@420evo420 I have not dynoed the car. Matching the time slip incrementals to a drag racing sim, the estimated peak BHP is 1130 at 32 psi boost. The fuel table is showing peak torque to be at 5700 rpm.
@luciffer420 That's the beauty of this system. The burn of the nitrous/methanol ALS is so controlled, consistent, and efficient that you don't get the pop and banging like you get with the erratic combustion of the gasoline type ALS. The nitrous/methanol ALS is as smooth as glass.
@badslabber You're correct. It's made from 304 stainless. The primaries are stepped from 1.625" ID up to 9.7" length to 1.75" ID for a total primary length of 29". The bank collectors are 2.125" ID before the turbine housing. The exhaust pipe after the turbine housing is 5" dia., and the wastegate tubing is 2" dia.
The n/f ratio I use with the primary system is very rich. In fact, with my particular setup, if I were to go just one jet size richer on the fuel side, the engine would rich miss on the activation of the system. The richness of the primary system helps supply the ALS and also allows the use of one jet setting to cover the range of different nitrous bottle pressure conditions. The system works with just one jet setting regardless of whether the nitrous bottle pressure is 750 psi or 1100 psi.
Just like the gasoline pop and bang als, there is an amount of ignition retard that will be necessary to light off the part of the nitrous/methanol mixture that does not get converted into work in the cylinder and makes its way into the exhaust system. When dealing with a methanol fueled engine, that amount of retard is not nearly as much as would be necessary with a gasoline fueled engine. This means less loss of engne power during the als process.
@yoyoappled Well, I suppose that it doesn't matter really because it's not being injecting in the engine, it's just in the exhaust, I suppose if the exhaust temps are hot enough it could work...
@jarrus464 i wouldnt think so because in diesel engine's the gas mixture is detonated by pressure and its injected at 'pressurization' part of the cycle.
If you look closely at the underhood shot test, you will notice that I was playing with using the spool valve with the ALS a little. I closed the spool valve before going WOT for the test. As soon as the nitrous systems were activated, the spool valve was opened. I have since abandoned using the spool valve altogether in favor of the ALS.
Don't get me wrong. The spool valve did create a performance increase when used. It's just that the performance increase of the ALS was double of what the spool valve could give.
Lighting off of the primary ALS is sensitive. You will want as little exhaust system back pressure as possible. Another reason to use a large turbine housing. I tried using our mechanical spooling valve with the ALS tune, and the extra back pressure created by the spool valve killed the ALS. I shelved the mechanical spool valve in favor of the superior performance of the ALS.
I know in the video I state that the exhaust back pressure to intake boost pressure ratio is .95:1. I was being conservative with that number. It was actually measured at .85-.95:1 when at 28 psi boost pressure.
To extract the most out of this system, camshaft and manifold tuning will be very important. The performance of my particular combination is being achieved with small number flowing heads with 1.835" int and 1.5" exh valves. Obviously, being able to take advantage of the achieved cylinder head gas flow crossover is very advantageous to improving top end performance.
This new system is going to open up a whole new way for configuring and tuning a turbocharged engiine.
I should first add that since you will be working with gas flow through the engine that will involve crossover, you should configure the engine as if you are working with a naturally aspirated engine attempting to achieve a level of resonance tuning. Intake and exhaust manifolding now becomes important in maximizing top end performance!
Since you will be using this system to provide spoolup of the turbo, you can do away with the compromise of having to run a small turbine housing to get a decent spoolup. Run a larger turbine housing which will allow much more potential for top end performance. I run a turbine housing that provides a better than 1 to 1 ratio of exhaust back pressure to intake boost pressure at the 28 psi boost pressure level. Crossover achieved!!! This fact makes a larger overlap camshaft even more attractive.
Camshaft EGR is also a very important part in making this system effective. Don't be shy with the overlap. Once the tune is found to light off the ALS, you want some reversion of the higher temp exhaust to help extract more power from the incoming nitrous/methanol charge in the cylinder. A sort of preheat for the charge.
This complete system is a coordinated effort of many systems on the engine. It is not just throwing a nitrous system on any engine configuration.
Nitrous/Methanol is such a cooling combination that only a percentage of the jet size rating of the primary stage actually converts to work in the cylinders. Part of the charge moves on to the exhaust system, which fuels the ALS portion of the system. Nitrous is 30 percent oxygen and methanol is 50 percent oxygen by weight. That is how the ALS portion of the system receives the oxygen needed for the primary ALS burn. The afterburner also receives the needed oxygen in the same manner.
got it, the first stage aids in providing flow and rpm, the second stage completes the antilag by causing the turbo to as you say run like a jet engine, genius. thanks for the info, i will be sure to figure the specifics out on my own this will help a lot once our team car is done. again, amazing job, hope to see more videos
Let me start by saying that there are two different nitrous stages that are activated practically simultaneously. The main stage is a general port injected wet system. The afterburner stage is a single wet fogger nozzle that injects a small distance before the turbine housing of the turbocharger. Both stages use nitrous oxide matched with methanol. The nitrous/methanol ratios are very specific for each stage and are important in making the ALS/Afterburner operate properly.
this is an interesting setup, i was planning on making a similar setup but it would be more related to the air-injection ALS tha rally cars use would you be able to let me know how this methanol/nitrous ALS works? is the nitrous being used normally into the engine or into the manifold? i am really pleased to see there are still innovations being made in turbocharging, congratulations.
@ST165SLEEPER The system as a whole, hardware wise, is simple to setup, especially if one is familiar with using nitrous oxide. The principles of operation is a bit involved. If there's interest, I can start by explaining the hardware setup.
Congratulations! Last year I successfully applied the afterburn principle to eliminate lag on my Audi-TDI endurance car with great results and currently building a TDI-V10 with this feature for shorter sprint events. I believe you are the only person who has successfully applied the afterburn technique to a Hi-performance petrol racer, your results look amazing. Grass-roots racing at its best.
@manxcafe Thanks. I have to correct you on one thing, though. This engine runs on pure methanol. There is no gasoline (petrol) used anywhere on this car, except for priming on a cold startup.
Hi, I'm really interested in this concept since I'm also into drag racing, but here in Thailand most cars still rely on more or less ancient methods for everything from tuning to engine setups. I was wondering whether or not you could fill me into the details of how this was setup, and if possible, with permission, would like to implement this innovation into my drag car. Thanks
@DonW21G Well If you will, I would like to know exactly how this is set up, So I can explain to my mechanics team, exactly detail by detail on how it works, it is set up, and how we can further implement this system.
@FTBoogie This is the first I've heard of the term hyperbar. If it means combustion outside of the combustion chamber of the engine to supply extra energy to help spool the turbo, then yes, that is what is happening.
it was upset to see it was a buick at first but then....phew....that shit is just right
mtxgsxr 1 month ago
@mtxgsxr Thanks.
DonW21G 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
have u tried with an engine equip with NOS? methane+nos and this thing could be disaster
FlipFlopTrick 1 month ago
Comment removed
FlipFlopTrick 1 month ago
Have u dynoed it? If so how much hp is it making and what rpm do u make max tq?
420evo420 5 months ago
@420evo420 I have not dynoed the car. Matching the time slip incrementals to a drag racing sim, the estimated peak BHP is 1130 at 32 psi boost. The fuel table is showing peak torque to be at 5700 rpm.
DonW21G 5 months ago
The nitrous/methanol ALS is evidenced by a flatline 1.0 lambda reading on the wideband O2 sensor. That's when you know you have the tune right.
DonW21G 5 months ago
wheres the anti lag? i see not anti lag system
luciffer420 5 months ago
@luciffer420 That's the beauty of this system. The burn of the nitrous/methanol ALS is so controlled, consistent, and efficient that you don't get the pop and banging like you get with the erratic combustion of the gasoline type ALS. The nitrous/methanol ALS is as smooth as glass.
DonW21G 5 months ago
nice gn
andre141106 5 months ago
at idle ,you get that distinctive ,tin tin tin ,sound ,,would i be right in thinking its a stainless steel system (3 inch bore),that give this :)
badslabber 6 months ago
@badslabber You're correct. It's made from 304 stainless. The primaries are stepped from 1.625" ID up to 9.7" length to 1.75" ID for a total primary length of 29". The bank collectors are 2.125" ID before the turbine housing. The exhaust pipe after the turbine housing is 5" dia., and the wastegate tubing is 2" dia.
DonW21G 6 months ago
What did you do to correct the valve geometry of the heads? Are the rockers still on shafts?
seapeddler 7 months ago
@seapeddler I'm using 1.7 Jesel shaft mounted rockers.
DonW21G 7 months ago
i aint saying shit because theres nothing to say about this. period! :) 5 stars!
watchthisrobotmove 8 months ago
Im a honda guy myself. But this set-up is sick! Nice work.
EgHonda18 8 months ago
lol @ OH! DANG!
ylreddagnof 8 months ago
The richness of the primary system also makes this system very safe.
DonW21G 1 year ago
The n/f ratio I use with the primary system is very rich. In fact, with my particular setup, if I were to go just one jet size richer on the fuel side, the engine would rich miss on the activation of the system. The richness of the primary system helps supply the ALS and also allows the use of one jet setting to cover the range of different nitrous bottle pressure conditions. The system works with just one jet setting regardless of whether the nitrous bottle pressure is 750 psi or 1100 psi.
DonW21G 1 year ago
The afterburner n/f ratio is simply a best power kind of ratio. The n/f ratio used with the primary port injected system is a different story.
DonW21G 1 year ago
With my particular engine, the als trigger point is 14 degrees BTDC.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Just like the gasoline pop and bang als, there is an amount of ignition retard that will be necessary to light off the part of the nitrous/methanol mixture that does not get converted into work in the cylinder and makes its way into the exhaust system. When dealing with a methanol fueled engine, that amount of retard is not nearly as much as would be necessary with a gasoline fueled engine. This means less loss of engne power during the als process.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Could something like this work on a turbo diesel?
jarrus464 1 year ago
@jarrus464 I'm sorry. I don't have an answer for you.
DonW21G 1 year ago
@jarrus464 nope this is thru the ignition..where as diesels use compression
yoyoappled 9 months ago
@yoyoappled Well, I suppose that it doesn't matter really because it's not being injecting in the engine, it's just in the exhaust, I suppose if the exhaust temps are hot enough it could work...
jarrus464 9 months ago
@jarrus464 i wouldnt think so because in diesel engine's the gas mixture is detonated by pressure and its injected at 'pressurization' part of the cycle.
asshatnowhere159 7 months ago
If you look closely at the underhood shot test, you will notice that I was playing with using the spool valve with the ALS a little. I closed the spool valve before going WOT for the test. As soon as the nitrous systems were activated, the spool valve was opened. I have since abandoned using the spool valve altogether in favor of the ALS.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Don't get me wrong. The spool valve did create a performance increase when used. It's just that the performance increase of the ALS was double of what the spool valve could give.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Lighting off of the primary ALS is sensitive. You will want as little exhaust system back pressure as possible. Another reason to use a large turbine housing. I tried using our mechanical spooling valve with the ALS tune, and the extra back pressure created by the spool valve killed the ALS. I shelved the mechanical spool valve in favor of the superior performance of the ALS.
DonW21G 1 year ago
I know in the video I state that the exhaust back pressure to intake boost pressure ratio is .95:1. I was being conservative with that number. It was actually measured at .85-.95:1 when at 28 psi boost pressure.
DonW21G 1 year ago
To extract the most out of this system, camshaft and manifold tuning will be very important. The performance of my particular combination is being achieved with small number flowing heads with 1.835" int and 1.5" exh valves. Obviously, being able to take advantage of the achieved cylinder head gas flow crossover is very advantageous to improving top end performance.
This new system is going to open up a whole new way for configuring and tuning a turbocharged engiine.
DonW21G 1 year ago
I should first add that since you will be working with gas flow through the engine that will involve crossover, you should configure the engine as if you are working with a naturally aspirated engine attempting to achieve a level of resonance tuning. Intake and exhaust manifolding now becomes important in maximizing top end performance!
DonW21G 1 year ago
Next, I'll cover the tune of, and how to light off the primary ALS portion of the system.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Since you will be using this system to provide spoolup of the turbo, you can do away with the compromise of having to run a small turbine housing to get a decent spoolup. Run a larger turbine housing which will allow much more potential for top end performance. I run a turbine housing that provides a better than 1 to 1 ratio of exhaust back pressure to intake boost pressure at the 28 psi boost pressure level. Crossover achieved!!! This fact makes a larger overlap camshaft even more attractive.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Camshaft EGR is also a very important part in making this system effective. Don't be shy with the overlap. Once the tune is found to light off the ALS, you want some reversion of the higher temp exhaust to help extract more power from the incoming nitrous/methanol charge in the cylinder. A sort of preheat for the charge.
This complete system is a coordinated effort of many systems on the engine. It is not just throwing a nitrous system on any engine configuration.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Nitrous/Methanol is such a cooling combination that only a percentage of the jet size rating of the primary stage actually converts to work in the cylinders. Part of the charge moves on to the exhaust system, which fuels the ALS portion of the system. Nitrous is 30 percent oxygen and methanol is 50 percent oxygen by weight. That is how the ALS portion of the system receives the oxygen needed for the primary ALS burn. The afterburner also receives the needed oxygen in the same manner.
DonW21G 1 year ago
got it, the first stage aids in providing flow and rpm, the second stage completes the antilag by causing the turbo to as you say run like a jet engine, genius. thanks for the info, i will be sure to figure the specifics out on my own this will help a lot once our team car is done. again, amazing job, hope to see more videos
ST165SLEEPER 1 year ago
Let me start by saying that there are two different nitrous stages that are activated practically simultaneously. The main stage is a general port injected wet system. The afterburner stage is a single wet fogger nozzle that injects a small distance before the turbine housing of the turbocharger. Both stages use nitrous oxide matched with methanol. The nitrous/methanol ratios are very specific for each stage and are important in making the ALS/Afterburner operate properly.
DonW21G 1 year ago
please do
ST165SLEEPER 1 year ago
this is an interesting setup, i was planning on making a similar setup but it would be more related to the air-injection ALS tha rally cars use would you be able to let me know how this methanol/nitrous ALS works? is the nitrous being used normally into the engine or into the manifold? i am really pleased to see there are still innovations being made in turbocharging, congratulations.
ST165SLEEPER 1 year ago
@ST165SLEEPER The system as a whole, hardware wise, is simple to setup, especially if one is familiar with using nitrous oxide. The principles of operation is a bit involved. If there's interest, I can start by explaining the hardware setup.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Congratulations! Last year I successfully applied the afterburn principle to eliminate lag on my Audi-TDI endurance car with great results and currently building a TDI-V10 with this feature for shorter sprint events. I believe you are the only person who has successfully applied the afterburn technique to a Hi-performance petrol racer, your results look amazing. Grass-roots racing at its best.
manxcafe 1 year ago
@manxcafe Thanks. I have to correct you on one thing, though. This engine runs on pure methanol. There is no gasoline (petrol) used anywhere on this car, except for priming on a cold startup.
DonW21G 1 year ago
Hi, I'm really interested in this concept since I'm also into drag racing, but here in Thailand most cars still rely on more or less ancient methods for everything from tuning to engine setups. I was wondering whether or not you could fill me into the details of how this was setup, and if possible, with permission, would like to implement this innovation into my drag car. Thanks
abeepak1 1 year ago
@abeepak1 What would you like to know about the system?
DonW21G 1 year ago
@DonW21G Well If you will, I would like to know exactly how this is set up, So I can explain to my mechanics team, exactly detail by detail on how it works, it is set up, and how we can further implement this system.
abeepak1 1 year ago
Pretty cool, what text font is that??
slickrick301988 1 year ago
@slickrick301988 The computer that I edited the video with is down at the moment. I'll let you know after I get it back up so I can find out.
DonW21G 1 year ago
@DonW21G Ah I see, well Nitrous is indeed a very effective way to spool a turbo.
FTBoogie 1 year ago
@FTBoogie Actually, a nitrous/methanol mix is not very impressive compared to a nitrous/gasoline mix. Even with a large shot size.
The combination would not have worked out if it wasn't for the anti lag and afterburner tune.
DonW21G 1 year ago
So is it essentially just hyperbar turbocharging like what is done with rally cars?
I noticed you mentioned the back pressure to boost ratio as being less than one, which would allow for hyperbar combustion to take place.
FTBoogie 1 year ago
@FTBoogie This is the first I've heard of the term hyperbar. If it means combustion outside of the combustion chamber of the engine to supply extra energy to help spool the turbo, then yes, that is what is happening.
DonW21G 1 year ago
@FTBoogie Exactly how it works is a little more complicated than the rally car systems.
DonW21G 1 year ago
love what u did with the car
cartoonboi 1 year ago
So much for that fume collector !!
D3vin77 1 year ago