Here's a question - Who's paying these people's legal fees? I know you want to paint a picture of a band of happy-hookers standing up to big government, in their fight for individual freedom. But if it turns out that the money to make that possible is coming from the industry who are going to benefit from the law change... that does maybe suggest they should be seen more as stooges, or possibly collaborators. Basically, we could do with a bit more context, and some more of the crucial facts.
@mickGPN Who's paying their legal fees? Probably the pimp/capitalist/libertarian/free market fundamentalist cabal that's trying to take over the world and destroy the values of fine upstanding citizens like yourself. I'm sure you suspected as much.
@YeOldeHeretic Lawyers? Is there more than one? Do any of them also work for clients in the sex-industry? (i.e. – indirect funding.) // Even if they don’t, in this particular case, let’s have a look at what we’ve got here. An academic. A dominatrix, which is the equivalent of a house-slave opposing the abolition of slavery. A woman who plans to run a brothel. // What this isn’t is a mass-movement of workers each paying $5 a month to fund these legal challenges. And that was my basic point.
if you did even a tiny bit of research, you would know that, but it is quite clear from your assumptions here in these comments, that you have done next to no research as to who all are behind the case & the case its self.
@mickGPN So now that you have some more of the "crucial facts" and a "bit more context" Mick, are you ready to reconsider a few things about your position? Or will you just brush that "crucial context" off as unimportant now that you can't work it into a concept of some evil, immoral, degenerate initiative? I should HOPE the workers and the industry have some "collaborators" in standing up to claim the rights to a safe workplace that anyone else in any other legal profession take for granted.
@SmilingSkeptic - I’ve made a video, S-collectives, explaining why so-called safe-working-practices for the sex-industry are just a sticking plaster for the sex-industry to hide behind. (Complete with stats from pro-decrim sources) Another, S-provider, asks if you would also support 'rights' for women who wanted to 'work' as punch-bags? // But for some reason, you won’t accept them as response videos, and want me to write it all out as a series of comments instead. Is there a logic behind that?
Hey, Mr Sceptic - what's happening with that video-response I sent you about sex-worker collectives? I hope I won't have to resort to the C-word (by which I mean, censorship, btw) That would be particularly disappointing, given that you're a man with both the word "skeptic" and "smiling" in his name...
@mickGPN You have your own channel as your very own platform from which to preach your ill-formed idiocy and nonsensical rhetorical contortions. I'm not censoring you. You didn't have my channel as your platform before, and you don't have it now. You've lost precisely nothing. ...Which is about as close to success as you'll get if your videos summate your argument. Cheers.
@SmilingSkeptic - In other words, you want to promote your version of reality, in a nice safe bubble, where you don't allow any criticism of what you say. Fair enough - you've made that clear now for anyone listening to your channel.
Excellent video very informational, so it's legal here in Canada, but illegal to have a place to do it? Do we have a professional porn industry like in the U.S?
I personally think prostitution is degrading, but wouldn't go so far to call it immoral. As long as no harm inflicted on the individuals, It needs to be professional, safe, clean, and accountable in case problems arise. Just like any other business expectations.
Have no clue about the women's situation, very sad :(
@architect333 We do have a porn industry here in Canada. It's nothing like the US industry in terms of volume. It's a bit fractured, with the major centres (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal) being the largest points of activity, with Montreal being the most active. That industry has its own concerns as well, the uppermost being online privacy. A guesstimate puts the Canadian porn market at about $300 million of the $57 billion worldwide porn industry, so it's relatively small.
I'd heard some of what you presented here, but hadn't looked too deeply in to it. Thanks for passing along so much detail in such a (relatively) short video.
@StubbornProgrammer Thanks for watching it. There's certainly a lot to this case, but the issue itself is fairly simple when you look at the big picture.
Man, you guys don't know how lucky you are. Down here our douche bag ultra conservatives don't even recognize a person's right to bodily control until it's threatened by affordable healthcare.
I am going to assume you guys have mines up there. Has the conservative right mounted campaigns against mine owners giving out masks or having doctors on staff to assess the health of the workers? Every time you said Catholic Civil Rights League I had to laugh. Talk about your conflict of terminology. We should take all the religious people and ship them .. oh, never mind.
@prodigyat9 Yep, I was at a vigil service for missing and killed sex workers where those in the trade and retired from it and their advocates talked about their work and their experiences. They talked about fighting for protection from discrimination, the right to safety and security... things workers - and every other human being - take for granted... but sex workers have to fight for them. It struck me that this wasn't right. I started questioning why. The answers I found didn't sit well.
Irony alert: the "living off the avails" section was put into place because of fears of "white slavery". Yet Steven Dubner illustrated quite convincingly in the first chapter of "Superfreakonomics" that prostitutes who had a pimp were actually safer and earned more money.
I hope these draconian backward and dangerous victorian laws are finally abolished.
Sex workers are at risk anyway, no laws are gonna change that, in Holland where its all fully legal nothing has changed, in fact organized crime and forced prostitution has grown b/c of it.
@johnycannuk Im not lying at all, you can google for sextrafficking in the Netherlands or something similar, % as high as 70%, its a huge problem here. /watch?v=xwTYzD8cx4o
@Tuckercrew "Sex workers are at risk anyway, no laws are gonna change that," and then you conflate it with sex trafficking. That's probably the most dishonest comment on this video. NO worker should ever have to break the law in order to take reasonable steps to ensure their safety. What's more, this case has nothing to do with sex trafficking. If you buy a new pair of safety glasses, will that prevent drowning deaths? Thanks for trying, though. Good day.
@SmilingSkeptic LOL, wake the fuck up, most sextrafficking is in prostitution, since legalisation in Holland (11 years) the majprity of women in that bussines are still forced by pimps and/or sextrafficked, only a small minority benefits from legalisation. Those are the FACTS and REALITY. I can predict what happens if Cana decriminalizes, and it wont look good.
@Tuckercrew Ahh yes, "wake the fuck up", the familiar refrain of those Nuke drones who are really can't back up what they're saying. Thanks for playing.
@Tuckercrew - Aye, wake up - that's right. Decrim is exactly the kind of Free-Market Fundamentalism that ruined the financial system. S.S. says in this vid that it's about Decrim AND Control - but if you look at the facts for NZ (see my response video) there are virtually no controls on how the sex-industry operates. And, guess what, no help for people wanting to leave the sex-industry either. But then why should there be, if society has agreed that "sex-work" is seen as "just another job"?
@mickGPN one thing Ive learnt about the situation in Holland is that the sex industry (prostitution) cant be controlled when decrimmed or legal, even if you out regulations in place, so its all a very naive idea many people have that it will get better for prostitutes, but they dont wanna hear cold hard facts, as we've found out.
@Tuckercrew - Yeah, I thought it was v significant when SS casually linked the idea of "sex work" being Decriminalised and Controlled - as if the two naturally went together. In fact, decrim is Free-Market Fundamentalism for the human body - so, not surprisingly, the whole situation is out of control. Like you say, naive - but also dangerous, because so many people fall for this simplistic nonsense about individual freedom, which totally ignores the fact that we live in a capitalist SOCIETY :-)
decriminalzation is not ment to stop all forms of undesirable activity. for instance, you can legally buy ciggaretts. but there is still a market place for illegal ones thats a huge problem. there are also a large number of underaged kids smoking. legalization simply cuts down on resources spent on limiting, otherwise lawabiding, citizens from exercising their right to do what they want with their body. taxing it increases govn't revenue and increases the govnts access
to more resources to keep cigarettes selling and use out of the hands of people they dont want participating in the market place. the point of legalization is to provide participants with a legal, safe route. the governement taxes sales and uses the funds toward cracking down illegal sales and exposure to kids. it also goes to a health care system that will have to deal with smokers at some point. it goes into education and prevention. yes it will get better
for prostitutes. cause now that its legal these women (and johns) have law enforcement behind them for protection and a legal system open to help them settle disputes. those who are currently in exploitive situation can get get help or leave (if they want ) and those who truely want to presue sex work as a career has fewer barriers. you are wrong when you claim help. there are women who legally get married to abusive men. we dont make marriage illegal to protect them. we do provide
access to law enforcement and social serivces. not everyone no need the help will take it. but that is THEIR choice. its available and easily accessible. not every woman in the sex trade need you to be their advocate telling them what they should and shoudnt do with their own bodies. the ones that cant speak for themselves can better be helped wen you remove barriers of entry AND exit. if there are women willing to legally work there is no need for trafficers to recruite, restrain, and falsely
enslave someone who does not want to be a prostitute. doing so would be kidnapping and no one is trying to make kidnapping legal. make sex work legal and you will see more people willing to do it. and more people who dont want to do it have an easier time getting out. instead of harassing 2 concenting adults, law enforcements can have more money and resources protecting those who are not concenting or cant concent, which is a job they would have had to do anyways.
Thank you and thanks for laying out the legal arguments--this is so good and coming from you I might actually cry I'm so proud you uploaded this on your channel. Around youtube, the arguments in the courts are similar to ones I've heard from people like Mickgpn and a few others. <3 x 1,000,000
@xxxild Oh no, thank YOU. Your channel is an inspiration. I represent workers in the protection of their rights regularly. When I went to a winter candle-light vigil for sex workers, I heard sex workers talking about this struggle, and I realized that these are the same rights every other worker in Canada have & take for granted, so why is it okay to deny those rights to sex workers? I wanted to make this video ever since, but, well, "other things" got in the way. There'll be more on this topic.
@SmilingSkeptic - This idea that people in the sex-industry would be safe if only they could get their "workers' rights" is a myth. The sex-industry is inherently dangerous, and a few sticking-plaster "remedies" isn't going to change that. This perspective is outlined - with statistic from Pro-Decrim sources - in the reply video which I am sending you. I hope you will accept it, as my contribution to a more informed debate...
@xxxild - Well, if only SS would accept my response video, you might see that the so-called regulation available via decrim is a myth. Or you could see it on my site - "S-worker Collectives". You could even leave comments, if you like :-) In fact, my whole channel is basically explaining how the simplistic idea that we can "admit it's happening and make it safe" is abused by the sex-industry to harm even more people. It's really not such a good idea... in the real world, where capitalism exists
@mickGPN Suuuure, Mick. First of all your "regulation available via decrim is a myth" is just a wacko notion that workers wouldn't be able to stay outta jail and report violent crime, right? Right. Thanks but no thanks. I've had enough crazy to last me for awhile.
@xxxild - Actually, no :-) What I'm saying is that the "workers-rights" agenda turn out to be about supplying "sticking plasters" which the sex-industry can hide behind while it continues to mess-up people's lives You really should watch that vid - it's got all sorts of quotes from pro-decrim sources in the low-bar, which illustrate just what a delusion the idea of a "regulated sex industry" is On the other hand, who am I to disturb your cosy pre-conceptions? All the best, to you and yrs - Mick
@mickGPN Mick, screw you. You just accused sex workers of having the agenda of messing up people's lives. You should piss off. Who are you to what? Disturb my what? Do you actually take five seconds to think before you type?
@xxxild - In my video I accuse a small minority of Paid-Sex-Positive sex-workers of colluding with the industry - consciously, or unconsciously. Is that forbidden? Are you saying all sex-workers are beyond reproach? Still, if you don't want to engage with the arguments I make - arguments which are backed up by date from pro-decrim sources, as I say - that's your choice.
@mickGPN Colluding with the industry? Is there a conspiracy I'm unaware of here? Who's in charge of this industry they're colluding with? What are their plans. Tune in next week, same bat time, same bat channel.
no one is under the false idea that decrim will make sex-industry safe. the goal is to make it SAFER. taxi drivers, real estate workers, cable installers all face simular physical dangers with their exposure to customers and no one here is talking about making these occupations illegal.
@Amet slavery of any type should not be tolerated but what has this to do with the content of this video outlining the battle for sex workers rights in Canada.
@AmetReloads Wait, isn't it the gov't position that these women willingly do prostitution and thus accept the risks and can leave at any time? Its their entire argument that the laws are (and should remain) harsh and draconian to prevent women from CHOOSING to enter an "immoral" trade such as prostitution.
How can any of that be deemed "slavery"? The core of the argument against the ruling is hat women are voluntarily choosing this...
Personally I think prostitution is both immoral and also results in a loss of dignity, however I respect other people's autonomy and the fact that I have no right to force my morality over them so I support sex workers rights, just not what they do.
The whole debate centers around whether a person has the right over his or her own body to do with it what he or she wants..... or whether the state control your body.
@JegHarEnLillePik For Canadians, that debate has already been decided. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms (section 7) guarantees the right to bodily control. Interestingly, since prostitution itself is legal, that's not even been put forward by either side in the case, except in where the challengers have used the same section to argue for the right to safety and security of the person.
Wait, so Sex Workers should be stigmatized because religious view the profession as immoral... okay... does that mean Bartenders should suddenly have no rights or protections under the law? They are, after all, there to prevent people from being of "sober mind".
I considering being a toxic megalomaniacal fascist cunt to be immoral, so let's just outlaw being Stephen Harper.
I'm surprised. I'm FROM Canada and this hasn't made any headlines that I'm aware of.
To be quite honest, I think the objections from Agarwal (and from the other side in general) are pretty flimsy. The government should not attempt to dissuade people from becoming prostitutes any more than they should dissuade people from becoming taxi drivers. Prostitutes are humans too and should therefore deserve the same rights as everyone else - including the right to a safe working environment.
@TruthofthePeople It really is surprising. There's lots of coverage out there, The Star, the National Post, even local papers across Canada were giving almost daily coverage because the Ontario decision will have a national impact, but it was so buried in the papers nobody was talking about it.
I dont agree with prostitution myself, in the conventional sense (I dont mind specialty stuff like dominatrices and such, but the street culture of prostitution is harmful and disgusting), but legalizing this work would go a long way toward Cleaning Up this profession, allowing women and men to practice this profession safely.
Also, prostitutes confronted by police SHOULD NOT be required to give an account for themselves so long as accounting for prostitution can automatically criminalize them.
Being forced to confess on the spot to an act which is a crime is a violation of our rights. No person is required to speak when doing so would criminalize them. It's the foundation of the Right To Remain Silent.
@Etimos I think I neglected to mention that this requirement to "give a satisfactory report of oneself" was later struck out as exactly that - contrary to the Charter protection against self-incrimination. I should put an annotation in there. I did have it in the script, I must have edited it out at some point.
Rather, legalizing the activities related to this work, at least insofar as common sense precautions, would go a long way.
Many jobs may seem unclean or undesirable, but our government does not have the right to intentionally endanger its citizens or restrict their ability to protect themselves from work hazards, regardless of the kind of work they do (insofar as the activity itself is legal).
As for the legality of prostitution itself, our constitution guarantees our personal bodily rights.
"It's gross" or "It's not what I would do" are not valid arguments for the legal restriction of an individual's bodily rights.
As a Canadian Citizen, I am guaranteed the right to have sex with any person I like under the standard conditions of mutual safety and consent (legal age, public decency, etc). I am also allowed to get tattoos, piercings, eat pork, drink alcohol, etc.
There is no legal ground to condemn having consensual sex for any reason, for pleasure, reproduction, or even profit.
@Etimos of course there are legal grounds for not allowing u to exploit women in sex slavery conditions, nor fuelsex trafficking, and instead protect women from psychological/physical harm.
the criminal isnt the prostitutes, is you.
prostitution is a crime against women. abolitionism will inevitable to return to Canada as it returned in Europe, cause societies care more for harm reduction policies/protecting women, than what liberturds ,as you, consider his sexual right for a "cumdumbster"..
@AmetReloads So you support the Prime Minister of a country having power over courts based on his own personal beliefs...interesting.
Criticising my "iq" when you can barely compose a sentence totally made my day...I miss you,. you are just so funny. ^_^
As for my ejaculation, and its prioritization, I have my hand for that, actually. This is actually about protecting women, something you care little about, you would rather tell them what they can do with their own bodies....Amet knows best?
@AmetReloads ... I could come up with an entire argument against the stupidity you just spouted, like how legalizing prostitution would have no effect on the legality of slavery, or the fact that professional prostitutes are thus by choice, because they enjoy the work or the benefits thereof, such as dominatrices and other specialists, but frankly, you're not worth the effort.
You couldnt even spell Cum Dumpster right in your idiotic little straw-man.
@Etimos AmetReloads won't be back. We don't need that kind of garbage here. I'm all for discussing other points of view, but that's not what that was.
Surprise surprise that religious organizations are against rights for prostitutes. Douche bags, the lot of them. I hope that the Sex Workers get their victory. It really would be a step in the right direction for society as a whole. There is nothing "immoral" about selling or buying sex. Oldest trade known to man. And it's sex. There is nothing immoral about sex. Only the religious put sex in that light.
This seems like another example where the Judges of the Supreme court and the People in Government disagree. The government seems to think that if one engages in an activity that they feel is wrong then that person derserves to suffer, even if measures can be put in place to alleviate that suffering. I mean, just look at the InSite issue.
"no seriously" just fuck off with your anti-Canadian BS
sweiland75 1 month ago
@sweiland75 Sorry, I don't follow.
SmilingSkeptic 1 month ago
@MrLordLaws Thank you.
SmilingSkeptic 6 months ago
Awesome vid :)
and some trivia - Alan Young teaches at Osgoode Hall Law School - the same school where the infamous "slutwalk" cop made his ill-conceived comments!
FeministWhore 6 months ago
Here's a question - Who's paying these people's legal fees? I know you want to paint a picture of a band of happy-hookers standing up to big government, in their fight for individual freedom. But if it turns out that the money to make that possible is coming from the industry who are going to benefit from the law change... that does maybe suggest they should be seen more as stooges, or possibly collaborators. Basically, we could do with a bit more context, and some more of the crucial facts.
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN Who's paying their legal fees? Probably the pimp/capitalist/libertarian/free market fundamentalist cabal that's trying to take over the world and destroy the values of fine upstanding citizens like yourself. I'm sure you suspected as much.
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
@iamcuriousblue - In other words... you don't know.
mickGPN 6 months ago
@mickGPN small amount from legal aid, small amount of donations but the majority is pro-bono from the lawyers.
YeOldeHeretic 6 months ago
@YeOldeHeretic Lawyers? Is there more than one? Do any of them also work for clients in the sex-industry? (i.e. – indirect funding.) // Even if they don’t, in this particular case, let’s have a look at what we’ve got here. An academic. A dominatrix, which is the equivalent of a house-slave opposing the abolition of slavery. A woman who plans to run a brothel. // What this isn’t is a mass-movement of workers each paying $5 a month to fund these legal challenges. And that was my basic point.
mickGPN 6 months ago
@mickGPN (2) - As for the Christian zealots – not one of them put forward an anti-capitalist perspective, which is why they lost.
mickGPN 6 months ago
@mickGPN yes lawyers.
if you did even a tiny bit of research, you would know that, but it is quite clear from your assumptions here in these comments, that you have done next to no research as to who all are behind the case & the case its self.
~aymi
YeOldeHeretic 6 months ago
@mickGPN So now that you have some more of the "crucial facts" and a "bit more context" Mick, are you ready to reconsider a few things about your position? Or will you just brush that "crucial context" off as unimportant now that you can't work it into a concept of some evil, immoral, degenerate initiative? I should HOPE the workers and the industry have some "collaborators" in standing up to claim the rights to a safe workplace that anyone else in any other legal profession take for granted.
SmilingSkeptic 6 months ago
@SmilingSkeptic - I’ve made a video, S-collectives, explaining why so-called safe-working-practices for the sex-industry are just a sticking plaster for the sex-industry to hide behind. (Complete with stats from pro-decrim sources) Another, S-provider, asks if you would also support 'rights' for women who wanted to 'work' as punch-bags? // But for some reason, you won’t accept them as response videos, and want me to write it all out as a series of comments instead. Is there a logic behind that?
mickGPN 6 months ago
Meanwhile in the united states we have presidential candidates signing petitions to ban all forms of pornography. AUuuggghhh...
JoesephKatana 7 months ago
Hey, Mr Sceptic - what's happening with that video-response I sent you about sex-worker collectives? I hope I won't have to resort to the C-word (by which I mean, censorship, btw) That would be particularly disappointing, given that you're a man with both the word "skeptic" and "smiling" in his name...
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN You have your own channel as your very own platform from which to preach your ill-formed idiocy and nonsensical rhetorical contortions. I'm not censoring you. You didn't have my channel as your platform before, and you don't have it now. You've lost precisely nothing. ...Which is about as close to success as you'll get if your videos summate your argument. Cheers.
SmilingSkeptic 6 months ago
@SmilingSkeptic - In other words, you want to promote your version of reality, in a nice safe bubble, where you don't allow any criticism of what you say. Fair enough - you've made that clear now for anyone listening to your channel.
mickGPN 6 months ago
@mickGPN You have a funny way of looking at the world. You're still posting here aren't you? Or do you want to push it so that is jeopardized?
SmilingSkeptic 6 months ago
Excellent video very informational, so it's legal here in Canada, but illegal to have a place to do it? Do we have a professional porn industry like in the U.S?
I personally think prostitution is degrading, but wouldn't go so far to call it immoral. As long as no harm inflicted on the individuals, It needs to be professional, safe, clean, and accountable in case problems arise. Just like any other business expectations.
Have no clue about the women's situation, very sad :(
architect333 7 months ago
@architect333 We do have a porn industry here in Canada. It's nothing like the US industry in terms of volume. It's a bit fractured, with the major centres (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal) being the largest points of activity, with Montreal being the most active. That industry has its own concerns as well, the uppermost being online privacy. A guesstimate puts the Canadian porn market at about $300 million of the $57 billion worldwide porn industry, so it's relatively small.
SmilingSkeptic 6 months ago
Man, that is such a brilliant and beautiful piece of work. Thanks you. Thumbs up and fav'd, and featured.
RichardRoy2 7 months ago
@RichardRoy2 Thank you.
SmilingSkeptic 6 months ago
It's things like this that make me happy to live in New Zealand.Good video and i hope they get the safety etc that they need
TheDavid946 7 months ago
Comment removed
TheDavid946 7 months ago
@MsPureFiction007 :)
YeOldeHeretic 7 months ago
Smilin', what can I say? What an amazing video! Thank you so much for taking the time to make it! :)
Laurel
YeOldeHeretic 7 months ago
@YeOldeHeretic Thank you, I'm glad you liked it. I plan to make more videos on the subject, and I have two ideas in the works right now.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
@SmilingSkeptic I look forward to seeing them! :)
Laurel
YeOldeHeretic 7 months ago
I'd heard some of what you presented here, but hadn't looked too deeply in to it. Thanks for passing along so much detail in such a (relatively) short video.
StubbornProgrammer 7 months ago
@StubbornProgrammer Thanks for watching it. There's certainly a lot to this case, but the issue itself is fairly simple when you look at the big picture.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
Man, you guys don't know how lucky you are. Down here our douche bag ultra conservatives don't even recognize a person's right to bodily control until it's threatened by affordable healthcare.
Jermbot15 7 months ago
Science logic and reason! That's all that is needed.
Zierota 7 months ago
I am going to assume you guys have mines up there. Has the conservative right mounted campaigns against mine owners giving out masks or having doctors on staff to assess the health of the workers? Every time you said Catholic Civil Rights League I had to laugh. Talk about your conflict of terminology. We should take all the religious people and ship them .. oh, never mind.
prodigyat9 7 months ago
@prodigyat9 Yep, I was at a vigil service for missing and killed sex workers where those in the trade and retired from it and their advocates talked about their work and their experiences. They talked about fighting for protection from discrimination, the right to safety and security... things workers - and every other human being - take for granted... but sex workers have to fight for them. It struck me that this wasn't right. I started questioning why. The answers I found didn't sit well.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
Excellently done video, sir. =)
BobChaos23 7 months ago
Irony alert: the "living off the avails" section was put into place because of fears of "white slavery". Yet Steven Dubner illustrated quite convincingly in the first chapter of "Superfreakonomics" that prostitutes who had a pimp were actually safer and earned more money.
I hope these draconian backward and dangerous victorian laws are finally abolished.
johnycannuk 7 months ago
Sex workers are at risk anyway, no laws are gonna change that, in Holland where its all fully legal nothing has changed, in fact organized crime and forced prostitution has grown b/c of it.
Tuckercrew 7 months ago
@Tuckercrew Now you're just lying...provide a link. Your statement contradicts literally decades of studies.
johnycannuk 7 months ago 2
@johnycannuk Im not lying at all, you can google for sextrafficking in the Netherlands or something similar, % as high as 70%, its a huge problem here. /watch?v=xwTYzD8cx4o
Tuckercrew 7 months ago
@Tuckercrew "Sex workers are at risk anyway, no laws are gonna change that," and then you conflate it with sex trafficking. That's probably the most dishonest comment on this video. NO worker should ever have to break the law in order to take reasonable steps to ensure their safety. What's more, this case has nothing to do with sex trafficking. If you buy a new pair of safety glasses, will that prevent drowning deaths? Thanks for trying, though. Good day.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
@SmilingSkeptic LOL, wake the fuck up, most sextrafficking is in prostitution, since legalisation in Holland (11 years) the majprity of women in that bussines are still forced by pimps and/or sextrafficked, only a small minority benefits from legalisation. Those are the FACTS and REALITY. I can predict what happens if Cana decriminalizes, and it wont look good.
Tuckercrew 7 months ago
@Tuckercrew Ahh yes, "wake the fuck up", the familiar refrain of those Nuke drones who are really can't back up what they're saying. Thanks for playing.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
@Tuckercrew - Aye, wake up - that's right. Decrim is exactly the kind of Free-Market Fundamentalism that ruined the financial system. S.S. says in this vid that it's about Decrim AND Control - but if you look at the facts for NZ (see my response video) there are virtually no controls on how the sex-industry operates. And, guess what, no help for people wanting to leave the sex-industry either. But then why should there be, if society has agreed that "sex-work" is seen as "just another job"?
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN one thing Ive learnt about the situation in Holland is that the sex industry (prostitution) cant be controlled when decrimmed or legal, even if you out regulations in place, so its all a very naive idea many people have that it will get better for prostitutes, but they dont wanna hear cold hard facts, as we've found out.
Tuckercrew 7 months ago
@Tuckercrew - Yeah, I thought it was v significant when SS casually linked the idea of "sex work" being Decriminalised and Controlled - as if the two naturally went together. In fact, decrim is Free-Market Fundamentalism for the human body - so, not surprisingly, the whole situation is out of control. Like you say, naive - but also dangerous, because so many people fall for this simplistic nonsense about individual freedom, which totally ignores the fact that we live in a capitalist SOCIETY :-)
mickGPN 7 months ago
@Tuckercrew
decriminalzation is not ment to stop all forms of undesirable activity. for instance, you can legally buy ciggaretts. but there is still a market place for illegal ones thats a huge problem. there are also a large number of underaged kids smoking. legalization simply cuts down on resources spent on limiting, otherwise lawabiding, citizens from exercising their right to do what they want with their body. taxing it increases govn't revenue and increases the govnts access
Bigpussycat5 3 months ago
to more resources to keep cigarettes selling and use out of the hands of people they dont want participating in the market place. the point of legalization is to provide participants with a legal, safe route. the governement taxes sales and uses the funds toward cracking down illegal sales and exposure to kids. it also goes to a health care system that will have to deal with smokers at some point. it goes into education and prevention. yes it will get better
Bigpussycat5 3 months ago
for prostitutes. cause now that its legal these women (and johns) have law enforcement behind them for protection and a legal system open to help them settle disputes. those who are currently in exploitive situation can get get help or leave (if they want ) and those who truely want to presue sex work as a career has fewer barriers. you are wrong when you claim help. there are women who legally get married to abusive men. we dont make marriage illegal to protect them. we do provide
Bigpussycat5 3 months ago
access to law enforcement and social serivces. not everyone no need the help will take it. but that is THEIR choice. its available and easily accessible. not every woman in the sex trade need you to be their advocate telling them what they should and shoudnt do with their own bodies. the ones that cant speak for themselves can better be helped wen you remove barriers of entry AND exit. if there are women willing to legally work there is no need for trafficers to recruite, restrain, and falsely
Bigpussycat5 3 months ago
enslave someone who does not want to be a prostitute. doing so would be kidnapping and no one is trying to make kidnapping legal. make sex work legal and you will see more people willing to do it. and more people who dont want to do it have an easier time getting out. instead of harassing 2 concenting adults, law enforcements can have more money and resources protecting those who are not concenting or cant concent, which is a job they would have had to do anyways.
Bigpussycat5 3 months ago
@MsPureFiction007 snif...
xxxild 7 months ago
Thank you and thanks for laying out the legal arguments--this is so good and coming from you I might actually cry I'm so proud you uploaded this on your channel. Around youtube, the arguments in the courts are similar to ones I've heard from people like Mickgpn and a few others. <3 x 1,000,000
xxxild 7 months ago
@xxxild Oh no, thank YOU. Your channel is an inspiration. I represent workers in the protection of their rights regularly. When I went to a winter candle-light vigil for sex workers, I heard sex workers talking about this struggle, and I realized that these are the same rights every other worker in Canada have & take for granted, so why is it okay to deny those rights to sex workers? I wanted to make this video ever since, but, well, "other things" got in the way. There'll be more on this topic.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
@SmilingSkeptic - This idea that people in the sex-industry would be safe if only they could get their "workers' rights" is a myth. The sex-industry is inherently dangerous, and a few sticking-plaster "remedies" isn't going to change that. This perspective is outlined - with statistic from Pro-Decrim sources - in the reply video which I am sending you. I hope you will accept it, as my contribution to a more informed debate...
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN Thanks for doing your part to keep things the way they are, Mick. Really dangerous and really illegal.
xxxild 7 months ago
@xxxild - Well, if only SS would accept my response video, you might see that the so-called regulation available via decrim is a myth. Or you could see it on my site - "S-worker Collectives". You could even leave comments, if you like :-) In fact, my whole channel is basically explaining how the simplistic idea that we can "admit it's happening and make it safe" is abused by the sex-industry to harm even more people. It's really not such a good idea... in the real world, where capitalism exists
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN Suuuure, Mick. First of all your "regulation available via decrim is a myth" is just a wacko notion that workers wouldn't be able to stay outta jail and report violent crime, right? Right. Thanks but no thanks. I've had enough crazy to last me for awhile.
xxxild 7 months ago
@xxxild - Actually, no :-) What I'm saying is that the "workers-rights" agenda turn out to be about supplying "sticking plasters" which the sex-industry can hide behind while it continues to mess-up people's lives You really should watch that vid - it's got all sorts of quotes from pro-decrim sources in the low-bar, which illustrate just what a delusion the idea of a "regulated sex industry" is On the other hand, who am I to disturb your cosy pre-conceptions? All the best, to you and yrs - Mick
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN Mick, screw you. You just accused sex workers of having the agenda of messing up people's lives. You should piss off. Who are you to what? Disturb my what? Do you actually take five seconds to think before you type?
xxxild 7 months ago
@xxxild - In my video I accuse a small minority of Paid-Sex-Positive sex-workers of colluding with the industry - consciously, or unconsciously. Is that forbidden? Are you saying all sex-workers are beyond reproach? Still, if you don't want to engage with the arguments I make - arguments which are backed up by date from pro-decrim sources, as I say - that's your choice.
mickGPN 7 months ago
@mickGPN Colluding with the industry? Is there a conspiracy I'm unaware of here? Who's in charge of this industry they're colluding with? What are their plans. Tune in next week, same bat time, same bat channel.
xxxild 7 months ago
@mickGPN
no one is under the false idea that decrim will make sex-industry safe. the goal is to make it SAFER. taxi drivers, real estate workers, cable installers all face simular physical dangers with their exposure to customers and no one here is talking about making these occupations illegal.
Bigpussycat5 3 months ago
@xxxild - Hey, xxxild, I saw your vid on Elevatorgate, and guess what - I agreed with every word of it! Cheers - Mick.
mickGPN 7 months ago
its only inevitable.
sex slavery cant be tolerated.
AmetReloads 7 months ago
@Amet slavery of any type should not be tolerated but what has this to do with the content of this video outlining the battle for sex workers rights in Canada.
xxxild 7 months ago
@AmetReloads Wait, isn't it the gov't position that these women willingly do prostitution and thus accept the risks and can leave at any time? Its their entire argument that the laws are (and should remain) harsh and draconian to prevent women from CHOOSING to enter an "immoral" trade such as prostitution.
How can any of that be deemed "slavery"? The core of the argument against the ruling is hat women are voluntarily choosing this...
How about, its non of the gov't business ....
johnycannuk 7 months ago
@johnycannuk If you are expecting anything Amet says to make sense, prepare to be profoundly disappointed...LOL
BobChaos23 7 months ago
@BobChaos23 Yeah..I did a little checking and he's just a troll channel. Live and learn
johnycannuk 7 months ago
Great video, we should put all Christian Conservatives and ship them south.
AgentGhost 7 months ago
@AgentGhost
Great idea and we "in the south" can ship all our self righteous cunts up north.
prodigyat9 7 months ago
@prodigyat9
Thank you I look forward to our exchange, nice doing business with you sir.
AgentGhost 7 months ago
Personally I think prostitution is both immoral and also results in a loss of dignity, however I respect other people's autonomy and the fact that I have no right to force my morality over them so I support sex workers rights, just not what they do.
MrWafflesMonster 7 months ago
@MrWafflesMonster Wow, I was about to pounce on you until I read your whole comment. That is an extremely respectable position.
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago
The whole debate centers around whether a person has the right over his or her own body to do with it what he or she wants..... or whether the state control your body.
JegHarEnLillePik 7 months ago
@JegHarEnLillePik For Canadians, that debate has already been decided. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms (section 7) guarantees the right to bodily control. Interestingly, since prostitution itself is legal, that's not even been put forward by either side in the case, except in where the challengers have used the same section to argue for the right to safety and security of the person.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
right... good christians who let prostitutes die because they deem them immoral :S
This is sick =(
KaptajnKaffe 7 months ago
Wait, so Sex Workers should be stigmatized because religious view the profession as immoral... okay... does that mean Bartenders should suddenly have no rights or protections under the law? They are, after all, there to prevent people from being of "sober mind".
I considering being a toxic megalomaniacal fascist cunt to be immoral, so let's just outlaw being Stephen Harper.
Consistency... it's all I ask for!
williamcardno 7 months ago
@williamcardno Make being Stephen Harper a status crime. Works for me.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
@williamcardno Harper is nothing if not inconsistent.
BobChaos23 7 months ago
I'm surprised. I'm FROM Canada and this hasn't made any headlines that I'm aware of.
To be quite honest, I think the objections from Agarwal (and from the other side in general) are pretty flimsy. The government should not attempt to dissuade people from becoming prostitutes any more than they should dissuade people from becoming taxi drivers. Prostitutes are humans too and should therefore deserve the same rights as everyone else - including the right to a safe working environment.
TruthofthePeople 7 months ago
@TruthofthePeople It really is surprising. There's lots of coverage out there, The Star, the National Post, even local papers across Canada were giving almost daily coverage because the Ontario decision will have a national impact, but it was so buried in the papers nobody was talking about it.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
I dont agree with prostitution myself, in the conventional sense (I dont mind specialty stuff like dominatrices and such, but the street culture of prostitution is harmful and disgusting), but legalizing this work would go a long way toward Cleaning Up this profession, allowing women and men to practice this profession safely.
Also, prostitutes confronted by police SHOULD NOT be required to give an account for themselves so long as accounting for prostitution can automatically criminalize them.
Etimos 7 months ago
Being forced to confess on the spot to an act which is a crime is a violation of our rights. No person is required to speak when doing so would criminalize them. It's the foundation of the Right To Remain Silent.
Etimos 7 months ago
@Etimos I think I neglected to mention that this requirement to "give a satisfactory report of oneself" was later struck out as exactly that - contrary to the Charter protection against self-incrimination. I should put an annotation in there. I did have it in the script, I must have edited it out at some point.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
Rather, legalizing the activities related to this work, at least insofar as common sense precautions, would go a long way.
Many jobs may seem unclean or undesirable, but our government does not have the right to intentionally endanger its citizens or restrict their ability to protect themselves from work hazards, regardless of the kind of work they do (insofar as the activity itself is legal).
As for the legality of prostitution itself, our constitution guarantees our personal bodily rights.
Etimos 7 months ago
"It's gross" or "It's not what I would do" are not valid arguments for the legal restriction of an individual's bodily rights.
As a Canadian Citizen, I am guaranteed the right to have sex with any person I like under the standard conditions of mutual safety and consent (legal age, public decency, etc). I am also allowed to get tattoos, piercings, eat pork, drink alcohol, etc.
There is no legal ground to condemn having consensual sex for any reason, for pleasure, reproduction, or even profit.
Etimos 7 months ago
@Etimos of course there are legal grounds for not allowing u to exploit women in sex slavery conditions, nor fuelsex trafficking, and instead protect women from psychological/physical harm.
the criminal isnt the prostitutes, is you.
prostitution is a crime against women. abolitionism will inevitable to return to Canada as it returned in Europe, cause societies care more for harm reduction policies/protecting women, than what liberturds ,as you, consider his sexual right for a "cumdumbster"..
AmetReloads 7 months ago
@AmetReloads You are, as always, a simpleton.
BobChaos23 7 months ago
@BobChaos23 shus bobo you retard..
did nt i warn you in one of your ludicrous videos that Harper will come buck with vengeance, taking buck more than the court has given..
unforgivably double digid iq humanoids, like you, cant but permanently live in their porno-fantasy world..(as always)..
is it that hard to realize that society doesn't place your ejaculation,you wanker, as a priority?
AmetReloads 7 months ago
@AmetReloads So you support the Prime Minister of a country having power over courts based on his own personal beliefs...interesting.
Criticising my "iq" when you can barely compose a sentence totally made my day...I miss you,. you are just so funny. ^_^
As for my ejaculation, and its prioritization, I have my hand for that, actually. This is actually about protecting women, something you care little about, you would rather tell them what they can do with their own bodies....Amet knows best?
BobChaos23 7 months ago
@AmetReloads ... I could come up with an entire argument against the stupidity you just spouted, like how legalizing prostitution would have no effect on the legality of slavery, or the fact that professional prostitutes are thus by choice, because they enjoy the work or the benefits thereof, such as dominatrices and other specialists, but frankly, you're not worth the effort.
You couldnt even spell Cum Dumpster right in your idiotic little straw-man.
Go fuck yourself :)
Etimos 7 months ago
@Etimos AmetReloads won't be back. We don't need that kind of garbage here. I'm all for discussing other points of view, but that's not what that was.
SmilingSkeptic 7 months ago
Surprise surprise that religious organizations are against rights for prostitutes. Douche bags, the lot of them. I hope that the Sex Workers get their victory. It really would be a step in the right direction for society as a whole. There is nothing "immoral" about selling or buying sex. Oldest trade known to man. And it's sex. There is nothing immoral about sex. Only the religious put sex in that light.
Swidhelm 7 months ago
This seems like another example where the Judges of the Supreme court and the People in Government disagree. The government seems to think that if one engages in an activity that they feel is wrong then that person derserves to suffer, even if measures can be put in place to alleviate that suffering. I mean, just look at the InSite issue.
helical4 7 months ago