Sugababes | 03 - Hole In The Head Live @ Sweet 7 Album Launch

[thejamesroad]

please support sugababes 4.0 in every way possible

[DizxAznxChikk]

it be funny when jade and amelle replace heidi one day lol

[thiagodelsole]

Que sem graça, cadê a parte da Jade no final da música ( que era da Keisha ) a segunda voz em holeee in the heeeeeeeeeeaaaadd!

[SassySezzie]

I miss Keisha..

I miss Mutya, hell so much..

But honestly, Jade killed it.

She did that part better than Keisha :$

[JillValentinesFE]

Heidi is so fucking AWESOME

[Bumottoka]

Gosto muito .. jade é 10000

[Wordshaker79]

I have faith in them after this performance coz Amelle was actually ok and Jade was AMAZING!!!!!!! she did Keisha's part so good :D

[jlenoconel]

I do not like this lineup. Either Keisha or Mutya & Keisha should still be in the group. Terrible.

[jpsean]

u know what this chorus actually sound like sugababes 3,.0 lol is what i think feel free to disagree!!!

[princessemziere]

i personally think that jade's voice is better then kesha and this line up has been the best but each lineup have had good hits!

[KidWithTheSpecs]

Sugababes 4.0 are the sugababes for me <3

[scottunderline]

@twiscott RT @Sugababeshq Brazil loves Sugababes <3 Sweet 7 great album *-*

[jamesoncastor01]

4.0 is wonderful at this song!! so energetic! much better than keisha's version

[dancerbx]

- honestly i love sugababes but this song is dead without the other 2 originals

[disneycarlo]

LET JUST BE ALL HAPPY FOR THEM!

Stop Hating Jade! and 4.0

JUST SUPPORT KEISHA AND JADE AND THE OTHERS.

LOOK AT THE BRIGHTSIDE. :>

JUST SUPPORT THEM ALL.

[danieliuli]

@disneycarlo Yea you have a valid point!

[danieliuli]

Bring back the ORIGINALS!!! NOT these SLUTS!!

[ennoire]

@danieliuli You see, this here is what I'm talking about. What I'm sick of. People who won't focus on the music but instead are COWARDS who take advantage of the anonymity of the internet to say CRUEL AND STUPID things they have NO RIGHT to say that don't even make sense about people they don't know because they aren't intelligent enough to do any better. In case you hadn't noticed, those "originals" all walked out on the group. Why don't the anti-4.0's ever address that?

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Keisha did not walk out my friend. She got fired.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket That is the conclusion most have come to. The thing is, if it can indeed be termed a "firing", then it is a highly atypical one; she's out of the group, but she got a solo deal with the same label and apparently a good lot of sterling for it. That's more a bit of a negotiation you know? So there had to be some level of agreement on her part. Contractually (it varies), the label or management may not actually have the authority to truly "fire" any of the group members.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yeah but settling for a solo deal that she never wanted and leaving a band that she saw as only being 'halfway through' is very far from walking out, ennoire.

The only two who walked out were Siobhan and Mutya. It was their choice. Keisha left against her will.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket You may be right; we'll never truly know because we weren't there. I think she's always longed for a solo career - and now she'll have her chance. If the stories are to be believed, then 3 out of 4 girls who have been in the group with her who would rather walk away from all their success than work with her (Mutya being the exception). If so much conflict can be pinpointed to 1 person, then it's good that she was asked to leave - it's like cutting out a tumor to save the body.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yes, we'll never really know but from all the interviews of Sugababes 3.0 and Keisha's tweets, it seemed very much that Keisha wanted to stay in the band and she had all the passion in the world for every project to work until being told to leave. I really didn't like the way you said she just "walked out".

[ennoire]

@gottajacket You're right, I shouldn't have lumped her case with the other two. I didn't really mean it that way but, it's like, you only have so much space to type on here you know? lol

For the record, I continue to wish ALL members, past and present well. I also want to thank you for not stooping to profanity, etc like some people do on here. It's nice to know we can disagree and discuss like adults.

[disneycarlo]

@danieliuli wow. YOU ARE VERY JUDGEMENTAL FAN. WHY? CAN YOU POWERFUL LIKE JADE? CAN YOU SING HIGH NOTES LIKE HEIDI? I DONT THINK SO. YOU WHAT TO ALL 4.0 HATERS AND JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THE KEISHA'S GONE AND JUST SUPPORT THEM ALL. LET'S JUST BE ALL HAPPY FOR THEM.

[Boicovich]

I'm alittle disappointed with heidi's performance here. I could barely hear her. Her verse was my favorite.

[adamw2k8]

Jade singing Keisha's part = epic fail!

[gottajacket]

@adamw2k8 I agree. Jade sounds so wrong for it. She has none of that London swagger that Keisha had.

[adamw2k8]

@gottajacket Definetly not, It just doesnt sound right

[lenatatufan]

aweesome! i love them! GO SUGABABES! Love their voices :)

[befarman]

And this is why I want Mutya and Keisha back. Whoever thinks Amelle and Jade can sing the original members' parts better are deaf. And for a fact, these back catalog songs are the only sole reason left how the management is still earning money from Sugababes. Without these, no one will even care for this band.

[0MusicNewsNow0]

@befarman but if they carry on releasing music, they will find new fans. Besides,don't like,don't listen.

[befarman]

@0MusicNewsNow0 That's a very very stupid defense, but ok. Whatever.

[0MusicNewsNow0]

@befarman not really, clearly they have lost fans, and it will take time for them to find a new audience, in many cases they may aswell be a new band, with a famous name. It's not a stupid defence, it's just another look on the matter, rather than bringing up the original members etc.

[befarman]

@0MusicNewsNow0 The music industry is not a charity. They have sold around 20k copies only. And they used the Sugababes name which is UKs most succesful band which only made it more embarrassing. Consider the fact that Sugababes 2.0 started from scratch and being unknown, yet gathered a lot of fans and sold more than a million copies which puts your defense into shame.

[0MusicNewsNow0]

@befarman Well, i'm a fan, and i bought the album. Besides, i like the new line up, i much prefer Jade to Keisha, but then im biased because i loved Jade on the eurovision. But, each to their own.

[silentknight826]

@befarman How does that put 0MusicNewsNow0's defence into shame? They're at their lowest right now but if they come back with and keep releasing good music, in time they will gather new fans. Nothing wrong with that statement. Now's the time for 4.0 to start from scratch. No use judging their success as a line-up before we actually see what they come out with as a line-up.

[befarman]

@silentknight826 Because Sugababes 2.0 started from scratch and being unknown, yet gathered a lot of fans and sold more than a million copies - while Sugababes 4.0 are using the success of the previous members - STILL being introduced and labeled as UK's most succesful girlband - yet out of Top 200 sales after a month of their recent album. Will they succeed soon? Who'd know? But that is what is happening right now to the group.

[silentknight826]

@befarman They still have a right to be labelled as the UK's most successful girlband, since Heidi was an integral part of that success for 9 years and Amelle was part of their biggest selling single ever. It's not as if they brought in 3 new girls who have never contributed anything to brand Sugababes. For all we know, Jade could have so much to bring to the Sugababes. Time will tell. It's childish to write them off at the first bump in the road.

[befarman]

@silentknight826 This is their second hugely flopped album in a row. What first bump are you talking about?

[silentknight826]

@befarman 4.0 are experiencing their first bump in the road by Sweet 7 flopping.

2.0 were the most successful Sugababes line-up but we won't know exactly how successful 4.0 can be, until we see what kind of music they can produce and how successful that music is. It's no use judging 4.0 by Sweet 7, since Sweet 7 is a 3.0 album but with 4.0 vocals. For all we know, 4.0 material can potentially be very good.

[befarman]

@silentknight826 Sweet7 has a lot of good materials in my opinion. But the thing is, no one wants these Sugababes. Read all reviews and the their huge fanbase in UK, only a number wants Sugababes 4.0. If they'll be successful if ever, good - but I see that's quite impossible to their current situation.

[silentknight826]

@befarman The change of musical direction on Sweet 7 was getting bad reviews from fans and critics even before Keisha was kicked out. And obviously the events after the line-up change caused a lot of havoc for them. Not to mention that half the album was on the internet MONTHS before the release date. That would've killed a lot sales in itself.

As I said, we won't know the true extent of how successful they can be, until a 4.0 album comes out and things have settled.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 I agree with befarman. Reviews from major newspapers have been ripping this lineup purely because of Keisha leaving. You can go ahead thinking one day when things have "settled" the group can be successful but to be honest, they've had many months until it was released. As for your other point, MANY albums have been released early on the internet but have still been successful when released officially. If enough fans wanted this it would've charted higher. No offense.

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket You hit the nail on the head right there, "ripping this lineup purely because of Keisha leaving," that shows exactly how much focus there was on the actual music.

This wasn't your typical album release. There were a lot of obstacles in thier way; the line-up change, the leaks, the push-backs, the biased reviews.

It's moronic to judge their long-term success based on this era.

As I say, next era is the time we'll get a clearer idea.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 I don't think you understand. People are put off the band by Keisha's departure permanently. It's not just another lineup change. All the originals are gone.

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket And you're judging that by what? By Sweet 7 flopping? Obviously Keisha's departure messed things up for them but considering all the other factors, it's not clear that Keisha's absence is the only reason for Sweet 7's failure. For all we know, a lot of people could've heard most of the album back in October, they could've liked the music on the album but by March they could've got bored of what they heard and not bothered to buy it at all (regardless of whose vocals they were).

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Well Ksisha's departure is more likely to be the factor for fans being put off by the Sugababes to be honest lol! A delayed album didn't make all the critics put off by their music, it was the fact an original was gone, the fact the remaining trademark Sugababes sound which Keisha held had slipped away for good. Don't try to save a sunk ship.

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket Lol where you're getting this idea that "all the fans are put off the Sugababes because of Keisha leaving" is beyond me. If the fans stuck around after losing a prolific member like Mutya, why should Keisha be of anymore importance? I'm sorry to tell you this, but Sweet 7's failure is not enough proof to support your little theory. I'd say, the fact that the material on Sweet 7 doesn't sound like 'Sugababes material' is also very relevant to the fans.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Erm there's overwhelming proof that a lot of fans are put off by the Sugababes so don't go like I'm the deluded one.

Maybe when the next album is high and flying, you can come on and say "I told you so" but for now I am pretty convinced that the Sugababes ended when Keisha left. Btw, after Mutya left, Sugababes still had Keisha (an original) so that's why they were still credible, does have to be spelled out? lol Judging by many fans reactions Heidi isn't enough to save them

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket Overwhelming proof? Show me some. And no, the word of a few Keisha fans isn't proof. If the next album campaign goes smoothly and the lead single and material on the album are capable enough to sell the album but it still ends up flopping, then you can say it's because of the line-up change. As it is, there's too many other variables to consider.

Btw, not every Sugababes fan is a fan of Keisha. You need to accept that not everyone liked them for the same reason as you.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Urrr Sweet 7 flopped in the charts after months of publicity. ISn't that enough proof? As well a hull bunch of sour reviews from critics. And I guess you and your "few" fans didn't really make Sweet 7 sell did it? You keep going on and on about these variables, it's starting to seem desperate.

Sugababes was a unique band and their original members gave off something unique with them. Fans realized it all finally went with Keisha.

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket Those weren't "months of publicity," you moron, those were push-backs. In layman's terms, they're very bad things that can kill hype and damage sales.

And critics? Really? A handful of people telling the public what to like and what not to like? I'm capable of thinking for myself thanks. These critics gave C&S rave reviews, yet that album flopped. Shows how relevant critics' opinions are....

[silentknight826]

.... You think fans make album sell? If artists depended on their fans to buy their music, they would never find success. They depend a whole lot more on the general music buying public. You think the 500k people that bought Change are fans of 3.0? No; as evident from the abysmal sales of C&S.

Lol desperate? I'm being realistic. Your favourite member left 7 months ago, yet you're still obsessing over this group... that's desperate.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Keep thinking your own way but I can say with confidence the "Sugababes" have "crashed and burned" for now. The group are carrying the same name that the original members first had that's why I still comment. If they'd change the name, then I wouldn't give a crap.The more you comment the more I have this image of you weeping in the corner with Sweet 7 in your hand

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket Oh please, you comment because you can't accept the thought of them finding success without Keisha. That's why you jump at any opportunity to try and prove they're never gonna succeed. Who're you really trying to convince? Yourself maybe? Because, any rational minded person can see that 4.0's success can't be judged without seeing what 4.0 have to offer.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 No I comment because the facts are right here for you deluded fans to see. Unlike you, who keeps on going on about how they're still adjusting and saving a sunken ship. I just find it ridiculous that they're still using the same band name that the originals started off with. You'd probably still be a fan if Heidi were to leave.

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket Lol those facts do nothing to prove your little theory. Yet you try and use them in an attempt to make Keisha seem relevant. Sad.

Did I say anything about them adjusting? I said I'll wait to see what this line-up can produce, before writing them off. Nothing insane about giving them a chance. You'd probably see it the same way if you weren't stanning on Keisha so hard.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Like I said, the originals mean something to me whilst with you, anyone could replace Heidi tomorrow and you wouldn't give a rat's ass....

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket I'm sure you love the originals with all your heart but it took more than just them to make the group a success. You ended up liking 3.0 only because Keisha was in it. But, original or not, it takes more than one person to make a group. If you're fickle enough to stop supporting them because Keisha's gone, then you're not a Sugababes fan. You're just a Keisha fan. A Sugababes fan would appreciate all the members for what they've brought to the success of the group.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Saying I'm just a Keisha fan is like saying you're just a Jade fan. I like many combinations of the Sugababes but a combination without an original doesn't make sense to me and to be honest, it doesn't make sense to a whole lot of other people. I would feel the same if Mutya and Siobhan were pushed out like Keisha was.

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket The reason that SB can continue without it's originals, is because it's a unique brand that isn't defined by its original members. As opposed to the Spice Girls, who fell apart after one member left. That's because that group revolved around those 5 members. Is it any wonder that SB only gained commercial breakthrough after a line-up change? After all these years, most fans have accepted the group for what it is. Except for a few delusionals like you, who seem to be stuck in 2001.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Delusional? VERY rich coming from a person who makes up really lame excuses for a band who are blatantly failing. If the band wasn't valued for its original members why the hell do you think critics and fans were making a fuss about Keisha leaving? Keisha was valued because she was an original Sugababe who had been in the band for over 11 years. So don't come to me saying the brand is what the fans were after. PLEASE!!!

[silentknight826]

@gottajacket A band that's blatantly failing or an album that's blatantly failing? The fact that you can't see the difference between the two shows just how delusional you are.

And when haven't the fans and critics made a fuss about a member leaving? That's never ended the group.

Lol it's quite amusing how you think anyone who liked them, liked them for Keisha. Face it, most people just like them for their music. And by now, people have accepted them to be an ever-changing pop force.

[gottajacket]

@silentknight826 Yes the band has always had a fuss about members leaving but, you don't quite get it, Keisha's departure was way more significant than Mutya's or Siobhan's. And your statement about people accepting them to be an ever-changing pop force is ridiculous. It really is. I think it's just you who thinks that.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket I strongly disagree; I think Mutya's leaving was most significant and they survived anyway. The music changed dramatically, "on Keisha's watch", the sales slowly dropping since "About You Now". The sound has become less "Sugababes" and more " standard pop". Sweet 7 is such a departure from their "traditional" style, would you have brought it even if Keisha were still there? I think a lot of former "fans" aren't being honest with themselves if they say they would have.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yeah Mutya's departure was a big change, in my opinion the moodiness Mutya had defined the Sugababes for me. Saying that, Sugababes 3.0 changed their style as usual and went mainstream pop with Change. But with all their Sugababes albums Keisha the only original was really the only real connection to the original Sugababes and fans saw that. The originals do matter in this band.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Agree but, I guess I feel a lot of people are downplaying Heidi's contribution to SB. Though she wasn't there from day 1, she may as well have been. I truly feel that as long as Heidi is there, they have a right to the name. My hope is that this new line-up will FOCUS ON THE MUSIC on the next album and get back to a more "genuine" "SB sound" that is worthy of their talent and history (I do love Sweet 7, but I love club music generally; it's not a very SB sounding album).

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yes I agree, I have downplayed Heidi's contribution a little but lets discuss Heidi. She's so sweet and friendly and I'm sure she's a nice woman but she doesn't have the Sugababes essence. I still have this image of her smiling & tagging along with Mutya and Keisha in that Stronger video whilst the two originals have their street attitude going on. I know she's done a lot. Will you still see them as the Sugababes if Amelle was leading it and Heidi left?

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Tough question. To me, each member has brought something unique to the group both vocally and personality-wise over the years. No disrespect to Amelle; I'm sure she's worked hard but I consider Heidi the honorary "4th original Sugababe" (I know, I know). The subject of image is completely separate; I have lots to say about that, but it's easy to see they've gone from angsty teens to glamazons - they're grown women now.

[ennoire]

@ennoire Oops, lol. My short answer is no. I think if Heidi left then it would truly be over - especially with the music having changed as much as it has.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Watch the Sugababes Stronger and fast forward to 1:50 and you'll see what impression I still get of Heidi even after all these years. She's just not a good frontwoman in my opinion. Too sweet when Sugababes was about being edgy.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket I think that Heidi brought balance to the group with her contrasting personality. Vocally, she literally brought range to the group - the harmonies got fuller from the moment she signed on. It wasn't until Keisha's "lead" that they became really pop. Heidi has let the others overshadow her all these years - I'm curious to see what the sound would be like with her "at the helm". Maybe she can take SB back to its roots? I don't know if we've seen all she (or 4.0) has to offer yet.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yeah I think at the most I can accept Heidi as partly original. I've associated the originals as hard working singers who were at it when they were 13 years old, that's something really special and rare to find nowadays especially with fast fame reality TV shows like Britain's Got Talent & X Factor. The original Sugababes weren't about fast fame. Yeah and I'm so used to Heidi being in the back seat. Btw, the harmonies with Siobhan were full as well and I think they blended better.

[gottajacket]

@gottajacket Either way, the band is, if not already, slipping into an embarrassing tribute one. If Heidi suddenly behaved horribly to Amelle and Jade and they forced her out and found a replacement for Heidi then it'd be even more ridiculous but yet I can imagine some fans being fine with the change and sticking up for Amelle and Jade for their achievements and losing the bigger picture - that the new band lineup is totally messed up.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket OMG, if that were to ever happen, how awful! lol I was happy to read their pact that they agree this is the final line-up. It is for me for sure. Even if Heidi stayed and Jade or Amelle went, I don't think I could take it. I think others feel the same b/c the only thing that ties any band together is the "sound" the members - or both. SB is suffering right now I think b/c they've lost so much continuity in BOTH.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Wow I actually like discussing this with you. Thank you for having an open mind. I agree with the "sound" and that it's suffering because they went away from the traditional style of music and on top of that their harmonies aren't as great in this album (as in Jade overpowers the other two). I don't know if you see it. It wasn't that Keisha's voice was weak but it was more of a group voice. Whereas, Jade's voice is more of a force that doesn't know how to blend in -yet?

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Best Youtube thread ever! lol I'm hoping that it's b/c Jade had to record her vocals after the other girls and hadn't worked with them previously. She has a power previously unheard in this group but, their live performances (especially the acoustic ones) are giving me hope (I think they are sounding better together as they go along). I think I said somewhere else that all the stupid new choerography is interfering with their breath too.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire When it comes to old classic Sugababes songs, Heidi sounds the same as usual which is great for her part but Amelle doesn't do Mutya's parts with as much soul because her voice is slightly raspy but at least its a close match to Mutya's deep voice. Amelle has a group voice. Jade sounds completely different to Keisha and her voice is like a gale force wind. Jade has a solo voice.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Maybe Heidi hurt her voice? (NOT hating!) Sometimes sounds like she's holding back recently - less powerful than before. Love Amelle's raspy tone, but she struggles for breath in some older songs (i.e., Round, Round) b/c she can't sing as low as Mutya (she can sing higher though) - in songs written with her, she sounds great live. Jade live brings power in the latter era songs that Keisha (sorry - love you!) struggled with, but Jade makes sound effortless (i.e., Girls).

[gottajacket]

@ennoire @ennoire Heidi's voice is generally weak and her experience doesn't really match her voice. No offense she's really bland when performing live sometimes. Jade has that kick that is sometimes hit and miss depending on the Sugababes song. I agree with you about Amelle her low voice is sometimes a struggle and her high voice is lovely: Unbreakable heart in Catfights and spotlights with Amelle's opening - really nice. Which songs do you think Keisha struggled with?

[ennoire]

@gottajacket There's only a few examples: Girls, AYN, PTB, & TYFTH - Jade handles these with much less effort than Keisha, who at times sounded taxed. But those are also some of the SB's most difficult songs - lots of range and power. Overall, I feel that there was a lot of pressure put on Keisha to be this sort of "Soul Queen" that every once in a while resulted in a song being too big for her voice. Labels suck.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket By contrast, TLIY is one of SB's toughest songs (it is a cover), but Keisha always handled it beautifully. I actually love the solos in this 4.0 version, but feel they should take the chorus down a bit. The harmony is perfect here - it just doesn't suit the song well (not "melancholy enough?). I think this is 4.0's biggest challenge - they blend well (i.e., biz sessions, live lounge), but may need to rework some harmonies to suit their voices better.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Hi thanks for coming back to discuss! I just want to ask what does TYFTH stand for and what does TLIY stand for? I would love to comment but I don't know what those stand for. I do think Keisha runs out of breath and she just about makes it in those big hit songs. Jade's voice does stand out a bit too much though.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Yeah, had no pc access over weekend. Thank You For The Heartbreak (not a single I know) and Too Lost In You. SB seldom gets credit for doing vocally challenging songs; every line-up had to have real talent to pull them off. I fully agree with you about Jade's voice - she has been a solo singer first so, she may need time to learn to blend in better as part of a group. I think (hope) it can happen.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Heya, I saw Jade's version of Too lost in you!! She did a Mariah all over that song! I think her voice is breathtaking but I just don't think she'll ever fit into that "youngest and most vulnerable sister" role in the Sugababes. Her voice just blows Heidi's out of the water. Mutya was right, she does make the other two seem like backing singers to an extent.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket I agree that Jade's voice stands out and they've never had someone like her vocally. But I still think they can work it out; they have demonstrated in live performances that their voices blend well. I think some songs just need more work than others. It's her personality I'm more concerned about. And I'm really hoping Heidi steps out "from the shadows" so to speak.

[Cazxiro]

@gottajacket I disagree with the notion of "solo" voice and "ensemble" voice. A great singer can be both. However these parts that Jade is now given to sing (Keisha's original) are for a range that's weaker than her own. Jade is used to belting it out, Keisha barely did (in fact, Keisha was often the one who harmonized with the others). Sometimes Jade's voice works better than Keisha's but sometimes it does not. However they are both good in their own way.

[gottajacket]

@Cazxiro I agree. Jade's voice is different I guess. Anyway, it's not like this group is going to abruptly hit superstardom again so my enthusiasm for them isn't as much anymore.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket I'll admit, I do downplay Siobhan's as an SB BUT, I honestly would never wish her back b/c I find her SO BRILLIANT as a solo artist! Mutya is likely my all-time fave SB, but I was SO dissapointed with her solo effort. OT vocals are so raw, the talent is evident, but the harmonies are pretty thin. Listen closely to AWDF & Three - Heidi's vocals make up most layers of chorus, bridges, etc suggesting she could harmonize in a way M&K weren't able to in their early days.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire And yeah I had doubts and was disappointed when they turned Atomic Kitten poppy when Keisha was "leading" them. I had thoughts like, "she should know better than to turn all mainstream". Basically, I thought the coolness of Sugababes left with Mutya. But I always had some respect for the band and Keisha for being able to stand up for so long. If the harsh rumours about Keisha are true (her being unforgivably awful to Heidi and Amelle) , then I'd be disappointed with Keisha.....

[ennoire]

@gottajacket I choose to focus on the music not their personal drama b/c 1) no way we can know for sure 2) I find it too depressing to think about, lol Myabe I'm being too idyllic, but I'm really hoping they can turn this all around. At the end of the day, I still see them as people, and hope that they are all happier and better off for it (like a divorce in a way) - one thing: maybe "honeymoon syndrome" for them but, the SB have never looked happier than they do now.

[silentknight826]

@ennoire Lol wow this discussion has moved along since I last saw it. I agree with all your points. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[ennoire]

@silentknight826 Thanks. Couldn't have down it w/o you and gottajacket. It's been a really great conversation and glad we're not all hacking away at each other. I'm really hoping they take some of the acoustic sound they've been doing in their live performances and work it into the next album - I think the result could be massive!

[silentknight826]

@ennoire I hope so too. I really like their version of Rabbit Heart. It shows they have a lot of potential. I also hope they take time to discover their sound as a line-up and work towards making music that they do best instead of just making an album of 'current' music just for the sake of staying relevant. I really believe that their next album is their 'make or break' album.

[ennoire]

@silentknight826 Yeah, I agree. I'm excited and worried at the same time that this next album will be the one to decide if there truly is a Sugababes anymore or not. I really do hope they pull it off; the current state of things would be such an awful way for it all to end.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire What do you think about Mutya's claim to take over the brand name?

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Honestly, it makes me angry although she was my fave. I see it as an ugly, desperate act for attention. After all these years, after walking out on the group and years of not speaking to Heidi OR Keisha, not even telling Heidi she left back then. How dare you come back now, and with this, you know what I mean? I see it kind of like a dad who walks out on his family only to come back with a lawsuit for custody after years of being absent. Strong words, I know.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yeah, when I think about it I see it as Mutya backing up Keisha after seeing her old friend being ousted. When Amelle went missing, Keisha dangerously said in an interview "..the most talented person I've ever been around in my life was Mutya." Maybe Mutya is doing this as they are clearly friends now.

I do agree though, it makes less sense for Mutya to do this lawsuit business since she left years ago without speaking to Heidi or Keisha properly.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket I can see that about backing up Keisha but, Keisha doesn't seem to want to be a part of that so, it seems kind of selfish to me. Overall, I think Heidi, Amelle and Keisha have handled this split with more class than the previous line-up changes. I do applaud the remaining members for having kept closed mouths at first - until it seems they were forced to say something in their defense after all the bad press.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire I think Keisha wants to put the Sugababes behind her. She's certainly not attention seeking and her statements about the girls seem to wish them the best and she understood that it couldn't work anymore. It's strange it went that way and we'll never know why Sugababes 3.0 really had to split. Early interviews with the Amelle as the new girl and the manager explicitly said the atmosphere was the best it had ever been. It kind of makes me distrust the chemistry between Jade and the others

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Agree about Keisha. And yeah, I remember those interviews too, like the one with the Mirror during C&S where Keisha explicity stated that she thought 3.0 was the best line-up "relationship-wise". So odd to go from that to what ended up. The chemistry between 4.0 so far seems really sincere to me though, in a way that the others haven't. I think it might be because no one's really a "leader", they seem more "passive" types.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire I mean this with all respect, I really do but I honestly think the group is going to find it difficult to recapture what they had during their 2.0 phase. They may be successful but I cannot see them reaching those heights ever again unless they came back with some killer song.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket *sigh* You're probably right - but I can dream can't I? LOL Like I said, I hope they can do the name Sugababes proud. If they go in a different direction musically or image-wise, at least that it be somewhat commercially successful but also show off the raw talent that this line-up has, and match to some level, the creativity of the 2.0 days. I don't know that anyone can ask for more than that. Just to go out with some dignity, not all this tabloid fire and tanked album sales.

[jlenoconel]

@gottajacket Eventually Heidi and Amelle will get pissed off with Jade when they realize that bringing her in effectively killed the band. Keisha may have been a bitch, but as long as she was still in the group it was still the Sugababes. That being said, had Amelle left, especially if it had been on bad terms, people would have lost a lot of respect for them. I think if Amelle had left, they should have carried on as just Keisha and Heidi, or brought Mutya back, and NOT bring Jade in.

[gottajacket]

@jlenoconel I don't think Heidi and Amelle will ever be pissed off with Jade on a personal level but they have to realise that the Sugababes is coming to the end of the road. I thought this band had a few more years in them when Keisha was still around, that girl had all the determination in the world, now I think the band is surely going to die away. They will never reached the Mutya days. EVER :D

[jlenoconel]

@gottajacket Sweet 7 would have probably been released in America by now had Keisha not left the Sugababes and they probably would have been very successful, t least a lot more than now. Its a joke that Heidi and Amelle thought they could carry on without the last original founding member, and to replace her with a Eurovision runner up is ridiculous. I really doubt that the girls hang out that much together anymore. I bet Heidi regrets siding with Amelle too on some level.

[gottajacket]

@jlenoconel Yes, they would've went far if they had kept it together. Now, they're just above water.

[ennoire]

@gottajacket It makes me angry, although she was my fave TBH. I find it an ugly, desperate act for attention. After all these years, walking out on the group, not speaking to Heidi OR Keisha for years, not even telling Heidi when she left. How dare you come back now with this - you know what I mean? I think of it kind of like a man who walks out only to return with a custody suit after years of being absent from his family. Harsh words, I know.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire If anyone, it would make more sense for Keisha to launch an attack on the girls but I'm guessing she's worn out with all the Sugababes drama for whatever reason and she knows Amelle and Heidi too well to ever put on something like that.

:) What about Jade's personality concerns you? What concerns me is that we don't know very much about her...I don't know...the enthusiastic smiles and nervous laughs are going to wear out soon...Heidi is not naturally a leader, she's more of a follower

[ennoire]

@gottajacket Yeah, Keisha as well as 4.0 all seem to be more focused on the future (than most fans even! lol) and they should be, for their own sakes. With Jade, I'm worried about her personality in terms of being distinct. Each girl has brought something different to the group vocally and personality. Easy to see what Jade brings vocally, but wonder about her personality. 4.0 does seem to be more generally happy than any other line-up though.

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yeah Sugababes 4.0 seem happy. It must be the relief of the departure of somebody that they dread in their day to day lives. I know that sounds cruel and I miss Keisha but in the eyes of Heidi and Amelle, I guess that's the way they see it.

ennoire, do you think they'll ever be a Sugababes tribute where all the members come together. Sugababes is going to end sometime!! It'll be interesting with how it'll end. Do you think Mutya, Siobhan and Keisha will turn up to a farewell ceremony?

[ennoire]

@gottajacket LOL - I've thought about this ! Would be awesome to see a farewell tour of sorts with all 6 but, it seems there's too much bad blood even after all these years. At least Siobhan and Mutya I don't think would participate. I know it has to end, but I'm not the sort that can wish anyone badly, and I'd love for 4.0 to have at least one more big hit album, to end on a high note and do the name Sugababes proud you know?

[gottajacket]

@ennoire Yeah we can't expect something sweet and happy ever after like what happens in that film Dreamgirls, can we? Siobhan seems way too disinterested, Mutya seems to lost all respect for Heidi for continuing without Keisha and as for Keisha, I'm guessing she's generally worn out. It may take time though. Maybe a long break will calm the storm.

[ennoire]

@silentknight826 I'm gonna keep this short b/c I'm tired of arguing on these damned forums. Thank you for having the strength that I don't b/c there are those of us who know you are right on all counts and agree. Keep the faith. Beyond that - I love Sweet 7 and truly think it would have done poorly even if Keisha were still there b/c the music wasn't "Sugababes" enough for most fans. That said, happy about Jade and as long as Heidi is there - they totally have the right to the name Sugababes.

[silentknight826]

@ennoire Thank you. Somebody who sees the bigger picture.

[Boicovich]

@gottajacket LOL @ weeping with the Sweet 7 Album in the corner.

[gottajacket]

@Boicovich LOL I know, the more this silentknight826 comments the more that image gets stronger in my head. What do you think about the Sugababes situation?

[Boicovich]

@gottajacket Honestly, sacking such a Memorable member of the band like Keisha and casting a girl from a singing competition and releasing a Album that's so off from their direction was not such a Smart idea. I'm not really that suprised that "Sweet 7" Flopped. if they replace Heidi they might as well disband

[Boicovich]

@gottajacket also, i think Jade would have worked, Maybe if she was the 4th Girl with Keisha still there. her being the 3rd girl. absolutly Replacing Keisha is alittle blah! i wish them sucess, but I don't really see it...

[Boicovich]

@silentknight826 Sweet 7 Flopped? Why is this my first time hearing this? maybe because i'm in america...

[gottajacket]

@befarman Hi I agree with you with every comment. Sweet 7 with Jade has had so many months of preparation. Enough promos, enough singles, yet they chart at number 14. That's enough evidence that the Sugababes are over and done with now. There's no other proof to support these desperate Sugababes 4.0 fans. They're the sort of people that will support Sugababes 7.0 just for the brand name's sake

[opticalfacade]

@silentknight826 I think you really should go through their history. The last album with Mutya made them an international sensation, so people would be really be curious of what the Sugababes will do next - hence making About You Now their biggest single - Amelle could have been anybody, but would still make the first single successful. But then, Change only sold half as many as TIMW, so you really can't say Amelle brought something to the group.

[silentknight826]

@opticalfacade Clearly they were more successful with Mutya but they only recently gained the title of Biggest Girl-band from the UK. Meaning that Amelle's contribution was included in that title.

It's probably true they could've been just as successful with someone other than Amelle but the fact is, it wasn't someone else, it was Amelle. She was part of the group for the last 4 years, after Mutya walked out, and in that time she's earned her place in the group.