuries. Jesus reputably was heavy on the mystical side of religeon, so "father" would be in place. Especially if he was actually - or at least believed he was - the son of God, as the Catholics claimed. That he didn't say "father" serves to prove that he wasn't really, or at least didn't see himself as one, [as some early Christian sects...
@moshehim claimed, and were subsequently denounced by the Roman Catholics as heretics and violently oppressed. (Others yet claimed he was adopted in his thirties, not born to God. Their followers were persecuted by the Catholics and Byzantines alike as well.)]
otherwise he would definitely be using "father" on that occssion.
have you ever felt this way, that God has abandoned you? just remember the promise
Hebrews 13:5-6 (King James Version) 5Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. 6So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
God is always with you and will never leave you barren. may God grace and peace always fill your hearts with his Love.
istina, samo što ni to nije hebrejski već aramejski, veoma sličan tj. bratski jezik hebrejskome. inace se slažem s tobom uglavnom, Neka te Hrist sačuva od zla :)
izvini ako sam pogrešio, neznam kakav je moderni hebrejski, ali znam da su ti djelovi u Novom Zavjetu jedini koji su pisani u aramejskom jeziku, ostalo je sve grčko u izvorniku naravno, barem tako na teologiji uče.
uz to nisam se došao svađati, i još nešto, ako toliko znaš hebrejski, zamolio bih te ili vas, za uslugu, možete li mi reči gdje ga mogu počet učiti preko interneta besplatno, ili bi me vi bili voljni podučavati, pošto me iznimno interesira? hvala
Nisam ni ja tu da se svadjam i diskusija na neku temu ne znaci automatski i sukob...
Ja na zalost nemam vise vremena za poducavanje, a uciti hebrejski preko interneta je meni barem nezamislivo-pismo je znakovno a slova ima samo 21 u pisanom obliku a 34 u govornom tako da...Ali ako zelite reci mi u kom gradu zivis pa bih te mogla uputiti na neku skolu ili kurs.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Tajci's sister is a better singer & more talented. Tatiana is just ugly & trying to be pretty and seductive by singing. This has no place in church. Other videos of Tatiana in her youth show her to be very sluty.
welcome. I you wish to know there resedence is in ohio either cincinatti or cleveland I think.
They do travel around though and have played venues that are the size of thousands to churches that seat if even a hundred. And no she has not forgot her homeland. she talks about it during her concerts and how it was growing up and how she spent her fortune as a mega star trying to promote peace during the civil war in her homeland.
Now, she is a christian singer that travels with her family
ma ljudi kakve gluposti to vi buljezgate. Žena se ocito okrenula vjeri te ju shvaca onako kako vjeru treba shvatiti. Ne onako kako se kod nas prezentira - kao simbol pripadnosti naroda. Mi smo uspjeli Boga poniziti. I cemu da se ona vrati? Ljudima koji nas javno lažu i kradu sa križem oko vrata? Ne bi se ni ja vratio. Doduše baš kontra, odlazim uskoro i dok su mi roditelji živi vracam se samo zbog njih. Dosta mi je više ovog brdovitog Balkana.
Tajci, please don't forget your home and that we miss you very much. Your country always has and always will love you very much! Please come back to your home....
I recently saw this concert on TBN. I had never heard of Tatiana before. What a blessing to have had the opportunity to come to know her music. What a beautiful voice, a true gift! Her sister is just as wonderful, her bluesy melody compliments Tatiana's classical Baroue sound. A match only G-d could make! The L-rd bless them both, and their families!
Vjecna kraljica bivse Jugoslavije Tajci...Kamo srece da se vrati u Zagreb, i da povrati sjaj nasoj muzickoj sceni, da se rastjeraju one glupace koje ne znaju pjevati
אלי אלי למה עזבתני.. this is an israeli song about the Holocaust. I can't imagine for what reason they thought it would be a good idea to make it a Christian song, this sadness me because the catholic church was supportive of the murdering that occurred between 1941-1945
BenjaminGolding 3 months ago
@BenjaminGolding Stop making stuff up about Catholic church supporting the holocaust. It saddens me that Jews hate Christians... Why is U.S. helping Israel again??? Oh, I know, so in return we can receive hatred from Jews...
01Estas 1 week ago
@BenjaminGolding israeli song? no. if you are referring to the song written by hanna senesh, then it's a different song.
yellowfish555 1 week ago
@BenjaminGolding ...and you sadden me because my Catholic grandfather was hiding Jews in his home during WWII, risking not only his own life, but his family's as well. How dare you to say that catholic church was supportive of the holocaust. I see that all those efforts my ancestors made saving Jewish lives were in vain. Good to know you think that way about Christians...
Estas01 1 week ago
this is a jewish song about the holocaust. to turn it into a christian
song is absolutely outrageous
putzgadol 3 months ago
@putzgadol Get over with your hatred.
01Estas 1 week ago
@putzgadol ...and it is outrageous of you to say these things. Before opening your mouth, do a research and see how many Christians were hiding Jews during WWII. Unfortunately, Jews hate them for that now. Wow, I'm speechless because of your words.
Estas01 1 week ago
GOD NEVER ABANDONED HIS CREATURES .HE ALWAYS TAKE CARE OF THEM. HUMAN DO EVIL THINGS LIKE STEAL ING AND OCCUPYING OTHER LAND BY FORCE SUCH AS PALESTINE. GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU IF YOU FREE PALESTINE.
tuby66 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Poštovani kršćani, Isus je bio poslanik od Boga Jedinog, rodila ga je djevica Marija kao čovjeka. Živio je kao čovjek isto kao i svi mi. Uzvišeni Bog ne rađa, nego stvara. Tako je stvorio i Isusa u Mariji. To Bogu Uzvišenom nije teško. Adam i Eva su stvoreni bez oca i majke pa ih niko ne smatra bogovima, a po vašoj logici, trebali bi biti veći bogovi od Isusa i Marije. Razmislite malo o tome. *(-_-)*
haaameee 9 months ago
AS A JEWISH GIRL...AMAZING!!!
violentbeautys 10 months ago
at first I was surprised by the quality improvement of Tatiana‘s voice (listening to her for the first time after 20 years), and at 0:56 I was like...oh...yeah, that wasn‘t Tatiana, THERE she goes.
Miganiya 10 months ago
drlog
patkovic 10 months ago
Tajči peva hrišćansku muziku? Kad se sad nisam šlogirao...
SvedskiKuvar 11 months ago
predobro pjeva....sa srcem skroz...to je važno i ništa više
rgcro 1 year ago
Odlicna stvar... Da li neko zna ko je komponovao muziku na ovaj tekst? Da li su to one?
Armusdanijel1 1 year ago
Tajči u <3 :) Neka se ona nama vratila. :) I to što je otišla u Ameriku je njega stvar i njen život. Nije jedina koja je otišla tamo i ima svoje razloge.
Debelaa 1 year ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pobjegla u Ameriku od rata i sad se vraća od budala pokupit pare na koncertima u EX YU...
oriontrail 1 year ago
Eli is aramic for Jahova. Short for El Shadi or El Adani.
MegaJesusfreak2011 1 year ago 2
@MegaJesusfreak2011
Eli is also a know hebrew and biblic hebrew to say my god! my lord!
the first girl sing in hebrew!
rotemsh1 10 months ago
@rotemsh1
I don't know about you, but I don't recognize the word "sabachtani" from any text I've ever read in Hebrew. If anything, it sounds like a bastardation of the Aramaic "shavaktani", which translates as "forsakened me", or "abandoned me" as the 2nd girl sings. Considering that they stand underneath a Christ idol, I doubt they are referring to David's "why have you forsaken me" in Psalms, and are more likely to quote what, according to the Gospel, were Jesus's last words before his death.
moshehim 6 months ago
@moshehim nice comment sir, you are partially correct on all accounts. The Christian Bible, as far as the oldest original texts found thus far, come to us written in Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and the new testament is written in Greek. The oldest record for the Psalam 22 we have (I believe) that is attributed to David was in Aramaic. As you may or may not know there was a time that Hebrew was not commonly used by the or known by the common Jewish people It was replaced by Aramaic.
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@moshehim The Psalm 22 as you may know starts with Eli, Eli Lema Sabachtani (spelling is wrong I know) which was recognized as another sign that Jesus was confirming his claim of being the Messiah by the people gathered there at the day of his crucifixion. The witnesses report the amazement of the people who heard this statement that Jesus would still keep this "act" up in the throws of pain on the cross. His actual last words before the death on the cross were "It is finished!".
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama Psalms 22 starts not with "lama sabachtani", but rather with "lama azavtani". There was, indeed a time when Hebrew was not commonly used or known by common Jews. Before that there was a time when Hebrew was known only by the common Jews, but not the elite, who spoke Aramaic or Greek, depending on their location. Either way, Psalms 22 predates that time by at least a millennia, so there's no question that Psalms was in Hebrew, not Aramaic, which was virtually unknown at the time.
moshehim 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama As for "lama sabachtani", it makes no sense. "lama" is in Hebrew, the Aramaic translation would drop the "l".
The ancient Hebrew "why" is made out of "le" (=for) and "ma" (=what), meaning what for?, contracted into "lama" (=why). In later times it was replaced with "madua", but "lama" was once more adopted in modern times during the revival of the Hebrew language.
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim The Aramaic "why" is "amai" - a contraction of "ah" (=for) and "mai" (=what). Had Jesus spoken Aramaic, he would have used "amai". Had he spoken Hebrew, he would have quoted the correct "azavtani" from Psalms. Since the text does neither, and furthermore, it uses "sabachtani", which isn't even correct Aramaic, it thus fails both grammar, vocabulary and common sense. Therefore, either Jesus was an illiterate fool, or whomever recorded him was one I tend to believe the later.
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim Given that the Gospel was written by Romans and for Romans, at least a century after the fact, based on fourth-hand accounts at best, if at all, it's pretty obvious that the writer didn't know much Hebrew or Aramaic.
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim P.S. While writing about "amai" I was sitting with an Aramaic dictionary. So I checked for "sabachtani" - couldn't find anything like it. The closest is "sebachta", which is a kind of a hair net... Well, actually, it's "sevachta".
Like I said in my original post, the correct root for "forsaka/abandon/leave" is Sh.V.K. ("shevaktani").
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim It is really nice to speak with one as knowledgeable as you. I would like to point out at some things that may have perhaps eluded you. The words sung here are from Matthew 27:45-46. Strong's Concordance says that these Greek words are "transliterations" of Hebrew / Aramaic words. As transliterations into Greek from another language they were twisted enough to be understandable by the Helenized readers. To make things even more confusing they are pronounced by...
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@moshehim ...one American and one Croatian native speaker. Secondly you have stated that there is no evidence or correlation between Psalam 22 and the words spoken here due to a problem of time passage and other linguistic issues as well as dating issues of the books in the new testament. These problems are a matter of belief and denominational doctrine...also you have mentioned only one side of the argument (I'm sure you are aware of the claim's that propose different dates).
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama Never said anything like that. Of course Jesus was quoting Psalms 22. Or perhaps misquoting. (The New Testament is full of both quotes and misquotes from the Old.) What I asked is what of it?
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim I never claimed that the original version of Psalm 22 was not in Hebrew...only that the oldest document we have now was (I believe) in Aramaic. But Back to the main thing. I misunderstood your original post. I assumed you didn't understand what they were speaking of altogether. What you really stated is that they are not making sense linguistically or logically according to your own presuppositions of interpretation.
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@moshehim On another note the Rabbinic teaching demands that for instance the text from Isaiah 53 is a description of the "false Messiah"...purposefully because it depicts events that will be coming to fruition in the life of Jesus. Opposed to this Jesus according to the Christian perspective was found in traces and hints even in the various passages of the Torah, Rabbinic law as well as psalms.
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama I'm not quite sure what you meant to say here. As for Rabbinical teachings of Isaiah 53, the understanding - going back centuries before Jesus was born - went 4 was:
1. Isaiah himself.
2. A specific person in established Jewish history of the day (King Joshiah II, King Jekhezkiah, the prophet Jeremiah, or others.)
3. The future messiah who would bring salvation to Israel - not a false one.
4. Israel itself. As in the people, the nation, as Isaiha often addresses them.
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim Early Christians - themselves still Jews - adopted the explanation about the messiah, and claimed it was about Jesus. For generations Rabbis had to fend against such claims, but modern Christian scholars now openly admit the description in the texts simply doesn't fit with the known history of Jesus, or his New Testament description - as well as that of his character - and so it can't possibly be about him.
But if the prophecy is about the messiah, it's about a true one, not a false.
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim Another thing, one needs to see the entire text of the Psalm 22 to understand why this was reported as another proof of Jesus the Messiah. There are many interpretations of what happened at this point but if one presupposes that Jesus was indeed the Messiah one can also presuppose that God embodied wouldn't have fear of death 3 days before he defeated it.
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama Okay, I just read Psalm 22. Twice. Nothing at all about the messiah there. I'm sure lots and lots of Jews read it from start to end to express their plight, Just like Jesus, the Jew, on the cross, and no one ever accused them of aspiring to divinity or even to a divinely ordained fate.
moshehim 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama
Once again, I'm not quite sure how you got from the beginning of your post to its end, or what you actually meant to say. But if I understand your argument, Jesus was indeed afraid, so much so that he called to God in despair. So doesn't it prove he had no expectation to survive the ordeal? I'm sure he saw thousands of other crucified Jews, and had no notion his fate would be any different.
So I don't understand - are you trying to say Jesus was embodying God or that he wasn't?
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim Sorry for being unclear. The truncating of thought was induced by the limitations of the forum. To reiterate: Everything you have claimed is based on your own assumptions, worldview and belief. No matter how you back that up with scholarly information it only expresses one point of view. I was making a case for the opposite point of view that is equally based on scholarly: assumptions, worldview and then belief in the general topic. It was an argumented "agree to dissagree" of sorts.
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama It really does suck to write this way, does it not?
Anyway, I don't see where there can be two opinions here. The quote, made out of no more than three words, obviously begins in Hebrew and ends in badly mangled Aramaic, so it doesn't really make any sense, no matter how you look at it.
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim This discussion has grown into troll-like proportions as far as volume goes...so I wont reply to this post again. If however you wish to talk more, PM me with your e-mail info and I'll gladly elaborate. In the meantime: May the blessing of the Lord be upon you.
ChefNachOmama 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama As for the contents of the quote, I can't see how it implies that Jesus was the messiah. "God, why have you forsaken me" is a very primal human reaction, especially with Jews - like Jesus - and especially Pharisees - again, like Jesus - who hold a personal relationship with God and disdained the formal, ritual-based form of worship of the Sadducees who ruled in Jerusalem (kind of like the protestants disdained the Catholic rituals of mass and communion, and preferred...
moshehim 5 months ago
@ChefNachOmama As for the context of the quote, I can't see how it's any indication that Jesus was - or thought he was - the messiah. "God, why have you forsaken me?" is a very primal human cry. We see it even in pagans (although then it's mostly "Gods, why have you forsaken me"), and doubly so with Jews - like Jesus himself - who hold a personal relationship with God. Even more so with Pharisees - again, like Jesus - who held that personal relationship at the centre of their faith and...
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim opposed and disdained the formal, ritual-centered worship of the Sadducees who ruled Jerusalem. [Kind of like how the early Protestan Christians desdained the Ctholic rites of mass and communion and preffered that the faithfull read the bible for themselves ad insisted they could pray anywhere, not only in a church and through an ordained priest. They faced the church organisation and the monarchy, who were empoweredby Catholic beliefes as god's ordained representative on Earth...
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim on matters spiritual, and his divinely chosen rulers temporal, just as the Jerusalem priesthood and the Jewish nobility were empowerd by the Sadducees' doctrine. The protenstants thus flourished where Monarchy was weak (such as in Scotland and in northern Germany) or non existant (such as in the Neatherlands) or when the Monarchy sought to usurp the power of the church as well (such as in England). In Judea, the Pharisees flourished outside Jerusalem due to their piety, ...
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim their scholarly prowess and because their ranks were open to everyone, and thus enjoyed the wide support base of the commoners. Since the Romans burned Jeruslaem, got rid of most of the nobility, and destroyed the Temple, where the ritual-based worship was centered, the question was soon to be moot, anyway.]
Anyway, like I said, it's a primal call in the soul of the Jew: I'm pious, I'm worshipful, I followed your commandments to the letter, and yet I suffer, while the evil and...
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim sinful prosper. It's a basic human thing, one of the stages of dealing with grief is "why is it happening to me?". Being Jewish and religeousm the question is thus turned to God rather than being channeled internaly.
What is more to the point, however, is that the personal relationship of Jew and their god is so close that often the call of "God, why have you forsaken me" is exchanged with "father! Why have ou forsaken me?" It's common with many Jews through the ages, ...
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim especially those with leanings towards mysticism, less so with those leaning towards rationalism of the beliefe, as mainstream Judaism was for centuries. Jesus reputably was heavy on the mystical side of religeon, so "father" would be in place. Especially if he was actually - or at least believed he was - the son of God, as the Catholics claimed. That he didn't say "father" serves to prove that he wasn't really, or at least didn't see himself as one, [as some early Christian sects...
moshehim 5 months ago
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@moshehim especially those with leanings towards mysticism, less so with those leaning towards rationalism of the beliefe, as mainstream Judaism was for centuries. Jesus reputably was heavy on the mystical side of religeon, so "father" would be in place. Especially if he was actually - or at least believed he was - the son of God, as the Catholics claimed. That he didn't say "father" serves to prove that he wasn't really, or at least didn't see himself as one, [as some early Christian sects...
moshehim 5 months ago
@moshehim claimed, and were subsequently denounced by the Roman Catholics as heretics and violently oppressed. (Others yet claimed he was adopted in his thirties, not born to God. Their followers were persecuted by the Catholics and Byzantines alike as well.)]
otherwise he would definitely be using "father" on that occssion.
moshehim 5 months ago
jel to sestra pjeva s njom?
sjećam se da su bile slične....
tmvukov 1 year ago
have you ever felt this way, that God has abandoned you? just remember the promise
Hebrews 13:5-6 (King James Version) 5Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. 6So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
God is always with you and will never leave you barren. may God grace and peace always fill your hearts with his Love.
jordan32902 1 year ago
divota..koje lipi glasovi
marcellotebaldi 1 year ago 2
Man, I wish I had a voice like that.
KiraWei1 1 year ago 2
bože moj, bože moj, zašto si me ostavio..?
SvenskGusse 1 year ago 2
Known
Lorrybuehler 1 year ago
like the song just wish didnt get cut short
YAHRAZ777 1 year ago 2
hvala ..dugo vec trazim cijelu pijesmu :)
thx!
littleMissTrouble10 1 year ago
poslusajte cijelu pijesmu na Tatiana* Tajci * Eli Eli* I Thirst
zoggo2 1 year ago
super. tko je djevojka koja je zapocela pjevanje. fenomenalno
zoggo2 1 year ago
@zoggo2, Sanja Matejaš, mlađa sestra.
MrOpacupa 1 year ago
super. tko je djevojka koja je zapocela pjevanje. fenomenalno
zoggo2 1 year ago
Prelijepo. Tako skladno...jednostavno...savrseno su otpjevale..:)
Natasha0music 1 year ago
Prelijepo.
Natasha0music 1 year ago
beautiful...thanks...bravo Tajči...
krisses100 1 year ago
hebrew words r moving, also this song is all about mythology on a poor jewish boy who went on a suiecide mission
shayshalom 1 year ago
You truly sing the Eli Eli from the botom of your heart girl. Thank you Thank you with all the rspects
Shohreh
SuperBrain2010 1 year ago
You truly sing the Eli Eli from the botom of your heart girl. Thank you Thank you with all the erspects
Shohreh
SuperBrain2010 1 year ago
Tatjana Matejas-Tajci (born in Croatia- ExYugoslavian republic). Thanks for this video.
domy95cro 2 years ago
Comment removed
ZARML 2 years ago
Thank you
NezrinGunel1 2 years ago
Steta sto ovaj prateci tekst koji je na hebrejskom nije dobro preveden. Potpuno pogresno...inace dobro su one to smislile
pufena 2 years ago
istina, samo što ni to nije hebrejski već aramejski, veoma sličan tj. bratski jezik hebrejskome. inace se slažem s tobom uglavnom, Neka te Hrist sačuva od zla :)
Slovjan 2 years ago
ma da li si ti siguran u to posto ja govorim hebrejski a i ta pjesma je u izraelu interpretirana od strane makar jos 5 pevaca
pufena 2 years ago
izvini ako sam pogrešio, neznam kakav je moderni hebrejski, ali znam da su ti djelovi u Novom Zavjetu jedini koji su pisani u aramejskom jeziku, ostalo je sve grčko u izvorniku naravno, barem tako na teologiji uče.
Slovjan 2 years ago
uz to nisam se došao svađati, i još nešto, ako toliko znaš hebrejski, zamolio bih te ili vas, za uslugu, možete li mi reči gdje ga mogu počet učiti preko interneta besplatno, ili bi me vi bili voljni podučavati, pošto me iznimno interesira? hvala
Slovjan 2 years ago
Nisam ni ja tu da se svadjam i diskusija na neku temu ne znaci automatski i sukob...
Ja na zalost nemam vise vremena za poducavanje, a uciti hebrejski preko interneta je meni barem nezamislivo-pismo je znakovno a slova ima samo 21 u pisanom obliku a 34 u govornom tako da...Ali ako zelite reci mi u kom gradu zivis pa bih te mogla uputiti na neku skolu ili kurs.
Sa postovanjem ve she Elohim ishmor aleha.
pufena 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Tajci's sister is a better singer & more talented. Tatiana is just ugly & trying to be pretty and seductive by singing. This has no place in church. Other videos of Tatiana in her youth show her to be very sluty.
Henok30 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
idiot
victor0711 2 years ago
she was not, but even if she would be, do you not know what Jesus had done and sayd to Miriamne of Magdala ?
Slovjan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ovo bi možda i valjalo da malo poradi i ukine taj svoj slavenski naglasak kad pjeva na engleskom.
atsinumok 2 years ago
sUPPER. gOD Bless !!!
PavelAndrian 2 years ago 2
samo tako nastavi, sestro u Kristu!
eliasleobold 2 years ago 3
I get chills when I listen to this! Wish you had the whole song. Absolutely BEAUTIFUL!
SpaghettiWstrnGrl 2 years ago 13
So beautiful!!
Čudovito!
Bonkua 2 years ago 3
great!!
paskojilaje 2 years ago
tajci je super :)
obozavam je .. jeli ima negdje citava pjesma ?
littleMissTrouble10 2 years ago
@littleMissTrouble10 Tatiana* Tajci * Eli Eli* I Thirst
zoggo2 1 year ago
where can i find whole version, i dont like this song, i LOVE it. please post whole version.
kasdkn 2 years ago 2
they came to my school/parish to sing and it was awesome
shelbsterlollol 3 years ago
Without taking the skills of Tajci out.What 's the name of the first singer that appear on this video? Her voice is terrific.
fernandob77 3 years ago
She is Tajci's sister. :)
hiddenbygrace 2 years ago
yes
damislav 3 years ago
She's coming to our church in Indiana, should I go see her concert?
greysanatomyfreak101 3 years ago 2
Tajci come back here :( its too late
LokoMn 3 years ago
welcome. I you wish to know there resedence is in ohio either cincinatti or cleveland I think.
They do travel around though and have played venues that are the size of thousands to churches that seat if even a hundred. And no she has not forgot her homeland. she talks about it during her concerts and how it was growing up and how she spent her fortune as a mega star trying to promote peace during the civil war in her homeland.
Now, she is a christian singer that travels with her family
manga12 3 years ago
do anyone of you knows, where can i get the full dvd version??? god bless this planet
israeltown 3 years ago
um try the cameron productions website, or go to one of her concerts if they come to your area,
manga12 3 years ago
thanks
israeltown 3 years ago
Blessings from God on you and your family. <3 Thank you for praising Jesus in a way that draws us all closer. :)
elewho 3 years ago
ma ljudi kakve gluposti to vi buljezgate. Žena se ocito okrenula vjeri te ju shvaca onako kako vjeru treba shvatiti. Ne onako kako se kod nas prezentira - kao simbol pripadnosti naroda. Mi smo uspjeli Boga poniziti. I cemu da se ona vrati? Ljudima koji nas javno lažu i kradu sa križem oko vrata? Ne bi se ni ja vratio. Doduše baš kontra, odlazim uskoro i dok su mi roditelji živi vracam se samo zbog njih. Dosta mi je više ovog brdovitog Balkana.
dakakdane 3 years ago 33
@dakakdane Bato bolje nisi mogao srociti
zoggo2 1 year ago
@dakakdane potpuno ista situacija i u "komsiluku "
sashaputin1 1 year ago
Tajci, please don't forget your home and that we miss you very much. Your country always has and always will love you very much! Please come back to your home....
BlondeButterfly 3 years ago 3
SVAKA CAST PJESMA JE SUPER
tahirhasani 3 years ago
Ugodno sam iznenađena ovako školovanim glasom, Tajči! Svaka, ali baš svaka čast!
Nama u Hrvatskoj jako nedostaju tako kvalitetne izvedbe.
Impresionirana sam!
floramiaaa 3 years ago 3
Ugodno sam iznenađena ovako školovanim glasom, Tajči! Svaka, ali baš svaka čast!
Nama u Hrvatskoj jako nedostaju tako kvalitetne izvedbe.
Impresionirana sam!
floramiaaa 3 years ago
Tajci, mi te uistinu jako, jako, jako volimo. Nikad nemoj zaboraviti odakle si! Pusa.
Tajci, we really love u. Please don't forget where u from. Kiss:) Don' forget about our little country CROATIA!!!
kloky22 3 years ago
ako joj je ono sestra onda joj i sestra ima velik glas i talent... odlično 'sjeda' na Eli, Eli...
SeveFanClub 3 years ago
Tajci je odlicna pjevacica.
5*****
Bravisimo, que Dios te Blagoslovi.
ZonjushaMalsore 3 years ago
I recently saw this concert on TBN. I had never heard of Tatiana before. What a blessing to have had the opportunity to come to know her music. What a beautiful voice, a true gift! Her sister is just as wonderful, her bluesy melody compliments Tatiana's classical Baroue sound. A match only G-d could make! The L-rd bless them both, and their families!
cheekylilpriestess 4 years ago
they showed her on Trinity Broadcasting? Gee I though she was a well kept secret. lol
Nah just kidding, but, I just thought that they were too harcore evengelical protestent to have a catholic singer on there.
signed Manga1
manga12 3 years ago
Tajči je moj idol!!! ;)
Madonnadbk 4 years ago
what does this song translate as..whats jesus doing there!??
pipposback 4 years ago
he is suffering on the cross, he looks to the sky and asks: My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?)
ytstef 4 years ago
wow! that was amazing!
dayna290 4 years ago 3
Svaka cast!
BosanskaKrajina 4 years ago 5
Vjecna kraljica bivse Jugoslavije Tajci...Kamo srece da se vrati u Zagreb, i da povrati sjaj nasoj muzickoj sceni, da se rastjeraju one glupace koje ne znaju pjevati
BosanskaKrajina 4 years ago 5