to my fellow brothers and sisters out there who maybe whatching this,please remember,nomatter wut,we will always recive critisism from this fleshly world,and that we will hav haters,but remember to keep strong because nomatter what,jehovah will always be there for us.and for those who r reading this and are not jws,please note that we are not a cult.people cant just go around saying that just becuz they hate us.its like saying i hate penut butter to everyone and all of a sudden its evil
As a former witness myself, i'd have watched this and thought this guy is blinded by satan, or he's deluded. A witness won't even realise charles taze russel used pyramidology (a PAGAN practice) to work out the year 1914 (and he wasn't even the origonal president). A witness is trained to think anything said against the watchtower is deluded. I find all religion as faulty as eachother.
@ladynyla2624 I think the only information that is incorrect, is studying the bible by itself is somehow more enlightening...when really the bible has a lot of flaws, and is definetly not somehow magically inspired by a 'perfect god.'
@Andysingtoyou yeah i know... hes just a primitive concept to try to explain how the world came to be, just like all the other couple hundred religion who claim their god is the one and only creator. funny thing is none of them have any evidence at all to have the right to say their religion is the only true one, including christianity. stop this delusion
ok lets say u r rite whe u say that an organization should not tell u what 2 think n do .......n my question would b what about da cristendom who runs da show around da entire world n da media which invites u 2 do exactly what da bible condenms
@spide090410 this is faulty reasoning. You will find millions upon millions of people find all religious people believe in nonsense. You say, the media invites people to do exactly as the bible condemns. This is assuming the bible is somehow the moral guideline everyone should follow. You cant deny in the bible, children were to be stoned if they were disobedient to their parents. A woman could be put to death if she was raped and didn't scream. So why don't you follow those rules?
Matt Slick needs to oversee his CARM discussion forum boss - named "Diane". If he is okay with her unfair treatments, judging, controlling, banning people for doing nothing wrong, etc... then I wouldn't wish to watch anything Matt has to share. Diane either has him fooled or he doesn't closely watch her action and behavior at the discussion forums. Or both.
What a liar.I have been to many meetings with the jehovas witness,and i thank god every day that he saved me from a terrible cult.They call it a watchtower study,not a bible study.I pray and hope that the people who are in that cult will be free someday.
@geetarnut Why are you called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" and not "Christians"? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" then what was the "new name" prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be "Jehovah's Witnesses", for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be "Christian" after our savior "Christ"?
@geetarnut If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?
@Jesransam I See exactly what you're saying but think about this.It says "Given", who is the person who gave that name?Also it says "Under heaven" so what about in heaven.What is the highest name in heaven?
@11and15productions -Jesus was not the first Angel ever made, he was the wonderful counselor,almighty God, the everlasting Father, the price of peace. isaiah 9:6
What you are saying is spot on in this video. Any organization that controls what you think is a cult! These people are brainwashed.
I had a JW on my job who wouldn't even look at the little video player I had because it was showing a Christian video at the time. I was showing her the model not the video but she was trained to not look at anything from another religion, yet she walks around trying to unload her organization's literature. I'm not intimidated reading about another religion.
The JW are a cult plain and simple. They control what you do, where you go, what you watch on tv, what to study if you go to college, but they don't encourage education and what to think. I know folks who have been excommunicated for questioning their doctrine. They regurgitate the same crap. Every JW who came to my door always address the world we live in like I'm blind and don't see what's happening. Debating with one is totally useless because if you're going against them satan is using you.
Okay...... The watchtower is a reference to the bible, it helps reach certain parts of the bible, and relates it to modern day issues. The watchtower may 'suggest' what to study, but we have complete control of what we study in the Bible. And to help break it down 1st quote, Jehovah's channel of communtication is the Bible, the faithful and discreet slave is he who studies. 2nd quote, the Chritian congregation are those Christian worshipers. We are led by the Bible, the watchtower is aids.
@179casi The watchtower mag. may be an aid but how often have you arrived at a conclusion differing from theirs? Have you studied Greek & Hebrew? If not, how do you know that their NWT is correct? Have you listen to anyone else points of view other than those of JWs? It's a proven fact that those who have questioned their doctrine were excommunicated. They break up more families than any other religion. If you studied on your own I'd bet you will find discrepancies.
Satan has often used apostates in an effort to corrupt true worship—but to no avail. About the year 1868, Charles Taze Russell began a careful examination of long-accepted doctrines of Christendom’s churches and found misinterpretations of the Scriptures.
Faith in God's Word.
Despite the wiles of the foremost apostate, the spiritual vigilance of the faithful and discreet slave class has helped these true Christians to remain loyal to Jehovah and his Word.—Matthew 24:45.
@Meditate2me2 There is no reasoning/debating with JW cause according to you guys satan uses everyone who disagrees with your doctrine. You all regurgitate the same nonsense. The same garbage another JW told me yesterday. You put your trust in Russell? Don't you have a mind of your own? Did you do a careful examination of what JW teach? Did you do a careful examination of the NWT and compared it to the Greek? I appreciate the "apostates" because they are gaining common sense and left this cult!
@YhwhKhaiMostHigh We do not believe satan uses everyone that does not agree with us, everyone has their own free will, satan influences persons to do wrong. A person has a choice of allowing Gods holly spirit to influence you to do what it right, and to protect you from satan.
@Meditate2me2 --- "Charles Taze Russell began a careful examination of long-accepted doctrines of Christendom’s churches and found misinterpretations of the Scriptures."
Misrepresentation of scripture? Like what? Jesus Christ being Michael the Archangel? Or the non existence of Hell? or what Jesus's return in 1914?
id like to know what "Misrepresentation of Scripture" did Charles Russell clear up?????
@Meditate2me2 ---- If i asked you to explain Genesis 1:26, to explain where God said "Let us make man in OUR own likeness and in Our own image" ---if i asked you to explain from the bible what was meant by "US" and "OUR" ? would you consider me an apostate for asking this question?
That is not true what you're saying about the kingdom halls of jehovah witness they in courage you to learn about other religions so you can get a better understanding of what's going on. And they were able to answer all my questions and that makes perfect sense to me thank goodness for their organization. I do believe that is coming from a higher power the god of the most high of all gods.
@Debann40--- ia hate to dis agree with u but i do -- the WT will not learn any other religions - where did you get that from? according to JWS all other religions a apostates and yes they anser questions according to their twisted view -- example Jesus is not Michael the Archangle --- but JWS teach this twisted doctrine and deny the diety of Jesus Christ
@mtavarez4561 Debann40 is right. I had a study with them yesterday. And they want people to see the different religions. That way you can tell which religion is false and which is true.And then stay away from the false ones because jehovah god is going to destroy them. it makes perfect sense. Satan has all these religions to blind us and lead us away from god. and where are theses Hari's? They're not preaching at my door! what they're trying to keep the truth to themselves?
@Hello411sukr ----"Debann40 is right. I had a study with them yesterday. And they want people to see the different religions. That way you can tell which religion is false and which is true" This could not be farther from the truth - The JW's are not allowed to study from any other bible accept NWT - and they will not in any depth discuss or attempt to discuss anything out side what the WTO teaches in fact they can be shunned or worse for doing so, i know this for a FACT!!
@mtavarez4561 I know Jesus wouldnt keep gods word to himself. The Jws are on all walks of the earth. Im sure if God wanted to tell everyone about him and his truth, he wouldnt entrust it to the Haris! I've never heard of them nor have i seen them! If you want to put a video up and have the world see it, would you really pick a website that no one has heard of!?! I dont think so. Jw is defiantly the true religion.
@Hello411sukr ----" I know Jesus wouldnt keep gods word to himself" So your saying that just because the JWs door to door more than others - they have the truth? Would this be true for Mormons' as well? Or are they just a little true because they dont door to door quite as much? ----- did you consider that JWs and Mormons are in a works based religion? has nothing to do with who has the TRUTH, if tht ws true then Morms wld have a little truth as well, ask yrslf -- do Morms hv the truth also?
@mtavarez4561 U went from the Hati's to the Morms. For U to change ur subject of the Hatis religion to Morms makes me think that u're trying to advert the conversation. I c that u've messaged alot of ppl on here. & now i just think that your some sad looser whos just trying to find something to place your anger upon. Im not going to bother reading your comments when they're not important. like i said satan, Slither elsewhere. if u reply i will find amusement in deleting your comment w/o reading.
@Hello411sukr -spoken like a true person that has no idea why they beleive what ever they belive, the only one avoiding ?s is you because you dont know what you belive - you diserve the JWs everybody can just blinding follow the person in front them - if that wrks for you it works for me - --- and if you didnt read my post then you would not have replied - so happy reading-- have a nice day!!!
@Debann40 How do JW encourage you to learn about other religions? Do they tell you to speak with others in that religion for a fuller understanding or do they tell you everything about the other religions themselves?
Just because they dont run around acting like they're possessed, or get down on their knees every 20 seconds for no reason doesnt mean the JWs are a cult. They're religion is just more organized and sophisticated then the others. Instead of being lazy and doing things that are convent for them, the JWs do their best to follow Jesus example. I know a lot of ppl from church who are a saint on sunday and demon for the rest of the 6 days of the week. Honestly JWs are very commendable.
@Hello411sukr - The JWS are comendable--- so are the Hari crishna- they put the Jws to shame. Does that mean that reincarnation and self enlightenment is the truth? The Jws deny the diety of Jesus Christ--- and ignore what the bible teaches, that is not being organized!!!
@mtavarez4561 i've never heard of the Hari religion and the diety of jesus christ is something i've never seen in my bible(s) because i have 3 from different churches. So i dont think the Jws ignore what the bible teaches. And they study their bible well. Reincarnation maybe true for some people. but idk for sure. do i look like god to you? JWs dont ignore what the bible teaches. idk what crap your trying to spin. Your just sounding like satan trying to mislead someone. go slither elsewhere
@Hello411sukr "I know a lot of ppl from church who are a saint on sunday and demon for the rest of the 6 days of the week. Honestly JWs are very commendable."
And I know JW who are hellraisers during the week and don't want anyone to know. Sorry, that's no basis for giving your organization props.
And Jesus was a teacher of the bible not a preacher. I've often sat in church to hear the priest or minister (i went to catholic and Methodist churches) preach about the bible and come out not remembering a thing. My mothers old church would pass the money basket 3 times throughout service. If you need to struggle and beg that badly to keep your "land of worship" open to the public, you must not how gods blessing. The halls have always been nice and the JWs receive donations instead of begging.
@Hello411sukr "My mothers old church would pass the money basket 3 times throughout service."
So you use this experience at a few churches to diss both religions? Passing the money basket is not a theological reason to reject another religion. In OT times when the Temple had a need, the leaders brought the cause before the people. Sorry, needing financial support doesn't necessarily mean The Most High isn't blessing. Blessings aren't always money. Your analogy fails much!
The WT and Awake were used as a guideline for specific topics but all topics root from the bible. Its more like the magazines support the bible then the other way around. If god is truly here and he's a loving being, im positive that he would at least want us to know his name. Have you ever known a friend or family member for a long time but never knew their name? Dont think so. There are a thousand other reasons, but JWs I feel have come closest to knowing about the bible and God.
@11and15productions I know that. but why do i disgust you? I didnt do or say anything offensive. Seriously take a chill pill. And "you are so dead"? Well we all have to die someday...
You should know that we do use the Bible more than a magazine. We use the magazines Watchtower and Awake to start a conversation for peoples' interests, that way they'll be abole to understand what is going on out in the world and what Jehovah God wants us to do. Maybe the brothers that you studied with didn't know how to explain any ?s you had the way you would understand you knew that there were other brother all over the world that were able to help you understand
@KYsassi325 - no the bible is not used more than the magazines--- i have asked several Jws to show me in Gods word were is says only 144,000 in heaven or where is=t says Jesus is Michael the Archangle-- or why they say hell did not exist and all they could provide me with was from there awake magazing or other JW books - not from the bible.
@KYsassi325 ----explain from the bible - Genesis 1: 26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness .....What did God mean "let US make man in "OUR" image????--- explain that question using the bible and not your magazines. and aslo from the bible please - where does the bible say Jesus is Michael the Archangle???
i know there are jws writing here. brothers . don't fall for this mans ignorence. we should not be getting near these sorts of videos. a king wanted a safe chofer. he tested them by asking, " how close would u get to the edge of the clift without falling?" 1 said a foot another 2 feet a third said 3 feet. the king tuough' " wow there great drivers" the fouth
@migquez123 - "dont fall for this man's ignorance" --- what ignorance are you refering to? can you point out just one thing on this video that you say wld be said in ignorance and defend it with the bible? If you can - then lets see it, if not then you have a problem asking other "brothers" not to listen to this ignorance, when you cant even prove what your saying!!
"study to show thyself approved rightly dividing the word of truth"
Currently a witness we don't use the watchtower as much as the bible in fact we use the bible more if you go to a meeting you will see how often they say "please turn with me to... in the bible" the watchtower is there to help expound on subject brought out in the bible, now I'm not saying we always right but we recognize when we make a mistake a fix it mayb in your area that problem was going on but i can assure you go to a meeting today and you will see different (please read the bible daily)
@mtavarez4561 -- according to WT the 144000k in heaven are JWs - but the bible lists these ppl as Jews and even gives the names of the 12 tribes of isreal. So if the 144k are all jews as the bible states, and the JWs beleive that all the 144k in heaven are JW... then all the JWs in heaven have to be Jewish.
Was Charles Taze Russell a Jew? Why not ask this question at your next kingdom hall meeting?
@mtavarez4561 I ask you, who is speaking? We all know it's Jehovah God! Only the Father conceived the plan to make us, and Christ did the creating, along with the Father, Jehovah! This one scripture proves HEADSHIP! Very important point! Christ is NOT the father! The book of revelation says, "And to the congregation of Laodicea, write: This is what the "Amen" says, the faithful and true witness, THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL GODS CREATION!" Christ was created! By Jehovah God! Headship!
@geetarnut -@geetarnut - "The Firstborne of all GOD's creation!" - quoting Word incorrect it'
The Firstborn over ALL creation" not over all GOD's creation.
Study the Greek--"Firstborn" here means; "Prototokos=First in rank, or Supreme, Pre-eminent one, - this is NOT reffering to chronological order, example: David was considered "Firstborn" over all his brothers but was not the first one born, same with Isaac over ishmael, Joeseph over Ruben,Jacob over Esau.... What do think Firstborne means?
@geetarnut - John 1:1 explains that Jesus was from the beginning --- To say that Jesus was created is contradicting what the bible says. We need to rightly divide the truth.
Colossians goes on to say that Jesus was before all things, which would confirm what John 1;1 says
@mtav - i asked you ealier about Gen 1:26 ..God says"Let US make man in OUR likeness and in OUR image" What does the "US" and "OUR" represent? could it be there is a Trinity? --- oh of coarse not, then explain, what is with the "US" and "OUR"?
How do you explain this if there is no Trinity? I await your reply, if I get no reply i will conclude (based on the bible) that there IS a Trinity and that once again the WTO d/n know what they talking abt and cant proove anythg from the bible!
THERE WAS A STUDY ABOUT THE JEHOVAH WITNESS ORGANIZATION AND THE THE FIRST FOUNDER WAS A SHADY CHARACTER .#1 GAVE FALSE PREDICTIONS .#2 SOLD WHEAT SEEDS CLAIMING IT WOULD GROW 6 TIMES THAN NORMAL WHEAT , GOT SUED FOR THAT . #3 SOLD WHO KNOWS WHAT CLAIMING IT CURED CANCER. AND HE LET 5 ILLITERATE PEOPLE REWRITE THE BIBLE. LOOK IT UP
@Multi5th Actually you would be incorrect. Apostasy would require one of being a former affiliate with any particular religious organization and/or group, which can apply to anyone. The creator of this video doesn't strike me off as a former JW. Secondly you shouldn't presume that all replies are made by JW's seeking to defend their faith.
@Multi5th Actually you would be incorrect. Apostasy would require one of being a former affiliate with any particular religious organization and/or group, which can apply to anyone. The creator of this video doesn't strike me off as a former JW. Secondly you shouldn't presume that all replies are made by JW's seeking to defend their faith. Thirdly CTR didn't technically start the JW religion, in fact many sects of Russellites that may still exist differ on many things from the JW.
@Multi5th Actually you would be incorrect. Apostasy would require one of being a former affiliate with any particular religious organization and/or group, which can apply to anyone. The creator of this video doesn't strike me off as a former JW. Secondly you shouldn't presume that all replies are made by JW's seeking to defend their faith. Thirdly CTR didn't technically start the JW religion, in fact many sects of Russellites that may still exist differ on many things from the JW.
MAN YOU MAKE ME SO MAD! do you see any other religion or people preaching Gods word as jesus said. Do you see any other religion seeking for God wholly not just fro money, DO you see any other religions keep the name of jehovah? No thats why jehovahs witnesses proclaim his name and willl by means of jehovah will find those honesthearted individuals who are blinded by apostates like you and who are blind by babylon the great...opps sorry u dont know who that is,, its false religion! bye
@pgdnice151 Yes there are loads of religions that preach, and loads of missionaries that preach fulltime for no financial compensation whatsoever. And the tetragrammaton isn't even pronounced as "jehovah". Please educate yourself and try to think outside of your cult with its sickening elitist "us against the world" attitude.
@pgdnice151 - Just b/c JWs go door to door does not make them theologically correct, Jesus is not and never was Michael the Archangle, the bible never said 144k limit in heaven, JWs dismiss even the idea of a literal hell, the list goes on..... the falshood JWs spread door to door incredible, and they will not defend their position with the bible ever- always they use literature from WT never from the bible,-- where does our spiritual auth come from? The bible of coarse - then why not use it?
his name is JEHOVAH (psalm 83:18). whether u know it or no u just helped in proclaiming Gods name. thx jehovah btw only draws people willing to learn the TRUTH by those HE choses to bear his name. when the end comes, dont come knocking at his door saying soory jehovah because all youll hear is the sound of those whom are just like you being destroyed. who knows maybe jehovah will open your eyes to see the truth. and also btw you are apostate so stop misleading those learning the truth SATAN
and also you are so not right,as you claim they are fed and eat by what the WTS gives them,not all jw's JUST read what theyre given, not to say they read apostate and false religion stuff but i mean that they do there own research using secular sights and info. if you havent noticed the watchtower also uses secular sources. and why is that Jehovah's witnesses are prospering in all they do? why is christendom failing as time goes on. jw's cnt be stopped and wont be stop from proclaiming Gods name
@pgdnice151 DUDE YOU ARE READING YOUR BIBLE CREATED BY 4 PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT READ OR UNDERSTAND THE OLD BIBLE. AND THE 5TH PERSON HAD ONLY 2 YEARS OF TRAINING. IN MY RELIGION YOU NEED A LIFETIME TO EVEN MAKE A SMALL CHANGE ON THE BIBLE.
@Multi5th please define the word cult...im confused?...oh and also insane...because i think I have a pretty good idea what they mean ..and I have studied with Witnesses for awhile and cant really attribute any of those adjectives so if you would be so kind as to please enlighten me
@lutzchoco1 They dont ask for money or pass around a "collection" lol plate...so when you say pay? what are you referring to?...as far as shut up lmao...They will answer any question for you directly from the Holy Scriptures, not the watchtower...this dude said he studied for 2months lol really?...but at the same time Darwins theory of evolution was based on 2 months of research and we know how accurate he was lol...smh
@chadsgirl007 they have made prophesies about armageddon in the past but admit they were and even attempting to predict that was wrong and have not prophisied since
@chadsgirl007 , i agree with this chadsgirl007 person. but u should know matt, not all jehovahs witnesses just study what the WTS gives them as you say in an question and answer way, in whioch they provide the answer. and how long did you study with jehovahs witnesses? i bet not long enough to know for yourself and prove to yourself that as a whole jehovah does in fact use jehovahs witnesses to carry his name and by means of jehovahs witnesses the Bible is understood properly.
@chadsgirl007 I'm sorry but your statement could not be any more ignorant. If you truly seek the truth, I urge you to study the Jehovahs Witness History! If your honest to yourself, you will see the truth.
@chadsgirl007 --- what have they altered? what prophecies have NOT come true?
A person almost looks foolish even asking these questions - with little research you can find all the false predictions of Jesus's return, their beleive that Jesus is Michael the Archangle ....
Jws say Jesus came to earth invisible in 1914 Jws dont belive in Hell -- doesnt matter what the bible says -- only matters what WT organization says --- research it!!!!!!!!!!!!
@mtavarez4561 Actually, The Bible does state in Matthew 24:9(b) "You will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name". Look around, almost nobody likes us because we spread the word. Mark 13:7-9. Some have not happened yet, but look at the ones that have. You are free to visit our media website for clarification to Mark 13:9. Lastly the first half of Matthew chapter 24 helps point out some more detail of what Jesus prophecised.
@179trumpet- when i became a Christian i was shunned by family and friends, not because of door to door but because of the new person l am in Christ Jesus. No doubt there is hatred toward the JWs for door to door that does not confirm that what you are preaching door to door is correct doctrine Jesus is not Michael the Archangle many many more inconsistencies...
! the WT is only used as a guide in learning the BIBLE... it is used to make things easier to understand for people like you.... so stop being a slanderer and shame the devil!
@deci478 ----" the WT is only used as a guide in learning the BIBLE... " this is NOT true because The WT does not teach the bible but rather the opinons of the governing body. this is not and organization from Jehovah God but rather from a mad man CTR- but of coarse you will call me an apostate for saying this rather than researching it - reaearching this may get you disfellowshipped that sounds like its from Jehovah God?
U RACIST HOMO!!!....Y GOTTA BE HATEN ONE RELIGION FOR HUH?..JW IS ABOUT JESUS AND GOD...THERE ARE OTHER RELIGIONS OUT THERE THAT DOES NOT TEACH ABOUT JESUS OR GOD...SO Y ONLY JEHOVAH WITNESES?..GOT SOMETHING AGAINST CHRISTIANITY?...ALL I SEE FROM UR VIDEOS ARE NEGATIVITY ABOUT JW..
if you had went to meetings you'd know that the first half of the meeting they read the bible do some songs as a break(3 beginning middle ending of the meeting) then they do the watch tower and ask questions and you can do family studies and read the bible yourself
I study'd w/JWs off and on all my life. When i was a child, my JW aunt told me that i'll go to hell if i watch Harry Potter. But now she says that there is no Hell for humans. My uncle who is religious told me that jehovah isnt gods name when i was a child. and now he sings church songs that have the word "jehovah" in them. Im not sure what to think about any religion. But I do think that JWs are the nicest religious people i've ever met :)
I'm sorry but 2 months of Bible Study is not enough time to even start to give a true analysis of JW...it is certainly your lost that you discontinued your Study.
the major factor that inhibits real dialogue concerning JW beliefs is their private version of the scripture (the New World Translation) which supplies a faulty premise in their reasoning about the nature of God. It's really no different than when Joseph Smith decided the scriptures weren't reliable without his "special knowledge". Paul said in Galations, "If we or even an angel of god proclaim a "different" gospel, then let them be anathema. JW is a different gospel and so is Mormonism.
Good man You are a open minded person I wish I was 40 years ago. I have been so stupid to follow watch tower. Lie,Lie,and lies, My life in the trush. How can i help my family to get out? thank you for the information? i will share it.
dynamite vid. the jw's come to my place every week and we have a talk. i will find out if they will address some of your issues or not. a refusal would look suspicious, would it not?
There is no god. You are your own god and you are the only one to shape your future. When you die you stop exist, and everything you have lived for is fading away. But for you, it will only be black. You don't exist after death, there is no god that created the humankind. We will all see how earth was created through mars eventually, maybe not in out lifetime, but in a distant future.
@Darlica1 --- i can see that satan hs been most effective in training your thoughts, unfortunately, you , along with others will see that there is a a living God as the bible states, in a not so distant future..
@mtavarez4561 Satan? I did just say that I don't believe in some higher power. But actually you are part right, I'm a la-vey satanist, that simply means that I believe that I'am my own god.
According to the "New World Translation" Jesus was "a" God...not Jehovah, but "a" God. In Isaiah 43:10, in their own bible, Jehovah says, ""Before me there was no God formed and after me there continued to be none".... oops....
If Jesus is "a God" then he must be a false god....and if Jesus is a "false" god, then there's no gospel, no good news...and no "Savior"... because Jesus definitely claimed to be the Savior. Well done video...and much more could be said about JW false teachings.
@juliemillerfan i would just like to clear your confusion. in the new world translation i would like for you to look up psalms 83:18. it CLEARLY states "that the people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the most high over all the earth."
@8917cutie89 That's fine... but you didn't really answer the question... if Jesus a false god or a true god?....
I appreciate the dialogue that we could have concerning this. I believe truth matters and I think you believe that also.... so, if the JW's are correct in their understanding of the nature of God, then I want to believe them. If not, and the bible teaches that Jesus is God, then I want that to be made clear also. Thanks for posting....
@juliemillerfan You're asking whether or not Jesus is a false god or a true god and the answer is neither. There is nothing false regarding him, yet even Jesus himself in John 17:3 stated that the only true God was the father. Not to mention the word "god" according to scripture was applied to many things. The NWT also doesn't hinder any real dialogue with a JW since their theology was pretty firm long before the NWT came about, they use the Bible. Now Mormonism may be another story.
@mistersMsMonica "For there has been a child born to us. There has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, "Mighty God", Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6 NWT).... this scripture concerns the coming of the Messiah, Jesus the Christ (anointed one).... This is just one of many scriptures that point to the fact that the coming Messiah (Jesus) would be called by these names, Mighty God being one....
@juliemillerfan The hebrew word which we translated as "God" or "gods" in the Hebrew Scriptures is the word Elohim. God (YHWH) is also called Eloah or El. As I initially pointed out while the word El is typically in reference to God its also used in reference to other gods, individuals and inanimate objects, ergo the word El itself doesn't imply deity. Citing Isaiah 9:6 doesn't negate my initial post since Elohim or God can refer to anything and anyone. Even scriptures makes that clear.
@mistersMsMonica If that's the case it sounds like you are rendering the word El, or Elohim only in matters that support your theology rather than reading the scripture for all it's worth, or in the manner intended. That reasoning would negate using the word "Jehovah" for a supreme deity also...so, saying that Satan is "god" of this world would be just as relevant as saying that Jehovah is "god" of this world. Also, Isaiah 6:9 emphasizes the term "mighty" God, not just "god" or "a god".
@juliemillerfan That's a mighty brazen presumption given the fact that you're essentially doing the exact same thing. Given the fact that you'll willfully ignore the meaning of El as well as its ancient usage if its in direct conflict with your theology. I can give you a number of scriptures that are in direct odds with your theology and you'll likely "not read the scripture for all its worth or in the manner intended".
@mistersMsMonica So you're actually admitting that I'm doing the "exact same thing" as the JW's are doing, applying "my" theology to the reading of scripture. The vital difference is that I'm not being influenced by the rendering (or "rending") of scripture by one man, Charles Russell, who changed scripture to support his own distortions of historic Christianity, which has always held to the Deity of Christ. How did people ever get saved before Charles came along to straighten us all out?....
@juliemillerfan I admitted nothing, I merely gave you a mirror to reflect on whenever you accuse others. There is a vital difference, one being that your theology is from centuries of erroneous teachings that deviated from accurate doctrine. Secondly this has absolutely nothing to do with Charles Russell as there exist those whom don't ascribe to his teachings and yet still hold the trinity to be false. And when you say deity of Christ what exactly do you mean? that Christ is now the Father?
@mistersMsMonica Most heresies begin with a misunderstanding of the nature of God. Christians are Mono-Theists, not believing in "3" Gods, but understanding the bible to teach that God is a "triune-being"... One God revealed in 3 "distinct" persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is validated by ALL the New Testament writers, but Charles Russell made changes towards the NWT to disuade readers from that belief. It was Mr. Russel's misunderstanding of such that started the entire JW Movement.
@juliemillerfan Considering the fact that CT Russell died in 1916 and the NWT came in the 50’s I find it very unlikely Russell anything to do with its conception, let alone making changes towards it. So either you're very ignorant of the history or you're very dishonest. And like I initially stated, our discussion has nothing to do with Russell or his teachings. Secondly I'm going to infer that you don't understand the nature of God considering the fact that you ignored my last question.
@mistersMsMonica It really is irrelevant, whether CT Russell changed the NWT or not. The fact is, it was CHANGED! And you are no doubt reading it. The fact that the translators, did not even know greek or hebrew, and lied under oath is something you overlook as well. The Trinity , has been the biblical view, since the apostles. But there has always been heresies that spring forth, from those who have not had their eyes opened by God. It starts by denying Christs deity!
@Haukman66 I KNOW its irrelevant, because he had nothing to do with it, period! Secondly I'm not even arguing whether or not the translators knew hebrew or greek. Heck I'm not even arguing in favor of JW doctrine period as you erroneously assume me to be a JW because I find the trinity intrinsically faulty. So the trinity has been a biblical views since the apostles? Highly unlikely. The apostles knew they were following the Messiah and not YHWH in the flesh or a secondary part of godhead.
@mistersMsMonica Oh, so you presume to know who the apostle thought they were following? Hmm...well, maybe go read the gospel of John? John surely thought Jesus was deity. So did Thomas, who called him God! Hmm...so did the pharisees, who picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God. How much more evidence do you need?
@Haukman66 For a certainty I do not presume, unlike yourself. And I did read the gospels which is what lead me into rejecting the trinity doctrine as nonsensical. The Pharisees charged Christ with claiming equality with God, not that he was God incarnate, that's a vast difference. I also weight all evidence, not merely a few vague text stretched out of context.
@mistersMsMonica The pharisees said specifically, "You make yourself God". John 10:33. They didnt say, "equal to God" in that verse. As I said, Jesus never denied that He was God, and accepted worship, which only God should be worshipped. A few "vague" texts huh? LOL. Gimme a break.
@Haukman66 The passage naturally "you being a man make yourself a god." which is how an ancient Koine Greek speaker would phrase it. Interestingly Jesus follows with "Is it not written in your Law, "I (YAHWEH) said, 'you are gods'?" Jesus silences his jewish opposers with Yahweh's own words where he calls other men "gods". Secondly Jesus never denied being God because he never claimed to be God, he makes it fairly clear. Thirdly, when does Jesus accepts worship?
@mistersMsMonica I should of thought you would try the "a" god argument. Thats not what the text says. Same with John 1:1 which has been refuted by all greek scholars worth mentioning. Jesus made it clear that he WASNT God? Hmm..where?
Worship? Well, God tells the angels to worship Jesus in Hebrews 1:6. He was worshipped in Matt. 14:33, 28:9, John 9:35-38. He was even worshipped as a baby. Matt. 2:2, 11. Have you read the bible?
@Haukman66 My do I enjoy the trinitarian appeal to likely trinitarian scholars as if they are an infallible and unified voice when neither is the case. As in the case of Matt 2:2,11 you seem to conveniently forget that the Magi weren't even Jews, evidently they came to proskyneo worship a human infant not God, which was used by the ancient Greek speaking people to refer to "worship" of ANY higher authority. Its Hebrew equivalent shachah is seen throughout the OT in connection to others men.
@mistersMsMonica Your argumentation is week. You appeal to typical WT writings. You are skirting the issue. What difference would it make, if the wisemen were jews or not? Matthew mentioned them for a reason. They worshipped Christ. And Jesus said in Luke 4:8 to worship (proskuneo) God only. So dont run to your WT and give me the same tired arguments. I know you dont know the orginal language, you are parroting your organizations words.
"I know you dont know the orginal language, you are parroting your organizations words."
I guess you are obtuse. Suppose its hard for you to fantom the possibility that there exist individuals that reject the Trinity without inherently being affiliated with the WT. Going over this entire exchange and you were already told TWICE that this poster was not affiliated with the WT and yet despite it all you still parroting anti-jw rhetoric.
@Samc023 "Going over this entire exchange and you were already told TWICE that this poster was not affiliated with the WT and yet despite it all you still parroting anti-jw rhetoric." Maybe you didnt read my last post to that person? It went something like this:"Sorry for that. Its just you are using the same arguments the WT uses. But I will keep that in mind in responding to you in the future."
@Samc023 It is hard when you get multiple responses from someone all at the same time, to know what was said at what time. I get a response, and I answer that particular response, even though that person may have said 2 or 3 other responses afterward!
"I get a response, and I answer that particular response, even though that person may have said 2 or 3 other responses afterward!"
Riiight, but in all fairness you were told from jump mistermrsmonica's position and yet you still kept up with the "parroting wt" bit, but I digress. I'm starting to believe you spammed my replies from last time. Hope that's not the case.
@Haukman66 I wasn't refuting scripture neither would I ever attempt to do so. However I do take Jesus for his word when he calls his Father the only true God. I also embrace the idea that Jesus existence is dependent on the Father and the Father's existence in dependent on no one 2 Cor 13. And while I have no qualms with "greek" experts I would place much more stock in one without any bias or agenda when translating,
@mistersMsMonica When Jesus was saying, the Father is the only true God, he was distinguishing between the True God, and the False Gods. If you say that the Father is the "only true God", then you would have to admit, that Jesus is a "false" God would you not? After all, I think you would say, John 1:1 calls Jesus(the word) "a" god. So, in light of what you are saying about this passage, Jesus must be a "false" god?
@Haukman66 And what viable proof do you have that Jesus would have to distinguish his Father from other false gods in a personal prayer? Jesus doesn't even include himself or the holy spirit but recognizes the Father as the only true God. What you are claiming is a stretch especially since throughout the NT YHWH is identified as Jesus' God AND Father.
@mistersMsMonica And who says Jesus needs to claim deity to the Father? I am sure the Father knows Jesus. As a matter of fact, God, the Father calls Jesus God in Hebrews 1. And I would appreciate that verse, in the NT that tells me "YHWH" is identified as Jesus' God and Father? (Not that I deny Jesus has a Father) I am saying, Jesus is YHWH, just as the Father is YHWH.
@Haukman66 See the mental gymnastics you have to do in order to justify the absurdity of this doctrine? Just look as how you rationalize each and every verse you're given, then you attempt to deflect by throwing in an entirely new scripture. You basically undermined John 17:3, so either Jesus is lying or he's misleading people. And yes, if Jesus has deity that would have been the appropriate time to claim it using "we" or "us", rather he says "you" while discounting himself and the HS.
@mistersMsMonica "See the mental gymnastics you have to do in order to justify the absurdity of this doctrine? Just look as how you rationalize each and every verse you're given, then you attempt to deflect by throwing in an entirely new scripture." I addressed that verse, just because you wont accept my answer, doesnt mean I "deflected" it. That is the difference with me and you. I take ALL of scripture. Not just one or 2 verses. I am waiting on that verse from you.
to my fellow brothers and sisters out there who maybe whatching this,please remember,nomatter wut,we will always recive critisism from this fleshly world,and that we will hav haters,but remember to keep strong because nomatter what,jehovah will always be there for us.and for those who r reading this and are not jws,please note that we are not a cult.people cant just go around saying that just becuz they hate us.its like saying i hate penut butter to everyone and all of a sudden its evil
nikosfilipino 21 hours ago
Matt Slick was always a joke to me on Paltalk. =P
TheGenuineChristian 1 day ago
As a former witness myself, i'd have watched this and thought this guy is blinded by satan, or he's deluded. A witness won't even realise charles taze russel used pyramidology (a PAGAN practice) to work out the year 1914 (and he wasn't even the origonal president). A witness is trained to think anything said against the watchtower is deluded. I find all religion as faulty as eachother.
CEEJLESS 2 days ago
Your information is incorrect
ladynyla2624 2 days ago
@ladynyla2624 I think the only information that is incorrect, is studying the bible by itself is somehow more enlightening...when really the bible has a lot of flaws, and is definetly not somehow magically inspired by a 'perfect god.'
CEEJLESS 2 days ago
That religion is full of Jackasses. Just look at them, all of them wanna to be in our world.
WripRoss 4 days ago
GOD SUCKS HAIRY COW BALLS WHILE HE RIDES THE DEVILS DICK!
michiman57 1 week ago
@michiman57 He does not.
Andysingtoyou 1 week ago
@Andysingtoyou yeah i know... hes just a primitive concept to try to explain how the world came to be, just like all the other couple hundred religion who claim their god is the one and only creator. funny thing is none of them have any evidence at all to have the right to say their religion is the only true one, including christianity. stop this delusion
michiman57 1 week ago
ok lets say u r rite whe u say that an organization should not tell u what 2 think n do .......n my question would b what about da cristendom who runs da show around da entire world n da media which invites u 2 do exactly what da bible condenms
spide090410 1 week ago
@spide090410 this is faulty reasoning. You will find millions upon millions of people find all religious people believe in nonsense. You say, the media invites people to do exactly as the bible condemns. This is assuming the bible is somehow the moral guideline everyone should follow. You cant deny in the bible, children were to be stoned if they were disobedient to their parents. A woman could be put to death if she was raped and didn't scream. So why don't you follow those rules?
CEEJLESS 2 days ago
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tgillspy2 1 week ago
Matt Slick needs to oversee his CARM discussion forum boss - named "Diane". If he is okay with her unfair treatments, judging, controlling, banning people for doing nothing wrong, etc... then I wouldn't wish to watch anything Matt has to share. Diane either has him fooled or he doesn't closely watch her action and behavior at the discussion forums. Or both.
SusieArviso 2 weeks ago
What a liar.I have been to many meetings with the jehovas witness,and i thank god every day that he saved me from a terrible cult.They call it a watchtower study,not a bible study.I pray and hope that the people who are in that cult will be free someday.
MultiVistamar 2 weeks ago
4 words. READ YOUR BIBLE DAILY!!!!
TheJustbecause09 2 weeks ago
let's bow our heads and pray in name of Charles taze russell , the man who came to save us, and teach us the truth !!!! idiots !!
santosfran 2 weeks ago
I thank you for not being aggainst us
SoundProductions21 2 weeks ago
oistttttttttttttt.............
now u can back ,,i love the them and magazin so awsomeeee
justcallmeapril2011 3 weeks ago
The JW's is a dangerous cult........
tgillspy2 3 weeks ago 6
@tgillspy2 As bad as the Mormons!!!
tattoodfreeek 3 weeks ago
@tattoodfreeek Yes....
tgillspy2 3 weeks ago
@tgillspy2 Dick Whore Fag
TrollDaNonBelievers 1 week ago
@TrollDaNonBelievers You acting like a loser....
tgillspy2 1 week ago
אנשים זה אולי לדעת שאתה, ששמו יהוה, אתה לבדך עליון על כל הארץ. תהילים, 83:18
179trumpet 3 weeks ago
@geetarnut Why are you called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" and not "Christians"? Since Jehovah's Witnesses appeal to Isa 43:12; 44:8 for scriptural support that they should be called, "Jehovah's Witnesses" then what was the "new name" prophesied in Isa 62:2? Can't be "Jehovah's Witnesses", for God already used it 20 chapters earlier. Could the new name be "Christian" after our savior "Christ"?
Jesransam 3 weeks ago
@geetarnut If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?
Jesransam 3 weeks ago
@Jesransam I See exactly what you're saying but think about this.It says "Given", who is the person who gave that name?Also it says "Under heaven" so what about in heaven.What is the highest name in heaven?
Guitaristguy0702 3 weeks ago
@11and15productions -Jesus was not the first Angel ever made, he was the wonderful counselor,almighty God, the everlasting Father, the price of peace. isaiah 9:6
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
What you are saying is spot on in this video. Any organization that controls what you think is a cult! These people are brainwashed.
I had a JW on my job who wouldn't even look at the little video player I had because it was showing a Christian video at the time. I was showing her the model not the video but she was trained to not look at anything from another religion, yet she walks around trying to unload her organization's literature. I'm not intimidated reading about another religion.
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago 2
The JW are a cult plain and simple. They control what you do, where you go, what you watch on tv, what to study if you go to college, but they don't encourage education and what to think. I know folks who have been excommunicated for questioning their doctrine. They regurgitate the same crap. Every JW who came to my door always address the world we live in like I'm blind and don't see what's happening. Debating with one is totally useless because if you're going against them satan is using you.
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago
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mtavarez4561 4 weeks ago
Okay...... The watchtower is a reference to the bible, it helps reach certain parts of the bible, and relates it to modern day issues. The watchtower may 'suggest' what to study, but we have complete control of what we study in the Bible. And to help break it down 1st quote, Jehovah's channel of communtication is the Bible, the faithful and discreet slave is he who studies. 2nd quote, the Chritian congregation are those Christian worshipers. We are led by the Bible, the watchtower is aids.
179casi 4 weeks ago
@179casi The watchtower mag. may be an aid but how often have you arrived at a conclusion differing from theirs? Have you studied Greek & Hebrew? If not, how do you know that their NWT is correct? Have you listen to anyone else points of view other than those of JWs? It's a proven fact that those who have questioned their doctrine were excommunicated. They break up more families than any other religion. If you studied on your own I'd bet you will find discrepancies.
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago
Satan has often used apostates in an effort to corrupt true worship—but to no avail. About the year 1868, Charles Taze Russell began a careful examination of long-accepted doctrines of Christendom’s churches and found misinterpretations of the Scriptures.
Faith in God's Word.
Despite the wiles of the foremost apostate, the spiritual vigilance of the faithful and discreet slave class has helped these true Christians to remain loyal to Jehovah and his Word.—Matthew 24:45.
Love of Jehovah
Meditate2me2 4 weeks ago
@Meditate2me2 There is no reasoning/debating with JW cause according to you guys satan uses everyone who disagrees with your doctrine. You all regurgitate the same nonsense. The same garbage another JW told me yesterday. You put your trust in Russell? Don't you have a mind of your own? Did you do a careful examination of what JW teach? Did you do a careful examination of the NWT and compared it to the Greek? I appreciate the "apostates" because they are gaining common sense and left this cult!
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago
@YhwhKhaiMostHigh We do not believe satan uses everyone that does not agree with us, everyone has their own free will, satan influences persons to do wrong. A person has a choice of allowing Gods holly spirit to influence you to do what it right, and to protect you from satan.
179trumpet 4 weeks ago
@Meditate2me2 --- "Charles Taze Russell began a careful examination of long-accepted doctrines of Christendom’s churches and found misinterpretations of the Scriptures."
Misrepresentation of scripture? Like what? Jesus Christ being Michael the Archangel? Or the non existence of Hell? or what Jesus's return in 1914?
id like to know what "Misrepresentation of Scripture" did Charles Russell clear up?????
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
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mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
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@Meditate2me2 ---- If i asked you to explain Genesis 1:26, to explain where God said "Let us make man in OUR own likeness and in Our own image" ---if i asked you to explain from the bible what was meant by "US" and "OUR" ? would you consider me an apostate for asking this question?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
If you want to know Watchtower article is true or not,
I recommend you to read Bible.
And if there's any unreasonable theory against Bible,
or wrong quote from eminent reference, or misinterpretation of Bible.
Please let us know by making another video.
SchalchinovAramaki 1 month ago
Ok thats your statement...and whats your truth then? Whats your truth about everything in this world? Can you explain better?? So do it!
musicpassionforever 1 month ago
That is not true what you're saying about the kingdom halls of jehovah witness they in courage you to learn about other religions so you can get a better understanding of what's going on. And they were able to answer all my questions and that makes perfect sense to me thank goodness for their organization. I do believe that is coming from a higher power the god of the most high of all gods.
Debann40 1 month ago
@Debann40--- ia hate to dis agree with u but i do -- the WT will not learn any other religions - where did you get that from? according to JWS all other religions a apostates and yes they anser questions according to their twisted view -- example Jesus is not Michael the Archangle --- but JWS teach this twisted doctrine and deny the diety of Jesus Christ
mtavarez4561 4 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 Debann40 is right. I had a study with them yesterday. And they want people to see the different religions. That way you can tell which religion is false and which is true.And then stay away from the false ones because jehovah god is going to destroy them. it makes perfect sense. Satan has all these religions to blind us and lead us away from god. and where are theses Hari's? They're not preaching at my door! what they're trying to keep the truth to themselves?
Hello411sukr 4 weeks ago
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@Hello411sukr ----"Debann40 is right. I had a study with them yesterday. And they want people to see the different religions. That way you can tell which religion is false and which is true" This could not be farther from the truth - The JW's are not allowed to study from any other bible accept NWT - and they will not in any depth discuss or attempt to discuss anything out side what the WTO teaches in fact they can be shunned or worse for doing so, i know this for a FACT!!
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 I know Jesus wouldnt keep gods word to himself. The Jws are on all walks of the earth. Im sure if God wanted to tell everyone about him and his truth, he wouldnt entrust it to the Haris! I've never heard of them nor have i seen them! If you want to put a video up and have the world see it, would you really pick a website that no one has heard of!?! I dont think so. Jw is defiantly the true religion.
Hello411sukr 4 weeks ago
@Hello411sukr ----" I know Jesus wouldnt keep gods word to himself" So your saying that just because the JWs door to door more than others - they have the truth? Would this be true for Mormons' as well? Or are they just a little true because they dont door to door quite as much? ----- did you consider that JWs and Mormons are in a works based religion? has nothing to do with who has the TRUTH, if tht ws true then Morms wld have a little truth as well, ask yrslf -- do Morms hv the truth also?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 U went from the Hati's to the Morms. For U to change ur subject of the Hatis religion to Morms makes me think that u're trying to advert the conversation. I c that u've messaged alot of ppl on here. & now i just think that your some sad looser whos just trying to find something to place your anger upon. Im not going to bother reading your comments when they're not important. like i said satan, Slither elsewhere. if u reply i will find amusement in deleting your comment w/o reading.
Hello411sukr 2 weeks ago
@Hello411sukr -spoken like a true person that has no idea why they beleive what ever they belive, the only one avoiding ?s is you because you dont know what you belive - you diserve the JWs everybody can just blinding follow the person in front them - if that wrks for you it works for me - --- and if you didnt read my post then you would not have replied - so happy reading-- have a nice day!!!
mtavarez4561 2 weeks ago
@Debann40 How do JW encourage you to learn about other religions? Do they tell you to speak with others in that religion for a fuller understanding or do they tell you everything about the other religions themselves?
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago
we read the bible each day
GunnerMan963 1 month ago
Just because they dont run around acting like they're possessed, or get down on their knees every 20 seconds for no reason doesnt mean the JWs are a cult. They're religion is just more organized and sophisticated then the others. Instead of being lazy and doing things that are convent for them, the JWs do their best to follow Jesus example. I know a lot of ppl from church who are a saint on sunday and demon for the rest of the 6 days of the week. Honestly JWs are very commendable.
Hello411sukr 1 month ago
@Hello411sukr - The JWS are comendable--- so are the Hari crishna- they put the Jws to shame. Does that mean that reincarnation and self enlightenment is the truth? The Jws deny the diety of Jesus Christ--- and ignore what the bible teaches, that is not being organized!!!
mtavarez4561 4 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 i've never heard of the Hari religion and the diety of jesus christ is something i've never seen in my bible(s) because i have 3 from different churches. So i dont think the Jws ignore what the bible teaches. And they study their bible well. Reincarnation maybe true for some people. but idk for sure. do i look like god to you? JWs dont ignore what the bible teaches. idk what crap your trying to spin. Your just sounding like satan trying to mislead someone. go slither elsewhere
Hello411sukr 4 weeks ago
@Hello411sukr -My point to you is to take a hard look at what the JW's teach and not just at how comendable you think they are,
What does the bible say about Jesus Christ and the diety of Jesus Christ? Who he is.. and what do the JW's teach?
What does the bible say about heaven and the 144,000?
What does the bible say about Hell and the exsistence of Hell? What do the JW's teach?
on these important topics you'll see that the JW's do not follow what the bible says!!!
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hello411sukr "I know a lot of ppl from church who are a saint on sunday and demon for the rest of the 6 days of the week. Honestly JWs are very commendable."
And I know JW who are hellraisers during the week and don't want anyone to know. Sorry, that's no basis for giving your organization props.
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago
And Jesus was a teacher of the bible not a preacher. I've often sat in church to hear the priest or minister (i went to catholic and Methodist churches) preach about the bible and come out not remembering a thing. My mothers old church would pass the money basket 3 times throughout service. If you need to struggle and beg that badly to keep your "land of worship" open to the public, you must not how gods blessing. The halls have always been nice and the JWs receive donations instead of begging.
Hello411sukr 1 month ago
@Hello411sukr "My mothers old church would pass the money basket 3 times throughout service."
So you use this experience at a few churches to diss both religions? Passing the money basket is not a theological reason to reject another religion. In OT times when the Temple had a need, the leaders brought the cause before the people. Sorry, needing financial support doesn't necessarily mean The Most High isn't blessing. Blessings aren't always money. Your analogy fails much!
YhwhKhaiMostHigh 4 weeks ago
The WT and Awake were used as a guideline for specific topics but all topics root from the bible. Its more like the magazines support the bible then the other way around. If god is truly here and he's a loving being, im positive that he would at least want us to know his name. Have you ever known a friend or family member for a long time but never knew their name? Dont think so. There are a thousand other reasons, but JWs I feel have come closest to knowing about the bible and God.
Hello411sukr 1 month ago
@11and15productions I know that. but why do i disgust you? I didnt do or say anything offensive. Seriously take a chill pill. And "you are so dead"? Well we all have to die someday...
Hello411sukr 1 month ago
@Hello411sukr soz...
11and15productions 1 month ago
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Hello411sukr 1 month ago
You should know that we do use the Bible more than a magazine. We use the magazines Watchtower and Awake to start a conversation for peoples' interests, that way they'll be abole to understand what is going on out in the world and what Jehovah God wants us to do. Maybe the brothers that you studied with didn't know how to explain any ?s you had the way you would understand you knew that there were other brother all over the world that were able to help you understand
KYsassi325 1 month ago
@KYsassi325 - no the bible is not used more than the magazines--- i have asked several Jws to show me in Gods word were is says only 144,000 in heaven or where is=t says Jesus is Michael the Archangle-- or why they say hell did not exist and all they could provide me with was from there awake magazing or other JW books - not from the bible.
mtavarez4561 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KYsassi325 ----explain from the bible - Genesis 1: 26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness .....What did God mean "let US make man in "OUR" image????--- explain that question using the bible and not your magazines. and aslo from the bible please - where does the bible say Jesus is Michael the Archangle???
mtavarez4561
mtavarez4561 4 weeks ago
You slick what you have said, Thou shall not use of Jehovah's name in vain... you will surely DIE...
ABUEVALARRY 1 month ago
i know there are jws writing here. brothers . don't fall for this mans ignorence. we should not be getting near these sorts of videos.
migquez123 1 month ago
@migquez123 Of course not! Because someone who is seeking truth might be compelled to believe the truth. Jesus said, repent or perish.
knownamecris 1 month ago
i know there are jws writing here. brothers . don't fall for this mans ignorence. we should not be getting near these sorts of videos. a king wanted a safe chofer. he tested them by asking, " how close would u get to the edge of the clift without falling?" 1 said a foot another 2 feet a third said 3 feet. the king tuough' " wow there great drivers" the fouth
migquez123 1 month ago
@migquez123 - "dont fall for this man's ignorance" --- what ignorance are you refering to? can you point out just one thing on this video that you say wld be said in ignorance and defend it with the bible? If you can - then lets see it, if not then you have a problem asking other "brothers" not to listen to this ignorance, when you cant even prove what your saying!!
"study to show thyself approved rightly dividing the word of truth"
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
Currently a witness we don't use the watchtower as much as the bible in fact we use the bible more if you go to a meeting you will see how often they say "please turn with me to... in the bible" the watchtower is there to help expound on subject brought out in the bible, now I'm not saying we always right but we recognize when we make a mistake a fix it mayb in your area that problem was going on but i can assure you go to a meeting today and you will see different (please read the bible daily)
6043860438 1 month ago 7
@6043860438 --- if you go to a meeting you will see how often they say "please turn with me to... in the bible"
Okay then please turn with me to in yoiur bible Gen !:26 Explain where God says"Let US make man in OUR likeness and in OUR image"
what does the "US" and "OUR" represent????
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 -- according to WT the 144000k in heaven are JWs - but the bible lists these ppl as Jews and even gives the names of the 12 tribes of isreal. So if the 144k are all jews as the bible states, and the JWs beleive that all the 144k in heaven are JW... then all the JWs in heaven have to be Jewish.
Was Charles Taze Russell a Jew? Why not ask this question at your next kingdom hall meeting?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 I ask you, who is speaking? We all know it's Jehovah God! Only the Father conceived the plan to make us, and Christ did the creating, along with the Father, Jehovah! This one scripture proves HEADSHIP! Very important point! Christ is NOT the father! The book of revelation says, "And to the congregation of Laodicea, write: This is what the "Amen" says, the faithful and true witness, THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL GODS CREATION!" Christ was created! By Jehovah God! Headship!
geetarnut 3 weeks ago
@geetarnnut - so you dont agree with Isaiah 9:6 okay what about Genesis 1:26?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@geetarnut -@geetarnut - "The Firstborne of all GOD's creation!" - quoting Word incorrect it'
The Firstborn over ALL creation" not over all GOD's creation.
Study the Greek--"Firstborn" here means; "Prototokos=First in rank, or Supreme, Pre-eminent one, - this is NOT reffering to chronological order, example: David was considered "Firstborn" over all his brothers but was not the first one born, same with Isaac over ishmael, Joeseph over Ruben,Jacob over Esau.... What do think Firstborne means?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@geetarnut - John 1:1 explains that Jesus was from the beginning --- To say that Jesus was created is contradicting what the bible says. We need to rightly divide the truth.
Colossians goes on to say that Jesus was before all things, which would confirm what John 1;1 says
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
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@geetarnut --- i asked the question earlier explain Gen !:26 Explain where God says"Let US make man in OUR likeness and in OUR image"
what does the "US" and "OUR" represent?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
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@mtav - i asked you ealier about Gen 1:26 ..God says"Let US make man in OUR likeness and in OUR image" What does the "US" and "OUR" represent? could it be there is a Trinity? --- oh of coarse not, then explain, what is with the "US" and "OUR"?
How do you explain this if there is no Trinity? I await your reply, if I get no reply i will conclude (based on the bible) that there IS a Trinity and that once again the WTO d/n know what they talking abt and cant proove anythg from the bible!
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@6043860438 do you believe that the watchtower was correct when it said that Christ's work would end during the 20th century?
junglehappiness 3 weeks ago
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@6043860438 ..... I will like to discuss some key issues with you off line. Seems as though you are very knowledgeable here.
Please email me at ..... mikartt at hotmail dot com
I will look forward to hear from you.
Blessings.....
mikartt7 3 weeks ago
THERE WAS A STUDY ABOUT THE JEHOVAH WITNESS ORGANIZATION AND THE THE FIRST FOUNDER WAS A SHADY CHARACTER .#1 GAVE FALSE PREDICTIONS .#2 SOLD WHEAT SEEDS CLAIMING IT WOULD GROW 6 TIMES THAN NORMAL WHEAT , GOT SUED FOR THAT . #3 SOLD WHO KNOWS WHAT CLAIMING IT CURED CANCER. AND HE LET 5 ILLITERATE PEOPLE REWRITE THE BIBLE. LOOK IT UP
victor3002006 1 month ago
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you're sick man.
tjay25ful 1 month ago
you're sick man.
tjay25ful 1 month ago
what a load of bunkum! get a life man
amstellori 1 month ago
@Multi5th Actually you would be incorrect. Apostasy would require one of being a former affiliate with any particular religious organization and/or group, which can apply to anyone. The creator of this video doesn't strike me off as a former JW. Secondly you shouldn't presume that all replies are made by JW's seeking to defend their faith.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@Multi5th Actually you would be incorrect. Apostasy would require one of being a former affiliate with any particular religious organization and/or group, which can apply to anyone. The creator of this video doesn't strike me off as a former JW. Secondly you shouldn't presume that all replies are made by JW's seeking to defend their faith. Thirdly CTR didn't technically start the JW religion, in fact many sects of Russellites that may still exist differ on many things from the JW.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@Multi5th Actually you would be incorrect. Apostasy would require one of being a former affiliate with any particular religious organization and/or group, which can apply to anyone. The creator of this video doesn't strike me off as a former JW. Secondly you shouldn't presume that all replies are made by JW's seeking to defend their faith. Thirdly CTR didn't technically start the JW religion, in fact many sects of Russellites that may still exist differ on many things from the JW.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
Praise ye YAH, in Yahshua's nam. Thank you for the upload. Good work, Mr. Slick.
cboneofenglewood 1 month ago
MAN YOU MAKE ME SO MAD! do you see any other religion or people preaching Gods word as jesus said. Do you see any other religion seeking for God wholly not just fro money, DO you see any other religions keep the name of jehovah? No thats why jehovahs witnesses proclaim his name and willl by means of jehovah will find those honesthearted individuals who are blinded by apostates like you and who are blind by babylon the great...opps sorry u dont know who that is,, its false religion! bye
pgdnice151 1 month ago
@pgdnice151 Yes there are loads of religions that preach, and loads of missionaries that preach fulltime for no financial compensation whatsoever. And the tetragrammaton isn't even pronounced as "jehovah". Please educate yourself and try to think outside of your cult with its sickening elitist "us against the world" attitude.
DutchCourageWhoohoo 1 month ago
@pgdnice151 BLABLA
victor3002006 1 month ago
@pgdnice151 - Just b/c JWs go door to door does not make them theologically correct, Jesus is not and never was Michael the Archangle, the bible never said 144k limit in heaven, JWs dismiss even the idea of a literal hell, the list goes on..... the falshood JWs spread door to door incredible, and they will not defend their position with the bible ever- always they use literature from WT never from the bible,-- where does our spiritual auth come from? The bible of coarse - then why not use it?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
his name is JEHOVAH (psalm 83:18). whether u know it or no u just helped in proclaiming Gods name. thx jehovah btw only draws people willing to learn the TRUTH by those HE choses to bear his name. when the end comes, dont come knocking at his door saying soory jehovah because all youll hear is the sound of those whom are just like you being destroyed. who knows maybe jehovah will open your eyes to see the truth. and also btw you are apostate so stop misleading those learning the truth SATAN
pgdnice151 1 month ago
@pgdnice151 DUDE WHY ARE U AT WAR WITH OTHERS. AT THE END OF THE NIGHT WE PRAY TO THE SAME GOD.
victor3002006 1 month ago
@victor3002006 Jw's reject Jesus Christ diety which according to the bible is God. So logically speaking how can that be?
knownamecris 1 month ago
@knownamecris how can jesus be god if he is the son of god. that doesn't make any sense4!
conkerdude891 1 month ago
and also you are so not right,as you claim they are fed and eat by what the WTS gives them,not all jw's JUST read what theyre given, not to say they read apostate and false religion stuff but i mean that they do there own research using secular sights and info. if you havent noticed the watchtower also uses secular sources. and why is that Jehovah's witnesses are prospering in all they do? why is christendom failing as time goes on. jw's cnt be stopped and wont be stop from proclaiming Gods name
pgdnice151 1 month ago
@pgdnice151 DUDE YOU ARE READING YOUR BIBLE CREATED BY 4 PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT READ OR UNDERSTAND THE OLD BIBLE. AND THE 5TH PERSON HAD ONLY 2 YEARS OF TRAINING. IN MY RELIGION YOU NEED A LIFETIME TO EVEN MAKE A SMALL CHANGE ON THE BIBLE.
victor3002006 1 month ago
@Multi5th do you know what the word Apostate means lol...smh
cbuddah13 1 month ago
@Multi5th please define the word cult...im confused?...oh and also insane...because i think I have a pretty good idea what they mean ..and I have studied with Witnesses for awhile and cant really attribute any of those adjectives so if you would be so kind as to please enlighten me
cbuddah13 1 month ago
Don't kill nothing and don't let nothing die!!!!!!!!!! By god let's just live forever in health peace jot and love!!!!
klevdav 1 month ago
Jehovah Witnesses are not a cult
TheLiveLaughLove9264 1 month ago
Basically it is pay and shut up ! Best biz ever ...
lutzchoco1 1 month ago
@lutzchoco1 They dont ask for money or pass around a "collection" lol plate...so when you say pay? what are you referring to?...as far as shut up lmao...They will answer any question for you directly from the Holy Scriptures, not the watchtower...this dude said he studied for 2months lol really?...but at the same time Darwins theory of evolution was based on 2 months of research and we know how accurate he was lol...smh
cbuddah13 1 month ago
@cbuddah13 Darwin is my hero ; open your eyes... why do you think you have a tail bone ? LOL
lutzchoco1 1 month ago
jws are not a cult, they are a religion, and what have they altered, what proficies have not come true?
chadsgirl007 1 month ago 7
@chadsgirl007
thax girl that means a whole lot
DancingGueen442015 1 month ago
@chadsgirl007 they have made prophesies about armageddon in the past but admit they were and even attempting to predict that was wrong and have not prophisied since
cbuddah13 1 month ago
@chadsgir l007 Oh yeah ? What about 1975 ? So funny some people think they have it figured out ........
lutzchoco1 1 month ago
@chadsgirl007 , i agree with this chadsgirl007 person. but u should know matt, not all jehovahs witnesses just study what the WTS gives them as you say in an question and answer way, in whioch they provide the answer. and how long did you study with jehovahs witnesses? i bet not long enough to know for yourself and prove to yourself that as a whole jehovah does in fact use jehovahs witnesses to carry his name and by means of jehovahs witnesses the Bible is understood properly.
pgdnice151 1 month ago
@pgdnice151 BLA BLA BLA S BLA U BLA C BLA K A NUT STOP HATING .. UR THE DEVIL
victor3002006 1 month ago
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V0nAnglesmith 1 month ago
@chadsgirl007 I'm sorry but your statement could not be any more ignorant. If you truly seek the truth, I urge you to study the Jehovahs Witness History! If your honest to yourself, you will see the truth.
knownamecris 1 month ago
@chadsgirl007
have fun: culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=3&id=21&Itemid=8
darkdaej 3 weeks ago
@chadsgirl007 --- what have they altered? what prophecies have NOT come true?
A person almost looks foolish even asking these questions - with little research you can find all the false predictions of Jesus's return, their beleive that Jesus is Michael the Archangle ....
Jws say Jesus came to earth invisible in 1914 Jws dont belive in Hell -- doesnt matter what the bible says -- only matters what WT organization says --- research it!!!!!!!!!!!!
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@mtavarez4561 Actually, The Bible does state in Matthew 24:9(b) "You will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name". Look around, almost nobody likes us because we spread the word. Mark 13:7-9. Some have not happened yet, but look at the ones that have. You are free to visit our media website for clarification to Mark 13:9. Lastly the first half of Matthew chapter 24 helps point out some more detail of what Jesus prophecised.
179trumpet 3 weeks ago
@179trumpet- when i became a Christian i was shunned by family and friends, not because of door to door but because of the new person l am in Christ Jesus. No doubt there is hatred toward the JWs for door to door that does not confirm that what you are preaching door to door is correct doctrine Jesus is not Michael the Archangle many many more inconsistencies...
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
@Multi5th what makes them a cult? and how does CTR factor in any of this?
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
! the WT is only used as a guide in learning the BIBLE... it is used to make things easier to understand for people like you.... so stop being a slanderer and shame the devil!
deci478 1 month ago
@deci478 ----" the WT is only used as a guide in learning the BIBLE... " this is NOT true because The WT does not teach the bible but rather the opinons of the governing body. this is not and organization from Jehovah God but rather from a mad man CTR- but of coarse you will call me an apostate for saying this rather than researching it - reaearching this may get you disfellowshipped that sounds like its from Jehovah God?
mtavarez4561 3 weeks ago
THIS SITE IS EDITED BY SATANISTS
donrivers88 1 month ago
@donrivers88 and his mouth was being touched by SATAN THE SLANDERER...
deci478 1 month ago
ONLY CHRISTIANITY AND POSSIBLE ISLAM ARE TRUE.
donrivers88 1 month ago
@donrivers88 WOT IS IT THA PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND??? ISLAM IS A FALES RELIGON!!
11and15productions 1 month ago
U RACIST HOMO!!!....Y GOTTA BE HATEN ONE RELIGION FOR HUH?..JW IS ABOUT JESUS AND GOD...THERE ARE OTHER RELIGIONS OUT THERE THAT DOES NOT TEACH ABOUT JESUS OR GOD...SO Y ONLY JEHOVAH WITNESES?..GOT SOMETHING AGAINST CHRISTIANITY?...ALL I SEE FROM UR VIDEOS ARE NEGATIVITY ABOUT JW..
Pinoybreed101 1 month ago
if you had went to meetings you'd know that the first half of the meeting they read the bible do some songs as a break(3 beginning middle ending of the meeting) then they do the watch tower and ask questions and you can do family studies and read the bible yourself
purple0wnzx 1 month ago 2
I study'd w/JWs off and on all my life. When i was a child, my JW aunt told me that i'll go to hell if i watch Harry Potter. But now she says that there is no Hell for humans. My uncle who is religious told me that jehovah isnt gods name when i was a child. and now he sings church songs that have the word "jehovah" in them. Im not sure what to think about any religion. But I do think that JWs are the nicest religious people i've ever met :)
Hello411sukr 1 month ago
I'm sorry but 2 months of Bible Study is not enough time to even start to give a true analysis of JW...it is certainly your lost that you discontinued your Study.
73smiley 1 month ago
How do you know your right? Who teached you?
MrBaassiecool 1 month ago
the major factor that inhibits real dialogue concerning JW beliefs is their private version of the scripture (the New World Translation) which supplies a faulty premise in their reasoning about the nature of God. It's really no different than when Joseph Smith decided the scriptures weren't reliable without his "special knowledge". Paul said in Galations, "If we or even an angel of god proclaim a "different" gospel, then let them be anathema. JW is a different gospel and so is Mormonism.
juliemillerfan 2 months ago
Good man You are a open minded person I wish I was 40 years ago. I have been so stupid to follow watch tower. Lie,Lie,and lies, My life in the trush. How can i help my family to get out? thank you for the information? i will share it.
vmcarrion 2 months ago
dynamite vid. the jw's come to my place every week and we have a talk. i will find out if they will address some of your issues or not. a refusal would look suspicious, would it not?
wp4866 2 months ago
There is no god. You are your own god and you are the only one to shape your future. When you die you stop exist, and everything you have lived for is fading away. But for you, it will only be black. You don't exist after death, there is no god that created the humankind. We will all see how earth was created through mars eventually, maybe not in out lifetime, but in a distant future.
Darlica1 2 months ago
@Darlica1 --- i can see that satan hs been most effective in training your thoughts, unfortunately, you , along with others will see that there is a a living God as the bible states, in a not so distant future..
mtavarez4561 2 months ago
@mtavarez4561 Satan? I did just say that I don't believe in some higher power. But actually you are part right, I'm a la-vey satanist, that simply means that I believe that I'am my own god.
Darlica1 1 month ago
According to the "New World Translation" Jesus was "a" God...not Jehovah, but "a" God. In Isaiah 43:10, in their own bible, Jehovah says, ""Before me there was no God formed and after me there continued to be none".... oops....
If Jesus is "a God" then he must be a false god....and if Jesus is a "false" god, then there's no gospel, no good news...and no "Savior"... because Jesus definitely claimed to be the Savior. Well done video...and much more could be said about JW false teachings.
juliemillerfan 2 months ago
@juliemillerfan i would just like to clear your confusion. in the new world translation i would like for you to look up psalms 83:18. it CLEARLY states "that the people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the most high over all the earth."
8917cutie89 2 months ago
@8917cutie89 That's fine... but you didn't really answer the question... if Jesus a false god or a true god?....
I appreciate the dialogue that we could have concerning this. I believe truth matters and I think you believe that also.... so, if the JW's are correct in their understanding of the nature of God, then I want to believe them. If not, and the bible teaches that Jesus is God, then I want that to be made clear also. Thanks for posting....
juliemillerfan 2 months ago
@juliemillerfan You're asking whether or not Jesus is a false god or a true god and the answer is neither. There is nothing false regarding him, yet even Jesus himself in John 17:3 stated that the only true God was the father. Not to mention the word "god" according to scripture was applied to many things. The NWT also doesn't hinder any real dialogue with a JW since their theology was pretty firm long before the NWT came about, they use the Bible. Now Mormonism may be another story.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica "For there has been a child born to us. There has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, "Mighty God", Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6 NWT).... this scripture concerns the coming of the Messiah, Jesus the Christ (anointed one).... This is just one of many scriptures that point to the fact that the coming Messiah (Jesus) would be called by these names, Mighty God being one....
juliemillerfan 1 month ago
@juliemillerfan The hebrew word which we translated as "God" or "gods" in the Hebrew Scriptures is the word Elohim. God (YHWH) is also called Eloah or El. As I initially pointed out while the word El is typically in reference to God its also used in reference to other gods, individuals and inanimate objects, ergo the word El itself doesn't imply deity. Citing Isaiah 9:6 doesn't negate my initial post since Elohim or God can refer to anything and anyone. Even scriptures makes that clear.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica If that's the case it sounds like you are rendering the word El, or Elohim only in matters that support your theology rather than reading the scripture for all it's worth, or in the manner intended. That reasoning would negate using the word "Jehovah" for a supreme deity also...so, saying that Satan is "god" of this world would be just as relevant as saying that Jehovah is "god" of this world. Also, Isaiah 6:9 emphasizes the term "mighty" God, not just "god" or "a god".
juliemillerfan 1 month ago
@juliemillerfan That's a mighty brazen presumption given the fact that you're essentially doing the exact same thing. Given the fact that you'll willfully ignore the meaning of El as well as its ancient usage if its in direct conflict with your theology. I can give you a number of scriptures that are in direct odds with your theology and you'll likely "not read the scripture for all its worth or in the manner intended".
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica So you're actually admitting that I'm doing the "exact same thing" as the JW's are doing, applying "my" theology to the reading of scripture. The vital difference is that I'm not being influenced by the rendering (or "rending") of scripture by one man, Charles Russell, who changed scripture to support his own distortions of historic Christianity, which has always held to the Deity of Christ. How did people ever get saved before Charles came along to straighten us all out?....
juliemillerfan 1 month ago
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mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@juliemillerfan I admitted nothing, I merely gave you a mirror to reflect on whenever you accuse others. There is a vital difference, one being that your theology is from centuries of erroneous teachings that deviated from accurate doctrine. Secondly this has absolutely nothing to do with Charles Russell as there exist those whom don't ascribe to his teachings and yet still hold the trinity to be false. And when you say deity of Christ what exactly do you mean? that Christ is now the Father?
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica Most heresies begin with a misunderstanding of the nature of God. Christians are Mono-Theists, not believing in "3" Gods, but understanding the bible to teach that God is a "triune-being"... One God revealed in 3 "distinct" persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is validated by ALL the New Testament writers, but Charles Russell made changes towards the NWT to disuade readers from that belief. It was Mr. Russel's misunderstanding of such that started the entire JW Movement.
juliemillerfan 1 month ago
@juliemillerfan Considering the fact that CT Russell died in 1916 and the NWT came in the 50’s I find it very unlikely Russell anything to do with its conception, let alone making changes towards it. So either you're very ignorant of the history or you're very dishonest. And like I initially stated, our discussion has nothing to do with Russell or his teachings. Secondly I'm going to infer that you don't understand the nature of God considering the fact that you ignored my last question.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica It really is irrelevant, whether CT Russell changed the NWT or not. The fact is, it was CHANGED! And you are no doubt reading it. The fact that the translators, did not even know greek or hebrew, and lied under oath is something you overlook as well. The Trinity , has been the biblical view, since the apostles. But there has always been heresies that spring forth, from those who have not had their eyes opened by God. It starts by denying Christs deity!
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 I KNOW its irrelevant, because he had nothing to do with it, period! Secondly I'm not even arguing whether or not the translators knew hebrew or greek. Heck I'm not even arguing in favor of JW doctrine period as you erroneously assume me to be a JW because I find the trinity intrinsically faulty. So the trinity has been a biblical views since the apostles? Highly unlikely. The apostles knew they were following the Messiah and not YHWH in the flesh or a secondary part of godhead.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica Oh, so you presume to know who the apostle thought they were following? Hmm...well, maybe go read the gospel of John? John surely thought Jesus was deity. So did Thomas, who called him God! Hmm...so did the pharisees, who picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God. How much more evidence do you need?
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 For a certainty I do not presume, unlike yourself. And I did read the gospels which is what lead me into rejecting the trinity doctrine as nonsensical. The Pharisees charged Christ with claiming equality with God, not that he was God incarnate, that's a vast difference. I also weight all evidence, not merely a few vague text stretched out of context.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica The pharisees said specifically, "You make yourself God". John 10:33. They didnt say, "equal to God" in that verse. As I said, Jesus never denied that He was God, and accepted worship, which only God should be worshipped. A few "vague" texts huh? LOL. Gimme a break.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 The passage naturally "you being a man make yourself a god." which is how an ancient Koine Greek speaker would phrase it. Interestingly Jesus follows with "Is it not written in your Law, "I (YAHWEH) said, 'you are gods'?" Jesus silences his jewish opposers with Yahweh's own words where he calls other men "gods". Secondly Jesus never denied being God because he never claimed to be God, he makes it fairly clear. Thirdly, when does Jesus accepts worship?
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica I should of thought you would try the "a" god argument. Thats not what the text says. Same with John 1:1 which has been refuted by all greek scholars worth mentioning. Jesus made it clear that he WASNT God? Hmm..where?
Worship? Well, God tells the angels to worship Jesus in Hebrews 1:6. He was worshipped in Matt. 14:33, 28:9, John 9:35-38. He was even worshipped as a baby. Matt. 2:2, 11. Have you read the bible?
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 My do I enjoy the trinitarian appeal to likely trinitarian scholars as if they are an infallible and unified voice when neither is the case. As in the case of Matt 2:2,11 you seem to conveniently forget that the Magi weren't even Jews, evidently they came to proskyneo worship a human infant not God, which was used by the ancient Greek speaking people to refer to "worship" of ANY higher authority. Its Hebrew equivalent shachah is seen throughout the OT in connection to others men.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica Your argumentation is week. You appeal to typical WT writings. You are skirting the issue. What difference would it make, if the wisemen were jews or not? Matthew mentioned them for a reason. They worshipped Christ. And Jesus said in Luke 4:8 to worship (proskuneo) God only. So dont run to your WT and give me the same tired arguments. I know you dont know the orginal language, you are parroting your organizations words.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66
"I know you dont know the orginal language, you are parroting your organizations words."
I guess you are obtuse. Suppose its hard for you to fantom the possibility that there exist individuals that reject the Trinity without inherently being affiliated with the WT. Going over this entire exchange and you were already told TWICE that this poster was not affiliated with the WT and yet despite it all you still parroting anti-jw rhetoric.
Samc023 1 month ago
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@Samc023 "Going over this entire exchange and you were already told TWICE that this poster was not affiliated with the WT and yet despite it all you still parroting anti-jw rhetoric." Maybe you didnt read my last post to that person? It went something like this:"Sorry for that. Its just you are using the same arguments the WT uses. But I will keep that in mind in responding to you in the future."
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Samc023 It is hard when you get multiple responses from someone all at the same time, to know what was said at what time. I get a response, and I answer that particular response, even though that person may have said 2 or 3 other responses afterward!
Haukman66 1 month ago
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@Haukman66
"I get a response, and I answer that particular response, even though that person may have said 2 or 3 other responses afterward!"
Riiight, but in all fairness you were told from jump mistermrsmonica's position and yet you still kept up with the "parroting wt" bit, but I digress. I'm starting to believe you spammed my replies from last time. Hope that's not the case.
Samc023 1 month ago
@Haukman66 I wasn't refuting scripture neither would I ever attempt to do so. However I do take Jesus for his word when he calls his Father the only true God. I also embrace the idea that Jesus existence is dependent on the Father and the Father's existence in dependent on no one 2 Cor 13. And while I have no qualms with "greek" experts I would place much more stock in one without any bias or agenda when translating,
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica When Jesus was saying, the Father is the only true God, he was distinguishing between the True God, and the False Gods. If you say that the Father is the "only true God", then you would have to admit, that Jesus is a "false" God would you not? After all, I think you would say, John 1:1 calls Jesus(the word) "a" god. So, in light of what you are saying about this passage, Jesus must be a "false" god?
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 And what viable proof do you have that Jesus would have to distinguish his Father from other false gods in a personal prayer? Jesus doesn't even include himself or the holy spirit but recognizes the Father as the only true God. What you are claiming is a stretch especially since throughout the NT YHWH is identified as Jesus' God AND Father.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica And who says Jesus needs to claim deity to the Father? I am sure the Father knows Jesus. As a matter of fact, God, the Father calls Jesus God in Hebrews 1. And I would appreciate that verse, in the NT that tells me "YHWH" is identified as Jesus' God and Father? (Not that I deny Jesus has a Father) I am saying, Jesus is YHWH, just as the Father is YHWH.
Haukman66 1 month ago
@Haukman66 See the mental gymnastics you have to do in order to justify the absurdity of this doctrine? Just look as how you rationalize each and every verse you're given, then you attempt to deflect by throwing in an entirely new scripture. You basically undermined John 17:3, so either Jesus is lying or he's misleading people. And yes, if Jesus has deity that would have been the appropriate time to claim it using "we" or "us", rather he says "you" while discounting himself and the HS.
mistersMsMonica 1 month ago
@mistersMsMonica "See the mental gymnastics you have to do in order to justify the absurdity of this doctrine? Just look as how you rationalize each and every verse you're given, then you attempt to deflect by throwing in an entirely new scripture." I addressed that verse, just because you wont accept my answer, doesnt mean I "deflected" it. That is the difference with me and you. I take ALL of scripture. Not just one or 2 verses. I am waiting on that verse from you.
Haukman66 1 month ago