@CDW757 ...except Malcolm himself later repudiated his separatist views saying that he was doing nothing more than blindly following Elijah Muhammad. Sorry but the NOI is based on the intellectually and morally bankrupt philosophies of the (at least) partially White charlatain W. Fard Muhammad.
@DrDaystrom Too bad Malcolm apologized to Elijah and said he still believes the NOI teachings on tape before he was murdered by the CIA. There also a recording of Malcolm meeting with the FBI to discuss money for inside information. Intellectually and morally bankrupt philosophies came from homosexuals like Rustin.
@GTpanik HA ignorant fool, you judge him on his sexual orientation and his color but are clueless about his beliefs and philosophy. Please and I mean this dearly, you don't deserve to be on youtube let alone the actual world.
Malcolm X saw brotherhood in Mecca was because the whites accepted Islam he said if whites in America would accept Islam then it would be a different story he said whites have the attitude of boss he did not find that among the whites when he visited Mecca
@mdna72 Rustin, the Nation of Islam, and the Ku Klux Klan were all being funded by the federal government. It was about instigation and destabilization.
When a smaller company merges with a large company the small company takes on the values of the larger company and before you know it they don't exist anymore
Basiaclly Bayard rustins view is to beg and cry to the white man for jobs and freedom while malcolm X view is to separate circulate own dollar among our own people because we are not and never have been in their interest in religion economy socially eternally....
I think what Rustin was saying and what I agree with is that the Civil Rights Movement was not just about liberating the Black man. It also had to be about Economic prosperity among all men and that included poor Whites
@bluesboy25000 nah, It was started by blacks for blacks, and like ALL things that blacks start and create, the white man seeks to infiltrate, dilute, distort and, over time, claim and appropriate it from the black man.
@bluesboy25000 That was exactly what was wrong with the civil rights movement. Every other social group was able to get all the benefits even though it was black people who took all the abuse.
Intergration was a trick and lap dogs like Rustin made sure he added his piece to seeing blacks stay at the bottom of society...Seperation is the only option even unto today's more modern times...things are more worse than ever
@imALLn A Seperate society from white people period. Their system, laws, culture, ways, language, land, schools, business....etc in other words EVERYTHING...Does this help?
@imALLn Cant see how flawed that is, when the best societies we produced DID NOT INCLUDE WHITE PEOPLE. We, black people, are taught in public schools everything but our real accomplishments in this society. From the negro league, black thriving businesses, Blackwallstreet, Rosewood, etc, I can go on and on and on...There were towns and cities we founded that we made successful doing for self...Only for angry white mobs to come and kill innocent children, rape our women and put us into Jim Crow.
@carlosam16 The flaw in your logic is that you see it as only black and white. There are people of every color in every nation being oppressed. And some of those people are white as well. You can't disregard them. I understand that the current system is flawed and needs to be changed. Separation from that is needed but in this day and age we need everyone black, white, brown, whatever to unite if we want to truly bring about change.
@imALLn It is more and righteousness and evil play, but at the same time its better to get your home intact first. Charity starts at home, and we need time as a people to get ourselves together and then reach out. Involving everybody to start makes this process harder to do.
@imALLn I am not condeming anyone, I am just saying we need to do our own thing period. As for poor whites thats a crock because many of them are the executors of wicked agendas...case in point KKK
@carlosam16 Sweeping generalization fam. Where's the proof? I'm not saying there's a whopping amount of poor whites but I'm saying they're there and they should be down for the cause as well. I'm all about raising the collective consciousness with people of color but we can't turn around and shit on someone simply bc of racial differences when economically they might be in the same situation.
@imALLn Sweeping generalizaiontion...lol Have you heard of slavery and if so, WHO WAS THE PEOPLE THAT RETURNED RUN AWAY SLAVES? KKK...AKA AS POOR WHITE TRASH. THE hated black people and often killed massa's merchandise which they did not appreciate. Yes, there are some and I mean some as a few white brothers down for the cause, no doubt, and NOI backs their interest, but they MUST be righteous. It is time blacks look out for themselves then reach out is my point. We always looking for a white
@imALLn to go with us or we aint going. Believe me, I am not racial or racist, I have too many whites in my family (by marriage not blood line that I know of) that were ok, but I am not defending them to the lord of the worlds, they can defend themselves. I have compassion to all of humanity, but we can work together, but seperation is for us, to get out down trodden turned around. Yes, our oppressor may be the same but CHARITY STARTS IN YOUR HOME FIRST. Thats why we in the mess we in today.
@carlosam16 I dig that. Essentially we're both talking about decolonization of the mind. This is more of a conscious struggle than it is a physical one. Now I want to make it clear I'm not trying to debate for integration and what not. When it comes to 'separation', what I do agree with is separation from ignorance but I what I don't agree with is a physical separation from everything. We shouldn't pack up and move out we should regain and assert power and effectively revolutionize the system.
@imALLn We MUST SEPERATE. And yes, we need to find and keep are righteous mind, but we must relocate our BEHIND. Black folks is all too happy to keep letting slave master provide as little as possible for us and we do nothing for ourselves. WE need to control out destiny whether in America or otherwise that the US needs to fund and let us heal ourselves and go on about our business. Staying in a society we dont control will never alter our current underclass state. complete seperation, only.
@imALLn Malcom only flaw was joining with his open enemy against his teacher that made him the man everyone knew and admired. Black people will be forced to do it again considering this country cant pay what they owe us for slavery and jim crow. We have tried everything and now a black president that is making things even harder for blacks even tho he is not doing it intentionally. Seperation is the only answer as its mentioned in the bible and qu ran. You cant argue TRUTH...
@carlosam16 Truth is his teacher and his organization conspired with the white man to get Brother Malcolm killed. That was counter productive to the movement and I could never rock with an organization like that. If you believe that Malcolm's flaw was leaving the nation and that the civil rights leaders Malcolm began to work with were the enemies then my brother you are lost. Give me some TRUTH because all I see is ignorance.
@imALLn Also, the Hon Elijah Muhammad did not plot with no white man to kill Malcom X. This is ignorance on your part because if I was alive then I would have tried to kill Malcom x myself. The man was a hypocrite and went against a righteous man because he began to listen to the white man and the devil make him deviate from what was right and LIE on a holy man. Yes, Hon Elijah M had more than one wife, so what? Did not all the prophets and messengers? Malcom lost his mind and when he found it
@imALLn it was too late and he was killed by his open enemy. Nobody from the NOI touched Malcom X despite what he had done and he deserved to die. I am not his judge but the Qu ran is clear on this matter. You dont turn on somebody that raised you up from nothing without searching for truth and handling what took place in a righteous manner. Leaving the HOn Elijah M was a bold yet STUPID MOVE! As history teaches and all he has a streets and some schools named after him that only talk about life
@imALLn life after the NOI, which IS NOT what made him who he is. Black people need to cling the the tree and not a branch from the tree, because if a branch breaks you go down with the branch, but if you are attached to the tree you will on...
Malcolm was gay so I'm sure he sucked off Rustin and fucked him bareback after this debate. Nothing better than seeing a raging gay man debating an in the closet nutcase. Steamy!
Well Rustin was Dead Wrong.. Malcolm was... Right!!! Integration is Killing Us as a Race of people..White people will never share the wealth with us... bye the way,,Rustin was a Homo Too..It time for people to do for self....Integration didn't work in the pass. It willn't work in the future'''
Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X were right. Generation after decade after decade our ppl were content to say at least today blah blah & thats exactly how it has stayed, 'at least', thats why when the 10% of our ppl do get some riches they parlay it into the worlds bank instead of creating our own independant companies, they don't see themselves in themselves. How can u expect to beg the mastah to move in thier house & think u r going sleep in their bed, we will forever be living in the basement
Though there's more potent and swift methods to initiate societal change, societies change best gradually. Part of MLK's methods and civil disobedience and Progressivism.
This dude was a effing child molester. How can you say a man that messed with teenage males and said blacks can't do things alone is a hero? We are still doing it alone. This dude was a criminal that had he messed with my son I would have shot him twice in the head. A pediphile a black hero. Perve lover. You should die.
Must be known the meanings of tolerance, co-exist, peace, love, respecting Human dignity and multi-culture structure earlier than we imagine. The matter goes far than it for reasons visible and invisible must truth come out and respect the communities, Malcom X Rest in Peace on memory of you and dead of criminal Osama bin laden May.01.2011 . The matter required more editions and investigations toward secure America and save Human dignity regardless anything. Rest in peace Malcom X.
Bayard Rustin was possessed with a white man spirit the way he was talking. He is a fool and an embarrassment to black people. He was a trained monkey talking that black people can't govern ourselves without help. Get's on my damn nerves the way that told blacks to not fight back but only fight with "peace". Blacks were supposed to fight physically back and we would be owning way more than what we do in America!
Malcolm understood the need for African people to be strong and independent. How can we be of value to the human family when we're still asking for a quarter as opposed to learning how to build a bakery and make our own bread? People like Rustin continue to cripple African people with false coalitions which weaken us more.
Malcolm post nation of islam wouldve done a better job debating malcolm pre-conversion to mainstram islam than Bayard Rustin. Although Rustin was an amazing in himself, Malcolm simply had a gift for debate.
Yeah he was a faggot that was CENTRAL to one of the largest non-violent protests in American history, so why don't you show some respect and stop acting like a bigot.
Suck up's!! Now you tell me TODAY what do you think about Malcom X!!? the problem is the world of today has become a world of suck ups!! just what illuminati brits wanted!!?
@jaronnewyork, don't you think Rustin just meant that in the context of an integrated society, cooperation was necessary? I can't believe he would say that it was not possible for blacks to self-govern; it's just that he was committed to the idea of integration.
@AJmn71 completely agree with your take on Rustin's perspective. He was referring to American Society, not a segregated society within America, or any society within the world. And he is right: the world is a better place when we acknowledge the strengths of ALL citizens at the table - as well as their inherent equality. We are only human.
@AJmn71 Im saying he was on the wrong side. I know what he meant and it was bull, and the man was a enemy of Black Nationalism, that's why he argued with Malcolm X. Blacks been cooperating since they where brought to america, so think about that, what was he really trying to say?
@AJmn71 Bayard Rustin is right that it can't be done alone. His mistake was in thinking it could be done at all. The white American is incapable of transformation and with the largest prison population (half Black) it continually proves that it is incapable of transformation.
For some, it may have been unclear as to who was correct but it is now resoundingly clear. Malcolm was right. Whites will never truly integrate because they will not give reparations which are the key to real integration.
@atlien991 Big talk, REAL talk, and the key word you mentioned was Reparations. There are some people who tell Me that I forget I have white blood in me because my dad is Jamaican, and my mother is an English White woman. But I ask them what has that got to do with the truth since truth has no colour as much as 1 + 1 is 2 ? The reasons why europeans AND Arabs refuse to take responsiblity for their crimes is because they are racist , and they don't wanna pay Reparations.
the more time passes, the more we realize marcus garvey and Malcolm x was right. We integrate while behind our back they control Africa and the rest of the world. They protect theirs we should protect ours. I bet they wont integrate revenue from diamonds that are from Africa. I bet they wont leave Africa to be controlled by Africans. I bet they wont even let us control the schools that Africans occupy around the world. Steal our land and then charge us to live in it. ARE YOU CRAZY!! COMMON SENSE
@Kumtekmeon Come on small steps first, we won't get any type of government of our own if we can't have some type of economic control in our own communities. You stated before that it's impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. Those Jewish, Chinese and indian communities are a form of separatism, where are the diverse stores in their communities? Are you saying those communities are unpreductive?
They are both great men. Latter on Malcolm saw things more Rustin way. Malcolm started to believe it could be beneficial if other races, religions, & cultures can work together.
@toni444444444444 You are absolutely right, the trip to Mecca changed his views of separatism, however he still stood for blacks developing and supporting their own communities.
THIS CHUMP WAS OUT TO SELL BLACKS DOWN THE RIVER FROM THE START, AS YOU CAN SEE THIS PUNK WAS ALL ABOUT GAY RIGHTS, HE NEVER GAVE A DAME ABOUT HIS OWN RACE. HOMO LIFE STYLE WILL LEAD TO THE DESTRUCTION OF BLACK PEOPLE
@LARONY24 You are such an IGNORAMUS to make such a retarded statement. If it wasn't for Bayard Rustin, The success of the Civil Rights Movement would NOT have been possible. It's a SHAME that you are here attacking the man who TAUGHT Martin Luther King non-violent protest and organized the the march to Washington. You are ungrateful and full of HATRED that you are willing to dismiss the great efforts of a man simply because he's gay!
@Th3Individual Oh one more thing (and also not to be rude), your statement "if white people hadn't behaved like the devil" betrays exactly the kind of mentality I think needs to be challenged. It's as if white people are one living breathing organism bound together and responsible for the actions of each other. I think we all need to stop thinking with our skin tone, stop looking at each other through our ethnicity and realise that but for melanin their are no differences between races. Amen
@Th3Individual You don't need to explain his rationale. I've read his autobiography and I'm sure if half of the male members of my family were killed by members of a certain race I'd feel exactly the same towards that race. I wouldn't dream of criticising Malcolm for that. My problem is with the hypocrite known as Elijah Mohammed
@Th3Individual It is violence... The defense IS violence, Malcolm recognized this... it's certainly NOT Non-violence... that's why the U.S. changed the name of the military from Department Of War to Department of Defense. White folks have always been violent, the people in control now just want to fool everyone into thinking that it's defense now so everyone can be friendly but then stab each other in the back.
@Th3Individual Ah... of course they were not vioent, but ttheir phiosophy was vilence if necessary... espeially Malcolm after he left NOI. The white folks have always been violent... always...
Bayard Rustin is a nasty sell-out that doesn't know anything about himself.
Rustin is so confused and Malcolm had the right examples, because Malcolm inspired us to fight our causes.
Rustin was just Uncle Sam's glove puppet and Malcolm was inspired us to be freed to organizes our own rights and our own power structure outside our Motherly continent of Africa.
Rustin the failure and Malcolm the courageous winner.
I think it's worth pointing out in relevance to this debate that when I perform a sexual act with a girl, I am quite partial to poking a cheeky little finger (pinky or possibly middle finger if I'm feeling adventurous) up the bumhole, or indulging in a jaunty ass slap. I recommend you do the same...
Even though I didn't agree w/Malcom X's position in favor of segregation, I could definitely understand it! Things were crazy racist when Iwas growing up and I was born in 67' My family had a "turn the other cheek" mentality, but growing up in those times and being a generation behind my elders we (young folks) always loved the way Malcom would say things straight out (which is considered politically incorrect today) So...it's segregation was something blacks felt we may as well do.
thats the problem with blacks back then they didnt let blks stand on thire own 2 feet they even said blacks wasnt cappable of leading this country now we got obama so bayard rustin could go fuck himself back then if i was at that debate
@buggeazy102 The appointment of Barack Obama as our commander in chief was largely contingent upon his ability to connect with white voters. So Rustin's ideologies are still applicable or relevant.
I can't accept in my heart the fact the Bayard said that modernization and socialization the negro can not do alone. i believe he was brainwashed...as well as any other man that believes that blacks can't govern a society without whites..
@QwidgyboMan I don't know what your trying to say, i dont even think you understand my point. to clear this up let me say this, i said nothing about the god awful job that whites are doing in government. And again i can't respect anyone who believes that one race cannot develop on their own.
Rustin did not say it's impossible to develop a society as one race. He was speaking pragmatically about what ought to happen to achieve the best result in the US. Malcolm X's and your position comes from paranoia and racism IMO.
@QwidgyboMan your hearing and reading what you want, i didn't say it's impossible, so you go on and have your own little debt with yourself. your just trying to put words in my mouth because your argument is baselesss and irrelevent from what im saying.
@jaronnewyork Why not say the black man can't do it alone? I'd say the white man can't do it alone either! Right up front, Rustin says you need the best minds, black and white.
@ApolloWasReal I wouldn't say the white man nor the black man can't do it alone. At the time of this debate life for blacks was not as it is today, what malcolm was promoting wasn't only segregation but for blacks to have a pride in ourselves. Begging for equal rights shows how helpless blacks were, no pride at all. How can a child build themself up when they never get to see the true potentials of their people. Look at the outcome, we don't even own stores in our own neighborhoods.
@jaronnewyork Bayard was speaking to the development of America....The greatness we know to be America is a result not of the "white man" but from coming together of the greatest minds and hearts of many cultures and groups of people. Bayard was arguing that for America to grow to be an even greater country we can't exclude whites from the table nor can whites exclude blacks!
@jaronnewyork You have taken Rustin's position out of context. If blacks did not have support from the whites, the success of the Civil Rights movement would not be possible. If women did not have the support of Men, women's right would not have been possible, AND if gays don't have the support of straight their full victory will not be possible. It's not a matter that blacks can't govern a nation, BUT they need the help of others. So far black nations are the poorest due to inner corruptions.
@Kumtekmeon Civil Rights Movemnet ? You must not care or not know what the true fight is. All the civil rights movement did was give weak legal rights and non-whites still get the short end of the stick . We wanted and still want equal human rights, because of pseudo intellectuals like Rustin Black people aren't considered strong. And black nations are the weakess now because they let whites infiltrate their structure with that dirty religion, blacks were doing just fine before that.
@jaronnewyork Where is the proof that blacks were doing just fine? In any event, Rustin was a practical man in that he disquieted all foolish notions that blacks within America could govern themselves. He recognized that NOT all men were the same. There is good and bad in every man, and the uniting of all races was more effective than the separation. Blacks are now in control of many nations, YET unable to take their people out of poverty, because of SELFISH GREED. That's not Rustin's legacy!
@Kumtekmeon Are you doubting me? Look up the kingdom of Kuba, or better yet just look up the history of africa, it's plain as day that europeans came down to africa with imperialism. Those black nations you speak of where never controlled by Blacks since like 1400's. They have been and still are under the control of the Royalty of Europe. And the church. They all follow the European governing structure.
@jaronnewyork I'm aware that there used to be Great KIngdoms existing in Africa, before the penetration of the whites, However, the idea that everyone was in unity and working for the betterment of ALL tribes is not true. In fact, that disunity supported the slave trade. Unfortunately, they did not estimate the greed of the whites, who then overthrew those Kingdoms. I was speaking to the situation existing here where blacks are the minority and so NEEDED allies among whites to effect change.
@Kumtekmeon As you should notice they didn't accomplished that change you speak of. The only way to get that type of change is to stand on your own two feet, then they will have to treat you as equals, not crawling on your patelles begging to have equal rights with folks that see you as 3 fifths of a human being.
@jaronnewyork, Change is a process and there will always be injustice, BUT the important thing is that much was done to allow blacks today to have a more level ground on which to fight. Their failure to seize the opportunity and to make good of the legacy of those before, are not the results of MLK or Rustin. In fact it is this 'Black Pride' factor that have held many blacks from progressing, because they continue to see everyone else as the enemy, and this is their own demise.
@Kumtekmeon No don't think there has been any true 'Black Pride' since the Harlem Renaissance. What i'm saying is there is a direct psychological link between the actions of those black leaders you hold in high esteem and the blacks today that fail to seize these opportunity you believe was achieved.
@jaronnewyork I do recall that there was a falling away from Rustin's ideology from groups like the Black Panther that wanted to do the opposite. So it's not like What we have today is a continuation of MLK/Rustin's philosophy. All that was hijacked by others who thought Black Pride was about being militant, which only turned out to regress the progress made. What we have today is the result of that opposition. I too believe that persons have a right to separate themselves, form their own state;
@jaronnewyork I know the whites during imperialism, had caused great psycho-social damages to the blacks, as well as leaving a legacy of poverty and political instability, BUT the fact is for the most part blacks are now heads of these nations, YET you find that not much is being done to uplift their fellow men. What we hear is a high level of corruption among politicians, and no accountability. Are we to continue blaming the white man for the selfish acts of these black political leaders?
@Kumtekmeon I'm not going to sit here and defend no politicians, and im not blaming the white man for trying to become the world power. I blame weak minded activist like Bayard who get access to speak two thousands of blacks turn around an use that stage to demolish black pride and support the white mans agenda. What i see here in america is alot of black ghettos and no black owned stores within them. I see parents with no goals because they spawn from generations of pushovers.
@jaronnewyork How can you accuse a PROUD black man for demolishing black pride? Bayard, in a time of harsh racism and social obstacles, persevered to get an education AND to take a stand in what he believes in, which is freedom for all. To dismiss the myth that blacks had a chance to rule themselves within America does not prevent blacks from pushing ahead. There is a continued blaming of the white man. IF blacks can recognize that the white man did them wrong, WHY can't they see their solution?
@Kumtekmeon Him a proud black man... in my book there are three types, there are the Marcus Garvey's the W.E.B. Dubois' and the followers. Being the Marcus Garvey type that I am, I don't see Bayard as a proud Black Man, i see him as a tool in the aid on dismantling true Black Pride.
@jaronnewyork I applaud the efforts of Marcus Garvey who was able to follow his ideology,and encouraged blacks to own businesses, to feel proud about their heritage etc, BUT I do not support any message of separatism. I would not feel comfortable living in an all Jew community, or an all white community, or an all black community, or an all gay community. For me there is nothing more rewarding than to see the coming together of all peoples - Isn't that what 'Heaven' is about?
@Kumtekmeon People should have the god giving right to be separate from any persons they choose to be separate from. As long as there's people that want different ways of living there will always be separation, you have religion and superstition to thank for that. I do support it separatism for those who prefer it.
@jaronnewyork But by separating oneself in a racially diverse country is unproductive. What blacks should've focused on was to to enrich themselves with as much knowledge and skills, thus putting themselves in a position to lead. What the sense of separating oneself IF you lack the resources to produce? We are all different in our religious, political, and even mythical beliefs, and it is these differences that UNITE us and bring stability. So even with separatism there will exist differences.
@Kumtekmeon If that were true, in ancient Khemet(Egypt), Africans would not, alone, have developed the knowledge and skill to teach and civilize the first white Europeans to call themselves Greeks, the Macedonians...and yet, they did teach them. As Diodorus Sicilus wrote hundreds of years before Herodotus lived, "When we first entered Egypt, there were no other foreigners there to be found." The Ionian mathematician, Thales, was one of the first white Greeks to be wholly educated in Africa.
@Taharqa999 I at no time said blacks OR any other group cannot govern themselves. My point is that it is impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. The Egypt experience is not the USA experience.
@Kumtekmeon I don't see that, I see china towns in ever major city, little indian communities as well. How can you say that being racially diverse in this country is unproductive? Jewish communities, muslum communities all over the place and they are all very productive, with low crime rates.
@jaronnewyork, Yes there are China towns existing, but they don't function outside of the wider society, in that they don't have their own government, laws, trade agreements, constitution etc. They are simply a reflection of our diversity. Their denseness has nothing to do with separatism, but rather cultural identity. So my POINT about racial diversity wasn't to say our diverse races are unproductive, but that the desire of one to separate itself in a wealth of diversity to be so.
@Kumtekmeon Come on small steps first, we won't get any type of government of our own if we can't have some type of economic control in our own communities. You stated before that it's impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. Those Jewish, Chinese and indian communities are a form of separatism, where are the diverse stores in their communities? Are you saying those communities are unpreductive?
Come on small steps first, we won't get any type of government of our own if we can't have some type of economic control in our own communities. You stated before that it's impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. Those Jewish, Chinese and indian communities are a form of separatism, where are the diverse stores in their communities? Are you saying those communities are unpreductive?
@Kumtekmeon I don't see that, I see china towns in ever major city, little indian communities as well. How can you say that being racially diverse in this country is unproductive? Jewish communities, muslim communities all over the place and they are all very productive, with low crime rates.
@Kumtekmeon People should have the god giving right to be separate from any persons they choose to be separate from. As long as there's people that want different ways of living there will always be separation, you have religion and superstition to thank for that. I do support separatism for those who prefer it, I'm not against mixing it up but it should be a choice made by the individual.
@jaronnewyork instead you find blacks selling out each other for selfish gains. Allowing guns and drugs to infiltrate their communities, which ended up destroying their own people. Everybody knows right from wrong. Why is it that some make it out of the project, while others remain? It takes hard work to make it in life. And as far as I see, there is a LACK of cohesion among blacks. Bayard did what he had to do. The story has begun, it's up to this generation to decide how it concludes.
@jaronnewyork Your absolutely right! Blacks should rule every place on Earth! Just look at how well Hait, Liberia, Somalia, Ivory Coast, Congo etc turned out!
@Shriner66 Ok ur a racist that believes that Blacks have no rights to anything so there's no use in trying to change your bias mind. And from what i see WHITES are the ones that think they should rule the Earth, you hate any person that isn't white or of your culture. Anything truthful you seek to discredit through manipulation. And the sad thing is most of you don't realize it, others don't care because your not on the recieving end of white supremacy.
@Shriner66 Thanks for letting me know how you felt about my comment, but i can't solve your problem, and i don't know what you could have hoped to achieve making your comment.
@Shriner66 " . . . look at how well Hait (sic), Liberia, Somalia, Ivory Coast, Congo etc turned out!"
Each country you've listed has a history of colonialism and European dominance both of which are the true culprits with respect how each has fared both politically & economically. The Congo? Belgium raped that country for generations, then the CIA assassinated Patrice Lumumba, its first elected leader. Haiti? Again, CIA ousted Aristide installing a dictator. And on and on. You're an ass.
How ignorant! Each of these countries was raped by white oppressors.
Haiti declared independence and Jefferson refused to recognize it instead of helping them. Poor Haitian were forced by France to pay millions of Dollars "reparation" to the colonials for the damage the independence war caused France. In recent decades US has toppled Haiti's govts that implemented policies that favored people instead of US corporations (Aristide), and installed puppet dictators (Papa Doc, Baby Doc).
Congo's 1st President Patrice Lumumba was taken out by US and European colonial powers 10 weeks after election because the mineral resources of Congo were too precious to be left to an independent nationalist leader. Lumumba was later assassinated. The puppet dictator installed by the US and Belgium was Mobutu who continued to rule with an iron fist for decades.
Belgium apologized to Congo in Feb 2002.
2006 US documents show assassination plans. US never apologized (did it ever?).
"...Trying to get Malcolm to see that it is a world community, a human community, a family in the United States." ~ 1:10, --- are you kidding me? A family in the US? They were lynching blacks, bombing black churches, and assassinating black leaders, and even killed Martin, Mr. "Love the Enemy and bake them cookies."
Obama is not a true black leader, he is an imitation of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. combined... the ultimate house negro. I think most black people in the country today are uneducated if they really think Obama represents blacks. Yes we are proud that a black guy made it... but this guy has done nothing so far that is in effort to supporting blacks in general.
@babyfods18 Americans had a choice. They voted for President Obama. Iowa is not a bastion of black or "mixed race" persons. It is filled with white folks who voted for Obama, boosting his presidential campaign during the primaries which ultimately got him elected. Your reference to Obama being of mixed race and not black, suggests that you are too hung-up on race. Don't be a hater, don't believe everything Al Sharpton says and take a basic English writing course. It will make you less sad. Adios
"The problem cannot be stated in terms of black and white". Malcolm eventually came round to this idea. I think Malcolm's intellect was shackled for far too long by the race myths of the Nation of Islam (as religions tend to do to a man), but one good thing that came out of that militant mentality was the brutal way he would shine a burning light on the injustices and tyranny that black people in America were subjected to. Something that the Civil Rights movement didn't do forcibly enough
@LeBigMacDaddy Without the NOI he would not have had that intellect, so you can't really say anything about Malcolm without first saying something good about the NOI. Secondly, the only reason the civil rights movement didn't point out the injustice that whites did enough is because of the house negros who were praised and are held higher than Malcolm X by the media/government.. Martin Luther King Jr. being the main one of course
@lifthz I think it's very dismissive to call the great Civil Rights Campaigners "House Negroes". The reason they were not as severely critical of White America than Malcolm is political expediency. They knew that if they kept their protests peaceful and well publicised the pressure would apply itself. A country that prides itself on freedom and democracy had to relent eventually. It was masterclass in shrewd, dignified protest. NOI had no plan for their seperate state idea, and it was a bad one
@LeBigMacDaddy You're looking at it one sided. I don't think Martin Luther King Jr was a house negro when he died... but I certainly think he was at some points during his movement. Anyway the real truth is that both the non-violent and black nationalist movements forced a change... but i'm going to have to say that I bet the black nationalist movement was much more respected in the hearts of white people at that time.
@lifthz Depends which black Nationalist movement you are talking about I guess. If you're talking about NOI then I would disagree. Other than Malcolm it seemed like a ramshackle organisation of dogmatists to me. Malcolm himself suggested that they were all words and no action. And let's face it, as they were advocating a seperate state solution, that takes a fair amount of action
@LeBigMacDaddy I would say that Malcolm himself was the most powerful force that came out of the NOI, but his ideas were heavily influenced by of course Elijah Mohammad... so again, you can't completely discredit that. Yes, Malcolm did further action such as his plan to take a case against the U.S. to the U.N. while that was a good move, I don't think the UN would've really been able to do anything to enforce any justice they would've decided on against the U.S....
@LeBigMacDaddy Also, when and where did Malcolm say they were "all talk no action". I don't recall. The action that the NOI wanted to take was proposed but they were simply ignored by the US government... therefore that automatically halts things, doesn't it?
@lifthz I'll have to skim Malcolm's autobiography, he definitely intimates that they were short on action. I'm sure Malcolm did believe NOI was opening his eyes at the time, but it was in fact closing his mind and silencing his voice. I'll give you an example. Elijah Mohammed apparently tried to stop Malcolm from delivering his 'the white man is the devil' type speeches because of the bad publicity. They also banned him from speaking publicly for 90 days. Do you see what I mean now?
@LeBigMacDaddy One more thing, you must concede that the NOI knew full well that they couldn't just tap Kennedy on the shoulder and say, "excuse me John, can we have a few states for all Afro Americans to live in, seperate from you whites?' How could they hope to get a state within a state when they hadn't the most basic Human Rights? It would have had to be fought for, at the cost of many lives. They only mentioned it to please crowds, which is another reason why I can't respect them
@LeBigMacDaddy They couldn't just come out and attack people though, it would obviously not solve the problem as they would be going up against a greater force of arms. It wouldn't be the wise thing to do outright. You have to respect that. COINTELPRO... the government certainly respected them enough to feel it necessary to infiltrate them and cause division between them. So if the government did that, they certainly respected them... I have to wonder why you don't respect them.
This movie has gotten Boule written ALL over it!
Sileni 1 week ago
Anyone know where this full debate can be found?
mjwatts1983 3 weeks ago
uncle tom ass nigga... Malcolm smashed him.
CDW757 1 month ago
@CDW757 ...except Malcolm himself later repudiated his separatist views saying that he was doing nothing more than blindly following Elijah Muhammad. Sorry but the NOI is based on the intellectually and morally bankrupt philosophies of the (at least) partially White charlatain W. Fard Muhammad.
DrDaystrom 1 month ago
@DrDaystrom Too bad Malcolm apologized to Elijah and said he still believes the NOI teachings on tape before he was murdered by the CIA. There also a recording of Malcolm meeting with the FBI to discuss money for inside information. Intellectually and morally bankrupt philosophies came from homosexuals like Rustin.
CDW757 1 month ago
Comment removed
22MRMafia 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
Bayard Rustin was a gay faggot, uncle tom nigger. FUCK HIM!!!
GTpanik 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GTpanik HA ignorant fool, you judge him on his sexual orientation and his color but are clueless about his beliefs and philosophy. Please and I mean this dearly, you don't deserve to be on youtube let alone the actual world.
22MRMafia 1 month ago
Malcolm X saw brotherhood in Mecca was because the whites accepted Islam he said if whites in America would accept Islam then it would be a different story he said whites have the attitude of boss he did not find that among the whites when he visited Mecca
mdna72 2 months ago
Rustin was also a spy for the government
mdna72 2 months ago
@mdna72 Rustin, the Nation of Islam, and the Ku Klux Klan were all being funded by the federal government. It was about instigation and destabilization.
indiglo1971 1 month ago in playlist Bayard Rustin
When a smaller company merges with a large company the small company takes on the values of the larger company and before you know it they don't exist anymore
mdna72 2 months ago
Comment removed
worldcoup 3 months ago
which dumb as post 1.48 min
post the whole thing or go fuck yourself
montataa 3 months ago
Basiaclly Bayard rustins view is to beg and cry to the white man for jobs and freedom while malcolm X view is to separate circulate own dollar among our own people because we are not and never have been in their interest in religion economy socially eternally....
code187G 4 months ago
I think what Rustin was saying and what I agree with is that the Civil Rights Movement was not just about liberating the Black man. It also had to be about Economic prosperity among all men and that included poor Whites
bluesboy25000 6 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@bluesboy25000 nah, It was started by blacks for blacks, and like ALL things that blacks start and create, the white man seeks to infiltrate, dilute, distort and, over time, claim and appropriate it from the black man.
rasheedzee 4 months ago
@bluesboy25000 That was exactly what was wrong with the civil rights movement. Every other social group was able to get all the benefits even though it was black people who took all the abuse.
snakejohnson 1 month ago
Intergration was a trick and lap dogs like Rustin made sure he added his piece to seeing blacks stay at the bottom of society...Seperation is the only option even unto today's more modern times...things are more worse than ever
carlosam16 7 months ago
@carlosam16 Put it into context though. Separation from what exactly?
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn A Seperate society from white people period. Their system, laws, culture, ways, language, land, schools, business....etc in other words EVERYTHING...Does this help?
carlosam16 6 months ago
@carlosam16 yeah, thats a flawed, narrow minded way of thinking. even malcolm realized the fallacy of that mindset in the end.
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn Cant see how flawed that is, when the best societies we produced DID NOT INCLUDE WHITE PEOPLE. We, black people, are taught in public schools everything but our real accomplishments in this society. From the negro league, black thriving businesses, Blackwallstreet, Rosewood, etc, I can go on and on and on...There were towns and cities we founded that we made successful doing for self...Only for angry white mobs to come and kill innocent children, rape our women and put us into Jim Crow.
carlosam16 6 months ago
@carlosam16 The flaw in your logic is that you see it as only black and white. There are people of every color in every nation being oppressed. And some of those people are white as well. You can't disregard them. I understand that the current system is flawed and needs to be changed. Separation from that is needed but in this day and age we need everyone black, white, brown, whatever to unite if we want to truly bring about change.
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn It is more and righteousness and evil play, but at the same time its better to get your home intact first. Charity starts at home, and we need time as a people to get ourselves together and then reach out. Involving everybody to start makes this process harder to do.
carlosam16 6 months ago
@carlosam16 I agree. My thing is don't condemn the entire race of white folk, just the rich elites. Poor people in generally need to come together.
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn I am not condeming anyone, I am just saying we need to do our own thing period. As for poor whites thats a crock because many of them are the executors of wicked agendas...case in point KKK
carlosam16 6 months ago
@carlosam16 Sweeping generalization fam. Where's the proof? I'm not saying there's a whopping amount of poor whites but I'm saying they're there and they should be down for the cause as well. I'm all about raising the collective consciousness with people of color but we can't turn around and shit on someone simply bc of racial differences when economically they might be in the same situation.
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn Sweeping generalizaiontion...lol Have you heard of slavery and if so, WHO WAS THE PEOPLE THAT RETURNED RUN AWAY SLAVES? KKK...AKA AS POOR WHITE TRASH. THE hated black people and often killed massa's merchandise which they did not appreciate. Yes, there are some and I mean some as a few white brothers down for the cause, no doubt, and NOI backs their interest, but they MUST be righteous. It is time blacks look out for themselves then reach out is my point. We always looking for a white
carlosam16 6 months ago
@imALLn to go with us or we aint going. Believe me, I am not racial or racist, I have too many whites in my family (by marriage not blood line that I know of) that were ok, but I am not defending them to the lord of the worlds, they can defend themselves. I have compassion to all of humanity, but we can work together, but seperation is for us, to get out down trodden turned around. Yes, our oppressor may be the same but CHARITY STARTS IN YOUR HOME FIRST. Thats why we in the mess we in today.
carlosam16 6 months ago
@carlosam16 I dig that. Essentially we're both talking about decolonization of the mind. This is more of a conscious struggle than it is a physical one. Now I want to make it clear I'm not trying to debate for integration and what not. When it comes to 'separation', what I do agree with is separation from ignorance but I what I don't agree with is a physical separation from everything. We shouldn't pack up and move out we should regain and assert power and effectively revolutionize the system.
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn We MUST SEPERATE. And yes, we need to find and keep are righteous mind, but we must relocate our BEHIND. Black folks is all too happy to keep letting slave master provide as little as possible for us and we do nothing for ourselves. WE need to control out destiny whether in America or otherwise that the US needs to fund and let us heal ourselves and go on about our business. Staying in a society we dont control will never alter our current underclass state. complete seperation, only.
carlosam16 6 months ago
@imALLn Malcom only flaw was joining with his open enemy against his teacher that made him the man everyone knew and admired. Black people will be forced to do it again considering this country cant pay what they owe us for slavery and jim crow. We have tried everything and now a black president that is making things even harder for blacks even tho he is not doing it intentionally. Seperation is the only answer as its mentioned in the bible and qu ran. You cant argue TRUTH...
carlosam16 6 months ago
@carlosam16 Truth is his teacher and his organization conspired with the white man to get Brother Malcolm killed. That was counter productive to the movement and I could never rock with an organization like that. If you believe that Malcolm's flaw was leaving the nation and that the civil rights leaders Malcolm began to work with were the enemies then my brother you are lost. Give me some TRUTH because all I see is ignorance.
imALLn 6 months ago
@imALLn Also, the Hon Elijah Muhammad did not plot with no white man to kill Malcom X. This is ignorance on your part because if I was alive then I would have tried to kill Malcom x myself. The man was a hypocrite and went against a righteous man because he began to listen to the white man and the devil make him deviate from what was right and LIE on a holy man. Yes, Hon Elijah M had more than one wife, so what? Did not all the prophets and messengers? Malcom lost his mind and when he found it
carlosam16 6 months ago
@imALLn it was too late and he was killed by his open enemy. Nobody from the NOI touched Malcom X despite what he had done and he deserved to die. I am not his judge but the Qu ran is clear on this matter. You dont turn on somebody that raised you up from nothing without searching for truth and handling what took place in a righteous manner. Leaving the HOn Elijah M was a bold yet STUPID MOVE! As history teaches and all he has a streets and some schools named after him that only talk about life
carlosam16 6 months ago
@imALLn life after the NOI, which IS NOT what made him who he is. Black people need to cling the the tree and not a branch from the tree, because if a branch breaks you go down with the branch, but if you are attached to the tree you will on...
carlosam16 6 months ago
Malcolm's the One with a mind there, the others are jokes.
monptii 7 months ago
Malcolm was gay so I'm sure he sucked off Rustin and fucked him bareback after this debate. Nothing better than seeing a raging gay man debating an in the closet nutcase. Steamy!
EugenicsIsTheAnswer 7 months ago
Rustin had a hidden agenda.
MrBigpopsonswoll 7 months ago
Well Rustin was Dead Wrong.. Malcolm was... Right!!! Integration is Killing Us as a Race of people..White people will never share the wealth with us... bye the way,,Rustin was a Homo Too..It time for people to do for self....Integration didn't work in the pass. It willn't work in the future'''
TechCore 7 months ago
Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X were right. Generation after decade after decade our ppl were content to say at least today blah blah & thats exactly how it has stayed, 'at least', thats why when the 10% of our ppl do get some riches they parlay it into the worlds bank instead of creating our own independant companies, they don't see themselves in themselves. How can u expect to beg the mastah to move in thier house & think u r going sleep in their bed, we will forever be living in the basement
nothinelse2seehere1 7 months ago
@teresadallen Very wise!!
AfricansAgainstObama 7 months ago
whites and their history are the worse thing that has happen to the world, they need to go back in the caves so we can have world peace
lexxisx 7 months ago
@lexxisx
don't be like that, truth be told, all of them are/were not responsible
DivinelyMochaDipped 7 months ago
Rustin's amazing; I agree.
(and I'm a Canadian white male)
Lots of strange racism in these comments.
Though there's more potent and swift methods to initiate societal change, societies change best gradually. Part of MLK's methods and civil disobedience and Progressivism.
=3
TAz69x 7 months ago
0:25
You guys see that white man grinning? I kno what he is thinking. He is thinking in his head.
Thats a good nigger talk to sense into your nigger people and keep us on top.
Malcom X on the other hand was preeching and debating actual monumental stuff things that made you think and realize the shitty ass place we live in.
YoungBlackStud95 8 months ago
@Peace34877 i agree 100%
curtisjones400 8 months ago
Rustin is/was sickening!
kwahjuo 8 months ago
This dude was a effing child molester. How can you say a man that messed with teenage males and said blacks can't do things alone is a hero? We are still doing it alone. This dude was a criminal that had he messed with my son I would have shot him twice in the head. A pediphile a black hero. Perve lover. You should die.
moneyaat 9 months ago
any race or human who tries to rule the world is anti-christ and they hate to see Jesus come back to show who is BOSS
1012CRAIG 9 months ago
Malcolm X died a muslim when he reached the truth and died knowing the fact he will die speaking the truth.
iftawan37613 9 months ago
Must be known the meanings of tolerance, co-exist, peace, love, respecting Human dignity and multi-culture structure earlier than we imagine. The matter goes far than it for reasons visible and invisible must truth come out and respect the communities, Malcom X Rest in Peace on memory of you and dead of criminal Osama bin laden May.01.2011 . The matter required more editions and investigations toward secure America and save Human dignity regardless anything. Rest in peace Malcom X.
PrinceHassanBee 10 months ago
malcolm saw the future!!
kidjeter2 10 months ago 4
any1 have the link for the whole debate?
bostoncommonterry 10 months ago
Bayard Rustin was a known, charged, and sentenced pedifile and sexual deviant.
sinistavoicez 10 months ago
Bayard Rustin was possessed with a white man spirit the way he was talking. He is a fool and an embarrassment to black people. He was a trained monkey talking that black people can't govern ourselves without help. Get's on my damn nerves the way that told blacks to not fight back but only fight with "peace". Blacks were supposed to fight physically back and we would be owning way more than what we do in America!
crazydaysful 10 months ago
Malcolm understood the need for African people to be strong and independent. How can we be of value to the human family when we're still asking for a quarter as opposed to learning how to build a bakery and make our own bread? People like Rustin continue to cripple African people with false coalitions which weaken us more.
BSCI70 10 months ago 2
Malcolm post nation of islam wouldve done a better job debating malcolm pre-conversion to mainstram islam than Bayard Rustin. Although Rustin was an amazing in himself, Malcolm simply had a gift for debate.
africanfromafrica 11 months ago
sure does sound like he could be. heard he liked whitemen.
veeseee128 11 months ago
@veeseee128 and white men liked him. stfu, please.
TheChocolateOlive 10 months ago
rustin was a faggot?
veeseee128 11 months ago
@veeseee128
Yeah he was a faggot that was CENTRAL to one of the largest non-violent protests in American history, so why don't you show some respect and stop acting like a bigot.
1978Autodidact 11 months ago 2
@veeseee128 he wasnt a faggot, he was not a bundle of sticks used for burning, he was a homosexual.
UtopiaMinor666 10 months ago
Comment removed
TheChocolateOlive 10 months ago
@TheChocolateOlive you stupid.
veeseee128 10 months ago
NO DAMN GREAT DEBATE!!! MALCOM AT HIM ALIVE!!!!
DavidOwenWard 11 months ago
Suck up's!! Now you tell me TODAY what do you think about Malcom X!!? the problem is the world of today has become a world of suck ups!! just what illuminati brits wanted!!?
Ebdan88 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork, don't you think Rustin just meant that in the context of an integrated society, cooperation was necessary? I can't believe he would say that it was not possible for blacks to self-govern; it's just that he was committed to the idea of integration.
AJmn71 1 year ago 14
@AJmn71 completely agree with your take on Rustin's perspective. He was referring to American Society, not a segregated society within America, or any society within the world. And he is right: the world is a better place when we acknowledge the strengths of ALL citizens at the table - as well as their inherent equality. We are only human.
taramichelucci 1 year ago
@AJmn71 Im saying he was on the wrong side. I know what he meant and it was bull, and the man was a enemy of Black Nationalism, that's why he argued with Malcolm X. Blacks been cooperating since they where brought to america, so think about that, what was he really trying to say?
jaronnewyork 10 months ago
@AJmn71 He was basically a uncle tom.
YoungBlackStud95 8 months ago
@AJmn71 Bayard Rustin is right that it can't be done alone. His mistake was in thinking it could be done at all. The white American is incapable of transformation and with the largest prison population (half Black) it continually proves that it is incapable of transformation.
For some, it may have been unclear as to who was correct but it is now resoundingly clear. Malcolm was right. Whites will never truly integrate because they will not give reparations which are the key to real integration.
atlien991 7 months ago 2
@atlien991 Big talk, REAL talk, and the key word you mentioned was Reparations. There are some people who tell Me that I forget I have white blood in me because my dad is Jamaican, and my mother is an English White woman. But I ask them what has that got to do with the truth since truth has no colour as much as 1 + 1 is 2 ? The reasons why europeans AND Arabs refuse to take responsiblity for their crimes is because they are racist , and they don't wanna pay Reparations.
truthhitmanisback 7 months ago
the more time passes, the more we realize marcus garvey and Malcolm x was right. We integrate while behind our back they control Africa and the rest of the world. They protect theirs we should protect ours. I bet they wont integrate revenue from diamonds that are from Africa. I bet they wont leave Africa to be controlled by Africans. I bet they wont even let us control the schools that Africans occupy around the world. Steal our land and then charge us to live in it. ARE YOU CRAZY!! COMMON SENSE
ironlionmike 1 year ago 26
@ironlionmike Real talk!
glong86 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Kumtekmeon Come on small steps first, we won't get any type of government of our own if we can't have some type of economic control in our own communities. You stated before that it's impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. Those Jewish, Chinese and indian communities are a form of separatism, where are the diverse stores in their communities? Are you saying those communities are unpreductive?
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
Comment removed
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
They are both great men. Latter on Malcolm saw things more Rustin way. Malcolm started to believe it could be beneficial if other races, religions, & cultures can work together.
toni444444444444 1 year ago
@toni444444444444 You are absolutely right, the trip to Mecca changed his views of separatism, however he still stood for blacks developing and supporting their own communities.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
THIS CHUMP WAS OUT TO SELL BLACKS DOWN THE RIVER FROM THE START, AS YOU CAN SEE THIS PUNK WAS ALL ABOUT GAY RIGHTS, HE NEVER GAVE A DAME ABOUT HIS OWN RACE. HOMO LIFE STYLE WILL LEAD TO THE DESTRUCTION OF BLACK PEOPLE
LARONY24 1 year ago
@LARONY24 You are such an IGNORAMUS to make such a retarded statement. If it wasn't for Bayard Rustin, The success of the Civil Rights Movement would NOT have been possible. It's a SHAME that you are here attacking the man who TAUGHT Martin Luther King non-violent protest and organized the the march to Washington. You are ungrateful and full of HATRED that you are willing to dismiss the great efforts of a man simply because he's gay!
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
Trying to get Malcom to give in to the devil. Hunam Society?? With 40 million slaves in her mist?
DavidOwenWard 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Punk ass racist motherfucker
AlcoholicSemenStain 1 year ago
malcolm could not be co-opted. period.
Tekno2012 1 year ago
Somebody should have popped that four-eyed nigger in the face and sell him back to the faggot Jews.
godlytroller 1 year ago
@Th3Individual Oh one more thing (and also not to be rude), your statement "if white people hadn't behaved like the devil" betrays exactly the kind of mentality I think needs to be challenged. It's as if white people are one living breathing organism bound together and responsible for the actions of each other. I think we all need to stop thinking with our skin tone, stop looking at each other through our ethnicity and realise that but for melanin their are no differences between races. Amen
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@Th3Individual You don't need to explain his rationale. I've read his autobiography and I'm sure if half of the male members of my family were killed by members of a certain race I'd feel exactly the same towards that race. I wouldn't dream of criticising Malcolm for that. My problem is with the hypocrite known as Elijah Mohammed
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@Th3Individual It is violence... The defense IS violence, Malcolm recognized this... it's certainly NOT Non-violence... that's why the U.S. changed the name of the military from Department Of War to Department of Defense. White folks have always been violent, the people in control now just want to fool everyone into thinking that it's defense now so everyone can be friendly but then stab each other in the back.
lifthz 1 year ago
@Th3Individual Ah... of course they were not vioent, but ttheir phiosophy was vilence if necessary... espeially Malcolm after he left NOI. The white folks have always been violent... always...
lifthz 1 year ago
Bayard Rustin is a nasty sell-out that doesn't know anything about himself.
Rustin is so confused and Malcolm had the right examples, because Malcolm inspired us to fight our causes.
Rustin was just Uncle Sam's glove puppet and Malcolm was inspired us to be freed to organizes our own rights and our own power structure outside our Motherly continent of Africa.
Rustin the failure and Malcolm the courageous winner.
peasah2005 1 year ago
Comment removed
peasah2005 1 year ago
I think it's worth pointing out in relevance to this debate that when I perform a sexual act with a girl, I am quite partial to poking a cheeky little finger (pinky or possibly middle finger if I'm feeling adventurous) up the bumhole, or indulging in a jaunty ass slap. I recommend you do the same...
videogamenostalgia 1 year ago
Even though I didn't agree w/Malcom X's position in favor of segregation, I could definitely understand it! Things were crazy racist when Iwas growing up and I was born in 67' My family had a "turn the other cheek" mentality, but growing up in those times and being a generation behind my elders we (young folks) always loved the way Malcom would say things straight out (which is considered politically incorrect today) So...it's segregation was something blacks felt we may as well do.
atlasshrugged2u 1 year ago
They were not ready for you brother Malcolm
awayoutmovement 1 year ago
wow MelcomeX would be happy to know that Obama is the first Black pres.
Warriorcheif1 1 year ago
thats the problem with blacks back then they didnt let blks stand on thire own 2 feet they even said blacks wasnt cappable of leading this country now we got obama so bayard rustin could go fuck himself back then if i was at that debate
buggeazy102 1 year ago
@buggeazy102 The appointment of Barack Obama as our commander in chief was largely contingent upon his ability to connect with white voters. So Rustin's ideologies are still applicable or relevant.
lifestraight 1 year ago
@lifestraight maan blacks have the ability do whatever white can do and better if you give them the chance
buggeazy102 1 year ago
@buggeazy102 Of course. I don't disagree with that.
lifestraight 1 year ago
I can't accept in my heart the fact the Bayard said that modernization and socialization the negro can not do alone. i believe he was brainwashed...as well as any other man that believes that blacks can't govern a society without whites..
jaronnewyork 1 year ago 18
@jaronnewyork
Anybody can govern a society. Blacks would probably do just as shittier a job as whites have. Government selects for scum.
QwidgyboMan 1 year ago
@QwidgyboMan I don't know what your trying to say, i dont even think you understand my point. to clear this up let me say this, i said nothing about the god awful job that whites are doing in government. And again i can't respect anyone who believes that one race cannot develop on their own.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork
Rustin did not say it's impossible to develop a society as one race. He was speaking pragmatically about what ought to happen to achieve the best result in the US. Malcolm X's and your position comes from paranoia and racism IMO.
QwidgyboMan 1 year ago
@QwidgyboMan your hearing and reading what you want, i didn't say it's impossible, so you go on and have your own little debt with yourself. your just trying to put words in my mouth because your argument is baselesss and irrelevent from what im saying.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork Agreed.
maumau68 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork Why not say the black man can't do it alone? I'd say the white man can't do it alone either! Right up front, Rustin says you need the best minds, black and white.
ApolloWasReal 1 year ago
Comment removed
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
Comment removed
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@ApolloWasReal I wouldn't say the white man nor the black man can't do it alone. At the time of this debate life for blacks was not as it is today, what malcolm was promoting wasn't only segregation but for blacks to have a pride in ourselves. Begging for equal rights shows how helpless blacks were, no pride at all. How can a child build themself up when they never get to see the true potentials of their people. Look at the outcome, we don't even own stores in our own neighborhoods.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork Bayard was speaking to the development of America....The greatness we know to be America is a result not of the "white man" but from coming together of the greatest minds and hearts of many cultures and groups of people. Bayard was arguing that for America to grow to be an even greater country we can't exclude whites from the table nor can whites exclude blacks!
my1freedom 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork You have taken Rustin's position out of context. If blacks did not have support from the whites, the success of the Civil Rights movement would not be possible. If women did not have the support of Men, women's right would not have been possible, AND if gays don't have the support of straight their full victory will not be possible. It's not a matter that blacks can't govern a nation, BUT they need the help of others. So far black nations are the poorest due to inner corruptions.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon Civil Rights Movemnet ? You must not care or not know what the true fight is. All the civil rights movement did was give weak legal rights and non-whites still get the short end of the stick . We wanted and still want equal human rights, because of pseudo intellectuals like Rustin Black people aren't considered strong. And black nations are the weakess now because they let whites infiltrate their structure with that dirty religion, blacks were doing just fine before that.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork Where is the proof that blacks were doing just fine? In any event, Rustin was a practical man in that he disquieted all foolish notions that blacks within America could govern themselves. He recognized that NOT all men were the same. There is good and bad in every man, and the uniting of all races was more effective than the separation. Blacks are now in control of many nations, YET unable to take their people out of poverty, because of SELFISH GREED. That's not Rustin's legacy!
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon Are you doubting me? Look up the kingdom of Kuba, or better yet just look up the history of africa, it's plain as day that europeans came down to africa with imperialism. Those black nations you speak of where never controlled by Blacks since like 1400's. They have been and still are under the control of the Royalty of Europe. And the church. They all follow the European governing structure.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork I'm aware that there used to be Great KIngdoms existing in Africa, before the penetration of the whites, However, the idea that everyone was in unity and working for the betterment of ALL tribes is not true. In fact, that disunity supported the slave trade. Unfortunately, they did not estimate the greed of the whites, who then overthrew those Kingdoms. I was speaking to the situation existing here where blacks are the minority and so NEEDED allies among whites to effect change.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon As you should notice they didn't accomplished that change you speak of. The only way to get that type of change is to stand on your own two feet, then they will have to treat you as equals, not crawling on your patelles begging to have equal rights with folks that see you as 3 fifths of a human being.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork, Change is a process and there will always be injustice, BUT the important thing is that much was done to allow blacks today to have a more level ground on which to fight. Their failure to seize the opportunity and to make good of the legacy of those before, are not the results of MLK or Rustin. In fact it is this 'Black Pride' factor that have held many blacks from progressing, because they continue to see everyone else as the enemy, and this is their own demise.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon No don't think there has been any true 'Black Pride' since the Harlem Renaissance. What i'm saying is there is a direct psychological link between the actions of those black leaders you hold in high esteem and the blacks today that fail to seize these opportunity you believe was achieved.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork I do recall that there was a falling away from Rustin's ideology from groups like the Black Panther that wanted to do the opposite. So it's not like What we have today is a continuation of MLK/Rustin's philosophy. All that was hijacked by others who thought Black Pride was about being militant, which only turned out to regress the progress made. What we have today is the result of that opposition. I too believe that persons have a right to separate themselves, form their own state;
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork I know the whites during imperialism, had caused great psycho-social damages to the blacks, as well as leaving a legacy of poverty and political instability, BUT the fact is for the most part blacks are now heads of these nations, YET you find that not much is being done to uplift their fellow men. What we hear is a high level of corruption among politicians, and no accountability. Are we to continue blaming the white man for the selfish acts of these black political leaders?
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon I'm not going to sit here and defend no politicians, and im not blaming the white man for trying to become the world power. I blame weak minded activist like Bayard who get access to speak two thousands of blacks turn around an use that stage to demolish black pride and support the white mans agenda. What i see here in america is alot of black ghettos and no black owned stores within them. I see parents with no goals because they spawn from generations of pushovers.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork How can you accuse a PROUD black man for demolishing black pride? Bayard, in a time of harsh racism and social obstacles, persevered to get an education AND to take a stand in what he believes in, which is freedom for all. To dismiss the myth that blacks had a chance to rule themselves within America does not prevent blacks from pushing ahead. There is a continued blaming of the white man. IF blacks can recognize that the white man did them wrong, WHY can't they see their solution?
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon Him a proud black man... in my book there are three types, there are the Marcus Garvey's the W.E.B. Dubois' and the followers. Being the Marcus Garvey type that I am, I don't see Bayard as a proud Black Man, i see him as a tool in the aid on dismantling true Black Pride.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork I applaud the efforts of Marcus Garvey who was able to follow his ideology,and encouraged blacks to own businesses, to feel proud about their heritage etc, BUT I do not support any message of separatism. I would not feel comfortable living in an all Jew community, or an all white community, or an all black community, or an all gay community. For me there is nothing more rewarding than to see the coming together of all peoples - Isn't that what 'Heaven' is about?
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon People should have the god giving right to be separate from any persons they choose to be separate from. As long as there's people that want different ways of living there will always be separation, you have religion and superstition to thank for that. I do support it separatism for those who prefer it.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork But by separating oneself in a racially diverse country is unproductive. What blacks should've focused on was to to enrich themselves with as much knowledge and skills, thus putting themselves in a position to lead. What the sense of separating oneself IF you lack the resources to produce? We are all different in our religious, political, and even mythical beliefs, and it is these differences that UNITE us and bring stability. So even with separatism there will exist differences.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon If that were true, in ancient Khemet(Egypt), Africans would not, alone, have developed the knowledge and skill to teach and civilize the first white Europeans to call themselves Greeks, the Macedonians...and yet, they did teach them. As Diodorus Sicilus wrote hundreds of years before Herodotus lived, "When we first entered Egypt, there were no other foreigners there to be found." The Ionian mathematician, Thales, was one of the first white Greeks to be wholly educated in Africa.
Taharqa999 1 year ago
@Taharqa999 I at no time said blacks OR any other group cannot govern themselves. My point is that it is impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. The Egypt experience is not the USA experience.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon I don't see that, I see china towns in ever major city, little indian communities as well. How can you say that being racially diverse in this country is unproductive? Jewish communities, muslum communities all over the place and they are all very productive, with low crime rates.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork, Yes there are China towns existing, but they don't function outside of the wider society, in that they don't have their own government, laws, trade agreements, constitution etc. They are simply a reflection of our diversity. Their denseness has nothing to do with separatism, but rather cultural identity. So my POINT about racial diversity wasn't to say our diverse races are unproductive, but that the desire of one to separate itself in a wealth of diversity to be so.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
Comment removed
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Kumtekmeon Come on small steps first, we won't get any type of government of our own if we can't have some type of economic control in our own communities. You stated before that it's impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. Those Jewish, Chinese and indian communities are a form of separatism, where are the diverse stores in their communities? Are you saying those communities are unpreductive?
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Come on small steps first, we won't get any type of government of our own if we can't have some type of economic control in our own communities. You stated before that it's impractical in a multiracial country to seek separatism and exclusivism. Those Jewish, Chinese and indian communities are a form of separatism, where are the diverse stores in their communities? Are you saying those communities are unpreductive?
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Kumtekmeon I don't see that, I see china towns in ever major city, little indian communities as well. How can you say that being racially diverse in this country is unproductive? Jewish communities, muslim communities all over the place and they are all very productive, with low crime rates.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@Kumtekmeon People should have the god giving right to be separate from any persons they choose to be separate from. As long as there's people that want different ways of living there will always be separation, you have religion and superstition to thank for that. I do support separatism for those who prefer it, I'm not against mixing it up but it should be a choice made by the individual.
jaronnewyork 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork instead you find blacks selling out each other for selfish gains. Allowing guns and drugs to infiltrate their communities, which ended up destroying their own people. Everybody knows right from wrong. Why is it that some make it out of the project, while others remain? It takes hard work to make it in life. And as far as I see, there is a LACK of cohesion among blacks. Bayard did what he had to do. The story has begun, it's up to this generation to decide how it concludes.
Kumtekmeon 1 year ago
@jaronnewyork That's not his point though. In America there are blacks and whites; he was advocating unity and fraternity.
smileyfacemug 10 months ago
@smileyfacemug what are you talking about, malcolm X stood for unity and fraternity as well, so you miss the point.
jaronnewyork 10 months ago
@jaronnewyork wat
smileyfacemug 9 months ago
@jaronnewyork Your absolutely right! Blacks should rule every place on Earth! Just look at how well Hait, Liberia, Somalia, Ivory Coast, Congo etc turned out!
Shriner66 9 months ago
@Shriner66 Ok ur a racist that believes that Blacks have no rights to anything so there's no use in trying to change your bias mind. And from what i see WHITES are the ones that think they should rule the Earth, you hate any person that isn't white or of your culture. Anything truthful you seek to discredit through manipulation. And the sad thing is most of you don't realize it, others don't care because your not on the recieving end of white supremacy.
jaronnewyork 9 months ago
@Shriner66 Thanks for letting me know how you felt about my comment, but i can't solve your problem, and i don't know what you could have hoped to achieve making your comment.
jaronnewyork 9 months ago
@Shriner66 " . . . look at how well Hait (sic), Liberia, Somalia, Ivory Coast, Congo etc turned out!"
Each country you've listed has a history of colonialism and European dominance both of which are the true culprits with respect how each has fared both politically & economically. The Congo? Belgium raped that country for generations, then the CIA assassinated Patrice Lumumba, its first elected leader. Haiti? Again, CIA ousted Aristide installing a dictator. And on and on. You're an ass.
bapyou 9 months ago
@Shriner66
How ignorant! Each of these countries was raped by white oppressors.
Haiti declared independence and Jefferson refused to recognize it instead of helping them. Poor Haitian were forced by France to pay millions of Dollars "reparation" to the colonials for the damage the independence war caused France. In recent decades US has toppled Haiti's govts that implemented policies that favored people instead of US corporations (Aristide), and installed puppet dictators (Papa Doc, Baby Doc).
waqasusmans 9 months ago
@Shriner66
Congo's 1st President Patrice Lumumba was taken out by US and European colonial powers 10 weeks after election because the mineral resources of Congo were too precious to be left to an independent nationalist leader. Lumumba was later assassinated. The puppet dictator installed by the US and Belgium was Mobutu who continued to rule with an iron fist for decades.
Belgium apologized to Congo in Feb 2002.
2006 US documents show assassination plans. US never apologized (did it ever?).
waqasusmans 9 months ago
"...Trying to get Malcolm to see that it is a world community, a human community, a family in the United States." ~ 1:10, --- are you kidding me? A family in the US? They were lynching blacks, bombing black churches, and assassinating black leaders, and even killed Martin, Mr. "Love the Enemy and bake them cookies."
HeNicerThanMe 1 year ago 4
@HeNicerThanMe indeed.
yessir. dat kool-aid they be brainwashing us wit is mighty powerful.
ambelle 1 year ago
@HeNicerThanMe Jibberish!
justfine77777 1 year ago
If you want to buy Brother Outsider: The Life of Bayard Rustin on DVD, come visit TLAgay.com where it’ll always be on sale! :D
djcobblestone 1 year ago 7
@djcobblestone Them honkeys are sure laughing in amazement at this dumb
ass nigga. There is a white women so amazed that she has to cover her mouth
and hope that no one sees,or reads her mind as she laughs at this clown, this
perfect nigga, that you dont even have to pet or feed. its awesome!! Brother
Malcolm sets them straight though.
tonyuptown69 1 year ago
Obama is not a true black leader, he is an imitation of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. combined... the ultimate house negro. I think most black people in the country today are uneducated if they really think Obama represents blacks. Yes we are proud that a black guy made it... but this guy has done nothing so far that is in effort to supporting blacks in general.
lifthz 1 year ago
@babyfods18 Americans had a choice. They voted for President Obama. Iowa is not a bastion of black or "mixed race" persons. It is filled with white folks who voted for Obama, boosting his presidential campaign during the primaries which ultimately got him elected. Your reference to Obama being of mixed race and not black, suggests that you are too hung-up on race. Don't be a hater, don't believe everything Al Sharpton says and take a basic English writing course. It will make you less sad. Adios
pagpag05 1 year ago
"The problem cannot be stated in terms of black and white". Malcolm eventually came round to this idea. I think Malcolm's intellect was shackled for far too long by the race myths of the Nation of Islam (as religions tend to do to a man), but one good thing that came out of that militant mentality was the brutal way he would shine a burning light on the injustices and tyranny that black people in America were subjected to. Something that the Civil Rights movement didn't do forcibly enough
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@LeBigMacDaddy Without the NOI he would not have had that intellect, so you can't really say anything about Malcolm without first saying something good about the NOI. Secondly, the only reason the civil rights movement didn't point out the injustice that whites did enough is because of the house negros who were praised and are held higher than Malcolm X by the media/government.. Martin Luther King Jr. being the main one of course
lifthz 1 year ago
@lifthz I think it's very dismissive to call the great Civil Rights Campaigners "House Negroes". The reason they were not as severely critical of White America than Malcolm is political expediency. They knew that if they kept their protests peaceful and well publicised the pressure would apply itself. A country that prides itself on freedom and democracy had to relent eventually. It was masterclass in shrewd, dignified protest. NOI had no plan for their seperate state idea, and it was a bad one
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@LeBigMacDaddy You're looking at it one sided. I don't think Martin Luther King Jr was a house negro when he died... but I certainly think he was at some points during his movement. Anyway the real truth is that both the non-violent and black nationalist movements forced a change... but i'm going to have to say that I bet the black nationalist movement was much more respected in the hearts of white people at that time.
lifthz 1 year ago
@lifthz Depends which black Nationalist movement you are talking about I guess. If you're talking about NOI then I would disagree. Other than Malcolm it seemed like a ramshackle organisation of dogmatists to me. Malcolm himself suggested that they were all words and no action. And let's face it, as they were advocating a seperate state solution, that takes a fair amount of action
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@LeBigMacDaddy I would say that Malcolm himself was the most powerful force that came out of the NOI, but his ideas were heavily influenced by of course Elijah Mohammad... so again, you can't completely discredit that. Yes, Malcolm did further action such as his plan to take a case against the U.S. to the U.N. while that was a good move, I don't think the UN would've really been able to do anything to enforce any justice they would've decided on against the U.S....
lifthz 1 year ago
@LeBigMacDaddy Also, when and where did Malcolm say they were "all talk no action". I don't recall. The action that the NOI wanted to take was proposed but they were simply ignored by the US government... therefore that automatically halts things, doesn't it?
lifthz 1 year ago
@lifthz I'll have to skim Malcolm's autobiography, he definitely intimates that they were short on action. I'm sure Malcolm did believe NOI was opening his eyes at the time, but it was in fact closing his mind and silencing his voice. I'll give you an example. Elijah Mohammed apparently tried to stop Malcolm from delivering his 'the white man is the devil' type speeches because of the bad publicity. They also banned him from speaking publicly for 90 days. Do you see what I mean now?
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@LeBigMacDaddy One more thing, you must concede that the NOI knew full well that they couldn't just tap Kennedy on the shoulder and say, "excuse me John, can we have a few states for all Afro Americans to live in, seperate from you whites?' How could they hope to get a state within a state when they hadn't the most basic Human Rights? It would have had to be fought for, at the cost of many lives. They only mentioned it to please crowds, which is another reason why I can't respect them
LeBigMacDaddy 1 year ago
@LeBigMacDaddy They couldn't just come out and attack people though, it would obviously not solve the problem as they would be going up against a greater force of arms. It wouldn't be the wise thing to do outright. You have to respect that. COINTELPRO... the government certainly respected them enough to feel it necessary to infiltrate them and cause division between them. So if the government did that, they certainly respected them... I have to wonder why you don't respect them.
lifthz 1 year ago