Christopher Hitchens Andrew Sullivan (2 of 12)

[sgpquek]

condescending is a by product when one is fill with a kind of falsed pride base on a certain citizenship.

[450984]

Sullivan considers this a "civilized" nation. Friendly? WOW!

[whalefish83]

Osama even managed to divert NORAD that day too. Some say he also has a flying carpet, which can enter in and out of orbit at his command.

[mongobobo]

Does anyone doubt that Bin Laden is winning? US has squandered it's capital and human lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. It has ruined whatever good reputation it had left with the world. AND as a consequence of all that, millions of Muslims world wide have thrown in their lot with Bin Laden.

Osama is laughing all the way.

[Brantinger]

As if "winning" would depend on americas reputation in the world and especially with muslims who fought the west from the day they invaded the byzantine empire. america as a republic was alone after its foundation and is it today again. so what? Bin Laden as a "winner" is sitting somewhere in a cave and is afraid to stick his head out, a winner looks different in my eyes!

[polymath7]

The last caller sounds like a nice chap, but he's a tool nonetheless.

What exactly is meant by "family values"?

How does on Earth does gay marriage come at the expense of "the many" Mr Spock?

If you're going to make a consequentialist utilitarian argument, then do so;shit or get off the throne.

Tell us in lucid and specific terms exactly what harm gay marriage would cause.

This vague, otiose talk of "family values" doesn't cut any ice at all.

[niginit]

"How does on Earth does"

Oh, oh, I do believe I found an error!

lol

Jk

You're right, though. 'Family values' seems to be an argument like 'human nature', they just don't stand up to scrutiny. Especially when used to argue gay rights, or abhorrent behavior.

It seems that Einstein hit it right on the head when he said, "Common knowledge is the culmination of prejudices acquired at the age of eighteen.".

If we are to overcome common problems, we need to overcome common thought.

[polymath7]

For anyone who cares to know, If you're going to read Nietzsche in English, the Kaufmann translations are indeed among the the best, if not *the* best.

He's also superb with Goethe.

[waltermh111]

Second, we take in thousands of foriegners ayear for surgeries, and most have the money to pay out of pocket, but we have hundreds of thousands of US citizens go to other countries to get medical treatment because they cannot afford it here.

Whats the use of having the best doctors when so many people dont have access to them.

And while hospitals take people without money, its only emergency cases. I can not go in and ask for an x-ray and get one based only on the feeling I have.

[c6gunner]

So you'd rather have crap care that everyone can afford? Well, that's easy - just get some homeless people together, dress them up like witch doctors, and get them to shake a rattle for $5 an hour. Then you'll have a health care system that everyone can afford.

Here in Canada we have "free" health care (which I pay for through atrociously high taxes) yet many people in need of medical care end up going to the US and paying out of pocket. I much prefer the American approach.

[waltermh111]

Actually, only about 7000 a year come to the US for medical treatment from other countries.

Over 750k people leave the US for medical treatment yearly.

Canada also has better healthcare stats then we do despite your anecdotal evidence.

I want options. Many countries have a hyprid public/private system and it seems to work well. Everybody gets healthcare but you can pay for more individualised care if you can afford it.

Your system isnt as bad as you think. You just havent been in my shoes.

[c6gunner]

Only 7,000? Um, no. Try 60,000 to 85,000.  And since you got that stat wrong, I'm not even going to bother looking up the rest of your crap. You're free to post some documentation if you wish - until then I'll just assume you have no idea what you're talking about.

[waltermh111]

dang, cant get the links posted here, youtube is being annoying. Will try to message you with them.

Also, anybody else that wants links, I will send them.

I have links on US healthcare rank vs several first world countries.

Medical tourism data, with her stats and my own discussed.

also some discussion on healthcare issue of how much different countries like thier own systems.

[waltermh111]

I dont believe in good vs evil, and I have never liked Hitchens black and white view, even as an anti-theist myself. His militant beliefs rub me the wrong way in regards to that specific topic.

The next caller talks about how we are the greatest because hospitals take in people without money, and peopel from other countries come here to get reconstructive surgery.

First, other countries also take in people who dont have money.

[waltermh111]

Sullivan should have my experiences with americans. Though I am an american so maybe we treat each other less civily.

If you read my comments I am always trying to be civil with my discourse, but americans are quite uncivilised with many topics.

Even with everyday talk, you have to watch out with some people. Sullivan has been a very lucky man in america and very unlucky with his world travels ifhe feels this way.

[niginit]

Sullivan is just silly. Don't talk please, it makes me wince in contempt.

Morals are man-made, but that shouldn't diminish them at all. Nietzsche is vindicated by genocide and despotism. His "Uh Ah" reply was just stupid. Who gives this guy a mic to speak on such important subjects? Every time he speaks on Realtime I wish he hadn't.

Despotism and war are the signs of a sick state, no matter what the conditions are. The cure however, seems to be education, as always.

Zeitgeist=health+mind.

[polymath7]

niginit, you completely misused "despotism"! (kidding)

But you did mean to say "of" (sic. endorsing) rather than "by" didn't you?

[niginit]

This is essentially a question on religion.

Can a believer (in context), who struggles to believe, become despotic, or even partake in genocide if their concept of god is challenged, or annexed? If god is their whole and center of everything true and right, then what happens when they start to seriously doubt it's validity? Could they act in despotic, violent, coercive, nihilistic ways?

Might they turn to government as their new god and still carry their original faith and conviction?