Cornelius Van Til Denied Sola Scriptura?Is that Apologetics?

[Jman3000]

according to the first quote in the video, isn't Cornelius Van Til saying that man is without excuse? That no one has a good reason to not

believe in God.

That's what I got anyway

keep in mind that i don't know anything about Cornelius Van Til

[Here4Yeshua]

@Jman3000 I have read much of his apologetic, you are on the right track about what he is saying. From what I have read the context of equal Van Til used was not as this video presents it. It was that general revelation testifies equally to God as creator but man cannot know God personally without scripture, or know anything at all properly. Van til made it clear in my readings that Scripture is self attesting and final, and all things must be interpreted through it. This is a misrepresentation.

[joseph82069]

Bunk

[TheHonestTheist]

/watch?v=fFH0khjgA0U

[pwe5000]

When's the last time you got outside your house and shared Christ with someone? Maybe you should make fewer videos and go share you faith...then this needless vituperation could stop

[pwe5000]

wow. You played the quote, then you said, "So Van Til said..." and what you said he said was nothing like what he said.

[richieneels117]

you have NO! idea what your talking about... make sure you understand Van Til before you criticize him.

[bribera]

Your videos are both selfish ambition and vain conceit -- in the Philippians 2:3 sense. You are not so smart. You are not so wise. Hubris, pride, and idiocy have bested you.

[Raskolnikhov]

Nothing me pleases me more as an unbeliever than seeing the moronic debates that take place in Christian theology.

[Jd311989]

Of course he denied Sola Scripture, it says in holy scripture that we cannot look at scripture alone.

[jbrack95]

Commit this video to the flames.

[jbrack95]

This is total crap.

[devourerofbabies]

Presuppositionalism is for morons and liars.

[Jd311989]

Scripture denies sola scriptura..

[tenplague]

Andrew Bain is totally clueless to the point of almost making me laugh. He thinks he's so smart, but this video shows how ignorant he was. Van Til did not deny sola scriptura. He believed in the need for the Bible in apologetics and evangelism. What van Til is saying is that general revelation is enough to condemn man to make him without excuse (Romans 1:20). Bain is totally clueless. Don't believe his ignorant lies.

[Kenmacson]

You haven't read Van Til, because he never denied Scripture Alone. Van Til said things like scripture stands in authority over the church and it's teachers. Van Til repeatedly defended the Reformed position against catholic theology.

Charles Finney said strange things and you are like him.

[kisstheclowns]

What he was saying, is that natural revelation is enough to condemn you, but it is not enough to REDEEM you. Therefore in no way does he even elude to the idea that natural revelation is sufficient for man to complete his relationship with the Almighty.

[kisstheclowns]

All that Van Til was saying is that man is culpable to Gods law even if he has never read scripture. This is stated in 2 Corinthians 3:2 "you are our letter written in our hearts known and read by all men." Obviously what VanTil is saying is that natural revelation points to God and it is man's burden in a post special Revelational state to seek his word and learn of him. You are twisting VanTils teachings here.

[patrissimo]

I think Van Til may have been confusing natural and revealed theology too much. The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is NOT natural revelation even if the God who IS Triune is. Yes, He did sound like a Catholic, because in spite of his loud and frequent protests, he was darn near a Catholic apologist.

[kisstheclowns]

Have you even read VanTil man? Cause if you did, I don't think you would say something so ridiculous.

[patrissimo]

I have read VanTil. He relied HEAVILY on Catholic theology. He was wrong in arguing that the pope had a priviledged metaphysical place in the scale of being. Catholic theology allows for bisops receiving the punishment of hell. Popes go to confession too.

[kisstheclowns]

Nobody is perfect. But he contributed greatly to the reformed faith. I do agree with his views on natural revelation. I think it is sufficient to condemn someone. Of course it would take the holy spirit to manifest in a man to bring him to the Word. I am still curious as to which of Van Til's writings apeal to the pope as such. The Westminster Confession is fairly explicit about these things. Not to mention the teachings of Calvin that VanTil so gloriously wrote comments on.

[winstonarbour]

Denies sola scriptura!?

[wagboy]

this video straight up misquotes, Van Til says we have a God knowledge but not a comprehensive knowledge from natural revelation, only through the external, or special revelation can we know truth.

[kisstheclowns]

exactly!

[norgeforkristus]

the work of the Spirit is to grant us love for the things of God,

to understand their value. He doesn't give us the ability to read..

...or understand doctrine. You can hate God and still understand

justification by faith alone or the Trinity. Just look at the heretics --

they hate the Bible because they understand it. they don't love it.

[norgeforkristus]

Romans 1 claims man knows His Creator, not Redeemer. While the Redeemer is also the Creator, this aspect must be known through Special revelation.

[Calvin, Van til's aid]

I've never seen a Calvinist make the claim that non-Christians are incapable

of reading the Bible. They simply don't love it. Look at the bored people on a Sunday morning...

[norgeforkristus]

Where does Van til say unbelievers have a "fresh start" in every generation?

I've been a Vantillian for 9 years and have never seen this claim.

The seed of religion does not mean all men experience it in the same measure. Surely those who lunge into drunkeness and sexual immorality are getting a head start on oblivion...but never enough to free them from the God they're running from. Christ have mercy.

[norgeforkristus]

Sola Scriptura, historically, meant that the Bible is the final authority.

Reformed Christians recognize the authority of Elders and Deacons, as

well as Confessions, Catechisms, and Creeds that help clarify the doctrine held by the local church. Solo Scriptura would throw

out such things, accepting pastors, but not "tradition".

[norgeforkristus]

"Albeit in a different manner and not on redemption."

The same God who wrote "You shall not kill" by Moses' hand wrote it on the heart. Both sphere's of revelation, General and Special, are authoritative. You must obey the Bible, and you must obey conscience to the extent that it is an accurate expression of God's will.

Van til denies Solo Scriptura, not Sola.

[wuebbsco]

Hi Andrew, Just out of curiosity, what Christians do you support? What biblical scholars do you think are teaching the true Gospel? Help me out here buddy. Thanks

[vanckirby]

this is a huge misrepresentation of vantil's theology!

[heathac]

Mr. Bain, this is possibly your worst video yet, I'm waiting for you to come out and tell us that this has all been a joke.

[danslamusique]

Regeneration and faith is the evidence of that salvation, which is why we are assured, it is because we believe that he has already accomplished everything for us. I am NOT saying that someone can have faith and not know it. To have faith is to know.

[Bobo9977]

Therefore there are tons of people professing Christ without any knowledge of the scriptures or who Christ is, because they do not even have the capacity to know this. ... So then, this faith, this belief is really an evidence of salvation that has already been accomplished.

This last statement, I think, is connected with your first part, which is opposite of what you are now saying.

Any faith a man has is dead and imperfect.

[danslamusique]

Regeneration and faith is the evidence of that salvation, which is why we are assured, it is because we believe that he has already accomplished everything for us. NOTE: contrary to Van Til, I am not saying that anyone has assurance before regeneration. God must impart faith to someone in order for them to believe. Of course someone can not be a believer and not know it. To believe is to know.

[danslamusique]

Romans 6 makes very clear the quickening act of God.  The quickening points back to our old self where win reigns, being crucified with Christ on the cross. Literally, on the cross.

[ZoaLogos]

Right on!Andrew. Dr.Gordon Clark, Van Til's nemesis, proved him an idiot and heathen. The preliminary replies on your article are typical of ignorant people who themselves have not studied the issues. Calvin stated the vast majority of mankind is ignorant and stupid.

[danslamusique]

Therefore there are tons of people professing Christ without any knowledge of the scriptures or who Christ is, because they do not even have the capacity to know this. God has not regenerated them yet or may not even intend to. So then, this faith, this belief is really an evidence of salvation that has already been accomplished.

[Bobo9977]

Hi,

Here is the truth about faith and repentance and belief.

Any man expressing or exercising faith, repentance or belief without the imputed righteousness and atoning blood of Christ is working iniquity.

All his works are unrighteousness and by default are sin, and anything he does in this state of death he sins yet again. Until God draws aman that man will never come.

Bill

[Bobo9977]

As Paul says here, this is the real issue. Man can say He knows all about God but so what, if he isn't known by God.

Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, ...

[danslamusique]

Bill,

I agree with the statement, "Any man expressing or exercising faith, repentance or belief without the imputed righteousness and atoning blood of Christ is working iniquity.

All his works are unrighteousness and by default are sin, and anything he does in this state of death he sins yet again." These are the wolves in sheeps clothing. But since our salvation in not dependant on works but on Christ's imputed righteousness, our salvation is completed before we even come to faith.

[Bobo9977]

Are you saying that the man in this life prior to being quickened is already saved?

[danslamusique]

Yes, I am. Romans 5- "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." So in God's eyes, yes we have always been saved, even from before the foundation of the world. But in an experiential sense, we are born without knowledge of Christ. Yes, God will quicken one unto the knowledge of salvation in Christ.

[Bobo9977]

But how does a man who does not seek Him nor understand Him show evidence of salvation if his faith without works is dead. If no flesh can please God and yet you say that that mans faith is evidence of Christs work, are you not making the Holy Spirit guilty of working iniquity?

[Bobo9977]

more...

anyone professing Christ prior to being made alive is not professing the true Christ, if the gospel is hid it is hid to them that are lost. I professed Christ while lost, but I was professing the wrong Christ, I sought, I prayed to, I repented to a false Christ through a false gospel, by men who came before the true Christ. This false knowledge was not in any way evidence of slavation but was evidence of lostness and darkness having no light in me.

[Bobo9977]

If a person truely believes, then the incorruptible seed of the word of truth has been planted by God in a heart prepared by God. When this takes place that person will, beyond a shadow of a doubt know, for he has been translated form darkness to light. Until this happens he is still in darkness. What you seem to say is that this can take place and the person may not know it has occured in them.

[danslamusique]

Bobo,

If Christ's work of salvation is not complete on the cross then this means there is more to be done for salvation in the present. I believe that all of the work of salvation is finished at the cross. Thus as the scripture says, "but while we were still sinners, Christ died for us". Reconciliation is finished at the cross, period.

[Bobo9977]

Yes I agree. But...

It seems as though this belief you spoke of earlier is somehow seen as faith.

[danslamusique]

what do you mean belief I spoke of earlier? Faith is belief, belief is faith. They are the same for a true believer.

[Bobo9977]

You spoke of tons of people professing Christ without knowing Him and then saying that this faith is evidence of salvation already being accomplished. Here is the post:

Therefore there are tons of people professing Christ without any knowledge of the scriptures or who Christ is, because they do not even have the capacity to know this. God has not regenerated them yet or may not even intend to. So then, this faith, this belief is really an evidence of salvation that has already been accomplished.

[danslamusique]

Hey bobo,

I apologize for the confusion, What I mean is that basically the "christ" that these people profess is not the true Christ, or at least they may use his name or know certain truths about him but they do not have genuine faith in regards to the gospel because they are unregenerate.

[danslamusique]

the second part of the paragraph, "So then, this faith, this belief is really an evidence of salvation that has already been accomplished." was intended towards the group or regenerate believers as opposed to the first part. Is that better?

[Bobo9977]

So then, what you were describing were two different groups of people, but did not make the proper distinction, thus the misunderstanding. The first group would be the ones from Matt 7:21-23, while the others are the ones in 2 Thess 2:13. Those known of God and those not known of God.

Bill

[danslamusique]

That is correct Bill, my apologies for the mistake!

[Bobo9977]

No problem, I find I am more questioning concerning what a man believes and what he means with what he says, before jumping to conclusions.

I think we are in agreement then.

Bill

[danslamusique]

You don't understand what I'm saying.

A man who does not seek him nor understand him does NOT show evidence of salvation. This does not mean that in God's eyes he isn't saved. Again, read romans 6. Even a person who does not have faith now, if he is elect, that person's sin and flesh have already been crucified on the cross with Christ.

[danslamusique]

This is why I believe in faith alone as well, because God does not give faith to those who are non-elect, only to those who are already saved by Christ's work. Therein lies the problem. There are those who would try to deceive the elect and teach reprobates that they are in Christ based upon a decisional regeneration. That they can will to believe which (in reprobates case) is not done for them, namely, salvation.

[danslamusique]

Satan and Judas ultimately only cared for themselves and they may have witnessed the power of Christ, but they did not believe he held salvation for them. Reprobates cannot believe in Christ as Lord and Savior because they were not included in Christ's atoning sacrifice. Those who were predestined for salvation were also predestined to come to faith in the object and giver of that salvation which is Christ.

[ajrock2000]

I find it amazing that you honestly believe you are saved, regenerated because you mentally believe in Christ. Would it not be safe to assume that Satan and Judas were saved? They obviously believe Jesus is Lord. You are nothing more than an antinomian.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:21)

At least you got the L right. That Lost people have no truth in them.

[TribulationST]

Ok I've had enough. You need to seriously stop straw manning these men. You distort their views and the scriptures and I believe you to be in sin when doing so. I seriously suggest you study these men's views more before you try to critique it and have some sort of response to romans 1 before you hold this up.

[AndrewcBain]

Godnoliar. com/rom1.htm

[ajrock2000]

So according to your LOGIC acrostic? Only intellectual belief is required for salvation? If you truly believe this, be it known unto you this day, that you are indeed lost soul, without Christ. You need to repent and take down every video you have ever posted on here, and get on your knees and beg for mercy.

"You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?" (Acts 13:10)