What is HILARIOUS about those who dont like my observation is that the OLD players used this understanding of ball flight for DECADES and managed to control the ball VERY accurately with it.
Nicklaus says in his video that to FADE or DRAW the ball the only adjustment he needed to make was to OPEN or CLOSE the club face.
This concept REFUTES any argument that says that club face is whatever percent.
Hit a ball with a lot of speed and it WILL start on the swing path. Simple as that.
Overall Conclusion: The percentage that the initial ball flight path is affected by the direction the club face is aimed at impact is directly and severely affected by the speed that the club head is traveling at impact.
A slow club head speed results in a ball immediately heading in the direction the face is aimed.
A driving speed club head results in the ball starting on the swing path until ball spin later overtakes the trajectory.
@Excaliburxxxxxx This info is not correct, the intial direction is not affected by speed. Have a look on the trackman website for more info. The initial direction varies between 65% in favour of face up to 90% in favour of face depending on face rough ness, ball type, mositure etc but virtually not at all to do with speed. If you use the approximation that the face is 75% responsible for initial direction you wont go too far wrong. :)
Uh....sorry , but your illogical viewpoint is refuted by EVERY slice caused by an open face, friend.
Open face at impact = side spin that WILL overtake the flight path after initially being on the swing plane.
I frankly dont care if golf students who dont know any better are letting these 'instructor's bullshit them into believing this crap to further confuse them or not, but OLD players like Nicklaus RELIED on this FACT to play the game for DECADES.
@hitmanhawky Don't compare your swing with Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods. Ever. If your swing was comparable to them, where's your 10+ majors? Don't compare if you can't reach their level.
Thanks for the kind comments. I have a strong request for you. Play around with the face angle. On the way back to the top, on the way down. Try holding the club with a closed face (strong) grip and an open face (weak) grip. Learn by playing. Don't judge. Just try something and see what happens. That's how you REALLY learn, not by just having someone like me tell you what to do.
I like how you mentioned the clubface is king. Right now I am hitting a push consistently. From your video I learned that my clubface is open at impact, and my path comes down the target line at impact. Sounds like an easy fix; I just need to square my clubface to the target at impact with this good path.
@imsuprised actually, you're mistaken. A straight push would mean that your clubface is pointed to the right at impact and your true path is the SAME direction as your face is pointed. If you were to square your face to the target at impact with your current path, you would actually hit overdraws with the ball starting essentially at the target and drawing to the left of it. Your face does need to be closed some - open to the TARGET but closed to the PATH. Push draw.
@ryandavidtrapasso i'm glad you replied; I had kind of lost my way a little bit in the last three months and forgotten the ball flight laws. I actually started aiming left for a fade and right for a draw. I'm going out this morning knowing to aim toward the target, and that it all depends on clubface and swing path.
@imsuprised yes, that would be my advice: Have a target - whether it be the flag or a ridge - and dial in your flight so that your ball should never cross the line [overdraw or overfade]. Makes misses more manageable. Good luck! Let 'us' know how it goes.
For all the times Ive asked this question, this is the first time i got a detailed answer. Just yesterday I tried every possible swing borderlining on ridiculous and STILL couldnt hit a draw/hook. It was either straight or right.Im really hopind your advice helps me. That being said, i whole heartedly appreciate you taking the time to helping aspiring golfers such as myself
......could you comment. There was some wind artifact affecting the audio on the video "The Pro Move" and I could completely hear what sounded like a possible reservation about trying this unless you already hit a hook. Isn't this "Pro Move" simply finishing on plane. I feel hands staying on the circularity of the plane better when I incorporate this into my swing. Any comments would be appreciated. Also, just discovered your site/videos......wonderful. Thanks.
Hi..I'm actually trying to respond to your video on "The Pro Move" but for some reasons, no comments are accepted on that screen...hope this doesn't interfere with the flow on this vid You suggest that this "move" shouldn't be utilized unless you are already hitting hooks etc. I don't hit hooks, either hit a straight ball or an occas left to right shot, however I find if I swing in to out I hit too many pushes and blocks and my balance suffers as well. "Swinging left" helps my finish.
This may be the BEST golf video on youtube!!! Best explanation of ball flight laws I've seen (neat: 3 club faces combined with 3 paths give you 9 possible shots)! Added to S&T, this makes a golfer formidable.
Well f*** me I've played 18 years, been around 5 hcp playing on and off for 13.. and I never knew this.. I thought that for draws and fades you have the clubface aiming at the target !!
tiger said it is all in the release IN MY SWING it starts where my path is going and turns to face angle i bet this happens in tigers swing too. there is a lot of variables in this that goes unseen by some,,, but if you want to draw it i would not try a outside to inside swing path and if you want to cut it i would not have a inside to outside swing path if you want to hit it straight be sure to swing straight down the line with the face square thanks hitmanhawky
if you want the ball to start right of target and draw you need to have a swing path inside to out, if you want it to start left of target and cut you need a swing path that is outside to in if you want it to start right at it yep a straight down the line path,,,, now you throw in 3 different face angles and 3 different releases, straght , draw , and cut release,wow it is hard to understand use draw release with cut shot plan wow better understanding we have easier it is.
Hitting down more does affect the amount of inside-out. If the club is traveling more downward, it is also going to be moving more outward. That's why you can see someone like Mark Calcavecchia throw his divot well left of the target, yet hit only a slight fade with his irons.
@pgampro I thought hitting down would move the club inward or left of target line through impact. Could you please explain how hitting more downward would move the club outward. Thanks
good stuff, works for me, watched it several times to really understand this. was able to hit a draw very quickly, after only a few balls, makes you realize its not always a bad swing just a bad path or wrong clubface angle . THANKS FOR POSTING... if you try this watch it many times till you really understand it
great explanation of ball flight law. i been playing golf with this law for over ten years. im a 4 handicap, i dont hit the ball really long but with this law i can put the ball anywhere i want. this law also applied for playing ping pong.(that how i know because i play it.) my friend always want me to show them how it work but i just cant explain to them.with this video now it easy . thank you.
Tweedle.....I was talking to gawky, he is so far off it is scary....this vid is pretty good, I agree with you, watch hitmanhawky vid on ball flight, he is way off.
@PJRGOLF08 What tape are you listening to? He said the ball direction came off the face and the curvature was due to the differential to the face and the path. He did a great job explaining this!
@PJRGOLF08 thanks for your thoughts, i have played at a very high level for 25 years and strike it as well as anyone, i know with my swing it is how i discribed it . i can set up a test to show almost anything i want on ball flight ,,if it is done on a machine and with clubs that fit, trust me it will start where the path is going and curve to the face angle. it is funny but jack nicklaus and tiger think the way i do . but we all three have great swings i guess that is what it takes good day hm
i think the ball sticks to the clubhead for a fraction of a second so this pulls or pushes the ball to the swing path line not face aim line for starting i think if you had vaseiline on the face it might start where the face is aimed but in my book it starts where the swing path is going and then curves to the face alignment, the spin comes from friction and the friction pulls or pushes the ball to swing path line for starting direction, 100 mph clubhead speed it will start on swing path period
I been hacking away for about five years and your visual lesson was very helpful and understandable I finally feel like I'm starting to play real golf, tks alot
Great explanation. The PGA of America dropped the ball on this one. Homer Kelley got it right 40 years ago! I still have a tough time convincing players about this. Ignorance executing its habit!
Mr. Dunigan. Great job on explaining proper ball flight laws. The PGA of America should be shaking their heads. They have taught thousands of teachers the wrong info. for years, including me, and have confused millions of golfers around the world. Maybe this will help increase the number of players and increase rounds played. I'll spread the word of this video.
Mr. Dunigan, this is an excellent article. Along with this one, I have read several others of yours and they are always very clear and concise. I appreciate yours because so many other instructors mumble on over and over about nothing relevant. Thank you for your accurate knowledge of the golf swing and your presentation.
awesome awesome video. i've never truly understood how to curve shots and so tried to avoid it. can't wait to get on the range to practice these concepts.
great video, it really helped me understand why when i try to draw the ball,. meaning it would start at the target and curve away from it. i would try to swing more in to out and the worse it would get.. which brings me to a ? i know that swinging extremely from the inside will put more spin on the ball , but seems to me the only way to have a chance to leave the club face slighty between the target line and path line. the closer you get the lines together the more chance of pushing it or pullit
Fantastic video! I had been using the old ball flight rules for so long, that didn't work, that I quit trying to curve the ball. With your clear explanation, I can move the ball left or right as needed. Thanks so much!!!
Great video! Where can I get that attachment that you used to demonstrate the face angle? Also, how does flipping/ loss of flying wedge affect the face angle? Thanks.
What is HILARIOUS about those who dont like my observation is that the OLD players used this understanding of ball flight for DECADES and managed to control the ball VERY accurately with it.
Nicklaus says in his video that to FADE or DRAW the ball the only adjustment he needed to make was to OPEN or CLOSE the club face.
This concept REFUTES any argument that says that club face is whatever percent.
Hit a ball with a lot of speed and it WILL start on the swing path. Simple as that.
Excaliburxxxxxx 2 months ago
Again.
A slow club head speed results in a ball immediately heading in the direction the face is aimed.
A driving speed club head results in the ball starting on the swing path until ball spin later overtakes the trajectory.
For you players who are interested in PROVING the above open your clubface at address.
Do this twice.
The first time take a 1/4 swing like your chipping the ball.
The second time take a full 100% speed swing.
1. Goes directly right
2. starts straight THEN SLICES .
Excaliburxxxxxx 2 months ago
What *I* have concluded about ball flight.
Overall Conclusion: The percentage that the initial ball flight path is affected by the direction the club face is aimed at impact is directly and severely affected by the speed that the club head is traveling at impact.
A slow club head speed results in a ball immediately heading in the direction the face is aimed.
A driving speed club head results in the ball starting on the swing path until ball spin later overtakes the trajectory.
Excaliburxxxxxx 3 months ago
@Excaliburxxxxxx This info is not correct, the intial direction is not affected by speed. Have a look on the trackman website for more info. The initial direction varies between 65% in favour of face up to 90% in favour of face depending on face rough ness, ball type, mositure etc but virtually not at all to do with speed. If you use the approximation that the face is 75% responsible for initial direction you wont go too far wrong. :)
gordonmorrisongolf 3 months ago
@gordonmorrisongolf
Uh....sorry , but your illogical viewpoint is refuted by EVERY slice caused by an open face, friend.
Open face at impact = side spin that WILL overtake the flight path after initially being on the swing plane.
I frankly dont care if golf students who dont know any better are letting these 'instructor's bullshit them into believing this crap to further confuse them or not, but OLD players like Nicklaus RELIED on this FACT to play the game for DECADES.
Excaliburxxxxxx 2 months ago
Comment removed
Excaliburxxxxxx 3 months ago
@hitmanhawky Don't compare your swing with Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods. Ever. If your swing was comparable to them, where's your 10+ majors? Don't compare if you can't reach their level.
TheGolfdu 3 months ago
To all:
Thanks for the kind comments. I have a strong request for you. Play around with the face angle. On the way back to the top, on the way down. Try holding the club with a closed face (strong) grip and an open face (weak) grip. Learn by playing. Don't judge. Just try something and see what happens. That's how you REALLY learn, not by just having someone like me tell you what to do.
John
pgampro 4 months ago
One of the best videos of this kind. Thank for posting it.
dvskid 6 months ago
awesome vid, thanks for sharing. Always thought it was the other way around (the path controlled the takeoff)
kmfaessl 6 months ago
it helped me. txs
CaptainAndrewWiggins 8 months ago
This is probably the most helpful video I have ever watched.
imsuprised 9 months ago
I like how you mentioned the clubface is king. Right now I am hitting a push consistently. From your video I learned that my clubface is open at impact, and my path comes down the target line at impact. Sounds like an easy fix; I just need to square my clubface to the target at impact with this good path.
imsuprised 9 months ago
@imsuprised actually, you're mistaken. A straight push would mean that your clubface is pointed to the right at impact and your true path is the SAME direction as your face is pointed. If you were to square your face to the target at impact with your current path, you would actually hit overdraws with the ball starting essentially at the target and drawing to the left of it. Your face does need to be closed some - open to the TARGET but closed to the PATH. Push draw.
ryandavidtrapasso 6 months ago
@ryandavidtrapasso i'm glad you replied; I had kind of lost my way a little bit in the last three months and forgotten the ball flight laws. I actually started aiming left for a fade and right for a draw. I'm going out this morning knowing to aim toward the target, and that it all depends on clubface and swing path.
imsuprised 6 months ago
@imsuprised yes, that would be my advice: Have a target - whether it be the flag or a ridge - and dial in your flight so that your ball should never cross the line [overdraw or overfade]. Makes misses more manageable. Good luck! Let 'us' know how it goes.
ryandavidtrapasso 6 months ago
What the hell was that shadow moving on 4:09-4:15? Looked like an underwater creature!!!
piccalocb 10 months ago
For all the times Ive asked this question, this is the first time i got a detailed answer. Just yesterday I tried every possible swing borderlining on ridiculous and STILL couldnt hit a draw/hook. It was either straight or right.Im really hopind your advice helps me. That being said, i whole heartedly appreciate you taking the time to helping aspiring golfers such as myself
remmy100 1 year ago
......could you comment. There was some wind artifact affecting the audio on the video "The Pro Move" and I could completely hear what sounded like a possible reservation about trying this unless you already hit a hook. Isn't this "Pro Move" simply finishing on plane. I feel hands staying on the circularity of the plane better when I incorporate this into my swing. Any comments would be appreciated. Also, just discovered your site/videos......wonderful. Thanks.
vjwmd 1 year ago
Hi..I'm actually trying to respond to your video on "The Pro Move" but for some reasons, no comments are accepted on that screen...hope this doesn't interfere with the flow on this vid You suggest that this "move" shouldn't be utilized unless you are already hitting hooks etc. I don't hit hooks, either hit a straight ball or an occas left to right shot, however I find if I swing in to out I hit too many pushes and blocks and my balance suffers as well. "Swinging left" helps my finish.
vjwmd 1 year ago
This may be the BEST golf video on youtube!!! Best explanation of ball flight laws I've seen (neat: 3 club faces combined with 3 paths give you 9 possible shots)! Added to S&T, this makes a golfer formidable.
sonicdeviant 1 year ago
Well f*** me I've played 18 years, been around 5 hcp playing on and off for 13.. and I never knew this.. I thought that for draws and fades you have the clubface aiming at the target !!
iFreak81 1 year ago
tiger said it is all in the release IN MY SWING it starts where my path is going and turns to face angle i bet this happens in tigers swing too. there is a lot of variables in this that goes unseen by some,,, but if you want to draw it i would not try a outside to inside swing path and if you want to cut it i would not have a inside to outside swing path if you want to hit it straight be sure to swing straight down the line with the face square thanks hitmanhawky
hitmanhawky 1 year ago
@hitmanhawky You need to get on a trackman, you'll be amazed at how wrong you are.
FlushContact 1 year ago
Comment removed
hitmanhawky 1 year ago
if you want the ball to start right of target and draw you need to have a swing path inside to out, if you want it to start left of target and cut you need a swing path that is outside to in if you want it to start right at it yep a straight down the line path,,,, now you throw in 3 different face angles and 3 different releases, straght , draw , and cut release,wow it is hard to understand use draw release with cut shot plan wow better understanding we have easier it is.
hitmanhawky 1 year ago
Hitting down more does affect the amount of inside-out. If the club is traveling more downward, it is also going to be moving more outward. That's why you can see someone like Mark Calcavecchia throw his divot well left of the target, yet hit only a slight fade with his irons.
pgampro 1 year ago
@pgampro I thought hitting down would move the club inward or left of target line through impact. Could you please explain how hitting more downward would move the club outward. Thanks
MrAverymay 1 year ago
good stuff, works for me, watched it several times to really understand this. was able to hit a draw very quickly, after only a few balls, makes you realize its not always a bad swing just a bad path or wrong clubface angle . THANKS FOR POSTING... if you try this watch it many times till you really understand it
sulakleo 1 year ago
great explanation of ball flight law. i been playing golf with this law for over ten years. im a 4 handicap, i dont hit the ball really long but with this law i can put the ball anywhere i want. this law also applied for playing ping pong.(that how i know because i play it.) my friend always want me to show them how it work but i just cant explain to them.with this video now it easy . thank you.
MrAsiangolf 1 year ago
Tweedle.....I was talking to gawky, he is so far off it is scary....this vid is pretty good, I agree with you, watch hitmanhawky vid on ball flight, he is way off.
PJRGOLF08 1 year ago
hawky, are you serious? You should do some research, manzella has a great vid up on you tune of the D Plane and ball flight laws.
And, so you know, and all other know as well, the ball starts more to where the face is pointed during the time of maximum compression.
It does not start on the path and curve to the face.
Hawky, your manual is wrong. The more you post on here that the ball starts on the path, the more people are reading incorrect information.
PJRGOLF08 1 year ago
@PJRGOLF08 What tape are you listening to? He said the ball direction came off the face and the curvature was due to the differential to the face and the path. He did a great job explaining this!
tweedledf 1 year ago
@PJRGOLF08 thanks for your thoughts, i have played at a very high level for 25 years and strike it as well as anyone, i know with my swing it is how i discribed it . i can set up a test to show almost anything i want on ball flight ,,if it is done on a machine and with clubs that fit, trust me it will start where the path is going and curve to the face angle. it is funny but jack nicklaus and tiger think the way i do . but we all three have great swings i guess that is what it takes good day hm
hitmanhawky 1 year ago
i think the ball sticks to the clubhead for a fraction of a second so this pulls or pushes the ball to the swing path line not face aim line for starting i think if you had vaseiline on the face it might start where the face is aimed but in my book it starts where the swing path is going and then curves to the face alignment, the spin comes from friction and the friction pulls or pushes the ball to swing path line for starting direction, 100 mph clubhead speed it will start on swing path period
hitmanhawky 1 year ago
I been hacking away for about five years and your visual lesson was very helpful and understandable I finally feel like I'm starting to play real golf, tks alot
mrcvote 1 year ago
Great explanation. The PGA of America dropped the ball on this one. Homer Kelley got it right 40 years ago! I still have a tough time convincing players about this. Ignorance executing its habit!
bobscottjnr 1 year ago
excellent, that really put it into perspective for me, and it totally made sense to me
skeetersbiscuits 1 year ago
I am looking forward to many teaching pros watching the video and passing on to their students.
excellent presentation great Job!
Tyler Theberge
tylertheberge1973 1 year ago
Thank you all for your great comments. I appreciate the support very much.
JD
pgampro 1 year ago
@pgampro does the angle down into the ball matter??
peaychris 1 year ago
Mr. Dunigan. Great job on explaining proper ball flight laws. The PGA of America should be shaking their heads. They have taught thousands of teachers the wrong info. for years, including me, and have confused millions of golfers around the world. Maybe this will help increase the number of players and increase rounds played. I'll spread the word of this video.
trouillard 1 year ago
Mr. Dunigan, this is an excellent article. Along with this one, I have read several others of yours and they are always very clear and concise. I appreciate yours because so many other instructors mumble on over and over about nothing relevant. Thank you for your accurate knowledge of the golf swing and your presentation.
dlytle100 1 year ago
Good video. Well explained.
itubeutude 1 year ago
excellent video, love the visual!
jacksonlui 1 year ago
make sense, and great video
2009willwill 2 years ago
John, this was just fantastic. The best explanation of the "new" ball flight laws I've heard. Thanks!
trapsmv9 2 years ago
Well put
Theoneputter 2 years ago
Awesome Information, John. It is a shame how many people don't know this.
rrud13 2 years ago
awesome awesome video. i've never truly understood how to curve shots and so tried to avoid it. can't wait to get on the range to practice these concepts.
kyldo007 2 years ago
great video, it really helped me understand why when i try to draw the ball,. meaning it would start at the target and curve away from it. i would try to swing more in to out and the worse it would get.. which brings me to a ? i know that swinging extremely from the inside will put more spin on the ball , but seems to me the only way to have a chance to leave the club face slighty between the target line and path line. the closer you get the lines together the more chance of pushing it or pullit
fall4tf 2 years ago
Fantastic video! I had been using the old ball flight rules for so long, that didn't work, that I quit trying to curve the ball. With your clear explanation, I can move the ball left or right as needed. Thanks so much!!!
DanL50 2 years ago
great video,keep them coming.I've been looking for this,very much appreciated.
wh0a510 2 years ago
Great video! Where can I get that attachment that you used to demonstrate the face angle? Also, how does flipping/ loss of flying wedge affect the face angle? Thanks.
jasminesdad0401 2 years ago
it's called a lie angle tool. Golf around the world will have them.
pgampro 2 years ago
keep em coming.
lonewolfx7x 2 years ago