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From: exposedatheists
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  • Craig is a good speaker in the sense a travelling salesmen selling snake oil to cure cancer is a good speaker. Causing, even partially, the worst possible misry for everyone is immoral. Allowing the worst possible misery for everyone to continue or atleast not attempting to end it is immoral. Enoying it is immoral. How hard is that to understand?

  • @BattleshipAgincount (also know as LizarsLeaps - but not far enough) "therefore mission successfully accomplished!. :)"

    Thank you for proving that you are a desperate lying heap of shit and a coward. You may fuck off now.

  • @LizardLeaps (AKA BattleshipAgincount)

    Wow - you are a most pathetic troll - using the name BattleshipAgincount as a sock-puppet. What do you hope to accomplish?

    I can understand you giving up on rational debate, being the vacuous and deceitful bottom-feeder that you are but don't you know that every time you lie for Jesus it makes Him sad.

    It's bad enough to lie for selfish reasons but to do so in the name of Jehovah... well there are commandments about that, right?

  • @Terncote

    "Wow - you are a most pathetic troll - using the name BattleshipAgincount as a sock-puppet. What do you hope to accomplish?"

    Well, I got a most pathetic troll and proven logically bankrupt, bold faced liar, and hypocritical buffoon in you to respond for starters, therefore mission successfully accomplished!. :)

    Now please hold your applause and just throw money. 'Lol!

  • Is this put up as comedy?

  • Am I the only one who thinks that he sounds like Microsoft Sam at the end of his words

  • This man does not seem to have the basic education in clear thinking that my 8 year old has. Weird.

  • yawn just rehashing the moral argument...... seriously this is the best the number 1 Christian apologist in the world has?

  • Pardon me, but FUCK THIS CUNT.

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  • Atheist conveniently extrapolate from evidence with a biased presupposition of material existence having come about by itself. They could never know if existence is the result of natural or Supernatural causation.

    When evidence appears to confirm their presupposition, they neglect to reason that an unfathomably powerful God capable of creating everything would not only supersede the physical laws of his own creation, but wouldn't have had to abide by said laws to have created physical existence.

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  • @BattleshipAgincount (AKA: Lizardleaps)

    Yeah, you ARE a very creepy person for having so little in life to do but impersonate someone on youtube for the sole purpose of lying your ass off even more. You are a very disturbed individual and should stop trusting in your god, as it's poisoned your social and mental health to the point you actually believe in your delusions more than your religious values.

    If you WERE a real theist, you would stop this and apologize for all your lies.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "Yeah, you ARE a very creepy person for having so little in life to do but impersonate someone on youtube for the sole purpose of lying your ass off even more"

    Well, then by your same standards and logic this would apply to you except that you ARE doing a very convincing impersonation of yourself. :)

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    Nonsense, as I'm the happiest and most well adjusted person that I know and I can vouch for this. 'Lol!

    And since your delusional, mentally/emotionally disturbed and severely dysfunctional persona, etc. is best accounted for because of your alleged disbelief in God, I'm going to keep trusting and beleving, thank you!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "If you WERE a real theist, you would stop this and apologize for all your lies"

    If you WERE a real atheist then you should be happy that I'm doing what you think and alleged that I'm doing, because then I would be just doing what you always do which is to lie.

  • @BattleshipAgincount (AKA: Lizardleaps)

    Enough lies! Either switch to your original username, or get out of here!

    If you have to LIE to win an argument (or continue losing), then you openly confirm that you don't have a case! You are a liar and a hypocritical asshole!

    I'm done talking to you! GO THE FUCK AWAY!

  • @12Ominous

    Very true. As a matter of fact, what so many gullible atheist don't realize is that they put their faith, hope, and trust in pseudoscience fiction fantasies under the guise of science.

    They wishfully hope for things that could never be know as true, like what was the actual cause of the inception of the universe and living organisms.

    Ironically, so many atheist believe that reason isn't necessary, but how could one reason without reason and why would they even care without reason?

  • @BattleshipAgincount (AKA: Lizardleaps)

    See why I don't believe in your god? It's lying fucks like you that are the reason I directly oppose everything you stand for!

    Why don't you do the honorable thing and post your comments under your own username again? Or is your reputation so stained by your lies that you can't get a post out anymore without having it flagged?

    Ask yourself if Jesus would approve of such behavior? Or I forgot that you aren't a real christian...

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "See why I don't believe in your god? It's lying fucks like you that are the reason I directly oppose everything you stand for!"

    Nope, you're a fool all by your own volition, so you have no one to blame but yourself.

    I wanted to go by the name BattleshipAgincourt, but it was already being used by someone else, so I settled for BattleshipAgincount. I'll switch with you?

    I asked myself as per your request and got no reply back, so I'm good with it.

  • @BattleshipAgincount (AKA: Lizardleaps)

    'I wanted to go by the name BattleshipAgincourt, but it was already being used by someone else, so I settled for BattleshipAgincount. I'll switch with you?'

    This has got to be the single most pathetic lie you've ever told. Do you seriously enjoy being regarded as a stupid, lying fool?

    Go the fuck away!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    You mean it wasn't being used by someone else, namely you?

    Well then, I may just give YouTube a little piece of my mind because they clearly indicated that this user name was not available.

    Thanks so much for letting me know! :)

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  • Yes, Dr. Craig is a magnificent debater. He has a knack for exposing his opponents for the mere whining emotional wrecks that they really are. Bravo Dr. Craig!

  • @BattleshipAgincount (AKA: Lizardleaps)

    Go away, you fucking troll!

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  • "Sam Harris Utterly Destroys William Lane Craig" there I fixed it for you

  • @BattleshipAgincount

    It has come to my attention that I have sever attention deficit disorder so I forgot why I posted this.

    This is NOT a drill!

    This account was created by a guy wearing Bermuda shorts and Carl Sagan T-shirt. They have decided to give me just what I have coming to me.

    If anyone here abides with this behavior, put your right hand in

    and put your right hand out, put your right hand in and shake it all about.

    Do the hokey pokey and turn yourself around that what it's all about.

  • @BattleshipAgincount (AKA: Lizardleaps)

    You've been caught red-handed, you stupid cunt. Not everyone here is as intellectually challenged as you, otherwise people might actually buy your pathetic lies.

    I know you don't have a shred of self respect, but this latest ploy of yours demonstrates exactly how much of a dishonest cunt you really are. You have pissed on EVERYTHING you proclaim to believe in! And you're going to keep doing it for as long as you live.

    So fuck you!

  • Destroys Sam Harris?!?! what did i mis?! I know what good means now and i did it before to. Mr Craig´s statement would suggest that theist countries are more ethical and good to one and other but thats actually not the case.. hmmm strange....

  • It has come to my attention that someone has created a new account named 'BattleshipAgincount'

    This is NOT me!

    This account was created by a fucking troll who couldn't contest my arguments, instead resorting to deliberately misrepresenting me! This is EXACTLY the kind of behavior that I despise certain theists!

    If anyone here does not abide with the behavior of this dishonest fool, please let me know. Let HIM know how you feel about it.

  • @ChestonORChezszun

    You cannot explain the origin of the universe with feeble logic. If everything physically existent has a cause, then god wouldn't need to have a cause. The moment you violate the rules of logic and the premises of your opponent, you invalidate your argument.

    I am NOT a reasonable, rational person, so I refuse to accept valid answers for sheer stubbornness. When I don't know something, I make something up and DON'T admit it. God is not an option because I just don't like it.

  • @BattleshipAgincount

    'I am NOT a reasonable, rational person, so I refuse to accept valid answers for sheer stubbornness. When I don't know something, I make something up and DON'T admit it.'

    You see what a lying prick you are? You could NOT actually contest my arguments, which is the very reason you made up a new account with a name similar to mine... to deliberately misrepresent me!

    Just when I thought you couldn't get any more pathetic, you show what a complete fuckup you really are!

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  • Based on youtube comments the vast majority of atheists lack any knowledge of logic, manners or respect. It's as hilarious as it is annoying to see so many try to portray intelligence and generally bum the fuck out of science, Wielding it as the bane to religion (I used that word because many atheists generalise the term, but I really mean the belief in a God, not a religion). The sheer hate and contempt that is visible from these comments should be a clear indicator that some is awry with them.

  • @lateralaus at least we do not condemn anyone to hell....you invented that.

  • @adstanra Is that bad?

  • @Batman55076 Hell is the worst concept ever invented by human beings. Imagine the grief it has caused poor credulous mothers, fathers, husbands wives who think their loved one in is hell....is this what you mean? .

  • @adstanra Nope, that is YOUR choice. You need to research this stuff properly just to see how valid it actually is. A good starting point is chuck misslers learn the bible in 24 hours or Beyond Time and Space. I can guarantee you will find answers if you do, but you won't, will you? You've been conditioned from birth to avoid and hate it, I certainly was anyway. If it is all "invented" as you say then you've got nothing to lose in checking it out, right?

  • @lateralaus i was a christian evangelist for 25 years. what is my choice BTW? I am not interested in being referred to other people's books. I am well versed in Christian apologetics and the bible. i could spend all day referring you to books I think could instruct you, but I am not interested in book recommendations.Your own thoughts would be fine.

  • @adstanra For 25 years, and you're asking me what your choices are? Well my thoughts are that our society is working to destroy any belief in "religion" and that chances are that any time it's even mentioned on TV or media it's nothing more than your typical stereotype and people are completely feeding off it without giving it a seconds thought. The amount of detail in the bible (KJV) alone is simply shocking that's what the chuck missler vidoes are all about and that's why I recommended them.

  • @lateralaus there certainly are many people working to minimize ( or destroy) the influence of religion. It is hard not to "stereotype" , but atheists are mostly interested in attacking those who hold fundamental views, which do lend themselves to stereotypes. there are many liberals who still argue for things like hell, fall and biblical authority. and religious people are working to destroy atheism. Republicans and democrats are working to destroy each other. It democracy.

  • @adstanra

    Not true.

    I don't speak for all atheists, but most are NOT out to destroy religion altogether. They merely want religious people to stop interfering with the affairs of people outside their cults. If you don't like abortion, stop imposing your religious values upon women who don't want to have children. Believe whatever you want about homosexuality, but keep it to yourself.

    Freedom OF religion can only be attained if we also have freedom FROM religion.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt Well, I am interested in opposing anyone who thinks they know the mind of God through some sort of revelation or dogma....that would include liberals.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "...keep it to yourself. Freedom OF religion can only be attained if we also have freedom FROM religion"

    False Blabbs. Yours is a self-refuting statement.

    If one engages in the practice of their religious convictions/beliefs by speaking out against that which they may consider offensive, whilst the exercise of freedom of speech is constitutionally guaranteed, then that's just tough pterodactyls, despite you or anyone not liking it, thus hypocrite Fail!

  • @LizardLeaps (AKA BattleshipAgincount)

    You know that you're proving you have no values with every lie you produce under this false username.

    You may not care about integrity or dignity, but I do! If you want to believe me a liar, then do so... I don't need nor want your respect. I want you to leave me alone!

    The instant you started lying in my name... you've gone too far. This dishonorable behavior is something that I would NEVER resort to! You've proven yourself a complete fuckup yet again!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "You know that you're proving... "that I whine.

    I know of no such thing. This is just your delusion and hypocrisy in self-deceiving mind playing tricks on you again.

    This is a (my) valid username, and it was given to me upon request.

    You need to learn to read the small print because some clown (you) has the ending of their user name as court, whilst mine is count.

    You can sue me in "court" but I wouldn't "count" on prevailing if I were you. 'Lol!

  • @Lizardleaps

    God you're stupid!

    'False Blabbs.'

    If this wasn't enough, I traced your IP address and guess who's computer it matches?

    I have no doubt it is you. You are completely incompetent when it comes to lying, yet you're deluded enough to actually THINK people buy your lies... they don't!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    (Cont'd

    ...you have proven yourself a LIAR again for taking my quote; "False Blabbs"completely out of it's actual context.

    You took it from my reply and exposure of your contradictory and hypocritical; "Freedom OF religion can only be attained..."blabber, and it's posted on this same page right here.

    You must be a compulsive-pathological LIAR for not even being concerned for being caught.

    I have never denied changing my username, thus LIAR Fail!!++

  • @Lizardshit

    Your IP address is identical, stupid! You've been caught red handed in your pathetic lie! You ARE the Lizard!

    No one is buying your lies. They didn't buy them as lizardleaps. They're not buying them now.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "Your IP address is identical, stupid! You've been caught red handed in your pathetic lie! You ARE the Lizard!"

    Say Blabbs, setting aside the fact that you didn't confirm anything through my "IP address" as you ARE again just LYING about and as usual, your point is moot because I NEVER denied that I had changed my username from the outset thus, moot point and LIAR Fail!++

  • @Lizardleaps

    And to be quite frank, I'm sick of you!

    I was originally willing to just ignore you from now on, but you DELIBERATELY sought to discredit me with this pathetic scheme of yours. You will delete this account and EVERY post you have made, then swear on the head of your god to leave me alone from now on.

    I have had enough of you.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "And to be quite frank, I'm sick of you!"

    Now your talking and not just blabbering as usual, as that's a splendid new username to assign to yourself.

    You be "QuiteFrank" and I'll happily remain BattleshipAgincount. :)

    You are far more reasonable than I have given you credit for, so sorry, my bad and Bravo Blabbs!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    This dishonorable behavior is something that..."I"...resort to! You've proven..."ME"... a complete fuckup yet again!"

    Stop your self-righteous blabbering, you blabbering self-righteous hypocritical blabbermouth.

    You know that you've flag for spam, virtually everything that I post and were proven a LIAR for denying it... when I produced the conclusive evidence of you encouraging others to do the same.

    You're just irate because I'm smarter than you. :)

  • @Lizardleaps

    Oh I have no reservations about lying to YOU, fuckstick!

    That's the part you don't seem to get. Yeah... I flag EVERY post you make! You got me. Unfortunately that pales in comparison to this dishonorable scheme you're playing right now.

    There, now it's your turn to confess EVERY lie you've told to the people of youtube.

    EVERY SINGLE ONE.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    (Cont'd...

    ...all of my comments because you're a momentously irrationally insane, sore loser, and this is precisely why I changed my user name into what I have. 'Lol!

    You have only brought it upon yourself blabbering LIAR, so get used to it! :)

  • -Lizardshit

    'You're just irate because I'm smarter than you. :)'

    I seriously laughed at this!

    A) You've given me no reason to believe you've got any intelligence

    B) I doubt you've got an IQ above 121

    C) Even if you did, that's certainly not why I despise you

    I despise you because you're a dishonest cunt. I seem to recall at least nine incidents where you deliberately misrepresented yourself to win an argument... and you couldn't even do that right!

    You caught me on ONE count of lying.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "I seriously laughed at this!"

    Then you "seriously" ought check your shorts and I “seriously” hope you have a clean pair on hand, Mr. Stinky Doo Doo Pants! 'Lol!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "A) You've given me no reason to believe you've got any intelligence"

    A) Your lack of reason is all the more reason as to why you fail to acknowledge the reason, thus Fail! :)

    "B) I doubt you've got an IQ above 121"

    B) Says the one who stated; "Can you demonstrate that not playing the piano is correct and true? 'Lol!

    P.S. I thoroughly appreciated your preface, where you proudly credited yourself for coming up with this on your own. 'Lol!

    (Cont'd

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "C) Even if you did, that's certainly not why I despise you"

    C) Well Jimmy Crack Corn to you Pinocchio, because you have been indisputably proven a LIAR!

  • @BattleshipAgincourt

    "You caught me on ONE count of lying"

    Your abacus is conveniently and provably on the blink, but your delusional denial is fully intact.

    You haven't given me or anyone, any reason to believe that anything you blabber is the truth, but rather only reason to expect and believe that you’re really just a momentous blabbering fool LIAR.

    Hope you seek, errr...Hope this helps!

  • this guy made absolutely no sense. What a bunch of white noise. There is no god, get over it.

  • and Dr Craig should look up "good" in the dictionary.

  • @butterf1yz He's a Doctor, respect his authority bitch. He knows more than you.

  • lol. at least the uploader had the courage to enable ratings for this video. That's brave. Humiliating, surely, but brave.

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  • 4 minutes and 58 seconds of white noise. Title made me laugh though.

  • *watches video*

    ...

    ...where?

  • Unfortunatly Sam Harris set himself up for a fall here by using an analogy of good that is describing the non-moral use of the term. (As Dr Craig correctly points out) HOWEVER, to define the actually meaning of the 'moral' word good would be something along the lines of "How the dominant or majority of society (at the time) deem it to be so in order for them to benefit in some way." It changes! E.g 500 years ago it was good 'moraly' to kill people for crimes. Now (in the west) it is 'bad'.

  • @SC75116 I think you need to rewatch the video, or the other parts of it. He does not equivocate about the term good,but is consistent that it refers to the well being of other creatures. When he describes the good chess move, he is pointing out that in this context the term Good (english is a strange language) refers to an activity that moves you closer to a goal ( winning the game). but it is not just a matter of opinion whether the move was "Good". Morality is like that, not just opinion.

  • @SC75116 this argument by WLC is a complete red Herring. English happens to sometimes use the same word in different contexts. To equivocate is to move from one context to the other as though they were the same. SH is not doing this. He understands that Good move or Good basketball team is not the same as moral good. The term good in all these context though, refers to a positive step towards a goal (winning the game or achieving well being).

  • Dr Craig always makes the arguments for the existence of god TOO philosophical! You cannot answer a question that requires a factual answer with philosophy its pointless! Confusing and encorporating human culture and traditions built over thousands of years and applying them to an efectively 'yes' or 'no' question is futile! Lane Craig just uses complex linguism to try and play on the biases of those who believe or want to believe in order to spread his message that god is real, his logic fails.

  • @ChestonORChezszun

    'You may not like or believe the answer I've presented.'

    I reject your answer due to emotional reasons. I reject it due to my inherent lack of reason. If there's something I cannot answer, I will simply say the first thing that comes to my mind. I DO just invent whatever answer suits me.

    If you want to prove a point, do what I do and say you have. Otherwise say anything and hope no one notices.

  • I like the light sabre like bar.

  • Whomever uploaded this video is a moron....  Atheism true?? Um... Dr Craig obviously does not understand atheism... also a moron.

  • I'm really missing the part where Crajg destroys Harris. It's not possible that anyone could effectively dispute Harris's position.

  • this guy speaks utter shit

  • @LizardLeaps Stupid TROLL... myths are for kids

  • @LizardLeaps

    Three more in contrast to your cherry-picked def.

    *The person committing Special Pleading is claiming that he is exempt from certain principles or standards yet he provides no good reason for his exemption.*

    *Special pleading comes in multiple forms, but the most common is that of claiming a superior framework which is proven to be superior by its own internal criterion.*

    *The informal fallacy of special pleading is committed whenever an argument includes some double standard.*

  • @LizardLeaps

    *Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional considerations without proper criticism of these considerations themselves. Essentially, this involves someone attempting to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exemption.*

    I.E. you demanding evidence while providing none.

  • I dont see utter destruction anywhere

  • here's something for you theists to chomp on. the universe has got along fine for billions of years, that's billions with a "B", before man invented god. humans have got along....well they've got along...for millions of years, that's million with an "M", before man invented god. stick that up your ass and sniff it!

  • still waiting for "utterly destroys" part. where is it

  • what these christian pseudo scientific and pseudo philosophical types don't get is that every known cause is either of natural origin or man made. every single one without exception. there are things that were once considered of supernatural origin that we now know are natural. it is most probable the things that we don't know the cause for now will have a naturalistic explanation. when craig want's to ponder what's most probable- he better try being rational about it in the future.

  • IS THIS WHAT CHRSTIANESSE SOUNDS LIKE?

  • Semantics.

  • Wow, Dr. Craig smashed Harris.

  • @12Ominous Watch the entire debate? Then say who smashed who

  • @Tiger66261 I did?  Dumb ass?

  • @12Ominous Sorry, I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt thinking you only saw this 4 min video.

    But the fact that you have seen the entire debate and still came to the stupid conclusion that WLC smashed harris only shows that you are a theistic fruitcake.

    It's great, I can tell who's a theist and who isn't just by reading one comment.

  • @Tiger66261 I wasn't before I saw that debate actually. I was an atheist most my life, born one actually.

  • @12Ominous "I was an atheist most my life, born one actually."

    Born an atheist?

    You silly fruitcake. Everyone's born an atheist.

    Hey guys, did you know I was *ACTUALLY* born an atheist lol? Hard to believe eh?

    And like I said, I was right, you are a theistic fruitcake.

  • @Tiger66261 Umm, no there is actually something called the God gene, meaning people are predisposed to believe in God. If everyone was born an atheist why has Religion been a part of the human condition since the beginning of time? Preposterous. Even caveman had deities. You can stigmatize my position all you want. You're just a deluded atheist, so there.......dumb ass.

  • @12Ominous My god are you stupid - There's a difference between the mind of a child at birth and the mind of an adult - No human, at birth, ever has any beliefs or religion. Superstition and man-made myths develop in the mind later on. So like I said, every human is *born* an atheist (I.E no belief in a god) - how their mind evolves later on is irrelevant.

    "Even caveman had deities"

    Proving religion is man-made. You Deluded religious fruitcake.

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  • @12Ominous You're hilarious.

    "Ad Hominem, you've already lost."

    "You're a complete dumb ass"

    "It's obvious you only have high school education"

    "rofl, such noob."

    "Your anger and hostility"

    From your comment (which I had to reveal given it was flagged as spam.. wonder why) we have established that you are a hypocritical, self righteous religious fruitcake.

    "How does cave-man having deities prove Religion is man-made?"

    It shows religion originated from primitive, uneducated minds.

  • @Tiger66261 Education, than argue. It wasn't flagged, I found it without having to reveal it. Right, yet it has continued to exist for millions of years and humans continue to unanimously hunger for something that isn't there. You realize this would make humanity as a species absurd.

    If anything it shows that humans, composed of atoms, part of the Universe, already have an intuitive understanding of the Universe.

  • @12Ominous "If anything it shows that humans, composed of atoms, part of the Universe, already have an intuitive understanding of the Universe. "

    Wait, I'm sorry? Did you just say humans already *intuitively* know and understand the universe?

    "humans continue to unanimously hunger for something that isn't there.

    Again, showing religion is man made. Humans cook up all sorts of myths to explain the unexplained. You cant comprehend this for some reason.

    "It wasn't flagged"

    Oh yes it was.

  • @Tiger66261 You know what's also man-made? Science. fallible, negate-able and subject to human bias. In fact here's a short list of precious, fragile scientific theories, widely believed to be true that were proven wrong.

    1.Geocentricity

    2. Alchemy

    3. World Ice Theory

    4. Einstein's static universe

    5. The expanding earth

    Just to name a few, I could go on.

  • @12Ominous

    1. Flaunted by the religious institutions as the truth

    2. Superstition

    3. Possibly credible scientific hypothesis, refuted for greater understanding

    4. A lack of proper information and evidence

    5. Possibly credible scientific hypothesis, refuted for greater understanding

    It's only when we realize that we discarded these bits of 'science' because they failed to properly explain what we saw when we observed the universe, that science actually seems to be a powerful thing.

  • @Nepycros *Yawns, excuses. As long as people are fallible, so is science and there for it isn't any better than religion. Also religion provides something that science can never provide, a reason.

  • @12Ominous Ha. Religion has absolutely no provisional means to interact in the natural world. Science does. I suggest you look up youtube(dot)com/watch?v=g9x_oa­--KAc

    And as for the 'reason', why do you need a 'reason' in the first place? A reason to be? To exist? Sorry to be blunt, but there's no proof there IS a reason.

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  • @12Ominous This is the true power of science: evidentialism.

  • @Nepycros Flawed, actually. By requiring evidence to concede belief in something, you close yourself to likely, plausible truths. Evidence needs to be obtained and there for we need to be capable of obtaining it. For instance if you applied this approach 1000 years ago, you could not believe there was anything above the sky because you could not retrieve evidence. If I saw a shooting star, I could not prove to you that I did because I could not reproduce the evidence. Fallacious.

  • @12Ominous To believe a specific event happened, one shouldn't lean too far into skepticism, for fear of being incapable of believing ANYTHING. However, believing an event is conceivably possible requires evidence, either by convincing testimonies or other means. Evidentialism is fallacious when we CAN'T gain evidence. But hey, look, WE CAN.

  • @Nepycros How can you gain evidence of God? You can't. That was exactly my argument. We haven't even been past the moon. God may be outside of the Universe, even in another dimension, if you want to drag string theory into the mix. But he's certainly not sitting motionless in his own machine. He's likely outside of it.

  • @12Ominous God MIGHT be. There's no evidence either way. Religion presents what might be, but has no evidence for. Science presents mountains of empirical evidence behind every concept it supports. Superstitions are superfluous, because you can make any claim you want about your God, and have it so immaterial that it's unverifiable by any means. That's why religions are annoying. They make as many claims as they like, with little reason to do so, and hide behind the unknowable.

  • @12Ominous

    'How can you gain evidence of God? You can't. That was exactly my argument.'

    So you're admitting your god doesn't exist?

    That IS essentially what you stated right here. If your god is indistinguishable from a figment of your imagination, then the default position is to assume it doesn't exist. If your god cannot produce itself, then why should anyone else believe it exists?

  • @12Ominous "so is science and there for it isn't any better than religion"

    Looks like our hypocritical, self righteous fruitcake mind doesn't understand the concept of science.

    Not worth my time. I'm sure other people here have already tried to explain science to 12Ominous.

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  • @12Ominous

    And how many of these theories are still treated as fact?

    None. You know why? Because stronger theories supported by evidence were erected in their place. Don't you DARE undermine science, considering as you're enjoying EVERY benefit it has to offer.

    When was the last time the bible's been rewritten in light of recent discoveries?

    Never? So the 6-day creationism story, noah's ark, and a whole bunch of other stories are still as wrong today as they were a thousand years ago.

  • @BattleshipAgincourt I may undermine science if I wish, just as you undermine religion by putting forth exaggerated, misrepresentations of it. Well, unfortunately science can't disprove God because he's outside of the natural world, and a better theory has not been put forth. 6 days to God is likely 6 000 000 years to you, just as an ants life-span of one day to you is likely a lot longer to it. Time is relative. Interestingly the genesis account was written in precise order.

  • @12Ominous I got a reply to your post, but it doesn't seem to show on the video. I'll respond anyway: You are ASSUMING there is a reason for everything to exist. And you add an extra (albeit superfluous) step by saying it's an INTELLIGENT or INTELLIGIBLE reason for it. :/ Sory, that's where your own presuppositions are absolutely unnecessary.

  • @Nepycros If there is not a reason, existence itself is preposterous. I do not assume, I follow my logic, as well as science where it leads. The Universe cannot have formed by itself, it is contrary to the laws of thermodynamics. Furthermore nothing in the known world exists without a reason. As Above So Below: Everything on highest level of existence functions adjacently to that that is on the lowest, merely on a larger scale. I can observe Universal truths on my scale with reason.

  • @12Ominous The Big bang can't be computed because the laws of physics (as we know them) break down. So, it's fallacious to claim that physics negates this theory, because physics cannot be accurately applied to the exact moment of the Big Bang.

    You need to study up on quantum physics.

    A priori truths are rather unappealing. You're still assuming far too much. And claiming these to be universal truths leaves little room to be corrected. You can't say for sure this isn't just a dream.

  • @Nepycros When we don't have all the evidence, we have no choice but to rely on our own logic, reason, and dare I say? intuition, to form temporary truths, so that we can have a paradigm on which to base our existence. Does this leave room for error? Wishful thinking? Yes. But there is nothing wrong with that. When I am proven wrong, I am proven wrong. There is no harm done. But it will not likely be anytime soon, if ever. And course, nothing is for sure, I do not claim certainties.

  • @12Ominous Did you just admit that your beliefs are wishful thinking? (honest curiosity, I think I misinterpreted)

    And by golly, I agree that any time one leaves themselves open to refutation, they have the proper mindset. I simply took offense when it was stated that religion and science are on the same grounds when dealing with the same topics. Religion's got some stuff to it, science has other stuff.

  • @Nepycros I didn't say my beliefs are wishful thinking, but when there isn't certainty, we are partial to believe in things that make us feel better about ourselves, so there is room for error.

    Science deals with the natural world. I consider God to be outside of the natural world. A satisfactory analogy would be an engineer and his machine. Science is the study of the mechanics of that machine, from within the machine. The Engineer however is on the outside of it.

  • @12Ominous Well, you've officially presented a sound argument. Very credible. Even though I don't share your beliefs, I can certainly see how it is internally consistent.

  • @Nepycros Hey, thanks. No problem, the important thing is that you're open-minded, you're curious, and you're thinking for yourself ;). Good chatting with you.

  • @Nepycros No I'm not opposed to science, I enjoy science myself, I was just refuting someone else who tried to claim science was infallible. It is a good system for understanding the natural world.

  • @12Ominous Well, then this discussion has closure. I'm glad to receive your opinion. Your ideals and philosophies concerning this subject have been taken at face value, and I will proceed to analyze your reasoning until I can integrate into my way of thinking.

  • @Nepycros Thanks friend, and I your opinion as well, keep learning, thinking and growing.

  • @12Ominous

    So by your own logic, the Rocky Mountains were formed by some mountain-creating god. Is that what you're saying? Are you also suggesting that the intricate patterns of snowflakes were caused by a snowflake creator?

    Those who actually understand the naturalistic world don't call it magic like you do. Your entire argument is based on ignorance. If you don't know what caused the formation of the universe, the logical answer MUST BE your god.

    Or you can just admit you don't know *yet*.