CLIMBING TOOLS -Sport 101 - The Lower - Part 1

[NearlyDutch]

This is actually bad, overly complicated. I'm suprised this could be seen as an instruction video.

[Cheesemax96]

lol.. you do this on a way that is

- funny

- uncomfortable

- unnecessary

and it looks pretty nerve-wracking (not sure with that word Im not a native english speaker :)

[thumlyly]

There are two bolted ring hangers, each with a rappel ring. Why there is a chain and a steel carabiner, we are not told and they are not part of the demonstration, so another anchor should have been used. Using one anchor is bad practice; and using a ring to belay is bad practice. The lead has not made a top-rope rigging with her own gear to be belayed down, and has not properly rappelled on two strands reaching the ground that do not slide through the two rings. Nothing in it is good practice.

[mikebarter387]

@thumlyly Oh boy, Where to start? The anchor actually only has one rap ring. I believe it is a Fixe chain station that is incorrectly placed( horz instead or vert). This anchor was in Spain and there like here no standard system is implimented. Getting lowered off the climb is much more common then fixing a rappell system. The lead does not have to fix her own gear to be lowered. The fixed steel biner is very common in Spain not something I like to use personally but they do there. Bring IT!!

[ivanovivan11]

I know that she is an experienced climber but why didn't she proceed with securing the figure 8 on a bight with an overhand knot or a double fisherman?

[mikebarter387]

@ivanovivan11 There is so much tail it is not required. The overhand is just for show to clean up the knot it is not a structual part of te knot. If the figure 8 is constructed properly there is no need for an additional knot.

[maxinpains]

the lady has a nice rack...can't believe she had that many childrens...LOL

[ted2758]

MIKE CUTS NOTHING NOSE PICKA!!!

[mezzanodalaghetto]

Nice boobs!

[putamierda1983]

nice boobs!

[shabbaamyas]

so i read the posts from yasso, then i read the ACMG qualifications... im gonna have to go with the guide on this one.

[sytby]

wrap 5-7mm cord (tied in a loop with fisherman's knots) 3-5 times around both strands of the rope, below the rap device. Clip a small locking 'biner through the ends of the loop and around a leg loop on your brake-hand side. It acts much like a prussik. For more, see Freedom of the Hills, 7 ed, p. 203, fig 11-19.

[headchange78]

Yea what she is doing is not recommended, but a fast way out of the nest and down ASAP if needed. However it would have been better if she ran her bite through two points of the lower off, and also would have been better if she took her locking and ran it through her harness and not just off her belay loop. But honestly look at many of Mikes other videos, he definitely makes top choices. This not being the best one, sorry Mike! haha

[werdnativ]

I wouldn't overdo the worrying about clipping into a single steel biner or cold shut. They don't just break under body weight... just inspect it and go.

For a lower-off, the belay loop is perfectly good. You rappel from that same loop, and the belayer uses the same thing to hold your hangdogging ass over and over... The only things I thread through my harness & leg loops is the rope and a daisy chain. That leaves the belay loop free for more practical uses, such as this.

Good vid.

[simongeering]

Mike, thanks for this video.

Am off sport climbing on south coast of UK this weekend and it was very helpful.

I was first tought this technique at the National Mountanearing Center in Wales, and as you note it's something to practice before you need it for real.

This was a useful reminder of the key points covered on that course, would be nice to have the other half covering what to do if the rap ring is too small for a bight of rope.

[mikebarter387]

The woman teaching this is a ACMG mountain guide and mountain Safety Specialist in banff, Canada. The guy filming is a mountain guide with 20 years experience. This shot takes place in Spain and it is how we deal with this type of anchor. We wouldn't show this otherwise. You are right to question us, your book, instructors. Sounds like you are doing things right. good luck out there.

[Dwiman89]

Im new to climbing, but isnt this considered rappeling through a "cold shut" anchor and ill advised. I dont trully understand it. It was just in a guidebook I have... I am just top roping for now and only climb things that have safe access to the top in order to set up top rope. My rack isnt equiped enough for this nor do I have the knowledge yet, but i would like learnign the general concepts now.

[mikebarter387]

The woman teaching this is a ACMG mountain guide and mountain Safety Specialist in banff, Canada. The guy filming is a mountain guide with 20 years experience. This shot takes place in Spain and it is how we deal with this type of anchor. We wouldn't show this otherwise. You are right to question us, your book, instructors. Sounds like you are doing things right. good luck out there.

[RICHY940]

great vids iv laerned a lot! wat do you think about stoppers compared to cams ......the only reason i like stopers is cause they are afordable...

[mikebarter387]

I hear you. I like stoppers because they are predictable. However cams will go places that nuts will not. So you have to have both for most longer gear routes. No way around that really other then running it out.

[generationfourth]

MIke,

I like this system and it seems faster and more safe than using something like my metolious pas. But what about anchors that use just chains instead of a large ring that you can slip a bight through?

[mikebarter387]

You have a god and valid point. I Anchors that you can't get a byte through you have to clip your self in with two pieces to a hard point (Belay loop). Then you have to clip the rope to the anchor so that you don't drop it. Nect you have to untie from the rope (scary) and feed the end then re-tye into the rope or hook in with a locking biner and a 8 on a bight. Your right though I need to do a video on this to be complete.

Mike

[mikebarter387]

What ever you do do not try this following the directions I just gave you. Youtube is not a great place to learn this technique. I only add it for completeness and do so hesitantly. Anybody ever seen me put in so many disclaimers. I will answer that, no you haven't. I'm a jerk at heart and don' really like people but up till now at least I can say I ain't never killed anybody that didn't need killin.

[yasso2am]

I understand you are just trying to make an educational video and be helpful to beginner climbers. You do make the claim that this is not professional instruction, however I think simply having this up will lead people astray. Furthermore, I feel as though the method you are teaching here is less safe/ethical than many other methods and I wish you properly followed the directions you described above.

[yasso2am]

Technically many crags do not like when you "lower" off the rap rings because it causes undue wear on the rings. They are called Rap rings because you are supposed to Rappel off of them. Clipping yourself in via two points and untie-ing from the rope should not be scary at all. You simply need to trust in your gear and understand exactly what you are doing.

[yasso2am]

Once you put yourself on rappel and properly secure an autobloc, it is simply a matter of removing your two clips and safely and ethically rappelling to the ground.

I commend your attempt here, and I understand everyone does things differently, however I just thought I'd voice my concern.

[mikebarter387]

Technically after several years of constant use they may show signs of wear and technically the crags hommies technically replace the rings cause it looks like your not technically going to do it, technically speaking.

[mikebarter387]

This method is THE method for this anchor. End of story. The unfortunate thing is that your long winded babble only confuses those who are trying to learn.

[dmosier]

More good tips from Mike Barter and Friends.

Keep it up !