Any one who votes "Yes" on Issue 2 must want to live w/ lower wages, less medical benefits at a higher cost, increased lay-offs, ETC. By what means would you have to plead your case against your independent, out-sourcing, profligate employer?! Yourself? Goodfuckingluck, repub brainwashed dicks!
Hey, guess what, you, "Yes" duckweed neo-fascist fucks? You're currently being trounced, 65% - NOOO 35% -yes. Too bad, so sad. Unions alive and well against profligate corporations.
Read your history of the struggles of American labor, which got their standards of living uplifted by the development of unions in the late 20's.
I'm voting YES! I know of teachers that should NOT be teaching, but they are, because they can, and there's nothing we (the parents) can do about it. What a shame!!! Unions was worthless and promote JACK SQUAT in the workforce! And sadly, our children suffer the most!
@stevee66oh I am also a tax payer. Fire fighters, police officers all pay taxes too, so don't feel you have a monopoly on paying taxes. I pay 10% of my retirement and 25% of my health care. And we are actually paid less than the private sector people with comprable education and experience. (That includes my benefits.) You can't copmare my salary (I have a Master's) to the salary of a high school graduate.
For those of you that feel that you are under a "monopoly" by your local fire department, remember that they will always be there when you need them. Without questions asked, they will still come to save your life and property, all while putting their lives at risk. Every day that my husband goes to work, I know that he may not return. But yet, no one cares about firefighters until they need them. For the safety of our firefighters, Vote No on Issue 2.
I voted early today and I voted NO on issue 2 today. I know too many firefighters, police officers, teachers, nurses and other public servants that are already struggling with the rest of the disappearing middle class. This bill is an attack on the middle class plan and simple. If you can not see that you are blind. If you don't have at least 5 million in the bank "they" are coming for you next. By the way I have talked with middle class Republicans that are against this bill as well.
Steve66: AUTOMATIC increases? Uhhh, check your facts, buddy. Those are NEGOTIATED. Each municipality can agree or disagree to give those raises every few years during contracts talks. The city doesn't HAVE to give those raises. They agree to. That's right - AGREEEE to. If you don't like it, vote yes all you like because the bill is still goin' down in flames. Get mad at your council people and mayor, not the one's who risk their lives to save yours!
@eng77ine - I bet "Ma Bell" used the same arguments - "We don't FORCE people to pay $25/month to lease that phone in their kitchen... they AGREE to buy phone service from us..." - but the Bell monopoly meant there was no other provider, the customer had no negotiating power against a monopoly. When the union "negotiates" the AUTOMATIC increases, it does so as a MONOPOLY provider of labor - the cities (my representatives) "negotiate" under duress.
I'll proudly offset Baritonebynight's vote with my "YES" on Issue 2. Organized labor is fear-mongering for their own purposes, namely, maintaining their own political power AGAINST the taxpayers who ultimately have to pay the unions' automatic wage increases despite our wages being stagnant for decades. Neither corporations nor governments have "magic money trees", ALL money they spend ultimately comes from US - when unions demand more money, they demand it from me. I can't pay any more, sorry.
@baritonebynight - I'm sorry, but I live in a "middle class" town. ALL of my neighbors and friends are "the middle class", the fellow taxpayers who just can't afford to buy their police, fire, social service and teacher labor from a MONOPOLY any more. The union members are just a SLICE of the middle class, seeking to exploit the rest of us here in my middle class town.
@steve66oh Do you realized that we are already paying 10% into retirement and I'm paying 16% of my health care.That was done through collective bargaining. We have made concessions but we REFUSE to give up our voice in the work place. I refuse to work in a place where I have no voice in what I was professionally trained to do by thoes who were not trained. No to issue 2.
@baritonebynight - And you have the right to feel that way, and to vote your personal best interest.
So do I... along with everyone who is not a recipient but a payer (through their taxes) of govt workers' paychecks... who simply can't afford for our representatives to be forced to "negotiate" with (i.e., beg for "concessions" from..) a labor monopoly. I'm betting there are more of us - your employers, the taxpayers - than there are of you.
@baritonebynight - When you quote how many signed your petition, if you wish to claim signatures as indications of support.... remember to subtract 1 from your total, because I signed your petition too.... NOT because I support the initiative, but because I support the people's right to vote on it.
Since y'all claim to be THE Middle Class... would you support an Amendment requiring the avg salary under any municipal labor contract be exactly equal to the median income of the population served?
Yes on issue 2 helps all workers. Let's stand firm with our state's workers and Vote YES on 2! The administration tried it the union way by asking them to help pay for retirement and insurance. But the unions were not flexible. We cannot afford public employee unions any more.
@noggin7717 ahh...so public workers are bankrupting the state of Ohio. So by taking away the voices of middle class workers, this will fix the state budget that was caused by corporate greed? Ahh...sure and Kaisch gives his cronies a huge raise paid by the taxpayers. We can not afford issue 2 because it will cost the state of Ohio a POWERFUL PRICE. The poorest states are the ones that do not have collective bargaining. I won't let that happen to Ohio. Vote NO on issue 2.
@noggin7717 ahh...so public workers are bankrupting the state of Ohio. So by taking away the voices of middle class workers, this will fix the state budget that was caused by corporate greed? Ahh...sure and Kaisch gives his cronies a huge raise paid by the taxpayers. We can not afford issue 2 because it will cost the state of Ohio a POWERFUL PRICE. The poorest states are the ones that do not have collective bargaining. I won't let that happen to Ohio. Vote NO on issue 2.
They can then work overtime and take up to 6 months of 'COMP' time paid as vacation. And get all their benefits for free. Time to take these free-loaders off the pay rolls for good.
@PatriotMikal Who gets benefits for free dum dum? Nobody. Public employees pay too, but they provide a public service to benefit you. You probably want good fire fighters when your house catches on fire, good police officers to keep you safe, good teachers for your kids, good nurses to take care of you when you are sick, good librarians to assist you in matters of literacy. These people deserve a voice at the table to negiotiate.Taking that voice away is unfair and in many cases, unsafe. NO to 2
This is another BS lie. First off, just because they earn allot of money, they are not 'Middle Class', they are still working class like I was. Second as a tax payer I pay them 'Comp' time. This is earned on top of the Overtime they get and allows them to accumulate time off with pay for working the extra hours, Not given in the private sector.
(Also) need to lean on the concept that (just like the private sector) any/all "benefits" are 100% EARNED... and THEN, additionally, contributed-to both directly from pay, and indirectly as taxpayers... so what's being asked of public service workers is IN FACT, increased-additional direct contribution(s) to those "benefits."... which, you'll remember, are 100% EARNED... before "contributions" are requested/required.
I hope that Beth Hansen's 40% pay rise over her counter part in Ted Strickland's administration, as well Republican Senate President Tom Niehaus order that 19 Senate caucus employees get pay hikes since July worth about $160,000 combined finally let everyone see what Republicans are really about and who they are taking care of.
Any one who votes "Yes" on Issue 2 must want to live w/ lower wages, less medical benefits at a higher cost, increased lay-offs, ETC. By what means would you have to plead your case against your independent, out-sourcing, profligate employer?! Yourself? Goodfuckingluck, repub brainwashed dicks!
3244gorilla 3 months ago
Hey, guess what, you, "Yes" duckweed neo-fascist fucks? You're currently being trounced, 65% - NOOO 35% -yes. Too bad, so sad. Unions alive and well against profligate corporations.
Read your history of the struggles of American labor, which got their standards of living uplifted by the development of unions in the late 20's.
3244gorilla 3 months ago
I'm voting YES! I know of teachers that should NOT be teaching, but they are, because they can, and there's nothing we (the parents) can do about it. What a shame!!! Unions was worthless and promote JACK SQUAT in the workforce! And sadly, our children suffer the most!
mattnpeg 3 months ago
Vote YES!
Behold! Your Public Sector Unions at Work
/watch?v=su4PwZCWUdg
ladefreakndah 3 months ago
Union scam ! Vote yes on two ! No more free rides for Government dogs
561tran 3 months ago
@stevee66oh I am also a tax payer. Fire fighters, police officers all pay taxes too, so don't feel you have a monopoly on paying taxes. I pay 10% of my retirement and 25% of my health care. And we are actually paid less than the private sector people with comprable education and experience. (That includes my benefits.) You can't copmare my salary (I have a Master's) to the salary of a high school graduate.
iteachdoyou 4 months ago
nononononononononononono on issue 2
ContrabassDrio2325 4 months ago
For those of you that feel that you are under a "monopoly" by your local fire department, remember that they will always be there when you need them. Without questions asked, they will still come to save your life and property, all while putting their lives at risk. Every day that my husband goes to work, I know that he may not return. But yet, no one cares about firefighters until they need them. For the safety of our firefighters, Vote No on Issue 2.
ALC52309 4 months ago
I voted early today and I voted NO on issue 2 today. I know too many firefighters, police officers, teachers, nurses and other public servants that are already struggling with the rest of the disappearing middle class. This bill is an attack on the middle class plan and simple. If you can not see that you are blind. If you don't have at least 5 million in the bank "they" are coming for you next. By the way I have talked with middle class Republicans that are against this bill as well.
tonyaldorsey 4 months ago
Steve66: AUTOMATIC increases? Uhhh, check your facts, buddy. Those are NEGOTIATED. Each municipality can agree or disagree to give those raises every few years during contracts talks. The city doesn't HAVE to give those raises. They agree to. That's right - AGREEEE to. If you don't like it, vote yes all you like because the bill is still goin' down in flames. Get mad at your council people and mayor, not the one's who risk their lives to save yours!
eng77ine 4 months ago 2
@eng77ine - I bet "Ma Bell" used the same arguments - "We don't FORCE people to pay $25/month to lease that phone in their kitchen... they AGREE to buy phone service from us..." - but the Bell monopoly meant there was no other provider, the customer had no negotiating power against a monopoly. When the union "negotiates" the AUTOMATIC increases, it does so as a MONOPOLY provider of labor - the cities (my representatives) "negotiate" under duress.
steve66oh 4 months ago
I'll proudly offset Baritonebynight's vote with my "YES" on Issue 2. Organized labor is fear-mongering for their own purposes, namely, maintaining their own political power AGAINST the taxpayers who ultimately have to pay the unions' automatic wage increases despite our wages being stagnant for decades. Neither corporations nor governments have "magic money trees", ALL money they spend ultimately comes from US - when unions demand more money, they demand it from me. I can't pay any more, sorry.
steve66oh 4 months ago
@steve66oh And the 1.3 million people who signed the petition to repeal the shady SB5 will offset your one vote against the middle class.
baritonebynight 4 months ago
@baritonebynight - I'm sorry, but I live in a "middle class" town. ALL of my neighbors and friends are "the middle class", the fellow taxpayers who just can't afford to buy their police, fire, social service and teacher labor from a MONOPOLY any more. The union members are just a SLICE of the middle class, seeking to exploit the rest of us here in my middle class town.
steve66oh 4 months ago
@steve66oh Do you realized that we are already paying 10% into retirement and I'm paying 16% of my health care.That was done through collective bargaining. We have made concessions but we REFUSE to give up our voice in the work place. I refuse to work in a place where I have no voice in what I was professionally trained to do by thoes who were not trained. No to issue 2.
baritonebynight 4 months ago
@baritonebynight - And you have the right to feel that way, and to vote your personal best interest.
So do I... along with everyone who is not a recipient but a payer (through their taxes) of govt workers' paychecks... who simply can't afford for our representatives to be forced to "negotiate" with (i.e., beg for "concessions" from..) a labor monopoly. I'm betting there are more of us - your employers, the taxpayers - than there are of you.
Yes on Issue 2
steve66oh 4 months ago
@baritonebynight - When you quote how many signed your petition, if you wish to claim signatures as indications of support.... remember to subtract 1 from your total, because I signed your petition too.... NOT because I support the initiative, but because I support the people's right to vote on it.
Since y'all claim to be THE Middle Class... would you support an Amendment requiring the avg salary under any municipal labor contract be exactly equal to the median income of the population served?
steve66oh 4 months ago
Yes on issue 2 helps all workers. Let's stand firm with our state's workers and Vote YES on 2! The administration tried it the union way by asking them to help pay for retirement and insurance. But the unions were not flexible. We cannot afford public employee unions any more.
YES on 2! It's the right thing to do.
noggin7717 5 months ago
@noggin7717 ahh...so public workers are bankrupting the state of Ohio. So by taking away the voices of middle class workers, this will fix the state budget that was caused by corporate greed? Ahh...sure and Kaisch gives his cronies a huge raise paid by the taxpayers. We can not afford issue 2 because it will cost the state of Ohio a POWERFUL PRICE. The poorest states are the ones that do not have collective bargaining. I won't let that happen to Ohio. Vote NO on issue 2.
baritonebynight 5 months ago
@noggin7717 ahh...so public workers are bankrupting the state of Ohio. So by taking away the voices of middle class workers, this will fix the state budget that was caused by corporate greed? Ahh...sure and Kaisch gives his cronies a huge raise paid by the taxpayers. We can not afford issue 2 because it will cost the state of Ohio a POWERFUL PRICE. The poorest states are the ones that do not have collective bargaining. I won't let that happen to Ohio. Vote NO on issue 2.
baritonebynight 5 months ago
Comment removed
baritonebynight 5 months ago
They can then work overtime and take up to 6 months of 'COMP' time paid as vacation. And get all their benefits for free. Time to take these free-loaders off the pay rolls for good.
PatriotMikal 5 months ago
@PatriotMikal Who gets benefits for free dum dum? Nobody. Public employees pay too, but they provide a public service to benefit you. You probably want good fire fighters when your house catches on fire, good police officers to keep you safe, good teachers for your kids, good nurses to take care of you when you are sick, good librarians to assist you in matters of literacy. These people deserve a voice at the table to negiotiate.Taking that voice away is unfair and in many cases, unsafe. NO to 2
baritonebynight 5 months ago
This is another BS lie. First off, just because they earn allot of money, they are not 'Middle Class', they are still working class like I was. Second as a tax payer I pay them 'Comp' time. This is earned on top of the Overtime they get and allows them to accumulate time off with pay for working the extra hours, Not given in the private sector.
PatriotMikal 5 months ago
I'm voting NO on issue 2.
baritonebynight 5 months ago
(Also) need to lean on the concept that (just like the private sector) any/all "benefits" are 100% EARNED... and THEN, additionally, contributed-to both directly from pay, and indirectly as taxpayers... so what's being asked of public service workers is IN FACT, increased-additional direct contribution(s) to those "benefits."... which, you'll remember, are 100% EARNED... before "contributions" are requested/required.
voyeurdug 5 months ago
I hope that Beth Hansen's 40% pay rise over her counter part in Ted Strickland's administration, as well Republican Senate President Tom Niehaus order that 19 Senate caucus employees get pay hikes since July worth about $160,000 combined finally let everyone see what Republicans are really about and who they are taking care of.
casuall454 5 months ago
We're taking the bus back, John.
trumanhatch 5 months ago