Ian Freeman & Mark Edge Debate About Immigration & States Rights on Alex Jones Tv 4/4

[kallenfranchise]

Ian & Mark rather tackle things at a state level and secede if necessary

Alex prefers to tackle things at a federal level (i.e. getting Ron Paul into office as president in hopes that it will effect state level gov)

I think the first approach is easier but rather selfish (some people are not able to make the move to NH because of finances)

Alex's approach is harder but it's generous (he is fighting for all of us so everyone gets a free society together)

If you're able, move to NH.

[tetraedronico]

I'm so happy about this debate.. Ian and Mark are the clear champions.

Alex's always with the spooky arguments under his sleeve like the one that illegal aliens end up voting for gun confiscating democrats, illegal aliens by definition cannot vote. 

[1981soa]

Look at this, Alex keeps playing the same clip TO FEAR MONGER. THATS HIS JOB.HES PAID TO BE A PROVACATEUR. LOOK IT UP

[dontblockmedk]

STOP PAYING TAXES. But these guys lost me with the 'competition' BS. The way to reduce crime is to stop REWARDING it.

The 'money/property system' is the ROOT cause of all problems and luckily it is obsolete. We need to make all earth's resources 'common heritage' to all people and create automated systems to produce abundance, then all the wars, crime, poverty, etc. will end, and we will be on the path to prosperity.

v=YxPPnCW6sMo

v=yPmHaTirnCc

[Publik]

Zionists are people who have all the money. They simply have no other challenge in life but to control and manipulate the population of the world. They have no conscience, so in short they’re the wost kind of criminals and they want a world government. What is a criminal without a conscience? A psychopath. Imagine being controlled and run by psychopaths? What would they get people to do for them? Imagine your children doing errands for psychopaths? No you cannot imagine that!

[mcap52]

@Publik But "zionists"are basically all Jews,right?I'm not too educated as far as what a zionist is,all I hear and read is that the zionist Jews are behind everything that goes wrong in the world.Please enlighten me.

[Publik]

@mcap52 Hi friend, If people claim a jew is a zionist then some loser from AIPAC will claim that they're anti-semitic. So to get around that just call them zionists, or zionbanksters. Google: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion explained (1/2). They want a one world government run by them and for others to be their slaves. Probably because they're lazy, inbreed and stupid. Every Best Wish.

[Sogwa]

@mcap52

No.

Believe it or not, there are actually orthordox Jews who are NOT Zionist and nonJews (such as many Christians, etc.) who are Zionist.

[Publik]

Look what the zionbanksters did in Iraq civil war so they kill each other save the Coalition of the Killing just to sit and watch Iraqi’s killing each other. You won't know who the enemy is or what you're shooting at. That's what they want. What you got to picture is that you're in an airplane and if you kill the pilot you don't know how to land the plane and you die in a crash landing. People need to put on their parachutes, and bail out to a free city. Geronimo_

[Publik]

Guns are lethal memes in the 21 century there should be no violence. None! The Military, Police, Prison Guards use guns/violence. If you do not pay this fine they will take your driving license. If you do not pay this fine we will send a sheriff to take your property, If you do not pay this fine we will send you to jail. TV promotes violence, so does sport. Children are entrapped because they perceive themselves as bullet proof. To attack or try to defend against the AMIC is a flawed strategy.

[kahlesstiberius]

like Mr.T says..........."GET SOME NUTS!!"

[seamstobe]

It is mainly Americans that believe competition is natural, but you are referring to animals not civilized humans. It is the elite who propagate this myth to get the minions to fight each other. What I am talking about has never been tried my caucasions but it the main form of organization by indigenous peoples for eons. Believing you have the natural right to be superior is where the evil comes from. Communism has always been corrupted by greedy elites. I suggest you research The Venus Project.

[rialcnis]

Alex is right they are not getting it.

[twn5858]

freekeenecom

freetalklivecom

Go here is you wanna see what you can do for freedom: Listen to Alex if you wanna hear about nothing.

[kcirdrab]

4.20 - 'Hitler didn`t invade Switzerland because they had guns' ... give me a break, where did Jones get these 2 jokers from?

Hitler didn`t invade Switzerland because it was a useful conduit for all sorts of financial trading done by the Nazi regime, & he had bigger fish to fry.

[kahlesstiberius]

@kcirdrab and that hitlers funding was kept there, and guess who gave him the funding, the american elitists!!!!

[philoplatt]

Make a 60' by 21" screw and thread it in that pipe. Spread the news: screw the Gulf oil hole!

[ColdWarrior84]

The monopoly of violence, in political doctrines, is intended to be the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence, ie law and order, as opposed to chaos and anarchy.

What's wrong about that?

[GuardofLiberty]

@ColdWarrior84 Because it creates perverse incentives, that's why it never works out the way its proponents say it will.

Look into the stateless society, there's tons of information out there and videos here on youtube.

[traydog2009]

john adams did not want violence,but this is the only way you weak fucks

[seamstobe]

Competition is what causes all this crap. There always has to be someone on top of it all and the rest below. That is the essence of competition. It does not raise people up but sets them against each other. Your egos are as bad as those in power only you want to rule the kingdom with your own brand of so callled freedom. You raise people up by giving them the means of survival equally shared and contributed.

[rctube1958]

@seamstobe "...equally shared and contributed." Over and over again this has proven impossible and has produced the worst evil. The reasons why should be obvious to all by now. Humans will always have certain problems because competition is natural. So there will be winners and losers. Some "winners" will always act like winning at one thing entitles them to everything. Occasionally, they have to be persuaded otherwise.

[seamstobe]

@rctube1958 I responded by posted it above instead of replying to you. OOps. People that are competitive instead of caring for others as yourself should be put altogether on one continent while the rest of us can live and let live and be able to follow our passions without the hurdles, roadblocks and false scarcity promoted by ego maniacs. I wish you well with your plans as it is much better than what is now. The original Republic was a good thing.

[GunClingingPalin]

ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11154628

[Brulluhman]

If Obama would say that Europe and the USA are the most strong continents I would agree. We have a lot of allies to protect. They want to use violence on us, when they get the chance. That's not having a monopoly on violence. The Islam says conquer your enemy when you can (with violence Ottaman empire). USA doesnt say or do that. It was Iraq that invaded Quwait. It was Russia that invaded Poland. It's China that invaded Tibet.. etc. What monopoly is that Obama speaking of?

[Brulluhman]

USA doens't have a monopoly on violence. Aslong the world exists, violence exists. If USA would have a monopoly on violence, US would be the only one who uses violence. Look at history.

[dubelvil]

@Brulluhman He didn't say that the USA had a monopoly on the use of force. He said that "nation-states" have a monopoly on the use of violence. Nation-states are the modern countries that exist today. Governments have a monopoly on the use of force over their territories.

[Brulluhman]

@dubelvil That's also not true. Look how much effort USA has to take against a bunch of dumb ass Iraqies. It's media that controles the violence. That war could take the USA 1 day if it wasnt for media.

[Brulluhman]

@dubelvil 1 hour!

[Dave102693]

White people are such pussies when the krama comes back to acttack them.

[paleopeneyes]

@GaryHoweliangTan Your comment is too stupid and rambling to actually mean much of anything, but nice try. Unfortunately, you're not the first jagoff to try to replace facts with sarcasm and only end up coming across extremely corny. Enjoy not being a smart as you think you are. Loser.

[SunBeamsan]

AWESOME BROADCAST!

[ScottishAtheist]

Alex's assertion that the Germans didn't invade Switzerland because of militias isn't the real story, Germany didn't invade Switzerland for a lot of reasons.

The area was very mountainous, making an attack difficult. They supported the German war effort through munitions, was an important supply route for German forces in Italy. The Swiss bank was a neural place that could deal with Nazi gold.

Invasion was too costly, they had enough enemies. Hitler also attacked far stronger Russia.

[TomaCukor]

@ScottishAtheist thats whats up and they were in such an important place that even if they dont ally passively they would of get theyre country ground zero'd

[nabuco00]

America is a mistake, a giant mistake.

America is the most grandiose experiment the world has seen, but, I am afraid, it is not going to be a success.

Yes, America is gigantic, but a gigantic mistake.

Sigmund Freud

[ninjabunnyman]

@nabuco00

I'd prefer to think of it as a step in a progression, rather than a failure. America, as a whole, was a great step forward for liberty. It's time we take the next step.

[skichristopher]

@ninjabunnyman America was made by stealing it from the natural inhabitants so to you STOP READING AND LISTENING TO TYRANICAL DIPSHITS and bankers, how do you think the indians feel, they are laughing at your dumb pussy ass that is not standing up like they did, welcome to slavery you fucking moron.

[ninjabunnyman]

@skichristopher

Well that's true, how early Americans treated the natives was shameful.

I just mean that the idea of a representative republic was flawed, but better than what we'd had before.

I don't know how you got to me listening to bankers or not standing up for liberty. I'm about to move across the country for liberty, to assist civil disobedients, participate in agorism, promote jury and state nullification, and run for office. I've already done a great deal on these fronts.

[maryandadam]

Obama says, "You are privatizing something that is what essentially sets a nation-state apart, which is the monopoly on violence."

[mindprism]

If liberty in your lifetime is what you want then head for the rain forest, jungle, or deep desert.

[ninjabunnyman]

@mindprism

I'd like to live in society that respects liberty, but thx. ;)

[MegaDude1969]

And what will you do with the older folks and handicapped who rely on medicare, Social security, etc. Who is going to take care of them? Just going to leave them die out in the street? People don't have enough Christian morals to even take care of their elderly now days, ya think they will have morals in an Anrachy system?

[ninjabunnyman]

@MegaDude1969

The only reason those people are poor is because they've had to pay into medicare and social security. The federal government is a drain -- it takes in far more than it ever gives out, and hands most of the money to its bureaucrats and cronies.

People ARE generous. Americans gave 350 billion dollars to charity last year, and that was in a bad economy. Without the collosal burden of the federal government, people would be far wealthier -- and could give far more.

[1tap13b]

WOW Alex Jones GOT SHOWED UP great debate LOL I’m glad someone intellectual schooled Alex when it came to immigration. i think its funny how people are getting mad because alex jones get showed up

[MegaDude1969]

@1tap13b he got showed up? I didn't think so, the other guys arguments made no sense. If you have open borders you would destroy this country even further, unless you get rid of the welfare and tax system first then 3rd world country of Mexico would basically be part of US and all the criminals would just march over here and take over cities here probably. The states all need to just say screw the Fed government. Anarchy won't work period.

[ninjabunnyman]

@MegaDude1969

The states need to say screw the fed government, and shut down welfare -- not screw the fed government, and institute a police state with complete control over who's allowed to live and work.

I'm with you on states rights, I just think the states need to stand for more freedom, not more tyranny.

[gabiotta]

Hitler didn't invade Switzerland because of public gun ownership? That might just be the stupidest thing i have ever heard.

WOW!!

[ninjabunnyman]

@gabiotta

Actually, that's exactly true. Google "swiss militia" -- or look for "hitler swiss milita" in google books. Free people organized into independent fighting forces are far more effective than central armies. Just look at what the afghans did to the USSR.

Central armies are the modern equivalent of British regulars -- lined up in pretty little rows with bright red uniforms.

Invading a country like the US, with say 100 million milita members, would be utter suicide.

[gabiotta]

@ninjabunnyman

Switzerland stayed out of the war because it was Europes banker. Don't be a retard.

[ninjabunnyman]

@gabiotta

The question was not why they stayed out of the war, but why they weren't invaded anyway. I'm quite certain hitler was quite happy to invade countries which had not previously attacked him, and who had desired peace with him.

[gabiotta]

@ninjabunnyman

I mean that the myth of Switzerland neutrality is just that, a myth. Hitler didn't invade Switzerland because they were the repository of his wealth.

Still are come to think of it.

[ninjabunnyman]

@gabiotta

That makes no sense at all, sorry. He could easily seize the country without threatening his assets in those banks. Again, look in google books under swiss milita hitler.

In any case, the broader point remains -- vastly outmanned and outfunded militas often give centrally commanded armies a run for their money, if not utter defeat. If a milita army faced an equally funded and manned central army, they would blow them away -- it wouldn't even be close.

[paleopeneyes]

@gabiotta Correct.  Switzerland is the banking headquarters of the new world order (at least clerically). This is why the country was left untouched during both world wars. The fact that they were able to bear arms against Hitler may have played a smaller role, but no doubt the former is the main reason. hitler was TOLD who to bomb, by bankers. Just like we were TOLD to nuke Japan by bankers. These half-assed tyrants very rarely make their own decisions. War is the pinnacle of fraud.

[TYSONHAWKE]

Private arbitration and market justice? Sounds like legalised lynching to me. There are people who would have truthers rounded up and killed. What if they took control of your neighbourhood. That guests ideas are a little scary when you think about them. He's emulating the very private justice/prison system we already have but on a smaller scale.

[ninjabunnyman]

@TYSONHAWKE

If the majority of people wanted truthers rounded up and killed, they could do so now through the government. If people are evil, we're just out of luck.

If people are decent, the question is, what's the best way for them to hold government accountable? Voting is incredibly ineffective -- that's not real accountability. Real accountability would mean free choice.

In reality, since most people oppose murder, protection agencies which stop murderers would be far, far more powerful.

[VoIPpoetry]

Alex has done ten times more

than any of his critics.

At least he puts himself out there to take arrows.

[ninjabunnyman]

@VoIPpoetry

Yeah, I winced a little at one or two points -- I'm a big fan of Free Talk Live, but I think they were a little harsh a couple times. Alex has done a great job in a number of ways -- we're all on the side of freedom here. There are just a couple minor disagreements.

[rawtheory333]

Alex wakes people up. Ian and Mark give them solutions.

[frickadele]

Hitler didn't invade Switzerland because the people were armed...

and they also had all those lovely little mountains to protect them.

[WJValente]

Alex lives in the real world and understands deeply what he is saying on this issue. The NWO is taking over and we have two options: a) fight back b)roll over. Sometimes, you have to become War to defeat war.

[docatomics]

..here , try mine : realcanadiandemocracy(dot)net when you get finsihed negotiating who is pray & whom is rowing to shore on this ride of survival gents.

~either by force or willful compliance you are part of what your resources contribute to, or as many a tyrant has dictated "your either with me or agianst"

-it realyl is as simple as stop using electronic dollars & credit for trade representation and the middle man will be no more; the problem with two edged swords.

[AustinW90]

Alright, Jones. You're losing me big time. You need to read some Rothbard, some Hazlitt, some Block, some DiLorenzo, and some Rockwell. Shut up until you do that.

[Jules242]

I don't like these guys. Every time I hear them they make my flesh crawl.

[frickadele]

@Jules242

Why?

[MishuTaste]

If we agree to open borders we'll have the risk of our culture being changed. Meaning: people that don't like the United States could come here and take over government positions. People such as radical Muslims. A true-blooded American is not going to vote for a radical Muslim. But import enough radical Muslims into this country and you'll have a new set of liberty-hating voters!

[asperin]

@MishuTaste

How would the Muslims set themselves in the US?

Getting jobs and opening businesses, which is good for the economy.

The govt positions are a threat to your liberty, whether Americans on them or not.

Statism fails.

[RevolutionNewz]

I like these guys but too many times have heard them badmouth and laugh at some of alex jones FACTS.

[psychientology]

I like these guys. I've been following the Riddly Report myself. Goofy but good.

[twn5858]

@psychientology Great!!!  You are not a Alex Jones brainwashed idiot and can think for yourself.

[airborne373]

Good interview, nice to hear a different philosophy. But time for playing Dungeons & Dragons is over guys. Too late to "disengage" from big gov., it's on our doorstep with a battering ram.

[asperin]

@airborne373

So what you're gonna do, bend over and take it?

[ninjabunnyman]

@airborne373

How do you suggest we stop them then? Don't you think civil disobedience is a very effective tool? How about jury nullification? Running for local office? Agorism? Competing currencies? Because these things are all happening in NH.

[scarmenl]

I think these guys have a good idea but are getting ahead of them selves. We need to get rid of the rot in the positions of power and then shrink a cleaned up and legal government!

[Yesy8472]

great argument... anarchy could work if everyone owned a gun??

[Sideshowbobx]

@Yesy8472

nope, as it would force everyone again to own guns - I would rather stick with the republic idea where everyone has the free choice and isn't bound to your own turf & property 24/7.

[ninjabunnyman]

@Sideshowbobx

Not at all, you can subscribe to a protection agency which would do the same things police do (or should do).

[Sideshowbobx]

@ninjabunnyman

Isn't Government a business which nurishes employees to provide their workpower to creat certain services?

So what happens if they won't function as they should? You stop to paying taxes and rather pay a better provider;)

It only get problematic if this 'business' gets into charge of itself - but then they also deny you the right to subscribe to other providers for the same service.

And police isn't there to protect you nor do you pay them for such, the 'Gov' pays them.

[ninjabunnyman]

@Sideshowbobx

Indeed, one could look at the government as a "business" gone awry, having eliminated all competition and begun employing aggressively violent, mafiaesque tactics.

I'm suggesting that if we are to preserve our liberties, we must ensure a wide variety of competition, because a monopoly, let alone a violent monopoly, is ultimately unaccountable.

Free choice is the basis of real accountability -- this is what we need to restore.

[ninjabunnyman]

@Yesy8472

Not at all, as I say, you'd subscribe to a protection agency, which would serve the same purpose as police -- or, the purpose they should serve.

[tubecfinland]

immigrants = arabs / muslims always

[prussell66]

Private abitration for justice? This sounds fucked. There is a place for government. Just because the Federal government is an abomination doesn't mean we should shitcan all forms of government.

[asperin]

@prussell66

Private arbitration for justice means no monopoly on the arbitration of justice.

The State holds a monopoly on this, you cannot change providers, you are forced to take their arbitration, their services are funded with money extorted from individuals, debt is payed with that very extorted money.

[bubbyslife2]

wake up sheeple

[batmanthe]

Alex we don't need a state to keep other states from taking us over. FREE private Militias , voluntary security associations, and a armed populace can defend a society PERIOD. Military is NOT NEEDED. There have been at least 5 almost completely free anarchist large scale societies in history and they all did extremely well at defending their societies. I have seen from experience once a person comes to really understand this information their mindset will radically change forever.

[paleopeneyes]

@batmanthe "Alex we don't need a state to keep other states from taking us over."

Tell that to the Palestinians, or Irish Catholics.

[ScottishAtheist]

@batmanthe Who were they, and where are they now out of interest? If that system worked, why are they no longer around? Does this not signal a problem for your argument that they protected their societies?

[bizarrejapan]

@batmanthe in the end, private Militias turn to private armies - and then you have Blackwater killers and other war criminal gangs...

[batmanthe]

@bizarrejapan No a peaceful transition of society to Voluntaryism is a major paradigm shift ; once a large enough group understands that governments are not legitimate, people won't put up with that kind of thing in any sector of society. But EVEN if there wasn't a major paradigm shift, a group like that still can't become very powerful without the coercive monopoly of a government (to steal your money) because people will stop supporting/paying for it.

[batmanthe]

Voluntary societies, suffer less problems with mafias and gangs than government run societies do because the mafias have to bribe off a lot more groups to get a stranglehold. Also there is a natural progression toward stronger a foundation of ethics and personal responsibly across the board in free society for numerous reasons far too many reasons to list here.

[DavidValley]

@batmanthe Tell me. what countries have been voluntary societies and why are they still not around?

[DavidValley]

@batmanthe I would agree if it wasn't for nuclear weapons. If the fed did fall overnight who do you think would grab up those nuclear weapons? Power hungry zealots who want to control you.  There is no way of getting completely away from a government. That is why you have to turn the tables on it and control the government. Right now that isn't happening in almost any way. The government controls everyone.

[LetsFri]

Do you mean to tell me that you cant find a Hunest man among you who cant be Bout!!!?? COMMON AMERICA IT IS NO TIME FOR SLEEP......

[TimJanezic]

I don't really know how much government we need, but I think that at our core, we need to establish more of a conservative, independent spirit. When that's in place and everyone pays attention and raises their voice, we can figure out how much govt. is needed, how centralized or not it should be and we can add/edit/get rid of it in real time, since we'll all be paying attention and involved.

[TimJanezic]

(continued) For instance, we should have laws right? If everyone was involved, would we have been able to have prevented the financial looting, or would it have been too late?

[TimJanezic]

(continued) The laws are there to set the framework for self interest to take a path that is constructive to society and minimizes damage to ourselves and each other. Like I said, I have no idea of the size & structure of that framework, but I think if it didn't exist a little.... we'd get raped and have little recourse except for maybe violence. Also, the argument that government must inevitably mean more government is wrong;

[TimJanezic]

(continued) If we were all paying attention and set up the government to be easily amendable, we could get rid of the government when we chose. All governments aren't created equal; I believe we can setup something efficient, transparent, accountable, and easily amendable and everything would be fine as long as we didn't fall asleep at the wheel like we've slowly done for the past 200+ years.

[MetalHeadViking]

Alex totaly CRUSHED Mark and Ian!!!

This is why konservatism is better than libertarianism. The founding fathers said without law there can be no freedom, therefore the people creat a government. + The goal of the Illuminists is to creat a NWO, by eroding the borders between men. This is why they hate patriotism and national identity, it is a firewall against globalisation.

[jaymthegenius]

@MetalHeadViking

Nature's natural, and only form of government is a social Darwinist anarchy. Even though force, fraud, coercion, and theft are immoral, nothing can stop the strong from exploiting the weak and/or ignorant. It is only through morality (and to an extent, to preserve self-privilege) that motivates government to form.

[MetalHeadViking]

@jaymthegenius Yes, I think Ben Fraklin said that only a moral people could keep a well formed government.

[solothyrn]

These guys come off as weasels to me. I don't trust them.

[Shaunt1]

I'm with these guys and Alex. Freedom works government doesn't simple as that.

[slantyrock]

them two guys were weedy gimps, no back bone at all, but i suppose they are better than "the regular" radio show hosts.

[111076tom]

the germans didnt attac the swiss because of handguns???

idiots

LOOK AT THE MAP FFS!!

[MRTTVD]

nice t-shirt alex

[anilraj420]

alex keep these loser off the show

[vidarjens]

SO WHAT YOUR SAYING IS YOU WANT COPS TO ACTUALLY DO WHAT THEIR SUPPOSE TO?  ATTORNEYS AND POLITICIANS WONT LIKE THAT.

[1kingconan]

these two fools

[Stepper11]

No understanding of the principles of human behavior and historic reality. Utterly naive. No conception of social realites. These are the jello like pillars of anarchy.

[WMEC38]

These two guys have a good concept, but nothing realistic to offer. Listen to some other videos of them on youtube. They come across like children daydreaming.

[ncbookz]

@WMEC38 exactly they never give a solution to anything they only complain 24-7

[asperin]

@WMEC38

Children daydreaming because they want true liberty.

Of course, big boys like to have the "necessary evil" ruling them.

[KRiderMan1248]

wow that was somewhat pointless...they just started jumping from one topic to another rather than focusing on a the main thing. In the end i didnt really see a solution being offered or logical points of views. More like every one just trying to plug in there own ideas.

[22CaliberHitters]

Wtf why do they want people to move out of their state to go to New Hampshire for if we can start that in our own states

Don't even give these two shine anymore, they sound like infiltrators to me

[KRiderMan1248]

@22CaliberHitters

good point, they should be saying "hey we are doing this, u can do this back home as well" but they are just silly idealists.

[fourdoorchevelle]

@22CaliberHitters

How many people are surrounding you to fight tyranny? How many people can you get to a protest? You required to wear a seat belt by law? What laws are they repealing where you are? The free state project has atleast 4 members elected to the state house. Which recently got all blades decriminalized.

Over 800 people have moved to New Hampshire in the name of freedom. With just over 1 million people in NH it won't be hard to take over the legislature.

[asperin]

@22CaliberHitters

Because they know that if one state secedes the others will follow after, sort of like a breakthrough event.

[Basicpiviot]

lol my name is alex and i stick dicks in my dick