Yet Another Response to "Mosin-Nagant 91/30 Bayonet Question"

[Iraqveteran8888]

Good editing and nice hat. My results are very similar.

[314299]

@Iraqveteran8888 I may just try this test again in the spring or summer when I can get out to the 600 yard range. My fur hat cost me $8 at a surplus store - I thought it was suitable attire to wear while testing a Russian rifle in the winter!

[EquipaPatriot]

Where dd you buy that ammo?

[314299]

@EquipaPatriot I think that stuff came from Frontier Firearms in Saskatchewan.

[SuperTelecom]

My Tula M91/30 (1934) shoots 8 inches high at 100 Meters, i fixed this by putting some 2.5mm Electrical wire insulation over the post and shortend it until it hit dead on at 100 meters and since i made the top of it a point it works quite well. Strangely my Izhevsk ex sniper hits perfectly at 100 meters. Does anyone know if they changed the sights during the war to make the bullets hit at the poa? ir is it just a sniper thing?

[kainhall]

@SuperTelecom tehy did sue different sights. the fins used a doubble stack sight, but tehy changed from machined to stapmed later in the war (in that 43 44 range). its possible, but i dont think so. they would have to retrain everyone!

[twogun1969]

just proves that a bayo and ammo type change everything....great vid!!!!!!

[NoVAFlood]

Apparently Red Army soldiers of the Mosin Nagant era were trained to aim at the belt buckle of their enemies. This may have something to do with it. I could be completely wrong though. Who knows.

[314299]

@NoVAFlood That might be a good method if you faced troops who were exposed, but they would end up shooting over a lot of the enemy if they had taken to prone or had only minimal exposure such as operating out of foxholes or trench.

[Wabatuckian]

Another good test.

If you'd like to get your rifle zeroed, I do have adjustable sights for it.

Regards,

Josh at Smith-Sights *dot* com

[314299]

@Wabatuckian That's an interesting option but I'm forever messing with different factory ammo, surplus, jacketed and cast bullet reloads. For the most part I'm OK with the rifle if I can get the group somewhere on paper.

[Riflechair]

7.5" high @ 100m with bayonet attached seems excessive to me and I am very suprised that the groups is so much tighter. 14" high at 100m is nonsense IMHO. I think I'll stick with 180 - 200gr Spitzers at slower velocities. Great test - thanks for sharing. RC

[TheVinoThunderbird]

My friend put his bayonet on and was unable to remove it even with tools so Ive been too chicken to put it on any of mine.

[314299]

@TheVinoThunderbird Some of them are certainly a very tight fit. It would suck having the thing stuck on as they are so bloody long.

[klesmer]

@314299 I have had to relieve the inside of several of my 91/30 bayonets. I think they may have been over rambunctous when they were refurbished and squeezed the outer ring a bit too much. A few minutes with a dremel and some fine sandpaper works wonders.

[314299]

@klesmer Apparently they didn't want them to rattle when affixed!

[20thcenturyfilmdocs]

And I've been trying to get reloads going, but no luck with that so far.

[314299]

@20thcenturyfilmdocs This is the best time of year to do reloading as there is not much else to do on long cold winter evenings.

[20thcenturyfilmdocs]

@314299 Yeah, but I've reloading everything already...now I need to shoot it!

[20thcenturyfilmdocs]

Well, to be perfectly fair here, unless you were using the EXACT same ammo as was used to sight these guns in, it's hard to know with certainty why some ammo shoots better than others. I find that the MOST ACCURATE/consistent ammo I've used so far in my M91/30s is the Sellier Bellot ammo, but even with that ammo, it shoots very high before I make front post sight adjustments. You basically have to sight the gun to the ammo, I guess the mfg. differences are enough to make that much differences

[Gungeek]

@20thcenturyfilmdocs Most of the refurbs I see look like the front post has been filed down.

[314299]

@Gungeek They might have decided that the rifles were to be sighted at the enemy's waist level, that would put bullets in the center of the torso.

[Gungeek]

@314299 I think the Russians might of been thinking something like that when they refurbed them.Might be a better battle sight for the cannon fodder for WW3.

[314299]

@Gungeek Post war they probably figured from studying the actual WW2 battle experiences that most of the time the vast majority of enemy contact was up close and personal anyway, why complicate things?

[Gungeek]

Oh no the 300 meter sight myth isn't dead after all, I say we throw out your findings in the vid :)

[314299]

@Gungeek I'd like to see where this thing hits at 300 m with the sights set to 300m. But I expect that test will have to wait until warmer weather when I can get back to the big range.

[Gungeek]

@314299 I would like to see that aswell :)

[Gungeek]

Did you shoot a bear and make him a hat? :)

[314299]

@Gungeek It was cold and and it was either him or me, I'm lucky that I had my trusty rifle along with me.

[onmilo]

Your results mirror mine with the Light ball stuff.

Since light ball seems to be a common issue in WW2 there may be something to the sighting in with the bayonet.

I am under the impression that the Snipers were issued heavy ball with their rifles and as we have all seen, this heavier ammo prints closer to point of aim with the bayonet off the rifle as the snipers would have done. Hmmm,,,,,

[314299]

@onmilo Makes sense. Soviet infantry were expected to enter battle with fixed bayonets, why not regulate the rifles accordingly? Snipers could make better use of heavier bullets for better long range accuracy, and of course dont use the bayonet. All of that could be by design or accident, who knows?

[Gungeek]

Very interesting. I think this calls for more ammo types :)

[314299]

@Gungeek I have a bunch of Privi 182 grain FMJBT that I may try out next time. This sort of thing should keep us entertained for months at this rate!

[Gungeek]

@314299 I will have to try some more gun ammo combos too :)

[314299]

@Gungeek Sounds like a plan.

[Gungeek]

@314299 Have any of the Russian silver tip?

[314299]

@Gungeek Nope, the only surplus I have any amount of is the Czech.

[logcabinlooms]

I have seen the same results many times. You can play around with the sights and bring it down and centered, but its hard to get the groups to close up like they do with the bayonet on. Some day I want to experiment with weights to replace the bayonet to see if it makes a change. Some guns are not as affected, like my 21, but some just refuse to group at all without the bayonet, such as my 38 tula.

[314299]

@logcabinlooms I'm still surprised at how much better the darn thing shoots with the bayonet attached, I used to think the Czech light ball was not terribly accurate, but that group with the bayonet attached was pretty decent, especially for a 1942 production rifle. All that weight hanging off the muzzle must act like a barrel tuner, your weight idea sounds good, be better than having to keep bayonets fixed.

[load1up]

Thanks for the great video. Do you think you would get the same result if you were using an m-44 carbine ? Future video perhaps ? Thanks.

[314299]

@load1up That would be a good excuse to break out one of the M44's.

[amos89id]

Thanks for the video. I have always heard that mounting a bayonet would change POI, it is nice to actually see it happen.

[314299]

@amos89id It certainly does move the groups around, at least with this rifle!