...As.you can.You may also wish to go back over what you studied in the past. Those who do so, more often than not, come away from the experience with a different impression of the material the second time around. :)
I would strongly recommend to all the debate here on youtube Dr. Michael Brown and Harry Knox... Dr. Brown completely demolishes any basis for a bible-based apologetic of homosexual & unnatural affection behavior. It's so hard to imagine how these matters can be made clearer where God stands when the Apostle Paul clearly states: DO NOT BE DECEIVED (one might infer that he is clearly stating that there are those who WILL intentionally try to therefore DECEIVE you)
Sure he is...... because you see "cay56" is a master propagandist who has been at this for months, if not years.The primary technique is simple, but generally effective in confusing the simple-minded. Cite scriptures out of context, play semantic games and argue from (supposed) silence.His illogical rants shd serve as a valuable object lesson in the lengths to which some will go to misrepresent and distort. All shd read II Pet 2 & Jude
"But no where in the bible did it say bein a gay is a gift from GOD!!!"
Many probably didn't see Christ's brutal death as any sort of "gift" when it happened since our Lord's plan is most often neither nor immediately known.
" it do speak bad about the sodemites though:)"
Yep, it uses the term in Deuteronomy and 1-2 Kings in reference to prostitutes. This reflects all homosexuals as well as the prostitute who bathed Christ's feet with hear tears did all heterosexuals.
He said love your neighbor...and dont judge unless thy be judge. But no where in the bible did it say bein a gay is a gift from GOD!!! it do speak bad about the sodemites though:)
Catholics... They change what the REAL Bible says... Check this out... This is what it says in the REAL HOLY BIBLE
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
Catholics... They change what the REAL Bible says... Check this out... This is what it says in the REAL HOLY BIBLE
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
@clay56 Dude, if you want to be gay...go for it! You are the only one that has to stand in front of Jesus on judgement day. You dont have to prove to me that homosexuality is NOT a sin! Thats something you have to prove to God!
Looks like you're making assumptions again since there are heteros that are advocates for gay Christians.
"You dont have to prove to me that homosexuality is NOT a sin!"
Haven't been trying to, just showing you why your evidence is not concrete proof of it being sin in all stiuations. And Im sure, when your own time comes, that our Lord will hear the prayers of gay Christians and their advocates for your forgiveness if... (Cont.)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]
No reference to orgy or some Greek ritual. Its pretty cut and dry.
11 And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Verse 11 advises that you can change and so did people before you!
I then applaud your convincing impression of someone responding to the dissent of his view with what TRULY appeared to be shock and near hysterical outrage.
"But my caps means that this is something i want you to really pay attention to in reading!"
You may want to take your own advice and re read my posting on 1 Cor. 6:9 to save yourself the trouble of all that unneccessary quoting next time.
"...there is NO REFERENCE in the bible to this GAY CHRISTIAN apostacy that you are trying to introduce."
Stating that gay Christians are a contridiction in terms is based more in personal presumption than fact since the Bible speaks to homosexuality almost entirely in terms of pegan ritual and prostitution. It doesn't address all types of same gender relationships. And Im sure terms like "apostacy" and "heresey" were used by the Roman Catholics to condemn the first... (Cont.)
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Talks about how siunce you refuse to adhere to the law, God gave you up to pagnism and sinful practices...as well as a reprobated mindset. This is a cursed mindset that no matter what you will never see your sin.
"Talks about how siunce you refuse to adhere to the law, God gave you up to pagnism and sinful practices..."
Paul says this in Romans about the people who FIRST abandoned our Lord in favor of such practices. This doesn't describe gay Christians, who would deplore such acts even as they themselves are indiscriminately, mistakenly grouped in with the pegan ritual participants by those exploiting Rom. 1 in their effort to condemn them.
@clay56 #1 unlike the people that practice homosexulality in the bible and CHANGED per 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (the people that once were) there is NO REFERENCE in the bible to this GAY CHRISTIAN apostacy that you are trying to introduce. It is reblellion because you refuse to even CONSIDER the option of renewing your mind through the WOrd of God!
...HAVEN'T done this simple thing since you've now twice stated I was attributing 1 Cor. 6:9 to pegan ritual when I stated an entirely different problem you and many other gay Christian opponents have with it, even after I TWICE pointed our your mistake the first time. This make's it pretty obvious your responding in haste and impulse, resulting in some rather foolish postings. So then, why don't you try once more to find my posts on the passage THEN get back to me.
@clay56 There is no reference in the bible of Gay Christians. That is a term that you and your pro gays have MADE UP! However, the bible does speak about men laying with men in the new and Old Testament and how it is sin. So u can assume that it is not talking about you because you call yourself a Christian, but Jesus says that if you love him you will keep His commandments and not twist it with apostasy so it can fit into your current psychological state. Especially when Paul is very specific,
...Sadly does not keep gay Christian opponents from misusing His teachings to make it appear as if He did, resulting in problems regarding the Nineth Commandment which He upheld in Matt. 19:18. And many of those who use words like "twist," "distort" and "apostacy" to condemn dissenting views have tragically sealed their hearts and minds off to ANY possibility of their view and our Lord's will being anything OTHER than one and the same.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
There is NO REFERENCE TO A GAY ORGY IN THIS PASSAGE. Paul is VERY specific!
@clay56 You are the only one that is confused here. You open any bible any where in the country and you will see the DIRECT reference to homosexuality. The fact that you are trying to twist it to justify homosexuality when it is CLEARLY advised from Leviticu to revelations as sin is just desperate! I have no winnings and trying to get you to change...no motive...what you do does not effect me! However, I care enough about people to tell them the truth!
...Would both the male reproductive and waste removal systems make up part of the same organ?
"...you refuse to change but adapt to your sinful nature!"
Just try to stay calm.
Gay Christians and gay welcoming churches would be FAR fewer in number without the support of gay friendly Christians. And "sinful" is part of your view, not neccessarily our Lord's will. You therefore presume too much on my part as well as, it would seem, His.
@clay56 Its not just my view. It is in the bible in Leviticus...however, we are under a new covenant...so we have Romans 1:18-32 were Paul is describing your current mindset about homosexuality. Then u have 1 Corinthians 6:9. Not only that but there are people that were delivered from homosexuality and changed in 1 Cortinthians 6:9-11 (the people that "once were"). In all of these Pro Gay agendas, tolerance, and Pro Gay propaganda is just to detour the option to change...not 2straight but holy!
...Around two Greek terms. The first has a number of definitions. The second is agreed to be Paul's OWN fusion of the terms for "man" and "bed" which many argue is in reference to homosexuality. Yet since Paul didn't specify the definition of the first word or even define the second, it's uncertain he was referring to homosexuality at all, MUCH less all types of same gender relationships. Sadly this is ignored by gay TOO many Christian opponents who use fear... (Cont.)
@clay56 THAT IS A LIE THAT ONLY PRO GAYS SPEAK OF! IF you go to ANY BIBLE and any respected theological interpretation from King James, Amplified, NIV, New American Standard.....PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY. And this orgy myth that YOU are talking about is NEVER mentioned in any of the bibles WRITINGS! Period! Geesh, are you all that desperate???
...Twisting doesn't change the fact that your personal view and our Lord's will are neither neccessarily nor entirely one and the same as you'd evidently have others believe. And I don't "justify homosexuality" as you further accuse. I simply let gay Christian opponents know the problem(s) with their personal interpetations and why they DON'T hold the secure Biblical ground many like to think they do. You mentioned Leviticus, we can talk about that next if you want.
@clay56 THe only data that you have offered to the quite blunt letter that Paul wrote the the church of Corinth and Rome is that you specualte he is talking about a gay orgy. However, that is just speculation and apastacy because you fear CHANGE! Why would we move forward on a subject of levitical law when you dont understand the new covenant? You are not ready to move on for you have not dealt with the facts of the current subject matter!
you are correctbut don't allow 'clay' to mislead. It's true that the word 'homosexuality' is a rather recent term, but the BEHAVIOR RELATED TO THE TERM is there (man lying with man/woman w/woman). Do not be mislead by the argument that the term Apostle Paul uses 'means' something else or has multiple uses.Yes, the world applied to various forms of sexual immorality but Paul meant homosexuality
ALSO THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT WE ARE ALL GOOD. It goes on to explain that we are ALL FALLEN CREATURES
"Yes, the world applied to various forms of sexual immorality but Paul meant homosexuality"
If you're referring to 1 Cor. 6:9, how then do you "know" for certain what Paul meant by one term with a number of meanings and another believed to be his OWN fusion of two words he did not even define?
I read, study, think & seek to arrive at conclusions based on reasonable inferences just as you purport to . Traditionalists do not see any of this in isolation, however, since received moral wisdom & what has proven 'good' for society as a whole is also of great value.As for how the proper of meaning of scripture on this matter is derived I really can't see how further elaboration would help. Pls note from our earlier discussions the issue of context & the origin of the word 'arsenocoites'
I read, study, think & seek to arrive at conclusions based on reasonable inferences just as you purport to . Traditionalists do not see any of this in isolation, however, since received moral wisdom & what has proven 'good' for society as a whole is also of great value.As for how the proper of meaning of scripture on this matter is derived I really can't see how further elaboration would help. Pls note from our earlier discussions the issue of context & the origin of the word 'arsenocoites'
"Pls note from our earlier discussions the issue of context & the origin of the word 'arsenocoites' "
The origin of the word is generally believed by those on both sides of the debate to be with the apostle Paul himself, who did not define the word, which is why proper context of the passage remains an issue of debate.
"I read, study, think & seek to arrive at conclusions based on reasonable inferences just as you purport to."
Very good, I would urge you to do so as widely... (Cont.)
I HATE WHEN GAYS SAY THE BIBLE SAYS LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR SO IM DOING GODS WILL...ITS SAYS LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR...THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING SEX WITH HIM UNLESS ITS IN THE MARRAIGE DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE!
Chile, if being gay was a gift from god then why did he not add the lube, enema, and hamsters that goes with it. Looks to me that if god would have given you a toy he would have gave you the batteries that goes with it! People need to use commen sense. The back door was not meant for entry! You dont want to change...so you are trying to make the world change!
"People need to use commen sense. The back door was not meant for entry!"
Our Lord made humanity the most adaptable of all of His creations.
"You dont want to change.."
It is those clinging to thier personal disgust and intolerance who don't wish to change. Neither do they wish the world around them to change for fear they themselves may be ostracised like many of those they condemn are now.
@clay56 See that is proof of what I am saying right there! Your assumption that I FEAR the world changing is just that...an assumption and a cop out to make u feel better about what you do if you are gay! HOWEVER, the rectum is not made for sex..well thats FACTUAL. The fact that you advised god made the human body adaptable means you ADMIT that the body was not made for that activity and you are using it incorrectly proving my point that you refuse to change but adapt to your sinful nature!
@clay56 Your MISTAKEN again! I am not angry. I am just seperating the facts from your emotions about homosexuality. "what the human body was primarily designed for DOESN'T mean our Lord designed it only for that purpose." You are decieving yourself. If you want to know what God created something for or what His will is..you need to refer to His Word (bible) and not to the sensation a persons feels during intercourse. This is not how you measure morals!
...Describes the acts of participants in a pagan orgy as Rom. 1:23-25 STRONGLY indicate. Yet if they had been hetero and UNmarried would the acts be ANY less "vile?" Would the recording of the incident be used to condemn all hetero couples, even married ones? The exploitation of the passage simply reflects the tragic double standard between the orientations.
"Then u have 1 Corinthians 6:9."
The parts of this verse believed in reference to homosexuality center... (Cont.)
@clay56 I think that you need to read the passage. This is not a record of incident. This is a lifestyle and mindset that Paul is refering to as REprobation. He is talking about how clear it is that God created man for woman...and how SOME homosexuals have a debased mindset thinking its okay. Then in 28-29 it tells the consequences. Now Jesus himself advised that marraige was suppose to be between male and female...eitherway...homosexuality is sin...and you can change!
@clay56 For your future reference...my all caps does not mean that I am angry. I understand that alot of Pro Gay people Thrive off emotions when they are speaking on this issue. But my caps means that this is something i want you to really pay attention to in reading!
"Why would we move forward on a subject of levitical law when you don't understand the new covenant?"
I think it's true enough that I don't have the same understanding of it as you. I can also understand your're not wanting to move into Mosaic Law since you're having enough problems with your NT case. Such a move would be MUCH too overwhelming under such circumstances.
@clay56 Again...I am not trying to play debate games. And for you to turn what I just said around on me " I can also understand your're not wanting to move into Mosaic Law since you're having enough problems with your NT case." when I have already advised that about YOU. Now, you are claiming that in Romans and Corinthians that Paul is talking about an orgy in order to prove that Jesus loves homosexuality and he approves it. Yet no bible verse approves homosexuality! It only says it is sin!
",,,the bible does speak about men laying with men in the new and Old Testament and how it is sin...."
So you NOW drift into Mosaic Law to bolster the case you're having too much trouble making with the NT alone? The same Law calls a virgin refusing to marry the man impregnating her through an act of rape a sin as well. It's but ONE reason why it's application now is HIGHLY problematic at best. And nowhere in the Gospels did Christ speak to same gender relations. It... (Cont.)
...Rom. 1:23 and 25 indicate. Your hysterical accusation of lying can't change this.
"Now Jesus himself advised that marraige was suppose to be between male and female..."
Saying His advocating marriage for members of one orientation MUST mean He forbade the other is VERY probably presuming too much on His part as well as a VERY possible violation of the Nineth Commandment
"...homosexuality is sin..."
In your view which I respect but do not share. And your accusation of... (Cont.)
"THe only data that you have offered to the quite blunt letter that Paul wrote the the church of Corinth and Rome is that you specualte he is talking about a gay orgy."
Participation in a pagan fertility ritual is the strong INDICATION of Romans 1:23/25. And I couldn't help but notice how you left out v-23 in your quote. Evidently in a haste to reply, you attributed this to Corinth as well, forgetting what I posted about it. It would indeed explain much if you have this... (Cont.)
"God clearly tell us you will be put to death for practicing such behavior in Leviticus 20:13."
Mosaic Law says so, the same law commanding the decapitation of a woman who grabs her husband's attacker by the groin. It's yet another reason against its overall application now.
"God can and will forgive us, but we must acknowledge this as sin and turn from it. But if you refuse, it will place you in Hell!"
Im sure many gay and gay advocating Christians... (Cont.)
Homosexuality is an unnatural act. Even animals don't engage in such perversion. However, the man speaking say's it's a gift from God. He's lucky to still be standing, but God will deal with him soon enough. God clearly tell us you will be put to death for practicing such behavior in Leviticus 20:13. No second chances without repenting! God can and will forgive us, but we must acknowledge this as sin and turn from it. But if you refuse, it will place you in Hell!
"These curses find their way back to the our innocent children, which find themselves drawn toward these propensities. That is God's truth in the matter."
Fascinating, can you cite chapter and verse to show where this "truth" is revealed?
"Even animals don't engage in such perversion."
NOT that I believe humans should take their cues from the animal kingdom, but actually dogs, dolphins and a host of other animals have been known to engage in... (Cont.)
The truth is, homosexuality is brought about through our disobedience to God and his word. Simply put, it brings on curses. So, how is a curse a gift? People have many propensities for immoral behavior, with understand why, but God's word says, they come from our forefathers as far back as 4 and even 10 generations because of unrepented sins. These curses find their way back to the our innocent children, which find themselves drawn toward these propensities. That is God's truth in the matter.
"The truth is, homosexuality is brought about through our disobedience to God and his word."
Interesting, yet how does disobedience bring about the onset of such feelings?
"So, how is a curse a gift?"
Many probably wondered how Christ's brutal death was any sort of "gift" right after it happened. And perhaps if not for homosexuality, this world may be populated with billions more beyond it's capacity to provide. In short our Lord's gifts are often neither immediately nor... (Cont.)
@1LonePuma: P1: God gave His Son, that that he might pay for our sins, if accepted, that's the gift, not a curse. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23
P2 To understand His brutal death, read Isaiah 53.
Seeing we’re born of a sinful nature, our heavenly Father tenderly teaches us how to walk with Him: Galatians 5:16 “So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves.”
Since when has God changed his mind about sin? Here's God's word on the matter: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. It's without question it comes from Satan, not God! Make no mistake, this so called preacher will answer to God for his lies, with Hell to pay!! I don't seen anything in this video but an evil attempt to usurp God word. Consider
eambrausa, you are not God therefore you can not pass judgment for Him. Who is to say being Gay isnt a gift whose to say it is. We are mortals not the Divine and should behave as such. To all Christians out there do not deny Him before man and love Him with all your heart and plant the seed to others but do not let words fly where the seed of hatred can be planted, plant the seed of love. Being gay is ok with me and should be accepted not hated on.
I am so proud to go to All Saints and hear this man speak the words of God every Sunday. He really is the most amazing person you will ever meet. God Bless Ed Bacon.
... And other diverse definitions most likely stem from Paul's not having defined the word he himself most likely originated.
"You can't use a lexicon by skipping around through the definitions and then pick the one that suits you."
Then it's a good thing I've instead been pointing out the numerous definitions to each term discussed, especially "arsenokoites" which too many too arguably misused in their personal condemnation of all same gender relationships.
The parts of this verse generally believed to refer to homosexuality focus on two Greek terms. The first has a number of definitions. The second is believed to be Paul's OWN fusion for the Greek terms "man" and "bed." Since Paul didn't specify the precise definition of the first word or define the second, it can't be certain he was referring to homosexuality at all, MUCH less all kinds of same gender relationships.
@clay56 Sorry but the context according to translators and theolgians will conclude that it indeed means sodomy. Sodomy meant in Biblical times homosexuality. You can't use a lexicon by skipping around through the definitions and then pick the one that suits you. Besides, Romans 1:26-27 will show that someone who practices such is sinning. Besides, the abusers phrase in Corinthians was "arsenokoitēs" which means sodomy. The KJV translates the single greek word above into the whole phrase.
"Besides, the abusers phrase in Corinthians was "arsenokoitēs" which means sodomy."
From Martin Luther's era until the late 1960s the word was defined as "masturbator" by the Catholic Encyclopedia. Harper's Bible Commentary defines it as a prostitute/customer relationship. Neither is any more reflective of all same gender relations than the prostitute who bathed Christ's feet with her tears was of all hetero relationships. But these... (Cont.)
"Romans 1:26-27 will show that someone who practices such is sinning."
The people Paul mentioned in this passage had first abandoned our Lord before participating in a pagan ritual as Rom. 1:23 and 25 strongly indicate. And, had the acts been heterosexual among UNmarried men and women, would the affections be less vile? Would the recording of the incident be used to condemn all heterosexual relations, even husbands and wives? It is the tragic double standard TOO many have of...(Cont.)
I agree that we are to love all including gays. No problem,but this guy needs to brush up on what the Scriptures say.1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. The abusers part means sodomy in greek.Paul disagrees.
"Sorry but the context according to translators and theolgians will conclude that it indeed means sodomy."
Actually the word "sodomy" never appears in the KJV. Specifically, the word "sodomites" is used once in Deuteronomy and four times in 1st and 2nd Kings. The New KJV states that this was in reference to prostitution or acts conduced in pegan pratices. Neither is reflective of all same gender relationships.
"...must you continue to quote my own words back to me? i know full well what i type and send you,..."
Not doing it to annoy. It's just so that others along with yourself know what part of your post Im responding to.
"i must say that your last comment has intriqued me, are you a Christian? ;)"
For many years now, did my comment give you reason to believe otherwise? And if you want to have more in depth conversations, priviate messages are probably the best way to go. :)
I am never more prayerful for the non-Christian, agnostic or the athiest than I am the fellow Christian who second guesses our Lord on matters of ultimate judgement that are His ALONE.
SAID, go forth and multiply", not go forth and enjoy sex just for its physical feeling fortemost, not here you are, adam, eve and some dude to have an unnatural sexual union with! is this guy actually saying anal sex or SODOMY as it is and has been known since, is something HOLY? mmm, i think he needs to actually read his bible. i do not hate any homosexual, i have worked with gay people for yrs in my trade, i do not accept homosexuality, and i think that is the message CHRIST would give.
@mermaidsareppl222 you know very well what the bible says about a homosexual relationship, as a Christian i dont think i am any better than anyone else, i certainly do not hate anyone who is gay... if you want to have a mature discussion about this, thats cool, dont waste your time with anything less than a conversation. I have worked with gay men and women for many years, and have always found a good heart and caring attitude from within the gay community. I am stating what the bible says;)
no, i am not buying this, he is NOT speaking about GOD speaking of sexual immorality. I would seriously, with love, not spite, suggest that the analogy of GOD in Genesis, and what it actually says later, are not connected. i seem to remember something about sin entered this world because WE turned from GOD. plenty of Holy words also specifically relating to sexual immorality. I would further put fwd, that if we could please ourselves with what we wanted from sex, HE would have said that. no HE
@clay56 maybe so, but do you think GOD would just "forget" to mention something? i will not argue with you, but i will engage in good and just conversation, hope ny is good 4 u, get back to me if you want.
"maybe so, but do you think GOD would just "forget" to mention something?"
I state that Christ said nothing about homosexuality as a reminder to those who would perhaps try to use His teachings to mislead others into believing He did.
@clay56 must you continue to quote my own words back to me? i know full well what i type and send you, as i said earlier if you want to have a conversation, cool. if you wish to simply trade comments, please find someone else. i must say that your last comment has intriqued me, are you a Christian? ;)
"must you continue to quote my own words back to me?"
Yes, "he" must, because "cay56" is a master propagandist who has been at this for months, if not years.The primary technique is simple, but generally effective in confusing the simple-minded. Cite scriptures out of context, play semantic games and argue from (supposed) silence.His illogical rants shd serve as a valuable object lesson in the lengths to which some will go to misrepresent and distort. All shd read II Pet 2 & Jude
...Accused of being Satan by the clerical leaders of His time. It's those who make charges of such dark influence that could well be most under it's control.
"Make no mistake, this so called preacher will answer to God for his lies, with Hell to pay!!"
Such statements show how many gay Christian opponents try to condemn viewpoints not in line with their own. And I am never more prayerful for the non Christian, agnostic or athiest than I am the fellow Chistian... (Cont.)
oh lord..dat bible verse has absolutely notin to do wit being gay....dese false prophets who dont undastand d bible...dere is a diff. between readig d bible nd undastanding....God help us...so som1 wud jst get on d pulpit nd say nonsense
Christ Himself was tried and excecuted for heresy by those who could not accept a message that was different in any way from what they themselves taught as true.
"You are son of the devil."
Christ was actually called the devil by the clerical leaders of His time. Such accusations are often the knee jerk response of those who are unable and/or unwilling to accept anything else apart from their own doctrine as true.
@clay56 now! No! You really are not comparing a misguided homosexual to the purity of our Lord God are you?Jesus is God not to be thought as one of us . There is no sin in Jesus .he made the rules and we should just obey our Lord Master and Savior .i fell for all the misguided people such as homosexual . This people are under the power of Satan trapped in his net unable to cope with the truth .and unless they t that this immoral act is a sin : their souls will forever parish in Hell .
"There is no sin in Jesus .he made the rules and we should just obey our Lord Master and Savior."
And He (again) said nothing about homosexuality.
"This people are under the power of Satan trapped in his net unable to cope with the truth"
The spiritual leaders of His time called Christ Himself the devil. Then like now, such accusations are the reflex of those who are confronted with views and beliefs they personally find objectionable.
"The primary technique is simple, but generally effective in confusing the simple-minded. Cite scriptures out of context, play semantic games and argue from (supposed) silence."
Hey Shields!
So can you at least cite examples of your accusations. If not, then I fear there may be some Nineth Commandment entanglements involved.
In any event Im flattered that in all this time you're STILL keeping me in your thoughts! :)
About the excecution of two men in same sex activity. This closely follows Lev. 20:9 calling for the killing of children cursing their parents. It's one of MANY reasons Mosaic Law would be TOO problematic in its application now.
"It's without question it comes from Satan, not God!"
..."Bed." Since Paul didn't specify the definition of the first word or even define the second, it's not certain he was even referring to homosexuality at all, MUCH less all kinds of same gender relationships.
WOW! MEN USING THE PULPIT TO PASS THEIR MESSAGE ON, NONE OF THOSE VERSES SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING GAY, YES GOD SAID EVERYTHING HE HAAD CREATED WAS GOOD, BECAUSE HE CREATED HE AND HER (ADAM AND EVE) AND THEY WERE FOR EACH OTHER ADAM DIDN'T HAVE A MAN COMPANION EVE DIDN'T HAVE A WOMEN COMPANION...BUT WHAT ABOUT THESE VERSES...
Lev. 18:22 , "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them. 1Cor. 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes. this verse calls for death for two men lying together, as does Lev. 20:9 for a child cursing his/her parents. It's just one among many verses making Mosaic Law problematic to say the least in it's modern day application.
"1Cor. 6:9-10..."
The parts of this passage appearing to address same gender relations focus on two Greek terms. One has a number of definitions. The other appears to be Paul's own fusion of the Greek words for "man" and... (Cont.)
Yes the "abomination" verse. Other "abominations" like sowing a field with two crops or wearing clothing of two different fabrics would be considered nonsense by most Christians now.
"The Catholic Church teaches that such acts are always violations of divine and natural law."
I believe this is the same Church that for centuries accepted bribes to absolve people of their sins ahead of time? I think these were called indulgences. I think it was the same Church that falsely taught for nearly two thousand years that Mary Magdalene was the prostitute that washed Christ feet with her tears. As much as I respect all our institutions of worship, it just goes to show how... (Cont.)
While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice.
"While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." "
Which again Paul himself did not define, leaving those in the generations that followed to subjectively define, redefine and debate over the generations that followed.
I believe up until the late 60's the Catholic Church had defined this term as "masturbator." Harper's Bible Commentary defines it as a customer/prostitute relationship. Neither are reflective of all homosexuals or all same gender relationships.
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9–10, All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. But the rejection of this behavior is not an arbitrary prohibition. It, like other moral imperatives, is rooted in natural law—the design that God has built into human nature.
. . . Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them" (Rom. 1:26–28, 32). Elsewhere Paul again warns that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?
He says, "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.
Confirming this fact is the New Testament’s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1, Paul attributes the homosexual desires of some to a refusal to acknowledge and worship God.
"Confirming this fact is the New Testament’s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1,"
Along with heterosexual behavior outside the boundary of marriage which is why Paul probably would not have been any more accepting if the acts conducted in Rom. 1 had been heterosexual among UNmarried partners. And since there is no mention of same gender marriage, it would be overpresumptuous to state the act is condemned in all situations.
While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are. God may issue different ceremonies for use in different times and cultures, but his moral requirements are eternal and are binding on all cultures.
"While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are."
Since none of Mosaic Law falls Biblically under the headings of "moral" or "ceremonial," the terms could be subjectively used by the reader in the defining of any law.
again just COPYING AND PASTING from a CATHOLIC website : Reinterpreting Scripture
To discount this, some homosexual activists have argued that moral imperatives from the Old Testament can be dismissed since there were certain ceremonial requirements at the time—such as not eating pork, or circumcising male babies—that are no longer binding.
I AM NOT JUDGING !!! cutting and pasting from the catholic bible. The very bible this man said if people actually read they would understand that being gay is a gift. When I am able to show you by SIMPLY cutting and pasting from THE CATHOLIC BIBLE that he is making this up to deceive people that want to hear this ( aka have their ears tickled )
For the time will come when they will NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
This verse mentions neither gay nor gay supportive Christians. Since it is so non specific it could easily be exploited by the dishonest in an attempt to condemn any one speaking our Lord's word.
The problem with cathlics wich includes my grandma, grandpa, aunts, uncles, father, mother is that they do not read the bible for themselves they accept what the priest is saying without verifying with the scriptures - even the catholic ones. When the catholic scriptures say : DO NOT BE DECEIVED NO HOMOSEXUAL WILL INHERENT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. This man is tickling your ears and telling people what they want to hear. Wich is exactly what false teachers do
In the new testament in a CATHOLIC bible it says : In the New Testament
1 Corinthians 6:9: "Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexuals nor sodomites ... will inherit the kingdom of God."
The parts appearing to address homosexuality in this verse revolve around two Greek terms. The first has a number of definitions, the second is to believed to be Paul's fusion of the Greek terms for "man" and "bed." Since Paul didn't specify the definition of the first word nor define the second it's not even certain he was referring to homosexuality at all MUCH less all types of same gender relationships.
I am not judging I am copying and pasting scriptures from the catholic bible. The catholic bible has all the verses I mentioned earlier. I was raised catholic btw and I read my bible at cathlic church each sunday and this guy is LYING plain and simple
Don't judge people 777warrior. Luke 3:27 judge not and you will not be judged. Condemn not and you will not be condemned. Just so you know every book in the bible is not true, not nearly. The catholics chose which books would be in the bible and which would not. Its impossible for the bible to all be true and that's face. The catholic bible has a lot more books than your bible. Since they are the ones who put ours together why don't u go read it?
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
Going back a few verses we see that Rom.1:23 and 25 strongly suggest the people mentioned in the passage abandoned our Lord to participate in a pagan ritual. But would the acts be any less "shameful" or "vile" had they been heterosexual among UNmarried men and women? Would the recording of the incident be exploited to condemn all heterosexual relations, even husbands and wives? It is the tragic double standard TOO many have of the different orientations.
"Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." "
It also says the same thing about planting different crops in the same field and making clothing from two different fabrics. And while Lev. 20:13 appears to call for death for men lying together, it calles for the same thing in the case of a child cursing his/her parents in Lev. 20:9. The penalty for either would be considered morally uphorrid by most now.
I have no problem with homosexual people infact my sister is a lesbian and I love her still although I disagree with her way of life I respect her enough to allow her to live it. And she should respect me enough not to try and change my beliefs. And I belive what the bible says" NO homosexual will inherent the kingdom " c'mon it even says DO NOT BE DECEIVED !!!! Wich is EXACTLY what this preacher is doing. Again no problem with homosexuals personally but THIS IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
"And I belive what the bible says" NO homosexual will inherent the kingdom " "
The KJV uses the word "effiminate" and the term "abusers of themselves with mankind." These could be in reference to people of ANY orientation. The word "homosexual" itself appeared in NO Bible prior to 1946 with its printing in the "Revised Standard Version."
This preacher is what the bible refers to as a wolf in sheep's clothing. He is not a man of the true God Yahweh who revelas himself in his word but rather a false teacher who is spreading lies. If HE would actually read the bible he would have read 1 Corinthisnas 6:9 wich says : Do you not know that the wicked will NOT inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL
Also, I'm sure all of you have lied to protect or to not hurt a loved one, even though that is one of the ten commandments your heart tells you its ok because words mean nothing. Its not about words, its about spirit.
Hmm guys I'm pretty sure the bible says Luke 6:37 judge not and you will not be judged, condemn not and you will not be condemned. So to all of you judgeing all the amazing gay people of the world and condemning them, that is the only way u can judge and condemn yourself.
Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13).
Being gay is a gift from God is a lie. The word says turn from your evil ways and mentions men burning in lust after their own kind as something God will judge them for. The word also talks of what sins people commit on Earth that will keep people out of the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven. However, we are too establish our little Kingdom of Heaven on Earth in the meantime where we work on our character flaws--in other words, you want to be Biblically correct not politically correct.
Christians love you. Christians love you so much they have to love you to death. They love you with knives, guns, bombs and forcing you to believe in their religion. Christians love you so much they're allowed to be hypocrites. They love you despite the fact their entire religion is stolen and deconstructed from every other religion on the planet. Christians love you. The billions they've killed and prosecuted over the centuries prove it =)
If I see a christian agree with "being gay is a gift from god"I obviously see that christian obviously doesn't read their bible since apparently they forgot that little story of sodom and gammorah..
"If I see a christian agree with "being gay is a gift from god"I obviously see that christian obviously doesn't read their bible since apparently they forgot that little story of sodom and gammorah."
The story of Sodom revolves around the Hebrew word for "know" (yada) with its ELEVEN definitions. Yep, a SINGLE multitermed word is being exploited to condemn an entire segment of the population..
You are taking scripture out of context. You are misleading your flock, Rector. God teaches His children to take a brother or sister aside, a brother in Christ and tell them of their sin, if one does not adhere, then to take a brother, if that doesn't work then one is to be excommunicated for a period of time. You sir, are treading in dangerous waters. I Peter 3:10-12, 4:10-11, Rev. 21:27
You are misguiding people. God loves the gay person and the straight, but hates the sinful lifestyle.
People its not culture. God loves you gay or not but he hates our actions. Why would God make you something different than his original? (Adam and Eve) its all choice but CULTURE ,take gay as such a strong sin. If I kill someone and and man sleeps with a man wo committed the bigger sin? No one we are bot accountable. Its a sin but you have the choice to repent. I have no problem with gays they are my brothers n sisters in Christ but we all have sins we need to take care of.
It's not culture who is against gay behavior, it is God! I was gay for 20 years. It was the time of indescribable misery and despair. Then I received the power to change. Today I am healthy and totally happy heterosexual. If you are in the similar situation, you can visit ilivestraight website to help you on your way to become straight again. Also check "get off homosexuality-become straight" video on you tube.
@sinisbal bullcrap. Being gay is not a choice. Why would ANYONE choose to be something that is frowned upon. We are all made in God's image....not physically but spiritually. King David "loved the company of other men" AKA GAY. The Bible is Gods word BUT it was written my man in a time when homosexuality was more frowned upon then it is today. I am a gay Christian. I know that God made me gay for a reason and that NO ONE OTHER than God can judge me for my actions on His earth.
@sinisbal nah it's culture. you sound like you need some serious help, please seek counsel as soon as possible before you end up hurting yourself or others. may God bless you and your judgmental ways and help guide you from satan.
.. It is because of FALSE Priests such as this , that our Nation will face condemnation .. So when (not if) it happens , you have people such as him to thank for it ... That day is CLOSE at hand and I can assure you there shall be a special judgment for the likes of these ...
@chercherchercher -- Being a Raging Homosexual will NOT get YOU into the kingdom of Heaven , no matter how much you TWIST the word of God ... Get over It and get better , LOL !!!
GOOD FOR YOU ED!!!!!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!! EQUALITY FOR ALL!!!! i'm GAY and it's MY gift from God!!! THANK YOU GOD FOR MAKING ME GAY AND BEAUTIFUL INSIDE AND OUT!! I pray for all the small minded, gay hating christians who are ONLY hating themselves from within. SAD PEOPLE :) XOXOXOXO
"Why not address the first part that you quoted from mrOrigins1."
Because I found the second part more relevant. MrORIGINS1 implied that all humans are born either male or female. I simply responded that this assertion is not true in all cases.
Part 2
...As.you can.You may also wish to go back over what you studied in the past. Those who do so, more often than not, come away from the experience with a different impression of the material the second time around. :)
clay56 1 day ago
Explain the references in the Bible that prohibit homosexuality. Why did God flood the earth in the time of Noah?
michaelbentley93 2 days ago
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I would strongly recommend to all the debate here on youtube Dr. Michael Brown and Harry Knox... Dr. Brown completely demolishes any basis for a bible-based apologetic of homosexual & unnatural affection behavior. It's so hard to imagine how these matters can be made clearer where God stands when the Apostle Paul clearly states: DO NOT BE DECEIVED (one might infer that he is clearly stating that there are those who WILL intentionally try to therefore DECEIVE you)
shieldsff 3 days ago
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Sure he is...... because you see "cay56" is a master propagandist who has been at this for months, if not years.The primary technique is simple, but generally effective in confusing the simple-minded. Cite scriptures out of context, play semantic games and argue from (supposed) silence.His illogical rants shd serve as a valuable object lesson in the lengths to which some will go to misrepresent and distort. All shd read II Pet 2 & Jude
shieldsff 3 days ago
Part 2
... Indeed you have in your haste judged them falsely on His behalf.
Oh, did you ever find my postings regarding 1 Corinthians 6:9?
clay56 1 week ago
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"But no where in the bible did it say bein a gay is a gift from GOD!!!"
Many probably didn't see Christ's brutal death as any sort of "gift" when it happened since our Lord's plan is most often neither nor immediately known.
" it do speak bad about the sodemites though:)"
Yep, it uses the term in Deuteronomy and 1-2 Kings in reference to prostitutes. This reflects all homosexuals as well as the prostitute who bathed Christ's feet with hear tears did all heterosexuals.
clay56 1 week ago
He said love your neighbor...and dont judge unless thy be judge. But no where in the bible did it say bein a gay is a gift from GOD!!! it do speak bad about the sodemites though:)
maddman702 1 week ago
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Catholics... They change what the REAL Bible says... Check this out... This is what it says in the REAL HOLY BIBLE
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
thebrawlgamerxD 1 week ago
Catholics... They change what the REAL Bible says... Check this out... This is what it says in the REAL HOLY BIBLE
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
thebrawlgamerxD 1 week ago
Why don't you read your bible properly?
TheEdduff 1 week ago
No, it's a gift from satan.
RasmusDog 1 week ago
"No, it's a gift from satan."
Coincidently something very much like this was said about Christ by the clerical leaders of His day.
clay56 1 week ago
Part 2
...Protestants just as they probably were by the Pharisees to condemn the first Christians, much to the discredit and disgrace of both.
"...you refuse to even CONSIDER the option of renewing your mind through the WOrd of God!"
Once more...
Your view... His Word... NOT neccessarily or entirely one and the same.
"...I am not trying to play debate games."
You're not even actually trying to debate. You'd have to read the other person's ENTIRE posts to do so. You obviously... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
@clay56 Dude, if you want to be gay...go for it! You are the only one that has to stand in front of Jesus on judgement day. You dont have to prove to me that homosexuality is NOT a sin! Thats something you have to prove to God!
superman4449 1 week ago
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"Dude, if you want to be gay...go for it!"
Looks like you're making assumptions again since there are heteros that are advocates for gay Christians.
"You dont have to prove to me that homosexuality is NOT a sin!"
Haven't been trying to, just showing you why your evidence is not concrete proof of it being sin in all stiuations. And Im sure, when your own time comes, that our Lord will hear the prayers of gay Christians and their advocates for your forgiveness if... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
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"Rev. John Rankin: Same-Sex Marriage, Smith College and an Evangelical Minister " was an awesome youtube video!!!!
superman4449 1 week ago
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]
No reference to orgy or some Greek ritual. Its pretty cut and dry.
11 And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Verse 11 advises that you can change and so did people before you!
superman4449 1 week ago
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"...my all caps does not mean that I am angry."
I then applaud your convincing impression of someone responding to the dissent of his view with what TRULY appeared to be shock and near hysterical outrage.
"But my caps means that this is something i want you to really pay attention to in reading!"
You may want to take your own advice and re read my posting on 1 Cor. 6:9 to save yourself the trouble of all that unneccessary quoting next time.
clay56 1 week ago
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"...there is NO REFERENCE in the bible to this GAY CHRISTIAN apostacy that you are trying to introduce."
Stating that gay Christians are a contridiction in terms is based more in personal presumption than fact since the Bible speaks to homosexuality almost entirely in terms of pegan ritual and prostitution. It doesn't address all types of same gender relationships. And Im sure terms like "apostacy" and "heresey" were used by the Roman Catholics to condemn the first... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Talks about how siunce you refuse to adhere to the law, God gave you up to pagnism and sinful practices...as well as a reprobated mindset. This is a cursed mindset that no matter what you will never see your sin.
superman4449 1 week ago
"Talks about how siunce you refuse to adhere to the law, God gave you up to pagnism and sinful practices..."
Paul says this in Romans about the people who FIRST abandoned our Lord in favor of such practices. This doesn't describe gay Christians, who would deplore such acts even as they themselves are indiscriminately, mistakenly grouped in with the pegan ritual participants by those exploiting Rom. 1 in their effort to condemn them.
clay56 1 week ago
@clay56 #1 unlike the people that practice homosexulality in the bible and CHANGED per 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (the people that once were) there is NO REFERENCE in the bible to this GAY CHRISTIAN apostacy that you are trying to introduce. It is reblellion because you refuse to even CONSIDER the option of renewing your mind through the WOrd of God!
superman4449 1 week ago
Part 3
...HAVEN'T done this simple thing since you've now twice stated I was attributing 1 Cor. 6:9 to pegan ritual when I stated an entirely different problem you and many other gay Christian opponents have with it, even after I TWICE pointed our your mistake the first time. This make's it pretty obvious your responding in haste and impulse, resulting in some rather foolish postings. So then, why don't you try once more to find my posts on the passage THEN get back to me.
clay56 1 week ago
@clay56 There is no reference in the bible of Gay Christians. That is a term that you and your pro gays have MADE UP! However, the bible does speak about men laying with men in the new and Old Testament and how it is sin. So u can assume that it is not talking about you because you call yourself a Christian, but Jesus says that if you love him you will keep His commandments and not twist it with apostasy so it can fit into your current psychological state. Especially when Paul is very specific,
superman4449 1 week ago
Part 2
...Sadly does not keep gay Christian opponents from misusing His teachings to make it appear as if He did, resulting in problems regarding the Nineth Commandment which He upheld in Matt. 19:18. And many of those who use words like "twist," "distort" and "apostacy" to condemn dissenting views have tragically sealed their hearts and minds off to ANY possibility of their view and our Lord's will being anything OTHER than one and the same.
clay56 1 week ago
exactly
shieldsff 3 days ago
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
There is NO REFERENCE TO A GAY ORGY IN THIS PASSAGE. Paul is VERY specific!
superman4449 1 week ago
Part 4
...Disgust and what might very well be a generally misunderstood view of scripture to fuel their OWN agenda.
clay56 2 weeks ago
@clay56 You are the only one that is confused here. You open any bible any where in the country and you will see the DIRECT reference to homosexuality. The fact that you are trying to twist it to justify homosexuality when it is CLEARLY advised from Leviticu to revelations as sin is just desperate! I have no winnings and trying to get you to change...no motive...what you do does not effect me! However, I care enough about people to tell them the truth!
superman4449 1 week ago
Part 2
...Would both the male reproductive and waste removal systems make up part of the same organ?
"...you refuse to change but adapt to your sinful nature!"
Just try to stay calm.
Gay Christians and gay welcoming churches would be FAR fewer in number without the support of gay friendly Christians. And "sinful" is part of your view, not neccessarily our Lord's will. You therefore presume too much on my part as well as, it would seem, His.
clay56 2 weeks ago
@clay56 Its not just my view. It is in the bible in Leviticus...however, we are under a new covenant...so we have Romans 1:18-32 were Paul is describing your current mindset about homosexuality. Then u have 1 Corinthians 6:9. Not only that but there are people that were delivered from homosexuality and changed in 1 Cortinthians 6:9-11 (the people that "once were"). In all of these Pro Gay agendas, tolerance, and Pro Gay propaganda is just to detour the option to change...not 2straight but holy!
superman4449 2 weeks ago
Part 3
...Around two Greek terms. The first has a number of definitions. The second is agreed to be Paul's OWN fusion of the terms for "man" and "bed" which many argue is in reference to homosexuality. Yet since Paul didn't specify the definition of the first word or even define the second, it's uncertain he was referring to homosexuality at all, MUCH less all types of same gender relationships. Sadly this is ignored by gay TOO many Christian opponents who use fear... (Cont.)
clay56 2 weeks ago
@clay56 THAT IS A LIE THAT ONLY PRO GAYS SPEAK OF! IF you go to ANY BIBLE and any respected theological interpretation from King James, Amplified, NIV, New American Standard.....PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY. And this orgy myth that YOU are talking about is NEVER mentioned in any of the bibles WRITINGS! Period! Geesh, are you all that desperate???
superman4449 1 week ago
Part 3
...Twisting doesn't change the fact that your personal view and our Lord's will are neither neccessarily nor entirely one and the same as you'd evidently have others believe. And I don't "justify homosexuality" as you further accuse. I simply let gay Christian opponents know the problem(s) with their personal interpetations and why they DON'T hold the secure Biblical ground many like to think they do. You mentioned Leviticus, we can talk about that next if you want.
clay56 1 week ago
@clay56 THe only data that you have offered to the quite blunt letter that Paul wrote the the church of Corinth and Rome is that you specualte he is talking about a gay orgy. However, that is just speculation and apastacy because you fear CHANGE! Why would we move forward on a subject of levitical law when you dont understand the new covenant? You are not ready to move on for you have not dealt with the facts of the current subject matter!
superman4449 1 week ago
you are correctbut don't allow 'clay' to mislead. It's true that the word 'homosexuality' is a rather recent term, but the BEHAVIOR RELATED TO THE TERM is there (man lying with man/woman w/woman). Do not be mislead by the argument that the term Apostle Paul uses 'means' something else or has multiple uses.Yes, the world applied to various forms of sexual immorality but Paul meant homosexuality
ALSO THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT WE ARE ALL GOOD. It goes on to explain that we are ALL FALLEN CREATURES
shieldsff 3 days ago
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clay56 3 days ago
"Yes, the world applied to various forms of sexual immorality but Paul meant homosexuality"
If you're referring to 1 Cor. 6:9, how then do you "know" for certain what Paul meant by one term with a number of meanings and another believed to be his OWN fusion of two words he did not even define?
clay56 2 days ago
I read, study, think & seek to arrive at conclusions based on reasonable inferences just as you purport to . Traditionalists do not see any of this in isolation, however, since received moral wisdom & what has proven 'good' for society as a whole is also of great value.As for how the proper of meaning of scripture on this matter is derived I really can't see how further elaboration would help. Pls note from our earlier discussions the issue of context & the origin of the word 'arsenocoites'
shieldsff 1 day ago
I read, study, think & seek to arrive at conclusions based on reasonable inferences just as you purport to . Traditionalists do not see any of this in isolation, however, since received moral wisdom & what has proven 'good' for society as a whole is also of great value.As for how the proper of meaning of scripture on this matter is derived I really can't see how further elaboration would help. Pls note from our earlier discussions the issue of context & the origin of the word 'arsenocoites'
shieldsff 1 day ago
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"Pls note from our earlier discussions the issue of context & the origin of the word 'arsenocoites' "
The origin of the word is generally believed by those on both sides of the debate to be with the apostle Paul himself, who did not define the word, which is why proper context of the passage remains an issue of debate.
"I read, study, think & seek to arrive at conclusions based on reasonable inferences just as you purport to."
Very good, I would urge you to do so as widely... (Cont.)
clay56 1 day ago
I HATE WHEN GAYS SAY THE BIBLE SAYS LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR SO IM DOING GODS WILL...ITS SAYS LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR...THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE HAVING SEX WITH HIM UNLESS ITS IN THE MARRAIGE DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE!
superman4449 2 weeks ago
Chile, if being gay was a gift from god then why did he not add the lube, enema, and hamsters that goes with it. Looks to me that if god would have given you a toy he would have gave you the batteries that goes with it! People need to use commen sense. The back door was not meant for entry! You dont want to change...so you are trying to make the world change!
superman4449 2 weeks ago
"People need to use commen sense. The back door was not meant for entry!"
Our Lord made humanity the most adaptable of all of His creations.
"You dont want to change.."
It is those clinging to thier personal disgust and intolerance who don't wish to change. Neither do they wish the world around them to change for fear they themselves may be ostracised like many of those they condemn are now.
clay56 2 weeks ago
@clay56 See that is proof of what I am saying right there! Your assumption that I FEAR the world changing is just that...an assumption and a cop out to make u feel better about what you do if you are gay! HOWEVER, the rectum is not made for sex..well thats FACTUAL. The fact that you advised god made the human body adaptable means you ADMIT that the body was not made for that activity and you are using it incorrectly proving my point that you refuse to change but adapt to your sinful nature!
superman4449 2 weeks ago
"See that is proof of what I am saying right there! Your assumption that I FEAR the world changing is just that...an assumption and a cop out..."
Wasn't trying to make you angry, though anger often comes from fear.
"The fact that you advised god made the human body adaptable means you ADMIT that the body was not made for that activity..."
Hardly, what the human body was primarily designed for DOESN'T mean our Lord designed it only for that purpose. Otherwise, why ... (Cont.)
clay56 2 weeks ago
@clay56 Your MISTAKEN again! I am not angry. I am just seperating the facts from your emotions about homosexuality. "what the human body was primarily designed for DOESN'T mean our Lord designed it only for that purpose." You are decieving yourself. If you want to know what God created something for or what His will is..you need to refer to His Word (bible) and not to the sensation a persons feels during intercourse. This is not how you measure morals!
superman4449 2 weeks ago
Part 2
...Describes the acts of participants in a pagan orgy as Rom. 1:23-25 STRONGLY indicate. Yet if they had been hetero and UNmarried would the acts be ANY less "vile?" Would the recording of the incident be used to condemn all hetero couples, even married ones? The exploitation of the passage simply reflects the tragic double standard between the orientations.
"Then u have 1 Corinthians 6:9."
The parts of this verse believed in reference to homosexuality center... (Cont.)
clay56 2 weeks ago
@clay56 I think that you need to read the passage. This is not a record of incident. This is a lifestyle and mindset that Paul is refering to as REprobation. He is talking about how clear it is that God created man for woman...and how SOME homosexuals have a debased mindset thinking its okay. Then in 28-29 it tells the consequences. Now Jesus himself advised that marraige was suppose to be between male and female...eitherway...homosexuality is sin...and you can change!
superman4449 1 week ago
"THAT IS A LIE THAT ONLY PRO GAYS SPEAK OF!"
You're sure you're not just a tiny bit angry?
"And this orgy myth that YOU are talking about is NEVER mentioned in any of the bibles WRITINGS!"
Rom. 1:23 and 25 STRONGLY indicate otherwise.
"This is not a record of incident. This is a lifestyle and mindset that Paul is refering to as REprobation."
You left out the part in which the individuals FIRST abondoned Christ before conducting themselves in in places of pegan worship as... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
@clay56 For your future reference...my all caps does not mean that I am angry. I understand that alot of Pro Gay people Thrive off emotions when they are speaking on this issue. But my caps means that this is something i want you to really pay attention to in reading!
superman4449 1 week ago
Part 2
.. Same approach to scripture.
"Why would we move forward on a subject of levitical law when you don't understand the new covenant?"
I think it's true enough that I don't have the same understanding of it as you. I can also understand your're not wanting to move into Mosaic Law since you're having enough problems with your NT case. Such a move would be MUCH too overwhelming under such circumstances.
clay56 1 week ago
@clay56 Again...I am not trying to play debate games. And for you to turn what I just said around on me " I can also understand your're not wanting to move into Mosaic Law since you're having enough problems with your NT case." when I have already advised that about YOU. Now, you are claiming that in Romans and Corinthians that Paul is talking about an orgy in order to prove that Jesus loves homosexuality and he approves it. Yet no bible verse approves homosexuality! It only says it is sin!
superman4449 1 week ago
",,,the bible does speak about men laying with men in the new and Old Testament and how it is sin...."
So you NOW drift into Mosaic Law to bolster the case you're having too much trouble making with the NT alone? The same Law calls a virgin refusing to marry the man impregnating her through an act of rape a sin as well. It's but ONE reason why it's application now is HIGHLY problematic at best. And nowhere in the Gospels did Christ speak to same gender relations. It... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
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"Your MISTAKEN again! I am not angry."
Ooookay, if you're sure.
"I am just seperating the facts from your emotions about homosexuality."
What you call "facts" in your previous postings appear all TOO much like personal disgust presented as though it were our Lord's will.
"If you want to know what God created something for or what His will is..you need to refer to His Word (bible)..."
Im glad you've at least begun to do so
"...so we have Romans 1:18-32."
In which Paul... (Cont.)
clay56 2 weeks ago
...Rom. 1:23 and 25 indicate. Your hysterical accusation of lying can't change this.
"Now Jesus himself advised that marraige was suppose to be between male and female..."
Saying His advocating marriage for members of one orientation MUST mean He forbade the other is VERY probably presuming too much on His part as well as a VERY possible violation of the Nineth Commandment
"...homosexuality is sin..."
In your view which I respect but do not share. And your accusation of... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
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"THe only data that you have offered to the quite blunt letter that Paul wrote the the church of Corinth and Rome is that you specualte he is talking about a gay orgy."
Participation in a pagan fertility ritual is the strong INDICATION of Romans 1:23/25. And I couldn't help but notice how you left out v-23 in your quote. Evidently in a haste to reply, you attributed this to Corinth as well, forgetting what I posted about it. It would indeed explain much if you have this... (Cont.)
clay56 1 week ago
Part 4
See parts 1 - 3 below
...Will be praying for the forgiveness of those making such overly judgemental statements.
clay56 3 weeks ago
Part 3
...Same gender activity.
"God clearly tell us you will be put to death for practicing such behavior in Leviticus 20:13."
Mosaic Law says so, the same law commanding the decapitation of a woman who grabs her husband's attacker by the groin. It's yet another reason against its overall application now.
"God can and will forgive us, but we must acknowledge this as sin and turn from it. But if you refuse, it will place you in Hell!"
Im sure many gay and gay advocating Christians... (Cont.)
clay56 3 weeks ago
Homosexuality is an unnatural act. Even animals don't engage in such perversion. However, the man speaking say's it's a gift from God. He's lucky to still be standing, but God will deal with him soon enough. God clearly tell us you will be put to death for practicing such behavior in Leviticus 20:13. No second chances without repenting! God can and will forgive us, but we must acknowledge this as sin and turn from it. But if you refuse, it will place you in Hell!
1LonePuma 3 weeks ago
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Part 2
...Widely recognized.
"These curses find their way back to the our innocent children, which find themselves drawn toward these propensities. That is God's truth in the matter."
Fascinating, can you cite chapter and verse to show where this "truth" is revealed?
"Even animals don't engage in such perversion."
NOT that I believe humans should take their cues from the animal kingdom, but actually dogs, dolphins and a host of other animals have been known to engage in... (Cont.)
clay56 3 weeks ago
The truth is, homosexuality is brought about through our disobedience to God and his word. Simply put, it brings on curses. So, how is a curse a gift? People have many propensities for immoral behavior, with understand why, but God's word says, they come from our forefathers as far back as 4 and even 10 generations because of unrepented sins. These curses find their way back to the our innocent children, which find themselves drawn toward these propensities. That is God's truth in the matter.
1LonePuma 3 weeks ago
"The truth is, homosexuality is brought about through our disobedience to God and his word."
Interesting, yet how does disobedience bring about the onset of such feelings?
"So, how is a curse a gift?"
Many probably wondered how Christ's brutal death was any sort of "gift" right after it happened. And perhaps if not for homosexuality, this world may be populated with billions more beyond it's capacity to provide. In short our Lord's gifts are often neither immediately nor... (Cont.)
clay56 3 weeks ago
@1LonePuma: P1: God gave His Son, that that he might pay for our sins, if accepted, that's the gift, not a curse. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23
P2 To understand His brutal death, read Isaiah 53.
Seeing we’re born of a sinful nature, our heavenly Father tenderly teaches us how to walk with Him: Galatians 5:16 “So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves.”
1LonePuma 3 weeks ago
Since when has God changed his mind about sin? Here's God's word on the matter: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. It's without question it comes from Satan, not God! Make no mistake, this so called preacher will answer to God for his lies, with Hell to pay!! I don't seen anything in this video but an evil attempt to usurp God word. Consider
1LonePuma 3 weeks ago
eambrausa, you are not God therefore you can not pass judgment for Him. Who is to say being Gay isnt a gift whose to say it is. We are mortals not the Divine and should behave as such. To all Christians out there do not deny Him before man and love Him with all your heart and plant the seed to others but do not let words fly where the seed of hatred can be planted, plant the seed of love. Being gay is ok with me and should be accepted not hated on.
undead6621 1 month ago
To all the christians here who want to go by law and scripture, why is it that most of them conveniently ignore the levitican laws and punishments?
MrBoxerbound 1 month ago
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"There are a lot of deceived people, some even call themselves Christians and they preach in favor of sin,..."
And there are those who falsely accuse others of sin in violation of the Nineth Commandment. Such are in need of prayer for forgiveness.
clay56 1 month ago
I am so proud to go to All Saints and hear this man speak the words of God every Sunday. He really is the most amazing person you will ever meet. God Bless Ed Bacon.
ceshonn 1 month ago
Part 3
... And other diverse definitions most likely stem from Paul's not having defined the word he himself most likely originated.
"You can't use a lexicon by skipping around through the definitions and then pick the one that suits you."
Then it's a good thing I've instead been pointing out the numerous definitions to each term discussed, especially "arsenokoites" which too many too arguably misused in their personal condemnation of all same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
"1Co 6:9"
The parts of this verse generally believed to refer to homosexuality focus on two Greek terms. The first has a number of definitions. The second is believed to be Paul's OWN fusion for the Greek terms "man" and "bed." Since Paul didn't specify the precise definition of the first word or define the second, it can't be certain he was referring to homosexuality at all, MUCH less all kinds of same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
@clay56 Sorry but the context according to translators and theolgians will conclude that it indeed means sodomy. Sodomy meant in Biblical times homosexuality. You can't use a lexicon by skipping around through the definitions and then pick the one that suits you. Besides, Romans 1:26-27 will show that someone who practices such is sinning. Besides, the abusers phrase in Corinthians was "arsenokoitēs" which means sodomy. The KJV translates the single greek word above into the whole phrase.
j4270108 2 months ago
Part 2
...The different orientations.
"Besides, the abusers phrase in Corinthians was "arsenokoitēs" which means sodomy."
From Martin Luther's era until the late 1960s the word was defined as "masturbator" by the Catholic Encyclopedia. Harper's Bible Commentary defines it as a prostitute/customer relationship. Neither is any more reflective of all same gender relations than the prostitute who bathed Christ's feet with her tears was of all hetero relationships. But these... (Cont.)
clay56 2 months ago
"Romans 1:26-27 will show that someone who practices such is sinning."
The people Paul mentioned in this passage had first abandoned our Lord before participating in a pagan ritual as Rom. 1:23 and 25 strongly indicate. And, had the acts been heterosexual among UNmarried men and women, would the affections be less vile? Would the recording of the incident be used to condemn all heterosexual relations, even husbands and wives? It is the tragic double standard TOO many have of...(Cont.)
clay56 2 months ago
I agree that we are to love all including gays. No problem,but this guy needs to brush up on what the Scriptures say.1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. The abusers part means sodomy in greek.Paul disagrees.
j4270108 2 months ago
"Sorry but the context according to translators and theolgians will conclude that it indeed means sodomy."
Actually the word "sodomy" never appears in the KJV. Specifically, the word "sodomites" is used once in Deuteronomy and four times in 1st and 2nd Kings. The New KJV states that this was in reference to prostitution or acts conduced in pegan pratices. Neither is reflective of all same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
"...must you continue to quote my own words back to me? i know full well what i type and send you,..."
Not doing it to annoy. It's just so that others along with yourself know what part of your post Im responding to.
"i must say that your last comment has intriqued me, are you a Christian? ;)"
For many years now, did my comment give you reason to believe otherwise? And if you want to have more in depth conversations, priviate messages are probably the best way to go. :)
clay56 2 months ago
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"...their souls will forever parish in Hell."
I am never more prayerful for the non-Christian, agnostic or the athiest than I am the fellow Christian who second guesses our Lord on matters of ultimate judgement that are His ALONE.
clay56 2 months ago
SAID, go forth and multiply", not go forth and enjoy sex just for its physical feeling fortemost, not here you are, adam, eve and some dude to have an unnatural sexual union with! is this guy actually saying anal sex or SODOMY as it is and has been known since, is something HOLY? mmm, i think he needs to actually read his bible. i do not hate any homosexual, i have worked with gay people for yrs in my trade, i do not accept homosexuality, and i think that is the message CHRIST would give.
JESUS4LIFE50 2 months ago
@JESUS4LIFE50 really? do you know that for certain? i mean its not like it says in the bible to "love thy neighbor" or anything
oh wait...
mermaidsareppl222 1 month ago
@mermaidsareppl222 you know very well what the bible says about a homosexual relationship, as a Christian i dont think i am any better than anyone else, i certainly do not hate anyone who is gay... if you want to have a mature discussion about this, thats cool, dont waste your time with anything less than a conversation. I have worked with gay men and women for many years, and have always found a good heart and caring attitude from within the gay community. I am stating what the bible says;)
JESUS4LIFE50 1 month ago
no, i am not buying this, he is NOT speaking about GOD speaking of sexual immorality. I would seriously, with love, not spite, suggest that the analogy of GOD in Genesis, and what it actually says later, are not connected. i seem to remember something about sin entered this world because WE turned from GOD. plenty of Holy words also specifically relating to sexual immorality. I would further put fwd, that if we could please ourselves with what we wanted from sex, HE would have said that. no HE
JESUS4LIFE50 2 months ago
"HE SAID, go forth and multiply","
And now, OVER six billion of His children occupy His planet, in short, mission accomplished.
"i do not accept homosexuality, and i think that is the message CHRIST would give."
This is not for certain since Christ said nothing about same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
@clay56 maybe so, but do you think GOD would just "forget" to mention something? i will not argue with you, but i will engage in good and just conversation, hope ny is good 4 u, get back to me if you want.
JESUS4LIFE50 2 months ago
"maybe so, but do you think GOD would just "forget" to mention something?"
I state that Christ said nothing about homosexuality as a reminder to those who would perhaps try to use His teachings to mislead others into believing He did.
clay56 2 months ago
@clay56 must you continue to quote my own words back to me? i know full well what i type and send you, as i said earlier if you want to have a conversation, cool. if you wish to simply trade comments, please find someone else. i must say that your last comment has intriqued me, are you a Christian? ;)
JESUS4LIFE50 2 months ago
"must you continue to quote my own words back to me?"
Yes, "he" must, because "cay56" is a master propagandist who has been at this for months, if not years.The primary technique is simple, but generally effective in confusing the simple-minded. Cite scriptures out of context, play semantic games and argue from (supposed) silence.His illogical rants shd serve as a valuable object lesson in the lengths to which some will go to misrepresent and distort. All shd read II Pet 2 & Jude
shieldsff 3 weeks ago
THE BIBLE IS A CONTRADICTING PIECE OF WORK. THATS WHY I STAY AWAY FROM IT. ITS NOT HOLY ITS TAINTED
marcusrouse 2 months ago
@marcusrouse that may well prove to be the worst decision you will ever make. i hope you can work out your own salvation with HIM. peace ;)
JESUS4LIFE50 2 months ago
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shieldsff 3 weeks ago
Part 2
...Accused of being Satan by the clerical leaders of His time. It's those who make charges of such dark influence that could well be most under it's control.
"Make no mistake, this so called preacher will answer to God for his lies, with Hell to pay!!"
Such statements show how many gay Christian opponents try to condemn viewpoints not in line with their own. And I am never more prayerful for the non Christian, agnostic or athiest than I am the fellow Chistian... (Cont.)
clay56 3 weeks ago
You are son of the devil.
ADONAY315 2 months ago
oh lord..dat bible verse has absolutely notin to do wit being gay....dese false prophets who dont undastand d bible...dere is a diff. between readig d bible nd undastanding....God help us...so som1 wud jst get on d pulpit nd say nonsense
sunburstedable 2 months ago
"This man is a Heratic."
Christ Himself was tried and excecuted for heresy by those who could not accept a message that was different in any way from what they themselves taught as true.
"You are son of the devil."
Christ was actually called the devil by the clerical leaders of His time. Such accusations are often the knee jerk response of those who are unable and/or unwilling to accept anything else apart from their own doctrine as true.
clay56 2 months ago
@clay56 now! No! You really are not comparing a misguided homosexual to the purity of our Lord God are you?Jesus is God not to be thought as one of us . There is no sin in Jesus .he made the rules and we should just obey our Lord Master and Savior .i fell for all the misguided people such as homosexual . This people are under the power of Satan trapped in his net unable to cope with the truth .and unless they t that this immoral act is a sin : their souls will forever parish in Hell .
MsRosa58 2 months ago
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clay56 2 months ago
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"There is no sin in Jesus .he made the rules and we should just obey our Lord Master and Savior."
And He (again) said nothing about homosexuality.
"This people are under the power of Satan trapped in his net unable to cope with the truth"
The spiritual leaders of His time called Christ Himself the devil. Then like now, such accusations are the reflex of those who are confronted with views and beliefs they personally find objectionable.
clay56 2 months ago
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shieldsff 3 weeks ago
"The primary technique is simple, but generally effective in confusing the simple-minded. Cite scriptures out of context, play semantic games and argue from (supposed) silence."
Hey Shields!
So can you at least cite examples of your accusations. If not, then I fear there may be some Nineth Commandment entanglements involved.
In any event Im flattered that in all this time you're STILL keeping me in your thoughts! :)
clay56 3 weeks ago
Part 3
...Who second guesses our Lord on matters of ultimate judgement that are His ALONE.
clay56 3 weeks ago
"Since when has God changed his mind about sin?"
For many, it isn't wheather or not He changed his mind, but IF something is "sin" in all circumstances.
"...Leviticus 20:13."
About the excecution of two men in same sex activity. This closely follows Lev. 20:9 calling for the killing of children cursing their parents. It's one of MANY reasons Mosaic Law would be TOO problematic in its application now.
"It's without question it comes from Satan, not God!"
Christ Himself was... (Cont.)
clay56 3 weeks ago
This man is a Heratic, and what he is teaching in not the scripture, and he should be rejected as such. It is that simple.
noblelearning7777777 2 months ago
Part 2
..."Bed." Since Paul didn't specify the definition of the first word or even define the second, it's not certain he was even referring to homosexuality at all, MUCH less all kinds of same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
WOW! MEN USING THE PULPIT TO PASS THEIR MESSAGE ON, NONE OF THOSE VERSES SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING GAY, YES GOD SAID EVERYTHING HE HAAD CREATED WAS GOOD, BECAUSE HE CREATED HE AND HER (ADAM AND EVE) AND THEY WERE FOR EACH OTHER ADAM DIDN'T HAVE A MAN COMPANION EVE DIDN'T HAVE A WOMEN COMPANION...BUT WHAT ABOUT THESE VERSES...
Lev. 18:22 , "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
TheMessengerofChrist 2 months ago
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them. 1Cor. 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
TheMessengerofChrist 2 months ago
"Lev 20:13..."
Yes. this verse calls for death for two men lying together, as does Lev. 20:9 for a child cursing his/her parents. It's just one among many verses making Mosaic Law problematic to say the least in it's modern day application.
"1Cor. 6:9-10..."
The parts of this passage appearing to address same gender relations focus on two Greek terms. One has a number of definitions. The other appears to be Paul's own fusion of the Greek words for "man" and... (Cont.)
clay56 2 months ago
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"YES GOD SAID EVERYTHING HE HAAD CREATED WAS GOOD, BECAUSE HE CREATED HE AND HER (ADAM AND EVE) AND THEY WERE FOR EACH OTHER..."
Devine advocacy for one orientation does not neccessarily mean devine prohibition for another.
"Lev. 18:22 ,..."
Yes the "abomination" verse. Other "abominations" like sowing a field with two crops or wearing clothing of two different fabrics would be considered nonsense by most Christians now.
clay56 2 months ago
"The Catholic Church teaches that such acts are always violations of divine and natural law."
I believe this is the same Church that for centuries accepted bribes to absolve people of their sins ahead of time? I think these were called indulgences. I think it was the same Church that falsely taught for nearly two thousand years that Mary Magdalene was the prostitute that washed Christ feet with her tears. As much as I respect all our institutions of worship, it just goes to show how... (Cont.)
clay56 2 months ago
Part 2
...None are perfect and that all either have been and/or could be wrong about something.
clay56 2 months ago
While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." Some say that it is a reference to male prostitutes rather than to two committed homosexuals. Yet, others argue that Paul, who wrote the passage, would not have repeated "male prostitutes" twice.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"While the scripture may sound clear, the debate actually surrounds the use of the Greek word that this particular version of the Bible translates as "homosexual offenders." The term is "arsenokoite." "
Which again Paul himself did not define, leaving those in the generations that followed to subjectively define, redefine and debate over the generations that followed.
clay56 2 months ago
"The term is "arsenokoite." "
I believe up until the late 60's the Catholic Church had defined this term as "masturbator." Harper's Bible Commentary defines it as a customer/prostitute relationship. Neither are reflective of all homosexuals or all same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9–10, All of Scripture teaches the unacceptability of homosexual behavior. But the rejection of this behavior is not an arbitrary prohibition. It, like other moral imperatives, is rooted in natural law—the design that God has built into human nature.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
. . . Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them" (Rom. 1:26–28, 32). Elsewhere Paul again warns that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
He says, "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
Confirming this fact is the New Testament’s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1, Paul attributes the homosexual desires of some to a refusal to acknowledge and worship God.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"Confirming this fact is the New Testament’s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1,"
Along with heterosexual behavior outside the boundary of marriage which is why Paul probably would not have been any more accepting if the acts conducted in Rom. 1 had been heterosexual among UNmarried partners. And since there is no mention of same gender marriage, it would be overpresumptuous to state the act is condemned in all situations.
clay56 2 months ago
While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are. God may issue different ceremonies for use in different times and cultures, but his moral requirements are eternal and are binding on all cultures.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"While the Old Testament’s ceremonial requirements are no longer binding, its moral requirements are."
Since none of Mosaic Law falls Biblically under the headings of "moral" or "ceremonial," the terms could be subjectively used by the reader in the defining of any law.
clay56 2 months ago
again just COPYING AND PASTING from a CATHOLIC website : Reinterpreting Scripture
To discount this, some homosexual activists have argued that moral imperatives from the Old Testament can be dismissed since there were certain ceremonial requirements at the time—such as not eating pork, or circumcising male babies—that are no longer binding.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
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clay56 2 months ago
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clay56 2 months ago
I AM NOT JUDGING !!! cutting and pasting from the catholic bible. The very bible this man said if people actually read they would understand that being gay is a gift. When I am able to show you by SIMPLY cutting and pasting from THE CATHOLIC BIBLE that he is making this up to deceive people that want to hear this ( aka have their ears tickled )
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"2 Timothy 4:3-4"
This verse mentions neither gay nor gay supportive Christians. Since it is so non specific it could easily be exploited by the dishonest in an attempt to condemn any one speaking our Lord's word.
clay56 2 months ago
The problem with cathlics wich includes my grandma, grandpa, aunts, uncles, father, mother is that they do not read the bible for themselves they accept what the priest is saying without verifying with the scriptures - even the catholic ones. When the catholic scriptures say : DO NOT BE DECEIVED NO HOMOSEXUAL WILL INHERENT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. This man is tickling your ears and telling people what they want to hear. Wich is exactly what false teachers do
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
In the new testament in a CATHOLIC bible it says : In the New Testament
1 Corinthians 6:9: "Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexuals nor sodomites ... will inherit the kingdom of God."
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"1 Corinthians 6:9:,,,"
The parts appearing to address homosexuality in this verse revolve around two Greek terms. The first has a number of definitions, the second is to believed to be Paul's fusion of the Greek terms for "man" and "bed." Since Paul didn't specify the definition of the first word nor define the second it's not even certain he was referring to homosexuality at all MUCH less all types of same gender relationships.
clay56 2 months ago
I am not judging I am copying and pasting scriptures from the catholic bible. The catholic bible has all the verses I mentioned earlier. I was raised catholic btw and I read my bible at cathlic church each sunday and this guy is LYING plain and simple
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
Don't judge people 777warrior. Luke 3:27 judge not and you will not be judged. Condemn not and you will not be condemned. Just so you know every book in the bible is not true, not nearly. The catholics chose which books would be in the bible and which would not. Its impossible for the bible to all be true and that's face. The catholic bible has a lot more books than your bible. Since they are the ones who put ours together why don't u go read it?
troycnicholson 2 months ago
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"Romans 1:26-27 -..."
Going back a few verses we see that Rom.1:23 and 25 strongly suggest the people mentioned in the passage abandoned our Lord to participate in a pagan ritual. But would the acts be any less "shameful" or "vile" had they been heterosexual among UNmarried men and women? Would the recording of the incident be exploited to condemn all heterosexual relations, even husbands and wives? It is the tragic double standard TOO many have of the different orientations.
clay56 2 months ago
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
This is what the bible truly teaches : Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." "
It also says the same thing about planting different crops in the same field and making clothing from two different fabrics. And while Lev. 20:13 appears to call for death for men lying together, it calles for the same thing in the case of a child cursing his/her parents in Lev. 20:9. The penalty for either would be considered morally uphorrid by most now.
clay56 2 months ago
I have no problem with homosexual people infact my sister is a lesbian and I love her still although I disagree with her way of life I respect her enough to allow her to live it. And she should respect me enough not to try and change my beliefs. And I belive what the bible says" NO homosexual will inherent the kingdom " c'mon it even says DO NOT BE DECEIVED !!!! Wich is EXACTLY what this preacher is doing. Again no problem with homosexuals personally but THIS IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
"And I belive what the bible says" NO homosexual will inherent the kingdom " "
The KJV uses the word "effiminate" and the term "abusers of themselves with mankind." These could be in reference to people of ANY orientation. The word "homosexual" itself appeared in NO Bible prior to 1946 with its printing in the "Revised Standard Version."
clay56 2 months ago
This preacher is what the bible refers to as a wolf in sheep's clothing. He is not a man of the true God Yahweh who revelas himself in his word but rather a false teacher who is spreading lies. If HE would actually read the bible he would have read 1 Corinthisnas 6:9 wich says : Do you not know that the wicked will NOT inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL
777warrior4christ 2 months ago
And to answer the question where it says "being gay is a gift from god" it came from his heart, a thing many of u Christians have forgot.
troycnicholson 2 months ago
Also, I'm sure all of you have lied to protect or to not hurt a loved one, even though that is one of the ten commandments your heart tells you its ok because words mean nothing. Its not about words, its about spirit.
troycnicholson 2 months ago
Hmm guys I'm pretty sure the bible says Luke 6:37 judge not and you will not be judged, condemn not and you will not be condemned. So to all of you judgeing all the amazing gay people of the world and condemning them, that is the only way u can judge and condemn yourself.
troycnicholson 2 months ago
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Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13).
NannaJQSN 2 months ago
Being gay is a gift from God is a lie. The word says turn from your evil ways and mentions men burning in lust after their own kind as something God will judge them for. The word also talks of what sins people commit on Earth that will keep people out of the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven. However, we are too establish our little Kingdom of Heaven on Earth in the meantime where we work on our character flaws--in other words, you want to be Biblically correct not politically correct.
venettakalu 2 months ago
Christians love you. Christians love you so much they have to love you to death. They love you with knives, guns, bombs and forcing you to believe in their religion. Christians love you so much they're allowed to be hypocrites. They love you despite the fact their entire religion is stolen and deconstructed from every other religion on the planet. Christians love you. The billions they've killed and prosecuted over the centuries prove it =)
lisentia 2 months ago
If I see a christian agree with "being gay is a gift from god"I obviously see that christian obviously doesn't read their bible since apparently they forgot that little story of sodom and gammorah..
QuassDebonair 2 months ago
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"If I see a christian agree with "being gay is a gift from god"I obviously see that christian obviously doesn't read their bible since apparently they forgot that little story of sodom and gammorah."
The story of Sodom revolves around the Hebrew word for "know" (yada) with its ELEVEN definitions. Yep, a SINGLE multitermed word is being exploited to condemn an entire segment of the population..
clay56 2 months ago
He who is without sin on this page, please... Well, you know what to do with that stone.
weylin420 2 months ago
You are taking scripture out of context. You are misleading your flock, Rector. God teaches His children to take a brother or sister aside, a brother in Christ and tell them of their sin, if one does not adhere, then to take a brother, if that doesn't work then one is to be excommunicated for a period of time. You sir, are treading in dangerous waters. I Peter 3:10-12, 4:10-11, Rev. 21:27
You are misguiding people. God loves the gay person and the straight, but hates the sinful lifestyle.
NorthAmericanNabi 2 months ago
People its not culture. God loves you gay or not but he hates our actions. Why would God make you something different than his original? (Adam and Eve) its all choice but CULTURE ,take gay as such a strong sin. If I kill someone and and man sleeps with a man wo committed the bigger sin? No one we are bot accountable. Its a sin but you have the choice to repent. I have no problem with gays they are my brothers n sisters in Christ but we all have sins we need to take care of.
UberDrk 2 months ago
Homesexuality is a sin....
IAMAGRICULTOR 2 months ago
He never answered the question of where it says that being gay is a gift from God.
caschale 2 months ago
It's not culture who is against gay behavior, it is God! I was gay for 20 years. It was the time of indescribable misery and despair. Then I received the power to change. Today I am healthy and totally happy heterosexual. If you are in the similar situation, you can visit ilivestraight website to help you on your way to become straight again. Also check "get off homosexuality-become straight" video on you tube.
sinisbal 2 months ago
@sinisbal bullcrap. Being gay is not a choice. Why would ANYONE choose to be something that is frowned upon. We are all made in God's image....not physically but spiritually. King David "loved the company of other men" AKA GAY. The Bible is Gods word BUT it was written my man in a time when homosexuality was more frowned upon then it is today. I am a gay Christian. I know that God made me gay for a reason and that NO ONE OTHER than God can judge me for my actions on His earth.
MSus92 2 months ago
@sinisbal nah it's culture. you sound like you need some serious help, please seek counsel as soon as possible before you end up hurting yourself or others. may God bless you and your judgmental ways and help guide you from satan.
chercherchercher 2 months ago
.. It is because of FALSE Priests such as this , that our Nation will face condemnation .. So when (not if) it happens , you have people such as him to thank for it ... That day is CLOSE at hand and I can assure you there shall be a special judgment for the likes of these ...
sqrlyman1 2 months ago
@sqrlyman1 seek psychiatric help before your hurt others or yourself. we shall keep you in our prayers. God bless you and repent from satan. amen!
chercherchercher 2 months ago
@chercherchercher -- Being a Raging Homosexual will NOT get YOU into the kingdom of Heaven , no matter how much you TWIST the word of God ... Get over It and get better , LOL !!!
sqrlyman1 2 months ago
GOOD FOR YOU ED!!!!!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!! EQUALITY FOR ALL!!!! i'm GAY and it's MY gift from God!!! THANK YOU GOD FOR MAKING ME GAY AND BEAUTIFUL INSIDE AND OUT!! I pray for all the small minded, gay hating christians who are ONLY hating themselves from within. SAD PEOPLE :) XOXOXOXO
V3GAdigi1 2 months ago
"Why not address the first part that you quoted from mrOrigins1."
Because I found the second part more relevant. MrORIGINS1 implied that all humans are born either male or female. I simply responded that this assertion is not true in all cases.
j4unumber1 2 months ago