@duivesteyn - CA Traffic law does not operate as you suggest, and even before the circle was "upgraded" to include some roundabout features, the drivers in the entry legs never had priority over traffic within the circle. Any circular roadway is a traffic circle, with roundabouts being one special subclass of circles. Rotaries are the most general class of loop roadways, with circles being a special subclass of rotaries!
Hamilton has 2 had traffic circles for years. I have no choice sometimes but to use them and as a result have had several close calls. Hamilton is endorsing this type of intersection everywhere. Including residential neighborhoods three way intersections. Traffic speed has been proven related to incidents with ped + cycles traffic circles increase traffic speed.
@evafan365 - Where is Hamilton? Circles and roundabouts generally reduce traffic speeds but increase throughput precisely because traffic must slow to yield on entry, and follow a circular course instead of a straight course. The US crash stats I've analyzed show a strong correlation between crossing movement (right hook, left cross, and pullout) crashes, which are not heavily speed dependent, and depend more on the cyclist lateral position within the rodaway.
@evafan365 - Whether you like circles/roundabouts or not, the purpose of the video is to show that when a cyclist operates as a driver (and anyone of normal ability can do so), even at very low speed, then motorists already know how to treat the cyclists as drivers (wait behind or pass).
Take time to read what I am saying. I do everything I can to endorse cycling. That means I would like to see most people get out on their bike regularly. I have been riding as my main transportation for 40 years now. I am involved with the cycling community in Hamilton Ontario. You should realize that the average cyclist would not boldly ride out in traffic as you demonstrate in the video. I want to endorse facility's that promote cycling not another reason to leave the bike in the garage.
@evafan365 - I read your words very carefully, and an argument ad populum, speculative at that, is not at all persuasive. I train cyclists to act as drivers, so unlike you, I do not have the same low expectation of people's ability to simply ride further leftward in the roadway. I also reject the "boldness" framing. In fact, I ride to be seen because riding at the edge is harrowing, whereas riding in the lane is quite comforting, because I know that I will not be hooked by exiting traffic.
We should be making alternative transportation more practical. However this type of intersection provides the opposite. It speeds traffic up and increases risk for cyclists and pedestrians. In Hamilton Ontario the city is incorporating circles in residential neighborhoods Were there are lots children who don't drive cars yet. I think the use of this type of traffic mover (not Control) should be only used on roads that prohibit pedestrians or cyclists.
@evafan365 - There's noting impractical about operating as a driver. As far as I can tell, you have a prejudice agasint cyclists operating as drivers. You have presented no evidence, other than your opinion that driving a bicycle "increases risk" (compated to what, one might ask?), as justification for banning bicycle access to primary transportation facilities like the circle and the roads leading to it.
Another solid proof that driving your bike faster is safer. If you are in sync with the whole 'flow', everybody is happy and no one makes stupid move.
If I were in this situation I'll be hammering at 53F/ 14 or 12R at 90rpm to be in sync.
Actually the main point of making this video, and the reason we shot it, is exactly the opposite; a cyclist is perfectly safe at very low speeds, so long as they act as drivers by following driver rules, since traffic simply flowed around us. Higher speeds make merging a little easier, but I don't think it is all that much safer if safer at all.
Why would you ever ride a bike on the Traffic Circle? There are plenty of other, safer ways around. It's obvious from watching this video that you are disrupting the traffic around you and causing a dangerous situation for everyone.
The traffic circle is part of Pacific Coast Highway, a well used and very useful bicycle route that I, Dan use regularly. Traversing the circle is quite safe, and no, traffic was not disrupted, it flowed around us in a very safe and orderly way, which is the point of the video. In fact, we made this video to show that major roads are safe bicycling routes, and that merge zones like circles can be negotiated safely when cyclists act as drivers and follow driver rules.
yeah i wouldn't ride my bike there unless i had no choice. i would rather waste 10 or 20 mins using another route than putting my neck on the line. cars get into accidents there all the time, imagine riding a bicycle in the middle of an accident.
Being a Long Beach native and avid cyclist, I frequently use this traffic circle (located along the Pacific Cost Bike Route). I have never thought that I was 'putting my neck on the line", and I think Dan's video clearly shows that by following laws as a driver, any road is safe. Notice that neither Dan nor Brian were involved in a crash during this video.
I don't think I've ever seen a bicycle on LB's traffic circle. GLAD you weren't filming the day of my accident!
The ONLY time you will see me drive the circle at this point is if I'm entring from PCH traveling SOUTHbound because then I have my own (nonStop) lane!
I grew up with a traffic circle in Freehold, New Jersey (real home of Bruuuce Springsteen). It was located by Freehold Raceway and they eventually changed it into a regular intersection and got rid of the circle.
well i'm confused, is this a roundabout or a traffic circle?
duivesteyn 1 year ago
Comment removed
duivesteyn 1 year ago
@duivesteyn - CA Traffic law does not operate as you suggest, and even before the circle was "upgraded" to include some roundabout features, the drivers in the entry legs never had priority over traffic within the circle. Any circular roadway is a traffic circle, with roundabouts being one special subclass of circles. Rotaries are the most general class of loop roadways, with circles being a special subclass of rotaries!
CyclistLorax 1 year ago
Hamilton has 2 had traffic circles for years. I have no choice sometimes but to use them and as a result have had several close calls. Hamilton is endorsing this type of intersection everywhere. Including residential neighborhoods three way intersections. Traffic speed has been proven related to incidents with ped + cycles traffic circles increase traffic speed.
evafan365 1 year ago
@evafan365 - Where is Hamilton? Circles and roundabouts generally reduce traffic speeds but increase throughput precisely because traffic must slow to yield on entry, and follow a circular course instead of a straight course. The US crash stats I've analyzed show a strong correlation between crossing movement (right hook, left cross, and pullout) crashes, which are not heavily speed dependent, and depend more on the cyclist lateral position within the rodaway.
CyclistLorax 1 year ago
@evafan365 - Whether you like circles/roundabouts or not, the purpose of the video is to show that when a cyclist operates as a driver (and anyone of normal ability can do so), even at very low speed, then motorists already know how to treat the cyclists as drivers (wait behind or pass).
CyclistLorax 1 year ago
Take time to read what I am saying. I do everything I can to endorse cycling. That means I would like to see most people get out on their bike regularly. I have been riding as my main transportation for 40 years now. I am involved with the cycling community in Hamilton Ontario. You should realize that the average cyclist would not boldly ride out in traffic as you demonstrate in the video. I want to endorse facility's that promote cycling not another reason to leave the bike in the garage.
evafan365 1 year ago
@evafan365 - I read your words very carefully, and an argument ad populum, speculative at that, is not at all persuasive. I train cyclists to act as drivers, so unlike you, I do not have the same low expectation of people's ability to simply ride further leftward in the roadway. I also reject the "boldness" framing. In fact, I ride to be seen because riding at the edge is harrowing, whereas riding in the lane is quite comforting, because I know that I will not be hooked by exiting traffic.
CyclistLorax 1 year ago
Comment removed
evafan365 1 year ago
PART 2
We should be making alternative transportation more practical. However this type of intersection provides the opposite. It speeds traffic up and increases risk for cyclists and pedestrians. In Hamilton Ontario the city is incorporating circles in residential neighborhoods Were there are lots children who don't drive cars yet. I think the use of this type of traffic mover (not Control) should be only used on roads that prohibit pedestrians or cyclists.
evafan365 1 year ago
@evafan365 - There's noting impractical about operating as a driver. As far as I can tell, you have a prejudice agasint cyclists operating as drivers. You have presented no evidence, other than your opinion that driving a bicycle "increases risk" (compated to what, one might ask?), as justification for banning bicycle access to primary transportation facilities like the circle and the roads leading to it.
CyclistLorax 1 year ago
Another solid proof that driving your bike faster is safer. If you are in sync with the whole 'flow', everybody is happy and no one makes stupid move.
If I were in this situation I'll be hammering at 53F/ 14 or 12R at 90rpm to be in sync.
JimexJimex 3 years ago
Actually the main point of making this video, and the reason we shot it, is exactly the opposite; a cyclist is perfectly safe at very low speeds, so long as they act as drivers by following driver rules, since traffic simply flowed around us. Higher speeds make merging a little easier, but I don't think it is all that much safer if safer at all.
CyclistLorax 3 years ago
Why would you ever ride a bike on the Traffic Circle? There are plenty of other, safer ways around. It's obvious from watching this video that you are disrupting the traffic around you and causing a dangerous situation for everyone.
nchaffee 3 years ago
The traffic circle is part of Pacific Coast Highway, a well used and very useful bicycle route that I, Dan use regularly. Traversing the circle is quite safe, and no, traffic was not disrupted, it flowed around us in a very safe and orderly way, which is the point of the video. In fact, we made this video to show that major roads are safe bicycling routes, and that merge zones like circles can be negotiated safely when cyclists act as drivers and follow driver rules.
CyclistLorax 3 years ago
I live right by the Long Beach traffic circle and I avoid it like the plague when I'm on my bike. Accidents are very abundant there.
LeafwortThumbfloggin 3 years ago
yeah i wouldn't ride my bike there unless i had no choice. i would rather waste 10 or 20 mins using another route than putting my neck on the line. cars get into accidents there all the time, imagine riding a bicycle in the middle of an accident.
newwavenewrave 3 years ago
Being a Long Beach native and avid cyclist, I frequently use this traffic circle (located along the Pacific Cost Bike Route). I have never thought that I was 'putting my neck on the line", and I think Dan's video clearly shows that by following laws as a driver, any road is safe. Notice that neither Dan nor Brian were involved in a crash during this video.
Thanks for the video Dan
dominicmdougherty 3 years ago
Awesome video :D I like the Long Beach traffic circle!
1993BRYANT 3 years ago
Good job. I love your videos. Well done :)
Mike D
jumpflyz 3 years ago
I don't think I've ever seen a bicycle on LB's traffic circle. GLAD you weren't filming the day of my accident!
The ONLY time you will see me drive the circle at this point is if I'm entring from PCH traveling SOUTHbound because then I have my own (nonStop) lane!
I grew up with a traffic circle in Freehold, New Jersey (real home of Bruuuce Springsteen). It was located by Freehold Raceway and they eventually changed it into a regular intersection and got rid of the circle.
Be safe!
ThePrimeSpotcom 3 years ago