@chicraig6421 Jesus saved me with their "optional Sunday morning worship service", then slowly unblinded me and pulled me out =\. Are you really sure you're saved? All those cults and people who say they are Christians (but are not) think they are saved too, but don't realize how much danger they were in until God opens their eyes.
@falkenjeff You ask 'R U really sure you're saved?" I don't know that any of us really know if we are really saved. I can only relate my experiences as a human with all my faults (I do not include homosexuality as a fault), repent and pray to Christ. In the end only God can judge. If I live as close to a Christian life as Jesus taught us as I can, in the end I will be judged.
It's interesting that people frequently use Romans Chpt 1 to condemn EVEN loving&commited same sex relationships. Whereas in Romans Chapter 2 Paul says "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." So if people do want to qoute the Bible verses (from their contexts) & condemn GAY people, why don't they examine their OWN hearts FIRST?!
@chicraig6421 have you read Romans 1? Why would it call same-sex relations a "shameful lust" if it was not a sin? You can call it opinion, but I'm just reading God's book. If you give in to your desires and have sex with a man, thats just as bad as me opening some porn or buying a prostitute
@falkenjeff Again thank you for your honest opinion. We do not agree on what Paul meant in his letters to Romans. I do not see anywhere in Romans where homosexuality is a sin, simply not there. I agree lust is a sin - its 1 of the 10 Commandments actually. However I think you would find heterosexual lust is not different that homosexual lust - lust is lust its a sin.
@chicraig6421 how can you see something other than that? =\.
Usually if you have to try that hard, you're not trying to be discerning and get insight, you're trying to blind yourself. I'm sorry you can't see it dude. I almost got sucked in to a cult-like "word of faith" group. I really wanted to see it, but the holy spirit convicted me, no matter how hard I tried to twist the word to make their "speaking your desires into existence" and prosperity teachings seem true.
@chicraig6421 I really wanted to build my Amway business with their system, and everywhere outside all I saw was blatant prosperity teaching (eg: Joel Osteen), not the exact duplicate of what they were teaching, so I thought they weren't actually twisting God's word. The Holy Spirit showed me things, and I blatantly ignored them because they didn't match perfectly. I blinded myself. It wasn't until an author was recommended to me when I asked about Christian books
@chicraig6421 that author was completely connected to something called the "word of faith" movement, which was exactly what they were teaching, and it was almost like the Holy Spirit slapped me across the face, and was like "I told you, you weren't listening"
I know how it feels to blind yourself. See it before your heart is completely stone. It really sucks man, don't do it to yourself.
@falkenjeff Be careful of cults, some call themselves Christian, and they are not.
Jesus did save me, I thought I mentioned that. Jesus also saved my partner. Actually is was Christ that brought the 2 of us together, 17 years, married -Iowa- and counting.
My partner was a Pentecostal preacher traveled the world to spread the word, tossed of the old USSR and China.
We are both Christians, unlike Piper who for me anyway is suspect and a bigot spreading lies, crap Christianity, not Christ like.
"For the Supernatural, entering a human soul, opens to it new possibilities both of good and evil. From that point the road branches: one way to sanctity, love, humility, the other to spiritual pride, self-righteousness, persecuting zeal. And no way back to the humdrum virtues of the unawakened soul. If the Divine call does not make us better, it will make us much worse. Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst." --- C.S. Lewis Reflections on the Psalms AMEN!!!
@chicraig6421 all sexual sin is the same and equally bad. Pornography, sex before marriage, adultery, sex/marriage with someone who is the same sex as you... It's all bad. You say God loves me as I am. Before Christ, "who I was" was a person who would have lusted after anything or anyone. I'm blessed to never have actually committed fornication, because I would have reaped something bad and permanent, I know it.
@chicraig6421 Are you kidding me? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 PLAINLY says that homosexual is a sin. I don't know what Bible YOU'RE reading, but it's not the Christian Bible. Stop spreading false doctrine. There is a difference between loving someone and damning them. You're doing the latter.
One can be gay, & Christian, there is no conflict. God made u & loves u just as u are. You are not an abomination Lev died with Christ on the cross. When my fellow Christians say u are disordered, your life is not acceptable to God; know they are flat out wrong. God does not want you to change, he made you who you are. I know hate hurts, some Churches/preachers hurt; know they r flat out wrong. Gay is not a sin, not in the Bible. 4 help The Trevor Project is there - 866 4UTREVOR. God loves you
Homosexuality is seeming barred by Mosaic Law, much of which, such as divorce, was contested by Christ leaving parts of the Law He didn't mention in question. Paul seems to condemn it in 1 Cor. but it is in reference to prostitution. Neither this nor the pagan orgy he mentioned in Rom. is reflective of all homosexual relations any more than the prostitute who bathed Christ's feet with her tears or David and Bathsheba's affair is of all heterosexuals unions.
So let me see here, if my son (or daughter) tells me they are homosexual, and in a homosexual relationship;I should toss them out. Did I get that correct?
!st. Mr. Piper, Jesus said not 1 word about homosexuals did he? 2nd, the BIble is actually silent on the subject, so why are you preaching this hate?
3rd, Thank God there are good Christians out there that do not preach your brand of crap isn't that true? 4th. You want to turn people away from Christ if there are gay correct?
@Kelbstr Yes the Bible is silent on homosexuality as a sin. The Bible is not silent on homosexual acts and there is a difference. Those doing homosexual acts in the Bible are not homosexuals but heterosexuals doing sex acts to please their pagan gods, for prostitution, and using boys as toys. Actually the last is why Paul wrote Romans. You need to read in context.There is no difference between hetro or homosexual sin, the only difference is who they fall in love with
What this idiot fails to grasp is that the attitude that he says Christians should take to "Christians who accept some sins and still call themselves Christians" should be applied to all modern Christians because the church has said:
1. slavery is not ok (the Bible says it is) and 2. Women can talk in church (the Bible says they shouldn't). This man is applying bible verses to other people that also apply to every christian alive today. The Bible doesn't say "dont eat with people who disobey what the church currently teaches" it says FOLLOW THE GOD DAMNED BIBLE. This guy's an idiot.
@MarkVondrasek First of all John Piper is in no way an idiot, your comment is very disrespectful. "...he says Christians should take to 'Christians who accept some sins and still call themselves Christians...'" John preaches that we (Christians) are to make all out war against our sin and hate. While yes many churches now live at peace with sin, we refuse to because its heretical and undermines the sacrifice Christ paid.
So much for 'Christian love'. Ostracism is NOT loving. ANY form of love between two consensual adults is a GOOD thing. The buy-bull is CLEARLY full of baloney.
If you have a puzzle. you'l see that each puzzle piece fits wherever it was 'created' to be. Humans are like a puzzle because God created the penis to fit with the vagina in perfect physical harmony. But if you are trying to put your 'puzzle piece' where it doesnt belong then all we have in this world is a scrambled/incomplete puzzle board. nuff said.
@underoath4794, But have you read 2 Corinthians 5-11, Paul urged the Corinthians to show love and forgiveness to the offender, after they have disciplined the offender. So many Christians take verses of the Bible out from its context, and try to make hard, fast and prescriptive rules... It's indeed very sad!
@theexplorerjazzy I read 2 Cor. 5-11 and couldn't find anything...Do you mean 2 Cor. 2? I assume you do.. Anyway, I'm glad you raised it, because we have to read 2 Cor. 2 in conjunction w/ the 1 Cor 5 bit Piper is referencing. So what does Paul say in 2 Cor 2? Bring him back in and restore him! Why? Because he's crushed. Paul tells them to forgive him--presumably he was asking for forgiveness. Sounds just like the end of Piper's story/example, yes?
@underoath4794 its to be expected, I think...although it is sad...its sad because so many Christians seem to hear only what they want and like and the culture is PRESSING SO HARD on them to just GIVE IN and TOTALLY ACCEPT IT...they don't want tolerance, they want acceptance...and they're both bad.
@chicraig6421 "I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one." -from the bible...
@underoath4794, an interesting qoute from the Bible, yet out of context again. I say this because Jesus ate with sexually imoral people, tax collectors and sinners, and all Christians are called to be imitatiors of Christ. The Bible is the word of God, yet many books (Paul's letters) were written directly to certain people, at certain historical times, and then came to us. It's always important to remember this before attempting to interpret it rigidly.
@theexplorerjazzy It's not out of context..notice that the verse says "I wrote to you not to accociate with sexually immoral people-not at all meaning the sexually immoral OF THIS WORLD (non christians). Paul says that we need to associate with those people, but the ones that call themselves Christians are still do those things is a different story. We must lovingly call them out and if they refuse to repent, then non association comes into play.
@underoath4794, I appreciate your comment. However, ever so often "love" becomes a empty slogan seldomly practiced by some Christians, especially towards gay people, who were and still are percecuted and ostracised by the society. It seems the ONLY loving thing Christians can offer is "calling them out", if they don't "co-operate" then it's the end of a friendship. Where is the genuine concern for those people's wellfare, when they felt being left out on a limb and lonely?!
@theexplorerjazzy I totally agree that loving homosexuals is necessary as Christians, but for those homosexuals that claim Christianity, the most loving thing you can do is cut ties with them if they refuse to repent because it is a sin and if they don't have a heart that seeks repentance which is the essence of Christianity, then something is wrong. It would be the same with any other sin
@underoath4794, whether U agree or not isn't important, but what u DO abt it IS! When churches use "Holy Ostricism" as scare tactic, "love in action" just becomes intimidation&threat. PEOPLE no longer matter any more, it's ALL ABOUT what they do. Such churches r fully of hypocrites&pharisees-many consider themselves r saved, so they cast stone on others. If comitted&loving gay relationship is wrong, Y Jesus never condemned it?! Things Jesus condemned however, r taken lightly 2day!
@underoath4794, I said "it's out of the context" is because it's expressed in a "militant and disciplinary (not by God, but by mere man) spirit", not genuinely "loving&humble" spirit. The fact Mister John Piper said "the SHORT answer is they SHOULD do what I call Holy Ostracism". There shouldn't be a short answer! One must examine the whole situation carefully-if the gay Christian never felt being loved by that church therefore left, then that church is partically liable as well!
It is possible to come out of the disordered, broken anti-gay lifestyle. Even John Piper may one day manage to do it. Holy ostracism of such people may provide the push that they need.
If you want to watch true evil, made even more disgusting, loathsome and repulsive by the fact that it is hiding behind the noble religion of Christianity to push its cruelty, just watch this video. If you want to see a true Christian and hear a genuine Christian message watch "It Gets Better: Bishop Mark Hanson, ELCA" on YouTube.
@ComoEstas15 Well it's in the bible. And I have seen it work, BUT it has to be done in LOVE. Its something that you have to be careful to do it right. If it totally sucks to have to do that and it feels like its killing you, you are probably doing the right thing.
@candiceevans1: So you do not believe in an all sovereign God? What kind of help can you offer them when gay people feel unloved and rejected by their family and then by God's family... Go to watch "Prayers for Bobby" you would understand what I'm talking about.
"Holy Ostracism" is biblical, however, if a Christian has never genuinly and sacrificially loved this back-sliding brother or sister, what right does this Christian have to point at the speck in others eyes? Does a church then have the right to expose this brother/sister's sin to public grace and urge every member to excommunicate this sinner? No, that'll be an act of self-rightous hypocrisy!
Would John Piper stop loving his own children if one of them were gay? He probably will not on the ground that he has responsibilities for his own children. Blood family comes before church family - that all those conservative evangelical churches are like.
@MrFrostbite625, and YOU mister r yet another cold-blooded, so-called Evangelical "Christian". I've not mentioned ANYTHING about "born gay". I wonder what John Piper would comment on your calling me an "IDIOT", what St Paul would've responded to you (Ephesians 4:29). May Jesus forgive your vebal abuse to me (whether I am a Christian or not, you unkind comment is absolutely inexcuseable! Colossians 4:16), you should be ashamed of yourself, if you call yourself a Christian!!!
I called you and the other guys here idiots because you are quick to blaming people. I gave you a taste of your own medicine. J.Piper says something then you say it completely different. If you don't understand, ask, don't blame.
Cause I am seriously angry with people who call Mr.Piper a bigot just because they understood him incorrectly.
And if I offended you that much, I am sorry.
Still I will have to stop talking to you if you think homosexuality is ok and natural.
@MrFrostbite625, 1stly, I've checked thru ALL my comments on this video: not a SINGLE one of them used the word 'BIGOT'. u called ME (NOT others) 'AN IDIOT' & ur accusation is false! Secondly, God is Rightous, Just & Sovereign, therefore, I don't need YOU 2 give me a taste of my own medicine. Ur 'an eye for an eye' does not in any way reflect Christ's love&humility! Thirdly, everyone is entitled to their opinions, after all we follow Jesus, NOT John Piper! It's OK to disagree!
@MrFrostbite625, Jesus ate with sinners, Sad times U Mister, labled URSELF a "Homophobe" on ur Youtube account and would NOT speak to anyone differ from ur own opinion. Man seriously, you need to grow up!
@MrFrostbite625, how could anyone call you a bigot if you speak to people? I agree with you Jesus is not ok with sin, however, NOT in a single place in the Gospels did Jesus himself condemn loving&commited gay relationships. Jesus condemned the hyporisy and lovelessness of the pharisees more than anything else. He also condemned marrying someone who's divorced, and said it equals adultary - if you want to be consistant, shouldn't you go harder on hetero re-marriage?
@MrFrostbite625, In the OT, people like Abraham and King David all had more than one wives, yet God considered them men after their hearts. In fact God GAVE King David many wives (2 Samuel 12:8) ... How could you say "Every marriage that is not monogamic is an abomination?" I'm BY-NO-MEANS trying to endorse polygamy, i'm only trying to say it's dangerous to be obsessed with the word "abomination", and use it to elavate one group of people above another based on sexuality.
@MrFrostbite625, tell me what is the gay life-style?! Promiscuous? Unfaithful? Party-animals? lustful? I think Heterosexuals are not far from that school. U r not ok with people "born-gay", that's fine. Not all gay people believe they were born gay... Either it's nature or nurture, it's undeniable that gay people did not choose to be gay, just like straight people didn't choose to be straight. About the fact you want to avoid gay people, read 1 Corinthians 5:9-10.
@MrFrostbite625 Try this experiment: Become a homosexual with genuine feelings of attraction to someone of the same sex (assuming you are a heterosexual of course). If you are able to do this then you know that, for you at least, it is a choice. Don't worry, you can change back too if it's a choice. Fail, and it's pretty clear sexuality is not a choice for you.
Even if heterosexuals are single, they still have the hope of one day getting married & engaging in a loving relationship. For a gay person, there is no such a hope, one can holy-ostracise them and stop showing them love, many parents did that, which resulted in many gay teen's suicide. One can live without sex, but not without love. Can the church be a place of love for the hurting, heartbroken and socially ostracised? Can you ostracise someone if you hadn't loved them before they sinned?!
@theexplorerjazzy I've struggled with this very question. Your comment really convicts me. As a christian I think we have not loved people properly in many, many cases. To ostracize anyone without loving them first will just turn them away forever and this is so ungodly of us. I've done this myself. So, for all of those who we have treated this way...I pray for your forgiveness on behalf of all of us.
@68Aloha Thanks for your comment! The mark of a Christian is Christ-like love, both to all mankind (being made in the image of God, neigbours) and Christians (the same household of faith), the latter must be observable. In John 13:33-35, Jesus gave the unsaved world the prerogative to judge (in their view point, not God's) whether you and I are born-again on the basis of whether we show love to other Christians. Genuine love to one another (unity) is our final apologetic to the world. Peace! x
One of the very few of John Pipers teachings i dont agree with; as a christian i have no idea what i would do in this situation, but regardless, i cannot see this idea of holy ostracism as anything more than forcing someone to not sin, but for the wrong reasons (emotional blackmail).
I might make my beliefs known to them, but ultimately, it is their choice if they embrace a sin, and its not right for me to blackmail them, as this also would be a sin!
@ComoEstas15 It is supposed to alienate them. It is to show them that their lifestyle is alien to God's word. It forces people to choose between their own way and God's way.
Wanna know what your friends are REALLY going to say when you tell them that they can either share your religious beliefs or be happy with their loved one in a life without you in it? "See ya"
When dealing with a professing Christian who is willfully living in sin, there are two main ways to respond: Either give him comfort and false security, and speed him on his way on his blind rush toward hell, or warn him, plead with him, and if he doesn't turn, part ways with him. The first is cruel and damning; the second is loving and redemptive.
not deep. it's incredibly shallow. this guy and anyone who would do this needs to get over themselves and question whether they were the persons friend in the first place
Yes, frightening people through rejection that they will lose all of their friends and social standing is good and healthy. I love how you hide your sick intentions under the guise of "holy".
ridiculousness of caring about how and with whom the person gets it on with aside) and OSTRACIZE his friend. Completely dysfunctional, no matter what religion you are. My Ultra Traditional Catholic mom would probably hate this guy.
woah woah woah. "...Has entered a homosexual relationship..." #1. What is it Mr. Piper's business what people are doing in their beds, and #2. How does he even know they're doing anything in the first place? I find this criticism...creepy, because I'm a celibate person who doesn't mind entering into a same-sex romantic relationship. People like Mr. Piper freak me the fuck out. Basically, he is suggesting this man accuse someone of something that they may or may not have done (putting the
Wow, as the bible says "That's a hard teaching, who can accept it" I don't know many people who ostracize people who call themselves Christians and still do things that Christians shouldn't do. They think "Hey, that's between them and God; why should I loose my friendship with her because of her decisions"?...So that one may be a little outdated unless you belong to like, an Amish community or something where it's easy to be shunned and people would respond. In the real world I don't find that?
@bananabread119 Please don't judge us all by what this man says, I imagine the vast majority of Christians in this world would disagree with him. Christianity is about Jesus who's teachings echo love, grace, humility and kindness... not condemnation like this.
@alexrohan1 Christ also taught obedience. "Go and sin no more." "If you love me obey my commands." Much of the New Testament, including Christ's own words in Matthew 18 was written about proper judgement and Church discipline against professing Christians who are live unrepentant, sinful lives.
@alexrohan1 what are you talking about?We are to discipline out of love.We are to rebuke sin and not compromise with anybody for any reason.
"If he( brother who is sinning) refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as Gentile and a tax collector."
Go read Matthew 18:15-22 and snap out of the theology that because we are under grace, we can do anything we want and be.
@bananabread119 You hate us fulfilling Christ's words.You hate not us really-but the Christ in us.You hate holiness, you Hate God and his truth and want to go your own way-which will lead to death.
Oh may God grant you understanding and repentance.
@GodLovesUs100 ha Everything leads us to death my friend, such is the fate of all things that exist. You are so sad, I only wish you knew how wrong you are.
@GodLovesUs100 You truly are an idiot. Everything leads to death. Your Prophet has NOT defeated death. I wonder how you could even say that given you believe he's also your God? I would think any God could at least do that. haha
So basically who ever doesn't agree with you is wicked and sinful. You truly are a piece of shit, why can't you see that you Christians are the scum of society.
@bananabread119 Actually my Lord has defeated death and is your Lord as well ( as God has made Christ both Lord and Christ over ALL)...
Basically those who reject good are wicked.Ooooh- so much hate coming from you I can sense it.You love darkness rather than light because your deeds are evil.Christ was hated without a cause too.
There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.May God grant you understanding and truth.
Lord bless you, love and peace be to you.Have a nice day :)
@GodLovesUs100 (God has made Christ both Lord and Christ over ALL). ha NO in logic there's the "Law of Non-Contradiction" where something cannot be both itself and not itself. But yes ignorant ppl tend to upset me. So far you're only using abunch of presuppositions you're presupposing that God is good with out first demonstrating this. Then wile going off of this assumption you then project on me thinking that I'm evil and wicked. hahah
@bananabread119 Oh you ignorant poor and lost soul....as if God were somehow bound to the laws of the universe when he was the very one that brought them into existence.You act like somehow God is subject to the finite logic of mankind...that is the only laughable thing in this explanation.God is outside of space, time, and matter, he is outside of his creation(he can enter it if he pleases though and he did).Your logic is faulty and based off of fallible assumptions.Try again.
@bananabread119 God does not have to make complete sense to our finite minds...he is God, he is infinite, he is eternal and the only way we would understand how a being like that works completely is if we were infinite and eternal-but we're not.What people try to pass of as "philosophy" today cannot account for the completeness and understanding of God.He is outside of any law,that is why all things are possible with like.For example-he can be at more than one place at one time.
@GodLovesUs100 Sigh.. So lets see where we're at. You didn't address any of my points and now you're just "Goal posting" the argument. Moving the goal post back making the premise more vague and non comprehensible, this is a logical fallacy.
Jane: If all X's are A, ergo X cannot be B.
Bob: No you idiot X is GREATER! It defies even logic!!
But I must say that if something defies logic then how could we understand it? & why would it even try to defy logic if it wants use to believe? hmm..
@bananabread119 I did address your point.You're claiming that God is himself and yet not himself( ie x=a therefore x is not b).God does define FINITE logic, everything in this Universe(inside of space,time,and matter) is finite and therefore the laws of the universe certainly apply to all things with it...but God himself is not bound to the Universe as he is OUTSIDE of space, time, and matter.
@bananabread119 No, it is not, I did address your point.You cannot oppress the idea of something if you don't even do it in the right context of what's we're saying here.You cannot place God into a little box of "logic" that only the best of fallen, finite men can produce.I didn't define him out of existence, rather outside of the Universe meaning he is not bound by it.
@bananabread119 God is the originated of the Universe, we know it had a beginning because all space, time, and matter came into existence at some point, God did not, God always was and always will be and therefore is outside of these things.He is a Spirit(therefore not materialistic), he the same Yesterday,Today,and Forever and does not change,he is not bound to time which is why he can see the future.He is everywhere, you cannot escape God, therefore he is not bound to space.
@GodLovesUs100 ha Now you are contradicting yourself bec first you say that your God is outside of time, space and matter, then you say he is omnipresent or everywhere! haha
Sorry but logic is not limited, only existence is. So to even say that your God exist then he is therefor limited by existence. But logic understands this and is not limited by it.
@bananabread119 Again, you place him under limitations of your own finite understanding.Yes, God is everywhere,as in he sees all things and there is nothing that can be hidden from him, that makes him outside of space ie being any point in the universe, so if God can be at all places therefore that means he is not limited by space, like we are(like I can't be in America and Japan at one time).
@bananabread119 God is not limited, I am not saying logic is limited, I am saying your mind is limited and finite and cannot understand the full logic of God.
@bananabread119 dinosaurs and God are not the same thing.I never claimed humans do not have the ability to use logic but when it comes to God-our logic is too finite for full comprehension of him.Dinosaurs, like humans, are finite and therefore it is possible for us to logically evaluate them but God is an eternal and infinite, uncomprehending being....who can think in the mind of something infinite?Who knows the mind of God and who has been his counselor?
@GodLovesUs100 1stly I never said that Dinosaurs & God are the same thing that would be Strawmaning please don't start that. You are just making an 'appeal to ignorance" you're just assuming all of these things but you have yet failed to demonstrate them.
But saying something is everything yet is limited by nothing is NOT a definition of something. But In light of that I would like you to watch my video I did on "Omnipresent deity" Bec if God is defined this way then he cannot have a mind.
@bananabread119 You tried to compare using logic with finite beings to using logic with an infinite being.All I tried to point out was that you cannot do that because it is not even the same concept.You apparently are not grasping the fact that our minds, especially when unregenerate and blinded by sin, cannot grasp the full being of God, how he works, why he is the way he is, and why he does what he does and in what way.Using logic that pertains to finite things in simply fallacious at best.
@GodLovesUs100 facepalm! Listen to me very carefully, everything within existence is finite. We know this from Heraclitus, who predates Plato. Nothing that has ever been has been absolute, even the Universe itself changes. To say a chair exist "even though is true" is only a finite concept, as with everything that exist. The Chair will cease to be and so will I.
Yes?? In logic there are whats called Logic absolutes! "Law of identity, Law of excluded middle, Is-Ought dichotomy, Principle of sufficient reason" These are all logic absolutes but they are not things within themselves they are only absolute within there application or usage.
Note: This is also why the TAG argument for God fails!!!
@bananabread119 And I never claimed it was possible to fully understand and/or define God.We just take what he has revealed and also can come into personal relationship with him through his Son in which he illuminates our minds to understand godly things in a way we cannot do so in the flesh.
@bananabread119 And I say God is good because he has revealed himself that way.He is good because he is were purpose derives from, he is good because of his attributes, he is good because he is God and it is self evident that good has always prevailed over evil-like the good ole' example of loving someone who hates you being the "bigger person"...therefore anything in opposition to God, his will, and his purpose is wickedness.
@bananabread119 And by the way-Christ and Lord are one and the same.Christ is Lord and the Lord is the Christ....there is not even any contradiction there.
What should a christian do to a christian friend that eats seafood...since you know shellfish is an abomination according to the bible. Oh wait that's right "christians" that aren't christ like at all pick and choose sins. That's why see christians stuffing their face at Long Johns Silvers while proclaiming to be godly homosexual hating people.
so let me get this straight. sin is worth withholding love? I won't even go into gay love here. someone *else* being gay and calling themselves christian is worth withholding your love from them? that's just sick.
as someone who struggles with homosexual desires i wish i had a friend like he described. I do believe it is biological, but i believe that gives me no excuse. Everyone is born in sin, but what we do is what damns us.
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you i will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Phil. 1:6
Even though we all sin, we have a God who has walked the same dark paths that we have who will be with us to help us conquer our sin.
If you have already accepted Jesus then he has already done all the heavy lifting for you on the cross by taking the punishment you deserved for your sin. You just need to stay in his Word and in prayer.
@Barnabas64 God gives us the strength to combat sin, salvation isnt a flu shot its a progressive sanctification
sure as soon as faith is formed in your heart you are saved but God is still "saving" you on a daily baises, if you do not start living like a christian then you prove you never became one. Not perfect but a progressive process of becoming like Christ
Ostracism wont work with a gay person. People are born gay. The gay person will think, "well, that person really isn't worth being my friend if s/he doesn't accept me for who I am." Ostracism will destroy the friendship and may end up destroying the gay person's Christian faith.
"Holy Ostracism' ? So how does that work, you have lunch - basically say - I am rejecting you - implying you are less of a person than I am - but its 'Holy' so its okay. How can he talk about 'the love of Christ' with a straight face. He is pontificating as if HE is God. There are two types of people in this world - those that 'Holy Ostracise' others and those who live their life with respect for their fellow human beings and with a kind heart.
After watching this video, I'm kind of confused about the things he stated. But to keep it short, love is love. There is nothing wrong with it, in any form. You can argue that love between an animal and human is wrong, adult and child etc. That's not love though. Only you know when you're really in love, and that is never, ever wrong.
Remember, {John 3:16} For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Well yes, love is love, but we cannot profess to love God, and yet also love our sin. We cannot claim to love God and yet break his commandments (John 14:15). While we are unrepentant sinners, our first love is sin. We're in love with sin and the world, and that is always wrong.
Repentance is key to salvation. John the Baptist called us to repentance (Matt 3.2), Jesus called us to repentance (Luke 3.5), then Paul and the other apostles did (Acts 17.30), and homosexuality is a sin (Rom 1.24-27)
Believe me, I know all about what the Bible "says" about homosexuality. If you study it, you will find that it's not talking about homosexuality in the way we see it today.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that love is ever wrong. The ninth commandment states "Thou shalt not bear false witness," and by me "changing" to like females (I'm male) would be bearing false witness on myself, claiming that I'm someone I'm not. I thank God for who I am. How about instead of pointing fingers and saying that someone is a sinner for what God made them, we cherish and rejoice for their differences? Just as we do for those of different races and color.
Really? Wow... I guess Romans 1:18-32 isn't clear enough on homosexuality... :-/
Oh, and I won't rejoice in our differences. Why? Simple. "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov. 16:4). Your lifestyle is wicked in the eyes of God and your "excuses" derived from the 9th commandment is nothing more than an abuse of God's word to justify the evil you so love.
I will not continue to argue this. Your opinion is your opinion. You can continue to discriminate and hold prejudices against people and back that up with God. But I will not, I will love everyone and follow Him. I thank God for who I am and my "wicked, chosen lifestyle."
@CmRoddy Yes, Romans 1:18-32 is not clear enough. Are verses 28-31 referring to gay people? Are gay people uniquely unrighteous, fornicators, wicked, covetous, malicious, full of envy, etc., or many people are but all gay people are. I don't think either interpretation holds.
This is absolutely awful. This is why queer people are afraid to come out. The possibility of being shunned and rejected by your family and friends is the most terrifying idea ever. Many would rather hide themselves and hate themselves forever before risking this "holy ostracism."
God is love. The spirit of God is shown and felt when we love and accept each other, no matter how we identify.
You've broken the second commandment and made a false god for yourself - a god who doesn't care about sin, but, in the name of "love" will let anything go. God is love, therefore he must hate. He cannot love both good and evil, for they are opposites. Here's a verse you never find on a t-shirt or bumper-sticker - Psalm 5.5.
God's love is shown not in an acceptance of sin, but when he makes a way out the only way he can, punishing his own Son for our sin. (Romans 5.8, Isaiah 53.5, Isaiah 53.10).
one thing i see wrong with this is that often with homosexuality, it's not people saying "this is sin, but that's okay... i've made 'peace' with it." often people believe that it is truly not wrong and that there are other ways to interpret sections of the Bible. "holy ostracism" would just push her/him away from christianity/the church. I think everyone disagrees on different parts of the Bible, and to end a friendship because of that seems wrong.
here's the problem with your aurguement. there are many rules/laws in the bible that so many of you so-called christians disregard just becaues you don't want to do them. then when they're pointed out to you you says that they don't apply to you because it was a different time or that part of the bible is part of the christian belief. make up your minds already, either you believe all of it or none of it. you can't pick and choose which so far is what every "christian" does.
This argument is not Biblical. 6 texts advocate shunning in Scripture - eg 1 Cor 5 where a man is having sex with his father's wife. Such behaviour is proscribed even in the pagan culture of the day. The man to be shunned is someone who claims to be Christian yet is consciously sinning. Ditto the other passages. There is no Biblical case for shunning individuals - or churches - who are sincerely acting in good faith, even if we believe they are very wrong. Gracious teaching, not condemnation...
Does he really believe that "holy ostracism" is the correct way to proselytize and show love to the "outsider"? That is utterly ridiculous! The homosexual is not for an instant going to change his mind about his faith. People change their religious affiliation after seeing something they desire in another faith.
the problem with his story about the sexually active girl is that she was just being a sloot. She can always get married and then fuck her brains out but homosexuals arn't allowed to be wed so the never get the pleasure. personally though i would rather be "holy ostrisized" then have bigot who believe in witchcraft be my friends.
I personally don't own a bible...but I travel often and do get the opportunity to use the ones that are left in hotel rooms....to wipe my ass with, if there is no toilet paper...
I dont think Piper is correct. Each of us sin daily, and to pick one sin that deserves ostracism while ignoring all the rest seems hyprocritical. Its a tough issue but I think we should try to explain to them their sin and need of repentance, and lift them up in prayer every day, but not ignore them.
We do sin, but, if we are Christians, our sin will grieve us. He's saying that if a person is in a pattern of sin, and does not see it as wrong, that we should not fellowship with them. The problem isn't the sin, the problem is unrepentance.
JP is right on target on this one. there is no arguing with his explanation.
cmdesign01 3 days ago
@chicraig6421 Jesus saved me with their "optional Sunday morning worship service", then slowly unblinded me and pulled me out =\. Are you really sure you're saved? All those cults and people who say they are Christians (but are not) think they are saved too, but don't realize how much danger they were in until God opens their eyes.
falkenjeff 1 week ago
@falkenjeff You ask 'R U really sure you're saved?" I don't know that any of us really know if we are really saved. I can only relate my experiences as a human with all my faults (I do not include homosexuality as a fault), repent and pray to Christ. In the end only God can judge. If I live as close to a Christian life as Jesus taught us as I can, in the end I will be judged.
Thanks for you comments and thoughts
chicraig6421 1 week ago
You may not say 'God hates fags' as Fred Phelps a Southern Baptist does,but the effect is the same
chicraig6421 1 week ago 4
It's interesting that people frequently use Romans Chpt 1 to condemn EVEN loving&commited same sex relationships. Whereas in Romans Chapter 2 Paul says "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things." So if people do want to qoute the Bible verses (from their contexts) & condemn GAY people, why don't they examine their OWN hearts FIRST?!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago 2
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theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 have you read Romans 1? Why would it call same-sex relations a "shameful lust" if it was not a sin? You can call it opinion, but I'm just reading God's book. If you give in to your desires and have sex with a man, thats just as bad as me opening some porn or buying a prostitute
falkenjeff 1 week ago
@falkenjeff Again thank you for your honest opinion. We do not agree on what Paul meant in his letters to Romans. I do not see anywhere in Romans where homosexuality is a sin, simply not there. I agree lust is a sin - its 1 of the 10 Commandments actually. However I think you would find heterosexual lust is not different that homosexual lust - lust is lust its a sin.
May God bless you and keep you near.
chicraig6421 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 how can you see something other than that? =\.
Usually if you have to try that hard, you're not trying to be discerning and get insight, you're trying to blind yourself. I'm sorry you can't see it dude. I almost got sucked in to a cult-like "word of faith" group. I really wanted to see it, but the holy spirit convicted me, no matter how hard I tried to twist the word to make their "speaking your desires into existence" and prosperity teachings seem true.
falkenjeff 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 I really wanted to build my Amway business with their system, and everywhere outside all I saw was blatant prosperity teaching (eg: Joel Osteen), not the exact duplicate of what they were teaching, so I thought they weren't actually twisting God's word. The Holy Spirit showed me things, and I blatantly ignored them because they didn't match perfectly. I blinded myself. It wasn't until an author was recommended to me when I asked about Christian books
falkenjeff 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 that author was completely connected to something called the "word of faith" movement, which was exactly what they were teaching, and it was almost like the Holy Spirit slapped me across the face, and was like "I told you, you weren't listening"
I know how it feels to blind yourself. See it before your heart is completely stone. It really sucks man, don't do it to yourself.
falkenjeff 1 week ago
@falkenjeff Be careful of cults, some call themselves Christian, and they are not.
Jesus did save me, I thought I mentioned that. Jesus also saved my partner. Actually is was Christ that brought the 2 of us together, 17 years, married -Iowa- and counting.
My partner was a Pentecostal preacher traveled the world to spread the word, tossed of the old USSR and China.
We are both Christians, unlike Piper who for me anyway is suspect and a bigot spreading lies, crap Christianity, not Christ like.
chicraig6421 1 week ago
"For the Supernatural, entering a human soul, opens to it new possibilities both of good and evil. From that point the road branches: one way to sanctity, love, humility, the other to spiritual pride, self-righteousness, persecuting zeal. And no way back to the humdrum virtues of the unawakened soul. If the Divine call does not make us better, it will make us much worse. Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst." --- C.S. Lewis Reflections on the Psalms AMEN!!!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 all sexual sin is the same and equally bad. Pornography, sex before marriage, adultery, sex/marriage with someone who is the same sex as you... It's all bad. You say God loves me as I am. Before Christ, "who I was" was a person who would have lusted after anything or anyone. I'm blessed to never have actually committed fornication, because I would have reaped something bad and permanent, I know it.
falkenjeff 3 weeks ago
@falkenjeff Thank you for your opinion, but you are flat out wrong as is Piper - homosexuality is not a sin.
chicraig6421 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 Are you kidding me? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 PLAINLY says that homosexual is a sin. I don't know what Bible YOU'RE reading, but it's not the Christian Bible. Stop spreading false doctrine. There is a difference between loving someone and damning them. You're doing the latter.
Jesus0is0my0Savior 3 weeks ago
One can be gay, & Christian, there is no conflict. God made u & loves u just as u are. You are not an abomination Lev died with Christ on the cross. When my fellow Christians say u are disordered, your life is not acceptable to God; know they are flat out wrong. God does not want you to change, he made you who you are. I know hate hurts, some Churches/preachers hurt; know they r flat out wrong. Gay is not a sin, not in the Bible. 4 help The Trevor Project is there - 866 4UTREVOR. God loves you
chicraig6421 3 weeks ago
@chicraig6421, Thank you for your comment! It's people like you who makes Youtube a better place!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Homosexuality is seeming barred by Mosaic Law, much of which, such as divorce, was contested by Christ leaving parts of the Law He didn't mention in question. Paul seems to condemn it in 1 Cor. but it is in reference to prostitution. Neither this nor the pagan orgy he mentioned in Rom. is reflective of all homosexual relations any more than the prostitute who bathed Christ's feet with her tears or David and Bathsheba's affair is of all heterosexuals unions.
chicraig6421 3 weeks ago
You may not say 'God hates fags' as Fred Phelps a Southern Baptist does,but the effect is the same.
chicraig6421 2 months ago
So let me see here, if my son (or daughter) tells me they are homosexual, and in a homosexual relationship;I should toss them out. Did I get that correct?
!st. Mr. Piper, Jesus said not 1 word about homosexuals did he? 2nd, the BIble is actually silent on the subject, so why are you preaching this hate?
3rd, Thank God there are good Christians out there that do not preach your brand of crap isn't that true? 4th. You want to turn people away from Christ if there are gay correct?
Last, U R nuts.
chicraig6421 2 months ago
@chicraig6421
The bible is not silent on this subject.
Kelbstr 3 weeks ago
@Kelbstr Yes the Bible is silent on homosexuality as a sin. The Bible is not silent on homosexual acts and there is a difference. Those doing homosexual acts in the Bible are not homosexuals but heterosexuals doing sex acts to please their pagan gods, for prostitution, and using boys as toys. Actually the last is why Paul wrote Romans. You need to read in context.There is no difference between hetro or homosexual sin, the only difference is who they fall in love with
God loves all HIs kids.
chicraig6421 3 weeks ago
What this idiot fails to grasp is that the attitude that he says Christians should take to "Christians who accept some sins and still call themselves Christians" should be applied to all modern Christians because the church has said:
MarkVondrasek 2 months ago
1. slavery is not ok (the Bible says it is) and 2. Women can talk in church (the Bible says they shouldn't). This man is applying bible verses to other people that also apply to every christian alive today. The Bible doesn't say "dont eat with people who disobey what the church currently teaches" it says FOLLOW THE GOD DAMNED BIBLE. This guy's an idiot.
MarkVondrasek 2 months ago
@MarkVondrasek First of all John Piper is in no way an idiot, your comment is very disrespectful. "...he says Christians should take to 'Christians who accept some sins and still call themselves Christians...'" John preaches that we (Christians) are to make all out war against our sin and hate. While yes many churches now live at peace with sin, we refuse to because its heretical and undermines the sacrifice Christ paid.
definitiongrace 1 month ago
How can ANY form of love between two consenting adults be wicked? The Buy Bull deserves it's name!
sitemountain 2 months ago
So much for 'Christian love'. Ostracism is NOT loving. ANY form of love between two consensual adults is a GOOD thing. The buy-bull is CLEARLY full of baloney.
sitemountain 2 months ago
If you have a puzzle. you'l see that each puzzle piece fits wherever it was 'created' to be. Humans are like a puzzle because God created the penis to fit with the vagina in perfect physical harmony. But if you are trying to put your 'puzzle piece' where it doesnt belong then all we have in this world is a scrambled/incomplete puzzle board. nuff said.
TheIsweem 3 months ago
this is ignorance on a grand scale
scorand 4 months ago
@scorand Indeed it is. It's also plain cruel.
Foreversilverblood 4 months ago
@Foreversilverblood not that it ever stopped them from doing it.
scorand 4 months ago
Ha ha ha!!!
This guy doesn't want to say "KICK HIM OUT" so he is trying to make up a bullshit excuse that will slowly do the same thing.
This is all the religious types can do now! Ha ha ha!!!
MegaCrevice 4 months ago
Why are so many Christians in disagreement with this video? The bible clearly says exactly what John Piper is saying in 1 Corinthians 5
underoath4794 4 months ago 12
@underoath4794, But have you read 2 Corinthians 5-11, Paul urged the Corinthians to show love and forgiveness to the offender, after they have disciplined the offender. So many Christians take verses of the Bible out from its context, and try to make hard, fast and prescriptive rules... It's indeed very sad!
theexplorerjazzy 3 months ago
@theexplorerjazzy I read 2 Cor. 5-11 and couldn't find anything...Do you mean 2 Cor. 2? I assume you do.. Anyway, I'm glad you raised it, because we have to read 2 Cor. 2 in conjunction w/ the 1 Cor 5 bit Piper is referencing. So what does Paul say in 2 Cor 2? Bring him back in and restore him! Why? Because he's crushed. Paul tells them to forgive him--presumably he was asking for forgiveness. Sounds just like the end of Piper's story/example, yes?
brhodes625 3 months ago
@underoath4794 You're an idiot.
MarkVondrasek 2 months ago
@underoath4794 its to be expected, I think...although it is sad...its sad because so many Christians seem to hear only what they want and like and the culture is PRESSING SO HARD on them to just GIVE IN and TOTALLY ACCEPT IT...they don't want tolerance, they want acceptance...and they're both bad.
JesusServant110 2 weeks ago
@underoath4794 The Bible does not say what Piper says. Read the Bible in context.
Piper is flat out wrong - again.
chicraig6421 1 week ago
@chicraig6421 "I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one." -from the bible...
underoath4794 1 week ago
@underoath4794, an interesting qoute from the Bible, yet out of context again. I say this because Jesus ate with sexually imoral people, tax collectors and sinners, and all Christians are called to be imitatiors of Christ. The Bible is the word of God, yet many books (Paul's letters) were written directly to certain people, at certain historical times, and then came to us. It's always important to remember this before attempting to interpret it rigidly.
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@theexplorerjazzy It's not out of context..notice that the verse says "I wrote to you not to accociate with sexually immoral people-not at all meaning the sexually immoral OF THIS WORLD (non christians). Paul says that we need to associate with those people, but the ones that call themselves Christians are still do those things is a different story. We must lovingly call them out and if they refuse to repent, then non association comes into play.
underoath4794 1 week ago
@underoath4794, I appreciate your comment. However, ever so often "love" becomes a empty slogan seldomly practiced by some Christians, especially towards gay people, who were and still are percecuted and ostracised by the society. It seems the ONLY loving thing Christians can offer is "calling them out", if they don't "co-operate" then it's the end of a friendship. Where is the genuine concern for those people's wellfare, when they felt being left out on a limb and lonely?!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@theexplorerjazzy I totally agree that loving homosexuals is necessary as Christians, but for those homosexuals that claim Christianity, the most loving thing you can do is cut ties with them if they refuse to repent because it is a sin and if they don't have a heart that seeks repentance which is the essence of Christianity, then something is wrong. It would be the same with any other sin
underoath4794 1 week ago
@underoath4794, whether U agree or not isn't important, but what u DO abt it IS! When churches use "Holy Ostricism" as scare tactic, "love in action" just becomes intimidation&threat. PEOPLE no longer matter any more, it's ALL ABOUT what they do. Such churches r fully of hypocrites&pharisees-many consider themselves r saved, so they cast stone on others. If comitted&loving gay relationship is wrong, Y Jesus never condemned it?! Things Jesus condemned however, r taken lightly 2day!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@underoath4794, I said "it's out of the context" is because it's expressed in a "militant and disciplinary (not by God, but by mere man) spirit", not genuinely "loving&humble" spirit. The fact Mister John Piper said "the SHORT answer is they SHOULD do what I call Holy Ostracism". There shouldn't be a short answer! One must examine the whole situation carefully-if the gay Christian never felt being loved by that church therefore left, then that church is partically liable as well!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
God should be able to love all of his children and not condem them.
everything you say is b.s., and i believe its becoming pretty evident that you cannot reason with IGNORANCE.
7SidesLayered 5 months ago
This advice is sickening and destructive.
What a sad world we live in.
MRNIIK 5 months ago
It is possible to come out of the disordered, broken anti-gay lifestyle. Even John Piper may one day manage to do it. Holy ostracism of such people may provide the push that they need.
gaiopescatore 6 months ago
If you want to watch true evil, made even more disgusting, loathsome and repulsive by the fact that it is hiding behind the noble religion of Christianity to push its cruelty, just watch this video. If you want to see a true Christian and hear a genuine Christian message watch "It Gets Better: Bishop Mark Hanson, ELCA" on YouTube.
RCSVirginia 8 months ago 3
@ComoEstas15 Well it's in the bible. And I have seen it work, BUT it has to be done in LOVE. Its something that you have to be careful to do it right. If it totally sucks to have to do that and it feels like its killing you, you are probably doing the right thing.
TheHappyBunny91 8 months ago
@candiceevans1: So you do not believe in an all sovereign God? What kind of help can you offer them when gay people feel unloved and rejected by their family and then by God's family... Go to watch "Prayers for Bobby" you would understand what I'm talking about.
theexplorerjazzy 9 months ago
"Holy Ostracism" is biblical, however, if a Christian has never genuinly and sacrificially loved this back-sliding brother or sister, what right does this Christian have to point at the speck in others eyes? Does a church then have the right to expose this brother/sister's sin to public grace and urge every member to excommunicate this sinner? No, that'll be an act of self-rightous hypocrisy!
theexplorerjazzy 9 months ago
Would John Piper stop loving his own children if one of them were gay? He probably will not on the ground that he has responsibilities for his own children. Blood family comes before church family - that all those conservative evangelical churches are like.
theexplorerjazzy 9 months ago
You are an idiot.
John Piper said in this video that you apply the holy ostracism, in other words, you try changing the person.
You are saying that if one of Piper's children were gay he would throw the child out in the blink of an eye.
No, J.Piper explains truth to many people and he would explain it to one of his children in order to save the child's soul.
I bet you are another one of those people who believe that a person is "born gay".
So there is no use speaking to you.
MrFrostbite625 2 weeks ago
@MrFrostbite625, and YOU mister r yet another cold-blooded, so-called Evangelical "Christian". I've not mentioned ANYTHING about "born gay". I wonder what John Piper would comment on your calling me an "IDIOT", what St Paul would've responded to you (Ephesians 4:29). May Jesus forgive your vebal abuse to me (whether I am a Christian or not, you unkind comment is absolutely inexcuseable! Colossians 4:16), you should be ashamed of yourself, if you call yourself a Christian!!!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
I called you and the other guys here idiots because you are quick to blaming people. I gave you a taste of your own medicine. J.Piper says something then you say it completely different. If you don't understand, ask, don't blame.
Cause I am seriously angry with people who call Mr.Piper a bigot just because they understood him incorrectly.
And if I offended you that much, I am sorry.
Still I will have to stop talking to you if you think homosexuality is ok and natural.
MrFrostbite625 1 week ago
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theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
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@MrFrostbite625, 1stly, I've checked thru ALL my comments on this video: not a SINGLE one of them used the word 'BIGOT'. u called ME (NOT others) 'AN IDIOT' & ur accusation is false! Secondly, God is Rightous, Just & Sovereign, therefore, I don't need YOU 2 give me a taste of my own medicine. Ur 'an eye for an eye' does not in any way reflect Christ's love&humility! Thirdly, everyone is entitled to their opinions, after all we follow Jesus, NOT John Piper! It's OK to disagree!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
* it's Colossians 4:6
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@MrFrostbite625, Jesus ate with sinners, Sad times U Mister, labled URSELF a "Homophobe" on ur Youtube account and would NOT speak to anyone differ from ur own opinion. Man seriously, you need to grow up!
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
The one who needs to grow up is you.
If I speak with everyone, I am a bigot.
If I speak only with people who understand me, I'm intolerant.
Jesus ate with sinners, but that doesn't mean he was ok with their sin.
Speaking with stubborn gay people, who claim to be born gay and are "married with kids", is a waste of time.
As if they will divorce their gay partners, realize they are sinners and fight their homosexuality just because some stranger told them.
It won't happen.
MrFrostbite625 1 week ago
@MrFrostbite625, how could anyone call you a bigot if you speak to people? I agree with you Jesus is not ok with sin, however, NOT in a single place in the Gospels did Jesus himself condemn loving&commited gay relationships. Jesus condemned the hyporisy and lovelessness of the pharisees more than anything else. He also condemned marrying someone who's divorced, and said it equals adultary - if you want to be consistant, shouldn't you go harder on hetero re-marriage?
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
And before you say that "I hate":
I don't hate gay people, I hate gay lifestyle.
I avoid gay people so that they don't think I am ok with their way of life, because I am not.
Here is my point
1man + 1woman = natural and normal marriage.
Every marriage that is not monogamic and heterosexual is an abomination.
So I don't want to be surrounded by gay people on the streets and be asked questions like "Why don't you support homosexual marriages"
MrFrostbite625 1 week ago
@MrFrostbite625, In the OT, people like Abraham and King David all had more than one wives, yet God considered them men after their hearts. In fact God GAVE King David many wives (2 Samuel 12:8) ... How could you say "Every marriage that is not monogamic is an abomination?" I'm BY-NO-MEANS trying to endorse polygamy, i'm only trying to say it's dangerous to be obsessed with the word "abomination", and use it to elavate one group of people above another based on sexuality.
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@MrFrostbite625, tell me what is the gay life-style?! Promiscuous? Unfaithful? Party-animals? lustful? I think Heterosexuals are not far from that school. U r not ok with people "born-gay", that's fine. Not all gay people believe they were born gay... Either it's nature or nurture, it's undeniable that gay people did not choose to be gay, just like straight people didn't choose to be straight. About the fact you want to avoid gay people, read 1 Corinthians 5:9-10.
theexplorerjazzy 1 week ago
@MrFrostbite625 Try this experiment: Become a homosexual with genuine feelings of attraction to someone of the same sex (assuming you are a heterosexual of course). If you are able to do this then you know that, for you at least, it is a choice. Don't worry, you can change back too if it's a choice. Fail, and it's pretty clear sexuality is not a choice for you.
chicraig6421 1 week ago
HAHAHAHAHA!
You think I didn't see you type that comment about a 100 times on this video now.
MrFrostbite625 1 week ago
Even if heterosexuals are single, they still have the hope of one day getting married & engaging in a loving relationship. For a gay person, there is no such a hope, one can holy-ostracise them and stop showing them love, many parents did that, which resulted in many gay teen's suicide. One can live without sex, but not without love. Can the church be a place of love for the hurting, heartbroken and socially ostracised? Can you ostracise someone if you hadn't loved them before they sinned?!
theexplorerjazzy 9 months ago
@theexplorerjazzy I've struggled with this very question. Your comment really convicts me. As a christian I think we have not loved people properly in many, many cases. To ostracize anyone without loving them first will just turn them away forever and this is so ungodly of us. I've done this myself. So, for all of those who we have treated this way...I pray for your forgiveness on behalf of all of us.
68Aloha 7 months ago
@68Aloha Thanks for your comment! The mark of a Christian is Christ-like love, both to all mankind (being made in the image of God, neigbours) and Christians (the same household of faith), the latter must be observable. In John 13:33-35, Jesus gave the unsaved world the prerogative to judge (in their view point, not God's) whether you and I are born-again on the basis of whether we show love to other Christians. Genuine love to one another (unity) is our final apologetic to the world. Peace! x
theexplorerjazzy 7 months ago
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theexplorerjazzy 9 months ago
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TheBigred1212 9 months ago
One of the very few of John Pipers teachings i dont agree with; as a christian i have no idea what i would do in this situation, but regardless, i cannot see this idea of holy ostracism as anything more than forcing someone to not sin, but for the wrong reasons (emotional blackmail).
I might make my beliefs known to them, but ultimately, it is their choice if they embrace a sin, and its not right for me to blackmail them, as this also would be a sin!
beelzzebub 9 months ago
@ComoEstas15 It is supposed to alienate them. It is to show them that their lifestyle is alien to God's word. It forces people to choose between their own way and God's way.
1111UltraViolet1111 9 months ago
EWWWWWWW
littlemonkey613 9 months ago
Perfectly said
lisaks05 10 months ago
Excellent advice Pastor PIper !
ronathanedwards 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Wanna know what your friends are REALLY going to say when you tell them that they can either share your religious beliefs or be happy with their loved one in a life without you in it? "See ya"
jmtramel 11 months ago
Comment removed
jmtramel 11 months ago
Tell your homosexual friend that it is OK to be gay.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
@UrukEngineer yes but only if you dont like him :)
Plpoo 1 year ago
Great morals, that little book called the bible has! Lemme tell ya!
nthomas87 1 year ago
@nthomas87 yes it really does.
fishgills2009 11 months ago
When dealing with a professing Christian who is willfully living in sin, there are two main ways to respond: Either give him comfort and false security, and speed him on his way on his blind rush toward hell, or warn him, plead with him, and if he doesn't turn, part ways with him. The first is cruel and damning; the second is loving and redemptive.
scmeyeratgmaildotcom 1 year ago 29
@scmeyeratgmaildotcom Amen! That's so true and deep!
ddfrisky 5 months ago
not deep. it's incredibly shallow. this guy and anyone who would do this needs to get over themselves and question whether they were the persons friend in the first place
11984cross 5 months ago
Yes, frightening people through rejection that they will lose all of their friends and social standing is good and healthy. I love how you hide your sick intentions under the guise of "holy".
Ozma3000 1 year ago
cont.
ridiculousness of caring about how and with whom the person gets it on with aside) and OSTRACIZE his friend. Completely dysfunctional, no matter what religion you are. My Ultra Traditional Catholic mom would probably hate this guy.
bremen93 1 year ago
woah woah woah. "...Has entered a homosexual relationship..." #1. What is it Mr. Piper's business what people are doing in their beds, and #2. How does he even know they're doing anything in the first place? I find this criticism...creepy, because I'm a celibate person who doesn't mind entering into a same-sex romantic relationship. People like Mr. Piper freak me the fuck out. Basically, he is suggesting this man accuse someone of something that they may or may not have done (putting the
bremen93 1 year ago
Wow, as the bible says "That's a hard teaching, who can accept it" I don't know many people who ostracize people who call themselves Christians and still do things that Christians shouldn't do. They think "Hey, that's between them and God; why should I loose my friendship with her because of her decisions"?...So that one may be a little outdated unless you belong to like, an Amish community or something where it's easy to be shunned and people would respond. In the real world I don't find that?
atlasshrugged2u 1 year ago
Holy Ostracism? I think I'm going to cry I hate Christians so much.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 Please don't judge us all by what this man says, I imagine the vast majority of Christians in this world would disagree with him. Christianity is about Jesus who's teachings echo love, grace, humility and kindness... not condemnation like this.
alexrohan1 1 year ago
@alexrohan1 Christ also taught obedience. "Go and sin no more." "If you love me obey my commands." Much of the New Testament, including Christ's own words in Matthew 18 was written about proper judgement and Church discipline against professing Christians who are live unrepentant, sinful lives.
OfWrathAndGrace 1 year ago
@alexrohan1 what are you talking about?We are to discipline out of love.We are to rebuke sin and not compromise with anybody for any reason.
"If he( brother who is sinning) refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as Gentile and a tax collector."
Go read Matthew 18:15-22 and snap out of the theology that because we are under grace, we can do anything we want and be.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 You hate us fulfilling Christ's words.You hate not us really-but the Christ in us.You hate holiness, you Hate God and his truth and want to go your own way-which will lead to death.
Oh may God grant you understanding and repentance.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 ha Everything leads us to death my friend, such is the fate of all things that exist. You are so sad, I only wish you knew how wrong you are.
Hugs, em
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 Sin leads to death, lies lead to death, rejection of God leads to death.
Christ leads to Life Eternal for he has conquered death and it has no dominion over him.
I only wish you could see the wickedness of your own heart...Oh that the Lord may grant you truth and repentance.
Lord bless.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 You truly are an idiot. Everything leads to death. Your Prophet has NOT defeated death. I wonder how you could even say that given you believe he's also your God? I would think any God could at least do that. haha
So basically who ever doesn't agree with you is wicked and sinful. You truly are a piece of shit, why can't you see that you Christians are the scum of society.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 Actually my Lord has defeated death and is your Lord as well ( as God has made Christ both Lord and Christ over ALL)...
Basically those who reject good are wicked.Ooooh- so much hate coming from you I can sense it.You love darkness rather than light because your deeds are evil.Christ was hated without a cause too.
There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.May God grant you understanding and truth.
Lord bless you, love and peace be to you.Have a nice day :)
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 (God has made Christ both Lord and Christ over ALL). ha NO in logic there's the "Law of Non-Contradiction" where something cannot be both itself and not itself. But yes ignorant ppl tend to upset me. So far you're only using abunch of presuppositions you're presupposing that God is good with out first demonstrating this. Then wile going off of this assumption you then project on me thinking that I'm evil and wicked. hahah
May reason guide you from your delusions, em <3
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 Oh you ignorant poor and lost soul....as if God were somehow bound to the laws of the universe when he was the very one that brought them into existence.You act like somehow God is subject to the finite logic of mankind...that is the only laughable thing in this explanation.God is outside of space, time, and matter, he is outside of his creation(he can enter it if he pleases though and he did).Your logic is faulty and based off of fallible assumptions.Try again.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 God does not have to make complete sense to our finite minds...he is God, he is infinite, he is eternal and the only way we would understand how a being like that works completely is if we were infinite and eternal-but we're not.What people try to pass of as "philosophy" today cannot account for the completeness and understanding of God.He is outside of any law,that is why all things are possible with like.For example-he can be at more than one place at one time.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 with him***
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Sigh.. So lets see where we're at. You didn't address any of my points and now you're just "Goal posting" the argument. Moving the goal post back making the premise more vague and non comprehensible, this is a logical fallacy.
Jane: If all X's are A, ergo X cannot be B.
Bob: No you idiot X is GREATER! It defies even logic!!
But I must say that if something defies logic then how could we understand it? & why would it even try to defy logic if it wants use to believe? hmm..
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 I did address your point.You're claiming that God is himself and yet not himself( ie x=a therefore x is not b).God does define FINITE logic, everything in this Universe(inside of space,time,and matter) is finite and therefore the laws of the universe certainly apply to all things with it...but God himself is not bound to the Universe as he is OUTSIDE of space, time, and matter.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 THAT IS GOAL POSTING! But to say that God is outside of time, matter and space, then you've simply defined hm out of existence.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 No, it is not, I did address your point.You cannot oppress the idea of something if you don't even do it in the right context of what's we're saying here.You cannot place God into a little box of "logic" that only the best of fallen, finite men can produce.I didn't define him out of existence, rather outside of the Universe meaning he is not bound by it.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 God is the originated of the Universe, we know it had a beginning because all space, time, and matter came into existence at some point, God did not, God always was and always will be and therefore is outside of these things.He is a Spirit(therefore not materialistic), he the same Yesterday,Today,and Forever and does not change,he is not bound to time which is why he can see the future.He is everywhere, you cannot escape God, therefore he is not bound to space.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 ha Now you are contradicting yourself bec first you say that your God is outside of time, space and matter, then you say he is omnipresent or everywhere! haha
Sorry but logic is not limited, only existence is. So to even say that your God exist then he is therefor limited by existence. But logic understands this and is not limited by it.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 Again, you place him under limitations of your own finite understanding.Yes, God is everywhere,as in he sees all things and there is nothing that can be hidden from him, that makes him outside of space ie being any point in the universe, so if God can be at all places therefore that means he is not limited by space, like we are(like I can't be in America and Japan at one time).
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 God is not limited, I am not saying logic is limited, I am saying your mind is limited and finite and cannot understand the full logic of God.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 To say God is subject to the laws of the Universe would be, again, like I said, placing him in a little box and limiting him.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100
Here's a quick exercise..
Jane: Dinosaurs exist!
Bob: Dinosaurs don't exist! There's no such thing as a Dinosaur within existence.
Jane: Well they once existed.
Bob: How do we know this?
Jane: Because we have evidence that they once did.
Bob: So?
Jane: So using "inductive reasoning" we can conclude that this was the case. Logic Bob is not limited to existence itself.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 dinosaurs and God are not the same thing.I never claimed humans do not have the ability to use logic but when it comes to God-our logic is too finite for full comprehension of him.Dinosaurs, like humans, are finite and therefore it is possible for us to logically evaluate them but God is an eternal and infinite, uncomprehending being....who can think in the mind of something infinite?Who knows the mind of God and who has been his counselor?
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 1stly I never said that Dinosaurs & God are the same thing that would be Strawmaning please don't start that. You are just making an 'appeal to ignorance" you're just assuming all of these things but you have yet failed to demonstrate them.
But saying something is everything yet is limited by nothing is NOT a definition of something. But In light of that I would like you to watch my video I did on "Omnipresent deity" Bec if God is defined this way then he cannot have a mind.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 You tried to compare using logic with finite beings to using logic with an infinite being.All I tried to point out was that you cannot do that because it is not even the same concept.You apparently are not grasping the fact that our minds, especially when unregenerate and blinded by sin, cannot grasp the full being of God, how he works, why he is the way he is, and why he does what he does and in what way.Using logic that pertains to finite things in simply fallacious at best.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 facepalm! Listen to me very carefully, everything within existence is finite. We know this from Heraclitus, who predates Plato. Nothing that has ever been has been absolute, even the Universe itself changes. To say a chair exist "even though is true" is only a finite concept, as with everything that exist. The Chair will cease to be and so will I.
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 Facepalm!
"Nothing that has ever been has been absolute"
Is that an absolute statement?
fivepointbaptist 1 year ago
@fivepointbaptist
Yes?? In logic there are whats called Logic absolutes! "Law of identity, Law of excluded middle, Is-Ought dichotomy, Principle of sufficient reason" These are all logic absolutes but they are not things within themselves they are only absolute within there application or usage.
Note: This is also why the TAG argument for God fails!!!
bananabread119 1 year ago
@bananabread119 And I never claimed it was possible to fully understand and/or define God.We just take what he has revealed and also can come into personal relationship with him through his Son in which he illuminates our minds to understand godly things in a way we cannot do so in the flesh.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 And I say God is good because he has revealed himself that way.He is good because he is were purpose derives from, he is good because of his attributes, he is good because he is God and it is self evident that good has always prevailed over evil-like the good ole' example of loving someone who hates you being the "bigger person"...therefore anything in opposition to God, his will, and his purpose is wickedness.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@bananabread119 And by the way-Christ and Lord are one and the same.Christ is Lord and the Lord is the Christ....there is not even any contradiction there.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
What should a christian do to a christian friend that eats seafood...since you know shellfish is an abomination according to the bible. Oh wait that's right "christians" that aren't christ like at all pick and choose sins. That's why see christians stuffing their face at Long Johns Silvers while proclaiming to be godly homosexual hating people.
Loungefly37 1 year ago
so let me get this straight. sin is worth withholding love? I won't even go into gay love here. someone *else* being gay and calling themselves christian is worth withholding your love from them? that's just sick.
les4ev 1 year ago
as someone who struggles with homosexual desires i wish i had a friend like he described. I do believe it is biological, but i believe that gives me no excuse. Everyone is born in sin, but what we do is what damns us.
westonjesusfreak 1 year ago
@westonjesusfreak
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you i will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Phil. 1:6
Even though we all sin, we have a God who has walked the same dark paths that we have who will be with us to help us conquer our sin.
If you have already accepted Jesus then he has already done all the heavy lifting for you on the cross by taking the punishment you deserved for your sin. You just need to stay in his Word and in prayer.
Barnabas64 1 year ago
@Barnabas64 God gives us the strength to combat sin, salvation isnt a flu shot its a progressive sanctification
sure as soon as faith is formed in your heart you are saved but God is still "saving" you on a daily baises, if you do not start living like a christian then you prove you never became one. Not perfect but a progressive process of becoming like Christ
westonjesusfreak 1 year ago
Do you recommend "holy ostracism" for people who work on Sundays.
eggsetcetera 1 year ago
@eggsetcetera If we were Sabbath keeper, yes. But we are not. Christ is our Sabbath rest.
OfWrathAndGrace 1 year ago
Ostracism wont work with a gay person. People are born gay. The gay person will think, "well, that person really isn't worth being my friend if s/he doesn't accept me for who I am." Ostracism will destroy the friendship and may end up destroying the gay person's Christian faith.
Henok30 1 year ago
Christians are obsessed with sex.
LouisPlume 1 year ago
"Holy Ostracism' ? So how does that work, you have lunch - basically say - I am rejecting you - implying you are less of a person than I am - but its 'Holy' so its okay. How can he talk about 'the love of Christ' with a straight face. He is pontificating as if HE is God. There are two types of people in this world - those that 'Holy Ostracise' others and those who live their life with respect for their fellow human beings and with a kind heart.
Dragon99481 2 years ago
@Dragon99481 Read your Bible and stop listening to lackadaisical preachers who also don't read their Bibles. What Dr. Piper is saying is scriptural.
crem004 1 year ago
@Dragon99481 It is what the Bible teaches man, Jesus taught it, Paul taught it.
Insaneplanetman 1 year ago
Wow...it's just a penis, people! What's the problem!?!?!
dotyrs 2 years ago
Some people are gay. Get over it!
ohsaucylife 2 years ago
bullshit. jesus loved everyone. the church hates gays
TheSnotrag2009 2 years ago
I'm amazed at how many people claim to be Christians here but yet support homosexuality. My how humanism has crept into the church. It's so sad.
CmRoddy 2 years ago
good answer, brother Piper.
rainzion 2 years ago
After watching this video, I'm kind of confused about the things he stated. But to keep it short, love is love. There is nothing wrong with it, in any form. You can argue that love between an animal and human is wrong, adult and child etc. That's not love though. Only you know when you're really in love, and that is never, ever wrong.
Remember, {John 3:16} For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
CodyJB1993 2 years ago
Well yes, love is love, but we cannot profess to love God, and yet also love our sin. We cannot claim to love God and yet break his commandments (John 14:15). While we are unrepentant sinners, our first love is sin. We're in love with sin and the world, and that is always wrong.
Repentance is key to salvation. John the Baptist called us to repentance (Matt 3.2), Jesus called us to repentance (Luke 3.5), then Paul and the other apostles did (Acts 17.30), and homosexuality is a sin (Rom 1.24-27)
accuratedan 2 years ago
Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. If you believe in John 3:16 then you must believe in 1 Cor. 6:9.
CmRoddy 2 years ago
Believe me, I know all about what the Bible "says" about homosexuality. If you study it, you will find that it's not talking about homosexuality in the way we see it today.
CodyJB1993 2 years ago
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that love is ever wrong. The ninth commandment states "Thou shalt not bear false witness," and by me "changing" to like females (I'm male) would be bearing false witness on myself, claiming that I'm someone I'm not. I thank God for who I am. How about instead of pointing fingers and saying that someone is a sinner for what God made them, we cherish and rejoice for their differences? Just as we do for those of different races and color.
CodyJB1993 2 years ago
Really? Wow... I guess Romans 1:18-32 isn't clear enough on homosexuality... :-/
Oh, and I won't rejoice in our differences. Why? Simple. "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov. 16:4). Your lifestyle is wicked in the eyes of God and your "excuses" derived from the 9th commandment is nothing more than an abuse of God's word to justify the evil you so love.
CmRoddy 2 years ago
I will not continue to argue this. Your opinion is your opinion. You can continue to discriminate and hold prejudices against people and back that up with God. But I will not, I will love everyone and follow Him. I thank God for who I am and my "wicked, chosen lifestyle."
CodyJB1993 2 years ago
It's not my opinion. It's what the Bible SAYS, Cody. Since you don't follow God's word, you are not a Christian.
CmRoddy 2 years ago
@CmRoddy Yes, Romans 1:18-32 is not clear enough. Are verses 28-31 referring to gay people? Are gay people uniquely unrighteous, fornicators, wicked, covetous, malicious, full of envy, etc., or many people are but all gay people are. I don't think either interpretation holds.
tugboat2030 1 year ago
@tugboat2030 You simply refuse to allow the passage to speak. That's why you think it isn't clear.
CmRoddy 1 year ago
You are supposed to love everyone though. That doesnt mean you are supposed to have a monogamous relationship with everyone or marry them.
HypoTheLlamas 2 years ago
This is absolutely awful. This is why queer people are afraid to come out. The possibility of being shunned and rejected by your family and friends is the most terrifying idea ever. Many would rather hide themselves and hate themselves forever before risking this "holy ostracism."
God is love. The spirit of God is shown and felt when we love and accept each other, no matter how we identify.
asterie3 2 years ago
You've broken the second commandment and made a false god for yourself - a god who doesn't care about sin, but, in the name of "love" will let anything go. God is love, therefore he must hate. He cannot love both good and evil, for they are opposites. Here's a verse you never find on a t-shirt or bumper-sticker - Psalm 5.5.
God's love is shown not in an acceptance of sin, but when he makes a way out the only way he can, punishing his own Son for our sin. (Romans 5.8, Isaiah 53.5, Isaiah 53.10).
accuratedan 2 years ago
one thing i see wrong with this is that often with homosexuality, it's not people saying "this is sin, but that's okay... i've made 'peace' with it." often people believe that it is truly not wrong and that there are other ways to interpret sections of the Bible. "holy ostracism" would just push her/him away from christianity/the church. I think everyone disagrees on different parts of the Bible, and to end a friendship because of that seems wrong.
vids4friends 2 years ago
here's the problem with your aurguement. there are many rules/laws in the bible that so many of you so-called christians disregard just becaues you don't want to do them. then when they're pointed out to you you says that they don't apply to you because it was a different time or that part of the bible is part of the christian belief. make up your minds already, either you believe all of it or none of it. you can't pick and choose which so far is what every "christian" does.
JustADucky 2 years ago
This argument is not Biblical. 6 texts advocate shunning in Scripture - eg 1 Cor 5 where a man is having sex with his father's wife. Such behaviour is proscribed even in the pagan culture of the day. The man to be shunned is someone who claims to be Christian yet is consciously sinning. Ditto the other passages. There is no Biblical case for shunning individuals - or churches - who are sincerely acting in good faith, even if we believe they are very wrong. Gracious teaching, not condemnation...
phil1townsend 2 years ago
Does he really believe that "holy ostracism" is the correct way to proselytize and show love to the "outsider"? That is utterly ridiculous! The homosexual is not for an instant going to change his mind about his faith. People change their religious affiliation after seeing something they desire in another faith.
cutelilgayboy 2 years ago
the problem with his story about the sexually active girl is that she was just being a sloot. She can always get married and then fuck her brains out but homosexuals arn't allowed to be wed so the never get the pleasure. personally though i would rather be "holy ostrisized" then have bigot who believe in witchcraft be my friends.
sydelnic 2 years ago
Religion screws up everything. Ignorance is truly bliss.
You don't understand the issue so don't talk about it please.
EternalSSA 2 years ago
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I personally don't own a bible...but I travel often and do get the opportunity to use the ones that are left in hotel rooms....to wipe my ass with, if there is no toilet paper...
jefubu 2 years ago
I dont think Piper is correct. Each of us sin daily, and to pick one sin that deserves ostracism while ignoring all the rest seems hyprocritical. Its a tough issue but I think we should try to explain to them their sin and need of repentance, and lift them up in prayer every day, but not ignore them.
msayersiii 2 years ago
We do sin, but, if we are Christians, our sin will grieve us. He's saying that if a person is in a pattern of sin, and does not see it as wrong, that we should not fellowship with them. The problem isn't the sin, the problem is unrepentance.
RJFerreiro 2 years ago