I don't know if you guys have seen this yet but I'm curious if there is any truth to it. A scientist by the name of Frank Znidarsic has apparently figured out why the fine structure constant has the value it does and he has been able to derive the constant from first principles.
w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MZ2mdSkWM
Now some of it is a bit over my head, so what do you guys make of it?
P.S. Don't dismiss the video by the title. Think about what he discusses and make up your own mind.
"Here's H-bar. That's Planck's constant divided by 2pi." Or more simply, Planck's constant divided by tau. Since learning about tau, hearing "2pi" has made my lip curl.
@RasmusLastname It'd probably be conveyed through number of filled squares on a grid or something, rather than the actual symbols '1', '3' and '7'. Probably not that way exactly but you know what I mean.
Here's the issue when you're saying we should send them 137. Why would 137 imply a constant to them? There's probably absolutely no dice on that an alien civilization uses the same three symbols for the same three numbers. Maybe their "1" is "G" etc. So 137 would probably not mean anything to them. And they probably don't have * meaning multiplied by and / meaning divided by etc, so writing equations wouldn't be to much use anyway. But it's a nice through none the less. Educational video!
@VoxSweden Was thinking the same thing. We might aswell have been working with a system other than the decimal one and it would still feel "natural" to us.
DUDE...I've made some really incredible synchromystic videos on my VIMEO channel, go look them up under my name (Noah Sherrill). One I'm about to post discusses that one of the first (and longest-running) sync numbers that began following me everywhere was 137, or 11:37. Actually, the first one was 311, and coincidences kept occurring to point out that it had something to do with aliens. Anyways, just check out my videos...There's certainly something "magickal" going on with them!
DUDE...I've made some really incredible synchromystic videos on my VIMEO channel, go look them up under my name (Noah Sherrill). One I'm about to post discusses that one of the first (and longest-running) sync numbers that began following me everywhere was 137, or 11:37. Actually, the first one was 311, and coincidences kept occurring to point out that it had something to do with aliens. Anyways, just check out my videos...There's certainly something "magickal" going on with them!
re: last post, notice I used the word KEY TO PORTALS, of course because 137 is placed between TWO SPECTRAL LINES, or how about we take a LEAP of reasoning is that the TWO MASONIC Pillars or TWO QaBaLaH Pillars in the Tree of Life mark the gate or PORTAL.
Now we can YAK about why those TWO TWIN TOWERS came crashing down.
In a unified world, it is all connected and evidence of a narrative ALREADY WRITTEN, its signature 137, is unfolding.
do a search of 'THE MAYA CODE 137 69 key to portals'
>>>it is actually best to start on page 1 read the brief intro and then skip to page 4 work backwards to the first post. It is disjointed because it is only a repository of associations.
Ah, okay, that works. I got 0.007296 using values rounded to 4 sig figs. That's close enough to 1/137 for my tastes!
Thanks. I don't know why the permittivity constant wasn't mentioned in the video, though I probably should have recognized it given the units I ended up with . .
Dr. John Webb, an astrophysicist from the University of New South Wales in Australia, has looked into this idea by probing the chemistry of the distant universe - seeing how quasar light shines on distant gas and dust. He's found evidence that an important constant, the Fine Structure Constant, may be different in different parts of our universe.
If he thinks that alpha could be different in different universes, why would it be a good number to send to another universe where it would mean nothing?
It could be different in different universes, but he didn't say it would be good to send to different universes; it would be good to send to other planets in our own universe (own galaxy really..)
This was the first number I thought of when making my youtube name, and I never knew about it was actually special, I always just thought it was cool.
this may be stupid but wouldnt it be a bad idea to send out 137 because isnt there a chance that a alian race could of came up with a different type of science or it turned out that our thoeres or wrong
@akbeast49 If you mean they have amended this constant to a value other than 137, then no. It wouldn't be a bad idea. Because assuming there is intelligent life out there, and assuming they've came up with the alpha constant, and then AMENDED it because they find out it's wrong, then we could be fairly certain that, if we said to them '137', they would be intelligent enough to know we obviously haven't progressed so far as to find out the value of alpha is wrong.
@danthemanzizzle Since it is a "pure number" as mentioned in the vid, it is a ratio that comes out the same no matter what measurement is used. For instance; when using th radian system to measure an angle the value would be the same whether oyu measured in inches or centimeters or anything. Since a radian is the ratio between the radius and the length of the arc, any unit used will cancel itself out in the division. Aren't Pure Numbers awwesome?
a question just popped in my head...if there are universes which have different physics so that it allows different chemical elements would we be able to bring them into our own universe and make use of them?..I'm thinking no, but would like to hear a physicists opinion
Issue I think is that we are so far away from anyplace that might have intelligent life and vice versa, that by the time we or they attain the technology to communicate they or we probably don't or won't care. May be a kind of intelligence/knowledge constant that precludes most contact.
I37? Why else should we send I37 it out into space? To send a message to aLIEns? But I HAD this thought watching that video. WHAT IF we are supposed to recognize I37 for what it is and ACT ON IT? WHAT IF we are actually on the receiving end of the message 'I37'? What NOW? IF you want to win $100K help solve the enigma re: I37 Ask this question...type this into your browser ... "Why 137? - help decipher share in Solomon's Treasure $100K" .... see you when you come to collect $100K....namaste Ra
@Airclot I'm an alien and I don't understand what do you mean. 137 binary pulses that's 1.742245718635205e+41 decimal and 1FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF hexadecimal - and all of them are our ancient constants.
Either of the arguments below are pointless. If you're trying to establish communication with an alien species then you don't want to start by using complex communication. If you sent them 137 pulses then they would recognize that by attributing a value based on their own numerical system provided that they have the ability to receive the data. It is likely that they would then understand this as some kind of intentional communication and then might try to establish a channel of communication.
REVERSE that, and the asumption is that they have dwelved into such matters deeply, then they may have dwelved into MANY things , instead of being OCD, and what you send to them will again just make us look stupid and random, expecting that they would percive that YOUR specific constant, is an item of thier interest.
what if they have 18 billion constants, what if they know what is actually making up and atom, what if they actually understand gravity, and you send them 137 :-)
I was reading in the new scientist that a 'new' study by reasearchers J.King and J.Webb that the alpha constant may vary spatially. Wouldn't this contradict lorentz symmetry and einstein's equations? Also wouldn't that mean that we live in a very restricted part of the universe?
The Fine Structure Constant is simply the ratio of the speed of light in a vacuum to the speed of light in the electronic structure of the atom. This is why it is dimensionless, because it is a ratio of velocities.
Do the math, and you will be able to derive wonderful new interpretations for Planck's constant and quantum physics. Try it!
Sure but again there is a Huge ARROGANT human brainiac that makes believe that even if you could get them to percive that you have sent them a ratio, that they would THINK the way some goofball did because he went to college. that they would somehow Know what you were sending them and how to attribute it, when it is only this human OCD behaviour about this one item that deems it a usefull number.
If you want them to think an species sent out a signal, make it unnatural.
this channel is very nice and helpful to all those guys stuck out there with formulae buzzing around without any meaning in their heads. Thumbs up if u say yes.
Can somebody explain why this number is more mysterious than all the other constants in physics, like for example the gravitational constant? What's the difference? Is it because nobody understands why it has this particular formula?
I have to say, I have never been one for seeing numbers as mystical or having any particular significance.
The number isn't exactly 137 anyway and, as the prof says, it's actually 1/137.03597 which is 0.08542455. And, it is made up from other constants, so it is, by definition, going to be constant.
It has to be *some* number. It just so happens to be 0.08542455. If it turned out to be something other than a number, that really would be mystical!
@lee155912000 For example velocity is measured in km/h or mi/h or m/s, all of these represent distance over time. Pi, on the other hand, is the ratio of the circle's circumference to its diameter, so it's distance/distance (cm/cm or km/km), thus they cancel each other out, leaving the number 'adimensional'. In this particular number, the dimensions also cancel out.
I have to agree and disagree. An advance alien race will be able to acknowledge another advance race if they knew 137 as it is a constant, even if they measure more accurately they will see the close approximation of the number. However, indeed how would one transmit that number? As they may not use the base 10 system. Indeed the only logical method might be use binary, thus 10001001 might be a better value to transmit.
@thehoogard You could send it out in binary (10001001) using two different frequencies. This way the aliens wouldn't get bored counting to 137. And they'll also know that humans can use numbers in base 2, therefore they'll be able to communicate back.
Probably the best way would be the method used by the 'aliens' in Contact... just transmit 137 pulses then a bit of a pause, then 137 pulses etc.
You can pretty much rest assured alien species are not going to use a base 10 system and may not even use a base 2 system. Just full on numbers is the only way to be relatively certain the message is understood.
Does anybody else ever think about how they would communicate with the aliens when they took you on their ship?
You have to use no symbols, and disregard all numbering systems... Even something as simple as trying to teach them your numbering system:
. = 1
.. = 2
wouldn't work because the = sign is messed up and they won't understand you're trying to tell them that you want the symbol '1' to represent one of something. It's very frustrating.
@Valendros I found a large poster on what to do if you're the first person to make contact with aliens but in this case, You'd put down 14 squares, in the dust or on paper or what have you. in each of these squares put dots representing each number. Then you'd repeat the process with the symbols 0-13 (so they understand our place value system and that we operate mostly in base 10)
Then you'd draw a simple math problem.
:.+::=:::. and repeat it with numbers. Do this a few times
@lotrfreak2010 0-9 are our base numbers, and we use the next 4 to show how our place value works. You could continue up to at least 23 if you wanted to be sure to get the message across. 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, add one value onto the left, repeat sequence. Stopping at ten wouldn't give them an example of how the system repeats
That is something I have never gotten either. Who is to say that other lifeforms use the same symbols as we do. Even the ancient Egyptians didn't use anything close to the numerals we do today. Who is to say that aliens would even know binary, maybe they have found out some other way to run their electronics and never had to come up with binary. If that is the case we couldn't even give aliens messages in on/off sequences.
They should be able to reason that it's binary because of the range of distinct signals in the transmission (only 2). Once that is understood then they can write the number out in whatever symbols they use to represent it, and that number should be equivalent to the same number written in our symbols. Although the symbols or the base may differ (hex, dec, binary), the number that is expressed is always the same. Numbers are universal.
no i get it now, but Jmoges it doesnt matter because im sure if their intelligent enough they would know how to count, they dont need to know our symbols like 123...etc
Uh ... no. The fine structure constant is independent of measurement system. The only factor that would make it look different would be if they used a different numeric base, like hexadecimal or octal or ... whatever. It's the same as pi. No matter whether we say a circle is 1 meter around or if it's 18 snerts around, the diameter ratio would still be 3.14159... in decimal notation, equivalent to any other number once you account for numeric base.
Ok, in your example of the definition of what we believe to be a circle , but what about the array of other "constants" that are defined with other measumements to achieve the 137, it seems to me the 137 (which is rounded anyways) is based on an array of measurements and other previously defined constants.
are all of the measurments in THIS total contant fractional relations of the rest of the items , or any utalising human terms?
if you look at the wiki (well beyond my comprehention) it seems that there are within it human defined measurements used.. i aparentally cant use links here, or i could point to the Varioations :-) in the constants throughout our further learning.
He said "recherché"; when used in english conversation it generally refers to something chosen deliberately which has a rare quality or specific use, ie; "You may find this collection of late 19th century vacuum cleaner nozzles a little recherché." HTH
Wavelength would be no good as a) wavelength changes dependent on the relative motion of the sender and the observer aka the Doppler effect also the b) the lengths are expressed in meters, a human measurement c) the signal would be lost in the general noise of the universe very quickly. I'm am unsure what the "collection of frequencies from elements" is supposed to mean however frequency is measured in cycles per second again a human measurement so I'm afraid not sorry.
I don't know if you guys have seen this yet but I'm curious if there is any truth to it. A scientist by the name of Frank Znidarsic has apparently figured out why the fine structure constant has the value it does and he has been able to derive the constant from first principles.
w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MZ2mdSkWM
Now some of it is a bit over my head, so what do you guys make of it?
P.S. Don't dismiss the video by the title. Think about what he discusses and make up your own mind.
TheNikoado 2 weeks ago
he never said what the number means....
Arghira 2 weeks ago 2
"Here's H-bar. That's Planck's constant divided by 2pi." Or more simply, Planck's constant divided by tau. Since learning about tau, hearing "2pi" has made my lip curl.
TheAngryAmoeba 1 month ago
@TheAngryAmoeba Great, now I have 2π...
tmafkap 3 weeks ago
you couldn't send 137 as numbers unless you first explain to then base 10 mathmatics. That or tap out 137 beeps.
stardude692001 1 month ago 3
@stardude692001 there is a rather simple explanation of the base 10 and the binary system on the golden record on both voyager spacecraft.
browsing trough it's content imagining being an alien completely unfamiliar with anything on our planet is pretty awesome =)
RufftaMan 3 weeks ago
I had to derive alpha on my homework just last week.
dojokonojo 1 month ago
@RasmusLastname It'd probably be conveyed through number of filled squares on a grid or something, rather than the actual symbols '1', '3' and '7'. Probably not that way exactly but you know what I mean.
MrJepcats 1 month ago
Here's the issue when you're saying we should send them 137. Why would 137 imply a constant to them? There's probably absolutely no dice on that an alien civilization uses the same three symbols for the same three numbers. Maybe their "1" is "G" etc. So 137 would probably not mean anything to them. And they probably don't have * meaning multiplied by and / meaning divided by etc, so writing equations wouldn't be to much use anyway. But it's a nice through none the less. Educational video!
RasmusLastname 1 month ago
send them 666
oldi184 1 month ago
shouldn't we send '42' to alien civilisation...
anteeko 2 months ago 2
137 is the Reduced Elite Constant
andreirocks1992 2 months ago
really hoping we get a view from Sixty Symbols on the latest hypothesis about the non constant nature of alpha.
craptacu14r 4 months ago
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I definitely vote for Professor Eaves being cast as Dr Isaac Kleiner in a Half-Life movie adaptation.
soberek 4 months ago
Aliens probably would have a totally different numeric system, so it is not certain that 137 pulses would mean 137 to them!
VoxSweden 4 months ago
@VoxSweden hmm! but whatever their system is, the amount is always the same, so they would perceive 137 differently but the amount cannot change.
KrustynailsVideo 4 months ago
@KrustynailsVideo 137 in a octal numeral system (just as an example), 137 would be correspond to the number 95 in our decimal system.
Alphab3t4 4 months ago in playlist More videos from sixtysymbols
@Alphab3t4 ooh! sixty symbols and it's viewers never cease to fascinate me
KrustynailsVideo 4 months ago
@VoxSweden Was thinking the same thing. We might aswell have been working with a system other than the decimal one and it would still feel "natural" to us.
Alphab3t4 4 months ago in playlist More videos from sixtysymbols
1337
GertOgren 5 months ago in playlist 60 symbols 2
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DUDE...I've made some really incredible synchromystic videos on my VIMEO channel, go look them up under my name (Noah Sherrill). One I'm about to post discusses that one of the first (and longest-running) sync numbers that began following me everywhere was 137, or 11:37. Actually, the first one was 311, and coincidences kept occurring to point out that it had something to do with aliens. Anyways, just check out my videos...There's certainly something "magickal" going on with them!
MaynardMouse 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
DUDE...I've made some really incredible synchromystic videos on my VIMEO channel, go look them up under my name (Noah Sherrill). One I'm about to post discusses that one of the first (and longest-running) sync numbers that began following me everywhere was 137, or 11:37. Actually, the first one was 311, and coincidences kept occurring to point out that it had something to do with aliens. Anyways, just check out my videos...There's certainly something "magickal" going on with them!
MaynardMouse 5 months ago
re: last post, notice I used the word KEY TO PORTALS, of course because 137 is placed between TWO SPECTRAL LINES, or how about we take a LEAP of reasoning is that the TWO MASONIC Pillars or TWO QaBaLaH Pillars in the Tree of Life mark the gate or PORTAL.
Now we can YAK about why those TWO TWIN TOWERS came crashing down.
In a unified world, it is all connected and evidence of a narrative ALREADY WRITTEN, its signature 137, is unfolding.
islandbuoy4 5 months ago
137 + 69 = THE code
do a search of 'THE MAYA CODE 137 69 key to portals'
>>>it is actually best to start on page 1 read the brief intro and then skip to page 4 work backwards to the first post. It is disjointed because it is only a repository of associations.
islandbuoy4 5 months ago
Can you guys do a video about the Eddington-Dirac number ?
1isaacmusic 6 months ago
What units are those numbers in? I tried mks:
e = 1.60219x10^-19 Coulombs (Ampere-seconds)
h-bar = 6.6262x10-34 Joule-seconds / 2pi (kg-m^2/s)
c = 2.99792x10^8 m/s
e^2/(h-bar*c) has units of Ampere^2 * seconds^4 / (kilograms*meters^3)
Even after converting Amperes in terms of Newtons per meter, I'm left with seconds^2/meters^3
What input units yield a unitless 1/137?
mdiem 6 months ago
@mdiem the whole thing is divided by 4*pi*epsilon_naught . so the whole equation is [e^2/h-bar*c] / [4*pi*epsilon_naught]
alucardmath 6 months ago
@alucardmath
Ah, okay, that works. I got 0.007296 using values rounded to 4 sig figs. That's close enough to 1/137 for my tastes!
Thanks. I don't know why the permittivity constant wasn't mentioned in the video, though I probably should have recognized it given the units I ended up with . .
mdiem 6 months ago
Dr. John Webb, an astrophysicist from the University of New South Wales in Australia, has looked into this idea by probing the chemistry of the distant universe - seeing how quasar light shines on distant gas and dust. He's found evidence that an important constant, the Fine Structure Constant, may be different in different parts of our universe.
anglomangler 6 months ago
NOW OFF TO WHY CIRCULAR LOGIC DOESN'T WORK.....
OR CAN IT?
MirageScience 7 months ago
@MirageScience
Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works.
mdiem 6 months ago
If he thinks that alpha could be different in different universes, why would it be a good number to send to another universe where it would mean nothing?
MisterMANada 7 months ago
@MisterMANada
It could be different in different universes, but he didn't say it would be good to send to different universes; it would be good to send to other planets in our own universe (own galaxy really..)
mdiem 6 months ago
This was the first number I thought of when making my youtube name, and I never knew about it was actually special, I always just thought it was cool.
afroninja137 7 months ago
this may be stupid but wouldnt it be a bad idea to send out 137 because isnt there a chance that a alian race could of came up with a different type of science or it turned out that our thoeres or wrong
akbeast49 7 months ago
@akbeast49 If you mean they have amended this constant to a value other than 137, then no. It wouldn't be a bad idea. Because assuming there is intelligent life out there, and assuming they've came up with the alpha constant, and then AMENDED it because they find out it's wrong, then we could be fairly certain that, if we said to them '137', they would be intelligent enough to know we obviously haven't progressed so far as to find out the value of alpha is wrong.
I think that makes sense.
Tridecalogism 7 months ago
@danthemanzizzle Since it is a "pure number" as mentioned in the vid, it is a ratio that comes out the same no matter what measurement is used. For instance; when using th radian system to measure an angle the value would be the same whether oyu measured in inches or centimeters or anything. Since a radian is the ratio between the radius and the length of the arc, any unit used will cancel itself out in the division. Aren't Pure Numbers awwesome?
Criterionx1 7 months ago
sending 1337 to aliens is just asking to be pwned.
tomimn2233 8 months ago
a question just popped in my head...if there are universes which have different physics so that it allows different chemical elements would we be able to bring them into our own universe and make use of them?..I'm thinking no, but would like to hear a physicists opinion
posro1988 8 months ago
I tought the answer was 42?
anteeko 8 months ago 2
lol just send them pi
FlashAstronomy 8 months ago
@FlashAstronomy pi is nothing compared to the complexity of this
pinnegubbe 7 months ago
OK but you haven't explained what the number 137 describes (what is its purpose and how dose it apply to anything?).
av733 8 months ago
i made my account after this number =)
onehundredand37 9 months ago 34
Issue I think is that we are so far away from anyplace that might have intelligent life and vice versa, that by the time we or they attain the technology to communicate they or we probably don't or won't care. May be a kind of intelligence/knowledge constant that precludes most contact.
MISTERASMODEUS 9 months ago
great talk but i cant help think if the aliens wouldnt know kilograms what make us think they would have the same number system to understand 137 ?!
love these talks by the way :)
serloinz 9 months ago
I really like this guy. You can tell he's extremely clever but he has a very patient and pleasant manner about him.
blueandwhite01 9 months ago
kinda reminds me 1337
3croN 9 months ago
137 videos on this channel, lol!
EvantekProductions 10 months ago 2
i recognise this guy...at the weekends he serves the fries at my local KFC
MasterOfSuprise 10 months ago
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I37? Why else should we send I37 it out into space? To send a message to aLIEns? But I HAD this thought watching that video. WHAT IF we are supposed to recognize I37 for what it is and ACT ON IT? WHAT IF we are actually on the receiving end of the message 'I37'? What NOW? IF you want to win $100K help solve the enigma re: I37 Ask this question...type this into your browser ... "Why 137? - help decipher share in Solomon's Treasure $100K" .... see you when you come to collect $100K....namaste Ra
islandbuoy4 10 months ago
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islandbuoy4 10 months ago
Comment removed
islandbuoy4 10 months ago
Get this man to talk about 137 for a full 15 minutes!
Poleschs 10 months ago
@Poleschs hearing him go eh can keep on going for weeks and weeks and it'll still be interesting
JeffBilkins 10 months ago
dang! i wanna hear those zany ideas!!!
dreasim 11 months ago
My passwords do involve number 137! o_0
dzovan137 1 year ago
137 is decimal system. what if they are doing all math in binary system, or factorial number system, or no system at all?
700 1 year ago
@700 That's why you send 137 pulses, not the actual number 137.
Airclot 11 months ago
@Airclot I'm an alien and I don't understand what do you mean. 137 binary pulses that's 1.742245718635205e+41 decimal and 1FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF hexadecimal - and all of them are our ancient constants.
700 11 months ago
do a search of: "Why 137"
>> go to the 2012Forum
find the fella called Raphael
he is fast becoming the expert on 137
mystic and physicist are united by 137
namaste
islandbuoy4 1 year ago
I see the aliens reacting like, "Quantum mechanics? We did that centuries ago!"
swords13639 1 year ago 2
@swords13639
Hahaha!
I have a great vid for you to see! I`ll need some time to upload it and i`ll send you a link over soon!
dzovan137 1 year ago
Either of the arguments below are pointless. If you're trying to establish communication with an alien species then you don't want to start by using complex communication. If you sent them 137 pulses then they would recognize that by attributing a value based on their own numerical system provided that they have the ability to receive the data. It is likely that they would then understand this as some kind of intentional communication and then might try to establish a channel of communication.
GWHadmin1 1 year ago
REVERSE that, and the asumption is that they have dwelved into such matters deeply, then they may have dwelved into MANY things , instead of being OCD, and what you send to them will again just make us look stupid and random, expecting that they would percive that YOUR specific constant, is an item of thier interest.
what if they have 18 billion constants, what if they know what is actually making up and atom, what if they actually understand gravity, and you send them 137 :-)
psycogeek 1 year ago
almost as nerdy as 1337
speeron 1 year ago 27
@speeron Yeah, in nerd talk it means LET, like in "let there be light..". Proof that creationism is right and god is nerd for sure...
upisoft2 1 month ago
I love fundimental constants. In a universe as mysterious as ours, they are like a way of nailing a cloud to a wall.
Tossphate 1 year ago
there are 137 likes to this video!
SchrodingersPet 1 year ago
I was reading in the new scientist that a 'new' study by reasearchers J.King and J.Webb that the alpha constant may vary spatially. Wouldn't this contradict lorentz symmetry and einstein's equations? Also wouldn't that mean that we live in a very restricted part of the universe?
goldentitan21 1 year ago
In some other very similar universe alpha is almost EXACTLY the inverse of 137, thereby baffling its intelligent inhabitants.
FlashFizz 1 year ago
The Fine Structure Constant is simply the ratio of the speed of light in a vacuum to the speed of light in the electronic structure of the atom. This is why it is dimensionless, because it is a ratio of velocities.
Do the math, and you will be able to derive wonderful new interpretations for Planck's constant and quantum physics. Try it!
AlienScientist 1 year ago
@AlienScientist
Sure but again there is a Huge ARROGANT human brainiac that makes believe that even if you could get them to percive that you have sent them a ratio, that they would THINK the way some goofball did because he went to college. that they would somehow Know what you were sending them and how to attribute it, when it is only this human OCD behaviour about this one item that deems it a usefull number.
If you want them to think an species sent out a signal, make it unnatural.
psycogeek 1 year ago
this channel is very nice and helpful to all those guys stuck out there with formulae buzzing around without any meaning in their heads. Thumbs up if u say yes.
aashish7kumar5 1 year ago 2
Can somebody explain why this number is more mysterious than all the other constants in physics, like for example the gravitational constant? What's the difference? Is it because nobody understands why it has this particular formula?
elimik31 1 year ago
I have to say, I have never been one for seeing numbers as mystical or having any particular significance.
The number isn't exactly 137 anyway and, as the prof says, it's actually 1/137.03597 which is 0.08542455. And, it is made up from other constants, so it is, by definition, going to be constant.
It has to be *some* number. It just so happens to be 0.08542455. If it turned out to be something other than a number, that really would be mystical!
St00sh13 1 year ago
leet -> 1337 -> 137
tronulu 1 year ago
@tronulu exactly 1:37PM or military time 13:37 :D
xeroaxlvx 1 year ago
Also the number for any leet hackers.
frankjohnson123 1 year ago
Would be nice to have a follow up to this video regarding the recently observed change in the fine structure constant!
(Science section of the Economist September 2nd issue)
ninediver 1 year ago
1+3+7=11 11:11 is at your door step
toobsucker 1 year ago
ive missed this guy he hasnt been on any of the most recent vids, where's he gone?
davejsa71289 1 year ago
what's wrong with phone numbers and email? lol .. just kidding .. can stop myself laughing watching this video .. lol .. sorry .. it's my bad .. lol
betul2bosan 1 year ago
What is 1/137 representing exactly ?
Also why does it have no dimension?
lee155912000 1 year ago
@lee155912000 For example velocity is measured in km/h or mi/h or m/s, all of these represent distance over time. Pi, on the other hand, is the ratio of the circle's circumference to its diameter, so it's distance/distance (cm/cm or km/km), thus they cancel each other out, leaving the number 'adimensional'. In this particular number, the dimensions also cancel out.
eltotoX 1 year ago
137 is the new 1337!
G3org3Master 2 years ago 8
Aha! 137 is a key number in Fast Forward!
rick08311 2 years ago
I have to agree and disagree. An advance alien race will be able to acknowledge another advance race if they knew 137 as it is a constant, even if they measure more accurately they will see the close approximation of the number. However, indeed how would one transmit that number? As they may not use the base 10 system. Indeed the only logical method might be use binary, thus 10001001 might be a better value to transmit.
DragonlordWarlock 2 years ago
He was speaking theoretically, we could get into a long 'debate' or something, but I cant be bothered.
G3org3Master 2 years ago
You would send 137 pulses of course. Does not need to be more fancy than that :)
thehoogard 2 years ago 43
@thehoogard You could send it out in binary (10001001) using two different frequencies. This way the aliens wouldn't get bored counting to 137. And they'll also know that humans can use numbers in base 2, therefore they'll be able to communicate back.
lethaldosage66 1 year ago
@thehoogard Not if they don't use a base 10 counting system ;)
Remorath 9 months ago
@Remorath how would that affect anything?
thehoogard 9 months ago
@DragonlordWarlock or 137 dots
TheLockdawg 2 years ago
@DragonlordWarlock
Probably the best way would be the method used by the 'aliens' in Contact... just transmit 137 pulses then a bit of a pause, then 137 pulses etc.
You can pretty much rest assured alien species are not going to use a base 10 system and may not even use a base 2 system. Just full on numbers is the only way to be relatively certain the message is understood.
Valendros 2 years ago
Does anybody else ever think about how they would communicate with the aliens when they took you on their ship?
You have to use no symbols, and disregard all numbering systems... Even something as simple as trying to teach them your numbering system:
. = 1
.. = 2
wouldn't work because the = sign is messed up and they won't understand you're trying to tell them that you want the symbol '1' to represent one of something. It's very frustrating.
Valendros 2 years ago
@Valendros I found a large poster on what to do if you're the first person to make contact with aliens but in this case, You'd put down 14 squares, in the dust or on paper or what have you. in each of these squares put dots representing each number. Then you'd repeat the process with the symbols 0-13 (so they understand our place value system and that we operate mostly in base 10)
Then you'd draw a simple math problem.
:.+::=:::. and repeat it with numbers. Do this a few times
Vennificus 1 year ago
@Vennificus
The idea being that they'd have developed excel through natural processes?
hehe, j/k. It makes sense, but I'd probably just stick to dots. Of course my luck they'd not have the sense of sight or something. Darn Aliens.
Valendros 1 year ago
@Valendros let's hope the have long-range photon sensors of some kind, or at least one sense in common
Vennificus 1 year ago
@Vennificus This is fascinating about the squares and dots -- but I do have a question. How would 14 squares show a base ten system? :)
lotrfreak2010 1 year ago
@lotrfreak2010 0-9 are our base numbers, and we use the next 4 to show how our place value works. You could continue up to at least 23 if you wanted to be sure to get the message across. 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, add one value onto the left, repeat sequence. Stopping at ten wouldn't give them an example of how the system repeats
Vennificus 1 year ago
@Vennificus Ahh I see. Thanks! :)
lotrfreak2010 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
why would they use 137 what if they use different units of measurments?
iBO0M 2 years ago
That's the thing. Alpha is a plain number. Everything used in order to find it is constant.
SMFApples 2 years ago 5
That is something I have never gotten either. Who is to say that other lifeforms use the same symbols as we do. Even the ancient Egyptians didn't use anything close to the numerals we do today. Who is to say that aliens would even know binary, maybe they have found out some other way to run their electronics and never had to come up with binary. If that is the case we couldn't even give aliens messages in on/off sequences.
Jmoges 2 years ago
They should be able to reason that it's binary because of the range of distinct signals in the transmission (only 2). Once that is understood then they can write the number out in whatever symbols they use to represent it, and that number should be equivalent to the same number written in our symbols. Although the symbols or the base may differ (hex, dec, binary), the number that is expressed is always the same. Numbers are universal.
DanMan7997 2 years ago
no i get it now, but Jmoges it doesnt matter because im sure if their intelligent enough they would know how to count, they dont need to know our symbols like 123...etc
iBO0M 2 years ago
It just plain works with what they use it for.
rwcabrera 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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maxxiexboi 2 years ago
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psycogeek 2 years ago
Uh ... no. The fine structure constant is independent of measurement system. The only factor that would make it look different would be if they used a different numeric base, like hexadecimal or octal or ... whatever. It's the same as pi. No matter whether we say a circle is 1 meter around or if it's 18 snerts around, the diameter ratio would still be 3.14159... in decimal notation, equivalent to any other number once you account for numeric base.
Duodecimal12 2 years ago 4
Ok, in your example of the definition of what we believe to be a circle , but what about the array of other "constants" that are defined with other measumements to achieve the 137, it seems to me the 137 (which is rounded anyways) is based on an array of measurements and other previously defined constants.
are all of the measurments in THIS total contant fractional relations of the rest of the items , or any utalising human terms?
psycogeek 2 years ago
if you look at the wiki (well beyond my comprehention) it seems that there are within it human defined measurements used.. i aparentally cant use links here, or i could point to the Varioations :-) in the constants throughout our further learning.
psycogeek 2 years ago
this guy is humbly awesome!!!
archaedemos 2 years ago 97
You should have mentioned its is cgs units so epsilon and stuff = 1 etc. I was sitting here thinking what the hell, how'd you get that number lol
MichaelERutherford 2 years ago
what did he say?
it is a little bit ra-shu-shay? is that French?i would look it up to see what he meant but i can't even spell it.
asifyoucare41 2 years ago
He said "recherché"; when used in english conversation it generally refers to something chosen deliberately which has a rare quality or specific use, ie; "You may find this collection of late 19th century vacuum cleaner nozzles a little recherché." HTH
jim40135 2 years ago
The only problem i see with sending this number is what if they don't work in base10?
What other ways can you transmit it that would make sense to someone who has no understanding of base10, or never thought to convert it?
DudeParallel 2 years ago 3
Simple, use base 2, binary if you will, 137 is 10001001
spacemonkeyjim 2 years ago 2
Hm, makes sense i guess, binary is nice and simple. (read: not)
Or it could be represented in wavelength, or encoded using a collection of frequences from elements.
DudeParallel 2 years ago 3
Wavelength would be no good as a) wavelength changes dependent on the relative motion of the sender and the observer aka the Doppler effect also the b) the lengths are expressed in meters, a human measurement c) the signal would be lost in the general noise of the universe very quickly. I'm am unsure what the "collection of frequencies from elements" is supposed to mean however frequency is measured in cycles per second again a human measurement so I'm afraid not sorry.
spacemonkeyjim 2 years ago 2
Ah yeah, true, i went from thinking about potential alien differences back to our own.
I completely forgot about Doppler, blah, my ideas are dead now lol :)
DudeParallel 2 years ago 2
Interesting exchange... I'll make sure I pass this on to Professor Eaves!
sixtysymbols 2 years ago
It's not that hard. Just send out 137 blips. I'm assuming aliens can count...
drewmandan 2 years ago
137!!
tech33012 2 years ago
Perfect!
jnrolf 2 years ago
"What you've got to dooooo..."
NautiKijana 2 years ago
The species can discover this number is 1337
bbsonjohn 2 years ago
This professor has a very engaging manner. I'd love to hear more from him!
Thanks for these superb videos!
johnclavis 2 years ago 7
1337
pin3appel 2 years ago 7
i loled
MagikGir 2 years ago 3