@vickiviolini To say that one composer is "greater" than another indicates only your own opinion, as no self respecting historian makes such a distinction. It would seem to be the case that Bach would be astonished and fascinated by romantic techniques and their implications, as he was a pioneer in some aspects, but also a traditionalist in others - just like Brahms. It is true, that Bach used 60 or so variations on a four bar phrase, but can you identify the differences between Brahms and Bach?
@vickiviolini Brahms had a beard. Bach did not. Just kidding. From my point of view Brahms used form as a gardener might, as a superstructure upon which expression was built. Bach in many ways was the opposite, expression in the service of form and counterpoint. But that is most likely oversimplification.
How refreshing to encounter (especially on this democratic platform in which so many do not understand the difference between personal opinion and objective argument) someone who understands that creating music of such intensity requires superlative intellect.
There are those little things such as technique, imagination, and all that flows from them. And how, in the case of Brahms, historical awareness produces music that is so modern!
The flute solo then joined by the winds, trombones, then flute again needs to be slower - Brahms is portraying isolation and desperation here and the descending figures need to convey that right up to the tutti in the orchestra as one last attempt at life prior to resignation. I think Bernstein got it right in his recordings with VPO (in the early 80's.?)
I had to stop everything today. Great conductor, great orchestra, Brahms' symphonies are a spiritual experience. ....I found the chaconne of the 4th movement to be a very definitive listening experience by Kleiber.
The first movement final note should be held out. Just because a conductor adds time to a note doesn't always mean they're interpreting a fermata. In the case of the last movement, due to the fact that it is a theme and variation, and simply how the end is written, I would agree that the last note needs to be nothing more than full value. Brahms wrote the dramatic e minor ending in the first movement, and it's world shattering.
The popularity of the Janissary sound spilled over the orchestra and entered the mainstream of what we call now the Western classical music. There is a wonderful passage in the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth symphony, first published in 1824, that conjures up images of marching Janissaries.
"Turkish music" can also be heard in this symphony.
I now own the DVD of this concert--which also has the Coriolan Overture and Mozart #33. A great program and I encourage anyone who loves Kleiber to get it and hear it in full sound.
Clearly not a well man, his interpretations as he got older seem more and more literal, although the magical musicianship and his way of inhabiting the score is, to me, unsurpassed among conductors.
He literally cannot make it to the end, his energy spent as he conducts the final Piu Allegro.
Thanks so much for posting this performance. Only familiar with Kleiber's recording of the Fourth on DG with the VPO (reissued at mid-price in better sound than any previous incarnation), this reading with the Bavarian Staatskapelle adds another dimension to this remarkable, very private and enigmatic conductor. As with so many others, we shall never see - or hear - his likes again.
No one has conducted Brahms as brilliantly as Carlos Kleiber, at least not to my knowledge. His 4th with the Wiener Philharmoniker remains my favourite classical record.
Dvorak's "New World" and Mendelssohn's "Scottish" are two of my favourites which, regrettably, were not conducted (or recorded) by this genius. Of course, I am glad von Karajan did, but still, Kleiber's mastery of dynamics and gestures, and of course, the consequently magnificent results, are incomparable.
I have Kleibers Brahms 4th with the VPO and of course the same teams Beethoven 5th and 7th. Very sad he left so few recordings because they were incomparable usually far and away better than any performance before or since. Unfortunately the musical pygmies we have today in charge of the great ensembles of the our age dont have the fraction of the musicality of this true genius. We can only hope for the odd bootlegged concert turning up like his marvellous BRSO Pastorale symphony.
It's a shame Kleiber only left a handful of recordings. But imagine if he had recorded Beethoven's ninth, or Wagner's Ring, or the rest of the Brahms symphonies... We'd have to "close the chapter" on interpretations for all of these works, because they would all have the definitive performance. This guy has something indescribable that it seems nobody can match.
My, this sounds nothing like what Kleiber is dictating... Is Kleiber working too hard? Or does the orchestra suck just that much? Seems to be a trend. The "actors" seem to be overdoing their role to no benefit of the sound protruding from their instruments. They should take more after the Oboist. His nonchalant appeal is more fascinating than the circling dizziness of his out-of-tune colleague to the right. Bwah... Kleiber's too good for this orchestra.
I LOVE THE OPENING OF THIS MOVEMENT. THE RISING E MINOR PASSAGE WITH THE a sharp leading to the dominant. Maybe Brahms wasn't so conservative... pretty cool Mr. Brahms. such a simple 8 bar variation, expanded so beautifully.
I dont really like the flutist that much, but i love this peice! he is good, its just that he has a wierd way of moving when he plays, almost un natural
@trumpetgurly1 Oh My, I really love what's comming out of the flute. That is what matters to me. Great, world class players can move as they please if they make sounds like this. With music it is my ears that are connected to my soul, not my eyes. One can always close the eyes.
@cedricyu803 but VPO's sound is unrivaled. Also you are comparing a video to a recording. Kleiber's movement may trick you into thinking that this entire performance is more effusive.
The finale of the 1st symphony makes the whole thing pay off for me though, real drama and forward motion, almost like an overture of it's own. I seem to be in the minority, but I may be biased, it was the first Brahms symphony I heard when I was young, so it may be a mental association thing for me...:-)
It's a matter of taste, and since art is subjective, there's no ultimate judgment as to which is best. I believe his requiem to be his greatest achievement. As to his symphonies, the second and 4th are masterpieces in the orchestral repertoire. His 4th seems to be played backwards: the first movt., heavy and powerful, is a better piece to conclude the symphony.
I'm curious as to people's thoughts on his 4th being considered his "Magnum Opus". I have always preferred his other symphonies to this one. What do you think?
I'd say it's the best, maybe the 2nd in second, then the 1st, then the 3rd. Best slow movement arguably, last movement is pretty impressive, first movement is very weighty, 3rd movement isn't a letdown either.
@KV286 You know, I like many symphonies, but Brahms is the only composer about whom I can say that every one of his symphonies are truly great. I don't think Brahms' 4th is better than his 1st. The 2nd and 3rd are not on a par with 1st & 4th, but they are still awesome. That's my 2 centavos.
One of the most terrifying movements in the literature; a relentless driving force towards the final, inescapable tragedy. Kleiber is the servant of Brahms who brings it to life.
What a privilege to see him conduct; thank you for posting; I must have heard his name every day while liin Vienna; the older Philharmonickers spoke of him with such revberence!
"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. It was I who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive...Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"
I believe, Sir, that you are associating Brahms' 4th, as a tragedy, to the impending doom of the Rebels attack on the second Death Star? But the chosen one, Anakin, fulfills the prophecy and brings balance to the Force by destroying the Sith, Palpatine, and with him Imperial rule. That's not tragic, that's happy. Brahms' 4th is tragic. I believe Brahms 4th would appropriately accompany the fall of the Jedi and the Republic.
Wonderful. Kleiber is tremendous. The dynamics are wonderful and so unforced. This is the most exhausting piece in the Brahms repertoire after the 2nd Piano Concerto (for the conductor never mind the soloist) and Kleiber is clearly drained.
I think Kleibers conducting is very expressive and this was an amazing performance in which he really brought out the emotions of this great symphony. But I really don't like how he conducted the last chord. It wasn't powerful at all and he sort of let go of that intensity with an exhausted release. I don't mean this to be a negative comment, just an observation. This is one of the greatest interpretations of Brahms 4th that I've seen.
Deeply moving as this indeed is, and an education to watch him conduct, I don't think it holds a candle to his 1981 VPO recording, which I consider the greatest Brahms 4 ever. I can't find it on Youtube. If someone would explain to me how to upload it, I will....
A most remarkable symphony (and, finally, a terribly tragic symphony) by a most remarkable conductor at the absolute height of his powers. Podium movement has nothing to do with the vitality of a performance. Swallisch at the end of his tenure in Philadelphia was practically immobilized but his music making was electrifying.
i have read the comments below, and must say it has been a long time since i have had the pleasure as monitoring a argument on youtube as well presented as this one. all the participants have illustrated their opinions, and i believe them to be just that; opinions and nothing more.
however, i share the eye of berto41. i see only precision and grace in CK's execution, and believe his physical fatigue to be completely irrelevant, as it in NO WAY hindered his performance.
Well, obviously we disagree. I don't believe he was physically on top of his game, and I think that resulted in him having insufficient energy to ensure the thorough realisation of his concept of the symphony. I for no second doubt that he was on top of his game in terms of interpretive sophistication, but as I've made clear, I don't think he was able to bring out the desired execution from the players. A significant aspect of his reputation rests on the energetic effect of his performances.
I too SpottyDorsord commented on this a few months ago. It is around the 6:45 minute mark in this movement that you can see the fatigue and sloppiness settle in. He has lost that incredible focus maintained for 3 1/2 movements.
But one must accept the glory, the total immersion of his being into this score. It is unsurpassed for me.
But you are right--and just imagine how he felt, with his super-sensitive nature, knowing that, at the end, he had run out of gas.
ipmoic, well said and with HALF the offensiveness of my own words. This particular evening would have done nothing to keep aflame his fading Dionysian desires and ideals.
As davedart34 points out, it may have the remnants of Kleiberian sculpting, but it is nonetheless a sagging fart of a performance, especially at the end. Any fool who thinks otherwise may only look at Carlos' face at the end and witness his dejected expression.
The poor guy was old and sick; he couldn't muster the troops. In many ways I think this is a sad video. Kleiber fans who adore it are simply dopey poseurs oblivious to his genuine genius.
Absolutely correct my dear Berto41. I wasup to my kneck in it at the time but well deserve your beutifully worded bollocking. Please accept my appologies, secerely meant.
I do not require a bunch of fucking wankers telling me that this is good or not. I am sufficiently informed to make my own judgement. Bravo Brahms! and fuck you lot.
Carlos Cleiber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe there's a video of him conducting Brahms 4! His recording with VPO is my absolute favorite!He makes so few recordings, and he is in such a position where he can get away with albums that are 35 or 40 minutes long (which means I have to spend extra money LOL but it's worthwhile)
Don't make Herr Kleiber angry. He'll shoot lightning out of his hands like he did to Luke, or he'll reach up and pull the mezzanine seats right down on onto you.
At first, I thought John Williams was largely influenced by Tchaikowski and Brahms, but now I clearly see Palpatine was inspired by Herr Kleiber himself.
Or perhaps Ian McDiarmid and Herr Kleiber were merely separated at birth?
Is this one of his last performances? I'm just getting to know his recordings now. The man seems to literally run out of gas at about 9:11--just 24 seconds before the end. He appears not well....
Remarkable music making--so intimate, detailed and fulfilling.
This is the famous concert he gave in Münich in 1996. He was paid riantly for this concert, one of his best performances ever and if I am correct, it was his last public one. Audi was one of the sponsors and gave him a brandnew A8. This was Keiber: excentric but so pure and perfect! It's such a shame that there are only few films of his performances and rehearsals available. Probably one of the best conductors ever.
I dare to go further: In my opinion Kleiber was the greatest conductor in history.
But you're wrong concerning his concerts. After this one he gave some others too. The last were 1999 in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Valencia and Cagliari.
As far as I know you can hear a recording from one of these concerts where Kleiber conducts the Ouverture of Strauss' Fledermaus.
I think Audi concert you mentioned was not in Munich, but in the nice little town Ingolstadt. Was it really the last public concert on earth? From the background I would say that this concert video was indeed the Munich Herkules Saal.
Great maestro,Sublime masterpiece.And there are many superb recordings.How anyone can claim one the best is beyond me,even given the subjectivity.There are recordings(live and rec) of better performances(incl Kleiber) and with better orchestras(Bav St, is a fine ensemble).A satisfyng performance is made better with a great orchestra playing at their peak.Yet Brahms 4 can enthral with even ordinary orchestras.
@SingHouse absolutely agreed. Just played this a couple days ago with the Buffalo State Philharmonia. Compared to this recording in no way whatsoever, but was one of the most beautiful things I've heard in my life, almost started weeping on stage. One thing to hear it, another thing completely to play it, to feel each beat and each note. Gotta love it; an experience like no other.
Kleiber made a recording of this symphony with the Vienna Philharmonic that is not only the best recording of the symphony, but probably one of the best recordings of any piece ever.
I have that recording!!!!! absolutely correct! the last movement especially. the only interpretation that makes perfect sense, mainly with regard to the last minute of the piece. the energy is inexorable. I love the change of speed(faster) and then it stays at this perfect right up to the tragic end!
As much as that studio recording is touted, I have an even BETTER one of Kleiber and the VPO that is from a live performance. The sound quality is not as good, but the performance is amazing.
Still, nobody beats Furtwangler on this one for me. Not even Kleiber. :)
Un compositor usa pentagrama y nota para volcar sus conocimientos tecnicos y su emocion en una composicion. Un director lo que hace es recrear- segun su propia interpretacion. Hay muchas reinterpretaciones y es cuestion de gusto decidir si A o B lo hace mejor. Este es asunto a veces de modas-nada tecnico por cierto- o de oportunidades Y cualquiera que sepa de musica sabe que cada quien hace lo maximo por salir bien,como en este caso,pues a Kleiber le sobran meritos y conocimientos .
I realize Karajan's contributions to the repopularization of classical music is greatly appreciated, but his interpretations of Beethoven's symphonies are very overrated.
There are sectional balance issues in the transitional section from 1:24 - 1:44, where the higher woodwinds also go slightly off pitch. There are also intonation and synchronicity problems from 2:16 - 2:23 in the first violins.
Carlos Kleiber...GENIAL! The solo Flute: adorable!
beatrusa 4 days ago
GREAT!!!!
chuggos 1 month ago
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simonsachot 1 month ago
What about karajan's versions of Brahms symphonies ???
mHickland007 3 months ago
@mHickland007 On s'en christ de Karajan!!!! À soir c'est kleiber!
SupportNuclearWar 2 months ago in playlist Liked videos
i watchet this why do they have to show the aplause for ONE WHOLE MINUTE???????
606JC 4 months ago
DE LA ****** PURE :) MAIS JE NE NIE PAS LE GENIE DU COMPOSITEUR !
anaiscalice 4 months ago
Kleiber, tu es beau...
Orchidoclastie 5 months ago
Orgie lumineuse, fontaine d'émotions!
Orchidoclastie 5 months ago
Vas-y, souffle! Je vais péter les plombs, c'est merveilleux!
Orchidoclastie 5 months ago
c'est samphony de fin de brahms...
hitler7261 6 months ago
What a mind! 30 variations on an 8 measure phrase. Unbelievable!
kfcohea 8 months ago 8
@kfcohea haha Bach did more than 60 on a four measure phrase in his Ciaccona. Just sayin'
vickiviolini 3 months ago
@vickiviolini pasacaglia, pues empieza el tema solo.
TheBasilio 1 month ago
@vickiviolini To say that one composer is "greater" than another indicates only your own opinion, as no self respecting historian makes such a distinction. It would seem to be the case that Bach would be astonished and fascinated by romantic techniques and their implications, as he was a pioneer in some aspects, but also a traditionalist in others - just like Brahms. It is true, that Bach used 60 or so variations on a four bar phrase, but can you identify the differences between Brahms and Bach?
the81stviewer 1 month ago
@vickiviolini Brahms had a beard. Bach did not. Just kidding. From my point of view Brahms used form as a gardener might, as a superstructure upon which expression was built. Bach in many ways was the opposite, expression in the service of form and counterpoint. But that is most likely oversimplification.
psalmtone2008 4 weeks ago
@kfcohea Unbelievable indeed!
How refreshing to encounter (especially on this democratic platform in which so many do not understand the difference between personal opinion and objective argument) someone who understands that creating music of such intensity requires superlative intellect.
There are those little things such as technique, imagination, and all that flows from them. And how, in the case of Brahms, historical awareness produces music that is so modern!
As you say -- What a mind!
cyclingmartin 1 month ago
@kfcohea and in a sonata form to boot, complete with development!
psalmtone2008 4 weeks ago
The flute solo then joined by the winds, trombones, then flute again needs to be slower - Brahms is portraying isolation and desperation here and the descending figures need to convey that right up to the tutti in the orchestra as one last attempt at life prior to resignation. I think Bernstein got it right in his recordings with VPO (in the early 80's.?)
StanGay 9 months ago
I had to stop everything today. Great conductor, great orchestra, Brahms' symphonies are a spiritual experience. ....I found the chaconne of the 4th movement to be a very definitive listening experience by Kleiber.
francismdamico 9 months ago 2
Carlos Kleiber (3 July 1930 – 13 July 2004)
hpotter4getbac 9 months ago
Beautiful flute solo, but I thought the maestro took it a tad too fast.
twitchymurdoch 9 months ago
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to me, together with the Furtwangler performance, Kleiber's
is the best ever.....
Roberto6474 9 months ago
to me, together with the Furtwangler performance, Keleiber's is the best ever.....
Roberto6474 9 months ago 2
The first movement final note should be held out. Just because a conductor adds time to a note doesn't always mean they're interpreting a fermata. In the case of the last movement, due to the fact that it is a theme and variation, and simply how the end is written, I would agree that the last note needs to be nothing more than full value. Brahms wrote the dramatic e minor ending in the first movement, and it's world shattering.
Johlies 10 months ago
Comment removed
lootieful 11 months ago
Stunning! TY abbjorko for posting
paulostroff99 11 months ago
The popularity of the Janissary sound spilled over the orchestra and entered the mainstream of what we call now the Western classical music. There is a wonderful passage in the final movement of Beethoven's Ninth symphony, first published in 1824, that conjures up images of marching Janissaries.
"Turkish music" can also be heard in this symphony.
rohff18 11 months ago
beautiful
vibapia 11 months ago
Sweet Jesus, I almost shed a tear.
EngrossingEnigma 11 months ago
What a shame he died so young!
mc0558 1 year ago 3
That's some beautiful flute playing at 3:25. Bravo
Floppygirl 1 year ago
Last bar without any lousy fermata!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Conductors of the world: learn!! No fermatas where there arent any!!!
Dont forget!!
Kapputschino12 1 year ago 3
@Kapputschino12 Right on! I want to put my fist through the wall when I hear a conductor extend the last note of Brahms' 4th.
oldboyinoc 10 months ago
I now own the DVD of this concert--which also has the Coriolan Overture and Mozart #33. A great program and I encourage anyone who loves Kleiber to get it and hear it in full sound.
Clearly not a well man, his interpretations as he got older seem more and more literal, although the magical musicianship and his way of inhabiting the score is, to me, unsurpassed among conductors.
He literally cannot make it to the end, his energy spent as he conducts the final Piu Allegro.
maxreger100 1 year ago
Thanks so much for posting this performance. Only familiar with Kleiber's recording of the Fourth on DG with the VPO (reissued at mid-price in better sound than any previous incarnation), this reading with the Bavarian Staatskapelle adds another dimension to this remarkable, very private and enigmatic conductor. As with so many others, we shall never see - or hear - his likes again.
AJNorth 1 year ago
Doctor! I can't get the hairs on the back of my neck to go back down...
MrClassicalClassics 1 year ago 2
04:40 brass ensemble OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
SingHouse 1 year ago
I really enjoy the flutist's performance but he makes me a little seasick to watch.
kristendye 1 year ago 3
6:08
danielleosimpson 1 year ago
i love the flute at 2:50
beezus102 1 year ago
No one has conducted Brahms as brilliantly as Carlos Kleiber, at least not to my knowledge. His 4th with the Wiener Philharmoniker remains my favourite classical record.
grebrim 1 year ago
Maravilhoso e único....!!
Salve Carlos Kleiber!
ajbittencourt 1 year ago
Dvorak's "New World" and Mendelssohn's "Scottish" are two of my favourites which, regrettably, were not conducted (or recorded) by this genius. Of course, I am glad von Karajan did, but still, Kleiber's mastery of dynamics and gestures, and of course, the consequently magnificent results, are incomparable.
contrerados 1 year ago
The master of this symphony - though Furtwangler in his way is very impressive as well. But overall, nobody does it better.
classicalalways 1 year ago
Comment removed
thelobstercatcher 1 year ago
best version ever
thelobstercatcher 1 year ago
This is a pure heaven. Overwhelming!!!
TrabalRipoll 1 year ago 2
Thank you for posting the entire symphony!
Albertan1956 1 year ago
awesome! TY.
paulostroff99 1 year ago
I have Kleibers Brahms 4th with the VPO and of course the same teams Beethoven 5th and 7th. Very sad he left so few recordings because they were incomparable usually far and away better than any performance before or since. Unfortunately the musical pygmies we have today in charge of the great ensembles of the our age dont have the fraction of the musicality of this true genius. We can only hope for the odd bootlegged concert turning up like his marvellous BRSO Pastorale symphony.
philopus94 1 year ago 2
It's a shame Kleiber only left a handful of recordings. But imagine if he had recorded Beethoven's ninth, or Wagner's Ring, or the rest of the Brahms symphonies... We'd have to "close the chapter" on interpretations for all of these works, because they would all have the definitive performance. This guy has something indescribable that it seems nobody can match.
LeavesinTibet 1 year ago 2
@LeavesinTibet You're right!!!!!!!!
chicchimio 1 year ago
It's a Chaconne!
Chaconne- A form consisting of variations based on a reiterated harmonic pattern.
Brahms was going back to some really old basics, but did it masterfully (of course). :-)
Flutist11 1 year ago
this orchestra sounds so out of tune in places and they don't seem to be doing what he's intending (kleiber)
bcom11 1 year ago
Mullet sighting on principal bassoon. Sweet!
bigmandrel 1 year ago 10
@bigmandrel best sighting is right around :55
pezmanpockyfan 10 months ago
@bigmandrel hola la musica me gusta
nedsolischavez 8 months ago
eine Wahnsinn diese Interpretation...nie erreicht!
gerybaum 1 year ago
who is the conducter?.anyone honured please tell me
feyVK 1 year ago
@feyVK the conductor is Carlos Kleiber
dinomartino 1 year ago
The best performance of the greatest symphony ever written, no words to describe that. Thank you for uploading.
oluaprotciv 1 year ago
@oluaprotciv
Sounds very beatiful, yes. But try Furtwangelr's.
Aventao 1 year ago
My, this sounds nothing like what Kleiber is dictating... Is Kleiber working too hard? Or does the orchestra suck just that much? Seems to be a trend. The "actors" seem to be overdoing their role to no benefit of the sound protruding from their instruments. They should take more after the Oboist. His nonchalant appeal is more fascinating than the circling dizziness of his out-of-tune colleague to the right. Bwah... Kleiber's too good for this orchestra.
clairannette 1 year ago
Yawn....
ilkinond 1 year ago
Great! Hard to decide between this, Mravinsky or Furtwangler.
valadyr2 1 year ago
is this in " A mineur " or "E mineur"
2creepie 1 year ago
@2creepie in E Minor
Lity10 1 year ago
This is heavenly stuff - Carlos Kleiber etches this Brahms symphony in marble.
DeVe1970 1 year ago 2
Stupendous!
napsuta 1 year ago
I LOVE THE OPENING OF THIS MOVEMENT. THE RISING E MINOR PASSAGE WITH THE a sharp leading to the dominant. Maybe Brahms wasn't so conservative... pretty cool Mr. Brahms. such a simple 8 bar variation, expanded so beautifully.
Msjustalittlecomment 1 year ago 2
I dont really like the flutist that much, but i love this peice! he is good, its just that he has a wierd way of moving when he plays, almost un natural
trumpetgurly1 1 year ago
I love the strings at 1:00. So dark and thick.
MrAlexKeaton 1 year ago 2
@trumpetgurly1 Oh My, I really love what's comming out of the flute. That is what matters to me. Great, world class players can move as they please if they make sounds like this. With music it is my ears that are connected to my soul, not my eyes. One can always close the eyes.
bigmandrel 1 year ago
i heard the same orchestra a couple of weeks ago with Brahms' 3rd symphony - it was a total disappointment... So much depends on the conductor!
KlassikFan2007 1 year ago
this recording is probably better than that by VPO also by Kleiber, this is more mature and touching I think
cedricyu803 1 year ago
@cedricyu803 but VPO's sound is unrivaled. Also you are comparing a video to a recording. Kleiber's movement may trick you into thinking that this entire performance is more effusive.
LudwigZhi 1 year ago
From 8:48 to 8:56 Kleiber resembles a giant, as he majestically instructs the orchestra to keep up the beat.
Where are the Kleibers, Furtwanglers and von Karajans of today?
contrerados 2 years ago 3
They are all somewhere in Dudamel. :D
sists43 1 year ago
The finale of the 1st symphony makes the whole thing pay off for me though, real drama and forward motion, almost like an overture of it's own. I seem to be in the minority, but I may be biased, it was the first Brahms symphony I heard when I was young, so it may be a mental association thing for me...:-)
gurlsingerfan 2 years ago 2
I love his 4'th, with the 2'nd movement being my favourite. Not to say his other symphonies don't compare, they are all different.
hornalicious 2 years ago
i <3 the flute parts
milkshakemaisie 2 years ago
so good to draw a parallele with stars wars!!!!!! i don't talk about music but for the characters and the script!
usenowayasaway 2 years ago
It's a matter of taste, and since art is subjective, there's no ultimate judgment as to which is best. I believe his requiem to be his greatest achievement. As to his symphonies, the second and 4th are masterpieces in the orchestral repertoire. His 4th seems to be played backwards: the first movt., heavy and powerful, is a better piece to conclude the symphony.
contrerados 2 years ago
I'm curious as to people's thoughts on his 4th being considered his "Magnum Opus". I have always preferred his other symphonies to this one. What do you think?
KV286 2 years ago
I'd say it's the best, maybe the 2nd in second, then the 1st, then the 3rd. Best slow movement arguably, last movement is pretty impressive, first movement is very weighty, 3rd movement isn't a letdown either.
starry2006 2 years ago
@KV286 You know, I like many symphonies, but Brahms is the only composer about whom I can say that every one of his symphonies are truly great. I don't think Brahms' 4th is better than his 1st. The 2nd and 3rd are not on a par with 1st & 4th, but they are still awesome. That's my 2 centavos.
watutman 2 years ago 2
@KV286 I'm a fan of the 3rd, personally. It's the darkest and its 4th movement is so vigorously serious, its the epitome of Brahms.
jacksongrant15 1 year ago
One of the most terrifying movements in the literature; a relentless driving force towards the final, inescapable tragedy. Kleiber is the servant of Brahms who brings it to life.
brojohannes 2 years ago 2
What a privilege to see him conduct; thank you for posting; I must have heard his name every day while liin Vienna; the older Philharmonickers spoke of him with such revberence!
pegasus1747 2 years ago
"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. It was I who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive...Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"
edmundnschrag 2 years ago
I believe, Sir, that you are associating Brahms' 4th, as a tragedy, to the impending doom of the Rebels attack on the second Death Star? But the chosen one, Anakin, fulfills the prophecy and brings balance to the Force by destroying the Sith, Palpatine, and with him Imperial rule. That's not tragic, that's happy. Brahms' 4th is tragic. I believe Brahms 4th would appropriately accompany the fall of the Jedi and the Republic.
Hmmm, good!
It's like Hamlet, except it's Star Wars.
SpottyDorsord 2 years ago
No, no, no, absolutely not. It's far simpler. Look at Herr Kleiber. Palpatine in the flesh, is ne not!?! I cannot be the only one that sees this.
edmundnschrag 2 years ago 2
I noticed that too. He does look like Palpatine. Also, the music itself would go well with Star Wars.
MrAlexKeaton 1 year ago
Wonderful. Kleiber is tremendous. The dynamics are wonderful and so unforced. This is the most exhausting piece in the Brahms repertoire after the 2nd Piano Concerto (for the conductor never mind the soloist) and Kleiber is clearly drained.
parabat7 2 years ago
I think Kleibers conducting is very expressive and this was an amazing performance in which he really brought out the emotions of this great symphony. But I really don't like how he conducted the last chord. It wasn't powerful at all and he sort of let go of that intensity with an exhausted release. I don't mean this to be a negative comment, just an observation. This is one of the greatest interpretations of Brahms 4th that I've seen.
irichardson21 2 years ago
Deep, moving and sincere. One of the very very best performances of this masterpiece.
yonifarhi1 2 years ago
Deeply moving as this indeed is, and an education to watch him conduct, I don't think it holds a candle to his 1981 VPO recording, which I consider the greatest Brahms 4 ever. I can't find it on Youtube. If someone would explain to me how to upload it, I will....
fiawlty 2 years ago
A most remarkable symphony (and, finally, a terribly tragic symphony) by a most remarkable conductor at the absolute height of his powers. Podium movement has nothing to do with the vitality of a performance. Swallisch at the end of his tenure in Philadelphia was practically immobilized but his music making was electrifying.
brojohannes 2 years ago
They say that most of a conductor's guidance is communicated during rehearsals.
Haidimbya 2 years ago
i have read the comments below, and must say it has been a long time since i have had the pleasure as monitoring a argument on youtube as well presented as this one. all the participants have illustrated their opinions, and i believe them to be just that; opinions and nothing more.
however, i share the eye of berto41. i see only precision and grace in CK's execution, and believe his physical fatigue to be completely irrelevant, as it in NO WAY hindered his performance.
twobitbutterfly 2 years ago
Well, obviously we disagree. I don't believe he was physically on top of his game, and I think that resulted in him having insufficient energy to ensure the thorough realisation of his concept of the symphony. I for no second doubt that he was on top of his game in terms of interpretive sophistication, but as I've made clear, I don't think he was able to bring out the desired execution from the players. A significant aspect of his reputation rests on the energetic effect of his performances.
SpottyDorsord 2 years ago
Comment removed
gogofradi 2 years ago
Could somebody says in which film could I hear the beginning of this movement?
gogofradi 2 years ago
I too SpottyDorsord commented on this a few months ago. It is around the 6:45 minute mark in this movement that you can see the fatigue and sloppiness settle in. He has lost that incredible focus maintained for 3 1/2 movements.
But one must accept the glory, the total immersion of his being into this score. It is unsurpassed for me.
But you are right--and just imagine how he felt, with his super-sensitive nature, knowing that, at the end, he had run out of gas.
Noble but tragic.
ipmoic 2 years ago 2
ipmoic, well said and with HALF the offensiveness of my own words. This particular evening would have done nothing to keep aflame his fading Dionysian desires and ideals.
SpottyDorsord 2 years ago
One Hundred BRAVOSSS
Paolom86 2 years ago
As davedart34 points out, it may have the remnants of Kleiberian sculpting, but it is nonetheless a sagging fart of a performance, especially at the end. Any fool who thinks otherwise may only look at Carlos' face at the end and witness his dejected expression.
The poor guy was old and sick; he couldn't muster the troops. In many ways I think this is a sad video. Kleiber fans who adore it are simply dopey poseurs oblivious to his genuine genius.
SpottyDorsord 2 years ago
I adore Kleiber, but I agree, he looks, old. Kleiber's time (very sadly) before this video.
MasterAzunai 2 years ago
And yet another apology...spelt apology and beautifully wrongly didn't I?
alaspooryorick0160 2 years ago
Absolutely correct my dear Berto41. I wasup to my kneck in it at the time but well deserve your beutifully worded bollocking. Please accept my appologies, secerely meant.
alaspooryorick0160 2 years ago
I do not require a bunch of fucking wankers telling me that this is good or not. I am sufficiently informed to make my own judgement. Bravo Brahms! and fuck you lot.
alaspooryorick0160 2 years ago
The woodwinds are really getting it ON!!
pylgrym 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Listen to George Szell Cleveland Symphony Orchestra recording of this piece. It is much better.
dsbottom 2 years ago
The extraordinary attention he pays to details is what makes this, and many other recordings of his, remarkable and unmatched.
contrerados 2 years ago 13
his interpretation is incredible :-) I truly enjoyed it.
DiesIrae676 2 years ago 2
I love the little come-to-Jesus he has with the horns at 0:20.
Jokanaan 2 years ago
Musically shaped yes but it's a mess
davedart34 2 years ago
Carlos Cleiber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe there's a video of him conducting Brahms 4! His recording with VPO is my absolute favorite!He makes so few recordings, and he is in such a position where he can get away with albums that are 35 or 40 minutes long (which means I have to spend extra money LOL but it's worthwhile)
LudwigZhi 2 years ago 3
This Conductor is amazing...
strawberrson 2 years ago
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I just can't get enough of this. Let me drown in a sea of Brahms' music.
theoryjoe 2 years ago 2
Fantastic!!
ajbittencourt 2 years ago
Many thanks berto41 for your insights and information.
ipmoic 2 years ago
do you see the duel that begins in 0:18 with a trombone player who fell asleep ?
etiterum 2 years ago 2
or was it the french horn player ?
etiterum 2 years ago
Don't make Herr Kleiber angry. He'll shoot lightning out of his hands like he did to Luke, or he'll reach up and pull the mezzanine seats right down on onto you.
edmundnschrag 2 years ago 29
Hahahahaha
taviona 2 years ago
lololololol this made me laugh :)
MasterAzunai 2 years ago
@edmundnschrag ... Who is Luke, may I ask?
iplongnin 1 year ago
@iplongnin ... Luke Skywalker, as in Episode VI.
At first, I thought John Williams was largely influenced by Tchaikowski and Brahms, but now I clearly see Palpatine was inspired by Herr Kleiber himself.
Or perhaps Ian McDiarmid and Herr Kleiber were merely separated at birth?
(No, McDiarmid b. 1944, Kleiber b. 1930)
edmundnschrag 1 year ago
@edmundnschrag None of those things are possible, so I think I'll pants him.
psmtheman 1 year ago
@edmundnschrag jk.
psmtheman 1 year ago
Very funny, yes!
ezekieloak 2 years ago
The one and only Carlos Kleiber...!
doktordrakator 2 years ago 4
Is this one of his last performances? I'm just getting to know his recordings now. The man seems to literally run out of gas at about 9:11--just 24 seconds before the end. He appears not well....
Remarkable music making--so intimate, detailed and fulfilling.
ipmoic 2 years ago
god the whole part in 6 4 is just so beautiful, how does someone compose this stuff.
TheGroceryman2 2 years ago
i really miss this movement.
monsterdare 2 years ago
can anybody tell me in which year this performance took place??
urs1765 2 years ago
This is the famous concert he gave in Münich in 1996. He was paid riantly for this concert, one of his best performances ever and if I am correct, it was his last public one. Audi was one of the sponsors and gave him a brandnew A8. This was Keiber: excentric but so pure and perfect! It's such a shame that there are only few films of his performances and rehearsals available. Probably one of the best conductors ever.
GiantWerner 2 years ago 11
I dare to go further: In my opinion Kleiber was the greatest conductor in history.
But you're wrong concerning his concerts. After this one he gave some others too. The last were 1999 in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Valencia and Cagliari.
As far as I know you can hear a recording from one of these concerts where Kleiber conducts the Ouverture of Strauss' Fledermaus.
All the best
Ethratian 2 years ago 4
@GiantWerner
I think concert was not in Munich, but in the nice little town Ingolstadt. Was it really the last public concert on earth?
cantkeepitin 1 year ago 2
@GiantWerner
I think Audi concert you mentioned was not in Munich, but in the nice little town Ingolstadt. Was it really the last public concert on earth? From the background I would say that this concert video was indeed the Munich Herkules Saal.
cantkeepitin 1 year ago
One of my favorite Brahms movements.
Argonaut22j 2 years ago
da 3.11 fl solo: scambierei senza esitare una notte di passione con Naomi Campbell, per questa intimità
maxtanz 2 years ago
Great maestro,Sublime masterpiece.And there are many superb recordings.How anyone can claim one the best is beyond me,even given the subjectivity.There are recordings(live and rec) of better performances(incl Kleiber) and with better orchestras(Bav St, is a fine ensemble).A satisfyng performance is made better with a great orchestra playing at their peak.Yet Brahms 4 can enthral with even ordinary orchestras.
SiegfriedHorner 2 years ago 3
i found the video part is almost a bit behind the audio part...what a regret...
harriethtw 2 years ago
hehe....did yall check out the bassoon player at 1:00? was he wearing big glasses or sunglasses? It would have been funny if those were sunglasses.
ahauswal 2 years ago
I think it's just a bi, old-fashion glasses.. LOL
harriethtw 2 years ago
Comment removed
ahauswal 2 years ago
What about Giulini with Chicago? I prefer that recording.
jbryles 2 years ago
4:30 rips my heart in half
SingHouse 3 years ago 2
@SingHouse absolutely agreed. Just played this a couple days ago with the Buffalo State Philharmonia. Compared to this recording in no way whatsoever, but was one of the most beautiful things I've heard in my life, almost started weeping on stage. One thing to hear it, another thing completely to play it, to feel each beat and each note. Gotta love it; an experience like no other.
2Stupid2BeSpoken 2 years ago
Kleiber made a recording of this symphony with the Vienna Philharmonic that is not only the best recording of the symphony, but probably one of the best recordings of any piece ever.
jnicho19 3 years ago 4
I agree completely. I have never heard it made better
rmir2 2 years ago
I have that recording!!!!! absolutely correct! the last movement especially. the only interpretation that makes perfect sense, mainly with regard to the last minute of the piece. the energy is inexorable. I love the change of speed(faster) and then it stays at this perfect right up to the tragic end!
1907Quarter 2 years ago
As much as that studio recording is touted, I have an even BETTER one of Kleiber and the VPO that is from a live performance. The sound quality is not as good, but the performance is amazing.
Still, nobody beats Furtwangler on this one for me. Not even Kleiber. :)
BorisGodunov 2 years ago
Listen to Mravinsky 1973 performance with the Leningrad Philharmonic, you will find the audio and performance incredible.
jsfr71 2 years ago
Thanks for the recommendation. A good performance, but it still doesn't come close to Furtwangler for me. :)
BorisGodunov 2 years ago
I agree : )
o0Prometheus0o 2 years ago
This is very nice. I would recommend the Cleveland Orchestra's recording under the direction of George Szell. That is a very nice recording as well.
dsbottom 3 years ago
No deja de sorprenderme... La musica se siente
Ohracio1985 3 years ago
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not the best orchestra, not the best conductor --> not the best interpretation, but its acceptable
levin312 3 years ago
For the orchestra i can't say, but the conductor is the BEST!
CsOH23 3 years ago
I know 1 bar, I can feel 1 bar, but up to 05:34, this 1 bar per breath! Great!
allegrettus 3 years ago
Un compositor usa pentagrama y nota para volcar sus conocimientos tecnicos y su emocion en una composicion. Un director lo que hace es recrear- segun su propia interpretacion. Hay muchas reinterpretaciones y es cuestion de gusto decidir si A o B lo hace mejor. Este es asunto a veces de modas-nada tecnico por cierto- o de oportunidades Y cualquiera que sepa de musica sabe que cada quien hace lo maximo por salir bien,como en este caso,pues a Kleiber le sobran meritos y conocimientos .
JorPove 3 years ago
From 1:01 to about 1:40 I just want to die. It's as though you want Kleiber to stab the floor with his baton and then scream
npa589 3 years ago 2
I realize Karajan's contributions to the repopularization of classical music is greatly appreciated, but his interpretations of Beethoven's symphonies are very overrated.
beemochobrahms 3 years ago 6
5:48 - 6:08, and then 6:09 - 6:40 are spectacular.
musicalidea 3 years ago
This man is the finest conductor since Toscanini and his pupil, Guido Cantelli.
His attention to inner detail and overall sweep is second to none.
KipnisStudios 3 years ago
There are sectional balance issues in the transitional section from 1:24 - 1:44, where the higher woodwinds also go slightly off pitch. There are also intonation and synchronicity problems from 2:16 - 2:23 in the first violins.
musicalidea 3 years ago