@Packerd01 So the library, the police force, the fire department, the military, the post office, the public schools, social security, medicare, medicade, federal lands are all evil communist plots? Please explain.
One good man in a "Heartless" government. Thank you Bernie for standing up for us !! You are a true light in a very dark hole we have been thrown into
The GOP want Obama and Dems Out good. Then they better fix this mess, "NOT" or we wake up and have a revolution. Getting Sick of their sheep acting messing with Liberals in the same way the NAZIES did the Jews. Yeah!!! Dumb idiots seem to believe if your unemployed or on welfare your lazy. OK!!! Then the economy is doing fine with them, and Obama is doing his JOB then. DUMB ASS'S
I hope the Republicans win BIG time in 2012. We had 9/11 under their watch time, maybe we will have the next American revolution under their watch. NO wonder Bush signed the Patriot Act. He knew one day people will wake up to their Shit. Obama might do better if he had a congress that worked with him and not against him. This dept ceiling deal played well for the GOP perfect Game Plan.
@MegaELECTRICEYE...its B'z up C'z down...all day homie!! Suwoop Gang in the building...Braaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt!!...that's on blood homie...Bang Bang Blood Gang all day Nigga!!
You don't have a Congressman a senator or police department because they all belong to the rich elite police puts our young men and women in jail to support the prison industrial Corporation they use our armies to plunder the world we haven't fought for freedom since World War II we only have mercenaries now that's why no one is concerned about dead soldiers the rich do not care about young men they will kill them for profit
The overwhelming screams of the American people, I can hear on the other side of the border, about government debt is they don't want to pay it, don't want it higher
it's been pretty clear all along the only people who do want it higher just want to spend someone else's money but not their own.
@ ForTheRepuvl1c Yes the wealthy did get us into this mess. Bad lending practices by the banks and Wall Streets willingness to gamble on anything with a pulse and their runaway greed brought the economy down and they will do it again because they can! Close the tax loopholes and do away with corporate "entitlements". It doesn't matter if their tax rate is 90%, if they don't have to pay it!
I'm pretty sure that most constitutional scholars have said that the president using the 14th Amendment in this situation is unconstitutional...Section 5. The CONGRESS (not the president) shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. I'm just sayin...
I don't understand how the US defaulting on loans would not allow the payent of veteran's benefits, Social Security, defense, etc. I think that the people who would not get money would be the people holding the notes. Is Bernie Sanders a little bit full of shit? ....maybe
@rolling26r1 The purpose of the debt ceiling is to pay the bills Congress already agreed to, not future bills. SS, Vet benefits and such are part of the "agreed to pay".
@myoung2484 Most of these entitlement expenditures are part of the tax-deal. Even the most self-centered should understand this: "I pay taxes, so when i get old i'll have social security". "I pay taxes, so my children can go to college." "I pay taxes, so that if i one day get sick, i'll be able to afford the care i need."
@freedomthrough Medicare, SS and Vet benefits are NOT entitlements. For Medicare and SS, WE PAID INTO THOSE, with our money. So I don't see where you get the entitlement expenditure from. I am a war veteran myself, so people who signed up and served their country with their lives like I did EARNED THOSE benefits. The Repubs were wrong in their assessment of entitlement, and the Dems were too weak to stand up to them. Turns my stomach, really.
@myoung2484 Which is my point exactly. It's a deal between the people and the government. You signed up with your life as input, even, which is the most loyal act from a citizen to a government. You more than deserve these benefits. Government needs to honor it's deals and repay loyalty. That's what i mean and that's what upsets me with what's going on.
it's a very sad time in America.. i can't understand why so many people go along with policies that hurt them. The tea party is disgusting and for the first time i'm embarrassed to be an american. i think north korea and iran are better than we are
Have you not been paying attention? Apparently not. It's the wealthy that have sucked this economy dry and that are keeping the politicians payed off so that they can keep doing it. The wealthy pay hardly any taxes because of republicans and loopholes that Obama said he wanted to close so that they would be paying their taxes.
thats like saying, you live in a house and you are only responsible for your room being clean. but the rest of the house can be filthy, dirty and unsanitary. well if there is an inspection, and 4 out of 5 rooms are dirty, guess what... the WHOLE house is being fumigated. not the selected only.
and what we have here is the "clean" room buying out the company who fumigates to protect their room. NOT FAIR. if one falls WE ALL FALL.
@catrina10 "and what we have here is the "clean" room buying out the company who fumigates to protect their room. NOT FAIR. if one falls WE ALL FALL."
Reality doesn't work that way. All exist in pure isolation, we can firewall and we do. We are not all in the same house nor is it ever true to pretend we do.
If one falls the rest stand & survive. WE never all fall at once. Ever.
@ForTheRepubl1c thats not the point. if they are able to make billions in profits, a few thousand dollars in cuts to their check each year WILL NOT hurt their pocket. they wont even know they are being cut. It's GREED. and if you are an amaerican, then you should WANT to do everything you can to help the future of your country.
@ForTheRepubl1c "Why should the rich be paying any more than me or you.
Did they get us into this mess ?"
Yes, they did.
Ever hear of a credit default swap? How about a derivative? How about short selling? They sold debt like it was money in the bank and then took out a bet that it would be worthless.
They aren't "job creators". They're what we used to call with contempt, "The Idle Rich".
BTW: "Job creators" is now a drinking game. Every time a Republican says it - take a shot.
@ForTheRepubl1c "did you ever spend even 1 day in a school ? Just one ???"
Did you ever deal in reality rather than theory?
Newsflash: I was a REAL "job creator". My company made fiberglass fishing and speed boats back in the days when people thought about water skiing on the weekends instead of worrying that their job could be outsourced.
@jfisher4 Your right, with corporate profits at an all time high and tax cuts in place. It would be their best interest not to hire because it would cut into profits. As a matter of fact it would be their advantage to layoff. Republican sheep look at the profits they make but not the Jobs created. They are clueless or just delusional.
The economy will grow, when we wake up and realize that the Tax breaks for the wealthy will not create AMERICAN jobs. The way to lower the unemployment rate is to realize that DEMAND is the true job creator, not the wealthy. Reduce the tax rate for everyone Btwn, $20- $250,000 to 10% and above it raise the rate to pre Reagan years and the middle class will create the demand, (Buying shit,) and this will lower the unemployment rate, leading to more payroll taxes filling the cougher's.
Republican$ voted 7 times to raise the DEBT CEILING under Bush JR. & 18 TIMES under REAGAN. BUSH JR. put us in not 1 but 2 MONEY LAUNDERING WARS. Their GOAL is NOT to balance the budget BUT to keep Obama from getting re-elected. What is DISTURBING is the extent they are willing to go. If the USA defaults the economy will essentailly come to a halt. It's predicted that 1/2 MILLION ADDITIONAL JOBS WILL THEN BE LOST. WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING IS NOT ONLY CRIMINAL BUT TREASONOUS.
@poindexterwitkowsky Your right and most of with a brain that has memory know that. This deal was GOP game plan to force the Obama and the democrats to accept the bill they wrote. IT worked out real well, and damn shame stupid republicans don't understand we pay into Socrity, Medicare, Medicade. But in their view the government should have that instead. WE ARE SCREWED!!! LET THE GOP WIN IT ALL. The House of cards are about to fall now. Let it fall under their watch time.
And ALL these treasonous bastards can't even figure how to run this country. Bail outs, mortgage fraud, the Fed Reserve FRAUD, and the LIES of the 'debt ceiling". How dare they. This country is SCREWED and they keep pretending that devaluing the dollar and using band aid fixes.
And meanwhile we have hawks on BOTH SIDES which want constant war for bullshit reasons.
All I hear from Democrats And Republicans using their brand of FEAR to promote their agendas, while holding the "debt" hostage.
ATTENTION AMERICA: We are ALREADY in massive debt, insolvent, defaulted. How MANY times can we raise the debt ceiling? How many more years can we just charge everything to the credit card? What generation is going to have to pay the debt BERNIE?
Bernie cares so much about 'people' yet doesn't think of this? "Full faith and credit"?
The U.S. *pretend government* is a CORPORATION with over 180,000 "gov/dept" CORPORATIONS that have CAFR reports and DUN&BRAD STREET ratings....that show it is the majority share holder of the crony-FORTUNE500.
There is nothing America, we the people, or Constitutional rule of law, about D.C.
William Goldman wrote: 'The bottom is loaded with nice people. Only cream and bastards rise." Bernie is an all too rare dab of cream awash in a sea of bastards.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776.
"Standard & Poor’s reiterated that a $4 trillion deficit cut would be a “good down payment” toward stabilizing U.S. finances, according to John Chambers, chairman of the company’s sovereign rating committee... A grand bargain of that nature would signal the seriousness of policy makers to address the fiscal situation in the U.S.”
Taxes? No. CUTS. Why? Because they know how to use a CALCULATOR.
@evandonghue2 I am poor, but my boss prolly has to shuffle through about $250k. I know he doesn't take home that much at all, but a tax increase right now would probably end up in reducing hours somewhere unless business picked up. But, I don't see that happening. :P
@goodbyetroll I know, bernie is talking about raising my boss's income tax>? Doesn't he understand that doing that will only hurt me>? Sure my boss can afford to pay more in tax, but what libtards fail to understand is, that if you gave my boss the choice, he would offer me more work instead of paying obama to remake the world in america's image_
Right because my username equates to painting everyone from a particular ideology as being retarded. I'm not insulting anyone with my username and people who actually know what it's from, love it. So I excuse your ignorance in this matter.
It's sad when people can't refrain from such childish labels..this country has become more divided then it ever has and it only serves to hurt us more.
@goodbyetroll exactly why this "fair" taxation bullshit the Dems are pushing is a frigging joke. Its not going to fix the problem !!!! We need CUTS not class warfare rhetoric if we as a country are to remain solvent.
But speaking of cuts, the Bush tax cuts, if left standing, will generate $7 trillion in deficits between 2009-19:
bit. ly/iF3qk7
Also, for all you folks so worried about our debt... Why? We're still able to borrow at very low rates. Our debt/GDP in the 40s was higher than it is now. And look at Japan: it has debt/GDP of over 200%, yet it's hardly collapsing. In fact it has no problem borrowing.
@jstncbllr Borrow = debt = inflation . Those created 0's aren't going to stay on the FED's balance sheet forever you GOTTA know that . What are we as a country going to do when we have to completely monetize the debt because due to artificially low interest rates the rate of return isn't worth the risk to foreign creditors ? What then ? That's Zimbabwe time . Loaf of bread 2 trillion dollars .
Right, well, obviously I won't claim that the US can engage in infinite spending. But we aren't at a crisis point right now. (The whole "ceiling" thing is a self-imposed crisis, clearly.)
I'm all for creating jobs, stopping wars, dropping the Bush cuts for top 2%. We absolutely need to address these things.
However, austerity measures during a period of economic contraction and private sector de-leveraging is just stupid. Ask Ireland.
@jstncbllr Granted, to a point. My concern is that our government will never have the political will to adhere to sound financial principles. When do we start being financially responsible? When our debt is 21 trillion dollars and 60 cents of every dollar goes to debt service? 70 cents? The problem is its a logarithmic equation. it accelerates. It would seem to me that some pain now is infinitely preferable to the possible pain we would sustain later.
@jstncbllr - "austerity measures during a period of economic contraction" - Well you need to talk to the government about that because last I heard they're still trying to paint a happy face on the current "recovery" which I find laughable. Without a fundamental change in the way we run our country, I don't see an end to our economic contraction.
@jstncbllr Also, there is no way to calculate the benefits to job creation due to the Bush tax cuts. I would also say that increased government involvement in the private sector is/was the catalyst for exportation of employment opportunities. What will we do when interest rates rise ? And they will eventually they'll have to. The debt would quickly become unserviceable .
@evandonghue2 I fail to see how one has to do with the other. Yes people will suffer. At this point its becoming time to triage. Were going broke man. You would rather go broke trying to save everyone ( some that don't give one whit that you made the effort ) and sleep untroubled ? Let the entire country go up in flames so you have a more positive sense of self ? wow - No thanks.
@evandonghue2 Sorry man I don't mean to be a dick - Triage is ruthless - But were at a point now where it's pretty much our only option. Cut deep and hard now to pull our nuts out of the fire or inflate away our debt and destroy our currency and default through inflation. Its a shitty deal man. Our politicians fucked us by giving everyone everything they wanted to ensure reelection. Now were in a box with no easy way out.
You really don't get it....The problem is demand not the spending. You need to invest to create demand. For example...Lets take Apple, which about 14 years ago was close to going bankrupt and most critics said they would. Steve Jobs came back to to head the company. He then SPENT money that they really didn't have, to invest in new technology's that created a DEMAND for their products. The middle class bought there products that pushed the company's growth which fueled job growth.
@Jascias "The problem is demand not the spending."
Ok, lets say your right_ What demand does the government create by spending money>? Demand for war>? Government does not create products, it creates debt and war_
Im a person of principle_ Theft/imperialism/war are immoral, no matter what suit you have on or what color your skin or what sorority or political party you join_ You are caught in the old paradigm of left/right_ I have moved on to the more apt paradigm of statist/anti-statist_ This is a debate fit for human evolution which is occurring in the 21st century_
@evandonghue2 "What demand does the government create by spending...war?"
There is good spending and bad spending to be sure. But it's not like all public spending is bad and all private spending is good.
The gov't should serve the market by insuring a stable economy and providing public goods, infrastructure and the like. If the elected representatives are failing to do this, then you should vote them out.
But you don't burn down your crops to save on your water bill. Not all spending is bad.
This coming from the guy that has never heard of the austrian school of economics_ I hope you have the intellectual curiosity to research your opposition_ It would at least help you formulate more effective arguments_
@evandonghue2 Deflecting back at me with insults doesn't work on me. It just shows you have no clue. Please feel free to continue with you're rant. I won't stop you.
@Jascias The problem is if you increase regulation and increase taxes you make it unprofitable for a company to expand its business through reinvestment. Apple is a prime example of a free market working properly. Create an ingenious product, utilize prudent and intelligent marketing strategies, and outperform your competition. What we have now is government chosen winners and losers. We no longer have a free market. Hence why our job growth is in the dumper.
If you think they need more revenue to fix the out-of-control spending problem, you are completely brainwashed. They're just gonna use it to wage more war. “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.” -Thomas Jefferson
@goodbyetroll No one stated you need more revenue to fix out of control spending. What was said that everyone needs to help out. All americans need to pay there fair share. Freedom is not free. We need to invest back into america. Roads and bridges need fixing. How do you think people are suppose to go to work, if we can't get there?
@Jascias infrastructure could easily be handled with current tax revenue if we stopped empire building, ended foreign aid, revamped entitlements, and the government stopped putting their hands in every aspect of business and allowed the free market to function properly. Im not a wealthy guy but I understand if a "rich" guy is paying 50%+ of his income in taxes hes ...... already paying his "fair" share?
@Jascias So you're saying they need more revenue to fix the problem of out-of-control spending? Oh, but you're calling it "everyone paying their fair share" so it's supposed to feel better? Rhetorical statements are rhetorical.
@goodbyetroll Maybe you should have talked to bush first about his problem of out of control spending. We had a surplus when he took office...and was in a recession when he left. I never said any thing about needing revenues to fix the problem. Don't take things out of context to support you're condescending remarks.
I said you have to invest in america to fix the problem. I also said every american poor, young, old, and rich need to help in that goal.
@Jascias The American people didn't elect Obama to do the same things Bush did.... Explain to me "investing in America" because it just sounds like a Mitt Romney slogan. The government CANNOT and has proven to FAIL at creating jobs. The best way they can invest in the American people (the only real asset this country has. that government is nothing without us.) is to make itself smaller so the people will have more of the wealth the government is consuming.
@Jascias "Then you go on this rant that makes no sense."
Your confusion is understandable, after all you probably accepted government loans to attend government college institutions that taught you how natural and loving your subjugation is_ How stealing half a nations wealth is the only sane way to protect the other half_ Do yourself a favor, if you ever want to be wealthy in both principle and money go to mises(dot)org_
A fundamentalist belief in the Free Market Fairy doesn't make for good public policy. The market alone is simply not *sufficient*. There actually is such a thing as "society", as much as hyper-individualistic Ayn Rand types rail against the concept.
Austrian econ was interesting 75 years ago. It hasn't really advanced since. Now it's more like a quasi-religion.
@jstncbllr " It hasn't really advanced since. Now it's more like a quasi-religion."
You level no real critic of the austrian school, just tired cliches_ The principles of self ownership and non aggression really don't need to advance, they need to be advanced to every part society_
@Jascias "Maybe you should have talked to bush first about his problem..."
I lost his number_ The point of libertarian philosophy is that all government has too much power, they are disconnected, they pander to our problems while offering solutions that are worse than the problems they claim to remedy_ bush/obama agree on all important issues, government intervention overseas and in economies_
Way to distort more. Business owner and the rich making over $250,000 are not the job creators. The middle class in this country are the real job creators. Two-thirds of our economy is driven by consumption. That comsumption is not done by the top 2% rich. It's done my the vast middle class. Businesses exist to create a profit. You have to make businesses hire by creating demand for their goods and services. We have a demand problem in our economy, NOT A SPENDING PROBLEM.
@Jascias "Business owner and the rich making over $250,000 are not the job creators."
What about companies with salaries over $250,000>? Don't these companies have to have more than $250,000 to give a wage of $250,000... yes_ Of course you need lots more than to cover the wage, there is unemployment ins and liability coverage for injuries on the job_ Face it, wealthy people are the job creators_ Wow, I can't believe that has to be explained here>!
Ok, I cite my facts_ If my economic perspective is foreign to you, it is understandable_ For a long time now the economic views that I hold true have been dashed by mainstream government economists that control much of academia and the media_ The big problem for them is we are right, we predicted the crashes and many of us are building wealth even in tough times_ If you care to research austrian economics check out mises(dot)org_
@Jascias " Its obvious you don't understand economics."
That is the core of my economic philosophy_ I believe in the spontaneous order of the market because no individual could possibly understand how complex the processes that we all take for granted every day_ Think of how many 1,000s of people it took just to make a burrito_ Yeah, I don't understand it_ But I do understand what works and that is people being free to trade peacefully_
Yes, and that is a good thing_ Because if a business did not profit, they would not create the sustainable jobs high skilled workers want_ See, the government does not profit and that is why no government job can last indefinitely_
We have to look at entitlements through the lens of opportunity cost_ Remember, the state and the private sector compete for the same investment capital_ The more the government borrows the less there is for capital investments to improve productivity and create jobs in the real engine of the economy/jobs, the private sector_ The best way to improve the economy is for government to spend less_ The depression of 1921 is an example of this idea succeeding in spurring the economic boom of the 20s_
@evandonghue2 "Interest rates are not controlled by the market"
OK so the Fed sets rates. So what? Your point was that there was "crowding out". For there to be crowding out, public spending would need to cause higher rates such that private investors were disinclined to borrow right? But my point was that since rates are low, for whatever reason, there is not crowding out.
@jstncbllr Thats nice man...but I can't have a conversation with one who just makes things up....Please continue on trying to force your will on to others, even through it will never work. You have no clue...That is all.
@Jascias "It turns out that nearly half of all Americans don't have to pay any federal income tax. In 2009, 47 percent of all filers paid nothing. It's a number that's gone up significantly in just a couple of years. Robert Siegel talks to Roberton Williams, who's been crunching the numbers at the Tax Policy Institute in Washington. According to Williams, millions escape filing because their incomes are too low or they're eligible for deductions, credits and exemptions."
@jstncbllr "There is good spending and bad spending..."
How intellectual of you_bernie and the out of control federal government want to borrow more money_ Isn't 14 trillion enough>? The annual GDP is 14 trillion as well_ This signals a tipping point, and if they borrow any more monetary collapse is inevitable_ Sure, you will have your beloved SS checks but they'll buy about half of what they did the year before_ At least you will have cheap rent in a molding stucco box, built by illegals_
Listen, can we agree that finance capital is finite>? Ok, then no matter what my point holds true, because if the government borrows more by definition there is less money for private sector_
Interest rates are the key indicator for the economy_ If rates are high, that means there is not enough supply of savings to borrow form_ If rates are low that means there is lots of savings_ When the government dictates rates people have no idea WTH is going on_ And eventually you have monetary collapse_
@Jascias - Entitlements need a revamp - Its simple numbers. Its insolvent. That being said there are many other areas in government expenditures that could withstand a haircut before entitlements.
@xtop23 "Entitlements need a revamp - Its simple numbers"
What numbers are you looking at?
The *dedicated revenue stream* for SSI has produced a surplus large enough to pay full benefits for 20-30 years.
The "problem" with Medicare is due to rising health care costs. This affects both private and public health insurance plans. Indeed, Medicare itself is very efficient. The problem is that profiteering drug companies, hospitals, and private insurers charge too much for not very good care.
@jstncbllr "Upon attaining eligibility for Medicare and retirement in 2011, they would have paid in $114,000 in Medicare payroll taxes total. But their expected average medical services, including prescriptions are expected to cost $355,000, about three times what they paid in."
@evandonghue2 "why does the government want to mandate this failed system [private health care]"
Hey, I'm with you, I'd rather have a public universal system like many civilized countries. A mix of public/private providers would be fine. But we need to shift the focus to good health outcomes and not on inefficient profiteering. Get rid of the private insurance leeches.
@jstncbllr "I'd rather have a public universal system"
I support your right to have what ever healthcare system you want_ Do you support my right to "opt out" of this system>? Do you support the rights of doctors to choose to not be part of government healthcare>?
@jstncbllr The numbers that say we have the money necessary to keep SSI solvent are based on inflated GDP >4% ( we had 0.4% last quarter ), 5% unemployment, doesnt account accurately for the baby boomer generation, 0% interest rates from the FED, and a relatively stable currency. Meaning...... its insolvent because those are numbers manufactured in a drug induced hallucination.
@xtop23 "based on inflated GDP >4%...[SSI] is insolvent because those are numbers manufactured"
4%? I very much doubt that's the right number.
I think you're being selectively cynical. Projections are always wrong to some degree, but SSI actuaries tend be pretty conservative.
Sure, if the tea bags get their way, and over the next 4 years destroy the economy in order to prove that government doesn't work, then SSI will be is worse shape. But so will everything.
SS steals my money and is projected, by your source, to not have any Fing money by the time I retire>! Can't get much worse shape for me_ Do you support my right to opt out of SS>? Or do you support the use of violence against me to pay for this ponzi scheme held together with mass societal cohesion>?
@jstncbllr Feel free to look it up - Look up Obama's first budget proposal - The numbers really are hilarious. Those figures are the same as the ones used to project solvency of SSI - As far as the economy..... if you believe the government released ( and CONSTANTLY revalued ) numbers were hanging in there but if you use the "old" ( read correct and not baked in ) calculating methods were already in a near depression.
@jstncbllr I have a question for you. Why do you think healthcare is so expensive ? And dont give me that drivel the government always throws out there about "speculators" , "the weather", or some sort of Fukushima drive-by.
Simplistically put, Inefficiency. Our fee-for-service model incentivizes hospitals to do do expensive, unneeded procedures. Insurance companies create high overhead (heavy bureaucracy and profiteering) but add little value. Drug companies gouge us.
The focus is not on using a reasonable amount of money to achieve the best health outcomes. It's on making CEOs rich.
@jstncbllr Certainly there are a multitude of factors. No answer in today's society is a straight line. That being said, you didn't mention the fact that due to government involvement restricting payment of Medicare/Medicaid/SSI etc and regulation by government on duty to treat statutes causes hospitals and healthcare providers to gouge the "insured" to keep them solvent?
@xtop23 I agree that health care is complex. But really it's a stretch to blame Medicare primarily runaway costs.
The fact is most 1st world countries have better systems by far than we do (in terms of life expectancy, cost, etc), and in most of them the public plays a large role, whether in be in insurance, regulation or actual provision of service.
So, to contend that we just need to get gov't out of the way flies in the face of empiricism.
@jstncbllr "So, to contend that we just need to get gov't out of the way flies in the face of empiricism."
Those loving government healthcare monopolies in france and england are buckling under their own weight_ canada has already greatly cut healthcare just to stay afloat_
@jstncbllr "The fact is most 1st world countries have better systems by far than we do..."
Debatable and borring_ Of course you can have a great system on borrowed money_ Point is, what happens when you run out of other people's borrowed money>?
@jstncbllr IF, and thats a big if, a socialist option were available and it was financially viable, contained none of the ear marks that were rampant in Obamacare, and was completely optional to the public I would have no problem. But to forcibly make American citizens engage in "commerce" I find unacceptable and in fact constitutionally offensive.
@xtop23 "forcibly make Americans engage [in private insurance]... unacceptable "
I have some sympathy for that point of view. I was pretty disappointed too. Though there were a few good things in the health reform bill... it's still got issues.
I wish Obama and the dems (most of them anyway) would push for *actual* left-wing policies, instead of just being the "less bat-shit" of the two corporate parties.
It's all about the left/right paradigm...They both enslave us through "Crony Capitalism!! END THE FED...THE TREASONOUS SCOUNDRELS WHO HAVE CONTINUED THE 'BIG LIE'!!!
By what method does the government claim to know what the fiscal health of a failing program will look like in 25 years>? How can anyone take that as fact>?
"The Government Accountability Office lists Medicare as a "high-risk" government program in need of reform, in part because of its vulnerability to fraud and partly because of its long-term financial problems.[62][63][64] Fewer than 5% of Medicare claims are audited.[65]"
@evandonghue2 What's your point dude. Nobody is arguing that it doesn't need reform.............That's fine. You just don't need to take the extreme route and destroy it. There is fraud in hospitals but you don't see people ending that.
@Jascias "You just don't need to take the extreme route and destroy it."
Medicare is destroying itself_ It does not need my help_ Once again, I defend your right to partake in any government system you want_ I simply would like to have the right to say "no" to social programs, and take care of my own retirement and healthcare, without being forced to pay for someone else's costs_
@Jascias "You just don't need to take the extreme route and destroy it. "
I think it is extreme to steal money from people_ Fact is, if medicare worked, you would not need the guns of the IRS and the threat of jail time to enforce payment for it_
Is it extreme to save for retirement, or pay for my own medical costs>? Is it extreme to reject the use of violence to pay for social programs>? Ad hominem fallacies will not help you to make your points more clear, it will only stunt your intellectual growth_
If the president can go to war without congressional approval, also with signing statements (obama promised to end) the president can add to any bill before signing_ And now bernie wants to end congresses role altogether by eliminating them from budgetary action and even debt limits>? Wow, at what point should we start calling the president a dictator or emperor>?
@Jascias The government takes in 200 billion a month_ SS, medicare, military checks/healthcare and interest on the debt amount to 20 billion a month_ Don't you think that the government should live within a 200 billion dollar a month budget>? Can't washington prioritize>? They do not need to borrow another dime_ Don't forget republicans have raised the debt ceiling too, this is non partisan_If washington continues to devour a all this capital it will mean less jobs, more war, and a weak economy_
@evandonghue2 Do I think that are government should live within its means? yes. But not on the back of the poor and elderly. We were on are way to paying off the debt, until bush got into office with tax breaks for ones that didn't need it, plus 2 wars. That is what started this debt problem and is the root cause.
What needs to happen is the rich who have gained much from this country to pay there fare share. Everyone poor and rich alike need to help.
@Jascias "But not on the back of the poor and elderly. "
Stop the straw man_ That is not my position_ I defend your right to welfare, I only ask for my right to say "no" to paying for it_ I also would never defend a single cut to any entitlement till america ends foreign aid and finally ends the empire_ Im not the GOP, just a logical thinking person that can do simple math_
@Jascias - Define "fair" share. The rich people in America pay actually pretty high amounts of their incomes in taxes. Example: in CA say they pay 35% Fed Income Tax. Then they pay an additional 15% CA State Taxes. Thats half ! Really thats not enough? Regardless if you tax them higher or not you are not going to balance the budget. Period. Cut military spending, end foreign wars, and foreign aid. That MIGHT actually work. This is just stupid class warfare BS.
@Jascias cont.- Here Bernie wants to give additional powers of totally disregarding the Congress and assume even more power in the Presidency. I think the POTUS has QUITE enough power already. We dont need a king TYVM.
Bernie, medicare is killing itself, it does not need the help of tea party people because it will eventually run into the problem created by a more logical force, math_ Basically, the average medicare recipient pays in to the system $144,000 over a lifetime of labor, while they receive $360,000 in benefits_ Doesn't take much brain power to figure out medicare will not continue as is_ If you care about these social programs ( I don't) you should consider reforming them before it's to late_
Bernie Sanders is the man!!!
Conquistador2112 12 hours ago
@Packerd01 So the library, the police force, the fire department, the military, the post office, the public schools, social security, medicare, medicade, federal lands are all evil communist plots? Please explain.
CaptainRidley 1 month ago
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MegaELECTRICEYE 4 months ago
One good man in a "Heartless" government. Thank you Bernie for standing up for us !! You are a true light in a very dark hole we have been thrown into
justjulie37 7 months ago
Fantastic!!!!
strathound 7 months ago
The GOP want Obama and Dems Out good. Then they better fix this mess, "NOT" or we wake up and have a revolution. Getting Sick of their sheep acting messing with Liberals in the same way the NAZIES did the Jews. Yeah!!! Dumb idiots seem to believe if your unemployed or on welfare your lazy. OK!!! Then the economy is doing fine with them, and Obama is doing his JOB then. DUMB ASS'S
MegaELECTRICEYE 7 months ago
I hope the Republicans win BIG time in 2012. We had 9/11 under their watch time, maybe we will have the next American revolution under their watch. NO wonder Bush signed the Patriot Act. He knew one day people will wake up to their Shit. Obama might do better if he had a congress that worked with him and not against him. This dept ceiling deal played well for the GOP perfect Game Plan.
MegaELECTRICEYE 7 months ago
@MegaELECTRICEYE and that's on Blood homie...B'z up!!! Suwoop gang all day nigga!
sakootakoo 7 months ago
@sakootakoo Still Stuck ON Stupid Redneck Trailor park Trash?? By the way I'm no nigga or Homie.
MegaELECTRICEYE 7 months ago
@MegaELECTRICEYE...its B'z up C'z down...all day homie!! Suwoop Gang in the building...Braaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt!!...that's on blood homie...Bang Bang Blood Gang all day Nigga!!
sakootakoo 7 months ago
BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT!
jfisher4 7 months ago 2
You don't have a Congressman a senator or police department because they all belong to the rich elite police puts our young men and women in jail to support the prison industrial Corporation they use our armies to plunder the world we haven't fought for freedom since World War II we only have mercenaries now that's why no one is concerned about dead soldiers the rich do not care about young men they will kill them for profit
KYKIN44 7 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
THE GOP IS THE PARTY OF DEATH ON ALL AMERICANS!!
LillyofParis 7 months ago
Bravo,,,you are a poet and I wish a published one.
conductorcise 7 months ago
overwhelming opposition from the American People?
Uh no.
The overwhelming screams of the American people, I can hear on the other side of the border, about government debt is they don't want to pay it, don't want it higher
it's been pretty clear all along the only people who do want it higher just want to spend someone else's money but not their own.
No one's a fan of that
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
[citation needed]
Falco98 7 months ago
Vote these old geezers out.
JebBlack2010 7 months ago
One of the few true Americans we have in Washington. If only we had Bernie in the White House instead of that spineless wonder Obama.
MAG315 7 months ago
Bernie 2012!
vercetti2021 7 months ago 4
Wow GO BERNIE!! ^_^ My hero.
nfinn42 7 months ago 3
@ ForTheRepuvl1c Yes the wealthy did get us into this mess. Bad lending practices by the banks and Wall Streets willingness to gamble on anything with a pulse and their runaway greed brought the economy down and they will do it again because they can! Close the tax loopholes and do away with corporate "entitlements". It doesn't matter if their tax rate is 90%, if they don't have to pay it!
arrowcat9 7 months ago
I'm pretty sure that most constitutional scholars have said that the president using the 14th Amendment in this situation is unconstitutional...Section 5. The CONGRESS (not the president) shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. I'm just sayin...
rolling26r1 7 months ago
I don't understand how the US defaulting on loans would not allow the payent of veteran's benefits, Social Security, defense, etc. I think that the people who would not get money would be the people holding the notes. Is Bernie Sanders a little bit full of shit? ....maybe
rolling26r1 7 months ago
@rolling26r1 The purpose of the debt ceiling is to pay the bills Congress already agreed to, not future bills. SS, Vet benefits and such are part of the "agreed to pay".
myoung2484 7 months ago
@myoung2484 Most of these entitlement expenditures are part of the tax-deal. Even the most self-centered should understand this: "I pay taxes, so when i get old i'll have social security". "I pay taxes, so my children can go to college." "I pay taxes, so that if i one day get sick, i'll be able to afford the care i need."
And these taxes have already been paid.
freedomthrough 7 months ago
@freedomthrough Medicare, SS and Vet benefits are NOT entitlements. For Medicare and SS, WE PAID INTO THOSE, with our money. So I don't see where you get the entitlement expenditure from. I am a war veteran myself, so people who signed up and served their country with their lives like I did EARNED THOSE benefits. The Repubs were wrong in their assessment of entitlement, and the Dems were too weak to stand up to them. Turns my stomach, really.
myoung2484 7 months ago
@myoung2484 Which is my point exactly. It's a deal between the people and the government. You signed up with your life as input, even, which is the most loyal act from a citizen to a government. You more than deserve these benefits. Government needs to honor it's deals and repay loyalty. That's what i mean and that's what upsets me with what's going on.
freedomthrough 7 months ago
it's a very sad time in America.. i can't understand why so many people go along with policies that hurt them. The tea party is disgusting and for the first time i'm embarrassed to be an american. i think north korea and iran are better than we are
oodaglom 7 months ago
@oodaglom i couldnt agree more :(
catrina10 7 months ago
Why should the rich be paying any more than me or you.
Did they get us into this mess ?
Then why do you expect them to get us out of it.
ForTheRepubl1c 7 months ago
@ForTheRepubl1c
Have you not been paying attention? Apparently not. It's the wealthy that have sucked this economy dry and that are keeping the politicians payed off so that they can keep doing it. The wealthy pay hardly any taxes because of republicans and loopholes that Obama said he wanted to close so that they would be paying their taxes.
whitetigerlily31 7 months ago 3
@ForTheRepubl1
thats like saying, you live in a house and you are only responsible for your room being clean. but the rest of the house can be filthy, dirty and unsanitary. well if there is an inspection, and 4 out of 5 rooms are dirty, guess what... the WHOLE house is being fumigated. not the selected only.
and what we have here is the "clean" room buying out the company who fumigates to protect their room. NOT FAIR. if one falls WE ALL FALL.
catrina10 7 months ago
@catrina10 "and what we have here is the "clean" room buying out the company who fumigates to protect their room. NOT FAIR. if one falls WE ALL FALL."
Reality doesn't work that way. All exist in pure isolation, we can firewall and we do. We are not all in the same house nor is it ever true to pretend we do.
If one falls the rest stand & survive. WE never all fall at once. Ever.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ForTheRepubl1c thats not the point. if they are able to make billions in profits, a few thousand dollars in cuts to their check each year WILL NOT hurt their pocket. they wont even know they are being cut. It's GREED. and if you are an amaerican, then you should WANT to do everything you can to help the future of your country.
catrina10 7 months ago
@ForTheRepubl1c "Why should the rich be paying any more than me or you.
Did they get us into this mess ?"
Yes, they did.
Ever hear of a credit default swap? How about a derivative? How about short selling? They sold debt like it was money in the bank and then took out a bet that it would be worthless.
They aren't "job creators". They're what we used to call with contempt, "The Idle Rich".
BTW: "Job creators" is now a drinking game. Every time a Republican says it - take a shot.
SpitfireOFatj 7 months ago 2
@SpitfireOFatj
did you ever spend even 1 day in a school ? Just one ???
ForTheRepubl1c 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ForTheRepubl1c "did you ever spend even 1 day in a school ? Just one ???"
Did you ever deal in reality rather than theory?
Newsflash: I was a REAL "job creator". My company made fiberglass fishing and speed boats back in the days when people thought about water skiing on the weekends instead of worrying that their job could be outsourced.
SpitfireOFatj 7 months ago
@SpitfireOFatj anyone who believes that mega corporations are interested in creating jobs is seriously delusional. excellent comment.
jfisher4 7 months ago
@jfisher4 Your right, with corporate profits at an all time high and tax cuts in place. It would be their best interest not to hire because it would cut into profits. As a matter of fact it would be their advantage to layoff. Republican sheep look at the profits they make but not the Jobs created. They are clueless or just delusional.
MegaELECTRICEYE 7 months ago
The economy will grow, when we wake up and realize that the Tax breaks for the wealthy will not create AMERICAN jobs. The way to lower the unemployment rate is to realize that DEMAND is the true job creator, not the wealthy. Reduce the tax rate for everyone Btwn, $20- $250,000 to 10% and above it raise the rate to pre Reagan years and the middle class will create the demand, (Buying shit,) and this will lower the unemployment rate, leading to more payroll taxes filling the cougher's.
glazierEd 7 months ago
Who are the 10 assholes that don't like this video? You really need to take a look at what is happening, then you need to go fall on a sword...
briangoredc 7 months ago 2
Republican$ voted 7 times to raise the DEBT CEILING under Bush JR. & 18 TIMES under REAGAN. BUSH JR. put us in not 1 but 2 MONEY LAUNDERING WARS. Their GOAL is NOT to balance the budget BUT to keep Obama from getting re-elected. What is DISTURBING is the extent they are willing to go. If the USA defaults the economy will essentailly come to a halt. It's predicted that 1/2 MILLION ADDITIONAL JOBS WILL THEN BE LOST. WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING IS NOT ONLY CRIMINAL BUT TREASONOUS.
poindexterwitkowsky 7 months ago 45
@poindexterwitkowsky
and nobama is no better than the republicans.
VOTE RON PAUL 2012.
jmjfanss 7 months ago
@poindexterwitkowsky Your right and most of with a brain that has memory know that. This deal was GOP game plan to force the Obama and the democrats to accept the bill they wrote. IT worked out real well, and damn shame stupid republicans don't understand we pay into Socrity, Medicare, Medicade. But in their view the government should have that instead. WE ARE SCREWED!!! LET THE GOP WIN IT ALL. The House of cards are about to fall now. Let it fall under their watch time.
MegaELECTRICEYE 7 months ago
@poindexterwitkowsky..and that's on Blood homie...B'z up!!! Suwoop gang all day nigga!
sakootakoo 7 months ago
Oh and RON PAUL 2012!!
Or else this country is done for good.
RandomShellAccount 7 months ago
And ALL these treasonous bastards can't even figure how to run this country. Bail outs, mortgage fraud, the Fed Reserve FRAUD, and the LIES of the 'debt ceiling". How dare they. This country is SCREWED and they keep pretending that devaluing the dollar and using band aid fixes.
And meanwhile we have hawks on BOTH SIDES which want constant war for bullshit reasons.
FUCK WASHINGTON!!
RandomShellAccount 7 months ago
All I hear from Democrats And Republicans using their brand of FEAR to promote their agendas, while holding the "debt" hostage.
ATTENTION AMERICA: We are ALREADY in massive debt, insolvent, defaulted. How MANY times can we raise the debt ceiling? How many more years can we just charge everything to the credit card? What generation is going to have to pay the debt BERNIE?
Bernie cares so much about 'people' yet doesn't think of this? "Full faith and credit"?
We HAVE NOTHING ANYMORE.
RandomShellAccount 7 months ago
I hope everyone who listens to Bernie SHARES this with others.
Facebook, email. Anything. If we don't succeed in spreading this to ALL of America, the Republicans will win & America will be screwed.
For the sake of all Americans (conservatives too) please share this.
Lightmane321 7 months ago
The U.S. *pretend government* is a CORPORATION with over 180,000 "gov/dept" CORPORATIONS that have CAFR reports and DUN&BRAD STREET ratings....that show it is the majority share holder of the crony-FORTUNE500.
There is nothing America, we the people, or Constitutional rule of law, about D.C.
IronRangeSurvival 7 months ago
@IronRangeSurvival "Bernie" knows this, and is just another TREASONOUS BASTARD who has sold America out to the Crony-CORP "globalist" *SSHOLES.
It's called controlled dissension...catch up.
IronRangeSurvival 7 months ago
William Goldman wrote: 'The bottom is loaded with nice people. Only cream and bastards rise." Bernie is an all too rare dab of cream awash in a sea of bastards.
t43700 7 months ago
He is a Jew. And when Jews speak they lie , and when they don't, they steal from you.
makov25 7 months ago
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams, August 1, 1776.
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
Our government is one big clusterfuck of greedy, corrupt thugs constantly shitting on the average American.
refuckulate420 7 months ago 24
Bloomberg:
"Standard & Poor’s reiterated that a $4 trillion deficit cut would be a “good down payment” toward stabilizing U.S. finances, according to John Chambers, chairman of the company’s sovereign rating committee... A grand bargain of that nature would signal the seriousness of policy makers to address the fiscal situation in the U.S.”
Taxes? No. CUTS. Why? Because they know how to use a CALCULATOR.
goodbyetroll 7 months ago 2
@goodbyetroll You know elementary math>? You must hate poor people_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 I am poor, but my boss prolly has to shuffle through about $250k. I know he doesn't take home that much at all, but a tax increase right now would probably end up in reducing hours somewhere unless business picked up. But, I don't see that happening. :P
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
@goodbyetroll I know, bernie is talking about raising my boss's income tax>? Doesn't he understand that doing that will only hurt me>? Sure my boss can afford to pay more in tax, but what libtards fail to understand is, that if you gave my boss the choice, he would offer me more work instead of paying obama to remake the world in america's image_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2
Libtards? Talk about a childish mentality...
refuckulate420 7 months ago
@refuckulate420 LMAO, and then you remembered your login name....
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
@goodbyetroll
Right because my username equates to painting everyone from a particular ideology as being retarded. I'm not insulting anyone with my username and people who actually know what it's from, love it. So I excuse your ignorance in this matter.
It's sad when people can't refrain from such childish labels..this country has become more divided then it ever has and it only serves to hurt us more.
refuckulate420 7 months ago
@goodbyetroll exactly why this "fair" taxation bullshit the Dems are pushing is a frigging joke. Its not going to fix the problem !!!! We need CUTS not class warfare rhetoric if we as a country are to remain solvent.
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 yup, and they're up there acting like children with void speeches begging for compromise, because they have no legitimate argument.
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
@xtop23 "We need CUTS"
No, we need JOBS! Employment is the best cure.
But speaking of cuts, the Bush tax cuts, if left standing, will generate $7 trillion in deficits between 2009-19:
bit. ly/iF3qk7
Also, for all you folks so worried about our debt... Why? We're still able to borrow at very low rates. Our debt/GDP in the 40s was higher than it is now. And look at Japan: it has debt/GDP of over 200%, yet it's hardly collapsing. In fact it has no problem borrowing.
You guys are Chicken Littles.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@jstncbllr Borrow = debt = inflation . Those created 0's aren't going to stay on the FED's balance sheet forever you GOTTA know that . What are we as a country going to do when we have to completely monetize the debt because due to artificially low interest rates the rate of return isn't worth the risk to foreign creditors ? What then ? That's Zimbabwe time . Loaf of bread 2 trillion dollars .
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 "Loaf of bread 2 trillion dollars"
Right, well, obviously I won't claim that the US can engage in infinite spending. But we aren't at a crisis point right now. (The whole "ceiling" thing is a self-imposed crisis, clearly.)
I'm all for creating jobs, stopping wars, dropping the Bush cuts for top 2%. We absolutely need to address these things.
However, austerity measures during a period of economic contraction and private sector de-leveraging is just stupid. Ask Ireland.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@jstncbllr Granted, to a point. My concern is that our government will never have the political will to adhere to sound financial principles. When do we start being financially responsible? When our debt is 21 trillion dollars and 60 cents of every dollar goes to debt service? 70 cents? The problem is its a logarithmic equation. it accelerates. It would seem to me that some pain now is infinitely preferable to the possible pain we would sustain later.
xtop23 7 months ago
@jstncbllr - "austerity measures during a period of economic contraction" - Well you need to talk to the government about that because last I heard they're still trying to paint a happy face on the current "recovery" which I find laughable. Without a fundamental change in the way we run our country, I don't see an end to our economic contraction.
xtop23 7 months ago
@jstncbllr Also, there is no way to calculate the benefits to job creation due to the Bush tax cuts. I would also say that increased government involvement in the private sector is/was the catalyst for exportation of employment opportunities. What will we do when interest rates rise ? And they will eventually they'll have to. The debt would quickly become unserviceable .
xtop23 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "But speaking of cuts, the Bush tax cuts, if left standing, will generate $7 trillion in deficits between 2009-19:"
Revenue increased after the bush tax cuts, as it did under reagan tax cuts, as it did under kennedy tax cuts_ Seeing a pattern>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "You guys are Chicken Littles."
Yet if obama is no granted trillions more in borrowed money, old people will die in the street_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 I fail to see how one has to do with the other. Yes people will suffer. At this point its becoming time to triage. Were going broke man. You would rather go broke trying to save everyone ( some that don't give one whit that you made the effort ) and sleep untroubled ? Let the entire country go up in flames so you have a more positive sense of self ? wow - No thanks.
xtop23 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 Sorry man I don't mean to be a dick - Triage is ruthless - But were at a point now where it's pretty much our only option. Cut deep and hard now to pull our nuts out of the fire or inflate away our debt and destroy our currency and default through inflation. Its a shitty deal man. Our politicians fucked us by giving everyone everything they wanted to ensure reelection. Now were in a box with no easy way out.
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 Im not arguing with anything your saying_ I support no government intervention into the economy_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@xtop23 "Our politicians fucked us by giving everyone everything they wanted to ensure reelection."
Naw, they gave the people scraps from their feast, but for some reason, it was just enough to appease the mindless rabble_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
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goodbyetroll 7 months ago
You really don't get it....The problem is demand not the spending. You need to invest to create demand. For example...Lets take Apple, which about 14 years ago was close to going bankrupt and most critics said they would. Steve Jobs came back to to head the company. He then SPENT money that they really didn't have, to invest in new technology's that created a DEMAND for their products. The middle class bought there products that pushed the company's growth which fueled job growth.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "The problem is demand not the spending."
Ok, lets say your right_ What demand does the government create by spending money>? Demand for war>? Government does not create products, it creates debt and war_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 War? Most of are debt from the wars was caused by bush.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias"War?"
Im a person of principle_ Theft/imperialism/war are immoral, no matter what suit you have on or what color your skin or what sorority or political party you join_ You are caught in the old paradigm of left/right_ I have moved on to the more apt paradigm of statist/anti-statist_ This is a debate fit for human evolution which is occurring in the 21st century_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 That's wonderful man. Please continue.
Jascias 7 months ago
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@evandonghue2 "What demand does the government create by spending...war?"
There is good spending and bad spending to be sure. But it's not like all public spending is bad and all private spending is good.
The gov't should serve the market by insuring a stable economy and providing public goods, infrastructure and the like. If the elected representatives are failing to do this, then you should vote them out.
But you don't burn down your crops to save on your water bill. Not all spending is bad.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@Jascias "You really don't get it..."
This coming from the guy that has never heard of the austrian school of economics_ I hope you have the intellectual curiosity to research your opposition_ It would at least help you formulate more effective arguments_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 Deflecting back at me with insults doesn't work on me. It just shows you have no clue. Please feel free to continue with you're rant. I won't stop you.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias The problem is if you increase regulation and increase taxes you make it unprofitable for a company to expand its business through reinvestment. Apple is a prime example of a free market working properly. Create an ingenious product, utilize prudent and intelligent marketing strategies, and outperform your competition. What we have now is government chosen winners and losers. We no longer have a free market. Hence why our job growth is in the dumper.
xtop23 7 months ago
4:49 Sanders lied. The Boehner bill doesn't cut ANYTHING. It only cuts proposed INCREASES to spending. Bernie is just asking for a collapse.
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
If you think they need more revenue to fix the out-of-control spending problem, you are completely brainwashed. They're just gonna use it to wage more war. “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.” -Thomas Jefferson
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
@goodbyetroll No one stated you need more revenue to fix out of control spending. What was said that everyone needs to help out. All americans need to pay there fair share. Freedom is not free. We need to invest back into america. Roads and bridges need fixing. How do you think people are suppose to go to work, if we can't get there?
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "All americans need to pay there fair share. "
Ok, so what about the 49% of americans that pay 0$ in tax>? What is their share>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
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Jascias 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@evandonghue2 Where did you get this from, fox news? I can make up stuff to, watch.
Ok. so what about the 49% of Hippos that didn't pay tax when they learned to fly? What is their share?
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias infrastructure could easily be handled with current tax revenue if we stopped empire building, ended foreign aid, revamped entitlements, and the government stopped putting their hands in every aspect of business and allowed the free market to function properly. Im not a wealthy guy but I understand if a "rich" guy is paying 50%+ of his income in taxes hes ...... already paying his "fair" share?
xtop23 7 months ago
@Jascias So you're saying they need more revenue to fix the problem of out-of-control spending? Oh, but you're calling it "everyone paying their fair share" so it's supposed to feel better? Rhetorical statements are rhetorical.
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
@goodbyetroll Maybe you should have talked to bush first about his problem of out of control spending. We had a surplus when he took office...and was in a recession when he left. I never said any thing about needing revenues to fix the problem. Don't take things out of context to support you're condescending remarks.
I said you have to invest in america to fix the problem. I also said every american poor, young, old, and rich need to help in that goal.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias The American people didn't elect Obama to do the same things Bush did.... Explain to me "investing in America" because it just sounds like a Mitt Romney slogan. The government CANNOT and has proven to FAIL at creating jobs. The best way they can invest in the American people (the only real asset this country has. that government is nothing without us.) is to make itself smaller so the people will have more of the wealth the government is consuming.
goodbyetroll 7 months ago
@goodbyetroll You asked me a question an I answered it...Then you go on this rant that makes no sense...soooooo good-bye-troll.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "Then you go on this rant that makes no sense."
Your confusion is understandable, after all you probably accepted government loans to attend government college institutions that taught you how natural and loving your subjugation is_ How stealing half a nations wealth is the only sane way to protect the other half_ Do yourself a favor, if you ever want to be wealthy in both principle and money go to mises(dot)org_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 "go to mises(dot)org"
A fundamentalist belief in the Free Market Fairy doesn't make for good public policy. The market alone is simply not *sufficient*. There actually is such a thing as "society", as much as hyper-individualistic Ayn Rand types rail against the concept.
Austrian econ was interesting 75 years ago. It hasn't really advanced since. Now it's more like a quasi-religion.
May I recommend MMF for a fresh perspective:
bit. ly/qMfhYK
jstncbllr 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jstncbllr " It hasn't really advanced since. Now it's more like a quasi-religion."
You level no real critic of the austrian school, just tired cliches_ The principles of self ownership and non aggression really don't need to advance, they need to be advanced to every part society_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias "Maybe you should have talked to bush first about his problem..."
I lost his number_ The point of libertarian philosophy is that all government has too much power, they are disconnected, they pander to our problems while offering solutions that are worse than the problems they claim to remedy_ bush/obama agree on all important issues, government intervention overseas and in economies_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
Way to distort more. Business owner and the rich making over $250,000 are not the job creators. The middle class in this country are the real job creators. Two-thirds of our economy is driven by consumption. That comsumption is not done by the top 2% rich. It's done my the vast middle class. Businesses exist to create a profit. You have to make businesses hire by creating demand for their goods and services. We have a demand problem in our economy, NOT A SPENDING PROBLEM.
Stop making things up
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "Business owner and the rich making over $250,000 are not the job creators."
What about companies with salaries over $250,000>? Don't these companies have to have more than $250,000 to give a wage of $250,000... yes_ Of course you need lots more than to cover the wage, there is unemployment ins and liability coverage for injuries on the job_ Face it, wealthy people are the job creators_ Wow, I can't believe that has to be explained here>!
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 Its obvious you don't understand economics. Stop making things up, just to sound like you know what you're talking about.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "Stop making things up..."
Ok, I cite my facts_ If my economic perspective is foreign to you, it is understandable_ For a long time now the economic views that I hold true have been dashed by mainstream government economists that control much of academia and the media_ The big problem for them is we are right, we predicted the crashes and many of us are building wealth even in tough times_ If you care to research austrian economics check out mises(dot)org_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias " Its obvious you don't understand economics."
That is the core of my economic philosophy_ I believe in the spontaneous order of the market because no individual could possibly understand how complex the processes that we all take for granted every day_ Think of how many 1,000s of people it took just to make a burrito_ Yeah, I don't understand it_ But I do understand what works and that is people being free to trade peacefully_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias "Businesses exist to create a profit."
Yes, and that is a good thing_ Because if a business did not profit, they would not create the sustainable jobs high skilled workers want_ See, the government does not profit and that is why no government job can last indefinitely_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
We have to look at entitlements through the lens of opportunity cost_ Remember, the state and the private sector compete for the same investment capital_ The more the government borrows the less there is for capital investments to improve productivity and create jobs in the real engine of the economy/jobs, the private sector_ The best way to improve the economy is for government to spend less_ The depression of 1921 is an example of this idea succeeding in spurring the economic boom of the 20s_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 "state and the private sector compete for the same investment capital"
We're in a demand slump. The private sector has been de-leveraging, and the nobody is spending money *because they don't have jobs*.
If you own a factory why would you invest capital in another factory or hire more employees if no one is buying the widgets you already built?
The "crowding out" effect is hogwash, especially @ 10% unemployment. Where are the high interest rates?
jstncbllr 7 months ago
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@jstncbllr " Where are the high interest rates?"
Interest rates are not controlled by the market_ They are dictated by government decree through the federal reserve_ This is why it is not hogwash_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 "Interest rates are not controlled by the market"
OK so the Fed sets rates. So what? Your point was that there was "crowding out". For there to be crowding out, public spending would need to cause higher rates such that private investors were disinclined to borrow right? But my point was that since rates are low, for whatever reason, there is not crowding out.
Non-sequitur much?
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@jstncbllr Thats nice man...but I can't have a conversation with one who just makes things up....Please continue on trying to force your will on to others, even through it will never work. You have no clue...That is all.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "It turns out that nearly half of all Americans don't have to pay any federal income tax. In 2009, 47 percent of all filers paid nothing. It's a number that's gone up significantly in just a couple of years. Robert Siegel talks to Roberton Williams, who's been crunching the numbers at the Tax Policy Institute in Washington. According to Williams, millions escape filing because their incomes are too low or they're eligible for deductions, credits and exemptions."
NPR (not fox)
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias Im only here to seek truth_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "There is good spending and bad spending..."
How intellectual of you_bernie and the out of control federal government want to borrow more money_ Isn't 14 trillion enough>? The annual GDP is 14 trillion as well_ This signals a tipping point, and if they borrow any more monetary collapse is inevitable_ Sure, you will have your beloved SS checks but they'll buy about half of what they did the year before_ At least you will have cheap rent in a molding stucco box, built by illegals_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "The "crowding out" effect is hogwash"
Listen, can we agree that finance capital is finite>? Ok, then no matter what my point holds true, because if the government borrows more by definition there is less money for private sector_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
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@jstncbllr "Where are the high interest rates?"
Interest rates are the key indicator for the economy_ If rates are high, that means there is not enough supply of savings to borrow form_ If rates are low that means there is lots of savings_ When the government dictates rates people have no idea WTH is going on_ And eventually you have monetary collapse_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias - Entitlements need a revamp - Its simple numbers. Its insolvent. That being said there are many other areas in government expenditures that could withstand a haircut before entitlements.
xtop23 7 months ago
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@xtop23 When did I say they don't?
Jascias 7 months ago
@xtop23 "Entitlements need a revamp - Its simple numbers"
What numbers are you looking at?
The *dedicated revenue stream* for SSI has produced a surplus large enough to pay full benefits for 20-30 years.
The "problem" with Medicare is due to rising health care costs. This affects both private and public health insurance plans. Indeed, Medicare itself is very efficient. The problem is that profiteering drug companies, hospitals, and private insurers charge too much for not very good care.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
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@jstncbllr "Upon attaining eligibility for Medicare and retirement in 2011, they would have paid in $114,000 in Medicare payroll taxes total. But their expected average medical services, including prescriptions are expected to cost $355,000, about three times what they paid in."
From: wikipedeia under Financial challenges
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "The problem is that profiteering drug companies, hospitals, and private insurers charge too much for not very good care."
Then why does the government want to mandate this failed system>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 "why does the government want to mandate this failed system [private health care]"
Hey, I'm with you, I'd rather have a public universal system like many civilized countries. A mix of public/private providers would be fine. But we need to shift the focus to good health outcomes and not on inefficient profiteering. Get rid of the private insurance leeches.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "I'd rather have a public universal system"
I support your right to have what ever healthcare system you want_ Do you support my right to "opt out" of this system>? Do you support the rights of doctors to choose to not be part of government healthcare>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr The numbers that say we have the money necessary to keep SSI solvent are based on inflated GDP >4% ( we had 0.4% last quarter ), 5% unemployment, doesnt account accurately for the baby boomer generation, 0% interest rates from the FED, and a relatively stable currency. Meaning...... its insolvent because those are numbers manufactured in a drug induced hallucination.
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 "based on inflated GDP >4%...[SSI] is insolvent because those are numbers manufactured"
4%? I very much doubt that's the right number.
I think you're being selectively cynical. Projections are always wrong to some degree, but SSI actuaries tend be pretty conservative.
Sure, if the tea bags get their way, and over the next 4 years destroy the economy in order to prove that government doesn't work, then SSI will be is worse shape. But so will everything.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
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@jstncbllr "4%? I very much doubt that's the right number."
Funny, you'll believe any government statistics shilled out to you to justify your illogical ideology_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
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@jstncbllr ""4%? I very much doubt that's the right number."" This from the guy that typed..."Medicare has a 2 trillion surplus until 2036."
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "SSI will be is worse shape."
SS steals my money and is projected, by your source, to not have any Fing money by the time I retire>! Can't get much worse shape for me_ Do you support my right to opt out of SS>? Or do you support the use of violence against me to pay for this ponzi scheme held together with mass societal cohesion>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr Feel free to look it up - Look up Obama's first budget proposal - The numbers really are hilarious. Those figures are the same as the ones used to project solvency of SSI - As far as the economy..... if you believe the government released ( and CONSTANTLY revalued ) numbers were hanging in there but if you use the "old" ( read correct and not baked in ) calculating methods were already in a near depression.
xtop23 7 months ago
@jstncbllr I have a question for you. Why do you think healthcare is so expensive ? And dont give me that drivel the government always throws out there about "speculators" , "the weather", or some sort of Fukushima drive-by.
xtop23 7 months ago
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@xtop23 "Why do you think healthcare is so expensive ? "
Are you expecting anything but drivel and class war cliches>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
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@evandonghue2 "Are you expecting anything but drivel and class war cliches"
I don't think I could spew any drivel more cliche than the phrase "class warfare".
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@xtop23 "Why [is] healthcare is so expensive?"
Simplistically put, Inefficiency. Our fee-for-service model incentivizes hospitals to do do expensive, unneeded procedures. Insurance companies create high overhead (heavy bureaucracy and profiteering) but add little value. Drug companies gouge us.
The focus is not on using a reasonable amount of money to achieve the best health outcomes. It's on making CEOs rich.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@jstncbllr Certainly there are a multitude of factors. No answer in today's society is a straight line. That being said, you didn't mention the fact that due to government involvement restricting payment of Medicare/Medicaid/SSI etc and regulation by government on duty to treat statutes causes hospitals and healthcare providers to gouge the "insured" to keep them solvent?
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 I agree that health care is complex. But really it's a stretch to blame Medicare primarily runaway costs.
The fact is most 1st world countries have better systems by far than we do (in terms of life expectancy, cost, etc), and in most of them the public plays a large role, whether in be in insurance, regulation or actual provision of service.
So, to contend that we just need to get gov't out of the way flies in the face of empiricism.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
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@jstncbllr "So, to contend that we just need to get gov't out of the way flies in the face of empiricism."
Those loving government healthcare monopolies in france and england are buckling under their own weight_ canada has already greatly cut healthcare just to stay afloat_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr "The fact is most 1st world countries have better systems by far than we do..."
Debatable and borring_ Of course you can have a great system on borrowed money_ Point is, what happens when you run out of other people's borrowed money>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@jstncbllr IF, and thats a big if, a socialist option were available and it was financially viable, contained none of the ear marks that were rampant in Obamacare, and was completely optional to the public I would have no problem. But to forcibly make American citizens engage in "commerce" I find unacceptable and in fact constitutionally offensive.
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 "forcibly make Americans engage [in private insurance]... unacceptable "
I have some sympathy for that point of view. I was pretty disappointed too. Though there were a few good things in the health reform bill... it's still got issues.
I wish Obama and the dems (most of them anyway) would push for *actual* left-wing policies, instead of just being the "less bat-shit" of the two corporate parties.
Gotta get the money of election financing.
jstncbllr 7 months ago
@jstncbllr
Nobama aka obama is a member of the council on foreign relations, wake up.
VOTE THEM ALL OUT!
jmjfanss 7 months ago
@jmjfanss is that including the Republicans?
MrParasitemeat 7 months ago
@MrParasitemeat
Both Parties.
jmjfanss 7 months ago
It's all about the left/right paradigm...They both enslave us through "Crony Capitalism!! END THE FED...THE TREASONOUS SCOUNDRELS WHO HAVE CONTINUED THE 'BIG LIE'!!!
watertonrivers 7 months ago
@watertonrivers exactly
xtop23 7 months ago
""Medicare has a 2 trillion surplus until 2036."
By what method does the government claim to know what the fiscal health of a failing program will look like in 25 years>? How can anyone take that as fact>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
"The Government Accountability Office lists Medicare as a "high-risk" government program in need of reform, in part because of its vulnerability to fraud and partly because of its long-term financial problems.[62][63][64] Fewer than 5% of Medicare claims are audited.[65]"
from: wikipedia under fraud
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 What's your point dude. Nobody is arguing that it doesn't need reform.............That's fine. You just don't need to take the extreme route and destroy it. There is fraud in hospitals but you don't see people ending that.
Jascias 7 months ago
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@Jascias "You just don't need to take the extreme route and destroy it."
Medicare is destroying itself_ It does not need my help_ Once again, I defend your right to partake in any government system you want_ I simply would like to have the right to say "no" to social programs, and take care of my own retirement and healthcare, without being forced to pay for someone else's costs_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
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@Jascias "You just don't need to take the extreme route and destroy it. "
I think it is extreme to steal money from people_ Fact is, if medicare worked, you would not need the guns of the IRS and the threat of jail time to enforce payment for it_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias " extreme route "
Is it extreme to save for retirement, or pay for my own medical costs>? Is it extreme to reject the use of violence to pay for social programs>? Ad hominem fallacies will not help you to make your points more clear, it will only stunt your intellectual growth_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
If the president can go to war without congressional approval, also with signing statements (obama promised to end) the president can add to any bill before signing_ And now bernie wants to end congresses role altogether by eliminating them from budgetary action and even debt limits>? Wow, at what point should we start calling the president a dictator or emperor>?
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 Wow...at what point shoud we start calling the GOP terrorist for holding the debt ceiling and the American people hostage?
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias The government takes in 200 billion a month_ SS, medicare, military checks/healthcare and interest on the debt amount to 20 billion a month_ Don't you think that the government should live within a 200 billion dollar a month budget>? Can't washington prioritize>? They do not need to borrow another dime_ Don't forget republicans have raised the debt ceiling too, this is non partisan_If washington continues to devour a all this capital it will mean less jobs, more war, and a weak economy_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@evandonghue2 Do I think that are government should live within its means? yes. But not on the back of the poor and elderly. We were on are way to paying off the debt, until bush got into office with tax breaks for ones that didn't need it, plus 2 wars. That is what started this debt problem and is the root cause.
What needs to happen is the rich who have gained much from this country to pay there fare share. Everyone poor and rich alike need to help.
Jascias 7 months ago
@Jascias "What needs to happen is the rich who have gained much from this country to pay there fare share."
49% of bottom earning americans pay 0$ in income tax_ That also includes obama's friends at GE_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias "But not on the back of the poor and elderly. "
Stop the straw man_ That is not my position_ I defend your right to welfare, I only ask for my right to say "no" to paying for it_ I also would never defend a single cut to any entitlement till america ends foreign aid and finally ends the empire_ Im not the GOP, just a logical thinking person that can do simple math_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias - Define "fair" share. The rich people in America pay actually pretty high amounts of their incomes in taxes. Example: in CA say they pay 35% Fed Income Tax. Then they pay an additional 15% CA State Taxes. Thats half ! Really thats not enough? Regardless if you tax them higher or not you are not going to balance the budget. Period. Cut military spending, end foreign wars, and foreign aid. That MIGHT actually work. This is just stupid class warfare BS.
xtop23 7 months ago
@xtop23 is bringing facts to the table, liberals, take note, go find some to back up ur biases_
evandonghue2 7 months ago
@Jascias cont.- Here Bernie wants to give additional powers of totally disregarding the Congress and assume even more power in the Presidency. I think the POTUS has QUITE enough power already. We dont need a king TYVM.
xtop23 7 months ago
Bernie, medicare is killing itself, it does not need the help of tea party people because it will eventually run into the problem created by a more logical force, math_ Basically, the average medicare recipient pays in to the system $144,000 over a lifetime of labor, while they receive $360,000 in benefits_ Doesn't take much brain power to figure out medicare will not continue as is_ If you care about these social programs ( I don't) you should consider reforming them before it's to late_
evandonghue2 7 months ago