Vlog: Peter Schiff's Crash Proof Commentary Chapters 1-4

[zzzDiamondzzz]

lol this guy is just trolling

[devilmirror1]

The connection between our current economy and overpopulation is that we have fiat monetary system since 1913. It artificially inflate the US economy to unprecedented proportion. Now, it's time to pay the price. The overall population growth rate will be lower because people are facing tougher time in crisis.

Also, you can't assume orange to be the same as gold. Orange is consumed and disappear from the economy while gold will be traded again and again, until the Fed steals it from you. XD

[BankRampage]

Yes, I am not seeing too many baby-boomers with 10 kids walking around (except the occasional Octomom and anchor baby exception). But the real question is: "What part of the population is the inflated part? And what do you do with them (us)?"

In a sense, the orange doesn't really dissappear for the economy as it is excreted from the human body and regrown as oranges or sold as fertilizer (Ok, that was gross, but true). Gold is not reusable in the ultimate sense but as a means of agreed excha

[devilmirror1]

Gee, here come another human who believe that everything is linear. It is a fatal belief 101 in economics.

Look, growth is controlled by the invisible hand of free market. Home and chair business can only grow to a certain point because of demand and supply rules. Some sellers have to leave when the products are flooded in the market.

And, you forget to mention gold or money. This is how we store our wealth in order to buy things. Now, farmer Chang can buy his home when he has enough money.

[BankRampage]

Yes, growth will only grow to a certain point, I agree. But I was trying to demonstrate the connection the economy had with overpopulation, which is an issue economists tend to ignore.

The oranges was the currency in the place of gold. To add actual gold into the equation, the gold miner would have to be added, but he'd be mining gold for oranges just like chairmaker was.

[iamacyborg]

It was a simplified example to support a point. You're taking it too far when you say something like "the chair maker files for unemployment" since poof you just introduced a government entity, taxes, etc. which aren't even part of the original example.

Chairs wear out. The free market will support an optimal number of chair makers relative to other producers to match the rate of chairs wearing out.

[BankRampage]

Government entities are created when the population grows to a level where regulation is needed. I point to the "Freedom of the Bathroom" example. If there is just one person in the house, he can use the bathroom anytime he wants. When 20 people all have to share, regulation and governing enter the picture.

The chairs do not wear out at the rate fast enough to feed chairmaker. (A similar problem can be found with automotive production), therefore subsidy or unemployment.

[greenb1a]

I am disgusted by your mask. post just audio if you don't want to show face.

[BankRampage]

I can't please everybody, haha. I thought it was a very nice mask when I bought it. I like it better than the ski mask.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

BS, chairmaker doesnt need a growing population to stay in business, cos he can make tables and other stuff during the time when everybody has a chair and doesnt need a new one

[BankRampage]

I addressed the making of tables and even houses in the equation. It's the same problem. When the population stops growing, those items won't be in demand anymore and chairmaker will have to start getting orange unemployment or be killed.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

no, if the population stops growing, he will either cut production and do part-time farming or come up with some other stuff like wardrobe, premium chair, orange basket or whatever farmers wish (it can be even some useless stuff) if farmers have extra oranges to trade. look at our society, it so productive that we need to employ only 2-3% in farming to get enough food, 20% in production to get enough products(even some useless) and 80% in services to re-distribute those products or serve.

[BankRampage]

Chairmaker can't do part-time farming because that land is owned by the farmers. There is also no new lands to farm because of the size of their planet. Remember, the only reason chairmaker was in the exclusive chairmaking business in the first place was because the human population increased weekly. Technically, chairmaker could furnish Farmer with a house, table, chairs, wooden utensils, and it still would not be enough.

I am looking at our society...and the massive unemployment.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

population is still growing in US, he problem is drop in international trade and domestic spending due to the recession(corection).

my point is, there can be full employment in a society without population growth but it takes time for economical adjustment.

[BankRampage]

The adjustment would be the retraining of the chairmakers into farmers with chairmaking being only considered a side job? The "adjustment" you are talking about is unemployment while this transition takes place, right?

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

yes, adjustment would be unemployment, while the economy gets rid of unnecessary activities and "find" the necessary

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

so if 1 out of 50 people in society can produce enough food (oranges) and the population is not growing. the rest 49 can still be employed in making chairs or cutting hair if farmer wants to trade or if he doesnt want to trade then others can do part time farming and mako other stuff or chill at the beach

[BankRampage]

This is assuming that Chang wants or even needs any of the junk that the 49 people make. If he doesn't, those 49 people will starve. If he switched to part-time farming, those 49 people would starve.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

Chang would not own the whole land, if he did the other 49 would re-distribute it (like at the end of feodal order in Europe)

secondly, other people would farm, maybe not so productive as Chang but still they could produce much more food then required for 1 person. so if each person would need to spend 1 hour per day to produce enough food some people would use the rest of time to produce something else or service the new farmers, because of relative productivity it would benefit them

[BankRampage]

In the US, we can't just take the land from the farmers and redistribute it. That is where the Warlord comes in, and he's usually protecting the farmers' rights (as long as he continues to get fed himself).

Your formula seems to completely displace chairmaking as a seperate business by merging it into agriculture. It also removes the 'business' of the orange trade since everyone is self-sustaining. I'm going to have to think about this one a bit.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

the land re-distribution would occur only if farmers own all the land and they dont trade.

everyone being self-sustaining is a theoratical extreme and it would not happen in US because people need other stuff and agricultural productivity is high (information would not disapear). you can see how people return to home-grown stuff in failed states in Africa (Zimbabwe f.ex). but in US, because of the information and technology and capital adjustments would not reach such an extreme.

[BankRampage]

The farmers own all the important land. But under our system, having a farmer going bankrupt and transferring his land to a 'more able' farmer seems to be the norm.

If people are not self-sustaining, there will be an immediate trade imbalance by the ones who sustain them (therefore, the problem). People NEED the agricultural imbalances, not the Barbie dolls or even the newest laptop. Is this technology really more important than breakfast or dinner? No.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

"Is this technology really more important than breakfast or dinner?"

in general, yes

of course in some situation a liter of water is more valuable than pound of gold (if you are about to die from thirst)

in US there would not be a famine because of the high productivity in farming, the government would give food to everyone if unemployment hits 80% (only 3% of population is necessary to produce enough food) or organise unemployed people to farm. but unemploymen would not hit 80% ...(cont)

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

(cont) ...because there would not be food shortiges in US and people could continue trading other stuff.

so here comes information, technology and capital, because people would still own these 3 things the adjustment period would be shorter and US economy would not lose 95% of GDP (the level where everybody is farming). so even if the population stops growing economy would adjust, some people would have to lose/change jobs but overall economy would not suffer much

[BankRampage]

Let's look at a case model of an economy of a super-power 'adjusting'...Nazi Germany. The government had those 3 things and used them to try to increase production to sustain their culture by trying to conquer the world and 'take.' This is our culture too and the foundation of the United States. In order to sustain our economy, we use force to get oil, not adjust and reduce spending.

[sujajajjaakakajjs]

I dont think Germany was "adjusting" just before the WW2, the production was booming at that time, but yes, powers seek more power.

why do you say that tech is worth less then food if by using this tech you can trade in more food then without using this tech. of course there are situations when food is most important but in general tech is (if its more productive)

do you agree that there can be full employment and economic growth (however tiny) with shrinking population?

[BankRampage]

No technology is worth more than food (unless the technology is fueling the food growth). People in Germany were paying wheelbarrows full of money for bread, not new clothes.

You are right about the government having to provide food, as they have done in the past (soup lines). But this would be Socialism, right? Since this food redistribution would infringe on the 'rights' of the farmers.

[zeezrom]

I just got done planting 3 acres of corn. got the seed from another potato farmer that had excess seed from last years crop. Free seed. Good neighbors are what we need more of. hmm Too bad their are not more people like this. If their was no government interference taking all the production, maybe their would be more people sharing their increase and supporting each other. I like my log chair. I accidentally broke the pigs leg and he squealed so loud my neighbors came. They dug the pit for me.

[iamacyborg]

That's what prices are for. If there's a surplus of something, the price falls. It's a much more practical system than pleading for universal altruism.

I do agree though private charity contributions have been decimated by government confiscation of wealth in the name of social welfare programs. Red Cross was opposed to government provided unemployment.

[zeezrom]

Chair maker needs to make chairs in his spare time. Invention? the potato was invented a long time ago. Grows anywhere. any food production will get anyone through any time. no more island babies too.. they breed too much and eat too much :)

[BankRampage]

Well, that used to be the case. But nowadays, the farmer exclusively farms, and chairmaker exclusively makes chairs. The division of labor is a sharp division.

Yeah, no more babies, haha.

[zeezrom]

I am a potato farmer. Everyone likes potatoes. If nobody wants them I'll eat them myself until they get hungry. I'll hire his sons and put them to work on my potato farm. My chair is a log rough cut with a chainsaw. Takes about 1 min to make. Gold is too scarce. Silver is better choice. Paper is ok if it is treasury issued. Fed has to go and void all those bonds they stole :). Chow

[BankRampage]

What will the chairmaker make? He can't become a potato farmer because there is no agriculture room for him. Everything has been farmed already.

Right, gold is too scarce. Haha, you could always mix it into another metal (Here we go again with inflation!)

[Due4Revolution]

Why did you go from encouraging people to shut down the banks (which was a good thing). To trying to knock down Peter Schiff?

You totally got off on base with this ego trip about Peter. Why don't you ask Peter to take out his dick and you can see if yours is bigger than his. Then get back to attacking the BANKS. What really matters and could really make a difference. What a waste of time and energy.

[BankRampage]

Well, I'm just analizing his book a bit to try to understand the economy a bit. He seems to be the foremost expert on it. I don't see where I was "knocking him," but rather, questioning the mathematics of the system in general.

[bl782]

Phhone the radio show and have your question answered because listening to you I could help but feel there was something you were not taking from peters comments

[BankRampage]

I have a feeling that we are sort of on the same page, but the difference being that Schiff won't touch the subject of overpopulation (most people won't). I'm not sure if it's a deliberate exclusion or he perhaps really doesn't see the threat.

I also do notice Mr. Schiff recommending increased production of something, but he never says what. This tells me something interesting, that perhaps the game is unwinnable when playing by standard rules.

[zeezrom]

Give use solution options. The more options we have the better off we will be. please stop with the Population control rhetoric. It's getting old. An example of a solution would be like families should pool their resources and possibly pay off and mortgages so that if they need to they could move in together into one house. Being in debt on a house will have the military come down on you like Waco to foreclose on you if you resist. They love that kind of action. Watch out for the boobie traps :)

[BankRampage]

Pay their mortgages?? Surely you are joking. Why the hell should they pay their mortgages if they could leverage the banks? You've not examined what I am advocating at all.

The growing population is what is getting old. I'm tired of the same old system with it's ridiculous 'family values' that are supposed to be a shining model for all to follow. Obviously, breeding is wrong and someone like me needs to stop it.

[hume12345]

so very true. this how the world actually works.

[BankRampage]

Sorry, my math is off and faulty. It would actually come out to 48 farmers a year. Jeez.