The Myth of Male Power - Warren Farrell - 6/19

[greycloud24]

i have always wondered why women feel oppressed when in the dating seen men are expected to ask women out, but women can also ask men out. but it is almost always the woman's decision to date or not. in early relationships women have all the power, and i am not sure this ever really changes. it used to be that men had more power once children were born, but current laws will strip men of their money and give it to women should they divorce or separate.

[thespacialone]

Hey Wizard, this is the best interview I've ever heard!!

[seemoretube]

When was this recorded? I'm 28 and have given up on relationships for the last 3 years, I thought this was "empowering". He just described me exactly.

[August1977]

A woman's obsession with social and economic stability and success is part of her nesting habbit, it is primarily serves the interest of her [potential] child.

[mesauh]

Take away the pussy and girls are left with no power! That's all the power they have, and we gave them that power!

[UnionMetalhead]

also women have been encouraged to go for these men with money and as usual, she wanted it all. This is the problem - u either have to have 1 or the other or a balance. U cant have it all. Alot of women here are still guilty of wanting it all.

[SavMacCauley]

Thank you for posting this series. For a long time I've felt that men have become feckless beasts of burden for women. This series lets me know that I'm not far afield on that.

[Rahhhsajp19]

@SavMacCauley  Men are over oppressed thats why I'm so moving to a asian countrey lol

[mtb416]

@SavMacCauley Yeah, fucking Feminism has destroyed men in the West.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@mtb416 Actually it is patriarchy, that existed before feminism, that is still holding men back. Feminism hasn't helped men very much, but it hasn't hurt them either.

[mtb416]

@CanadiaNecro1 Patriarchy is holding men back? Quite a theory you're positing there. Not sure how you arrive at such a conclusion.

Feminism, that is modern and contemporary feminism, not the suffrage type, has most certainly hurt men.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@mtb416 How isn't patriarchy holding men back? Patriarchy is a system which empowers a select few men, puts them at the top- governors, presidents, kings, etc. and entitles the rest of the men- the peasants, serfts, etc in society a beta status. As low on the totem pole as men have been, women have always been lower. No matter how lowly her husband is, the wife is always below him and required to submit to be submissive. That's patriarchy. That's history.

[mtb416]

@CanadiaNecro1 That is not patriarchy. Patriarchy refers to family structure, not political structure.

[thespacialone]

@mtb416  Patriarchy has a lot more to do with politics than Republican/Democrat

[Alternamaton]

@CanadiaNecro1 This is disingenuous. Are you seriously implying that, throughout history, even the lowest-status male had higher status than all females? Think about that for a second. A castrated slave had higher status than the queen? A factory worker had higher status than the factory owner's wife?

[CanadiaNecro1]

@Alternamaton No that's not what I'm saying. In each of those instances, there was a male higher than the female. Never in history has there been a female with no one male higher than her. The queen always had a lord or king over her, and the factory owner's wife was the wife and the factory owner was obviously the man in charge.

[Alternamaton]

@CanadiaNecro1 You said, "As low on the totem pole as men have been, women have always been lower.'

This implies that all men were "above" all women, which is absurd. Also, you assert, with no evidence, that wives have always had to "submit" to their husbands. Husbands and wives have generally been expected to defer to one another in different ways. Mistreatment of a wife by a husband has never been tolerated. There have never been any "wife rebellions".

[CanadiaNecro1]

@Alternamaton Look at any culture. The Maori are one simple example. If a woman touched a man's head, she would automatically be sentenced to death. And once a Maori husband died, all his wives would be killed so as not to hypothetically disgrace him if they happened to have sex with another man after his death. Abrahamic culture has been just as misogynistic. You must not know much about history. There have been no "husband rebellions". Wives are always submissive and inferior.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great, several Egyptian Phararohs, various European tribal leaders like Boudicca. Might want to read up on your history.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@ketsan Yeah yeah, go ahead and give me the exceptions to the rule and isolated cases. I'm talking about humanity as a whole.

Please, I emplore you, look at history books not just modern ones but those from the 1970's or earlier.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 Oh I point you in the direction of "The Feminine Mystique" women are never in charge because women, on the whole, would rather be in the home with their kids. This male oppression bollocks doesn't turn up in 2nd wave feminism. Read your early 2nd wave texts, there is no male oppression mentioned. While you're at it you might want to read "Domestic Tranquility" by Carolyn Graglia.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 Now I can't stand Graglia or most of what she says but she charts the rise of the male oppression myth pretty damn well. Women were never oppressed, any woman that had the drive to get to the top always could, women just don't want to on the whole. Men have always fantasised about powerful, intelligent, educated women, can we find one? No. What we find is women that want to marry rich men and cogitate with the kids in front of the telly, just like Friedan bitched about in the 50s

[CanadiaNecro1]

@ketsan Are you god? You don't know what every woman wants! Women don't all want motherhood, but that's often the only option. Do all women want to slave away in a filthy kitchen and serve her husband? Do all women choose to cover their faces or get beaten or put to death? Or to never have the right to birth control or the power of divorce? That's how most of the world is and has been. Most societies are religiously patriarchal. Remember, the first world is relatively small.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 What are you blabbering on about? I said "on the whole" i.e "in general" i.e "in most cases" i.e "I'm not claiming to know what all women want". Of course most societies are patriarchal and they are such for the same reason that even with positive discrimination we still can't make things 50/50, very few women want to do things the way men do them. Even with society actively encouraging women they still refuse to take an active role in most things.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@ketsan Women in the first world take an active role in most things: politics, business, family, education, etc. MRA's smirk at them and say they're not equal to the men in these fields. They only say this because 1-women have not done these things as long as men and 2-MRA's are chauvanistic asswhipes.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 I'm not even talking about equality; I'm talking about desire. Yeah women can and should do anything a man can, do they want to? No. But rather than just admit that women have to make out like men are preventing them. Women, like everyone else, are a self-serving interest group that is only interested in equality as long as it benefits them. Women still expect men to pick up the tab, they still treat us as success objects, they still expect us to protect them, this isn't equality.

[vincent15641]

@ketsan Compare your comments about feminism with the revelations in the video called "What Women Want is Worship".

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 And are women interested in changing this? Of course not, feminism was about getting rights, not about sharing responsibility. Hence you don't see women stepping up to the plate across a range of fields.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@ketsan Have I ever seen women stepping up to the plate across a range of fields? Not sure what you mean by that. There are women wildland firefighters stepping up, and women foresters stepping up. That's what I've seen as a professional forester myself. Women are also stepping up in education and business. I'm not sure what you meant by that so I don't know how to answer.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 But no where near approaching 50%. There have always been females in business and education and at the top of those fields. There's no great female demand to be allowed onto the front line in Afghan or to do all the other danerous jobs. When push comes to shove the majority of women go running back to the kids.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@ketsan That's because women are the ones who end up getting pregnant. It's kindof hard to dig a fireline if you are having baby sickness! I blame lack of education and use of birth control. Of course MRA's are also against birth control because it's "sexist" against men. They hate the pill and abortion and expect unprotected sex from women and no consequences.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 That's a shockingly bad argument.

[CanadiaNecro1]

@ketsan I guess so because there is no push for men to take dangerous jobs that I can see. Rather historically there was a push against women in these positions. I was talking about modern times in wildand firefighting, where women have a slight advantage in applying for the job. They want more women on fire crews. Of course the MRA is going to claim this is also discrimination against men. Always the victim.

[ketsan]

@CanadiaNecro1 The push is the extra money. Well is it discrimination? What's the reason for people to want more women on fire crews? Are they physically better at doing the job than men? Do they have some kind of skill that men lack which makes them better firefighters? Or is it that there's legislation in place which requires that they push to get more women on crews in the interests of equality?