Dogfights: No room for error: Art Fiedler - Part 1 of 2

[topgunexcel]

Hmm a very bad mistake! To many Benzedrine lozenges perhaps

[WileyCoyoteAcme]

this propaganda nonsense is not only embarassing

what we were taught in shool what only fascists and commies did

it's a growing problem

Canada created their own channel

but as soon as that company was purchased by a US company

their programming changed to these US-only series too

"Dogfights" doesn't even have allied fighter vs fighter victories represented

only US and israeli tales

there have been impartial series out there since 'world at war', History Channel won't show them

[GKris1989]

@WileyCoyoteAcme If you want to see something worth while and way better than this crap... look up the most awesome ww2 aviation Ace documentary ever made....its called hunters in the sky! you will hear from Aces from all countries! it truly is a awesome multi part film. good luck :)

[SukhoiSu47]

Haha....the FW-190's "impossible" maneuver was exceeded by the P-51 in another episode. This also suggests that the FW-190 has better maneuverability, so what the hell?

Furthermore, the P-51 was suffering from poor performance close to the deck unlike they explain on this show.

What the hell?

[YouT00ber]

@SukhoiSu47 - plz note this is still basically a cartoon rendering of events.

[SukhoiSu47]

@YouT00ber

It still has to be based on some history, doesn't it?

[YouT00ber]

@SukhoiSu47 - it is. the pilot told the story of his experience, and this is what the animators came up with to visualize his story.

[blkwtch37]

It's to be expected that US shows would show US pilots. It's called patriotism. Nothing wrong with it. In Germany they always have German pilots on these shows. Nothing wrong with taking pride in what our servicemen did and the sacrifices they made for us.

[Olli120]

@blkwtch37 finally a comment i can identify with. thank you!

[blkwtch37]

There are plenty of DVDs available telling the German story. Interesting to see they have a very similar story to US pilots. They say pilots on both sides shared a common bond even though they were fighting each other. It shows in their stories.

[KidoSire]

0:55 LOL WTF???

[KickenItOldSchool]

I know its so gay how they only do American pilots probably because they want everyone to be all for America or whatever

[agouti6]

History channel should do one about erich hartmann, or even better, hans ulrich rudel. A lot of their combat experience is publically known, because of the combat cameras in german planes. And with a kill score of 519 tanks, and hundreds of other land targets, as well as a battleship and destroyer, you can't go wrong on the "badass" factor.

[TigerMeadows]

@agouti6

They only make these about US pilots.

[agouti6]

@TigerMeadows But why? I think pilots from other countries deserve to have their story told, History Channel doesn't have to have such a pro-allies bias all the time.

[YouT00ber]

@agouti6 - it's called target demographic. look it up. pilots from other countries definately deserve to have their stories told, but it's not a the responsibility of a US basic cable channel to tell them. these other countires... they have television, yes?

w/ any luck these other countries respect the service their own countrymen gave and tell their stories.

[GKris1989]

@YouT00ber If you want to see something worth while and way better than this crap... look up the most awesome ww2 aviation Ace documentary ever made....its called hunters in the sky! you will hear from Aces from all countries! it truly is a awesome multi part film. good luck :)

[51mikep]

galland, rall, theres many german aces that would make a great 2 hour special as their still alive, and most kept journals of their accounts...

[pharoah246]

Jesus Christ Diving in an Airplane at 24,000 feet is worse than riding the Tallest Rollercoaster in the world.

[MesserschmittBf109g6]

There is something fishy about this mans story. why would 64 FW 190's form this strange rectangle? It has no advantages, and I have never heard of anything even resembling this kind of a tactic.

[YouT00ber]

This is a guy w/ 8 kills, why's he going to make up something like this? whatever the reason for or against such a formation, lots of everyday occurrences don't make it into a book or get captured on video, so do plz consider that. thx

[MesserschmittBf109g6]

I didn't mean to say he was lying, or making thing up, but that he might be recalling this incorrectly or something. And this is not really an everyday occurrence, forming up like that takes a lot of skills, it was difficult enough for large bomber formations to keep their formation, keeping such a large an tight formation must be as good as imposable. It also seems strange to attack bombers like this, because it present a bigger target, and the first lines obstruct all the others field of fire.

[70fy1superbird]

@MesserschmittBf109g6

Consider the advantage of a catrostrophic field of fire from this formation of 128 20 mm cannons against a formation of 17's, Scary!

[Rossco139]

@MesserschmittBf109g6

Well who the hell are you?? have you ever even flow a plane? This man fought for your freedom. You didn't call him a liar, but damn close. please think before you say stuff like that.

[MesserschmittBf109g6]

@Rossco139

Well, I guess you are partially right. He didn't actually fight for my freedom but that is irrelevant. Like I have tried to clarify I was not calling him a liar, and I am not accusing him of exaggerating either. If misremembering is a word that is basically what I was speculating had happened, since the formation he describes seems almost impossible, and vastly ineffective and dangerous. But I guess he must have witnessed something similar though, well I don't claim to know anything

[51mikep]

@MesserschmittBf109g6 - this formation was used but generally 109's, 190's were typically on the eastern front... what i dont get is he sees the german by bombers 1 on1... they dogfight for a while than another 190 shows up.. that doesnt mean it was 2 the whole time...lol...stupid narrator... what was the 109 with them too...lol... obviously he was on their way home

[MesserschmittBf109g6]

@51mikep

Do you have any references about the use of that formation? I have never heard of anything like it.

But FW-190's were, I am quite sure, used more in west than in the east, especially when the daylight bomber campaign started, because the 190 was a heavier and bigger plane that the 109 and so provided a better gunplatform (4 x 20mm + 2 x 7,92mm or 13mm of FW-190's vs. 1 x 20mm + 2 x 7,92mm or 13mm of the Bf-109's)

[51mikep]

@MesserschmittBf109g6 - yes dogfights i think the p51 or p47 episode has a similar formation of 109's (a yellow nosed one i remember particulary)... also german ww2 newsreels on here...190 was used extensively in the east and in the west because of what you mentioned and visibility armour improvements over the 109/ not to mention no vulnerable coolant lines... the bf 109 k4 had 3 cannon 2 machine guns

[MesserschmittBf109g6]

@51mikep By that late staged of the war painting the noses yellow had stopped, at least in the way they portrayed it in the computer graphics, painting the underside of the nose was still practiced and in the closing months planes on the eastern front had yellow bands around the noses, anyways I don't think anyone talked about that formation in that episode. The 109K-4 had 2 13mm mgs and 1 30mm cannon, a K-6 variant was proposed with two additional 20mm in the wings and the proposed K-14 too.

[mafuletrekkie]

@MesserschmittBf109g6 In this formation you can bring a massive amount of firepower to bear by having all planes firing over the plane in front of them, the shots arc because of gravity and decimate anything in there path. Its unwieldy but when using it even a bomber would be slapped from the sky.

[paul6t4]

@mafuletrekkie The British tried similar formations at the beginning of WW2 known as fighting area attacks. These were found to be absolutley useless as the formation was so unwieldly interception was almost impossible. The other problem was the fact that the pilots spent so much time keeping formation they couldnt watch for enemy fighters. there were many times that planes at the rear were shot down without anyone in the formation knowing they were missing.

[mafuletrekkie]

@paul6t4 All valid points, however if you remember for some time after beginning daylight bombing over Germany the bombers had no fighter cover, they were on their own. Germany also had enough defensive depth at the time that incoming waves could be sighted and reported to give Germany the time needed to organize a defensive screen. Later in the war this formation would have been ill advised and costly, but sometimes commanders do something because it worked before, not because its smart now.

[19thepyrochilibean]

Germany is crazy lmfao

[bananian]

holy bejesus, I never knew you can make a formation like that! It's like a midair lawnmower!

[deadspirit90]

Germany hacks! =o

[xXJokerwildXx]

has any of you heard or read of a british pilot named Edward "Teach" Tatcher?

[alyelhadad]

the p51 mustang, crusader, f16, had no alternative

[atunaco]

French RAF hero, Pierre Clostermann, explained clearly the reason of the superiority of german pilots. He said they had no tours of duty at the LW, so many of them had been fighting since the war of Spain in 1936 to 1945 and they had got such a big experience, that it was almost impossible shoot them down.

[darkcornbreadhunter]

5:16, if I was in that position, i'd be yelling HAX!

[HayateAce]

No, at this time in the war US fighters had been released to pursue the LW wherever they ran to. Destruction of the LW was the goal, en route to total air supremacy.

It worked.

[alyelhadad]

oh really... pursuing rats they were?

Luftwaffe pilots had no alternative in power actually.. its the collapse of ground forces that lead to the collape of luftwaffe

[HayateAce]

You haven't the slightest clue of this topic.

The LW was effectively defeated on the western front by 1943-1944, before the Allied ground forces ever got their little booties wet on D-Day. Read a book plz, mmkaaythxbye.

[alyelhadad]

the best german pilot scored 353 victories, the best american scored 26 or some thing like this small and wussy number

[HayateAce]

Sorry champ, the Luftwaffle got their butt kicked out of the skie, deal with my man. You cannot change history, sorry.

As for the scoring, the German pilot was E. Hartmann and he scored almost all those 353 on the Eastern front against vastly inferior Russian pilots and planes. Once he got to the Western front, his scoring dropped dramatically. Look it up.

Your ignorance is deafening..

[PKiddy69]

He never fought on the Western front, though I agree with most of what you saying, saying things like" Your ignorance is deafening" while being wrong yourself is what... blinding? Retarded. This argumnent about who had better pilots is common and senseless the circumstances negate any need for discussion. The allies had tours the Germans fought until dead or injured. Next.

[bonehead712]

the highest scoring American fighter pilot had 40 kills

[alyelhadad]

i just appreciate the p51 mustang, it was the fighter number one in the war

[Mattebubben]

well if u look for Preformance many german planes was better the Fw 190 D was better at almost every way and the 109 was as good the latest Version of the 109 the 109K Kurfurst was Faster then the Mustang and most of the 109 Climbed better

[rawdawg15]

Thats because Germans had to fight until they died. IN the USAF, you could actually survive the war. After a certain number of missions, you went back to the states and teached new flyers.

[shouavaj12]

I top that.

And yes brave move anyone pilot who had to take 64 aircrafts alone would've have been terrified.

[Faucon551237]

5:30

Fighters pilot should made some aerobatics flights before going to war then... O_O

[alyelhadad]

O_o

[Treblaine]

What is this about the Fw 190 being armed with 7.92mm machine guns? All other sources I find say it had a pair of 13mm (effective .50 cal) machine guns to complement 4 x 20mm cannons.

[RenerDeCastro]

earlier models had them.well,the older models and newer models were both being used during the war

[Treblaine]

thanks

[kinficher]

es la primera ves ke veo algo tan espectacular nada mas se agradese

[Batu731]

classic energy dogfight, both planes shine in this kind of fight, and both pilots know exactly what they should do

classic

[Metalgearsolid4vid20]

Crazy, that would be tight if it was the same 190

[privatesteverogers]

I was wondering if anyone had the rest of the episode to post.I can´t find it anywhere.If you are not able to find the whole episode at leat the part in which shows Robin Olds victorys.

[KUNYSZZ]

If my flight leader said that the bogies are Mustangs, i would say, " they're bogies they are shooting the bombers, I'm gone." i would face the consequences of breaking from my leader. I would attack a formation of 64 planes all by myself and be very aggressive.

[RenerDeCastro]

well,you should pick the plane at the tail end of the formation and shoot him then dive away

[KUNYSZZ]

you are right nad i should target tail-end Charlie or the rear half of the formation and hope to break the formation of 190's.

[Redeemedsinner17]

It take guts to be a fighter pilot, it take courage to attack a formation of 64 FW-190s

Eddie Rickenbacker, "YOu can not have courage without fear"

[Rockin2Long]

Actually made a boo boo. The plane in the show is an FW-190A8/R-6 armeed with 4 wing mounted 20mm and cowl mounted MGs

Top speed in the show for this plane in not accurate, the top speed is for a Dora at 408MPH, the 190A-8/R-6 goes about 385-400 mac level flight.

[ElFanjul]

Wahat an absurd airplane formation of the germans...for me is totally silly!!!!!!!!!...

[Rockin2Long]

the plane in the video is an FW-190D-9 (at least that's what the video pictures and the top speed also matches, as does the armament). They were armed with two 13mm mg in the cowling, and two wing mounted 20mm cannons in the wings.

The FW-190A appeared in many variants, some with 30mm cannons.

The later version of the Fw 190 fighter was similar to the Dora but had larger wingspan and carried 2x13mm and 2x30mm.

[Rockin2Long]

Later version: Focke Wulf TA-152

Niether the TA-152 or the 190D can out turn a P-51, but CAN out-ROLL one!

The FW-190A can out turn and Out-Roll a p-51 but is slower.

[mightycowhero]

dogfighting at its finest.

[Eurofighter19]

because im suppose to follow orders doesn't mean that i will stay immobile watching those bombers getting slaughter, sometimes the most disciplined pilot will act by his own deciding what is the best, by diving in front of the formation fiedler put his tail on the line but he saved a handful of bombers, an act of courage for a pilot, your problem is not with the show, your problem is with america wining the war. it is a waste of time debating with haters, period

[zthao2007]

i dont get it... y would Fiedler go for the front line when he could've slow down and ended behind all the 109, then start shootin, he would've have bigger chance of takin out more 109???

[EagleEyedRanger]

Yeah, I have read many many books about WW2 dogfighting (books written from the view points of both the allies and axis side) and I have never heard about a formation anything like that, and it seems like a formation that would be more dangerous to the german pilots than to anyone else. Something doesn't seem right with that...

[antonyvt]

i have never seen a formation like that from the (luff), very strange, that even as many as there is, the 190s still flying so badly.

[angryace13]

put an airplane on a clock nose headed towards 12 oclock, when thay 6 oclock, that means behind, 12 oclock in frunt, 9 oclock left 3 oclock right. a black out, airplanes like the p51d mustang go so fast, when you pull out of a dive or go into a hard turn, the blood goes from your head to your feet, it looks like a curtan, a good pilot can take 9 somtimes 10gs fore a few seconds before a black curtan starts falling over his or her line of vision, 6 to 7 gs fore about 7 to 10 seconds.

[HuntedStr3]

what does fielder mean at 5:00-6:00 when he says he scram and tighted his stomach to stop a black out what does a black out mean

[YouT00ber]

gravity forces pull the blood out of the brain, makes you pass out.

"red out" is when gravity forces pull blood into your brain and you see red.

[angryace13]

ok let me re state what i just said dont pay atention to what i said below the moovie sais the focke wulf turns tighter than the mustang, not by any stretch of the emagination does the focke wulf turn better, nither by rate or radious, the focke wulf has a verry poor turn, the mustang on the other hand, turns verry exelent, infact, its main asset of manuveribility is infact its turn rate and how tight it turns, so who ever said the focke wulf turns tigher, get your facts straight,IT DOESENT.

[angryace13]

ok part of the vidio said that the fw190a8 wich is the exact modle of focke wulf it is, most defenetly does not have a tighter truning radious that the p-51d mustang, not by any streach of the emagination, most focke wulfs have a verry poor rate of turn, and turn verry wide, so poor turning, however, thay do have a verry quick roll rate that does beat the p51's, the p51-b and d mustangs main asset of manuverability, is infact its rate of turn and how tight it turns.

[ztownpirate]

Good video, but the Pilot's name is misspelled in your video title and description. The correct spelling is "Fiedler" instead of Friedler.

[YouT00ber]

Thanks for pointing that out!

[TacticusPrime]

huh? in what possible situation would you want to have a solid bloc of FW-190s? the back ranks wouldn't have been able to fire without risking the front. were they responsible for the downed B-17s? that part doesn't make any sense.

[VonSchweidnitz]

Special anti-heavy bomber units such as II./JG 300 used (quite interestingly) very tight formations with heavily armed and armored Focke-Wulfs. On July 26, 1944 there were 20 ships of this unit engaged against heavis in Vienna territory. All other units on that day in that area were either German or Hungarian Bf 109 units. The unhappy guy who bailed out from Bf 109 too low was most likely a JG 301 pilot.

[ArmaFennica]

Thanks for the background!

Around twenty I would buy, but 64..nope. And tight formation in a single line I'd again believe, but in square formation.. only the first line could open fire. Did these FW-190 bomber hunters have heavy cannon armament? Because the Mustang pilot recalls how B-17 were torn up badly in the opening engagement.

[Vruk88]

Some FW 190 models were heavily armed with two Mk 108 30mm cannons in the wings (submodel -R2, if I'm not mistaking), though even the basic models after A-4 were armed with four 20mm cannons and two 13mm machineguns.

[newfiekingpin]

does any one know were i can find the new esposid on here we dont get them here in canada so if any one know send me a message plz

[austinboy91]

I think I love u LOL.

[ME262MKI]

B-17 SHOOTDOWN EVERYWHERE, COOL!!

[darkcornbreadhunter]

now that's just scary 0_0

[RunningBlue22]

mistakes left and right xD

[jairogut]

4) Lol I Cant believe an experienced pilot who maked vertical combat to get killed in that fag (sorry for the vocabulary) way... the p51 rolled and the fw did nothing... lol then the p51 appeared behind.lol An Airplane with an awsome roll rate as a fw190 could easily match a roll... I DONT BELIEVE THAT HAPPENED LIKE THAT

[Eurofighter19]

Ok dude, we got your point but remember that by 1944 the luftwaffe experienced pilot were gone already maybe that pilot was a rocky pilot, we'll never know but the fact is that the P-51 Mustang pilot is alive and the FW 190 pilot is dead and that's what really talks in my opinion.

[jairogut]

There are lots of mistakes here:

1) Look how the P51 uses de elevator in the vertical turn when it makes the loop lol it is impossible

2) They say the fw 190 had 4 30 mm cannons in the second video.. that wasnt true

3) When the p51 runs out of ammo it wasnt recreated well enough because the external guns (I am not sure about which ones) had more ammo than the internal, so it last longer

[Halofan11]

keep in mind that this is a virtual recreation dude. so #1 on your list should be removed.

[RickyboyH]

i get your point, but its just a 3d recreation, its not meant to be 100% accurate.. its meant to give us a picture on how it was for those brave men that went up in the air to defeat the enemy.. If you want 100% perfection, then they'd had to recreate it by playing IL2 or something.

[jairogut]

Great 3d programmer... But I think history channel`s advisor isnt that good...I found some mistakes here :

1) The P51 6 machine guns had different ammo life... I dont remember how is this but its something like the 4 inner would shoot for 18 seconds and the 2 external 24 secs.. They show like all the machine guns went out of ammo at the same time (in vid 2 of 2)

[lupinorion]

Great documentaries! Thank you.

[Irrit8d]

This did not happen in the way described here.

[YouT00ber]

plz provide links to back it up, thx

[Calimero77]

That formation the FW-190 are flying in is total nonsense. I don't know where they pulled that one from...

[YouT00ber]

from the guy who saw it?

[Phas3e]

I think they misunderstood the guy comments,

These would have been Strum 190s in a line abreast or arrow formation, just not so close together that it makes them like a flying billboard that only gives the first row a shot at the bombers.

[Eurofighter19]

The P-51 pilot was there, you were not there so I'm going to trust him a real pilot and not you.

[ArmaFennica]

But that tactics is THE poorest one any squadrone commander could order, that formation would require five(5) squadrones, German Luftwaffe did not fly in tight formations, and they as sure as hell would have also engaged the mustangs so that others could take the bomber out.

[annetta220]

Very interesting video. My uncle was in the 325th checkertail fighter group and was KIA the day after this.

[Eurofighter19]

May you uncle rest in peace.

[YouT00ber]

watch the video again, thx

[weipeiwu2000]

Why didn't he sneak behind the formation and shoot them ?

[japz0021]

He was hoping to break up the formation by shooting the squadron leader.