Praise to God is more for the one who praises. In our own inadequacies, we realize how great God is and give Him the glory. It makes us humble and helps us realize that there is a power much greater than ourselves who is the source of all things. When people feel they are it and there is nothing more than themselves they become selfish and arrogant and trust more in themselves than God which leads to spiritual destruction. God wants us to mature and grow spiritually in love.
We are God's children. He loves us and wants us to be with Him forever. He built us with a soul. The soul is something that will live eternally. When we die, the sould will live eternally with God for those who place their trust in Chirst. For those who don't, the soul will live eternally apart from God in a place called hell. If you had a child you might understand this concept. It has something to do with love. God wants us with Him. Why do you reject the love of God?
Eternal life isen't just about Heaven. Jesus Christ Himself IS eternal life. Everyone who truly believes in Him has eternal life.
Eternal life occurs the second you receive The Holy Spirit, then you pass over from life to death. Any man without Gods Spirit in him is a dead man, spiritually dead. And he cannot, nor does he want to praise and worship God.
Dude, its not just praising and worshipping GOd, its also an eternal relationship with our Creator. He created us so He wants usto be involved in all the plans that He places and involved inruling with Him. YES, praise n worship is part of it. Nothing wrong with that. Plus the bible says, His mercies are new everymorning. I dont think you'll be bored in heaven if you're always going to see new stuff every morning in heaven. If you don't wanna have eternal life in heaven, then youcan go to hell.
@humanistheart I guess that doesn't count Satan who actually killed countless of people from getting Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. God? a Genocidal maniac? That's non-sense compared to what Satan did...
@phatzky Is it? Satans just as fictional as your 'god' (calling god God is like calling a dog Dog by the way). Well lets think, who decided to put the fruit there in the first place? Who decided to eat the fruit in this fictional story? And where exactly was satan? Oh right, he wasn't there even in the fiction, because he wasn't invented by hebrew lor yet. Satan actually only makes one single appeareance in the 'OT', in job.
@phatzky Also, why even bring satan up? Even if he had killed people, which biblically he doesn't do, it sounds like your saying it's okay for Yahweh to kill because one of his creations sort of did. Not a great defense there.
@humanistheart This is what you don't get. Adam and Eve are free to do anything. God allows evil to be present in order for us to exercise our own will to worship Him. It is up to them to choose good or evil. Choose life or death. Obviously both has its results. We were meant to be immortals until Satan came along to tempt them. If it wasn't for him, Adam and Eve wouldn't have eaten the fruit. So because of that, we all die. He did not will for humans to die but yes! He knew its going to happen!
@phatzky You keep saying Satan tempted them (using the very thing Yahweh put there in the first place no less) but go back and read genesis. You'll see there is not one single mention of Satan. Read the rest of the OT. Satan's not the one committing mass genocide, or infanticide, or allowing slavery or rape. That's all Yahweh. You're trying to use satan as a scape goat to avoid the unconscionable acts of Yahweh.
@humanistheart I dunno why atheists likes to look at the "bad side" of God while He's also forgiving and merciful. Why look the other way whilst the other is better? We don't have control of God. He is willing to show mercy to those who asks for it. Plus, Satan was in the Garden according to Ezekiel 28:13. Plus when God cursed the serpent, God speaks of a prophecy the promise of a Savior from the seed of the woman to which will take a whole lot of paragrahp to explain. Yes! Satan was the serpent
@phatzky "He's also forgiving and merciful. " Two reasons. One, doing some good things does not override the horrible things. You cannot be good when you're doing so much bad. And second, think about what you said. How is Yahweh merciful? We do things he doesn't like and once in a while he throws you a bone? So what?? And no, there's no mention of Satan in Ezekiel.
@humanistheart Well what can you do? He's God and you're not! You/We will never understand why He did what He did. You’re saying that God cannot be good? I can quote you verses that God is good. You only like to see the “tyrant” side of God and don’t want to see His goodness. You don’t want to accept the fact that His goodness is available to anyone who desires it. Once in a while?? You won't get anything if you DON'T ask!
Respond to this video... "I can quote you verses that God is good." So what, simply writing something down doesn't make it true. I can quote you the verses where he slaughters children, allows slavery and rape, and so on. To argue the biblical god is good is to argue infanticide and genocide and slavery and rape are good.
@humanistheart Ok, you're confusing things here again. I can't explain why God told his prophets/kings to do them but this is due to the fact that people have disobeyed and there are consequences that follows and unfortunately, women and children become part of it. I can't completely answer that. Only God can. (Please don't add rape, this was never involved) But to those who obey Him, He shows favour, strength and goodness. This all goes back to choices again!
@phatzky Some people over here disobeyed me so I'm going to kill men women and children, allow rape and slavery and spousal and child abuse? That's insane. How can you believe that garbage?
@humanistheart Like I said, I personally don't know why would God kill men women and children. (And please, again, don't add rape and even child abuse, can you tell me where it said that?) How can I believe that "garbage"? Its because Jesus had to come so these things wont happen again!
@phatzky Jesus had to come so those things wouldn't happen again? Christians have been committing mass genocide, making war, slaughtering innocents for centuries. And why shouldn't they? If their god did it they can do it. If he's all powerful, and all knowing he could think of a better way, but he didn't. Probably because those fictional stories are a product of the savage ignorant time they came out of.
@humanistheart unfortunately you're only bringing up what has happened in the past. We do realise the outcome of our mistakes and yes they did put a bad name to christianity. Do you see me killing people? Do you see other Christians killing people nowadays? That was their own interpretation. Jesus did say to love one another, but surely not many Christians followed that. Don't judge us for what what "Christians" in the past did...
@phatzky The christian US is in the middle of a holy war with the muslim middle east. There's still slaughtering happening in the south american continent, also predominantly catholic. Ireland still battles between catholics and protestants, and the highest crime rates in the world are found predominantly in christian countries. So yeah, I do still see christians killing people. Not that that was the point.
@humanistheart And you say those things were in the OT, so what? If you think they happened, does time temper the horridness of them? I don't think so.
@humanistheart And no, Christians aren't muslims. They have a TOTAL different belief of God. You can compare us to Catholics and protestans, but we're not muslims...
@phatzky And I never said christians were muslims, I said they're at war with them. But their religion is a offshoot just as christianity is a failed reform movement of judaism.
Respond to this video... As for jesus saying love one another, if you believe this god is loving, than it means nothing as said love didn't stop it from killing, abuse, slavery, rape etc. So what?
@humanistheart Old testament is then, New Testament is now. Yes, I do agree that there are catholics and protestants are still battling it out, but I'm not categorised as one of them, neither my family or the church I go to. I'm no catholic, or a protestant. I know there are other denominations out there but our doctrines are not the same. Loving one another is the main message to Christianity. Its still the person's choice to love another person.
@phatzky No, the NT is a book, you don't live in a book.
And loving one another is completely meaningless. Did god's 'love' stop him from committing genocide or infanticide? No. Did his love stop him from torturing people? No. Love means nothing in the abrahamic religions.
@phatzky Then I'll say it again, it never had to happen in the first place (and it actually didn't since they're just stories, but even biblically it didn't have to happen at all.)
@humanistheart It all goes back to Genesis again from creation of Adam and Eve to the temptation of the serpent. Okay, you should read it and see it in God's position. Try to put away the "tyranny" mindset just for this time and keep an open mind. I'm sure its not gonna hurt you. Its all that I ask. Please. And let me know what you saw. Key words that I want you to see here also are "in God's likeness/image".
@humanistheart You didn't read it... You just need to read it again and see it in a different point of view for once! But I won't force you. Cheers...
@phatzky Has it occurred to you that you may be the one that needs to look at it from a different point of view? Might I suggest a more objective and factually based one?
@humanistheart In fact I have, for a while. But i looked back at Genesis again and again, and saw that it was never God's fault at the beginning. It was us. If only Adam and Eve didn't CHOOSE to eat the fruit.
@phatzky Everything in adam and eve was put there but Yahweh in your religion yes? The serpent that tricked eve, all the genetics and experience that led them to choose that was given to them by Yahweh. If you design something specifically to do something, then it does, do you get made at the design or the designer?
@humanistheart Yes it was all there. But just like the rest of us, Adam and Eve had the power to decide whether to choose to eat the fruit or not, even though being tempted by the serpent. God has set out life and death before them in the garden and its up for them to choose. God wants them to also practice making wise decisions that's why He had to put the tree there. God already warned them that they will die if they eat the fruit. That's simple enough. Its up for them to take heed.
@phatzky No, you don't quite understand. In an all knowing all powerful creator schema, free will is impossible. You and I feel that we have free will because we do, because no gods exist. See my video concerning free will and a god.
@humanistheart Impossible? No, it is you that didn't understand. You can do things u wanna do. That's free will. I chose life over death. Coz I prefer heaven than hell. I also chose goodness over evil. I help people in need voluntarily &help bring justice with the best of my ability to those who need it. If free will is impossible, then, why is it I can choose and see my own destiny? Its UP TO ME to sway from my destiny. Plus, if there's no God, then u wouldn't have existed. :)
@phatzky "No, it is you that didn't understand. You can do things u wanna do. " Yes, I can, because I have free will, which is just another prove your god doesn't exist. Because if he did, we would not have free will as everything would be predetermined.
"If free will is impossible, then, why is it I can choose and see my own destiny?" Because your god doesn't exist, thus we do have free will. If he did, we wouldn't.
@humanistheart Just for you... You just don't see what some of us actually do when it comes to loving one another. Or you just CHOOSE not to see it...
@phatzky If he were real that would scare me, as previously mentioned love seems to be expressed in horrifying ways in the judeo-christian scriptures.
@humanistheart Dude, He created you. Don't be scared of Him. There are many good things that He did in the old testament as well. I really don't know why you like to delve on the "bad side". Christians revere God just as how we revere Kings and Queens, but in a most higher reverence, because we know we're created by Him. The offer's there man. If you wanna keep on delving on bad side, go ahead. Not stopping you. That's your part of free will. God bless :)
@phatzky It's just something someone made up until proven otherwise. Do you need to disprove the idea tht I shit out the universe? It's ridiculuous to assert that you should.
And incedentally yes I can. Omnicience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive concepts, but people believe the abrahaic god has both. Since that's impossible, it's impossible for it to exist.
@phatzky Faith isn't proof. If anything that's counterproductive to proof, as you're basically saying that you need to believe in something before anything will look like proof of it.
Nope, it's impossible to be both omniscient and omnipotent, they are mutually exclusive concepts.
@humanistheart What? You're scared to put your faith so you can see for yourself that He's real? It doesn't hurt buddy...
No, you don't understand. As it says in the scriptures, God's ways and God's mind are higher than man's ways and man's mind. It seems impossible for man to conceive them in thoughts, but everything's possible to God :) You can't contain, neither, (if I could use the word) 'tame', God.
@phatzky "As it says in the scriptures, God's ways and God's mind are higher than man's ways and man's mind. It seems "
And the problems with being all knowing/powerful are written down in the God Delusion, in Plato's writing, in many paces here on youtube and so on. By your logic, since its written down, you can't argue with it. Saying it's in 'the scriptures' means nothing here.
@humanistheart 1) As I said previously he cannot be contained in human minds, nor (if I can use the word) be tamed... I don't claim to fully understand God, cz I know He's thoughts are way higher than mine. It mit be an understatement but, that's just who He is... 2) You do need faith in order to see. Its a gateway if I could use that term. That's another part where He goes beyond human logic. 3) God has every right to be angry and has every right to love...
@phatzky Saying one needs faith to see something means it's not real. Because you can only see it when your desperately trying to convince yourself of it.
@humanistheart If you think about it, there have been a lot of athiests that had committed Genocide throughout history as well... don't try to put all the blame onto us... communism familiar to you? Still going nowadays as well...
@phatzky Yes communism was a fraudulent claim on your part, given that it was a political thing, not a religion thing. Plus the cults of personality that can only be described as theistic. And communism only existed for a century, theists have been causing problems for thousands of years. There is no comparison there.
Respond to this video... Yet who created this satan? Well christians, but in your religion you belive god did, so he'd be responsible for him. Plus you ignore that in job satan can do NOTHING without this gods permission, so how could he be responsible for anything?
@phatzky Spousal abuse: But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21
@phatzky Rape: Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18
@humanistheart Yes indeed Satan was the serpent. Satan has been described as the Serpent of old in revelations. There's no doubt its Satan. The bible doesn't have to mention its him. The description clarifies it.
@phatzky Hardly, there's numerous mentions of serpents, as well as just using it as an insult. It's only in hindsight that Christians decided to merge the characters together, thus you think it mentions him. It does not.
@humanistheart The bible described Satan as the accuser, the deceiver, the lion seeking whom he may devour, Serpent of old and the dragon in Revelations, the Devil, the enemy of our souls. His name not needed to be mentioned when everyone knows its him. Satan uses these characters so the wrath of God would come to humanity :)
@phatzky Yes, in REVELATIONS. The very last book of the CHRISTIAN bible. The HEBREW scriptures only have him in one single mention, in Job, where he is described as a child of god, who can do nothing without gods permission. You say 'when everyone knows him' but that's a retcon. Lets pretend for a moment that there really was a god. You're telling me that in the thousands of years after he chose abraham as the father of his people that he didn't once bother to mention to them that...
@humanistheart I personally don't why he's not mentioned. I don't know what goes on in God's mind back then. You can ask Him that, but since you don't believe, you won't get your answer :)
@phatzky ...there just happened to be this fallen angel that was trying to get them to sin against him since the beginning of earth? That doesn't seem like an important enough detail to mention at some point?
No, the bottom line is satan appears once, in job.
And you're also claiming that this god of yours lets satan manipulate him? Interesting claim.
@humanistheart No, not implying that SAtan's trying to manipulate God at all. This is comes to the consequences of man's disobedience and whoever follows Satan's temptations... God can only say stop doing what they're doing, but if they still do, obviously there are consequences.
@humanistheart Wait i should say it correctly. Satan, with these characteristics, enforced to humans, so He would push God to bring down His wrath to humanity.
@phatzky 2) If he created them knowing they would do something he didn't like than he was creating them to do something he didn't like. It's called predetermination. Free will literally cannot exist in a omniscient context. See my video concerning free will. It's explained there how it's impossible.
@humanistheart So if you don't have free will, You don't have complete control of your speech and movements and thinking patterns. That's just how I understand it. Its either one, or the other... Its funny because you keep going back to OT while the NT states that He has placed all judgement of our sins to His One and Only Son so we can know complete forgiveness. Why did it take so long for Him to do that? I don't know. Ask God...
@phatzky Yes, if someone creates all factors and lets it run, as in the beliefs of the abrahamic religions, than all was pre-set to occur before it did. That's not free will.
@humanistheart Yes I agree with predetermination but that doesn’t mean we can’t choose what we want to do in life. We were all destined to be in hell but if we accept Christ’s sacrifice, we become destined to be with Him for the rest of eternity. Don't you want to choose mercy?
@phatzky No, destiny means it unchanging by definition. You can't say we were 'destined' for hell (which you think you're god created which would mean he was destined to create it which means he has no free will either) but there's a way out because then that's not destiny by definition.
@humanistheart Why is it that you don't see that we are able to make choices (even eternal choices) in life? THUS, destiny can be changed! When we make a choice and turn it to a habit, destiny follows it. What doesn't change is your fate. Don't confuse the words! Fate tells us that we can't get out of death. But destiny tells us there's life after death (If you believe in God of course). You can choose your destiny! Adam and Eve had a choice! You have a choice!
@humanistheart Ok im wrong on the change part. But that doesn't mean you can't decide to get out of it :). With Fate, its inevitable. There's no way out of Fate
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.
Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?
A. The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
I think the thought has been twisted. God is known as the Father, yes? And we are to honor our Mother & Father,Yes? The word "Serve" I think is another word used for control because while I do hear people speak about "Serving God" following the rules and the teaching of Jesus. Worshiping is giving Honor. I hear it more as "Serving the Church". And while Church is supposed to be there for people to congregate & learn about God. It has become a society of it's own with it own political agendas.
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
YOU WILL SERVE GOD BY RULING OVER ANGELS IN HEAVEN (MAYBE GALAXIES AND OTHER BEINGS?). GOD ALREADY TOLD US THAT THE ANGELS SERVE US BECAUSE WE ARE OF HIS FINEST CREATIONS....they honor us when we die
God benefits nothing from us serving him or praising him we do! and think about it you serve the state the laws sin satan yourself and the world thats what you! eternal life we will only serve God and it will be great an amazing i can only imagine what it will be like! whats so great about this world???
serving God is amazing why would you not want to serve a mighty all powerful all knowing God who loves you! serving God is an act of humility and trust..we do not have the strength and power to overcome satan sin and the world so by serving God whom we trust we serve ourselves and others! praising God well words cannot describe it is so overwelming and graceful peacful and powerful don't knock it till you try it!
If we only live, and die, what is the point of this existence if there is no final justice?
The Dad (God) wants justice for His kids' blood.Those murderers are brought forth and face eternal judgment in Hell. Which is fair at least I think so. But God is good, and if they sincerely ask forgiveness, He graciously gives it to them. So the question is not the purpose of eternal life, but where you will spend it? In judgment, or at the Father's side in Heaven. Just a point of view :)
@mannymtz01 Just because the idea sounds appealing doesn't mean there's any truth to it. According to your logic & theology a pastor who raped a child and honestly repents afterwards goes to heaven, but the child who grew up not wanting anything to do with churches or religions gets eternal torture after leaving his/her miserable f*cked up life. Some justice. Some merciful all loving God.
@TherionNLD Both are sinners in the world and both have equal oppurtunities to repent of those sins and go to Heaven. Its perfectly fair and logical, and that is what God is....perfectly fair and logical. Thats kinda how he got the position lol.
Okay, so that's the solution Christ offers. Problem: sin. Solution: Jesus Christ.
I agree that this world is sick, twisted, and it's hard to see God's goodness in it all.
But apart from Jesus' free gift of salvation, what better solution to our problem of sin would you offer, or what other ideology would help you sleep at night if not the love of God?
Because in Christ, we are cleansed, of sin we've done and sin done to us. We're made children of God, adopted to a better life.
THAT'S the truth and that's the logic in it all. That Jesus said "come to me all you who are burdened..and I will give you rest.." That He alone has the power to redeem us and clean us of all evil we've done and has been done to us, and that He himself will give us peace if we ask Him for it. Your example is very much true to today's world where more and more cases like this emerge. But after a life of carrying that, Jesus says, "I'll carry your burdens. I will give you a new life."
He offers this to everyone. To me, to you, to that child, to that pastor who committed this heinous crime. He died on the cross taking upon Himself every sin you and I commit in thought,, word, deed, and motive. Since the penalty for sin is death we deserve to die. Jesus chose to take OUR punishment and DIED. But on the third day, at His resurrection, He showed us that He defeated sin and all He asks is that we let Him help us. Cleansing is in Him. WE choose.to accept or deny Him.
He says to the victim child, "I want to help and love you, come to me."
He says to the criminal pastor, "I want to forgive you, come to me."
He says to you and me, "I want to save you, come to me."
So ultimately, the road is wide open. We drive. We can choose to listen to Jesus and seek Him. Or we can reject His gift. So in the end we go where we choose to go and the outcome is fair, because we choose where to end up. Heaven or Hell.
@mannymtz01 It's not a gift. If it was a gift it would be free, no strings attached. The child victim in my case would die, go to heaven and Jesus would say "I love you, even if you didn't believe in me in your time on earth, if you accept my gift now you'll be saved". But no, the gift expires as soon as you're aware that there's any truth to supernatural claims of an afterlife, then it's too late and you burn for eternity. It's not a gift it's a mindf*ck.
You disagree that's okay, its your opinion. When you receive a gift it's yours. But you still have to unwrap it. Thats how salvation-cleansing-eternal life is. Jesus offers& gives it to us. He wont FORCE it on us. We still have to sign for it and say that we DO want it. That's why its a gift. God allows us to choose to open it or not. As for the child if he wasn't old enough 2 understand the gospel and died He automatically gets to be with God because his mind was innocent.
and trust me, unfortunately in this world we live in, that child won't be the only innocent one to be with God in the end. More and more innocent kids are being abused and murdered, but God won't let them end up in Hell, because they are innocent. The Gospel is not about church or religion. All religions say work hard so maybe God will love you. Jesus' Gospel says, God ALREADY loves you just look at that cross and what HE HIMSELF did on it. Died for you and for me.
@mannymtz01 So if Hitler died when he was young he'd go to heaven... And the most loving thing a parent could do is to kill their own children, why risk them eternal torture when you can send them to eternal bliss right now? This life is nothing compared to eternity right? The logic of Christianity always breaks down when you actually stop and think about it.
I admit its impossible to know every aspect of God, and thanks for these conversations, they help me think if I'm REALLY a Christian. What I would avoid, would be to place myself on a throne and judge God. I am not God.Pride is the original sin that got Satan kicked out of Heaven. It's wiser to just tap-out and be humble, because He is God. I would also avoid a bunch of what-if questions and ask myself where I am with God.
I would also urge you to ask yourself this question. In the end Muslim, Roman Catholic, Christian, Jew, Mormon, etc.. All will stand in front of God. He will ask us individually why we deserve to live forever in Paradise? If our answer is anything but: "I don't, but Jesus died in my place for my sins and I love Him as Lord.", then Hell awaits. Whether you believe in it or not, Hell is real and many ppl choose to go there. I urge you to ask yourself where you are with God.
@mannymtz01 Nobody chooses to go to hell. Have you accepted Joseph Smith as a prophet and adhere to his teachings? No? Then you choose, by your own logic, to go to the Telestial Kingdom for eternity, outside of the presence of God. I was raised mormon so I know this stuff. See how your own logic breaks down when you view it from someone else's point of view who wasn't raised in your religion?
Okay,I see what you're saying. The thing is, I accept only Jesus as Savior. This God-Man made a claim no other world religion's founder dared to make. Jesus Christ said HE IS GOD. Neither the Buddha, nor Muhammad, nor Zoroaster, nor Krishna, nor Joseph Smith made this claim. Jesus Christ stands alone as the ONLY founder of any faith that claimed to be God himself. How many other people do you see making his claim? Those who do don't get very far and ppl dismiss them as lunatics.
look at the impact Jesus' claim and resurrection has had on the world. Orthodox Jews in the 1st century stopped worshiping on Sabbath and Started worshiping on Sunday the day of His resurrection. The Sabbath to them was one of the biggest commandments. People started using the Cross as a symbol, which today would be the equal of someone wearing an electric chair as a necklace. People started worshiping Jesus as God. What logic would you use to explain all these things?
apart from Jesus' claim of divinity and resurrection, there's no logical way to explain any of the events I mentioned. Jesus Christ is the only one to claim to be God and have such an enormous impact on the world and even on those who don't believe in Him. That's why even with all the logic in the world people, myself included, choose to accept Jesus' words and prophecies and of salvation as truth.
The gifts offer expires when we die. So as long as we're breathing, we have a chance to accept, unwrap, and enjoy this gift. It's all a matter of wanting to be cleansed, wanting an eternal life in the presence of God who promised us He would wipe every tear from our eye, and accepting Him saying, "Yes I am a sinner. I need a redeemer to save me from my sins. Jesus, you are that savior. I ask that you forgive me of ALL my sins and make me a new person. Be my Personal Savior and Lord.
As for the purpose of eternal life, well I'll respectfully give you a viewpoint and you can choose to see it from another perspective...if you want of course :)
Atheists don't believe in a life after this one. We're born, we live, we die, end of show. So let's say there's a family (hypothetically). Dad really loves his children, but one of his daughters is kidnapped, repeatedly raped, and tragically murdered. The Dad of the family will want nothing more than justice right?...
Good questions dude! They get me thinking beyond memorized, religious responses!
God doesn't NEED us. He was perfectly fine living by Himself in perfect unity with the Son and Spirit. He made us because He WANTS us. Analogy: A couple who want a child but can't have one because of medical problems. So they opt for adoption, not because they NEED a child, but because they WANT a child to love and take care of.
@zestydude87 How can you love that analogy? It makes no sense at all. Wishing for something doesn't make it so (to quote Jean-Luc Picard lol). Read my previous reply.
eternal life is earth in heaven minus everything that came after the fall of man - pain, disease, hardship, tears, darkness etc- everything that is of the devil. earth is a crash course on living a goodlife cos in heaven there's no trace of sin or evil. i understand that in heaven we live our lives like we do on earth minus anything sinful and for Christians, a big part of life on earth is worshipping God and that continues in heaven
@Guffguy actually, God knows AND controls. For example, He dictated that the Pharaoh will be obstinate (Gen 7:3) and that the Egyptians will be so gracious that they will give the Israelites gifts as they leave (Gen 3:19-21). God dictates your disposition so you WILL make the decisions that He wants you to make. I agree that the father should not be blamed if his son commits murder. But if the father brought his son up to be a criminal, then I think the father is an accomplice to the murder.
I have always understood it to be a relational issue. For Him and for us. To love God and for Him to love us. I don't need my wife to tell me how she views me, I already know, but it strengthens the relationship when we share how we view each other. with regard to serving I don't think God needs us at all. However He does choose to allow us opportunity to serve, this gives us far more than it gives Him.
I think that God made this universe that we now live in. If the sin in the garden did not happen man would not physically die and the spiritual connection between man and God would not have been broken and this universe would not have been cursed...We would have had forever to explore and experience God through unbroken fellowship with him and all that he had made. In the end Jesus will not only restore man to what he was but also the creation that was tainted as well.
The bible's idea of eternal life is this: it is NOT for everybody;so God decides WHO gets it. So what happens if you qualify? The bible is silent on this. Letting your imagination run wild will do you no good. Rest assured it will be better than what you think.
The bible's idea of eternal life is this: it is NOT for everybody and God decides WHO gets it. So what happens if you qualify? The bible is silent on this. Letting your imagination run wild will do you no good. Rest assured it's better than what you think.
Well, I don't know what all this hubalu is going on with this response thread as of late, but back to the topic at hand and that is TQFC #22. I personally don't have a problem with eternal service to our God in the afterlife since I'm sure it would be in the form of eternal service to my fellow souls in some way beyond comprehension right now. Christ said something about "Do unto others..." and "Love one another", so I can see this as a good sign that eternity could easily be eternal service.
1) You claim that atheism allows children to be killed by the millions for being 'inconvenient' for reasons you've yet to specify. Lets see how your god treats children shall we?
"Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" -1 samuel 15:3 We see genocide, including infanticide right there.
Do you recall the killing of all first born Egyptians, including. yes the infants? See exodus. Further this event is praised in...
@dmac1170 If your one word, abortion, is in reference to your claim that atheism causes children to be killed, a) medically zygotes aren't considered children b) abortion is not some kind of atheist doctrine, like christians or others some atheists support it others do not c) abortion is legal in the usa, one of the largest christian dominated societies in the world, so how you think atheists are responsible for that is anyone's guess.
@humanistheart It's much more plausible as opposed to eternal life or eternal suffering, souls simply transferring over to another is much more idealistic, you wouldn't think? It's "fictional", but the idea is very sane in my mind. Similar to religious dogma, even though I've experienced my previous life commiting suicide, It's not verifiable and this information is indeed useless, lol.
everyone has eternal life. some will spend it with God others will not. you choose.oh yeah you need to shave that crap off your face you look like a douche.
@dmac1170 Why would you want to spend an eternity with a monster who in your fictional bible commits mass genocide, infanticide, racism, sexism, homophobia, child abuse and the raping of women.
Lets not be too ethnocentric. In the OT these things may be discussed but that is not unique to the Bible. Other ancient texts have similar negative characteristics, and yet are not judged as harshly. Your question is an excellent one. Why would anyone want to go to somewhere that was exclusively prepared for them? God is not a cosmic rapist who wants to force people to spend eternity with him. He wants to give you what you want. If you want to spend eternity with him, fine, if not, fine.
@humanistheart So you want it both ways. You want to dislike/hate someone and then spend the rest of your existence with them? That's immature philosophy. You will just be spending eternity in a place where God has given to those who are anti-Christ. How bad can that be? If I'm wrong, shrug, if you're wrong, then what?
@dmac1170 "So you want it both ways. You want to dislike/hate someone and then spend the rest of your existence with them?"
One can only imagine where you got that from.
As for an immature philosophy, love me or suffer for all eternity is just about the most immature thing I've ever heard. You're god has the maturity of a psychopath.
"are anti-Christ" How ironic, as jesus was an anti-christ, ie, the opposite of all the christ was to be.
@humanistheart Did you have a point in that tirade? or were you just throwing bombs? I guess that is what the neo-atheist is. Looking at your last point " jesus was an anti-christ, ie, the opposite of all the christ was to be." What was Christ to be? How did Jesus not fulfill the Christ-ly characteristics?
@dmac1170 The messiah (Christ being a translation of this word) was to be a warrior who established a free kingdom of Israel, in the holy land. Jesus did neither of those things. The Christ was to be anointed king of Israel, which did not happen, he was to lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance yet jesus disregarded and changed torah when he pleased. The messiah was to end the Jewish diaspora, but thanks to believe in jesus it only worsened. Jesus did nothing a messiah was to do, and
@dmac1170 in several instances, such as the changing of torah or worsening of the diaspora, did the OPPOSITE of what the messiah was to do, thus ANTI-christ.
Typical christian, you don't know anything about the messianic prophecies or your own history.
@humanistheart Great, now we're getting somewhere. You're right to point at me and say that I don't know messianic prophecies as I should, but wrong in adding my own history. I do know Christian history. Maybe not to the extent that you do as a religious studies major. You are taking the prophecies in a literal sense when they are meant metaphorically. ie raining cats n' dogs -->heavy rain. I would love to address each of your points and would love Bible references. pt 2 though is wrong
@dmac1170 "You are taking the prophecies in a literal sense when they are meant metaphorically." One problem with that is that if you're willing to interpret the prophecies in a way consistent with a persons life, in this case your biblical jesus, rather than finding someone that actually meets them, you can do it for anyone. I could say Hitler was the messiah, you can't truly say that's any less valid than for jesus.
@humanistheart You could say that anyone was the messiah, and you would be wrong. Eg Hitler-not a prophet like Moses Deut 18:15-19, and when did hitler ride enter Jerusalem riding a donkey Zech 9:9, or sold for 30 pieces of silver 11:12-13?
@dmac1170 You'll note that a) the scripture has jesus straddling both a colt AND a donkey. What did he have one foot on each desperately trying to balance? It was a very awkward way for the author to try and have jesus fulfill prophecies.
And it's interesting you say hitler was not a prophet, because jesus would also fail in the category, so if you're not discounting jesus on that point, you cannot discount hitler.
@humanistheart One last thought though, to explain my earlier comment on jesus not being a prophet, I said that for 2 reasons. The first is that the official jewish position is that true revelation must occur to the jewish nation as a whole. You'll note for them no single rabbi or figure equivalent to say, the pope or muhhamid, exists. And in their commentary in the Talmud we see that no rabbi, regardless of how highly held in esteem has final say on any interpretation of the scripture or torah
@humanistheart Further they maintain that the core territory of israel (as the land for the temple was specifically ordained by god and promised to them forever in several covenants) must be held by the jewish people for true prophecy to occur. That is why the beginning of regular prophets and the ending was all in the period after israel was established and ended after their fall. Since rome controlled the land at the time and many jews were already in the diaspora, they conclude that
@humanistheart no one from that time could be a true prophet. (Although I admit that's odd, since the messiah was to be a prophet, and establish a great and free nation. Which seems somewhat contradictory, unless one concludes that he could be qualified after the land was freed which he was to do.)
I also say this because biblically speaking jesus' prophecies didn't seem to come true. For instance it's implied that he'd be dead for 3 days and 3 nights, but if you think about it, he died on
@dmac1170 "Is it really implausible that he changed rides?" The passages don't indicate that, plus it would beg the question of why would he?
"How many days did you just list? Does making his resurrection occur over a full 72 hour time frame make it more or less believable? " More or less believable? Not for me. But, it says three days and three nights, and friday night to sunday morning is not 3 days and 3 nights. One would expect a bit more accuracy from a prophet/god.
Praise to God is more for the one who praises. In our own inadequacies, we realize how great God is and give Him the glory. It makes us humble and helps us realize that there is a power much greater than ourselves who is the source of all things. When people feel they are it and there is nothing more than themselves they become selfish and arrogant and trust more in themselves than God which leads to spiritual destruction. God wants us to mature and grow spiritually in love.
horseman528 2 months ago
We are God's children. He loves us and wants us to be with Him forever. He built us with a soul. The soul is something that will live eternally. When we die, the sould will live eternally with God for those who place their trust in Chirst. For those who don't, the soul will live eternally apart from God in a place called hell. If you had a child you might understand this concept. It has something to do with love. God wants us with Him. Why do you reject the love of God?
kimkerchner 2 months ago
this is why I am an athiest
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Iwant2move2france 4 months ago
One second thought.... nahhh.
TheRobGD 4 months ago
I've been wondering this for years... Maybe I'll ask Pastor Nate. ;)
TheRobGD 4 months ago
Eternal life isen't just about Heaven. Jesus Christ Himself IS eternal life. Everyone who truly believes in Him has eternal life.
Eternal life occurs the second you receive The Holy Spirit, then you pass over from life to death. Any man without Gods Spirit in him is a dead man, spiritually dead. And he cannot, nor does he want to praise and worship God.
A natural man loves his sin and hates a Holy God.
AlexfromNorway 5 months ago
Dude, its not just praising and worshipping GOd, its also an eternal relationship with our Creator. He created us so He wants usto be involved in all the plans that He places and involved inruling with Him. YES, praise n worship is part of it. Nothing wrong with that. Plus the bible says, His mercies are new everymorning. I dont think you'll be bored in heaven if you're always going to see new stuff every morning in heaven. If you don't wanna have eternal life in heaven, then youcan go to hell.
phatzky 6 months ago
@phatzky Any being that wants to be worshiped has a megalomaniac complex.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart God is not one of those "any beings" :)
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky True, because it doesn't exist. You have to exist to be anything.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart He just doesn't exist in you :)
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky Or anyone else, because he's a fictional character. Which is good since he was a genocidal maniac who kills children in his stories.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart I guess that doesn't count Satan who actually killed countless of people from getting Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. God? a Genocidal maniac? That's non-sense compared to what Satan did...
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky Is it? Satans just as fictional as your 'god' (calling god God is like calling a dog Dog by the way). Well lets think, who decided to put the fruit there in the first place? Who decided to eat the fruit in this fictional story? And where exactly was satan? Oh right, he wasn't there even in the fiction, because he wasn't invented by hebrew lor yet. Satan actually only makes one single appeareance in the 'OT', in job.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@phatzky Also, why even bring satan up? Even if he had killed people, which biblically he doesn't do, it sounds like your saying it's okay for Yahweh to kill because one of his creations sort of did. Not a great defense there.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart This is what you don't get. Adam and Eve are free to do anything. God allows evil to be present in order for us to exercise our own will to worship Him. It is up to them to choose good or evil. Choose life or death. Obviously both has its results. We were meant to be immortals until Satan came along to tempt them. If it wasn't for him, Adam and Eve wouldn't have eaten the fruit. So because of that, we all die. He did not will for humans to die but yes! He knew its going to happen!
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky You keep saying Satan tempted them (using the very thing Yahweh put there in the first place no less) but go back and read genesis. You'll see there is not one single mention of Satan. Read the rest of the OT. Satan's not the one committing mass genocide, or infanticide, or allowing slavery or rape. That's all Yahweh. You're trying to use satan as a scape goat to avoid the unconscionable acts of Yahweh.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart I dunno why atheists likes to look at the "bad side" of God while He's also forgiving and merciful. Why look the other way whilst the other is better? We don't have control of God. He is willing to show mercy to those who asks for it. Plus, Satan was in the Garden according to Ezekiel 28:13. Plus when God cursed the serpent, God speaks of a prophecy the promise of a Savior from the seed of the woman to which will take a whole lot of paragrahp to explain. Yes! Satan was the serpent
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky "He's also forgiving and merciful. " Two reasons. One, doing some good things does not override the horrible things. You cannot be good when you're doing so much bad. And second, think about what you said. How is Yahweh merciful? We do things he doesn't like and once in a while he throws you a bone? So what?? And no, there's no mention of Satan in Ezekiel.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart Well what can you do? He's God and you're not! You/We will never understand why He did what He did. You’re saying that God cannot be good? I can quote you verses that God is good. You only like to see the “tyrant” side of God and don’t want to see His goodness. You don’t want to accept the fact that His goodness is available to anyone who desires it. Once in a while?? You won't get anything if you DON'T ask!
phatzky 5 months ago
Respond to this video... "I can quote you verses that God is good." So what, simply writing something down doesn't make it true. I can quote you the verses where he slaughters children, allows slavery and rape, and so on. To argue the biblical god is good is to argue infanticide and genocide and slavery and rape are good.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart Ok, you're confusing things here again. I can't explain why God told his prophets/kings to do them but this is due to the fact that people have disobeyed and there are consequences that follows and unfortunately, women and children become part of it. I can't completely answer that. Only God can. (Please don't add rape, this was never involved) But to those who obey Him, He shows favour, strength and goodness. This all goes back to choices again!
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky Some people over here disobeyed me so I'm going to kill men women and children, allow rape and slavery and spousal and child abuse? That's insane. How can you believe that garbage?
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Like I said, I personally don't know why would God kill men women and children. (And please, again, don't add rape and even child abuse, can you tell me where it said that?) How can I believe that "garbage"? Its because Jesus had to come so these things wont happen again!
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Jesus had to come so those things wouldn't happen again? Christians have been committing mass genocide, making war, slaughtering innocents for centuries. And why shouldn't they? If their god did it they can do it. If he's all powerful, and all knowing he could think of a better way, but he didn't. Probably because those fictional stories are a product of the savage ignorant time they came out of.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart unfortunately you're only bringing up what has happened in the past. We do realise the outcome of our mistakes and yes they did put a bad name to christianity. Do you see me killing people? Do you see other Christians killing people nowadays? That was their own interpretation. Jesus did say to love one another, but surely not many Christians followed that. Don't judge us for what what "Christians" in the past did...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky The christian US is in the middle of a holy war with the muslim middle east. There's still slaughtering happening in the south american continent, also predominantly catholic. Ireland still battles between catholics and protestants, and the highest crime rates in the world are found predominantly in christian countries. So yeah, I do still see christians killing people. Not that that was the point.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart And you say those things were in the OT, so what? If you think they happened, does time temper the horridness of them? I don't think so.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart And no, Christians aren't muslims. They have a TOTAL different belief of God. You can compare us to Catholics and protestans, but we're not muslims...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky And I never said christians were muslims, I said they're at war with them. But their religion is a offshoot just as christianity is a failed reform movement of judaism.
humanistheart 4 months ago
Respond to this video... As for jesus saying love one another, if you believe this god is loving, than it means nothing as said love didn't stop it from killing, abuse, slavery, rape etc. So what?
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Old testament is then, New Testament is now. Yes, I do agree that there are catholics and protestants are still battling it out, but I'm not categorised as one of them, neither my family or the church I go to. I'm no catholic, or a protestant. I know there are other denominations out there but our doctrines are not the same. Loving one another is the main message to Christianity. Its still the person's choice to love another person.
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky No, the NT is a book, you don't live in a book.
And loving one another is completely meaningless. Did god's 'love' stop him from committing genocide or infanticide? No. Did his love stop him from torturing people? No. Love means nothing in the abrahamic religions.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart I'll say it again, that's why Jesus had to come so this whole "tyranny" won't happen again...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Then I'll say it again, it never had to happen in the first place (and it actually didn't since they're just stories, but even biblically it didn't have to happen at all.)
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart It all goes back to Genesis again from creation of Adam and Eve to the temptation of the serpent. Okay, you should read it and see it in God's position. Try to put away the "tyranny" mindset just for this time and keep an open mind. I'm sure its not gonna hurt you. Its all that I ask. Please. And let me know what you saw. Key words that I want you to see here also are "in God's likeness/image".
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky I'm familiar with genesis, probably more than yourself. Nothing in there changes anything I've said.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart You didn't read it... You just need to read it again and see it in a different point of view for once! But I won't force you. Cheers...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Has it occurred to you that you may be the one that needs to look at it from a different point of view? Might I suggest a more objective and factually based one?
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Sorry, but, I asked first :)
phatzky 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@phatzky Asking is a question, you didn't ask, you suggested.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Fine, I suggested first... :)
phatzky 4 months ago
@humanistheart In fact I have, for a while. But i looked back at Genesis again and again, and saw that it was never God's fault at the beginning. It was us. If only Adam and Eve didn't CHOOSE to eat the fruit.
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Everything in adam and eve was put there but Yahweh in your religion yes? The serpent that tricked eve, all the genetics and experience that led them to choose that was given to them by Yahweh. If you design something specifically to do something, then it does, do you get made at the design or the designer?
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Yes it was all there. But just like the rest of us, Adam and Eve had the power to decide whether to choose to eat the fruit or not, even though being tempted by the serpent. God has set out life and death before them in the garden and its up for them to choose. God wants them to also practice making wise decisions that's why He had to put the tree there. God already warned them that they will die if they eat the fruit. That's simple enough. Its up for them to take heed.
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky No, you don't quite understand. In an all knowing all powerful creator schema, free will is impossible. You and I feel that we have free will because we do, because no gods exist. See my video concerning free will and a god.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Impossible? No, it is you that didn't understand. You can do things u wanna do. That's free will. I chose life over death. Coz I prefer heaven than hell. I also chose goodness over evil. I help people in need voluntarily &help bring justice with the best of my ability to those who need it. If free will is impossible, then, why is it I can choose and see my own destiny? Its UP TO ME to sway from my destiny. Plus, if there's no God, then u wouldn't have existed. :)
phatzky 4 months ago
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@phatzky "No, it is you that didn't understand. You can do things u wanna do. " Yes, I can, because I have free will, which is just another prove your god doesn't exist. Because if he did, we would not have free will as everything would be predetermined.
"If free will is impossible, then, why is it I can choose and see my own destiny?" Because your god doesn't exist, thus we do have free will. If he did, we wouldn't.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@phatzky "Loving one another is the main message to Christianity. "
Love has no meaning in christianity.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Just for you... You just don't see what some of us actually do when it comes to loving one another. Or you just CHOOSE not to see it...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky I stated my case with biblical references regaurding the religion.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart That's ok. God still wants to show His love for you. He just won't be able to give it to you if you don't choose to receive it. :)
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky If he were real that would scare me, as previously mentioned love seems to be expressed in horrifying ways in the judeo-christian scriptures.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Dude, He created you. Don't be scared of Him. There are many good things that He did in the old testament as well. I really don't know why you like to delve on the "bad side". Christians revere God just as how we revere Kings and Queens, but in a most higher reverence, because we know we're created by Him. The offer's there man. If you wanna keep on delving on bad side, go ahead. Not stopping you. That's your part of free will. God bless :)
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Humans created gods.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Sure... try disproving God's existence with your scientific claim. I'd like to see you try!
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky A) the burden of proof is on you B) It's easy to disprove the abrahamic god, in many ways.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Neither can you disprove His existence...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky It's just something someone made up until proven otherwise. Do you need to disprove the idea tht I shit out the universe? It's ridiculuous to assert that you should.
And incedentally yes I can. Omnicience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive concepts, but people believe the abrahaic god has both. Since that's impossible, it's impossible for it to exist.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart You want proof? Just have faith in God and you will see. Jesus Himself said, blessed are those who believed before they see... :)
Was that it? Of course its possible for God, you just don't wanna believe He can do everything...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Faith isn't proof. If anything that's counterproductive to proof, as you're basically saying that you need to believe in something before anything will look like proof of it.
Nope, it's impossible to be both omniscient and omnipotent, they are mutually exclusive concepts.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart What? You're scared to put your faith so you can see for yourself that He's real? It doesn't hurt buddy...
No, you don't understand. As it says in the scriptures, God's ways and God's mind are higher than man's ways and man's mind. It seems impossible for man to conceive them in thoughts, but everything's possible to God :) You can't contain, neither, (if I could use the word) 'tame', God.
phatzky 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@phatzky "As it says in the scriptures, God's ways and God's mind are higher than man's ways and man's mind. It seems "
And the problems with being all knowing/powerful are written down in the God Delusion, in Plato's writing, in many paces here on youtube and so on. By your logic, since its written down, you can't argue with it. Saying it's in 'the scriptures' means nothing here.
humanistheart 4 months ago
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phatzky 4 months ago
@humanistheart You can't place God in human reasoning or logic. He's way beyond that. He surpasses all wisdom and understanding.
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky He's beyond logic and reasoning? Well that would explain his bi-polar personality in the bibles, but still, some things are inexcapable.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart That doesn't make sense. You're just resorting to mocking our belief. Some things are inexcapable? Like what?
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Logic, for one. And saying god outside didn't make sense, nor saying faith is evidence, or calling the abrhamic god loving.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart 1) As I said previously he cannot be contained in human minds, nor (if I can use the word) be tamed... I don't claim to fully understand God, cz I know He's thoughts are way higher than mine. It mit be an understatement but, that's just who He is... 2) You do need faith in order to see. Its a gateway if I could use that term. That's another part where He goes beyond human logic. 3) God has every right to be angry and has every right to love...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Saying one needs faith to see something means it's not real. Because you can only see it when your desperately trying to convince yourself of it.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart If you think about it, there have been a lot of athiests that had committed Genocide throughout history as well... don't try to put all the blame onto us... communism familiar to you? Still going nowadays as well...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Yes communism was a fraudulent claim on your part, given that it was a political thing, not a religion thing. Plus the cults of personality that can only be described as theistic. And communism only existed for a century, theists have been causing problems for thousands of years. There is no comparison there.
humanistheart 4 months ago
Respond to this video... Yet who created this satan? Well christians, but in your religion you belive god did, so he'd be responsible for him. Plus you ignore that in job satan can do NOTHING without this gods permission, so how could he be responsible for anything?
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Sorry wrong move on my side, ignore communism. Just realised its not atheism...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Child Abuse: Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15
So a little kid hits their parent and they get killed. If that's not what you call child abuse I can only hope you don't have children, no offense.
f one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart This is the old testament. This doesn't happen anymore. Do you see that happen nowadays with Christians??
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Spousal abuse: But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21
humanistheart 4 months ago
@phatzky Rape: Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Okay... can you define rape for me exactly...
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky And while it's not as evident, here is more examples: Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Yes indeed Satan was the serpent. Satan has been described as the Serpent of old in revelations. There's no doubt its Satan. The bible doesn't have to mention its him. The description clarifies it.
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky Hardly, there's numerous mentions of serpents, as well as just using it as an insult. It's only in hindsight that Christians decided to merge the characters together, thus you think it mentions him. It does not.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart Yes it does mention its him :)
No symbolic or insulting to his character about that...
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky There is only one mention of satan in the entire hebrew scriptures, in Job. Deal with it.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart The bible described Satan as the accuser, the deceiver, the lion seeking whom he may devour, Serpent of old and the dragon in Revelations, the Devil, the enemy of our souls. His name not needed to be mentioned when everyone knows its him. Satan uses these characters so the wrath of God would come to humanity :)
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky Yes, in REVELATIONS. The very last book of the CHRISTIAN bible. The HEBREW scriptures only have him in one single mention, in Job, where he is described as a child of god, who can do nothing without gods permission. You say 'when everyone knows him' but that's a retcon. Lets pretend for a moment that there really was a god. You're telling me that in the thousands of years after he chose abraham as the father of his people that he didn't once bother to mention to them that...
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart I personally don't why he's not mentioned. I don't know what goes on in God's mind back then. You can ask Him that, but since you don't believe, you won't get your answer :)
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky ...there just happened to be this fallen angel that was trying to get them to sin against him since the beginning of earth? That doesn't seem like an important enough detail to mention at some point?
No, the bottom line is satan appears once, in job.
And you're also claiming that this god of yours lets satan manipulate him? Interesting claim.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart No, not implying that SAtan's trying to manipulate God at all. This is comes to the consequences of man's disobedience and whoever follows Satan's temptations... God can only say stop doing what they're doing, but if they still do, obviously there are consequences.
phatzky 4 months ago
@humanistheart Wait i should say it correctly. Satan, with these characteristics, enforced to humans, so He would push God to bring down His wrath to humanity.
phatzky 4 months ago
@phatzky 2) If he created them knowing they would do something he didn't like than he was creating them to do something he didn't like. It's called predetermination. Free will literally cannot exist in a omniscient context. See my video concerning free will. It's explained there how it's impossible.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart So if you don't have free will, You don't have complete control of your speech and movements and thinking patterns. That's just how I understand it. Its either one, or the other... Its funny because you keep going back to OT while the NT states that He has placed all judgement of our sins to His One and Only Son so we can know complete forgiveness. Why did it take so long for Him to do that? I don't know. Ask God...
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky Yes, if someone creates all factors and lets it run, as in the beliefs of the abrahamic religions, than all was pre-set to occur before it did. That's not free will.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart Yes I agree with predetermination but that doesn’t mean we can’t choose what we want to do in life. We were all destined to be in hell but if we accept Christ’s sacrifice, we become destined to be with Him for the rest of eternity. Don't you want to choose mercy?
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky No, destiny means it unchanging by definition. You can't say we were 'destined' for hell (which you think you're god created which would mean he was destined to create it which means he has no free will either) but there's a way out because then that's not destiny by definition.
humanistheart 5 months ago
@humanistheart Why is it that you don't see that we are able to make choices (even eternal choices) in life? THUS, destiny can be changed! When we make a choice and turn it to a habit, destiny follows it. What doesn't change is your fate. Don't confuse the words! Fate tells us that we can't get out of death. But destiny tells us there's life after death (If you believe in God of course). You can choose your destiny! Adam and Eve had a choice! You have a choice!
phatzky 5 months ago
@phatzky "THUS, destiny can be changed!" By definition, if it can be changed, it's not destiny.
humanistheart 4 months ago
@humanistheart Ok im wrong on the change part. But that doesn't mean you can't decide to get out of it :). With Fate, its inevitable. There's no way out of Fate
phatzky 4 months ago
Man was created to rule. God put all things under man.
That also includes the universe.
Cloyde100 7 months ago
From the Westminster Shorter Catechism:
Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.
Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?
A. The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
nilzor 7 months ago
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nilzor 7 months ago
I think the thought has been twisted. God is known as the Father, yes? And we are to honor our Mother & Father,Yes? The word "Serve" I think is another word used for control because while I do hear people speak about "Serving God" following the rules and the teaching of Jesus. Worshiping is giving Honor. I hear it more as "Serving the Church". And while Church is supposed to be there for people to congregate & learn about God. It has become a society of it's own with it own political agendas.
etonks 8 months ago
********MATTHEW 25:21*****************
"His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
YOU WILL SERVE GOD BY RULING OVER ANGELS IN HEAVEN (MAYBE GALAXIES AND OTHER BEINGS?). GOD ALREADY TOLD US THAT THE ANGELS SERVE US BECAUSE WE ARE OF HIS FINEST CREATIONS....they honor us when we die
shootomatic 8 months ago
God benefits nothing from us serving him or praising him we do! and think about it you serve the state the laws sin satan yourself and the world thats what you! eternal life we will only serve God and it will be great an amazing i can only imagine what it will be like! whats so great about this world???
MissChaceurz 9 months ago
serving God is amazing why would you not want to serve a mighty all powerful all knowing God who loves you! serving God is an act of humility and trust..we do not have the strength and power to overcome satan sin and the world so by serving God whom we trust we serve ourselves and others! praising God well words cannot describe it is so overwelming and graceful peacful and powerful don't knock it till you try it!
MissChaceurz 9 months ago
[Part 2 of 2 ]
If we only live, and die, what is the point of this existence if there is no final justice?
The Dad (God) wants justice for His kids' blood.Those murderers are brought forth and face eternal judgment in Hell. Which is fair at least I think so. But God is good, and if they sincerely ask forgiveness, He graciously gives it to them. So the question is not the purpose of eternal life, but where you will spend it? In judgment, or at the Father's side in Heaven. Just a point of view :)
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@mannymtz01 Just because the idea sounds appealing doesn't mean there's any truth to it. According to your logic & theology a pastor who raped a child and honestly repents afterwards goes to heaven, but the child who grew up not wanting anything to do with churches or religions gets eternal torture after leaving his/her miserable f*cked up life. Some justice. Some merciful all loving God.
TherionNLD 9 months ago
@TherionNLD Both are sinners in the world and both have equal oppurtunities to repent of those sins and go to Heaven. Its perfectly fair and logical, and that is what God is....perfectly fair and logical. Thats kinda how he got the position lol.
zestydude87 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
Okay, so that's the solution Christ offers. Problem: sin. Solution: Jesus Christ.
I agree that this world is sick, twisted, and it's hard to see God's goodness in it all.
But apart from Jesus' free gift of salvation, what better solution to our problem of sin would you offer, or what other ideology would help you sleep at night if not the love of God?
Because in Christ, we are cleansed, of sin we've done and sin done to us. We're made children of God, adopted to a better life.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
THAT'S the truth and that's the logic in it all. That Jesus said "come to me all you who are burdened..and I will give you rest.." That He alone has the power to redeem us and clean us of all evil we've done and has been done to us, and that He himself will give us peace if we ask Him for it. Your example is very much true to today's world where more and more cases like this emerge. But after a life of carrying that, Jesus says, "I'll carry your burdens. I will give you a new life."
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
He offers this to everyone. To me, to you, to that child, to that pastor who committed this heinous crime. He died on the cross taking upon Himself every sin you and I commit in thought,, word, deed, and motive. Since the penalty for sin is death we deserve to die. Jesus chose to take OUR punishment and DIED. But on the third day, at His resurrection, He showed us that He defeated sin and all He asks is that we let Him help us. Cleansing is in Him. WE choose.to accept or deny Him.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
...this loving and just God is indeed Loving...
He says to the victim child, "I want to help and love you, come to me."
He says to the criminal pastor, "I want to forgive you, come to me."
He says to you and me, "I want to save you, come to me."
So ultimately, the road is wide open. We drive. We can choose to listen to Jesus and seek Him. Or we can reject His gift. So in the end we go where we choose to go and the outcome is fair, because we choose where to end up. Heaven or Hell.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@mannymtz01 It's not a gift. If it was a gift it would be free, no strings attached. The child victim in my case would die, go to heaven and Jesus would say "I love you, even if you didn't believe in me in your time on earth, if you accept my gift now you'll be saved". But no, the gift expires as soon as you're aware that there's any truth to supernatural claims of an afterlife, then it's too late and you burn for eternity. It's not a gift it's a mindf*ck.
TherionNLD 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
You disagree that's okay, its your opinion. When you receive a gift it's yours. But you still have to unwrap it. Thats how salvation-cleansing-eternal life is. Jesus offers& gives it to us. He wont FORCE it on us. We still have to sign for it and say that we DO want it. That's why its a gift. God allows us to choose to open it or not. As for the child if he wasn't old enough 2 understand the gospel and died He automatically gets to be with God because his mind was innocent.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@mannymtz01
and trust me, unfortunately in this world we live in, that child won't be the only innocent one to be with God in the end. More and more innocent kids are being abused and murdered, but God won't let them end up in Hell, because they are innocent. The Gospel is not about church or religion. All religions say work hard so maybe God will love you. Jesus' Gospel says, God ALREADY loves you just look at that cross and what HE HIMSELF did on it. Died for you and for me.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@mannymtz01 So if Hitler died when he was young he'd go to heaven... And the most loving thing a parent could do is to kill their own children, why risk them eternal torture when you can send them to eternal bliss right now? This life is nothing compared to eternity right? The logic of Christianity always breaks down when you actually stop and think about it.
TherionNLD 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
I admit its impossible to know every aspect of God, and thanks for these conversations, they help me think if I'm REALLY a Christian. What I would avoid, would be to place myself on a throne and judge God. I am not God.Pride is the original sin that got Satan kicked out of Heaven. It's wiser to just tap-out and be humble, because He is God. I would also avoid a bunch of what-if questions and ask myself where I am with God.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
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mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
I would also urge you to ask yourself this question. In the end Muslim, Roman Catholic, Christian, Jew, Mormon, etc.. All will stand in front of God. He will ask us individually why we deserve to live forever in Paradise? If our answer is anything but: "I don't, but Jesus died in my place for my sins and I love Him as Lord.", then Hell awaits. Whether you believe in it or not, Hell is real and many ppl choose to go there. I urge you to ask yourself where you are with God.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@mannymtz01 Nobody chooses to go to hell. Have you accepted Joseph Smith as a prophet and adhere to his teachings? No? Then you choose, by your own logic, to go to the Telestial Kingdom for eternity, outside of the presence of God. I was raised mormon so I know this stuff. See how your own logic breaks down when you view it from someone else's point of view who wasn't raised in your religion?
TherionNLD 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
Okay,I see what you're saying. The thing is, I accept only Jesus as Savior. This God-Man made a claim no other world religion's founder dared to make. Jesus Christ said HE IS GOD. Neither the Buddha, nor Muhammad, nor Zoroaster, nor Krishna, nor Joseph Smith made this claim. Jesus Christ stands alone as the ONLY founder of any faith that claimed to be God himself. How many other people do you see making his claim? Those who do don't get very far and ppl dismiss them as lunatics.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
look at the impact Jesus' claim and resurrection has had on the world. Orthodox Jews in the 1st century stopped worshiping on Sabbath and Started worshiping on Sunday the day of His resurrection. The Sabbath to them was one of the biggest commandments. People started using the Cross as a symbol, which today would be the equal of someone wearing an electric chair as a necklace. People started worshiping Jesus as God. What logic would you use to explain all these things?
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
apart from Jesus' claim of divinity and resurrection, there's no logical way to explain any of the events I mentioned. Jesus Christ is the only one to claim to be God and have such an enormous impact on the world and even on those who don't believe in Him. That's why even with all the logic in the world people, myself included, choose to accept Jesus' words and prophecies and of salvation as truth.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@TherionNLD
The gifts offer expires when we die. So as long as we're breathing, we have a chance to accept, unwrap, and enjoy this gift. It's all a matter of wanting to be cleansed, wanting an eternal life in the presence of God who promised us He would wipe every tear from our eye, and accepting Him saying, "Yes I am a sinner. I need a redeemer to save me from my sins. Jesus, you are that savior. I ask that you forgive me of ALL my sins and make me a new person. Be my Personal Savior and Lord.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
[Part 1 of 2 :) ]
As for the purpose of eternal life, well I'll respectfully give you a viewpoint and you can choose to see it from another perspective...if you want of course :)
Atheists don't believe in a life after this one. We're born, we live, we die, end of show. So let's say there's a family (hypothetically). Dad really loves his children, but one of his daughters is kidnapped, repeatedly raped, and tragically murdered. The Dad of the family will want nothing more than justice right?...
mannymtz01 9 months ago
Good questions dude! They get me thinking beyond memorized, religious responses!
God doesn't NEED us. He was perfectly fine living by Himself in perfect unity with the Son and Spirit. He made us because He WANTS us. Analogy: A couple who want a child but can't have one because of medical problems. So they opt for adoption, not because they NEED a child, but because they WANT a child to love and take care of.
mannymtz01 9 months ago
@mannymtz01 Love your analogy.... i never thought of it that way and it helps me when talking to non believers. Thanks!
zestydude87 9 months ago
@zestydude87 How can you love that analogy? It makes no sense at all. Wishing for something doesn't make it so (to quote Jean-Luc Picard lol). Read my previous reply.
TherionNLD 9 months ago
eternal life is earth in heaven minus everything that came after the fall of man - pain, disease, hardship, tears, darkness etc- everything that is of the devil. earth is a crash course on living a goodlife cos in heaven there's no trace of sin or evil. i understand that in heaven we live our lives like we do on earth minus anything sinful and for Christians, a big part of life on earth is worshipping God and that continues in heaven
sweetdietqueen 9 months ago
@Guffguy actually, God knows AND controls. For example, He dictated that the Pharaoh will be obstinate (Gen 7:3) and that the Egyptians will be so gracious that they will give the Israelites gifts as they leave (Gen 3:19-21). God dictates your disposition so you WILL make the decisions that He wants you to make. I agree that the father should not be blamed if his son commits murder. But if the father brought his son up to be a criminal, then I think the father is an accomplice to the murder.
michael161010 10 months ago
Make him macaroni pictures. And those pie plate rattles. He likes those....
seeker6789 10 months ago
I have always understood it to be a relational issue. For Him and for us. To love God and for Him to love us. I don't need my wife to tell me how she views me, I already know, but it strengthens the relationship when we share how we view each other. with regard to serving I don't think God needs us at all. However He does choose to allow us opportunity to serve, this gives us far more than it gives Him.
stephjh2006 11 months ago
I think that God made this universe that we now live in. If the sin in the garden did not happen man would not physically die and the spiritual connection between man and God would not have been broken and this universe would not have been cursed...We would have had forever to explore and experience God through unbroken fellowship with him and all that he had made. In the end Jesus will not only restore man to what he was but also the creation that was tainted as well.
theflarpus 11 months ago
It's not for Him, it's for us
plxiglasss 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The bible's idea of eternal life is this: it is NOT for everybody;so God decides WHO gets it. So what happens if you qualify? The bible is silent on this. Letting your imagination run wild will do you no good. Rest assured it will be better than what you think.
IMNODOCTOR 1 year ago
The bible's idea of eternal life is this: it is NOT for everybody and God decides WHO gets it. So what happens if you qualify? The bible is silent on this. Letting your imagination run wild will do you no good. Rest assured it's better than what you think.
IMNODOCTOR 1 year ago
Well, I don't know what all this hubalu is going on with this response thread as of late, but back to the topic at hand and that is TQFC #22. I personally don't have a problem with eternal service to our God in the afterlife since I'm sure it would be in the form of eternal service to my fellow souls in some way beyond comprehension right now. Christ said something about "Do unto others..." and "Love one another", so I can see this as a good sign that eternity could easily be eternal service.
dmaRules 1 year ago
1) You claim that atheism allows children to be killed by the millions for being 'inconvenient' for reasons you've yet to specify. Lets see how your god treats children shall we?
"Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" -1 samuel 15:3 We see genocide, including infanticide right there.
Do you recall the killing of all first born Egyptians, including. yes the infants? See exodus. Further this event is praised in...
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart abortion
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 If your one word, abortion, is in reference to your claim that atheism causes children to be killed, a) medically zygotes aren't considered children b) abortion is not some kind of atheist doctrine, like christians or others some atheists support it others do not c) abortion is legal in the usa, one of the largest christian dominated societies in the world, so how you think atheists are responsible for that is anyone's guess.
humanistheart 1 year ago
1) As far as the messianic prophecies you requested citing for, the key one's the Jewish people hold as unfulfilled include:
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel, thus ending the jewish diaspora (Isaiah 43:5-6).
The jewish diaspora only worsened following the belief in jesus, and has actually been used in such genocides as the Jewish holocaust of WW2.
humanistheart 1 year ago
Rofl eternal life...no....its simply reincarnation. None of this torture and bullshit your unverifiable bible/quran preaches.
marinefrenzy 1 year ago
@marinefrenzy Reincarnation is as fictional as the bible, it's just more pleasant and more in line with justice.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart It's much more plausible as opposed to eternal life or eternal suffering, souls simply transferring over to another is much more idealistic, you wouldn't think? It's "fictional", but the idea is very sane in my mind. Similar to religious dogma, even though I've experienced my previous life commiting suicide, It's not verifiable and this information is indeed useless, lol.
marinefrenzy 1 year ago
@marinefrenzy Ideal, sure, is it more sane than eternal torment? Absolutely, not to mention just, but it's no more plausible. Fiction is fiction.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Fair enough.
marinefrenzy 1 year ago
everyone has eternal life. some will spend it with God others will not. you choose.oh yeah you need to shave that crap off your face you look like a douche.
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 Why would you want to spend an eternity with a monster who in your fictional bible commits mass genocide, infanticide, racism, sexism, homophobia, child abuse and the raping of women.
humanistheart 1 year ago
Lets not be too ethnocentric. In the OT these things may be discussed but that is not unique to the Bible. Other ancient texts have similar negative characteristics, and yet are not judged as harshly. Your question is an excellent one. Why would anyone want to go to somewhere that was exclusively prepared for them? God is not a cosmic rapist who wants to force people to spend eternity with him. He wants to give you what you want. If you want to spend eternity with him, fine, if not, fine.
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 "God is not a cosmic rapist who wants to force people to spend eternity with him."
Love me or suffer for all eternity. Hard to trust a being like that.
humanistheart 1 year ago
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dmac1170 1 year ago
@humanistheart So you want it both ways. You want to dislike/hate someone and then spend the rest of your existence with them? That's immature philosophy. You will just be spending eternity in a place where God has given to those who are anti-Christ. How bad can that be? If I'm wrong, shrug, if you're wrong, then what?
dmac1170 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dmac1170 "So you want it both ways. You want to dislike/hate someone and then spend the rest of your existence with them? "
One can only imagine how you came to that conclusion.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@dmac1170 "So you want it both ways. You want to dislike/hate someone and then spend the rest of your existence with them?"
One can only imagine where you got that from.
As for an immature philosophy, love me or suffer for all eternity is just about the most immature thing I've ever heard. You're god has the maturity of a psychopath.
"are anti-Christ" How ironic, as jesus was an anti-christ, ie, the opposite of all the christ was to be.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Did you have a point in that tirade? or were you just throwing bombs? I guess that is what the neo-atheist is. Looking at your last point " jesus was an anti-christ, ie, the opposite of all the christ was to be." What was Christ to be? How did Jesus not fulfill the Christ-ly characteristics?
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 The messiah (Christ being a translation of this word) was to be a warrior who established a free kingdom of Israel, in the holy land. Jesus did neither of those things. The Christ was to be anointed king of Israel, which did not happen, he was to lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance yet jesus disregarded and changed torah when he pleased. The messiah was to end the Jewish diaspora, but thanks to believe in jesus it only worsened. Jesus did nothing a messiah was to do, and
humanistheart 1 year ago
@dmac1170 in several instances, such as the changing of torah or worsening of the diaspora, did the OPPOSITE of what the messiah was to do, thus ANTI-christ.
Typical christian, you don't know anything about the messianic prophecies or your own history.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Great, now we're getting somewhere. You're right to point at me and say that I don't know messianic prophecies as I should, but wrong in adding my own history. I do know Christian history. Maybe not to the extent that you do as a religious studies major. You are taking the prophecies in a literal sense when they are meant metaphorically. ie raining cats n' dogs -->heavy rain. I would love to address each of your points and would love Bible references. pt 2 though is wrong
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 "You are taking the prophecies in a literal sense when they are meant metaphorically." One problem with that is that if you're willing to interpret the prophecies in a way consistent with a persons life, in this case your biblical jesus, rather than finding someone that actually meets them, you can do it for anyone. I could say Hitler was the messiah, you can't truly say that's any less valid than for jesus.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart You could say that anyone was the messiah, and you would be wrong. Eg Hitler-not a prophet like Moses Deut 18:15-19, and when did hitler ride enter Jerusalem riding a donkey Zech 9:9, or sold for 30 pieces of silver 11:12-13?
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 You'll note that a) the scripture has jesus straddling both a colt AND a donkey. What did he have one foot on each desperately trying to balance? It was a very awkward way for the author to try and have jesus fulfill prophecies.
And it's interesting you say hitler was not a prophet, because jesus would also fail in the category, so if you're not discounting jesus on that point, you cannot discount hitler.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart One last thought though, to explain my earlier comment on jesus not being a prophet, I said that for 2 reasons. The first is that the official jewish position is that true revelation must occur to the jewish nation as a whole. You'll note for them no single rabbi or figure equivalent to say, the pope or muhhamid, exists. And in their commentary in the Talmud we see that no rabbi, regardless of how highly held in esteem has final say on any interpretation of the scripture or torah
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Further they maintain that the core territory of israel (as the land for the temple was specifically ordained by god and promised to them forever in several covenants) must be held by the jewish people for true prophecy to occur. That is why the beginning of regular prophets and the ending was all in the period after israel was established and ended after their fall. Since rome controlled the land at the time and many jews were already in the diaspora, they conclude that
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart no one from that time could be a true prophet. (Although I admit that's odd, since the messiah was to be a prophet, and establish a great and free nation. Which seems somewhat contradictory, unless one concludes that he could be qualified after the land was freed which he was to do.)
I also say this because biblically speaking jesus' prophecies didn't seem to come true. For instance it's implied that he'd be dead for 3 days and 3 nights, but if you think about it, he died on
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Friday night and rose on sunday morning. So that's really only saturday as a full day, and friday night and sunday morning.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart How many days did you just list? Does making his resurrection occur over a full 72 hour time frame make it more or less believable?
dmac1170 1 year ago
@humanistheart Is it really implausible that he changed rides?
dmac1170 1 year ago
@dmac1170 "Is it really implausible that he changed rides?" The passages don't indicate that, plus it would beg the question of why would he?
"How many days did you just list? Does making his resurrection occur over a full 72 hour time frame make it more or less believable? " More or less believable? Not for me. But, it says three days and three nights, and friday night to sunday morning is not 3 days and 3 nights. One would expect a bit more accuracy from a prophet/god.
humanistheart 1 year ago