Relating to Sinners

[LeahrRay]

One more thing to add, these problems are IN the church as well; alcoholism, drug addiction, porn addiction etc so the topics are RELEVANT to preach on. And they NEED to hear from their pastors about these issues they don't need to be swept under the rug and everyone pretend they dont exist in the church because THEY DO. And more churches should have ministries to help these ppl come out of those things. It IS relevant to seek understanding, esp if you dont have first hand understanding of them

[LeahrRay]

And btw tithing is biblical, as is supporting the pastor and his family. We benefit from the church and sermons so we should gladly tithe to our pastors and if God so lays it on your hear give donations for certain ministries which are imporatant to you. How else can the church sustain itself? Yes cults make people *pay money* (wouldnt call it a tithe tho) but that is different than biblical tithing and giving. We should willingly give to God bc he gives to us ALL we have in the first place.

[LeahrRay]

Thank God for those who are called to do this bc as he says these ppl are not seeking out a church. But they still need to hear the Word, and understand the redemption and cleansing God offers his people. I also think he was referring to trying to understand these issues better in order to add to his sermons and minister to his congregation. He didnt say he was engaging in these activities WITH them, but approaching them and asking questions.

[LeahrRay]

I think ppl are misunderstanding. Some ppl are called to do this sort of ministry; while some aren't. And from what I've heard of his actual full length sermons they are not watered down. Just because he dresses different than your avg preacher means jack. We should judge based off of what his MESSAGE is. I know his series on Marriage was great for me. The thing is, all of us are called to different areas of ministry and some of us are not called to do THIS ministry in particular (go to a bar)

[AcaiBunch]

I was always told that Christians should NEVER go to a bar to witness to people.

[janeym]

Well he's definitely not a Pharisee. haha.

[Palindrome700]

Hmm....Mark is actually making alot of sense here 

[abbeyism]

"How in the world those people think and act." Yes, go to coffeeshops like a predator and seek out the poor scum beneath you to brow beat them with your awe-inspiring enlightenment, at the same time trying to have a vain vague grasp of how such animals "think". It's the Holy Horse Whisperer. No ,wait, maybe he IS Jesus.

[miking193]

r u serious Jesus Christ almighty didn't understand all people, and only hung with sinners to get to know them? He knew the woman's sin at the well without her telling it to him, and that's why she went to go get the whole town, what weak Jesus are you preaching

[lidgerwood]

He's preaching a Jesus that loved people and related to people. Obviously he didn't need to 'get to know' people in the sense that he did know people's hearts, but, Jesus cares for people and makes real relationships with them- he doesn't just stand on a hill top barking at people about how he already knows them inside and out.

That's one of the most awesome things about Jesus Christ- he took time to care for and love people, in a real way. He had real, genuine friendships with people.

[miking193]

When Jesus over-turned the money changers in the temple, He wasn't trying to Best-Friends-Forever them. So, where you might be right, Jesus didn't yell at sinners, He did yell at the religious people of the day who twisted scripture for filthy lucre, just like your present day Mark Driscoll. You're defending an evident false teacher (a wolf). I'm defending Jesus Christ: the Living Word of God, and the scriptures: the written word of God. Who is right?

[lidgerwood]

@miking193

Seriously? Driscoll isn't a false teacher.He

teaches the truth of the bible.

What is false about what he teaches?

[miking193]

Glad you asked, we made two videos about it. They're on our channel called "Missing the Mark" and "God Doesn't Need Dudes Mark Driscoll". Check those out and let us know if you can defend his teachings using the Bible. We'll be praying for you.

[timeforcute]

@miking193 There is a significant difference between the sins of the woman at the well and the sins of a money changer. One had not heard God's word and was doing what was natural, the other had heard God's word and was actively disobeying it. Don't you know that in the Old Testament, God's wrath fell on the Jews more severely than the gentiles?  Both are sinful, but God certainly deals with them in different ways.

To whom is given much, much will be required.

[miking193]

you're right. Driscoll is teaching another Jesus, that's been my point all along. The Jesus he preaches is not in the scriptures, he's preaching another Gospel and another Jesus. And if you don't know what that means, check the scriptures. What exactly do I mean? He continuously waters down, mis-represents or avoids Jesus Christ's supernatural abilities. The woman at the well -- it wasn't based on a Dr. Phil relationship that He knew her sins, but Him being GOD ALMIGHTY.

[timeforcute]

@miking193 The point Driscoll is making is not that Jesus didn't understand them, but that Jesus went out of his way to relate to them and let them know they were being heard. Of course, since we don't have the same spiritual power as He does, it does involve listening, discerning, understanding and ultimately praying for the Holy Spirit to work through us for their sake.

[miking193]

@timeforcute I wish I could agree with you, and that someone with Driscoll's big profile would be on fire for God, and preaching the truth. However he's preaching now with at Rick Warrens' who is inline with Tony Blair's one faith movement. We've made a video about this called "Are YOu Being Glenn Becked part 1 & 2" Drisoll, Piper, Warren are all part of the false one world religion, if what I'm saying is true, it'll become more clear in a year or two.

[timeforcute]

@miking193 If Driscoll was being "Glen Becked" he'd be sitting in his pulpit condemning the prostitutes, not going out and saving them.

"Dear children, let us stop loving with words or lips alone, but let us love with actions and in truth."

1 John 3:18

[miking193]

@timeforcute thats great Satanist too reach out to prostitutes so do pimps, they all want their money, Driscoll getting people into his church for popularity, or money doesn't negate the fact that he's in bed with Warren, who is a huge part of the one world false religion, your quote about actions, doesn't fit, because Driscoll's actions are to get people to give him money, and bring people into the one world religion, my words, which are a part of action are to warn people

[timeforcute]

@miking193 Bullshit, you just want to hate Driscoll and hate prostitutes. You have no care in your heart for either of them, and you seem to have no intention of following the footsteps of Christ. You say "if what I'm saying is true" because you don't speak from a relationship with the one God who is, you speak out of the schemes of your own mind, driving more and more people away from the gospel and into your den of deception. I pray that God saves you, you don't see your hypocrisy.

[miking193]

@timeforcute wow harsh language, where did you come up with I hate prostitutes? No I don't see the hypocrisy and you didn't show it. If I had said I hate Driscoll or prostitutes you might start to have a case, but I never did. If I see Driscoll misusing the scriptures, which I have countless times, and made videos on this, and I don't witness to it, then I hate people, and am a hypocrite. Now I'm not mad at you, but look at your fruit, this misplaced anger is of the flesh not the spirit

[timeforcute]

@miking193 Harsh language? Do you know that there is harsh language that flows from the mouth of God Himself?

If you think I should esteem your feelings higher than the will of God then I pray for your soul that you would be saved out of the grip of the deceiver.

[miking193]

@timeforcute well if you feel the will of God is to use harsh language on me, then you have to obey that. That's between you and God, as another believer though, I'd advise you that using that kind of talk is not a good habit, otherwise it loses it's effect. True Jesus used a bull whip on the money changers and used harsh language then, but that doesn't give us license to curse out girl scouts when they come knocking on our door to sell cookies.

[timeforcute]

@miking193 You are not a girl scout selling cookies, you are a wicked man selling lies. God save you!

[miking193]

@timeforcute I know Driscoll got a video about harsh language & the people in his cult will then over apply this, or be too quick to use it, because Driscoll said it's okay. Who does the New Testament say to rebuke sharply, false teachers who preach for filthy lucre's sake, who is the poster boy for this Driscoll, on our channel in the favorites section is a great video exposing Driscoll & his money schemes, I Love you and hope you get out of this guys false teachings, serve Jesus, not Driscoll

[timeforcute]

@miking193 You are the false teacher. You are the slanderer and deceiver.

[miking193]

@timeforcute show examples I did when I called someone in error. Just name calling is an adequate way of helping someone, get closer to God. I thought you & the other Driscollites where about relationships, isn't that what this whole thing started about, Driscoll saying the way to relate to sinners & you saying about asking them questions, being in a relationship with them and here you are calling me a the worst kind of sinner "liar, false teacher, slanderer" without any evidence is this love?

[miking193]

@timeforcute if I'm such a sinner how do I know the scriptures better then you? Beings you didn't use 3John correctly, and I was happy to help you with this. If you can't understand the scriptures with out the holy spirit showing you, which spirit showed me the understanding? which spirit showed you, incorrectly? I love you, and hope you get out from the Driscoll delusion, he's in leagues with the anti christ system, we showed you the connection, seek and you'll find.

[miking193]

@timeforcute If your anger was of the spirit it'd be accurate, and I never said anything about prostitutes. You didn't address the claims I made about Driscoll being in bed with Warren who is part of the false One World Religion movement, and reason enough to be concerned, instead you lied and said I hate prostitutes and Driscoll, and that you can see in my heart and it's evil. Well out of your mouth, you have been caught lying, or being delusional out of the mouth comes the things of the heart

[timeforcute]

@miking193 Damn straight this is the fury of the Spirit. Your words speak only devilish slander, not of correction to him and concern for him! If you don't see that, you are deceiving yourself! The anger filling me now isn't the fruit of my unrighteousness, but of yours. You judge one man's actions and force me to judge yours. Your words are filled with the same "wicked nonsense" that filled Diotrephes'. Please, read 3 John!

[miking193]

@timeforcute I've read 3John & how does this apply? Diotrephes wouldn't let John or other real believers be received in his church because he loved the preeminence among his the church where Gauis was. How I'm not allowing Driscoll to come & preach at my local church, I have and would continue to invite the guy to talk, I've written before we made are first videos about him, telling him why the scriptures say he needs to repent. You seem very frustrated but also confused about where to place it

[miking193]

@timeforcute When I said you slandered me, I told you how, you made up sentences and words I never said ie 3 examples "you are saved by works" "I hate prostitutes" "I hate Driscoll" You didn't list one point where I falsely accused Driscoll he's preaching at Rick Warrens, he's written about his support for the guy, that's not slander to say he's in leagues with him, when it's true, When I'm saying true facts about someone, it's not called slander, it's called telling the truth

[timeforcute]

@miking193 God save you.

[miking193]

@timeforcute thank you I hope to God will save us both

[miking193]

@timeforcute I have corrected you several times now, ***You making up that I hate Driscoll, prostitutes, you saying I think people are saved by works, and the 3John doesn't apply*** Know this even though I've corrected you I'm not mad at you, I forgive you, I to have been deceived, I know it hurts to have been fooled, but look up the connection between Warren and the One Faith movement, and then look the connection to Driscoll & Warren, you'll see the clear & present danger

[miking193]

@timeforcute 3John, if anything Driscoll and his supporters have treated me like the apostle John, and they acted as Diotrephes, the Driscollites wouldn't post up my videos, wouldn't talk on the phone, wouldn't use the scriptures to discuss these matters, Driscoll himself has ignored me, they love the preeminence among their church, and youtube land and wouldn't let me fellowship with them, why? Because those in darkness hate the light, because the light exposes their deeds they love to hide

[miking193]

@timeforcute anyone with the holy spirit, guiding them through the scriptures can look at our interaction & see how off base you are, hopefully others will help you see the error of your ways, or if????? you have the holy spirit it'll prompt you to repentance, either way I forgive you, and know, that what I'm dealing with is a delusional spirit, meaning you respond to points i don't make, you inaccurately use the scriptures, & you don't address the points I do make, these are signs of a delusion

[timeforcute]

@miking193 I do not see your heart, I see the implications of your words. I see the fruits of your beliefs. "Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks" - how can you say I could not know what is in your heart?

[miking193]

@timeforcute How is my heart wicked by telling the truth about Driscoll, Warren, and the one faith movement? Something you have yet to comment on. This video is about relating to sinners, and clearly you think I'm a horrible one, how are you relating to me? 1 you are name calling, 2 you don't admit your mistakes when I use the scriptures to counter you point 3 you don't address my central question "Driscolll one faith connection" is this how you relate to sinners?

[miking193]

@timeforcute How do you know the intentions of my heart? We made a video called Jesus Christ didn't waste time testifying to people's sin, or that the world was evil, it addresses this claim of relationships. I can tell you the things Driscoll said where he abuses scripture, and preaches at an apostate anti Christ church, but that's because he's said or done these things, where did I say I hate Driscoll, or prostitutes, I hope Driscoll turns his ways, & helps get a lot of people free Rick Warren

[miking193]

@timeforcute What conversation are you responding to when did I say Jesus never talked about hell or judgment you are listing off non sense quotes. You don't address the points I brought up but go rambling down other rabbit holes, I told you we made a video of how quick Jesus got to people's sin, and testifying against the world, and you tell me where I'm Jesus only came with flowers, and blowing bubbles, singing nursery rhymes? You might as well said yeah well it's snows in NY in the winter.

[miking193]

@timeforcute Man you just keeping spouting off errors, in our videos, 3 or 4 times already in the last month we made repentance videos, confessing our sins, the evidence is there, no where do we talk about trying to be a good person, from our first video I talk about how foolish, and evil my flesh is, we've done videos month ago about how our flesh is a filthy rag, and that salvation is by grace through faith, not works least any man should boast, you are in error, and it's being exposed

[miking193]

@timeforcute Prostitutes I love too & hope they get free from whatever is controlling them I'm no better then them I used to be a sex addict, & porn addict & my actions helped hurt a lot of women, if there weren't perverts like how I was, there wouldn't be the market for these troubled women & men What I said was Driscoll gets them into his anti Christ church & hits them up for tithing like he does to all his cult followers, it's sad They should be lead to Jesus Christ not paying Driscoll salary

[timeforcute]

@miking193 You HOPE they get free? Don't you even understand the gospel? They CAN NOT GET FREE apart from Christ. Perhaps Satan can move them from one sin to another, and thus feed them pride in lieu of freedom, but to HOPE they get free? Do you honestly believe you must be a good person to be saved? Don't you know that's what Paul and James both denounced? You must be saved to be a good person, and that we would be saved while still in bondage to sin IS THE GOSPEL.

[miking193]

@timeforcute Where are coming up with I said people need to be good people to be saved & wrote that is what I think the gospel is you're putting words in my mouth go read what I wrote you're adding a lot of slander unto it thank God it's up there so you or others can see it & this will help you realize your errors I wrote it'd be great for Driscoll to denounce his support of the chief false teacher Rick Warren, & either help Warren get to the truth, or help those he lead into that wolves den out

[timeforcute]

@miking193 I keep urging you towards the scripture and you keep urging me toward your videos and writing... Do you see the difference?

[miking193]

@timeforcute you are full of name calling, and lacking in demonstrating your points. Ex if I call someone dangerous, or a slander, I explain how, and give examples, you just blurt out titles without any evidence. You did quote 3John, and I explained to you already how it didn't fit, and even went against the point you tried to make, I point you to our videos which we use the scriptures in, and in the comment section below, correcting other Driscollites, the evidence is already there, go check

[miking193]

@timeforcute No I don't see the difference, but it's not a true statement, You are not the only using the scriptures, and you've yet to use them properly ie"you misapplied 3John, unless you want to refute that claim" I showed you how, yes Jesus sometimes used harsh language, but it was not his normal speech, he wasn't none for his love, by yelling & cursing out the children. You still have yet to comment on the Warren, Driscoll one faith movement

[miking193]

@timeforcute We made a video called "how we view salvation" it explains are position on salvation, we agree with what you wrote, you are saved by grace through faith, and not works least any man should boast. I think you are so mad, because you can't answer are question about Driscoll, supporting Warren, who is part of the One World Religion movement, so you've turned to falsely accusing me, and coming up with new attacks on me, instead of answering our claims and concerns about Driscoll

[timeforcute]

@miking193 How were you saved?

[miking193]

@timeforcute Ephesians 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[timeforcute]

@miking193 I didn't mean a theological answer, I was asking for your personal testimony.

[miking193]

@timeforcute ok sorry I misunderstood, in short grew up Catholic/skeptic/ in my late teens early 20's got involved in New Age/occult liked it up till I started to get demonically attacked & new the things I were involved in where wrong, or otherwise their be no attack, & I had meet many people witnessing to me about Christ, & one night the attack got so bad, thought I was going to die, had no other choice but accept Christ or die, I called out to Jesus, and he saved me

[miking193]

you are the glen beck of fake christianity

[SinisterUnicorn]

I love this guy. He has a million ways to pat himself on the back and they are all hilarious. He loves to congratulate himself on his humility.

[shellieida]

Repent and turn away from your sin!!! God save people , we don't!!

[cookiedough337]

"relating" to sinners? Why would I need advice on how to relate to sinners? I am one, I know all too well how to be one also...I am a christian, but I, myself am no different than the druggie/prostitute on the street...

[lukemanius]

Cookiedough, if you feel no different than the druggie/prostitute on the street, then I would suggest to you that you need the regenerative power of Jesus Christ. When you truely become a Christian, you are washed (you turn from sin), justified (declared righteous in the sight of God), and sanctified (MADE holy through a new attitude and new way of thinking). This is all done in the name (authority) of Jesus, and by the Spirit

If you are a Christian, call upon that power!

[RealPublic]

COZ CHURCH SUX!

mwahaha

[sullyj4721]

why does it suck to you.

[RealPublic]

Because they are an institution, an organization. It has less to do with faith and god, but more to do with money and power/politics. Religion belongs to the system which controls masses, using people to sort out individuals' business. Mediaval times is an example of where their power can lead people to, giving them their faith in beliveing in something that does not exist. People's blind faith and irrational believe made them do that. Unforunately Muslims still live in Mediaval Ages.

[sullyj4721]

The true church actually is a family of adopted kids. Its a community of people who loves Jesus.

[RealPublic]

They haven even met Jesus, but they love him :-/

[Harrisonkyle]

Mary Magdalene was called an adulterer and I think that to say that she was a prostitute is a logical conclusion, considering that she wasn't married. And SvHsgirl, no offense, the attitude conveyed in your msgs doe's seem pretty argumentative.

[jdfain]

i think I have a man crush on this guy! platonic

[ryannate]

i hate how christians argue all the time.

just love jesus, and figure out how to love other people.

and argue about this kind of stuff with christians you know.

don't just slam the ones you don't know over a video on youtube.

thats not right.

love.

[Svhsgirl]

Um Ryan. I wasn't trying to slam anyone down. We weren't really arguing in the first place. Just correcting.

[andymerlino]

very moving for me, this is what Jesus did and that's the difference between being religious and being a disciple of Christ. If all of us so called "christians" would be less focused on our religious agendas and mindset, we will be witnesses wherever we are and in every circumnstance, instead of being so worried about what other people think of our "nice christian" mask.

[scace]

For all you Driscoll haters listen to his sermon "The Weaker Christian." You can find it on his podcast. If you are going to complain about a man who has brought hundreds maybe thousands of people to Christ, you better be doing something more than complaining.

[prucniewicz]

Saved600...get out of your Christian bubble. Christian frinds are SO important and vital to a good spiritual walk. Still, I'd rather hang out with "thieves and sluts and liars" just like Agnew says.

[crystaliz3dgreen]

Spot on true. The very first person Jesus appeared to after coming back from the dead victoriously was Mary a former prostitute.

Nate

[meowmixremix]

Another lie used to keep women out of ministry! She was no prostitute! Where does it say she was a prostitute in the bible. That's nowhere in the scripture! This has been passed on over the pulpit but it is strictly word of mouth and not scriptural!

[Svhsgirl]

Hey Crystaliz3dgreen. Mary was not a prostitute. The catholics made that up in order to add more character to her story. It states no where in the bible that she was. :0D

[crystaliz3dgreen]

You're right but Jesus did Ministry to Mary Magdalene who was a prostitute. There were two Marys in the New Testament. Mary of bethany and Mary Magdalene, but my point is we need to ministry to all people regardless of what is in their lives. Homosexuals, cross dressers, transvestites. They all need Jesus as much as the next person. Jesus was a friend of sinners and we need to be friends of sinners too.

[Svhsgirl]

Hey..read the bible again. She wasn't :0.

[saved600]

I am afraid that he is somewhat in deception in thinking that we are to go to bars or places where people do their sin. The Lord never went to bars or places where people indulged in their sins. The example that he gave of the woman in porn is not an example at all/ He was not going to her place of business to meet with her or too get to know her. Again I think that he has overstated his view and it could lead someone into a great danger and even a fall.

[Firebird3509576]

I don't know, I think there might be some truth here. Jesus was accused of being a drunkard/glutton b/c of the people he hung out with. In John 4, The woman at the well, a Jewish man would not have been seen talking to a married woman, not alone a Rabbi being seen doing such. Like Todd Agnew says, "I think He would prefer Jesus to the stained-glass crowd.

[GitarrPwnz]

Woah woah woah, what about the part where it says not to give any reason for other people to blame you for letting them sin? You're not supposed to do anything that gives anyone else an excuse for doing it.

[jreighley]

Sin happens in our heart. If we avoid places that people indulge in their sins, the church itself would likely be off limits.

Jesus went to a wedding party where people "Drank freely". John 2:10, which pretty much says most people serve the bad wine after everyone has had a few too many to care.

Don't think going to a strip club would ever be acceptable, but a bar would certainly be fine.

[meowmixremix]

It insults my intelligence that he claims not to know why ppl are hangin out in nite clubs or why they're hooking up! Are you kidding me? Is he a grown man or what? LOL!

[LisaSuperNovaDiamond]

sounds like he asks these people questions to draw the answer out of them and get them thinking

[rizzuto10]

Don't forget Jesus stayed in Sychar for two days. It was a pagan town, no Jews, all Samaritans. The Four main groups of Jews (Pharisees, Saducees, Essenes, and Zealots) disliked the Samaritans and didn't travel through Samaria when going between Galilee and Judea. They cut through Perea and Decapolis.

[ursey2003]

wonderful example, definetly helped me understand what Pr.Mark was talking about in the beggining of this video.