Senna had a gift to push a car to its limit he could take a car round a track faster than anyone else wet or dry, he was using techniques that even still people dont understand, but as a racer he was flawed with emotion, schumacher was calm thoughtful and realised that by being just on the right side of the limit, you will last longer in a race.
From which source you know Senna would have won the the Tittle 94, 95, 96 , 97, 98, 99, 2000 ? Just cause he died somewhat says he would have won them.
lol, a Bit funny your view Theman, as iv every official just had lived for the reason to steal a winn from Senna XD i bit childish that view
Just watch the senna documentary. In his worst state and condition , and not being as skilled, he still managed to lead schumacher right before his death.
@handydudee You obviously don't know much about F1. The amount of world titles don't always make you the best, Schuy was gifted 4 of those titles as Ferrari where at a time so far ahead of everyone. Senna was & will always be the fastest F 1 driver to grace the sport. RIP Ayrton..
Michael is the only 7 times world champion, Senna hasn't even equalized late Juan Manuel Fangios 5 victories. The only driver with at least 4 victories has been Alain Prost. All other drivers had only managed a maximum number of three. I think, there is no doubt, who is by far the best driver in Formula 1 history.
@handydudee You do know that Senna died before he could win more championships. Some of the other wins were stolen from Senna by race officials (as can be seen in the film "Senna") But in his short life and racing career, Senna was, without a doubt, the most amazing racing driver ever!!! RIP Senna!! You'll always be the greatest!
Statistics...very misleading.The 7 world titles might make you think Schumacher is the best of all time but I dont think he even comes close to the natural ability of Senna.Its not even close.You might compare Fangio or even Clark/Moss to Senna but not Schumacher.Ive never been impressed by stats.Im not even sure Id rate Schumacher in the top ten of all time.
I f you watch Schumacher the last 2 years against real competition like Alonso ,Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Rosberg and you see a fast driver then good for you...you seem very well informed about F1...me and my ignorance see a mediocre driver and nothing more...he was good against Hill, Coulthard, Frentzen or his own brother but not against true racers, he s got no chance against them.
the only reason why Schumacher was fast back then was the lifted front nose of Benneton cars...,
imagine an f1 car of today with a nose facing the ground how much slower would have been it was an evolution in design that was adopted by every designer 3 years later remains the standard since then
@xpandia You are so pathetic thinking a driver like him was just fast because of the nose of his car, it's a shame you show your ignorace in public. Gerhard Berger got Schumi's car in 1996 and said it was nearly undriveable and he wondered how the hell Michael could have won the WDC with that car in 1995.
Michael and Ayrton were both brilliant...and let's be honest, BOTH of them often orchestrated situations where they were the unchallenged top dog within their teams, both fairly and at times unfairly (Ayrton himself admitted that he blocked Derek Warwick from joining Lotus in '86 because he didn't want another top driver in the team). But most great drivers do that, it's natural for them to be single minded and want only the best for themselves. Both absolute legends, no need to compare them.
And by remaining "just Michael Schumacher", the Vunderkid achieved greatness equal to that of his idol. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Ayrton Senna, in my humble opinion, no driver like him today, but shall I ever discount Michael? No way.
I think Michael actually WILL win a grand prix. Maybe next year's Monaco!!! Equalling Senna's record. :-) If he qualifies 4th and does some of his start magic and is lucky, maybe he has a realistic chance. Especially if the guys prepare a tiny bit better Mercedes 2012 than the 2011 is.
Everyones quick to say "oh if top gear and schumacher says Senna is the best then he must be!!" Does nobody remember the great fangio? I quote his famous line.... "You must always strive to be the best, but never believe that you are." No doubt schumacher follows that. Where was a young inexperienced Schumacher when Ayrton crashed? Right up his arse!!! Was only a matter of time. Schumacher was a new age of driver fitness and inteligence. Get over it.
@june372 that's nonsense even if I am a huge Senna lover. Senna was the same, that made them extra special. Ayrton never dreamed about being the new Fittipaldi or something...but about the best that ever lived. So why can't Schumacher say that? If you never believe in yourself, you will never reach the top...same with Senna, same with Schumacher and the same with most world champions. (who really the best is, is in the records and eye of the beholder)
@Lexinho90 I'm not saying that Senna was any different. In fact, I'm not even saying its a bad thing. I just saw somewhere that someone said he's not the new Senna because he knows he's worse. That was just false.
lol 2 races into his first full season in f1 and hes already got the confidence to start voicing an opinion to the FIA in the same way the schumi of today does.
@TheMaku5000 he said he does not want to be compared to senna nor is he the new senna. he said that he is michael schumacher and he wants to stay that, you fool. senna was his idol.
@petersims411 Well i can show you a vid where everyone of the new generation says that senna was the best driver. I just loved this guy... trust me, just take a look at the movie "Senna" and you will just love this guy.
@GregorioStyreco That was the video I was referring to. If I may, I will parallel an every day person to Ayrton Senna;
A fairly decent bloke who were to die may have been an average Joe, but once he's dead all of a sudden he's a "top bloke" or "the nicest guy you could meet". The same is true with Senna, he was a great driver, but once he died, everyone called him the greatest driver who ever lived. Kurt Cobain/Nirvana got the same status: They were great, but not the best, like Amy Winehouse.
@petersims411 I could not agree with you more Peter. There are too many people putting Senna on a plinth just because he is dead. He was an excellent driver but just because people watch a film and a couple of interviews they think they knew the man inside out. The real Senna was as flawed as any top level racing driver - he was however exceptional behind the wheel. I believe there has been and will be those who are even better. Good on Michael, he is not Ayrton Senna he is Michael Schumacher!
I mean, to be honest, a popular conception is that late 80s/early 90s was host to the greatest drivers, but that's only because they shone in their era, but now there's much stiffer competition right the way down the ladder all the way to karting, and just because no driver shines (if you ignore schumacher) there's no assumption that there's a great driver, but I think they's all hold their own in earlier eras.
@GregorioStyreco Furthermore, you could tell by the way Schumi answered the question that he wasn't telling the truth about who he thought was the greatest driver.
@petersims411 Mate, i'm not to discuss here anything, in my opinion he was just the best, cause he fucked everyone in the rain, even in 1993 when he was in the underclassed Mclaren... he knowed his cars like nobody in the F1. He spent sooo much time with the mechanics to learn about everything... it was his life. And yes schumi is a very good driver, but the fact that he got 7 world championchips doesnt make him to the best driver.... it's just a record in the cheating age of F1.
@petersims411 He had reasons to, the FIA president himself was taking Prost's side and sabotaging Senna for the last 2 years, so either Senna had to do something or he had to just let them continue doing s**t. Don't speak as if you were in his shoes and knew what he had to deal with...
I gave a single example, there were many others. I'm not taking the side of any driver, I just hate the way people put Senna on a pedestal just because he died. It happens with so many people.
@petersims411 He was put on pedestal BEFORE he died, so your remark is invalid. And I wasn't speaking pretending I was in his shoes as you did ("Senna cheated too"), I'm speaking facts that everyone can find and check up. What I hate is people who pick up something out of context and use it just to prove their false claims.
@petersims411 Anyone who really believes your statement here has no F1 knowledge, If you don't know the real reasons why Senna and Prost collided don't comment at all
@Ferrari123planb no i just think that you are an idiot and you don't know really senna. its pissing me of that people are talking about senna that he is a great driver because he died. Ppl like you need to wake up that schumi dont know how to race a f1 car with one hand like senna, prost, mansell and other does. Senna was the only f1 driver who helped other f1 drivers on the track (like he helped eric comas). Senna wasnt just a big racing driver, he was also a great man.
@GregorioStyreco we cant really say who is better (as they were never teamates) but if it came to a final conclusion, Senna was a better qualifyer with more car control, great personality, schumi is a better racer, always daring to take overtakes, defending his position like no other, driving in the rain as if it was dry. but in the end its only opinion, and thats final.
@Ferrari123planb If Senna was better qualifier, why he couldn't beat Schumi in 93 when he had even better car? Schumacher managed to match Senna 8/8 despite his poor Benneton. Schumi was not new Senna, he was better than Senna. Better in qualifyings, races, rain. Senna was less dirty but that's all.
@CitizenZon3 mmm i wouldnt say alot faster given the fact they had the same engines and benneton were given the latest engines and ford works support... and yes it was an uncompetitive car when the renault engines were 80bhp more thats like having permanent kers nowadays and they had superior active suspension
@vibeackermann They had same engines after some races and Mclaren is said to have more downforce. Anyway, I wasn't saying about WDC. I only said that Senna and Schumacher were even in 93 qualifyings 8-8.
@arturcraft2 is said ? that is just opinion, the MP4/8 which has powered by the same Ford HB V8 as the benetton, however benetton remained the chosen team for the latest engines and ford works support, Mclaren had to by the engines. In terms of racing, schumacher out raced senna 9-7 even though senna won 5 times. however in monaco 93 senna wouldnt have son if schumachers engine had not blown so then it would have been 10-6.
@arturcraft2 in the same car, senna was faster, the only reason schumacher attained 65 poles is because he has raced 125 more races then senna, picture this in 2004 when he had his most dominant car he only managed to get 8 poles ? i think it is better to say schumacher was maybey a better driver but was no where near fast then senna, senna was the fastest driver of all time, the only person who comes near him is sebastian vettel
@vibeackermann Do you realise they never were in the same car so that your statement is useless and absolutely not factual?! Plus, the only reason why Senna got more pole earlier was that he had competitive cars in qualifyings most of his carreer. F2004 was a dominant car in races but Michelin had better tires for qualifyings and that's why Schumacher never made some much poles as the wins he got during the 2000-2004 years. Schumacher in 93 was faster in qualifyings than Senna.
@arturcraft2 of course i realise that you fool, i think murray walker, james hunt, jackie stewart ect will all disagree with you that the only reason he had competitive cars in most of his career he only raced 10 years and he had a championship winning car for 4 years, the toleman ? i dont think so, the lotus of 85 and 86 were to a certain extent competitive however senna had an amazing ability he was the greatest of all time IMO
@Ferrari123planb people call schumacher the rain master he was superb in the wet but i think senna was the master, there are some great examples of him on youtube demonsrating car control.
Are you serious/ senna was the RAIN God! Almost every driver and professional acknowledges senna as being the greatest. Also senna's last race, before the crash , he was in the lead. At this time in his career he was under alot of stress and less motivation, as prost his rival had retired, and being in a new & different team culture, also acting as a engineer cause the car kept fucking up. it was a bad time, he he managed to lead schumacker,
you do realise that he said he is Micheal Schumacher. he didn't want to be someones shadow. you can debate which ones better for years with no results. but Micheal Schumacher is Micheal Schumacher - driver with the best records in F-1 history. you can interpretate these records how you want, but it doesn't change this fact.
@skaloon si senna seguiria corriendo creeme amigo que nadia igualaria sus numeros pero la historia dicta loe hechos que marcan nuestra epoca para que michael pudiera brillar senna tendria que dejar de existir y asi fue ese choque lo llevo a la gloria, en esa epoca se definian las carreras por la capacidad del piloto hoy se gana pr la tecnologia eso quiere decir que senna es mas piloto, SENNA SIEMPRE SERA EL #1
@GregorioStyreco That's what I don't like about what some people are saying about Vettel. A lot of people are saying he's "baby Schumi" or the next Schumacher, or whatever. Even if Vettel doubles Schumacher's records, he will never be able to be compared to Schumacher.
Both Schumacher an Senna were great drivers. I do believe Senna was slightly better, but it's just my opinion not a fact. A fact is that Schumacher holds most of the F1 records. I also think that the come back of Schumacher it's been damaging for him. It's like he has lost that aura of him as a super champion. When he first retired he ended second in the driver's championship behind Alonso, it would have been a pretty good farewell.
In music sports, arts, politics always such a short sighted misktake to try and make someone 'the new' something. Something/someone was then. This is the first NOW. He wasn't the new senna. Senna was the senna. Schumacher was the schumacher. Make your own legacy, whatever it may be
Bum, no one is better than anyone, just every driver has his own strength and ways of driving. Both are damn good drivers, and what Schumacher said here is well spoken.
Go and check even pure statistics, check the 10 years of Senna career and check even the best 10 years of Michael, he is not "the best" ever. You cant compare 10 years of Senna in F1 and near 20 of MSC
@adakar83 ok michaels first 10 years, he had become a 4 time champion, he wasnt in a good car until 1994, he started in 1991 where he only did 6 races. he left to go to ferrari who had a bad car and made it good only did half the 1999 season and yet still he is a 4 time champion, with 55 wins, thats his first 10 years, senna was in F1 for then years. looks like michael is still better :D
Bennetton was the ford factory team, they got the best ford engines. the 92 honda was junk, too heavy and under powered. in 93 Mclaren used ford customer engines which were 2 specs behind Shueys.
You don't know what you're talking about. You have two choices, agree with me (and all f1 drivers, team owners, announcers, people in general) or be wrong. Since you have no clue...I suspect you will choose to be wrong....which is great because Senna fans don't want you on our bandwagon
In 92 the honda engine was outdated...too heavy and underpowered, honda stopped development as they were leaving the sport so in actual fact Shueys ford was the better engine. in 93 mclaren used ford customer engines which were 2 specs behind Shueys. Since Benetton was the ford factory team they got the best engines in both 92 and 93. Your problem is you've only been watching since 99 so you truly don't understand the life cycle in F1. Teams rise,then fall, then rise again.
@ImFasterThanTheStig Shuey is a great driver and won 7 championships but he did not do it against the same calibre of driver that Senna did. Nelson beat 3 other world champions. When Shuey won their were no former world champions racing against him. Mansell, Piquet, Prost and Senna were gone. He didn't beat the best.
@chansen84 LOL, Schumi could win CS with inferior cars (the 94,95 Benetton was not match against the Williams), Senna could only do that with the best car on the grid. Period.
@ImFasterThanTheStig Again you are showing you know nothing of F1 history. The williams were horrible in 94, they had been designed for all the electronic aids...when they were outlawed the car was horrible.....and let us not forget Beneton was found guilty of cheating. They had traction control still in their source code on the car. With a team being run by Flavio Briatore ...should we be surprised.
@ImFasterThanTheStig If Shuey is the greatest of all time...how come he wasn't won during his come back.....Niki Lauda came back from a three year retirement and won a championship......Shuey has a hard time beating his teammate.....just sayin
@chansen84 Well, funny how you switch from the past to the recent situation, because of my points about the past, 1. Lauda was not 41 when he came back, 2. F1 has changed a lot since Schumacher left 2006, 3. He is not motivated anymore, with 7 titles and 42 years. Funny how Senna-fans always switch to the current situation when getting reminded that Schumi could constantly beat Senna on the track, when he was alive.
@ImFasterThanTheStig Dude you need to go back and check the stats...you are seriously out to lunch.
As I previously stated 1992 Senna=3 wins Shuey=1 of 6 races both finished together Senna finished higher in 4.
1993- Senna = 5 wins Shuey= 1
2 year points total Senna 123 Shuey 105 WINNER Senna Get a Clue! I'm not Saying Shuey didn't do well, he did and he did beat Senna in a few races but he didn't do better over the two seasons they ran together.
@chansen84 Dude, you should go back and check the stats: In 92 and 93, Schumi's Benetton was certainly not equal to Senna's McLaren, in 92 Senna had the powerful Honda V12, whereas Schumi had a V8 engine, and his car was certainly not one of the best on the grid. He beat Senna in 92, and with a weak Benetton in 93 he couldn't do it, but was not way behind great Ayrton Senna. For a rookie like Schumi, beating Senna in his first year (with a worse car) and finishing close to him a year later is ..
@chansen84 ...certainly a reason to say that Schumi could beat him on the track. And being able to beat great Senna in your first year with a weaker car, well, I dunno how you call that, I call it brilliant. And LOL about your 123 vs 105 pts. So, great Senna was able to just get 18 points more out of what, 30 races? WOW! Schumi is really NO MATCH for Senna *note the sarcasm*.
@Imwrongagain Bennetton was the ford factory team, they got the best ford engines. the 92 honda was junk, too heavy and under powered. in 93 Mclaren used ford customer engines which were 2 specs behind Shueys.
You don't know what you're talking about. You have two choices, agree with me (and all f1 drivers, team owners, announcers, people in general) or be wrong. Since you have no clue...I suspect you will choose to be wrong....which is great because Senna fans don't want you on our bandwagon
Moreover, it's a bit rich thinking that all people in general are with your opinion, maybe you are too self-confident. "Since you have no clue" lol, standard answer from you. So, if someone doesn't agree with you, he has no clue. So if you favourite soccer team is not mine, I have no clue about soccer, and if you vote for a different political party than me, I have no clue. And LMAO @ "Senna fans don't want you on our bandwagon", sounds like ...
@chansen84 you knew him very well. Anyway, I certainly won't change my mind, and I know that the 92,93 Benetton was certainly not the best car on the grid, and that the Honda engine was much more powerful in a time, where aerodynamics where nearly nothing, and power was everything. But, since I don't agree with you, I guess I have no clue, so by your totalitarian thinking it would be the best to shut up, or...
@ImFasterThanTheStig I welcome debate with people that deal with accurate facts, you don't. Even when you are confronted with actual fact you prefer to believe your make believe assumptions. I welcome different view points and love to be enlightened by knowledgeable people. What I don't have time for is people that live in fantasy land. I watched F1 at this time and saw it all happen in real time...Senna and that era was the best there has ever been.
from wikipedia Benetton B193 It is arguable that it was overall the third most competitive car on the grid,behind the Williams and close to the McLaren, with Schumacher regularly scoring podiums and out-qualifying the single-lap ace Ayrton Senna in 8 of the 16 races of the season. Having a factory engine in contrast to McLaren having to make do with a customer unit gave Benetton a noticeable power advantage
from wikipedia Benetton B193 It is arguable that it was overall the third most competitive car on the grid,behind the Williams and close to the McLaren, with Schumacher regularly scoring podiums and out-qualifying the single-lap ace Ayrton Senna in 8 of the 16 races of the season. Having a factory engine in contrast to McLaren having to make do with a customer unit gave Benetton a noticeable power advantage The benetton was not the dog you claim
@chansen84 See, that's what I expect from people like you, facts and sources, instead of emotional people- bashing. Constructive critique, instead of trying hard to make your discussion partner look like he had no clue. The 92 Benetton was not a dog, but it was not on an equal level as the McLaren, because c'mon, the Honda engine was undoubtedly the best engine of the early 90's. In 1993 however, as you'll also have to admit, the Benetton was a really bad car. It was a miracle that Schu could ..
@chansen84 ... win with this car in Estoril I think. I also admit, that the 93 McLaren was a dog of a car, with the Peugeot engine and it's missing reliability.
@ImFasterThanTheStig I'm trying to find power stats for the ford and honda from 1992, in 93 Senna used ford power like benetton but it was a less powerful version than the benetton.
@ImFasterThanTheStig No problem, all the specs are hard to keep straight from year to year. I'm on the internet half the time confirming what I remember.
They are both great drivers, Having watched F1 in the mid to late 80's early 90's we were spoiled, getting to watch Piquet, Senna, mansell, prost, lauda all battle for championships and the way they could throw the cars around..was awesome. Yes the cars are faster now but it's not as exciting for some reason
@chansen84 Word. Let's finish the war now, as I started watching F1 in 99, and for me Schumi will always be the best driver ever. I respect Senna as an outstanding driver, with all his negative sides too (same for Schumacher), but in my opinion, much of this admiration upon him is based on his death. Imagine Senna loosing the Championship in 94 to Schumacher (which I can imagine very well), I don't think Senna would be admired that much. Michaels bad luck was that Senna died, and many fans...
@chansen84 ... felt and still feel somehow betrayed, that a German took his place. There's still alot of hate towards Germans coming from british speaking people, and a young, successful german that constantly beat english drivers and teams creates a certain amount of hate towards him. That's very unfair in my opinion, as I don't think that this picture of Schumacher is the right one. He cried when he equaled Senna's race win record, that was one of the most emotional outbreaks I've seen in F1.
@chansen84 And this was the evidence, that Senna's death meant a lot to him, and that he's not the cold asshole as the British media always wanted to portray him. But many people only see him weaving a bit on the podium at Imola 94, when he didn't even know that Senna was dead and take that as an evidence that he was cheerful about that. This makes me sick.
@ImFasterThanTheStig Senna was an Idol to shuey, I like shumacher and was thrilled when he came back and I really wanted him to do well, we are around the same age so I would love to see him kick some of these young guys butts. I truly believed he would win again...because I do think he is a great driver.
@chansen84 Correctm you only have to watch his reaction when he equals Senna's number of victories to understand how he felt about Senna. Yes I think he will be back on the Podium soon !!
@ImFasterThanTheStig Even if he didnt know Senna was dead, there was definitely one confirmed death at that point, 14 injured spectators, 4 Injured mechanics & Rubens Barrichello.
so yea, his antics on the podium were in poor taste, in my opinion.
I can't see any cheering there, a bit of weaving to the crowd, a forced smile, but if someone's biased, then he/she'll always interpret such things differently. It must hurt that Schumacher demolished, destroyed, humiliated British teams and drivers in the following years, maybe that's why people like you react as they do.
@ImFasterThanTheStig I watched the shit live so dont try being smart with me little girl
Maybe it hurts you that british drivers are demolishing, destroying & humiliating schumi at present, i know id be pissed off to if my favortie driver was getting owned by people like pastor maldonado hahaha!
1. Petrov didn't beat Schumacher in his first season, Schumacher finished 9th, Petrov 13th
2. Schumi's "2nd career" is his biggest mistake so far, I never said that he is doing a great job nowadays, and as far as I can remember, we were talking about 94 and about his Ferrari times
3. The fact that you switch the topic to a completely different time shows me that you haven't really got any points, same reason why you try to offend me :P Not the nice english manner, eh?
@flipsidedogchop Quote: "Maybe it hurts you that british drivers are demolishing, destroying & humiliating schumi at present, i know id be pissed off to if my favortie driver was getting owned by people like pastor maldonado hahaha!"
Well, he is 42, he has reached everything a human being could possibly reach in his life, so he doesn't have to win races nowadays to show that he is the best who has ever lived. I would be curious seing Senna's performance with 42 years.
@flipsidedogchop And after Mansell's "comeback" you still have the "courage" to laugh about Michaels comeback? LOL!
Do you remember him being too fat to get into the car?! Must have been quite embarassing, after he was declared as one of the Championship contenders for 95 XD. However, making your own reality is always more comfortable than sticking to the facts.
Yea i remember mansells comeback, I remember him beating schumacher to pole in adelaide and winning the race....mansell was winning races in his 40's so i guess making up your own reality works for you, but the truth hurts, so u message 3 rambling messages cos u cant handle it hahahaha!
@ImFasterThanTheStig Michael's biggest problem when looking at his career is he didn't have great drivers to compete against....had Senna lived I'm sure it would have been great battles...maybe Senna wins in 96 and 97 for williams instead of Hill and Villeneuve. The one I thought could have been great competition was villeneuve but after williams always drove junk. Didn't get to see what could have been. Would have liked to see villeneuve at ferrari too
@hlidskjalf666 Your 20 years old, Never saw Senna drive. So you can't make any credible argument. What former champions did shuey beat? Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen....Senna beat Prost (4 time champion), Mansell, Piquet( 3 time champion). In 94 and 95 there wasn't another world champion in the field. In 2000 only villeneuve and Hakkinen, 2001 on only villeneuve,
I respect your opinion, obviously you grew up watching Shuey and he did dominate what competition he faced. I would have liked to see
It´s not about your or mine opinion! Fool. proove any of Ayrtons strenght/greatness with some measure science for f-sake! It´s quite obvious Alain Prost was the better racer of them. quick laps or fast pole´s dont mean shit in formula1 were long-term & consistent is harder.
And yet again your implication statement is that Formula1- "lost" it´s quality and somehow in Michaels carrier. xD very statistic likely.
more likely, is that the 90´s and modern era is even harder! Larger number of people worldwide practise racing > more fast gifted karters > early elimination /f3000 etc > ends up with far more competitive drivers in the grid of the year 2000 compared to the 80´s ! Add also far more equal, some more races in the calendar of every season..... Overall you end up with the same stupid unreasonable thing that Formula 1 was peace´a cake as soon Senna left.
"his sheer brilliance behind the wheel was never in dispute"
"In his last season the 37-year-old driver who had made Formula One racing his personal playground was still at the peak of his powers. No champion had been so excellent for so long, but Michael Schumacher finally grew tired of the effort necessary to continue to excel and decided to quit while he was still ahead - so far ahead that his achievements are unlikely to ever be surpassed.
@hlidskjalf666 Go back and read all my posts , where i compare cars, power ..etc I proved my point well, that's why you are the only one to even post a reply. I can back up my opinion with facts, so matbe the last line of your post applies to you more than I.
You cant deny the fact that Senna´s carrier and titles came in the dominant team/mclaren among constructors' titles !!! Quite more reliable hard facts than your amateur-opinion on horsepower etc.
You cant deny, Michael sat more often in inferior machinery ( PS.there is more than hp in an complex sport as formula 1)
Fucking right you're not
shanem365 1 week ago
he is not the new senna, he is the new Schumacher
Knallpaeng1997 2 weeks ago
lucky for schum that senna was dead.
markfaviere 1 month ago
@markfaviere - blabla.
jigglediggle29 3 weeks ago
Just michael schumacher, xD
SmokerFace12 1 month ago
Senna had a gift to push a car to its limit he could take a car round a track faster than anyone else wet or dry, he was using techniques that even still people dont understand, but as a racer he was flawed with emotion, schumacher was calm thoughtful and realised that by being just on the right side of the limit, you will last longer in a race.
levrone007 1 month ago 2
@levrone007 Have you ever seen how fast Schumacher was? Both in the rain and dry? Don't say he was not on the limit
rosun82 1 month ago
Schumacher the best!
Slu4ainika 1 month ago
From which source you know Senna would have won the the Tittle 94, 95, 96 , 97, 98, 99, 2000 ? Just cause he died somewhat says he would have won them.
lol, a Bit funny your view Theman, as iv every official just had lived for the reason to steal a winn from Senna XD i bit childish that view
ThamanX 1 month ago
@ThamanX youre right. some of his fans are really annoying.
Spriteanimator1 1 month ago
@ThamanX
Just watch the senna documentary. In his worst state and condition , and not being as skilled, he still managed to lead schumacher right before his death.
RagingUtai 1 week ago
@handydudee You obviously don't know much about F1. The amount of world titles don't always make you the best, Schuy was gifted 4 of those titles as Ferrari where at a time so far ahead of everyone. Senna was & will always be the fastest F 1 driver to grace the sport. RIP Ayrton..
jjakotya 2 months ago
@jjakotya How about Jim Clark?
bluemoon95 4 weeks ago
Michael is the only 7 times world champion, Senna hasn't even equalized late Juan Manuel Fangios 5 victories. The only driver with at least 4 victories has been Alain Prost. All other drivers had only managed a maximum number of three. I think, there is no doubt, who is by far the best driver in Formula 1 history.
handydudee 3 months ago 2
@handydudee
you're right, it's Senna!
AlexBrasil123123 2 months ago
@handydudee Senna
MrKalashnikitty 2 months ago
@handydudee You do know that Senna died before he could win more championships. Some of the other wins were stolen from Senna by race officials (as can be seen in the film "Senna") But in his short life and racing career, Senna was, without a doubt, the most amazing racing driver ever!!! RIP Senna!! You'll always be the greatest!
THEMAN201111 1 month ago
Yep he's better... with TC on...
fpupesh 3 months ago
Ayrton Senna might have passed. So we created the Stig to remember him.
RaceHawaii 3 months ago
Statistics...very misleading.The 7 world titles might make you think Schumacher is the best of all time but I dont think he even comes close to the natural ability of Senna.Its not even close.You might compare Fangio or even Clark/Moss to Senna but not Schumacher.Ive never been impressed by stats.Im not even sure Id rate Schumacher in the top ten of all time.
rananim3 3 months ago
I f you watch Schumacher the last 2 years against real competition like Alonso ,Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Rosberg and you see a fast driver then good for you...you seem very well informed about F1...me and my ignorance see a mediocre driver and nothing more...he was good against Hill, Coulthard, Frentzen or his own brother but not against true racers, he s got no chance against them.
xpandia 3 months ago
the only reason why Schumacher was fast back then was the lifted front nose of Benneton cars...,
imagine an f1 car of today with a nose facing the ground how much slower would have been it was an evolution in design that was adopted by every designer 3 years later remains the standard since then
xpandia 3 months ago
@xpandia You are so pathetic thinking a driver like him was just fast because of the nose of his car, it's a shame you show your ignorace in public. Gerhard Berger got Schumi's car in 1996 and said it was nearly undriveable and he wondered how the hell Michael could have won the WDC with that car in 1995.
ImFasterThanTheStig 3 months ago
Schumi ist better than senna
lordsaddler89 3 months ago
beautiful f1 cars ! =0
ikke3wie3anders3 3 months ago
schumi is right there he would not be the new senna cuz he turned in a better driver than senna
jzdb 4 months ago 2
Michael and Ayrton were both brilliant...and let's be honest, BOTH of them often orchestrated situations where they were the unchallenged top dog within their teams, both fairly and at times unfairly (Ayrton himself admitted that he blocked Derek Warwick from joining Lotus in '86 because he didn't want another top driver in the team). But most great drivers do that, it's natural for them to be single minded and want only the best for themselves. Both absolute legends, no need to compare them.
azapro911 4 months ago
SHUMACHER IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TheRijir 4 months ago
For me, Schumacher overtook Senna a long time ago and I'm not saying that because of statistics and numbers.
Major812 4 months ago 2
Great personality and characteristics, you can only find that in planet earth
FrapsYou 4 months ago
And by remaining "just Michael Schumacher", the Vunderkid achieved greatness equal to that of his idol. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Ayrton Senna, in my humble opinion, no driver like him today, but shall I ever discount Michael? No way.
S7r0ng3r 4 months ago 2
o cara e bom mesmo.fez resurgir a ferrari
genilson505 4 months ago
Nope he's better.
Bennoisky 4 months ago
I think Michael actually WILL win a grand prix. Maybe next year's Monaco!!! Equalling Senna's record. :-) If he qualifies 4th and does some of his start magic and is lucky, maybe he has a realistic chance. Especially if the guys prepare a tiny bit better Mercedes 2012 than the 2011 is.
jakubkrcma 4 months ago 2
Everyones quick to say "oh if top gear and schumacher says Senna is the best then he must be!!" Does nobody remember the great fangio? I quote his famous line.... "You must always strive to be the best, but never believe that you are." No doubt schumacher follows that. Where was a young inexperienced Schumacher when Ayrton crashed? Right up his arse!!! Was only a matter of time. Schumacher was a new age of driver fitness and inteligence. Get over it.
Razz991 4 months ago
Michael was the dominating driver of his years, but he wasn´t as good as Senna.
X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X 4 months ago
@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X No he wasn't as good as Senna. He IS way better than Senna.
felipemuve 4 months ago
@felipemuve
No, Senna was better.
The fact that Bellof maybe was the only driver who would have been as good as Senna may help your German soul...
X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X 4 months ago
michael grow up to be the greatest ever!
xman822 4 months ago
michael is the best driver
senna is the best driver EVER
kartdriver92 5 months ago
Schumacher is not modest enough to say he is worse than Senna. He is trying to give himself the potential to be better.
june372 5 months ago 2
@june372 that's nonsense even if I am a huge Senna lover. Senna was the same, that made them extra special. Ayrton never dreamed about being the new Fittipaldi or something...but about the best that ever lived. So why can't Schumacher say that? If you never believe in yourself, you will never reach the top...same with Senna, same with Schumacher and the same with most world champions. (who really the best is, is in the records and eye of the beholder)
Lexinho90 4 months ago
@Lexinho90 I'm not saying that Senna was any different. In fact, I'm not even saying its a bad thing. I just saw somewhere that someone said he's not the new Senna because he knows he's worse. That was just false.
june372 4 months ago
lol 2 races into his first full season in f1 and hes already got the confidence to start voicing an opinion to the FIA in the same way the schumi of today does.
garethkielty 5 months ago
Senna is legend !
fabiano75s 5 months ago
I think Schu understands that the titles from 1994-1997 would have been won by Senna, making him the 7 World Champion.
LDis1 5 months ago
@LDis1 Even if Senna didn't crash at Imola, Schumacher would have won the titles in 94 & 95 anyway and been 7 times World champion...
Shogo5000 5 months ago
@Shogo5000
Or even this.... Schu wins 1997-1998-1999 and 2006, making him an 11 time World Champion.
But I think Senna would have pushed Schu in 1995.
LDis1 5 months ago
Aryton Senna=Best Driver
Michael Schumacher=Best Racer
KevNSuraj 5 months ago
Senna= best driver ever..
35sixer 5 months ago
You dreamed to be like Senna but couldnt. Never.
burns985 5 months ago
I wish Hamilton would take a lesson out of this.
gnarkillkicksass 6 months ago
Good for Michael, he is an individual. If I had reached the pinnacle I would not want to be compared to anyone. Even Senna.
JRRacing85 6 months ago
but where is his brilliance now.
i dont like him but i would like to see him winning again.
TheMaku5000 6 months ago
cheeky german monkey.
NO ONE IS BETTER THAN AYRTON.
TheMaku5000 6 months ago
@TheMaku5000 he said he does not want to be compared to senna nor is he the new senna. he said that he is michael schumacher and he wants to stay that, you fool. senna was his idol.
mathee77 6 months ago
@TheMaku5000 Are you dumb...he didnt say he was better than aryton
KevNSuraj 5 months ago
No one is better than senna... even schumi says it.
GregorioStyreco 6 months ago 63
@GregorioStyreco He had to, he couldn't say himself
petersims411 6 months ago
@petersims411 Well i can show you a vid where everyone of the new generation says that senna was the best driver. I just loved this guy... trust me, just take a look at the movie "Senna" and you will just love this guy.
GregorioStyreco 6 months ago
@GregorioStyreco That was the video I was referring to. If I may, I will parallel an every day person to Ayrton Senna;
A fairly decent bloke who were to die may have been an average Joe, but once he's dead all of a sudden he's a "top bloke" or "the nicest guy you could meet". The same is true with Senna, he was a great driver, but once he died, everyone called him the greatest driver who ever lived. Kurt Cobain/Nirvana got the same status: They were great, but not the best, like Amy Winehouse.
petersims411 6 months ago
@petersims411 I could not agree with you more Peter. There are too many people putting Senna on a plinth just because he is dead. He was an excellent driver but just because people watch a film and a couple of interviews they think they knew the man inside out. The real Senna was as flawed as any top level racing driver - he was however exceptional behind the wheel. I believe there has been and will be those who are even better. Good on Michael, he is not Ayrton Senna he is Michael Schumacher!
JRRacing85 5 months ago
@JRRacing85 Fully agreed,.
I mean, to be honest, a popular conception is that late 80s/early 90s was host to the greatest drivers, but that's only because they shone in their era, but now there's much stiffer competition right the way down the ladder all the way to karting, and just because no driver shines (if you ignore schumacher) there's no assumption that there's a great driver, but I think they's all hold their own in earlier eras.
petersims411 5 months ago
@GregorioStyreco Furthermore, you could tell by the way Schumi answered the question that he wasn't telling the truth about who he thought was the greatest driver.
petersims411 6 months ago
@petersims411 Mate, i'm not to discuss here anything, in my opinion he was just the best, cause he fucked everyone in the rain, even in 1993 when he was in the underclassed Mclaren... he knowed his cars like nobody in the F1. He spent sooo much time with the mechanics to learn about everything... it was his life. And yes schumi is a very good driver, but the fact that he got 7 world championchips doesnt make him to the best driver.... it's just a record in the cheating age of F1.
GregorioStyreco 6 months ago
@GregorioStyreco Senna cheated too, He deliberately ran into Alain Prost to win the championship and openly admitted it.
petersims411 6 months ago
@petersims411 He had reasons to, the FIA president himself was taking Prost's side and sabotaging Senna for the last 2 years, so either Senna had to do something or he had to just let them continue doing s**t. Don't speak as if you were in his shoes and knew what he had to deal with...
hristoitchov 6 months ago
@hristoitchov Like you're speaking now?
I gave a single example, there were many others. I'm not taking the side of any driver, I just hate the way people put Senna on a pedestal just because he died. It happens with so many people.
petersims411 6 months ago
@petersims411 He was put on pedestal BEFORE he died, so your remark is invalid. And I wasn't speaking pretending I was in his shoes as you did ("Senna cheated too"), I'm speaking facts that everyone can find and check up. What I hate is people who pick up something out of context and use it just to prove their false claims.
hristoitchov 6 months ago
@petersims411 Senna wasn't put on a pedestal because he died . He was already on it .
thehitchrules 5 months ago
@petersims411 Anyone who really believes your statement here has no F1 knowledge, If you don't know the real reasons why Senna and Prost collided don't comment at all
kouzouka 5 months ago
@GregorioStyreco so if schumi says it, then it automatically means he isnt better? WOW.
Ferrari123planb 5 months ago
@Ferrari123planb no i just think that you are an idiot and you don't know really senna. its pissing me of that people are talking about senna that he is a great driver because he died. Ppl like you need to wake up that schumi dont know how to race a f1 car with one hand like senna, prost, mansell and other does. Senna was the only f1 driver who helped other f1 drivers on the track (like he helped eric comas). Senna wasnt just a big racing driver, he was also a great man.
GregorioStyreco 5 months ago
@GregorioStyreco QQ more
TheMaroth 5 months ago
@GregorioStyreco we cant really say who is better (as they were never teamates) but if it came to a final conclusion, Senna was a better qualifyer with more car control, great personality, schumi is a better racer, always daring to take overtakes, defending his position like no other, driving in the rain as if it was dry. but in the end its only opinion, and thats final.
Ferrari123planb 5 months ago 37
@Ferrari123planb thats what i wanted to hear ;) hehe
GregorioStyreco 5 months ago
@Ferrari123planb If Senna was better qualifier, why he couldn't beat Schumi in 93 when he had even better car? Schumacher managed to match Senna 8/8 despite his poor Benneton. Schumi was not new Senna, he was better than Senna. Better in qualifyings, races, rain. Senna was less dirty but that's all.
arturcraft2 3 months ago
@arturcraft2 the bennetton was a better car they had better ford engines, senna performed magic 1993 he came 2nd in an uncompetitive car
vibeackermann 3 months ago
@vibeackermann Uncompetitive car? Well alot faster than the Benetton-Ford my fine sir
CitizenZon3 3 months ago
@CitizenZon3 mmm i wouldnt say alot faster given the fact they had the same engines and benneton were given the latest engines and ford works support... and yes it was an uncompetitive car when the renault engines were 80bhp more thats like having permanent kers nowadays and they had superior active suspension
vibeackermann 3 months ago
@vibeackermann They had same engines after some races and Mclaren is said to have more downforce. Anyway, I wasn't saying about WDC. I only said that Senna and Schumacher were even in 93 qualifyings 8-8.
arturcraft2 3 months ago
@arturcraft2 is said ? that is just opinion, the MP4/8 which has powered by the same Ford HB V8 as the benetton, however benetton remained the chosen team for the latest engines and ford works support, Mclaren had to by the engines. In terms of racing, schumacher out raced senna 9-7 even though senna won 5 times. however in monaco 93 senna wouldnt have son if schumachers engine had not blown so then it would have been 10-6.
vibeackermann 3 months ago
@arturcraft2 in the same car, senna was faster, the only reason schumacher attained 65 poles is because he has raced 125 more races then senna, picture this in 2004 when he had his most dominant car he only managed to get 8 poles ? i think it is better to say schumacher was maybey a better driver but was no where near fast then senna, senna was the fastest driver of all time, the only person who comes near him is sebastian vettel
vibeackermann 3 months ago
@vibeackermann Do you realise they never were in the same car so that your statement is useless and absolutely not factual?! Plus, the only reason why Senna got more pole earlier was that he had competitive cars in qualifyings most of his carreer. F2004 was a dominant car in races but Michelin had better tires for qualifyings and that's why Schumacher never made some much poles as the wins he got during the 2000-2004 years. Schumacher in 93 was faster in qualifyings than Senna.
arturcraft2 3 months ago
@arturcraft2 of course i realise that you fool, i think murray walker, james hunt, jackie stewart ect will all disagree with you that the only reason he had competitive cars in most of his career he only raced 10 years and he had a championship winning car for 4 years, the toleman ? i dont think so, the lotus of 85 and 86 were to a certain extent competitive however senna had an amazing ability he was the greatest of all time IMO
vibeackermann 3 months ago
@Ferrari123planb people call schumacher the rain master he was superb in the wet but i think senna was the master, there are some great examples of him on youtube demonsrating car control.
vibeackermann 3 months ago
@Ferrari123planb
Are you serious/ senna was the RAIN God! Almost every driver and professional acknowledges senna as being the greatest. Also senna's last race, before the crash , he was in the lead. At this time in his career he was under alot of stress and less motivation, as prost his rival had retired, and being in a new & different team culture, also acting as a engineer cause the car kept fucking up. it was a bad time, he he managed to lead schumacker,
RagingUtai 1 week ago
@GregorioStyreco do u want him to say he is better? lol what is wrong with u?
rsa8665 5 months ago
@rsa8665 I didnt say that... lol :D i just said that he is right that everyone thinks different...
GregorioStyreco 5 months ago
@GregorioStyreco
you do realise that he said he is Micheal Schumacher. he didn't want to be someones shadow. you can debate which ones better for years with no results. but Micheal Schumacher is Micheal Schumacher - driver with the best records in F-1 history. you can interpretate these records how you want, but it doesn't change this fact.
skaloon 4 months ago 8
@skaloon si senna seguiria corriendo creeme amigo que nadia igualaria sus numeros pero la historia dicta loe hechos que marcan nuestra epoca para que michael pudiera brillar senna tendria que dejar de existir y asi fue ese choque lo llevo a la gloria, en esa epoca se definian las carreras por la capacidad del piloto hoy se gana pr la tecnologia eso quiere decir que senna es mas piloto, SENNA SIEMPRE SERA EL #1
zszoomz 3 months ago
@zszoomz
what?
skaloon 3 months ago
@GregorioStyreco Agreed. Senna 4ever.
burns985 4 months ago
@GregorioStyreco no,he has sayed he never will be the new Senna,but he has better as Senna!!!!!Sory for my English
deahthunter98 4 months ago
@GregorioStyreco
this is bullshit. Senna was good. But Schumacher is good too. Only becuase he is dead all people say he was the best.
ElAreira83 3 months ago 3
@ElAreira83
I think the reason why people tend to say Senna is/was better, is more because he had a very charismatic personality......
surfinglexie 3 months ago
Comment removed
CitizenZon3 3 months ago
@GregorioStyreco That's what I don't like about what some people are saying about Vettel. A lot of people are saying he's "baby Schumi" or the next Schumacher, or whatever. Even if Vettel doubles Schumacher's records, he will never be able to be compared to Schumacher.
carsismeZ06 3 months ago
@GregorioStyreco Shame he IS better.
MarkSweetus 3 months ago 3
Both Schumacher an Senna were great drivers. I do believe Senna was slightly better, but it's just my opinion not a fact. A fact is that Schumacher holds most of the F1 records. I also think that the come back of Schumacher it's been damaging for him. It's like he has lost that aura of him as a super champion. When he first retired he ended second in the driver's championship behind Alonso, it would have been a pretty good farewell.
muchachol 6 months ago 4
@ImFasterThanTheStig : I'm 1000% agree with U
@Ferrari123planb : Schumi the greatest Driver for ever!
zakcohiba 6 months ago
In music sports, arts, politics always such a short sighted misktake to try and make someone 'the new' something. Something/someone was then. This is the first NOW. He wasn't the new senna. Senna was the senna. Schumacher was the schumacher. Make your own legacy, whatever it may be
ALostPilot 6 months ago
Bum, no one is better than anyone, just every driver has his own strength and ways of driving. Both are damn good drivers, and what Schumacher said here is well spoken.
Tranzorr 6 months ago
Both are great drivers but are dirty drivers also.
AirCrashMayday 6 months ago
"Michelle Schumuhurr"
F1archivesDotCom 6 months ago
you are the one and only Michael Schumacher ...
also the one like no other
Quixpeed 6 months ago
Vettel the new schumacher WINS BUT ALWAYS RUNS INTO PEOPLE :D
LukeTheOne99 7 months ago
he's not the new senna, he's an old cheat
lealowo 7 months ago
Now he's being compared to...
thatguywiththecodes 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
he isnt the new senna... he's better
Ferrari123planb 7 months ago 9
@Ferrari123planb
he never was better.
Go and check even pure statistics, check the 10 years of Senna career and check even the best 10 years of Michael, he is not "the best" ever. You cant compare 10 years of Senna in F1 and near 20 of MSC
adakar83 6 months ago
@adakar83 ok michaels first 10 years, he had become a 4 time champion, he wasnt in a good car until 1994, he started in 1991 where he only did 6 races. he left to go to ferrari who had a bad car and made it good only did half the 1999 season and yet still he is a 4 time champion, with 55 wins, thats his first 10 years, senna was in F1 for then years. looks like michael is still better :D
Ferrari123planb 6 months ago
@Ferrari123planb
Good point.
*Senna always joining the strong-winning teams (wich would win anyway)
* I would say that Michaels era was far more Competitive, equal and faster!
Even if turbos/the 80´s was cool..... It dont match up the larger number of hungry gokart of today. Or the fact the 80´s had LESS races/year!
hlidskjalf666 6 months ago
@Ferrari123planb He WAS better
mostertpot17 6 months ago
@Ferrari123planb lol
vlado7777 6 months ago
@Ferrari123planb
no he's not. No one is better than Ayrton Senna.
RoarOfZonda 6 months ago
@RoarOfZonda Schumacher is better...
Ferrari123planb 6 months ago
Hamilton should learn a few things from Michael and not just driving vise.
Sh1r1n 8 months ago
Bennetton was the ford factory team, they got the best ford engines. the 92 honda was junk, too heavy and under powered. in 93 Mclaren used ford customer engines which were 2 specs behind Shueys.
You don't know what you're talking about. You have two choices, agree with me (and all f1 drivers, team owners, announcers, people in general) or be wrong. Since you have no clue...I suspect you will choose to be wrong....which is great because Senna fans don't want you on our bandwagon
chansen84 8 months ago
In 92 the honda engine was outdated...too heavy and underpowered, honda stopped development as they were leaving the sport so in actual fact Shueys ford was the better engine. in 93 mclaren used ford customer engines which were 2 specs behind Shueys. Since Benetton was the ford factory team they got the best engines in both 92 and 93. Your problem is you've only been watching since 99 so you truly don't understand the life cycle in F1. Teams rise,then fall, then rise again.
chansen84 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig Shuey is a great driver and won 7 championships but he did not do it against the same calibre of driver that Senna did. Nelson beat 3 other world champions. When Shuey won their were no former world champions racing against him. Mansell, Piquet, Prost and Senna were gone. He didn't beat the best.
Sorry...Senna is the best!
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 LOL, Schumi could win CS with inferior cars (the 94,95 Benetton was not match against the Williams), Senna could only do that with the best car on the grid. Period.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig Again you are showing you know nothing of F1 history. The williams were horrible in 94, they had been designed for all the electronic aids...when they were outlawed the car was horrible.....and let us not forget Beneton was found guilty of cheating. They had traction control still in their source code on the car. With a team being run by Flavio Briatore ...should we be surprised.
chansen84 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig If Shuey is the greatest of all time...how come he wasn't won during his come back.....Niki Lauda came back from a three year retirement and won a championship......Shuey has a hard time beating his teammate.....just sayin
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 Well, funny how you switch from the past to the recent situation, because of my points about the past, 1. Lauda was not 41 when he came back, 2. F1 has changed a lot since Schumacher left 2006, 3. He is not motivated anymore, with 7 titles and 42 years. Funny how Senna-fans always switch to the current situation when getting reminded that Schumi could constantly beat Senna on the track, when he was alive.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig Dude you need to go back and check the stats...you are seriously out to lunch.
As I previously stated 1992 Senna=3 wins Shuey=1 of 6 races both finished together Senna finished higher in 4.
1993- Senna = 5 wins Shuey= 1
2 year points total Senna 123 Shuey 105 WINNER Senna Get a Clue! I'm not Saying Shuey didn't do well, he did and he did beat Senna in a few races but he didn't do better over the two seasons they ran together.
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 Dude, you should go back and check the stats: In 92 and 93, Schumi's Benetton was certainly not equal to Senna's McLaren, in 92 Senna had the powerful Honda V12, whereas Schumi had a V8 engine, and his car was certainly not one of the best on the grid. He beat Senna in 92, and with a weak Benetton in 93 he couldn't do it, but was not way behind great Ayrton Senna. For a rookie like Schumi, beating Senna in his first year (with a worse car) and finishing close to him a year later is ..
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@chansen84 ...certainly a reason to say that Schumi could beat him on the track. And being able to beat great Senna in your first year with a weaker car, well, I dunno how you call that, I call it brilliant. And LOL about your 123 vs 105 pts. So, great Senna was able to just get 18 points more out of what, 30 races? WOW! Schumi is really NO MATCH for Senna *note the sarcasm*.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@Imwrongagain Bennetton was the ford factory team, they got the best ford engines. the 92 honda was junk, too heavy and under powered. in 93 Mclaren used ford customer engines which were 2 specs behind Shueys.
You don't know what you're talking about. You have two choices, agree with me (and all f1 drivers, team owners, announcers, people in general) or be wrong. Since you have no clue...I suspect you will choose to be wrong....which is great because Senna fans don't want you on our bandwagon
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 ROFL, I have more than two choices.
Moreover, it's a bit rich thinking that all people in general are with your opinion, maybe you are too self-confident. "Since you have no clue" lol, standard answer from you. So, if someone doesn't agree with you, he has no clue. So if you favourite soccer team is not mine, I have no clue about soccer, and if you vote for a different political party than me, I have no clue. And LMAO @ "Senna fans don't want you on our bandwagon", sounds like ...
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@chansen84 you knew him very well. Anyway, I certainly won't change my mind, and I know that the 92,93 Benetton was certainly not the best car on the grid, and that the Honda engine was much more powerful in a time, where aerodynamics where nearly nothing, and power was everything. But, since I don't agree with you, I guess I have no clue, so by your totalitarian thinking it would be the best to shut up, or...
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig I welcome debate with people that deal with accurate facts, you don't. Even when you are confronted with actual fact you prefer to believe your make believe assumptions. I welcome different view points and love to be enlightened by knowledgeable people. What I don't have time for is people that live in fantasy land. I watched F1 at this time and saw it all happen in real time...Senna and that era was the best there has ever been.
chansen84 8 months ago
from wikipedia Benetton B193 It is arguable that it was overall the third most competitive car on the grid,behind the Williams and close to the McLaren, with Schumacher regularly scoring podiums and out-qualifying the single-lap ace Ayrton Senna in 8 of the 16 races of the season. Having a factory engine in contrast to McLaren having to make do with a customer unit gave Benetton a noticeable power advantage
chansen84 8 months ago
from wikipedia Benetton B193 It is arguable that it was overall the third most competitive car on the grid,behind the Williams and close to the McLaren, with Schumacher regularly scoring podiums and out-qualifying the single-lap ace Ayrton Senna in 8 of the 16 races of the season. Having a factory engine in contrast to McLaren having to make do with a customer unit gave Benetton a noticeable power advantage The benetton was not the dog you claim
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 See, that's what I expect from people like you, facts and sources, instead of emotional people- bashing. Constructive critique, instead of trying hard to make your discussion partner look like he had no clue. The 92 Benetton was not a dog, but it was not on an equal level as the McLaren, because c'mon, the Honda engine was undoubtedly the best engine of the early 90's. In 1993 however, as you'll also have to admit, the Benetton was a really bad car. It was a miracle that Schu could ..
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@chansen84 ... win with this car in Estoril I think. I also admit, that the 93 McLaren was a dog of a car, with the Peugeot engine and it's missing reliability.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig I'm trying to find power stats for the ford and honda from 1992, in 93 Senna used ford power like benetton but it was a less powerful version than the benetton.
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 My fault: sry, I mixed up the McLaren MP 4/8 with the MP 4/9.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig No problem, all the specs are hard to keep straight from year to year. I'm on the internet half the time confirming what I remember.
They are both great drivers, Having watched F1 in the mid to late 80's early 90's we were spoiled, getting to watch Piquet, Senna, mansell, prost, lauda all battle for championships and the way they could throw the cars around..was awesome. Yes the cars are faster now but it's not as exciting for some reason
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84 Word. Let's finish the war now, as I started watching F1 in 99, and for me Schumi will always be the best driver ever. I respect Senna as an outstanding driver, with all his negative sides too (same for Schumacher), but in my opinion, much of this admiration upon him is based on his death. Imagine Senna loosing the Championship in 94 to Schumacher (which I can imagine very well), I don't think Senna would be admired that much. Michaels bad luck was that Senna died, and many fans...
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@chansen84 ... felt and still feel somehow betrayed, that a German took his place. There's still alot of hate towards Germans coming from british speaking people, and a young, successful german that constantly beat english drivers and teams creates a certain amount of hate towards him. That's very unfair in my opinion, as I don't think that this picture of Schumacher is the right one. He cried when he equaled Senna's race win record, that was one of the most emotional outbreaks I've seen in F1.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago
@chansen84 And this was the evidence, that Senna's death meant a lot to him, and that he's not the cold asshole as the British media always wanted to portray him. But many people only see him weaving a bit on the podium at Imola 94, when he didn't even know that Senna was dead and take that as an evidence that he was cheerful about that. This makes me sick.
ImFasterThanTheStig 8 months ago 2
@ImFasterThanTheStig Senna was an Idol to shuey, I like shumacher and was thrilled when he came back and I really wanted him to do well, we are around the same age so I would love to see him kick some of these young guys butts. I truly believed he would win again...because I do think he is a great driver.
chansen84 8 months ago 25
@chansen84 he was an idol until brazil in 1992
reiny6474 7 months ago
@chansen84 Correctm you only have to watch his reaction when he equals Senna's number of victories to understand how he felt about Senna. Yes I think he will be back on the Podium soon !!
datsunz 5 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig Even if he didnt know Senna was dead, there was definitely one confirmed death at that point, 14 injured spectators, 4 Injured mechanics & Rubens Barrichello.
so yea, his antics on the podium were in poor taste, in my opinion.
flipsidedogchop 6 months ago
@flipsidedogchop watch?v=byAuJSEXsMA&feature=related
I can't see any cheering there, a bit of weaving to the crowd, a forced smile, but if someone's biased, then he/she'll always interpret such things differently. It must hurt that Schumacher demolished, destroyed, humiliated British teams and drivers in the following years, maybe that's why people like you react as they do.
ImFasterThanTheStig 6 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig I watched the shit live so dont try being smart with me little girl
Maybe it hurts you that british drivers are demolishing, destroying & humiliating schumi at present, i know id be pissed off to if my favortie driver was getting owned by people like pastor maldonado hahaha!
flipsidedogchop 6 months ago
@flipsidedogchop
1. Petrov didn't beat Schumacher in his first season, Schumacher finished 9th, Petrov 13th
2. Schumi's "2nd career" is his biggest mistake so far, I never said that he is doing a great job nowadays, and as far as I can remember, we were talking about 94 and about his Ferrari times
3. The fact that you switch the topic to a completely different time shows me that you haven't really got any points, same reason why you try to offend me :P Not the nice english manner, eh?
ImFasterThanTheStig 6 months ago
@flipsidedogchop Quote: "Maybe it hurts you that british drivers are demolishing, destroying & humiliating schumi at present, i know id be pissed off to if my favortie driver was getting owned by people like pastor maldonado hahaha!"
Well, he is 42, he has reached everything a human being could possibly reach in his life, so he doesn't have to win races nowadays to show that he is the best who has ever lived. I would be curious seing Senna's performance with 42 years.
ImFasterThanTheStig 6 months ago
@flipsidedogchop And after Mansell's "comeback" you still have the "courage" to laugh about Michaels comeback? LOL!
Do you remember him being too fat to get into the car?! Must have been quite embarassing, after he was declared as one of the Championship contenders for 95 XD. However, making your own reality is always more comfortable than sticking to the facts.
ImFasterThanTheStig 6 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig 3 messages wow you are an obsessive little fag!
Yea i remember mansells comeback, I remember him beating schumacher to pole in adelaide and winning the race....mansell was winning races in his 40's so i guess making up your own reality works for you, but the truth hurts, so u message 3 rambling messages cos u cant handle it hahahaha!
flipsidedogchop 6 months ago
@flipsidedogchop LOL, coming from you. "Petrov beat Schumacher in his first season", remember that one?
ImFasterThanTheStig 6 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig yea that was the fcking joke, you retard! ..... get it?
anyway at least petrov has got on the podium in the last few years
flipsidedogchop 6 months ago
@flipsidedogchop well currently your british drivers are getting owned by another german.
chansen84 6 months ago
@chansen84 ....driving a car designed & built in England
flipsidedogchop 6 months ago
@ImFasterThanTheStig Michael's biggest problem when looking at his career is he didn't have great drivers to compete against....had Senna lived I'm sure it would have been great battles...maybe Senna wins in 96 and 97 for williams instead of Hill and Villeneuve. The one I thought could have been great competition was villeneuve but after williams always drove junk. Didn't get to see what could have been. Would have liked to see villeneuve at ferrari too
chansen84 8 months ago
@chansen84
You´re statement is that:
* There was no competition for Michaels 1 6 YEARS carrier!!!? xD
* Check belgium 1992, Michael won over Senna,Berger etc as a new rookie.....
You´r just to fucking stupid and audacious to even discuss with!
hlidskjalf666 6 months ago
@hlidskjalf666 Your 20 years old, Never saw Senna drive. So you can't make any credible argument. What former champions did shuey beat? Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen....Senna beat Prost (4 time champion), Mansell, Piquet( 3 time champion). In 94 and 95 there wasn't another world champion in the field. In 2000 only villeneuve and Hakkinen, 2001 on only villeneuve,
I respect your opinion, obviously you grew up watching Shuey and he did dominate what competition he faced. I would have liked to see
chansen84 6 months ago
@chansen84
It´s not about your or mine opinion! Fool. proove any of Ayrtons strenght/greatness with some measure science for f-sake! It´s quite obvious Alain Prost was the better racer of them. quick laps or fast pole´s dont mean shit in formula1 were long-term & consistent is harder.
And yet again your implication statement is that Formula1- "lost" it´s quality and somehow in Michaels carrier. xD very statistic likely.
---- part 2----
hlidskjalf666 6 months ago
--- part 1 ----
more likely, is that the 90´s and modern era is even harder! Larger number of people worldwide practise racing > more fast gifted karters > early elimination /f3000 etc > ends up with far more competitive drivers in the grid of the year 2000 compared to the 80´s ! Add also far more equal, some more races in the calendar of every season..... Overall you end up with the same stupid unreasonable thing that Formula 1 was peace´a cake as soon Senna left.
-- part 1 ----
hlidskjalf666 6 months ago
[i quote Schumacher Hall of Fame@Formula1.com]
"his sheer brilliance behind the wheel was never in dispute"
"In his last season the 37-year-old driver who had made Formula One racing his personal playground was still at the peak of his powers. No champion had been so excellent for so long, but Michael Schumacher finally grew tired of the effort necessary to continue to excel and decided to quit while he was still ahead - so far ahead that his achievements are unlikely to ever be surpassed.
hlidskjalf666 6 months ago
@hlidskjalf666 the battles if villeneuve was in a good car. As for belgium 1992, Ive never said Senna wasn't beatable.
chansen84 6 months ago
@hlidskjalf666 Go back and read all my posts , where i compare cars, power ..etc I proved my point well, that's why you are the only one to even post a reply. I can back up my opinion with facts, so matbe the last line of your post applies to you more than I.
chansen84 6 months ago
@chansen84
You cant deny the fact that Senna´s carrier and titles came in the dominant team/mclaren among constructors' titles !!! Quite more reliable hard facts than your amateur-opinion on horsepower etc.
You cant deny, Michael sat more often in inferior machinery ( PS.there is more than hp in an complex sport as formula 1)
hlidskjalf666 6 months ago