Mark May just admitted that the BCS doesn't care about the other bowl games. One simple word could solve this whole problem. Hmm, what could that word be? I'm blanking on its name. Its the system in every other college sport that is used to decide the postseason? Starts with a P?
mark may is a liar the BCS does not just figure out #1 and #2 if a conference like the for example the big 10 this year has a tie what formula do they use??? THE BCS!!! mark may is a piece of shit liar.
Any fan that thinks the regular season is a playoff is kidding themselves. Any fan who thinks a playoff will devalue the regular season is kidding themselves. If teams like 2-loss LSU can win championships, why would it scare anybody if a 10-3 team entering the "playoffs" wins it all?
@Kobeforever211 HES A PIECE OF SHIT LIAR THE BCS ALSO CONFIGURES TIES....JUST LIKE THEY DID WHEN TEXAS, TEXAS TECH AND OU WERE TIED....MARK MAY IS A PIECE OF SHIT YES MAN...THEY DONT PLAY IT OUT ON THE FIELD.
I'm so sick of hearing about how the SEC is better than the Big Ten. Even with 4 turnovers, Michigan beat #9 Florida in the 2008 Capital Bowl. Unranked Iowa destroyed SC last year. You'd never know it because all the SEC fans like Carville talk about is how Illinois got destroyed by USC - a Pac-10 team anyway- in the Rose Bowl. There's no conspiracy against the SEC in favor of the Big Ten. If there ever is a playoff, SEC teams are going to regret it.
@sheepburn Didn't Illinois get burned in the Rose Bowl by USC? I am a Michigan fan all day, but at the same time, I do agree with you, because Michigan beat Illinois in this year, and should have gone to the Rose Bowl, but they didn't. They got UF, and proved that when healthy.....they could have run with any team in the nation. Fact is...the SEC is on top of the mountain until they get knocked off, and that won't be happening this year...not if Boise or OSU is waiting, lol.
Carville needs to be the president of the BCS. It is such bullshit that Texas beat the sooners by 10 yet the sooners still go to the championship and oklahoma knew that
Dude, TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, TT AND ALL OF THE BIG 12 DECIDED THAT WAS THE RULE FOR THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP RANKING HEAD TO HEAD AFTER THE BCS RANKING! No point in bitching Texas would have gotten their asses spanked by Florida last year too!
@stimeyjones35 Texas lost to Texas Tech, so why should they have more of an argument in 2008? Tech lost late, and that's the only reason the Longhorns got there, but Tech beat them on the field, so that doesn't say much about this argument.
@jejesdad actually, that says everything about that argument. obviously, the BCS looks more at points system than wins/losses. Tech beat us by 3 that year very late in the game after failing to hold a monumental lead. Tech lost by 44 to an Oklahoma team that lost by 10. honestly, they should have never been in the conversation. not because they weren't good enough, but because they were the odd man out. and no, @FLBMX66, Texas would not have lost to Florida with the team we had that year.
@TexasMade20 OU was the highest scoring team of all-time, and yes.....Texas did win the game, but later on in the year OU would have destroyed that Texas team. Florida held the HIGHEST SCORING TEAM in history to 14 pts., so how would Texas beat Florida?
@jejesdad how many times has OU been the highest something team in history? do you know how many years those guys are deemed most dangerous team in the country? OU would not have won either way, whether the experts are on their side or not. They suck in big games, they haven't won one since their title in 2000 I think? Stoops cannot win a big game to save his life. no bias here, I would have taken a healthy McCoy over anyone that year. the Tech game lost him the Heisman, he would have won.
@TexasMade20 1ce, because when you're the highest scoring team of all-time, then you're at the top of the list. T. Tech deserved to be in a BCS game, but them losing late hurt their chances. OU just played a schedule that afforded them the chance to blow out the teams they played. No diss, but no one is afraid of the Big 12, or what's left of it without VY at QB. Texas got back to the game the next year and 'Bama ran them off the field, so how would they have beaten UF?
@jejesdad can't compare Bama to that Florida team. virtually the same Bama team with a weaker defense demolished Florida the next year. Had Texas played UF or Bama in 08' with a healthy Colt McCoy, the winningest college QB of all time, they could have beaten them. hell, with Colt in the Bama game they had the will power to hold them scoreless for what, 6 minutes while he was in? we only scored field goals but you could tell they played harder while he was in. he gets hurt, the defense is gone.
@TexasMade20 Alabama's BCS Title game defense was just as good, if not better dude. They had 4 guys get drafted in the 1st 3 rounds, and should have had 6 or 7. Anders, and Woodall didn't get shine, but were really good players as well.
Colt is a great QB, but playing in the Big 12 isn't much of an accomplishment as far as winning all these games because it's a QB league 'Bama would have destroyed the OU and Texas team from the previous year easily. Sorry, but it's just the truth!
somebody PLEEEAASSSE put the video of james carville bashing lee corso and talking about blowing up the rose bowl...i can't find it anywhere, but probably one of the best videos i've ever seen
The BCS is bullshit. Explain to me how Texas Beats OU by double digits then turns around and as OU jump them for a chance at the BCS title. I'm sorry but how many people did Oklahoma pay off to pull this one off.
i'm a sooner fan and that pissed me off as well! texas beat us by 10 pts on a nuetral field and we leap frog them??? the system is TRASH!!!! anyboby that says differnt must have there head up there ass
It ISSSSS borderline criminal to have an undefeated Auburn watch the National Championship on TV! The Gators BARELY made it into the game a couple years ago because they weren't "undefeated", but look what they did when they got there LOL. They DESTROYED that BCS powerhouse OSU, didn't they? I feel the SEC champion is perhaps the best team in the country and should get the chance to prove it. Way to go, Carville!!
I thought that this was so funny, its all true, osu shouldn't have been in the championship they are so overated I fuckin hate how they get credit for beatin michigan when michigan was injured and was pretty bad and how they didnt play for 4 weeks and other teams did and a few teams ahead of osu, lost and that makes OSU better? It's incredibly gay. Illinois should have played Hawaii instead of USC and if this was a good system, USC would have played Georgia in the championship game, not LSU&OSU.
I am a Michigan fan all day, and I think that Carville's argument was based more on the fact that OSU continues to embarrass us as a Conference, as opposed to the fact that the Big 10 is a bad conference.
OSU is bad enough without getting to a major bowl, because their schedule sux, year in and year out!
Alabama Fan here. And MICHIGAN DIDN'T embarrass the Big 10 at the beginning of the season? 'splain that one to me Lucy. As long as there are polls there will be bias. Let's ditch the BCS AND POLLS so that the SEC can play for the Championship each year like they're supposed to.
I give ASU props, and since you obviously tried to be funny and failed, you did once again jump to the 1st game of the season, and ASU is a good team.
As if UL-Monroe wasn't a slap in your face, and I live in Anniston man, that is Calhoun County next to Jefferson County, so I know about the SEC, and I give props to the best team in the Country in LSU, but I also seem to remember UM whipping up on those Gators!
Hey Anniston,LAUGHING. OUCH! Crackin' on me about UL-Monroe. Too painful. Touche'. Listen, If the Wolvies would BEAT OSU then "we" wouldn't have this little problem now would "we?"
Sorry dude, still think top to bottom, SEC rules. Go Prattville Lions.
(It's all good; any school that can pack out 108K in the House on Saturday is OK by me.)
Prattville has my props, and I didn't think they could beat Hoover last year, but they did.
I know the SEC is the best, and I never said they weren't, but at least UM dispelled the rumor, at least in the Capital One Bowl, that the SEC had the superior everything, because if not for the fumbles, UF would have gotten bit harder than they did against us!
SEC is the best, and will continue to be the best, until UM takes it back!
want some help pullin your head out of the SEC's butt?? UM has another 4 years of losses to OSU ahead of them. people think SEC is so good because 1 they are on a roll right now and 2 they talk their conference up. No other conference does that... im tired of trying to convince you fools. Just a note that conferences have won back 2 back NC's before. But dont tell the SEC that, they think they are the first.
Player u confused as fuk and dont even realize it! Go get ANY conference u want...& give me ur best 9 teams! Dats right ur best 9, and Ill go get our 9 bowl teams from 08! Lsu,Fl,Ga,Aub,Ala,Tn,Ark,Kty, & Miss St! U cant go get 9 in 1 conference because THERE IS NONE! Big 10(3 Osu,Mi,Wis). Big 12(4 Ok,Tx,Ks,Mizzo). Acc(4 Fsu,Clem,Mia,VT). Pac 10..Please..USC! NUFF SAID! The toughest conf. from top 2 bottom in the country! Deal wit it! 7-2 Bowl record! now..NUFF SAID!
James Carville is proof that there was a love child produced from the main love scene that took place in the movie...Deliverance". Or maybe the love scene that was in the movie, Pulp Fiction.
james carville is a idiot. but he makes sense about play offs. SC and Georgia should have been the real game for the rose bowl...james talk so highly about the SEC and down on the Pac 10, but every time a Pac 10 school has gone there within the past couple of years they have dominated. SC vs ARK, SC vs AUB, Cal vs TEN.... thats 5 games with in the past 6 years and it was total domination.......theres to much talk and not enough facts.......if you argue something throw some weight behind it.....
I want to see UI vs. USC- but I go to Illinois. I'm also happy the Rose Bowl is as it should be- Big Ten vs. Pac-10. Hawaii and Illinois? Def. is really the one thing we have....I want Hawaii to go to an air war with someone....
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arrowspace00 3 months ago
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FatReleaseSystem 1 year ago
I love James Carville, in a manly way of course.
Boelcke1916 1 year ago
CARVILLE IS THE MAN!!!
Boelcke1916 1 year ago
Everyone wants to see Nick Saban have to man up and play Boise State. Saban deserves contempt.
Boelcke1916 1 year ago
Roll Boise State roll!!!
Boelcke1916 1 year ago
Boise State 56, Alabama 0.
Boelcke1916 1 year ago
Right on!!!
Boelcke1916 1 year ago
Mark May just admitted that the BCS doesn't care about the other bowl games. One simple word could solve this whole problem. Hmm, what could that word be? I'm blanking on its name. Its the system in every other college sport that is used to decide the postseason? Starts with a P?
GUNtau9 1 year ago
mark may is a liar the BCS does not just figure out #1 and #2 if a conference like the for example the big 10 this year has a tie what formula do they use??? THE BCS!!! mark may is a piece of shit liar.
getyoasshome 1 year ago
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Checkout my upload on Carville's actions during the oil spill.
TheGuysmily 1 year ago
I never agree with James Carville he gets it right!!
AUgrad00 1 year ago
Any fan that thinks the regular season is a playoff is kidding themselves. Any fan who thinks a playoff will devalue the regular season is kidding themselves. If teams like 2-loss LSU can win championships, why would it scare anybody if a 10-3 team entering the "playoffs" wins it all?
AntiMTVMovement 1 year ago
james carville get it to bad nobody else sports media dose
misfits4life1 2 years ago
#1 versus #2? REALLY?!!
Kobeforever211 2 years ago
@Kobeforever211 HES A PIECE OF SHIT LIAR THE BCS ALSO CONFIGURES TIES....JUST LIKE THEY DID WHEN TEXAS, TEXAS TECH AND OU WERE TIED....MARK MAY IS A PIECE OF SHIT YES MAN...THEY DONT PLAY IT OUT ON THE FIELD.
getyoasshome 1 year ago
I'm so sick of hearing about how the SEC is better than the Big Ten. Even with 4 turnovers, Michigan beat #9 Florida in the 2008 Capital Bowl. Unranked Iowa destroyed SC last year. You'd never know it because all the SEC fans like Carville talk about is how Illinois got destroyed by USC - a Pac-10 team anyway- in the Rose Bowl. There's no conspiracy against the SEC in favor of the Big Ten. If there ever is a playoff, SEC teams are going to regret it.
sheepburn 2 years ago
GO SEC
tiger24rocks 2 years ago
@sheepburn Didn't Illinois get burned in the Rose Bowl by USC? I am a Michigan fan all day, but at the same time, I do agree with you, because Michigan beat Illinois in this year, and should have gone to the Rose Bowl, but they didn't. They got UF, and proved that when healthy.....they could have run with any team in the nation. Fact is...the SEC is on top of the mountain until they get knocked off, and that won't be happening this year...not if Boise or OSU is waiting, lol.
jejesdad 1 year ago
I used to not like ol james for no particular reason but he NAILED this one
gasperoutdoors 2 years ago
Carville needs to be the president of the BCS. It is such bullshit that Texas beat the sooners by 10 yet the sooners still go to the championship and oklahoma knew that
stimeyjones35 2 years ago 2
Dude, TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, TT AND ALL OF THE BIG 12 DECIDED THAT WAS THE RULE FOR THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP RANKING HEAD TO HEAD AFTER THE BCS RANKING! No point in bitching Texas would have gotten their asses spanked by Florida last year too!
FLBMX66 2 years ago
@stimeyjones35 Texas lost to Texas Tech, so why should they have more of an argument in 2008? Tech lost late, and that's the only reason the Longhorns got there, but Tech beat them on the field, so that doesn't say much about this argument.
jejesdad 1 year ago
@jejesdad actually, that says everything about that argument. obviously, the BCS looks more at points system than wins/losses. Tech beat us by 3 that year very late in the game after failing to hold a monumental lead. Tech lost by 44 to an Oklahoma team that lost by 10. honestly, they should have never been in the conversation. not because they weren't good enough, but because they were the odd man out. and no, @FLBMX66, Texas would not have lost to Florida with the team we had that year.
TexasMade20 10 months ago
@TexasMade20 OU was the highest scoring team of all-time, and yes.....Texas did win the game, but later on in the year OU would have destroyed that Texas team. Florida held the HIGHEST SCORING TEAM in history to 14 pts., so how would Texas beat Florida?
jejesdad 10 months ago
@jejesdad how many times has OU been the highest something team in history? do you know how many years those guys are deemed most dangerous team in the country? OU would not have won either way, whether the experts are on their side or not. They suck in big games, they haven't won one since their title in 2000 I think? Stoops cannot win a big game to save his life. no bias here, I would have taken a healthy McCoy over anyone that year. the Tech game lost him the Heisman, he would have won.
TexasMade20 10 months ago
@TexasMade20 1ce, because when you're the highest scoring team of all-time, then you're at the top of the list. T. Tech deserved to be in a BCS game, but them losing late hurt their chances. OU just played a schedule that afforded them the chance to blow out the teams they played. No diss, but no one is afraid of the Big 12, or what's left of it without VY at QB. Texas got back to the game the next year and 'Bama ran them off the field, so how would they have beaten UF?
jejesdad 10 months ago
@jejesdad can't compare Bama to that Florida team. virtually the same Bama team with a weaker defense demolished Florida the next year. Had Texas played UF or Bama in 08' with a healthy Colt McCoy, the winningest college QB of all time, they could have beaten them. hell, with Colt in the Bama game they had the will power to hold them scoreless for what, 6 minutes while he was in? we only scored field goals but you could tell they played harder while he was in. he gets hurt, the defense is gone.
TexasMade20 10 months ago
@TexasMade20 Alabama's BCS Title game defense was just as good, if not better dude. They had 4 guys get drafted in the 1st 3 rounds, and should have had 6 or 7. Anders, and Woodall didn't get shine, but were really good players as well.
Colt is a great QB, but playing in the Big 12 isn't much of an accomplishment as far as winning all these games because it's a QB league 'Bama would have destroyed the OU and Texas team from the previous year easily. Sorry, but it's just the truth!
jejesdad 10 months ago
Clinton had to answer to carville in a limited fashon ask them. I love Carville we need a few more like Carville.
cookiegate 2 years ago
texas wood have kick the shit outta the gators last year!
myaangeline 2 years ago
somebody PLEEEAASSSE put the video of james carville bashing lee corso and talking about blowing up the rose bowl...i can't find it anywhere, but probably one of the best videos i've ever seen
omanasee 2 years ago
Exactly! Put in a playoff system and let the boys duke it out.
live670420 2 years ago
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Anyone with any common sense knows that the BCS makes about as much sense as the current income tax code.
Both are utter NONSENSE and should be SCRAPPED.
Not "tinkered with" . . . SCRAPPED!
RonPaulGeorgeRingo 3 years ago
The BCS is bullshit. Explain to me how Texas Beats OU by double digits then turns around and as OU jump them for a chance at the BCS title. I'm sorry but how many people did Oklahoma pay off to pull this one off.
TopDog381 3 years ago 7
I AGREE WHITH YOU TOP DOG!!
MOBROOKS 3 years ago
i'm a sooner fan and that pissed me off as well! texas beat us by 10 pts on a nuetral field and we leap frog them??? the system is TRASH!!!! anyboby that says differnt must have there head up there ass
myaangeline 2 years ago
@TopDog381 at a neutral field as well
M1643 1 year ago
Carville is right on!!!!!
It ISSSSS borderline criminal to have an undefeated Auburn watch the National Championship on TV! The Gators BARELY made it into the game a couple years ago because they weren't "undefeated", but look what they did when they got there LOL. They DESTROYED that BCS powerhouse OSU, didn't they? I feel the SEC champion is perhaps the best team in the country and should get the chance to prove it. Way to go, Carville!!
agat0r 3 years ago 3
Carville is the fucking MAN !!!!!!!
SoSplendidMusic 3 years ago 8
realtalk!
rashawnpierre 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
that guy is a fucking idiot.
Smith4Heisman 3 years ago
i agree 100%
puckplaya11 3 years ago
lol at Troy Smith
bedlam36 3 years ago
I thought that this was so funny, its all true, osu shouldn't have been in the championship they are so overated I fuckin hate how they get credit for beatin michigan when michigan was injured and was pretty bad and how they didnt play for 4 weeks and other teams did and a few teams ahead of osu, lost and that makes OSU better? It's incredibly gay. Illinois should have played Hawaii instead of USC and if this was a good system, USC would have played Georgia in the championship game, not LSU&OSU.
goblue918 3 years ago
All true though
anchorman45 3 years ago 2
That is one ugly mofo.
abcpools 3 years ago
Football and SPorts Players are on the RIGHT JUICE NOW.............
Our HEALTHY JUICE! GOOD FOR THEM! SOON THEY WILL BE ENDORSING IT ON THE TUBE AND YOU HEARD IT HERE 1st!
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wwwJEZSEZcom 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
James Carville looks like the bottom side of my NUTSACK! SEC was great. But OSU will Pwn for the next 4 seasons.
Pryor is home! Buckeyes are going to crush USC!
bankstonian 4 years ago
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rednop44 3 years ago 2
how on earth did the south produce such a fucked up,pinko,communist sympathizer such as this.
rw5791 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
James Carville fucking sucks. He sucks on Hillary's dick days in and day out.
rae41581 4 years ago
you're a moron. i'm a barack supporter but i'd vote for hillary over John McSame as Bush anyday
tomlambsays 4 years ago 4
I may want to smack James Carville on politics, but we REALLY need him for an SEC chairman.
AgentJTP9 4 years ago
I am a Michigan fan all day, and I think that Carville's argument was based more on the fact that OSU continues to embarrass us as a Conference, as opposed to the fact that the Big 10 is a bad conference.
OSU is bad enough without getting to a major bowl, because their schedule sux, year in and year out!
sdbsingle1 4 years ago
Alabama Fan here. And MICHIGAN DIDN'T embarrass the Big 10 at the beginning of the season? 'splain that one to me Lucy. As long as there are polls there will be bias. Let's ditch the BCS AND POLLS so that the SEC can play for the Championship each year like they're supposed to.
PS: Go Boilers. HA!
tgwnola 4 years ago
I give ASU props, and since you obviously tried to be funny and failed, you did once again jump to the 1st game of the season, and ASU is a good team.
As if UL-Monroe wasn't a slap in your face, and I live in Anniston man, that is Calhoun County next to Jefferson County, so I know about the SEC, and I give props to the best team in the Country in LSU, but I also seem to remember UM whipping up on those Gators!
You were saying?!
sdbsingle1 4 years ago
Hey Anniston,LAUGHING. OUCH! Crackin' on me about UL-Monroe. Too painful. Touche'. Listen, If the Wolvies would BEAT OSU then "we" wouldn't have this little problem now would "we?"
Sorry dude, still think top to bottom, SEC rules. Go Prattville Lions.
(It's all good; any school that can pack out 108K in the House on Saturday is OK by me.)
tgwnola 4 years ago
Prattville has my props, and I didn't think they could beat Hoover last year, but they did.
I know the SEC is the best, and I never said they weren't, but at least UM dispelled the rumor, at least in the Capital One Bowl, that the SEC had the superior everything, because if not for the fumbles, UF would have gotten bit harder than they did against us!
SEC is the best, and will continue to be the best, until UM takes it back!
sdbsingle1 4 years ago
want some help pullin your head out of the SEC's butt?? UM has another 4 years of losses to OSU ahead of them. people think SEC is so good because 1 they are on a roll right now and 2 they talk their conference up. No other conference does that... im tired of trying to convince you fools. Just a note that conferences have won back 2 back NC's before. But dont tell the SEC that, they think they are the first.
Daytonkid11 3 years ago
@Daytonkid11
Player u confused as fuk and dont even realize it! Go get ANY conference u want...& give me ur best 9 teams! Dats right ur best 9, and Ill go get our 9 bowl teams from 08! Lsu,Fl,Ga,Aub,Ala,Tn,Ark,Kty, & Miss St! U cant go get 9 in 1 conference because THERE IS NONE! Big 10(3 Osu,Mi,Wis). Big 12(4 Ok,Tx,Ks,Mizzo). Acc(4 Fsu,Clem,Mia,VT). Pac 10..Please..USC! NUFF SAID! The toughest conf. from top 2 bottom in the country! Deal wit it! 7-2 Bowl record! now..NUFF SAID!
rashawnpierre 3 years ago
James Carville is proof that there was a love child produced from the main love scene that took place in the movie...Deliverance". Or maybe the love scene that was in the movie, Pulp Fiction.
lblbates 4 years ago
why does he look like hes always staring in the sun?
vadude68 4 years ago
james carville is a idiot. but he makes sense about play offs. SC and Georgia should have been the real game for the rose bowl...james talk so highly about the SEC and down on the Pac 10, but every time a Pac 10 school has gone there within the past couple of years they have dominated. SC vs ARK, SC vs AUB, Cal vs TEN.... thats 5 games with in the past 6 years and it was total domination.......theres to much talk and not enough facts.......if you argue something throw some weight behind it.....
tribe1 4 years ago
tenn 35 cal 18. auburn 40 wsu 14. lsu 45 arizona 3. pac 10 blow and you know it. the pac 10 is always usc and 9 cupcakes. its all about the sec.
gmussina 4 years ago
what cal beat tenn i talking about the last 5 years bitch
tribe1 4 years ago
A idiot is right. nothing else
shooter486 4 years ago
What a creep.
kacceysue 4 years ago
Hes a stuck up bitch...
Smith4Heisman 4 years ago
Satan wrapped in the skin of a Human.
jd426999 4 years ago
i think the same
cordanzo 4 years ago
straight ether!
ohsballer 4 years ago
Obama better watch out if this guy takes over Hilary's campaign!
Dibrini 4 years ago
he denied that he would be joining the campaign today, so it doesn't look like it.
sheepburn 4 years ago
Probably too drunk after the LSU win to make a formal announcement.
Dibrini 4 years ago
He was on Larry King tonight supporting her.
Arffyou 4 years ago
Makes sense, anything to get away from that GOP wife of his!
Dibrini 4 years ago
i would like to nominate him for the biggest sports douche of the year
Rikkerry25 4 years ago
SO TRUE. No one wants to see USC .vs. Illinois. NO ONE!!!
midsworld22 4 years ago
Carville is an asshat and an LSU/SEC homer.. at least Mark Mary knows what he's talking about.
sheamaster2 4 years ago
I want to see UI vs. USC- but I go to Illinois. I'm also happy the Rose Bowl is as it should be- Big Ten vs. Pac-10. Hawaii and Illinois? Def. is really the one thing we have....I want Hawaii to go to an air war with someone....
freedom4allnow 4 years ago
The ironic thing is that he's an LSU alum. The BCS got PART of it right this year. GEAUX TIGERS!
Jukeboxster 4 years ago
Did you hear that James Carwell guy rip the BSCS in half? WOW.. Shortsided mental midgets? You go James!!!
dannyt92548 4 years ago
USC vs Georgia and UH vs Illinois would have been better... I would have loved to seen UH destroy Illinois.
raysauce 4 years ago 3
SO TRUE. No one wants to see USC .vs. Illinois. NO ONE!!!
Kaizen63 4 years ago
That's what da hell I'm talkin' about. BCS my azz... LOL
95boyz 4 years ago